Micro 842: Lynchpin 8p (Game Over)

[hawkleader3]

Hey guys! Just a quick hello and a bit about me. My last active game was probably around 2013-2014, and then I gave it up because stubborn old me didn't like reading all the time. I recently played Mafia with a few friends at a party, and I'm hooked again. Basically, I'm saying that I'm rusty, but I know how the rules work. Will get to reading soon and giving my input!

UNVOTE: Allomancer because I hardly know it!

[hawkleader3]

but still voting Dong.

Yeah, I decided to townread you and Gamma, moved to Dong, I'm now back to you and maybe Gamma but I'm lazy to move my vote backç. So what?

I don't think Creature meant to use the word lazy as much as unmotivated. I just thought it was funny how much people flipped out at this.

I'm town

He's correct

Now looking for a replacement for Not_Mafia.

Whoah whoah whoah whoah whoah

Hurry up and lynch so there's something I can actually comment on

No, now we wait your replacement.

I'm here, dude! College starts tomorrow for me, and this game is hella fast paced, but I can guarantee I'll be more on top of things than NM. I think I made the mistake of reading from page 1 to now instead of backwards because I got tired after page 20 or so. Right now I think Ruby is either scummy or isn't good at scumhunting. I'm not very good at just giving reads off everyone and making a long post about it, so if you guys have any questions about what my reads are about you and others, fire away!

VOTE: Ruby

[hawkleader3]

Oh good, a washout has come to save us!

For future reference, hawk, GW is a 4 headed hydra but 1 head bailed and the other is on V/LA. Leaving the reasonable Auro and... Lolwagon.

If you need to know me, look up "Almost50", okay?

- Khione

Hey chief! I haven't worked out in my head why it matters that someone is a hydra, so I'll just assume they're not hydras and one collective human unless it flaws my logic (Example: claiming HydraXYZ is flip flopping their vote from this to that).

Edit: I've read all of it. Relax bud, it's just a hunch right now. I'll have to read some ISOs.

Edit2: I'm saying pages 1-20 and the last 4 pages are so were read thoroughly, and the rest were skimmed from me (not on purpose, but from my attention span). If there's important quotes that lead to someone's vote on page 12 or 23 or whatever, I'm not choosing to ignore them. I just haven't read carefully enough.

[hawkleader3]

Oh, last four pages as well
Why didn’t you specify that hawk?

Yeah my bad. Didn't use my words properly. To quote, I said "I got tired after page 20 or so", I didn't mean that I got tired and stopped reading, I just meant I got tired so I didn't focus as much when reading the second half of the game up until I was getting close to the end because I know it's important to understand who's accusing who of scum currently.

[hawkleader3]

it's not

Why were you so quick to dismiss this point that Auro brought up? In Micro 841: Kids with Guns (link: viewtopic.php?f=83&t=78188), this is exactly what Not_Mafia did as scum. He voted for his scumbuddy (Apollo Khione) within the first few pages of the game, never moved his vote once, and consistently attacked/tunneled Apollo until he was lynched on day one. And as Auro pointed out, Not_Mafia has apparently death tunneled scumbuddies in some of his other scum games as well. So I think it's a relevant point with respect to reading his slot in this game.

In any case, Not_Mafia has now been replaced, and his replacement has entered the game voting for you because he feels that you are "either scummy or aren't good at scumhunting". He also has apparently only thoroughly read through the first 20 pages and the last 4 pages of the game and skimmed through the pages in between. So what do you make of Hawk[Not_Mafia]'s slot now?

- Volxen

How many times has Not_Mafia done this as scum, because I recall earlier in an argument with Creature that you can't draw conclusions on how someone plays based on at most three games.

Look, I work in research.

1. I don’t know how many games you have played but I could pick any 3 games out to push almost any narrative I wanted. I could probably find data that supported people with more than three vowels in their user handle were mafia. I’m not asking you to do an analysis of every game, because quite frankly it is unlikely to change my mind, but you don’t get to pick your sample and pretend it is good data.

Although I'm aware this is different because you're using previous games played to scumhunt instead of defending yourself, I want an explanation why you get to cherrypick games (if you did cherrypick them that is. I could be wrong).

[hawkleader3]

As a side note, Wednesdays for me are my busiest semester (I know it's an unfortunate coincidence because I just joined the game), but I have free time every day besides Wednesday.

[hawkleader3]

Hey guys! Just a quick hello and a bit about me. My last active game was probably around 2013-2014, and then I gave it up because stubborn old me didn't like reading all the time. I recently played Mafia with a few friends at a party, and I'm hooked again. Basically, I'm saying that I'm rusty, but I know how the rules work. Will get to reading soon and giving my input!

UNVOTE: Allomancer because I hardly know it!

I don't like your entrance much.

I didn't like your first couple of posts because they seemed unorganized, and instead of making one post with multiple quotes, you just decided to post 10 times in a row. Super bloated. That has nothing to do with you being town/mafia.

[hawkleader3]

@callforjudgement What happens in the event of a tie with plurality voting. The wiki says that the moderator decides the rules on that, but it's usually a no lynch

[hawkleader3]

Creature, between Ruby, Allomancer, and Dongempire, do you see any of those three being a good lynch over the other two? Or do you think it's safe to no lynch on day 1?

