Booneytoonz IX - Under The Sea -- Game Over!

[Firebringer]

all i've done recently is call him manipulative (which his posts are, blatantly, as he tries to use whatever he can to get a lynch that isn't him) and vote him.

like I can see actions being survivalism but if elsa wanted to get a lynch of anyone, I think elsa would be happy going on davesaz here too which elsa isn't doing. I guess you could say strategically doesn't see that as a better counter for his own lynch but I fail to see how its manipulative that he is pushing a lynch hard on someone counter to him when anyone would? Am I missing something here.

Is it he trusts u? I kind of have some trust in u chara but I haven't seen u call me manipulative.
Or like do u think ur push on him should have gotten a different reaction?

[Wisdom]

dave has a single vote and lady has three

how the fuck are they comparable

also did you consider maybe theyre buddies?

[Firebringer]

I already acknowledged that from a strategic point of view it might not optimal but if elsa wanted to manipulate me, I would expect for him to at least appease me to get me to vote with him, and he hasn't done that.

and if they are buddies wouldn't that be more reason for him to vote him? create distance? Like you even said davesaz vote on elsa was shit, why not distance?

[Wisdom]

because if the lady wagon falls apart elsa is getting lynched
we have 3 days left
be realistic

[Firebringer]

yeah and he doesn't need to vote davesaz just go along with what I say and he could point out the time restriction to get a lynch on someone else while appeasing my read.

[Wisdom]

its like you dont want to see the point

again, he is forced to push lady now because otherwise hes getting lynched. Doing anything else is suboptimal.

[Chara]

like I can see actions being survivalism but if elsa wanted to get a lynch of anyone, I think elsa would be happy going on davesaz here too which elsa isn't doing. I guess you could say strategically doesn't see that as a better counter for his own lynch but I fail to see how its manipulative that he is pushing a lynch hard on someone counter to him when anyone would? Am I missing something here.

it's the way he keeps bringing up how he townread the PR claims, and how mean Kaito outed them. and how he's compromising on the lynch due to necessity, and how it's all Wisdom's fault for turning me against him. the way he says these things is what is manipulative to me. it's all very LAMIST, and not in the buzz word way, but rather the actual way.
and LA wagon is a compromise no one besides Wisdom and i are fighting, so it's certainly a safer bet for Elsa than davesaz would be.

not to mention he's happy to agree with Maki's 'contradiction' about Wisdom voting with his scumreads, when Elsa is on the same wagon as Kaito and fine with it. he's just saying things and justifying them later.

[Firebringer]

like what I am saying is elsa is definitely being survivalistic, but his actions aren't downright manipulative because if they were manipulative I think I would see a whole lot difference in what he was saying and doing. Like if he was trying to be manipulative here, he is doing a real shit job of it.

pedit no I get ur point he has to say on the lady wagon to avoid getting lynched, I am just saying that doesn't equal scum because no wanting to get lynched isn't inherently scummy. and where we disagree is how his actions are either manipulative in a scum mindset or not.
is that wrong?

[Wisdom]

Hence why he brings up ridiculous points like

"Dont let a replacement get into a miller slot"
"Dont let Wisdom get a new scumbuddy"
etc

He needs to get lady lynched and hes not hiding it

[Firebringer]

like I can see actions being survivalism but if elsa wanted to get a lynch of anyone, I think elsa would be happy going on davesaz here too which elsa isn't doing. I guess you could say strategically doesn't see that as a better counter for his own lynch but I fail to see how its manipulative that he is pushing a lynch hard on someone counter to him when anyone would? Am I missing something here.

it's the way he keeps bringing up how he townread the PR claims, and how mean Kaito outed them. and how he's compromising on the lynch due to necessity, and how it's all Wisdom's fault for turning me against him. the way he says these things is what is manipulative to me. it's all very LAMIST, and not in the buzz word way, but rather the actual way.
and LA wagon is a compromise no one besides Wisdom and i are fighting, so it's certainly a safer bet for Elsa than davesaz would be.

not to mention he's happy to agree with Maki's 'contradiction' about Wisdom voting with his scumreads, when Elsa is on the same wagon as Kaito and fine with it. he's just saying things and justifying them later.

hmhmhmhmhm

[Wisdom]

like what I am saying is elsa is definitely being survivalistic, but his actions aren't downright manipulative because if they were manipulative I think I would see a whole lot difference in what he was saying and doing. Like if he was trying to be manipulative here, he is doing a real shit job of it.

look at how he tried to get chara to vote with him, saying i am setting up a lynch on chara
look at how he tried to get creature to sheep him
look at his statements about why im a good lynch

hes definitely manipulative

[Chara]

wisdom/dave/lady

oh yeah forgot about kaito

he can be scum too

I still rather Kaito bite the dusto, but if I have to compromise then so be it. Besides, when Maki commits Seppuku and Clem is murdered, we all know who caused that to happen.

VOTE: Lady Angel

Sometimes to get the Super Scum, you got to massacre a few expendable slots.

forgets about his Kaito scumread for a second, but it's still the player he wants most to lynch. and LA is a compromise despite being in his scumlist?

aside from that Elsa's reads are

extremely

static and i'm not seeing much evidence of them changing in response to game events.

