Mini Normal 2054: Winter's Sacrifice [Game Over]

[Sashaddin]

VOTE: RoosterFroster
Freeze that chicken.

[Sashaddin]

Also, rosterfoster is town.

Not sure yet... Why would you think so?

[Sashaddin]

I can see Egix and Junko as town. Dann is giving me both feelings at once. As for the Gamma thing, I don't think I understand what's going on.

[Sashaddin]

What's sasha's excuse?

The answer is in your signature: family time on week-ends. Also the quasi-omnipresent debate of whether or not RVS are relevant was not quite over yet.

[Sashaddin]

I like 127 but am not willing to vote xwing myself yet.

[Sashaddin]

no questions were thrown my way though..

What do you think is being the cause of your wagon?

[Sashaddin]

I like 127 but am not willing to vote xwing myself yet.

UNVOTE: xwing
VOTE: Sashaddin

Are you willing to vote xwing now?

Didn't want to be L-2, now I don't care.

VOTE: Xwing

[Sashaddin]

Didn't want to be L-2, now I don't care.

VOTE: Xwing

L-1 in the above, sorry

[Sashaddin]

what changed, sasha?
VOTE: sasha

The fact that pushing you to L-1 would make you vulnerable to lolhammers and quickhammers. We've only started, I didn't my position was strong enough on you to push this hard, contextually.
Now that your wagon has thinned, I can vote a bit more at peace. I'll reread you in our previous game to see how you compare when I have time though.

[Sashaddin]

i find this a bit contradictory..

when you initially voted for me, you said you didnt care (your vote placed me to L-1

)..but this statement means you do care..

That didn't happen, that is what I didn't want to happen.

I see you more towny now, your previous game gives me quite the same vibe for now.

UNVOTE: Xwing

[Sashaddin]

VOTE: Sashaddin

ohhhhhh ok

I don't quite follow your thoughts here. I have an idea, but I'd like you to speak first so I don't put words in your mouth.

[Sashaddin]

what did you mean by "not caring" then?

I (didn't) care ... about the L-1 since that was not the case anymore. My vote had less impact (4th I think) instead of sixth. But I was still suspicious of you.

[Sashaddin]

Really don’t like the “for now” out

And I also feel like out of all the people to reference Schadds game you fleshed it out the least. Could be because you were last to back off, but then that leads to asking why you were a holdout.

From 156 I thought you were not a meta guy. Your answer surprises me. This is not what I expected.

I'd like to answer about the "holdout" but I don't understand the meaning. English is not my first language, sorry

[Sashaddin]

Really don’t like the “for now” out

Opinions can change, I didn't want people to think I was town!xwing all the way. Different ways of thinking I guess.

[Sashaddin]

@xwing

JC: Roleplay made me think that she had nothing to lose so that she leaned town. Not always a tell, but I could fall for it. But it was an early game call, now I've found people more townier.

Egix: While in our previous game he was mostly absent, in this game he is quite on the offensive. First on gamma then on xwing. I have a thought that he might want to make a lot of distance between Gamma and him. His play towards xwing is not quite the same I think. A complicated slot to read right now, I'm not so sure he's town anymore. Could be, but then easily could not too.

I am a French Canadian indeed.

[Sashaddin]

“Last holdout” means the last person arguing for a certain topic or last person to stop defending a certain stance.

Forgot to answer this one.

I think it's a question of timing, which led to rereading xwing. which led to a bit of sheeping
But his posts really got better in the meantime so I'm ok having my vote off him.

[Sashaddin]

got a couple of questions on your egix read..
1) why would you expect egix to distance himself from gamma?
2) what do you mean by his play towards me being different? do you mean compared to his approach with gamma?

1- Both would be scum
2- The angle he used wasn't the same for both people, imo.

[Sashaddin]

I am having a boatload of trouble getting a damn scumread

Tight game, eh?

[Sashaddin]

@sash, what do you mean by number 2? how was it different?

Gamma was approached on the participation side and Xwing on the meta side.
Might not be a huge tell, but sometimes when scum knows more than it should, it does those little odd things that pile up for me near endgame.

[Sashaddin]

Townies: Percy HC
Leaning Town: xwing Egix Slaxx Flubber

Notables suspects:
Bubujaber for jumping off my wagon when it was dissolving and joining Gamma's
JumkoChan for lurking

[Sashaddin]

I can't help but notice you're not voting anyone? Why wouldn't you vote one of your "notable suspects" to apply pressure?