[hawkleader3]

Got it. So Dong gets lynched if we don't do anything. If Dong flips town, I think Ruby is scum (or at least I'm more sure of it).

[hawkleader3]

Or do you think it's safe to no lynch on day 1?

It's not possible to nolynch in this setup.

Yeah I just found that out. The plurality lynch wiki says the suggested tiebreaker is a no lynch. It's why I asked. Sorry.

Do you think they could be partnered with each other? Or do you believe that if one is scum, the other is town

[hawkleader3]

Interesting tidbit, Allo has voted for everyone at least once except for GW. This is kind of taken out of context because he did vote some people just for RVS.

[hawkleader3]

If ruby flips town, I'm definitely bringing Dong's "100% sure chance about being scum" into question

[hawkleader3]

whatevs, you guys are on your fucking own

not sure why i thought i could save this town

... I can't Fricken believe this. I just...

Why can't we be sensible for once? This game is literally going to be decided by Creature and Gamma's vote. Alright then.

Ruby, Gamma, Creature, this game is up to you then. This seems like a bad time, but Clem is hardballing in making me do all the talking. I'm losing my energy. So... The ball is in your court.

- Khione

Is there anything wrong with the game being decided by those players?

[hawkleader3]

I didn’t mean to include that first quote. Stupid mobile mafiascum

[hawkleader3]

VOTE: Apollo Khione
Going to sleep, just checking in to vote.
Also, its interesting that GW wasnt killed. I wagered they'd be the obvious target.

First you were 100% sure that Ruby was scum. Now you're saying that Ruby is the lynchpin. You can use the excuse before that you switched your vote because your vote on Ruby wasn't going to get him lynched and you wanted to move the game along, but voting for Apollo at the start of the second day? I don't like this at all, but there's not enough evidence for me to put a second vote on you because of what GW said. Speaking of what he said...

VOTE: Apollo Khione
Going to sleep, just checking in to vote.
Also, its interesting that GW wasnt killed. I wagered they'd be the obvious target.

Don’t say stuff like that, we gotta get through tomorrow too.

No more votes on anybody with one vote on them

As mafia can quickhammer. Obviously.

Gotta reread the thread with two townflips in mind.

This makes sense in theory, but playing this way could lead us to being too passive when it comes to accusing people who are scum. I will be hesitant to put someone at L-2, but we have a 50% chance of lynching someone to our advantage (whether that be mafia or the lynchpin. Don't forget about the lynchpin because I have to remind myself every once in a while). I feel like if the "No more votes on anybody with one vote on them" rule is in place, nobody will feel any pressure.


I'm also surprised GW wasn't killed. I have a gut feeling that he could be scum and playing this game extremely well, but it's nothing more than a feeling with no hard evidence to back it up.

[hawkleader3]

Apollo weren’t you going after the Hawk slot yesterday? Why come out an OMGUS Dong?

These were the only post I found about Apollo going after me

hawk smells
see you next prod
-clem

Not sure what this was about, but I ignored it. I probably shouldn't have though. I feel like he thinks I smelled because of the shit NM was doing, and I'm not here to justify the actions and decisions that I didn't make. I can try to, but I feel like I'd just be grasping. Only NM can answer those questions.

Allo cant be lynchpin. Just take off your horse goggles and look for a momemt, hiw much resistance was there for an allo wagon? It practically formed in a fortnight. I've been trying to get this ruby lynch for half a week. Who seems more likely to be lynchpin in this moment?
You'll be lynching town that has only wifom potential to be lynchpin, while ruby red meets all criteria for that. Wake up.

Take your own advice on the goggles. We're not looking for a lynchpin. We're looking for scum.

Your defense of them being new doesn't mean much either. Newness does not equal townie.

Clem left me 2 main pieces of advice: Trust in town Creature, and the hawk/NotMaf slot is bad. You also have been setting off alarm bells recently, Dong. Both you and hawk appear to be on Ruby, along with - of all people - Allomancer.

Your the odd man out here, Dong.

- Khione

This post does say that my slot is bad, but it also looks like he's going after Dong as well, and that's who he has voted for this round. I don't think this is OMGUS, GW. If there's any post that I missed of Apollo going after my slot (so me or Not_Mafia), please quote it.

[hawkleader3]

VOTE: The Great Wall after giving it some more thought and here's why (btw sorry for the triple post. I'm just sitting at my laptop thinking right now).

1. Creature was the only one to put some serious pressure on him, and he got killed N1
2. IIRC, he was the one who started the wagon against Allomancer who ended up flipping town
3. I've been thinking about who the lynchpin might be, and if GW doesn't flip scum, I think he could be the lynchpin because of the lack of pressure that's been applied to him all game (by town and scum). I really feel like he should've been killed N1 because of his scumhunting efforts.
4. It's only one vote on him. I'll unvote if someone quickly follows my lead as to prevent an early lynch.

[hawkleader3]

So, here's my thing. Dong doesn't work with Apollo, Ruby, and now Hawkeye, so he is probably town. The only person he works with is Gamma and I still think Gamma is town, which leaves me with Gamma/Dong as town. That leaves (Ruby/Apollo/Hawk) as lynchpin and two scum, which actually seems to make some sense.

