Mini Normal 2054: Winter's Sacrifice [Game Over]

[Persivul]

VOTE: Gamma

Could have just as easily been on Junk. STFU.

[Persivul]

I always believed that naked votes during RVS are Status quo for noob mafia

I naked vote in RVS frequently as either alignment. It's no big deal.

[Persivul]

When did it become in fashion to toss around town reads with less than a hundred posts?

Are you guys such bad scum that you can't fake it for that long?

[Persivul]

??? just how many scum do you think there are

No, point is if you town read someone in less than a hundred posts, you must be such bad scum yourself that you give yourself away that quickly when you are scum. Not that they're all scum in this particular game. It's ridiculous. People probably think they're good at it because you'll be right ~75% of the time just by chance.

[Persivul]

I can see what you're saying, but I think it's less about scum "giving themselves away" and more about town tells being more indicative than scum tells. After how many posts do you think it is appropriate to

start gathering

reads on people?

You can "start gathering" reads right away. Proclaiming someone town - that takes more than 4 pages.

[Persivul]

When did it become in fashion to toss around town reads with less than a hundred posts?

Are you guys such bad scum that you can't fake it for that long?

Post number doesn't really matter. Tell me why scum would throw out TR's atm when they don't have to take a stance at all yet.

That's...not...the...point.

[Persivul]

Haschels tryharding reads town

Scum doesn't go to this much effort to check their reads, nor do they want to.

This is exactly what scum would do

Aren't these two posts completely contradictory?

[Persivul]

The naive side of me wants to agree with this, but there's nothing telling me that someone who joined the site that long ago couldn't do that as scum.

Yep, as flub himself said in 46.

[Persivul]

Yes

Yes they do

Scum has to work harder to keep their story straight

But you read tryharding as town...

[Persivul]

Junko is probably town too

Why?

[Persivul]

I'll explain later in this post but why is two townreads (the only ones I've mentioned, I believe) "too many?" Reads can change. Also, getting strong townreads early is one of the best ways to pin down mafia by process of elimination.

I don't know about BuJaber, but for me, the issue isn't HAVING town reads. The issue is ANNOUNCING them. Town doesn't need to announce their town reads at this point of the game. Scum could do so to appear to be actually analyzing the game, and for buddying.

[Persivul]

Also towmreading so soon is a problem. There's little content to go on, leading to weak townreads. It shows that you're easily fooled/too gullibe if town, or if scum: trying to pocket / appear perceptive with an early read you know is right / townreading your partner. Weak townreads can lead to town removing people from the scum pool prematurely. They are dangerous to town if wrong. It is better to be skeptical and cautious and constantly reevaluate.

Bingo.

[Persivul]

93 Horrible entrance

VOTE: xwing

[Persivul]

He has three posts. Too early to say.

[Persivul]

He has three posts. Too early to say.

Then what was scummy about xwing's post?

The two

I agrees

.Looks like scum that doesn't know how to generate content but feels a need to put content up.

[Persivul]

i will agree

I take no responsibility...

for now..

And reserve the right to change my mind later if that's convenient.

i agree it seems like dann is *trying* to pocket,

I kinda sorta agree...

but his later posts seems fine..

But no, not really.

[Persivul]

This is disappointing... I know that town!xwing can do better than this.

So vote it.

[Persivul]

What about persivul's style don't you like

Well TBF I am kind of an asshole.

[Persivul]

I like 127 but am not willing to vote xwing myself yet.

Ew. Yucky post.

[Persivul]

Haschels tryharding reads town

Scum doesn't go to this much effort to check their reads, nor do they want to.

This is exactly what scum would do

Aren't these two posts completely contradictory?

Why would they be?

Er, because if you think scum would also try hard, then tryhard should be NAI to you.

[Persivul]

And with a large percent of scum apparently giving themselves away nowadays, why haven't you found one yet?

If you're referring to 97, how did you miss 100?