[Firebringer]

Yeah hold on, none of this reads like he scumreads lady like at all.

@Elsa why are you posting like you are sure Lady is scum?

[Chara]

compare Elsa's reads to Wisdom's. his read on me changed based entirely on

my

posts during the period he was scumreading me, not on how the game was viewing me at the time. it's part of why i'm townreading Wisdom and why i'm not townreading Elsa.

when i asked why Elsa was so confident in his reads, he told me it was because his townreads PR-claimed. no matter how i've approached him he's maintained a staunch townread on me.

pedit: yes.

[Wisdom]

Back to Kaito again?

Sheep, Kaito gets a pass for now. He's either scum with Wisdom or just very prideful at the moment. Killing Wisdom solves that puzzle for us.

I said this before about Kaito (Dunn) in Limbo, but honestly leaving him alive seems more beneficial now that I finally remembered that experience and calmed down a bit.

Wisdom is our optimal choice. Kaito is the Red Herring. Lady Angel is our backup option because Gamma should

eventually

show up and replace her and prod the others.

Chara don't be indecisive, that's how scum (Wisdom) can eventually get a mislynch on you.

From my perspective, Wisdom is setting up a lynch on you now. Dont let that slide.

Wisdom went off the deep end and is going for me, Clem, and Maki. He's brainwashed Chara to his side.

Are we all gonna actually let someone replace into this game to stall out the lynch? If we stall it out any longer there won't even be much of a game with no interest in it.

Please guys, be sensible. We have 2 claimed PRs. 4 living people claiming Miller still, the main one we want to lynch being gone.

Do you REALLY want someone to replace into a Miller Slot?

cmon look at these posts, especially the last

you cant tell me you don't see the narrative building and him trying to control the thoughts and actions of others

[Elsa Jay]

Vote elsa

Vote wisdom

elsa/sheep/chara

wisdom/dave/lady

oh yeah forgot about dave

he can be scum too

oh yeah forgot about kaito

he can be scum too

sigh

sigh

Well the first 2 quotes was me mimicking Wisdom's words, on that part I should have worded better, I admit. But my readslist has changed to Kaito being scummy null-town and Wisdom being the true baddie here. As you see I've given up on Kaito because I'm unsure if I'm right on that front.

Pedit: too fire's question: If you dont sound sure on something nothing ever gets done, right? Even if I think Lady has a 50% chance of flipping scum, I say it with 100% certainty since that's what people listen too. Basic leadership and debate 101.

Too Chara: like I said before, I grouped you, Maki, and Clem in the same boat since day 1. I'm confident I found a core set for the town and with all 3 of you not being VT's, clearly I was onto something.

[Firebringer]

Pedit: too fire's question: If you dont sound sure on something nothing ever gets done, right? Even if I think Lady has a 50% chance of flipping scum, I say it with 100% certainty since that's what people listen too. Basic leadership and debate 101.

okay.... but if you are faking certainty in order to lead u are doing so to get people to do what you want in a deceptive manner....you understand that, right?

[Chara]

Too Chara: like I said before, I grouped you, Maki, and Clem in the same boat since day 1. I'm confident I found a core set for the town and with all 3 of you not being VT's, clearly I was onto something.

a few things.
number 1 would be, i claimed miller in my first post. you weren't "on" to anything.
number 2: there are townies that aren't PRs. i'm not sure why your read accuracy in picking town would be validated by them also being PRs.

[Wisdom]

also there are scum who claim to he prs

[Wisdom]

be*

[Elsa Jay]

Yeah you claimed it in your first post. Which I admit I forgot the Miller claims that weren't Alchemist and Frozen until later until day 1. And again, if I'm not certain in my townreads like my scumreads, then people dig into it. That part backfired since you dont trust the way I townread you, so my stubborn townread will be reevaluated.

Frankly Chara, looking at you objectively, you are the 1 Miller who's actively participating since Alch got killed. Dave has other RL issues and the Angels ditched us for Heaven. By my own admission I think 1 of the Millers is scum. Your the Miller doing stuff. You are therefore the 1 legitimate Miller I believe, so while your not an IC your as close to one as it gets for me.

So while you probably dont agree with why I townread you, it's why I do and I will stick by it. Which is why I want you by my side instead of Wisdom since, again, I don't trust him.

[Creature]

creature recent posting has me kinda paranoid that he had an unexpected start as wolf and is kinda just trying to inflate post count as much as possible at this point?

No, I lost my actual interest.

It's just Elsa and Wisdom bickering with each other.

[Creature]

My tunnel with Frozen Angel was more interesting.

[Creature]

Burnt out? You literally just got unbanned and back into it.

Well, the spam era (2017) has ended.

[Chara]

i've won as scum before because town wasn't doing anything and i just continued to be active. it isn't too hard when it's like that.
four living millers, you think one is scum, and all of them are behaving similarly except for me... yes, it's a little difficult to believe. and "doing stuff" is so easy as scum, to begin with. is that how deep your reads usually go?