I don't know how I feel about Gamma or Dong. I haven't read enough of Gamma's post to get a read on Dong, and I was pretty sure Dong was town until his most recent vote and change from Ruby being 100% scum to lynchpin.

However, I think Hawkeye is scum here.

I'm also surprised GW wasn't killed. I have a gut feeling that he could be scum and playing this game extremely well, but it's nothing more than a feeling with no hard evidence to back it up.

This feels like fomenting paranoia in town, after Dong mentions it Hawk feeds the fire without really taking direct responsibility for saying it (oh what a valid opinion you have Dong! I am going to agree with you but not take responsibility for the thought).

Are you talking about how Dong mentions you being scum? Because I don't remember reading that. As for riding Dong's coattails for his reasoning on why Ruby is scum, I don't know what to say other than I had the same thoughts that Ruby did, and I wanted to hear more out of him by applying more pressure to him. I'll take responsibility for the thought of Ruby being scum. If there's any post where I haven't, let me know.

I really really don't like that he answered for Apollo either. Possible lynchpin or scumbuddy.

VOTE: Hawkeye

p:edit LOL

Okay

Eh. I'm not going to wait for Apollo to respond before I throw my two cents in on the matter. If I'm town, what's your views on Apollo?

You went from gut feeling with no evidence to voting me in an hour?

I'll be able to sleep at night if I am wrong about this and lose the game because of it.

Gamma Emerald is a scum candidate.

Allomancer I think I've been townreading him too easily.

Dongempire posting a case is completely new for me. I'll need to check him again.

Ruby Red is a scum candidate.

Apollo Khione idk how to feel. Where's Clemency?

Not_Mafia is better left alone for *4p LyLo as long he's not the actual lynchpin.

I can call The Great Wall town, but in exchange I'll insult Thor's townplay until he actually starts doing stuff. Also it's somewhat the same as Not_Mafia.

This is the last post by Creature about his stance on us, ftr. We wouldn't have killed him there.

If Gamma was scum, it could be valid. It could also be a N1 kill to throw us off the trail, but that's the point where I start overthinking it and trying to outthink the mafia and just go in circles

[hawkleader3]

VOTE: Apollo Khione
Going to sleep, just checking in to vote.
Also, its interesting that GW wasnt killed. I wagered they'd be the obvious target.

First you were 100% sure that Ruby was scum. Now you're saying that Ruby is the lynchpin. You can use the excuse before that you switched your vote because your vote on Ruby wasn't going to get him lynched and you wanted to move the game along, but voting for Apollo at the start of the second day? I don't like this at all, but there's not enough evidence for me to put a second vote on you because of what GW said. Speaking of what he said...

VOTE: Apollo Khione
Going to sleep, just checking in to vote.

Also, its interesting that GW wasnt killed. I wagered they'd be the obvious target.

Don’t say stuff like that, we gotta get through tomorrow too.

No more votes on anybody with one vote on them

As mafia can quickhammer. Obviously.

Gotta reread the thread with two townflips in mind.

This makes sense in theory, but playing this way could lead us to being too passive when it comes to accusing people who are scum. I will be hesitant to put someone at L-2, but we have a 50% chance of lynching someone to our advantage (whether that be mafia or the lynchpin. Don't forget about the lynchpin because I have to remind myself every once in a while). I feel like if the "No more votes on anybody with one vote on them" rule is in place, nobody will feel any pressure.

I'm also surprised GW wasn't killed.

I have a gut feeling that he could be scum and playing this game extremely well, but it's nothing more than a feeling with no hard evidence to back it up.

I'm really supposed to buy your claim that you don't remember reading something you agreed with like a few hours ago?

My claim was that Dong never accused you of being scum. I didn't realize that him saying that it's interesting that you weren't killed meant that he accused you of being scum. I didn't read it that way, but I may be crazy

You don't have reads on two people out of 5, you are voting us for NK analysis that isn't even accurate, and you're claiming to not read things you've clearly read...and we haven't even had the thread open a day....

yeah no

I'll start looking into Gamma and Red Ruby if they start posting, or I'll start suspecting them even more if they continue to not post. If you're not mafia, can you make a case that you're potentially the lynchpin?

[hawkleader3]

Should I stay up for an extra hour or two for your post, or will you not be posting for a long while (4 hours plus). Also, Auro, were you the one posting during D2 or was that someone else?

[hawkleader3]

As to why we weren't the NK, there's an important other factor you're missing out - Wrong reads. I correctly trusted Red into removing the Creature vote, but in retrospect I think one of my {Dong, Ruby Red} townreads was probably wrong, and if scum's in them that's a good enough reason to keep us alive.

The cross-vote between Dong and AK also seems interesting, given how Dong was aggressively on to Red earlier. It feels... planned. I'm trying to evaluate if it could be SvS with the survivor reaping towncred and guiding a mislynch the next day, but I don't think it's TvT.

Dongempire seems to be the common denominator here, and I'm currently leaning towards him being scum.