What are your thoughts on the Gamma wagon?

I could have voted Bubujaber but I don't have him as a strong scumlean. I vote easier when I'm more convinced. Same for Junko.
The Gamma wagon is unreadable to me, too many people jumping in and out for whatever reasons. I never understood why it began in the first place. I'm keeping clear of this one.

[Sashaddin]

"

I vote easier when I'm more convinced

" reads like you just don't want to look suspicious for voting for poor reasons, or you can't find good ones (which again you should be actively looking for those, which you are not).

It's early D1, no one's reasons are particularly good

. Regardless, your vote is your weapon, use it to find a better place to put it if you must.

I think the bolded parts from your own sentence describe best how I play.

No good reasons = usually no vote from me. I don't like pressure just for having pressure somewhere. Making talk is good, too much pressure lead to myslynches imho.

[Sashaddin]

The fact that pushing you to L-1 would make you vulnerable to lolhammers and quickhammers. We've only started, I didn't my position was strong enough on you to push this hard, contextually.
Now that your wagon has thinned, I can vote a bit more at peace. I'll reread you in our previous game to see how you compare when I have time though.

Like, you're just

so

conscious of how your vote is going to look as opposed to what it actually does and that doesn't feel particularly town. Do you tend to do this in all of your games?

In this situation, having someone at L-1 on the second day of the game was weird to me. It's not the look of it, I just thought it would be better if the day was longer.
From the games I played in, the L-1 spot is often the most suspicious one. I am giving this point to you, this is not a spot I like to vote in, regardless of my alignment.
I don't care about the other spots on the wagon.

[Sashaddin]

Myself, roster, Tchill, and Gamma are all missing from your reads lists. Are we all null reads to you?

Dannflor, roster undecided. I can see both sides ...
Tchill and Gamma are null. Gamma is hard to understand this game I think, as her wagon demonstrates.

[Sashaddin]

If the Gamma wagon is so mystifying to you why don't you question it?

Ok, I lost my train of thought a couple of times when I got to that point, what do you understand from it?

[Sashaddin]

Why is Haschel a strong townread for you?

I reallly liked the posts 239 to 242. really objective and to the point. I also have a hard time imagining 280 coming from scum, especially points 3 and 4.

[Sashaddin]

Except my point is you're not making talk, you posted a generic reads list and aren't really attempting to sort people better or clear up confusing aspects of the game to you. If you aren't using your vote, and you aren't doing that, you're effectively doing nothing.

1) I usually get people to ask about my reads when I do that, which is more pleasant to me than having to write a wall for every opinion I might have. A bit of laziness and lack of time I guess.
2) As you might have seen in my meta, I often don't have a vote Day 1. I promise I'll vote within the day, right now I'm taking a break from trying to power on a new compy I just assembled. Bitch won't even POST...

[Sashaddin]

You town read Haschel for these points and yet you don't townread me for making the exact same points earlier in the game. Why?

Does town always follow the game 100%?

[Sashaddin]

4 votes in post 325
Danflor 328 (5)
Roster 334 (6)
(Danflor calls L-1)
Junko 339 (7-hammer), think it's hammer then L-1
Slaxx unvotes 342

Why the quickhammer Junko?

[Sashaddin]

Why are you comming with this wagon right when Tchill is about to die makes me go mmhmmm

also, I'm okay with this VOTE: Tchill

Also, your hammer comes on a player you never ever mentioned once during this game yet. Sheeping for a hammer?

[Sashaddin]

4 votes in post 325
Danflor 328 (5)
Roster 334 (6)
(Danflor calls L-1)
Junko 339 (7-hammer), think it's hammer then L-1
Slaxx unvotes 342

Why the quickhammer Junko?

Ah Roosterswitched votes in-between, that's what got me fooled.

[Sashaddin]

Also I'm bored and want to end this boring day cuz being town is boring

did I say I was bored yet?

for me it is only entertaining once we reach later days

I agree I hate Day 1 as well, I never offer good performances so early. No flips yet makes it all speculation.
But, still, I found your move extremely scummy given the context. 348 is not helping your case at all. Let's put my money somewhere...

VOTE: JunkoChan

[Sashaddin]

209 is pretty bad.

Look at what happened: Junko wanted to quickhammer Tchill. Is 209 still that bad now?