[Persivul]

Yes

Yes they do

Scum has to work harder to keep their story straight

But you read tryharding as town...

Why do you equate consistency with tryharding?

WTF? How do you come up with that question from what you quoted?

[Persivul]

Why does not following the game make me scum?

Because scum already know the answers, hence they don't really need to analyze it as closely as town.

VOTE: Gamma

[Persivul]

And with a large percent of scum apparently giving themselves away nowadays, why haven't you found one yet?

If you're referring to 97, how did you miss 100?

I didn't miss it. It was a contrived point

On what basis?

and hard to figure out what you were getting at.

What part of "Not that they're all scum in this particular game" did you have trouble with?

[Persivul]

Haschels tryharding reads town

Here you say that tryharding reads town.

I mean scum doesn't "scumread" someone based on something that happened in a previous game and then double check that to compare. It's too elaborate to fake. Yea, you can argue WIFOM or whatever but there's a far greater likelihood that line of thought comes from town.

Yes

Yes they do

Scum has to work harder to keep their story straight

Here you say that scum need to work harder than town.

If Haschel is working hard, should that not then be scummy, or at best NAI, according to your position on effort in 50?

Are you using "tryharding" in 45 to mean something other than actually trying hard? (Some of the terms that evolve here do more harm than good, as they mean different things to different people).

And why are you being combative, rather than working with me to come to an understanding?

[Persivul]

Funny enough, I would have asked you the same thing.

Go right ahead. I'd answer now, but I'm not sure what you're referring to.

[Persivul]

Yes

Yes they do

Scum has to work harder to keep their story straight

But you read tryharding as town...

Why do you equate consistency with tryharding?

"Scum has to work harder" - refers to effort
"to keep their story straight" - refers to consistency

"Tryharding" - as noted in previous post, these terms end up meaning different things to different people, but I think on the face of it it has something to do with effort, and nothing to do with consistency.

So...why did you think I was comparing the tryharding comment to the part of the statement that refers to consistency, rather than the part that refers to effort?

This reminded me that people are voting you for not really paying attention to the game. Hence my vote.

[Persivul]

Currently I'd vote any of {xwing, gamma, sash}.

[Persivul]

Yeah, I like playing ace attorney sometimes. But, you're not the only person in the game. What do you think of my push on xwing? Contrived? Why isn't that scum hunting?

[Persivul]

I like 127 but am not willing to vote xwing myself yet.

UNVOTE: xwing
VOTE: Sashaddin

Are you willing to vote xwing now?

Didn't want to be L-2, now I don't care.

VOTE: Xwing

Didn't want to be L-2, now I don't care.

VOTE: Xwing

L-1 in the above, sorry

VOTE: Sash

[Persivul]

This is exactly how I made a bad push on xwing last time I played with them

Were you town or scum in that game?

[Persivul]

The xwing wagon also piled on super fast and had two naked votes on it so that should be making you suspicious of its intentions

Did you notice that I moved to Sash?

He looks like shit, but TBH since that vote I refreshed myself on his past scum play, and he didn't have any problems fitting in D1 before, so I'm not sold on that one either.

[Persivul]

feel there's gotta be at least one scum on my wagon, though i dont think it's percy..

I don't think it's sash either, based on meta. How about.....
VOTE: tchill

[Persivul]

feel there's gotta be at least one scum on my wagon, though i dont think it's percy..

I don't think it's sash either, based on meta. How about.....
VOTE: tchill

meta is cool but i find it a bit unreliable since people can *mostly* change how they play..
but as i've said, i can see value in a tchill wagon too..

what did you find on sasha's meta?

He's fun and talkative as scum. I forgot, but I recently played a game in which I was town and he was scum.

Yeah, people can change meta, but...why would scum change to a scummier game just to rig meta?

[Persivul]

4D chess loses mafia games. Back to basics wins mafia games.