~Auro

Well this is a bit different from Lolwagons' beliefs, but these more align with my beliefs. I felt like I had enough evidence to start pressuring you with my vote, and I don't like the way Lolwagons reacted to it at all. I'm conflicted, because I think Dong looks scummier than you, but I don't want to put him at L-2. I was probably premature with my vote because I just wanted some dialogue in this game to go down. I'm thirsty for a scum slip, so I started grasping. I'm too impatient! Lol

UNVOTE:

[hawkleader3]

[I haven't read enough of Gamma's post to get a read on Dong

Why do my posts impact your read on Dong?

I believe that may be a typo and was supposed to say that I haven't gotten enough posts from you to read you.

[hawkleader3]

Is lynching yourself if you think you’re the lynch pin bad play here?

Mathematically hitting scum is more likely so that feels right.

You have a 25% chance of being the lynchpin, but if you lynch someone else, the person you lynch has a 60% chance of benefiting the town. Not to mention if you lynch yourself and lose, isn't that game? Not sure how it would work if there's 2 town and 2 scum left, but I don't think the chances would be very high because I'm still not sure how the tiebreaker for votes works entirely. Don't do it.

[hawkleader3]

[I haven't read enough of Gamma's post to get a read on Dong

Why do my posts impact your read on Dong?

I believe that may be a typo and was supposed to say that I haven't gotten enough posts from you to read you.

Why do you “believe” it is that? Shouldn’t you be certain?

Because I don't usually make typos and I read my post twice before I send them. That's why I said I'm not sure. With lack of punctuation, sometimes the way I read it in my head before I typed it isn't matching up with the way the sentence sounds

[hawkleader3]

I just answered that goober use your P edit

look at this guy reading p-edits and not just clicking "submit" as fast as possible without reading through them

Hawk just got back into mafia and I don’t see him starting MyLo bussing, but also his Dong push doesn’t give him too much of an out. Also, he works way better with Apollo.

how would hawk be bussing dong here? am i missing something or did he just say that he doesn't even scumread him, he's just not sure

I still don’t think Gamma tries to modclear himself as town, and then right after that three people came down hard on him for trying, and tried to spin it as AI. It was a bad wagon and it seemed more like trying to nip a mod-error clear in the bud reflexively than actually being concerned about his alignment. Also I don’t think anyone ever explained why it was scummy, just that it was.

It was lowball play but idt it’s AI

had forgotten about that

i'm considering it tbh

Hawk said he would put Dong at L-2 like last page

Lazy and on mobile so you’ll have to Lewis and Clark your way through that

As to why we weren't the NK, there's an important other factor you're missing out - Wrong reads. I correctly trusted Red into removing the Creature vote, but in retrospect I think one of my {Dong, Ruby Red} townreads was probably wrong, and if scum's in them that's a good enough reason to keep us alive.

The cross-vote between Dong and AK also seems interesting, given how Dong was aggressively on to Red earlier. It feels... planned. I'm trying to evaluate if it could be SvS with the survivor reaping towncred and guiding a mislynch the next day, but I don't think it's TvT.

Dongempire seems to be the common denominator here, and I'm currently leaning towards him being scum.

~Auro

Well this is a bit different from Lolwagons' beliefs, but these more align with my beliefs. I felt like I had enough evidence to start pressuring you with my vote, and I don't like the way Lolwagons reacted to it at all.

I'm conflicted, because I think Dong looks scummier than you, but I don't want to put him at L-2.

I was probably premature with my vote because I just wanted some dialogue in this game to go down. I'm thirsty for a scum slip, so I started grasping. I'm too impatient! Lol

UNVOTE:

[hawkleader3]

I wish I would've edited that to get rid of the unnecessary text. Basically I'm trying to say that I specifically said that right now I'm not comfortable putting Dong at L-2

[hawkleader3]

There it is thanks Hawk

My pc is like fifteen feet away and I’m trying to die of heart failure spurned on by inactivity by 35 at the latest

u wot m8

[hawkleader3]

10-4. Now that over half of the members in this game are online, I'm not leaving my laptop for a little while. It kind of sucks we don't get to hear from Dong and Apollo though

[hawkleader3]

There it is thanks Hawk

My pc is like fifteen feet away and I’m trying to die of heart failure spurned on by inactivity by 35 at the latest

u wot m8

Lol I was thanking you for pulling up your quotes

It’s hard to do on mobile and my PC is fifteen feet away

The quotes I pulled up disproved whatever you said as a side note.

Hawk said he would put Dong at L-2 like last page

I'm conflicted, because I think Dong looks scummier than you, but I don't want to put him at L-2.

[hawkleader3]

I don't think this is you slipping, but the way you worded it makes it sound like I want to put Dong at L-2, when in reality, I want to vote for Dong, but I don't want to put him at L-2

[hawkleader3]

Hawk, thoughts on Gamma Emerald?

~Auro

Null read. I don't see anything fishy with what she's saying, but none of her decisions made me think "Oh that's probably town".

OH. I read it wrong and apparently still did.

The original point stands that there’s intent to vote and you find Dong scummier, which was the spirit of what I was arguing. Makes you look more town if Dong is scum because that vote doesn’t leave much room for an out. Usually scum would just say we were equally scummy and you could vote either, or that Dong would be your backup. Feel?