[Sashaddin]

inb4 Junko scum for hammering

You can run, but you can't hide.
The more I think about it... you have had weirdest reaction lately and I don't see it it as good. Especially 249, 260 and the hammer.
VOTE: JunkoChan

[Sashaddin]

I see two mistakes I made:
-I was referencing posts 349 and 360.
-I already voted on Junko.

lol

[Sashaddin]

Sorry I meant sashaddin not slaxx in the above ^

That's cool

I'm thinking about this wagon and I see no reason for me to get on it. Maybe I'm re-living my previous game, where I couldn't read an (obvious?) scum Day 1.

But I'd like Tchill to claim for sure.

[Sashaddin]

I'm thinking about this wagon and I see no reason for me to get on it. Maybe I'm re-living my previous game, where I couldn't read an (obvious?) scum Day 1

I called it!

[Sashaddin]

@sasha: what are your reads now?

I like Egix and Percivul as town. Both make good arguments and reasoning, especially Egix in this game. Haschel had a good rep Day 1 and Flubber has solid points too.
Townleans are Roster(393 is reading good to me) and Xwing.

I think the scum must be in the remaining: {Junko, Danflor, Gamma, Bujaber}

[Sashaddin]

im only second guessing myself coz percy and dann (strongest townreads after slaxx) are not with me..

Percy, I get. Why Dannflor?

[Sashaddin]

@salsadin shut up please

So you want me to stop playing?

[Sashaddin]

Sashaddin MAYBE could've been doing it because of his awkward switch away end of day,

It was because of JunkoChan's move to try to hammer to have no discussions or claims. I found it scummy to try this and she gave a poor excuse to do it.

[Sashaddin]

Right now I'm torn between putting BJ at L-1 or follow from day 1 and OMGUS Junko. 418 was just rude.

[Sashaddin]

Ok after rereading relevant parts, I'm down to
{Junko + Flub} or {Bujaber + ?}

Intent to hammer Bujaber

[Sashaddin]

What parts?

You think you are Junko the towniest placer

and can throw reads without backstory?

No, I don't claim to be a wannabe-bully who tries to make people not enjoy this game.

[Sashaddin]

Why

Why not? Read day 1

@xwing Do I have to?.. I believe last 3 pages of fay 1 are very selfexplanatory

Your quickhammer was self-explanatory. Those last 3 pages are not, can you summarize them to me please?

[Sashaddin]

I scumread Junko for the quickhammer attempt and the 417-430 duo.
Flubber for sheeping Junko and I believe 355-368 could be a distancing move. Less sure about this though.

[Sashaddin]

Tbh you are either really bad or scum, scumreading you is a compliment

Am I the best at this game? No
Do I like to play? Yes
Do I want to learn? Yes
What does it do if I am the worst on the lineup? It always takes one, doesn't it?
Do I like your attitude towards me? Not at all. You are being rude and insulting for absolutely nothing.

[Sashaddin]

spearheads are good.

What does this mean?

[Sashaddin]

pedit: @sash: tell me how dann's not obvtown from the above posts..

I had a weird feeling from the start of the game, but his iso looks better to me we advance. Maybe I ran over his a little fast last time. Yeah, he looks good.
As for the hammer, eh, don't wait for me, go ahead if you want to. I'm waiting for Bujaber to come speak a little.

[Sashaddin]

Primarily Sash (and I mean hopefully that's the scum team), and Junko rang a few bells

If you think we're scum vs scum, I'll tell you I almost asked to be replaced since 418. I really find her offensive. If I'd been scum I'd probably have played along instead of underlining the situation.

[Sashaddin]

How often have you seen scum actually quickhammer? Seems like mostly a myth in my experience.

I don't know how often, but this time she really got me surprised with the way she had done it.
You have a lot more experience than I do though.

[Sashaddin]

@sasha: fwiw i dont think you and JC are scum..who's in your scum radar right now?

Junko since Day 1, Bujaber. Flubber a bit less than those two.
I townread/townlean pretty much everyone else for now.

[Sashaddin]

Sorry for hurting your e-feelings, maybe your replacement will be more interesting

Nah, I decided I wouldn't be bothered by a 17 year old japanese girl anymore.

[Sashaddin]

and I think 1 scum would definitely be on the wagon so I was looking there first.

How many scums do you think on your wagon right now?

[Sashaddin]

This is far too early to even consider ending the day let alone posting intent.

A hammer gives a different kind of pressure to the wagon than an earlier vote. So far, I didn't see the event I was waiting for and you have done a good job of redirecting the attention away from you (on me!) so you're kinda off the hook for me right now.

[Sashaddin]

Meh. Sashaddin vs. Junko is feeling more town vs. town.