[Persivul]

Yeah

I'm still fine with my xwing vote

. Especially considering it went from the leading wagon and the game turned to multiple wagons with multiple votes. That means we're pretty divided on where to go.

All ik is ppl don't want xwing lynched atm.

Am I missing something? This reads like,

yeah I'm fine parking my vote somewhere that I know it's not doing any good

.

[Persivul]

I'm up and down on slaxx, but still tchill is a pretty good wagon.

[Persivul]

That's L-1

In case this gets hammered, my short list of targets for tonight is Roster and Junk.

[Persivul]

Aight time to not be a sack of shit

To not be a sack of shit, simply do this:

VOTE: Bujaber

[Persivul]

My vote today will be on sasha

Yeah OK.

or rosterfoster

Nah, sasha or bujaber.

[Persivul]

Hey everyone, I'm back from my trade show and will get caught up later this evening.

I want to reread before I vote, but a quick search shows tchill never mentioned Gamma and Gamma never mentioned tchill, so that reinforces my feeling that Gamma is scum.

Gamma can wait. The cool kids are voting Bujaber.

[Persivul]

I’m scumreading Sash again, especially if tchill flips red here.

ebwop, meant to quote above, was searching for "scum" while ISO-ing slaxx..

I saw that as well, but TBF he backpedaled on that in the next post.

[Persivul]

@percy: why bujaber?

He talks about methodology rather than employing it. Bunch of weak-ass semi-reads with no follow up.

what do you think of gamma?

Frequent lynchbait. I can't read her myself - ever, not just in this game. She's better for an investigation than a lynch.

[Persivul]

i cant see what's scummy with buj

He talks about methodology rather than employing it. Bunch of weak-ass semi-reads with no follow up.

[Persivul]

Let's get some intent on Blu. Assuming this goes through, I'm targeting sash tonight.

[Persivul]

Let's get some intent on Blu. Assuming this goes through, I'm targeting sash tonight.

??? Eh What are you again?
UNVOTE:

None of your business. I made a target declaration yesterday and led a scum lynch, so you're unvoting over that statement because...?

[Persivul]

What is it called when people intentionally change your name to belittle you?

Once I can dismiss as a typo, but it's been at least 3 times now by 2 different players.

And they missed the most obvious one...

[Persivul]

What was tour target declaration? Your "target sugesstions"?

337

[Persivul]

No, ChunkoJunk, that was my personal target list. Don't ask for what, I'm not telling!

[Persivul]

Go right ahead, FunkyChin. I didn't post it so that people WOULDN'T note it.

[Persivul]

How often have you seen scum actually quickhammer? Seems like mostly a myth in my experience.

[Persivul]

In a 13 player game, is 2 or 3 scum standard?

3

[Persivul]

LOL, that was to me? I'm not color blind.

[Persivul]

Honestly, add Sashaddin to my confident town reads. I just can't see this slot as anything other than newer town.

I think you're being premature. What meta have you done? I played in a game where he was scum and he did fine. Made it to lylo.

[Persivul]

I thought you were town reading him off his meta earlier

Nope.

Do you have a link to that game?

Nope.

[Persivul]

I don't think it's sash either, based on meta. How about.....

Huh

Forgot about that. It's changed. This game he's not like either his town or scum meta.

[Persivul]

Hol up why is Buj at L-1, I don’t recall a lot of people suspecting him?

^Cheap-ass excuse for a prodge.

RTFT

[Persivul]

I will try to get back to my old self again. Last month, I had a lot more of personal stuff going on than I expected, so a lot of unused moments went somewhere else than Mafia.

Seems like you're saying

I'm playing worse now because I have MORE time for mafia

.

[Persivul]

Wagon more likely died just because there's a lot of time left in phase.

[Persivul]

And it didn't die, it just faded a little.

[Persivul]

Yeah, nap time's over. Now that everyone is refreshed, let's lynch Bojangles.