I hear ya.

First off:

Extend Deadline

Second off: I guess "Lynching the Lynchpin" was a load of shit, right? Because you instead switch it up to me noe instead of sticking with Ruby.

VOTE: DongEmpire

We should have focused on scum from the get-go.

- Khione

You dont understand the fucking circumstances. I told you to extend the deadline one day ago. You held off on it. Thats why we lost a townie.

I didnt want to lynch in lynchpin suspects, yet i had to because we had no time to create another counterwagon. My play there is to then try to lynch the lynchpin, which was Ruby.

That is my only wincon in that position.

You say that as if its just a blink of the eye to change the wagon to scum. It might be, but

YOU

didnt extend the deadline,

YOU

forced us into a TvT wagon and

YOU

inevitably made the allo lynch happen.
I know who the scumteam is. Its just a matter of proving it thats left. I dont want to lynch Ruby now,

Because i dont have to anymore.

Now i lynch scum. Is that clear? I can give you a million posts of me saying i dont want to lynch the lynchpin, yet i had no choice.
Now take that vote off. Its embarrasing.

I thought it was you who said not to use any deadline extensions earlier in Day 1. Could be mistaken. I'll go back and look for it. I may be off my face though

Who's Apollo Khione's scumbuddy?

~Auro

Hawk

You're pretty cocky for someone who's wrong. And I think Dong was trying to make us believe that Ruby Red was scum so that we'd lynch Ruby so that she'd flip lynchpin and we win. If that was your intent, don't do that. Scumhunt.

[hawkleader3]

I was just about to ask Dong what his read on me was too. Oh this is getting spicy

[hawkleader3]

We cant extend this day any further. Get off your asses and vote ruby for me?

You dont understand the fucking circumstances. I told you to extend the deadline one day ago. You held off on it. Thats why we lost a townie.

I didnt want to lynch in lynchpin suspects, yet i had to because we had no time to create another counterwagon. My play there is to then try to lynch the lynchpin, which was Ruby

[hawkleader3]

How the fuck can anyone be confident in someone being a lynchpin on the first day? Apollo tell us what you think about what's been going on for Day 2, because I'm really close to putting Dong at L-2 because I feel like either Dong or Apollo is scum, so we don't have to worry about a quickhammer right?

[hawkleader3]

Who's Apollo Khione's scumbuddy?

~Auro

Hawk

Is there any other reason why I'm Apollo's scumbuddy aside from me having an extension and not using it Day 1 to stop the allo lynch?

[hawkleader3]

If you know who the lynchpin is you stick with the Lynchpin and win the game. Simple. You stated you know the lynchpin but refuse to kill them.

Nobody knows who the lynchpin is. Talk is cheap. He says he knows, but I'm not taking his word for it because he hasn't given us fucking evidence to prove that Ruby is lynchpin

I was honestly hoping to die to prove Dong completely wrong, yes. Clearly scum dont care about the deadline extensions though.

If Dong flips scum, who do you think his partner would be?

i don't think dong is making any sense but i don't think he's scum here either

I can kind of see where you're coming from this.

Dong, just answer why you think Ruby was lynchpin day 1, and why you think I'm Apollo's scumbuddy. This ain't it, chief

[hawkleader3]

so two of {apollo, hawk, gamma}

Any lynchpin leads or nah?

[hawkleader3]

Unfortunately it's past midnight for me so I got to get my beauty rest.

@Mod: You have my permission to prod Clemency. I kinda want him to help me out here and this is ridiculous.

- Khione

Same, but I feel like my next break will be in 12 hours and I'll be greeted with a shitstorm of posts. Lol

[hawkleader3]

so two of {apollo, hawk, gamma}

Any lynchpin leads or nah?

doesn't matter

lynchpin is something that you get lucky on or something that you

maybe

try to look for associatives on. not something you hunt for.

That's how I feel on the matter. i just didn't know if you had some gut feeling on who it might be. As long as you don't chase that gut feeling and be 100% sure about it

cough Dong cough

I just see if there's a one way defense going on, and then lynch the scum who's defending the lynchpin. I was just curious that if you think Dong is scum, is there someone he isn't really questioning or is defending?

[hawkleader3]

i don't think dong is scum

You right

[hawkleader3]

I don't mean that I agree with your assessment, but that I was mistaken in thinking you thought Dong was scum with my last post

[hawkleader3]

Alright Apollo,
-Creature died,
-Dong voted you and he says he's been onto you for some time
-I suspected GW because I wanted something to go down, and I was wrong
-We're all basically suspecting Dong, and some are suspecting that he's paired with either you or me.
-Dong says the reason he was voting Ruby was because he was sure that Ruby was lynchpin (and he's already said that he's not hunting for lynchpin anymore, and he knows who scum is)

Make sure you actually read the post, but those are my cliffnotes from the game. If there's something I missed, someone please inform him

[hawkleader3]

Maybe you forgot to mention that by "we" in "were all suspecting dong" are only you and apollo himself, which are done in OMGUS, so its scummy af.
Though cant say it matters that much, seeing as you are both scum and already know whats going on.