(also you guys scum read each other, it's fine, no need for attacks)

You're right I guess. I could see her as town if I really understood how she thinks. But the hammer attempt on day1 is still suspiciously scummy to me.

[Sashaddin]

But the hammer attempt on day1 is still suspiciously scummy to me.

Think it through. Why would scum want to do something that draws so much attention? What's Junko's motivation to quick hammer her own buddy before there's even a claim and a chance for him to survive? 9/10 that move comes from frustrated or YOLO!town than scum from my experience.

I know quickhammers have been done to deny town the opportunity to debate strategy by forcing the day to end abruptly. Not often but I've seen it.
Regarding the attention, I survived my last scum game by doing the opposite of what a prudent player would have done so here I was open to anything.

[Sashaddin]

but I will say that the phrasing "my last scum game" seems just a teeny bit slippy.

Meh, that's a real stretch. My last x game just means my most recent game is that alignment. I don't know how else he'd refer to his latest scum game regardless of his alignment this game.

There is a bit of translation issue too. I really meant "the last game I was scum in". Dannflor has it right.

[Sashaddin]

Do you have a link to that game?

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=77764

[Sashaddin]

@Rosterfoster: Do you see a suspect outside of {xwing, Bujaber, Dannflor}? And who?

[Sashaddin]

well i would agree that sash was really different..
i believe he should play more charismatically regardless of his alignment though, i mean i think charisma plays a part in the gut reads and how people perceive you..wow im honestly pleasantly surprised!

i've played with town!sash once (together with town!egix) and sasha seems the same to me--a bit fence-sitty, cautious and quiet..though take this with a grain of salt as sasha seems good with adapting lol..

I will try to get back to my old self again. Last month, I had a lot more of personal stuff going on than I expected, so a lot of unused moments went somewhere else than Mafia.

As for being fence-sitty and prudent, I guess it's my style, whatever my algnment. I prefer to see which way things are going before hopping in for questions or taking position.

[Sashaddin]

I read Isos before going to bed:

Egix, Dannflor, Percivul are town
JunkoChan is probably town.
Flubbernugget is not looking good to me.
As for Roster, it will probably depend on my question above if I'll case him or clear him.
The others I will do later.

[Sashaddin]

I will try to get back to my old self again. Last month, I had a lot more of personal stuff going on than I expected, so a lot of unused moments went somewhere else than Mafia.

Seems like you're saying

I'm playing worse now because I have MORE time for mafia

.

No I screwed it up it seems. I meant that those brainless moments in a day: feeding the baby, vacuuming, doing dishes... were going to mafia and other games before. But I've been busy lately so those moments I think of something else than mafia. I also did not make an Excel spreadsheet for the two games I'm currently in so I have to reread more often, which takes time.
I rarely have a good day 1 and this one was worse than the others.

[Sashaddin]

@flubbz: what do your reads look like now? what's your opinion on sash, roster and buj?

I still like sash for scum. Rooster idk. I also have a scum read on junko that I need to elaborate on

Although I townread Junko right now, I'd be interested in your read on her.

[Sashaddin]

Flubber can claim later. Hasch and then Sash and then popcorn to roster and flubber

I'll claim after Flubber.

This is getting confusing. I'll claim when I'm asked to...

[Sashaddin]

Spoiler:

Oh I did not notice the vote from 328. If you want to join a Bujaber wagon I'm all ears.

VOTE: Bujaber

I played a couple of games ages ago on a different site (it used this wiki for roles and stuff), But really my proper experience is my only game here.

Most-Least Scummiest:
Bujaber,
Xwing,

Tchill/Sashadinn (they feel the same to me)

Why are you comming with this wagon right when Tchill is about to die makes me go mmhmmm

also, I'm okay with this VOTE: Tchill

Good night

inb4 Junko scum for hammering

Whoever lolhammers is scum imo, shameless statement.

You can't have it both ways!!

[Sashaddin]

Haschel, AFAIC you can go ahead and hammer.

I didn't claim. Should I?
Can I hammer?

[Sashaddin]

I am vanilla townie.

VOTE: Flubbernugget

[Sashaddin]

btw sorry if I was too rude with some of you, I like to change m approach from game to game, this time I read some of you guys past games and realized many of you get tilted easily so to get reactions acted heavily, xoxo, probably won't happen again.

I hope to see you again in another mood then.
Am I one the ones who get tilted easily?

[Sashaddin]

Yes improve that so people like me can't use it against you

Did you learn anything with this move?