[Persivul]

Really getting tired of Junk's flip-flops.

[Persivul]

Before we massclaim, why don't we just wait and see if someone claims a town role that explains the no kill?

[Persivul]

Last scum is within [HC, Flubber, Gamma, Sash] imo

People who weren't on either lynch:

HC, Gamma, Sash

[Persivul]

I can catch fake claims

Huh?

[Persivul]

VOTE: Flubbernugget

Suck it mod, VC's obsolete already!

[Persivul]

Eh. Let’s go Flubber > Hasch > Sash unless there are any objections

This is fine.

[Persivul]

There are three of

Babysitter
Follower
Voyer
Rolecop
Vig

In the game.

I tend to believe this as I'm one of the above.

It's pretty much a scum claim.

You need to full claim now, or I'm good with lynching this.

[Persivul]

He isn't lying in his claim. I can confirm that.

But why does town have an informed role about town PRs?

It doesn't.

However, does Goon + 1-shot Encryptor + Informed Goon make sense balance wise?

Don't go down that route. It's a waste of time.

[Persivul]

I jailed flubber last night. Probably blocked scum making kill. Was hoping he'd claim an action so I'd be 100% but no luck.

If he's mafia, he's a goon, I role copped him last night

All I got was "Night 2 Informed"

Hold on guys. I gotta go read the wiki, but I thought an investigation got no result on someone who's in jail.

[Persivul]

NM: "Some Jailkeepers not only protect their target from all kills, but also render its target untargetable by all other actions during that Night. This variant is also known as Alien."

[Persivul]

See I had some doubt because if there's a babysitter it's not 100% that it was from me.

Rule this out.

There's no way scum kills flubber last night though, so I think we can rule that one out.

Yeah, scum don't have a lot of mislynches, and flub's one of them. The no kill is because flub's the last scum.

[Persivul]

I'm a disloyal babysitter. I discussed it with mod, and as I understand it:

- If I target town, nothing happens, because disloyal
- If I target scum, they'd be protected from a town vig, BUT if I were killed, the target would be killed too.

I announced targets because:

- If I targeted scum, they might NK me, thus killing one of their own.
- If I died but no scum died, my announced target would be pretty much conftown.

Last night I target sash.

[Persivul]

This is getting fucked up. Might be a 4th scum or a traitor for balance.

[Persivul]

Flub, if you're town (big if), you know we have to lynch you today, so don't get in the way of discussion.

[Persivul]

BTW, I recently played a micro reviewed by schadd (as this one was) in which town was overpowered. I was scum and pretty pissed about it. I was told town-sided games are the current meta because towns supposedly suck.

[Persivul]

VOTE: Flubber

I'm struggling to figure out who 4th scum or traitor is if there is one.

First sash, then Gamma.

[Persivul]

wait I realize i just called roster conf town

but is there a world where this is a desperate and clever scum JK play

WTF, he doesn't have a vote on him, why would he make a desperate gambit? If he's scum, he's already sitting pretty for busing blojobber.

[Persivul]

People are overthinking things now. KISS. There's no alternative to Flubber dying today. If he flips town we deal with it tomorrow. Haschel, AFAIC you can go ahead and hammer.

[Persivul]

Yea, my mind is just going wild with theories because this feels too easy

It's the nature of towns to change. When I'm scum and I take heat early in a phase, it makes me happy because I know it's unlikely to last all day. So let's avoid that and just kill Flubber.

[Persivul]

THREAD LINKS

Dead Thread

Mafia Thread

Mod Thread

Can you open these please?

[Persivul]

How is this game balanced?

It isn't. We deserve cred because our PRs only nabbed us one scum anyway, but it doesn't look balanced to me. That's current site meta.

[Persivul]

mod can you open the mod thread or post full list of roles? Tx.

[Persivul]

Thirded. Nice to have a mod opening phases in a timely manner and providing VCs. Well done!