Okay I shouldn't say that we're all suspecting you, but the majority of us were questioning your decisions and your vote. It does feel like you're tunnelling down this narrative you've created that involves you knowing with pretty good certainty who both scum are. This may just be how you play though.

[hawkleader3]

Analyzing their behaviour and comparing their interactions, especially

allo's

with the other two should theoretically hand us the remaining scum. I'll try to do that tomorrow. Gotta sleep

Allo's with the other two? I'm assuming you mean apollo, and if you don't, can you explain who "the other two" is?

[hawkleader3]

Has Hawk been around too? If so I see no reason not to lynch. It looks like it is pretty clearly Apollo if everyone has checked in. I don't know of many scum teams that don't set up a quickhammer. Either that or scum are on the wagon, but for me that would only be dong, which...no. So I guess that move depends on your read of us and dong.

I have been around. Just got back from school and eating dinner. If we lose the game by mislynching Apollo, I'm fine with that

[hawkleader3]

I think everyone should list the remaining players in the game from most scummy to least scummy. That way, if a majority of people are okay with voting Apollo, we can go ahead and lynch him. If anyone needs an explanation of why they are where they are, let me know. I'll start responding during my breaks in school.

1. Apollo: I don't like the way he's reacting to the pressure that's been placed on him. I was on his side at first and thinking that Dong was just off his rocker, but I think Dong is just some crazy townie who thinks he's figured everything out. I'd be okay losing off an Apollo lynch like I said.

2. GW: I still don't like the way LW responded to my vote against him, and I think Auro might've saved his ass earlier. If for some reason we decide not to lynch Apollo, I want to ISO his game.

3. Dong: I can totally see a GW and Dong mafia pair that have been playing off their ass. Dong is pretty neutral for me though, and I wouldn't be comfortable lynching him right now.

4. Gamma: I still can't get any sort of read on you. It just feels like you're there and when people bring up your name, you respond to it, and then leave again. It may because you have a busy schedule or that you're lurking and waiting to see if your scumbuddy gets lynched before you jump in on D3 to secure a victory. Or maybe you're just busy lol

5. Ruby: I had my doubts on D1, but the more you post, the more I think you're town.

So, I would like everyone's pseudo-votes ASAP, but more preferably by the end of tonight or tomorrow morning. I'm busy on Wednesdays, and if we're not comfortable with an Apollo lynch, I need to know so I can use my deadline extension.

[hawkleader3]

4. Gamma: I still can't get any sort of read on you. It just feels like you're there and when people bring up your name, you respond to it, and then leave again. It may because you have a busy schedule or that you're lurking and waiting to see if your scumbuddy gets lynched before you jump in on D3 to secure a victory. Or maybe you're just busy lol

I am kinda stretched thin, but I don't think I'm only responding when I'm brought up.
Also I want to say AK could be lynchpin, but it's extraneous imo until things develop further.

I'll read an ISO on you then when I get the chance. Apollo being lynchpin would be ludicrous because I feel like he's been a target for most of Day 2. I'd be sweating bullets if I were scum and he was lynchpin that's all I'm saying.

Also, correction in my last post. I didn't realize that Apollo extended the deadline as soon as Day 2 started, so I thought we were still set on the day ending on Thursday, so disregard the whole "I need a decision by Wednesday or I'm going to use my extension" thing

[hawkleader3]

So that's everyone is okay with it except for Gamma as of right now.

[hawkleader3]

I was just making sure that nothing has changed since that post. I didn’t want to start lynching him until everyone was cool with it.

VOTE: Apollo

I have a really bad gut feeling that dong and GW are evil mafia geniuses, but I think I’m overthinking it

[hawkleader3]

Does Clem/Bambi push their partner for trying to mod clearing themselves here? I think that's less likely than a Hawk/Apollo pairing.

Okay I've low key been confused about this since the first page, but who is Bambi? Is Bambi the second half of the Apollo Hydra?

Also, Dong flipping town. Neat. Also, we have a 50/50 shot of winning this game (by either lynching mafia or the lynchpin) ! I love it! Should we still not even slightly hunt for the lynchpin and only use the mechanic to cover our asses if we mislynch? Also, I don't normally like reading ISOs on people, but I'm definitely going to do an ISO on Apollo to see who he voted and didn't vote for

[hawkleader3]

Does Clem/Bambi push their partner for trying to mod clearing themselves here? I think that's less likely than a Hawk/Apollo pairing.

I also read this wrong. I thought you said that a hawk/apollo pairing is less likely. Now that I know you think I'm his scumbuddy, the last thing I want to do is ignore anyone putting my name into question.

I will admit that I was the definition of on the fence when it came to Apollo, but I think I just panicked because if we would've gotten that wrong, then we would've lost the game. I also really didn't want to get outsmarted my you and Dong if you guys were the scum team.

I really feel like you're the lynchpin due to the fact that you're universally townread. I feel like Gamma and Ruby are equally good candidates for being scum. I'll have to wait for more discussions in this game though

[hawkleader3]

Okay here’s my stance in order of most to least preferred lynch

Ruby
GW
Gamma

[hawkleader3]

Okay here’s my stance in order of most to least preferred lynch

Ruby
GW
Gamma

ok

sorry to pry, and this might be controversial



WHY

Okay not going to lie, I wasn't sober when I wrote this post, but I've sobered up since. I don't know what to think anymore. Ruby felt scummy when he responds to pressure. Gamma doesn't post enough. And I have a gut feeling that you're scum that I really want to chase. You asked for my current reads so far though, and that's what they are. Take it or leave it or lynch me

[hawkleader3]

Is Ruby even online?

[hawkleader3]

... it’s a forum

If she’s not, I fucking promise you she will see it when she logs on

What is the point of that question?

@Ruby Red: Why are you convinced it's Gamma?

~Auro

Ruby, what makes you think it’s Gamma?

I just thought it was weird that you asked the same question towards Ruby twice within the same hour. I know you're a hydra, but I figured you'd read each other's posts first. And also, you're mean

[hawkleader3]

I hear ya chief

[hawkleader3]

Wow these prod timers are quicker than I thought. I think Gamma and I should get a prod as well (or I can't count)

I really want to get off my no vote to spice the game up, but I can't tell if Ruby's absence at a time like this makes him look more scummy or townie to me.

[hawkleader3]

I really don't want the game to end with people having to replace in. That would be awful

[hawkleader3]

Can you explain why there’s zero reason not to? I don’t like being told to do things when idk why I’m doing them. Also, how lit would it be if we lynch the lynchpin because the lynchpin votes for themselves? That’d be a quality first game back.

[hawkleader3]

If you’re scum, you want more time if you have pressure on you to shake them off? Idk. I have until Friday to use it, so there’s no rush

[hawkleader3]

Yeah dude. You don’t want to come off as predictable. Lol. So is your order from least to most scummy Ruby, Gamma, Hawk?

[hawkleader3]

you can't lynch tgw hawk

VOTE: The Great Wall

This is just a test to see if Ruby is right in that I can’t lynch him

[hawkleader3]

Idk why that quote’s text came out so small

[hawkleader3]

Lol not this time chief. I’m sticking with my gut on this.

[hawkleader3]

Actually fuck, maybe we are the lynchpin or maybe I do have it backwards.

Shit. Does Apollo move off a buddy and on to LP?

Lol not this time chief. I’m sticking with my gut on this.

So we are doing gut reads in Lylo? Wanna give any reasoning or just keep hem hawing?

I want either you or me to die today. The lack of pressure I’ve gotten despite my scummy play leads me to believe I’m the lynchpin.

[hawkleader3]

Considering voting Hawk at this point, want to see what Ruby has to say first.

Honestly, I'm down this Gamma, GW, and myself voting for me to see if I'm the lynchpin. I'll start.

VOTE: Hawkleader3

The recent posts give the scum!Hawk+LP!Gamma more credibility I think.

Hawk sees pressure on Gamma from both the other slots; is fishy about the deadline extension; then tries to force a 1v1 between us.

~Auro

I didn't see the pressure from Gamma until this post. I need to read back to look at where else I was pressured by her. I'm sorry I didn't address it, but I know you guys aren't buying it.

The lack of pressure I’ve gotten despite my scummy play

So you've deliberately been playing scummy to see if you get pressured - that's your excuse?
My slot was pressuring you - that doesn't count?
--
Red, are you still sure Gamma has more scum equity than Hawk?

~Auro

I mean your vote was on me for a few posts and then switched off. I think it did that earlier in Day 2, but I'll blame the fact that Auro was just reversing LW's vote.

I really want Red's read on me now. Will open my eyes

[hawkleader3]

Okay dude I’m either scum or lynchpin. I like those odds! Give it to me!!!

[hawkleader3]

extend deadline

[hawkleader3]

I was beginning to think it was a gambit where he'd switch his vote to someone else last-minute, haha.

~Auro

That'd be 500 IQ, but no. I'm more than likely going to keep my vote on myself until the game is over. Not enough people are voting me, and I really think it's because I'm the lynchpin. It's not adding up. I should have more votes on me than just myself, but I guess nobody wants to vote me with the fear of a scum quickhammer and victory royale.

Also, let's say it was. What's the play to defend that? Vote for me? Because then I'd be tied with whoever I switched my vote to, but then I think the tiebreaker would be in my favor. I'm not sure how the tiebreaker works!

[hawkleader3]

Yeah there's no way I would've came up with that on my own. But the deadline is extended, and my vote is still on me until some other votes are made. If anyone has to die right now, the thing I'm most confident in between all my scum and lynchpin reads is that I'm lynchpin.

[hawkleader3]

What’s keeping people from placing votes? We only have 2 days.

[hawkleader3]

I'm just sad for Ruby is all. Hawk fucked everything with the self vote.

Yo Holy shit!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm so hype right now! I'm actually dancing in my room. This was the most amazing returning game I could've asked for. Sorry I thought you were scum, GW. I just didn't want to get outsmarted by you! I'm so happy!!!!

[hawkleader3]

I was like "Okay I'm playing extremely scummy here why aren't any of you voting for me. Especially scum. Like scum could easily pick apart my half-ass arguments and justify a vote on me".

[hawkleader3]

Thanks dude! I want notifications of any upcoming lynchpin games. This was fun af. I really got to bond with you all. Oh wait I want to read the dead talk chat!

[hawkleader3]

Is there a link to it yet or has the mod not called the game yet

[hawkleader3]

Good one hawk. I never guessed i'd be wrong after this, but it doesnt matter. You got it right in the end

Yeah you low key really annoyed me by being so absolutely sure of who was scum and lynchpin, but I guess that's just who you are. I'll be honest, I didn't think Ruby would flip red. I expected GW or Gamma to.

You get the link after the Mod comes back. Congrats again dude. This victory is all on you.

I'm literally telling all of my friends about this right now! They don't understand completely because they weren't going on the same journey that I went on, but like. Oh baby. I love being unpredictable

[hawkleader3]

you guys have no idea how much I want to continue playing mafia now.

[hawkleader3]

Well Hawk you have to give Dong some credit, right? He caught me as scum and saw I protected Ruby.

That is true. No Dong is a really good player. Up until day 3, I didn't have any sort of consistent reads. I think was thinking it's either GW/Dong or Apollo. And after he flipped scum, then I was like "Oh shit Dong is super fucking town right now"

[hawkleader3]

Also, I looked up "When is it ever beneficial to vote for yourself in a mafia game" and the results were basically "People only do that when they rage quit", so I was super hesitant, but it was one of those things where I'm just another newbie player if it doesn't work, but it's 10-D chess if it does. Voting myself wasn't the optimal play, but it was the right one and I got lucky off a hunch. Anywho! I want to talk to Lolwagons, Creature, Allomancer. It always feels like a big reunion at the end of these games.

Thanks Bambi!

[hawkleader3]

I want to see what Ruby thinks about all of this

[hawkleader3]

Lol if you're not scum, then scum just basically called a GG. Or maybe this is high level twilight trolling and my play actually lost us the game. Okay I'm nervous now. The mod can't get here any slower!!!

[hawkleader3]

Yeah I know. Confidence is easy to have when you know you're right xD. I had to reread to make sure I wasn't being finessed

[hawkleader3]

I hear ya chief.

[hawkleader3]

I'm avoiding all of you if you lied to me about the results of this game lol

[hawkleader3]

Wow. Dong was right about the lynchpin. Lol. So I definitely don't have the guts to tell my friends that I was wrong and I died. I was having a kinda bad day today too, and this made me feel better.

Kinda wish at least one person believed me when I was pushing GW though.

[hawkleader3]

you can't lynch tgw hawk

VOTE: The Great Wall

This is just a test to see if Ruby is right in that I can’t lynch him

Lol not this time chief. I’m sticking with my gut on this.

[hawkleader3]

hawkleader3, were you intentionally daring TGW to vote you? That would have made things much clearer for town if they had (which is, I suspect, why they were stalling in response to your post.)

I was

Oh god I absolutely cannot read the dead chat now

[hawkleader3]

I honestly think I'd make the same play ten times over. It's just a game. And I'm just a guy on the internet. Who cares if I got b8ed by the twilight chat.

[hawkleader3]

There was no way I was going to be able to swing two more votes onto him, and Ruby wasn't really talking. I didn't know who to vote for, so I just went left when things weren't going right lol.

[hawkleader3]

Hawk, guilt max on twilight trolling :$ BUT I loved your game, and I was genuinely a little scared when you started pushing us from Lol's aggressive reaction - I think the "Good cop bad cop" dissonance helped.

Thanks dude! I'll know now for next game. Still getting my feet wet for who I am as a player lol. Also, no hard feelings to Lolwagons, but I think Auro saved your ass a couple of times

[hawkleader3]

Lol just read the dead thread. I was disappointed in the lack of scumhunting on day 3 as well tbh. Seeing everyone cringe when I voted for myself was pretty funny though

[hawkleader3]

Your name does sound familiar. I'll go check. And yeah, I'm all grown up lol

[hawkleader3]

Lol sorry about that chief

[hawkleader3]

This was a rollercoaster indeed. Sorry for letting you on hawk, i thought at least i'd let you have some sense of relief after trying this hard to hardcarry town. Although we lost, i believe you did the best out of everyone else and you couldve got scum if town was cooperating. Dont let it get you, this was a game that thrilled me start to finish, at least, until everyone went afk and there was a prod dodge every 12 hours, but ok that doesnt count.

I feel like the most fun part of the game was discussing it with Elsa and the mod in the dead thread. Knowing the context gives it much more meaning and they are just nice people to get along with imo. The game got stale by D3 so circlejerking in the dead thread was all we had.

Yeah it was lots of fun. Honestly, I figured GW or Apollo never laid a finger on me until I basically was asking for it from GW.

I think I fell so far down a hole as a scum target, that I just convinced myself that I can’t get anyone lynched but me, but nobody’s voting me so I’m lynchpin? Idk. It was fun though

I love the games where I make it to the last day. I think next time I’ll just ISO everyone who’s alive in LYLO. Might’ve been able to not only catch GW, but convince others that he was scum as well. Oh well. Still had fun, but being outsmarted by GW when I promised myself I wouldn’t be will sting for a little while. I just imagine a Great Wall of 4 super-mafia players (like Mount Rushmore), or a dragon with 4 heads that you see as a final boss