[FEBRUARY CHALLENGE] Voting!
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implosion he/himPolymath
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Inspired by the coalition:
In coalition, town has a 1/6 chance of winning immediately, and if they fail they have to play a game that would normally have a 30% EV; here that chance is 1/8 and the penalty is a setup that would normally have a 16% EV. In exchange, the town gains a bunch of free information on day one, namely a bunch of pairs that can't be scum together (overall, there would normally be 220 possible scumteams, but with this info 60 of those teams are impossible). I'd expect this is still very significantly scumsided in theory, but I think the existence of topics for hunting/etc and the organized nature of the information town gets to swing things a reasonable amount.
If still considered scumsided, the easiest modification is to add a second chance for exoneration (and possibly cut to 10p to compensate).- Jingle
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Jingle For Whom the Bell Trolls
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I very much doubt that's scumsided. If a member of a pair flips scum, the other member is conftown, so you have a 1/4 chance of an IC that can't be dealt with after the first lynch. I have a feeling that the observed winrate will be a bit above EV as well.
Also, you might want to put something in the setup about ending it early if a town win is inevitable (two scum lynches whose partners are living and town has 2 confirmed players to scum's remaining one.)This is a Parachute.- implosion
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implosion he/himPolymath
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The setup isn't nightless, and scum have a nightkill starting night 1. So the setup will become 3:8 mountainous, modulo the additional information. Scum will likely kill any conftown.In post 26, Jingle wrote:I very much doubt that's scumsided. If a member of a pair flips scum, the other member is conftown, so you have a 1/4 chance of an IC that can't be dealt with after the first lynch. I have a feeling that the observed winrate will be a bit above EV as well.
Also, you might want to put something in the setup about ending it early if a town win is inevitable (two scum lynches whose partners are living and town has 2 confirmed players to scum's remaining one.)- RadiantCowbells
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House Party
3 mafia goons
11 vanilla townies
Each day before lynching town must vote on an arbitrary sized set of players to be sent to party B instead of party A
If there is no majority it will be randed, however parties included by multiple players grow in odds more than linearly: 1 vote is one chit, 2 votes becomes 3 votes becomes 9 chits
If a scum kill requires the player to cross party lines they will be publicly confirmed as scum2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.- northsidegal
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northsidegal Survivor
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can you elaborate on this?In post 28, RadiantCowbells wrote:If there is no majority it will be randed, however parties included by multiple players grow in odds more than linearly: 1 vote is one chit, 2 votes becomes 3 votes becomes 9 chits- RadiantCowbells
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OkIn post 29, northsidegal wrote:
can you elaborate on this?In post 28, RadiantCowbells wrote:If there is no majority it will be randed, however parties included by multiple players grow in odds more than linearly: 1 vote is one chit, 2 votes becomes 3 votes becomes 9 chits
So say 7 players alive
3 voting one set
2 voting another
And 1 voting 2 more
There would be a random from 1-15
1-9 first set
10-13 second set
14 third 15 fourth2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.- northsidegal
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ah, so what matters is the number of players voting the party, not the number of people in the party. gotcha. still not sure i entirely understand, but the setup is interesting!- RadiantCowbells
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i think a major strength for town is the ability to sequester away a few locktown. that messes up scum's normal nightkills which usually tends to raise in-practice EV- Jingle
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Jingle For Whom the Bell Trolls
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Oh. I misunderstood then.In post 27, implosion wrote:
The setup isn't nightless, and scum have a nightkill starting night 1. So the setup will become 3:8 mountainous, modulo the additional information. Scum will likely kill any conftown.In post 26, Jingle wrote:I very much doubt that's scumsided. If a member of a pair flips scum, the other member is conftown, so you have a 1/4 chance of an IC that can't be dealt with after the first lynch. I have a feeling that the observed winrate will be a bit above EV as well.
Also, you might want to put something in the setup about ending it early if a town win is inevitable (two scum lynches whose partners are living and town has 2 confirmed players to scum's remaining one.)
Is the set made public? Like, I get that if it's a majority it's obvious, but do you tell the players what the randomly chosen group is if no majority is reached?RadiantCowbells wrote:Each day before lynching town must vote on an arbitrary sized set of players to be sent to party B instead of party AThis is a Parachute.- BNL
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BNL Micro Madness
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RC so your setup is:
Every Day, town will vote for a group of players into a Party. Voted players form a party, and the others form a different party. If there is no majority vote, this will go by modified plurality voting: a party voted by X players will have a relative X^2 chance of being selected. Each party lasts for only one Day/Night cycle, and for the next cycle players vote for new parties.
Town will lynch a player every Day.
Finally, if a scum from one party kills someone in the other party, the killing scum will be revealed.
Is this the setup?- BNL
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Yes it's publicIn post 34, Jingle wrote:
Oh. I misunderstood then.In post 27, implosion wrote:
The setup isn't nightless, and scum have a nightkill starting night 1. So the setup will become 3:8 mountainous, modulo the additional information. Scum will likely kill any conftown.In post 26, Jingle wrote:I very much doubt that's scumsided. If a member of a pair flips scum, the other member is conftown, so you have a 1/4 chance of an IC that can't be dealt with after the first lynch. I have a feeling that the observed winrate will be a bit above EV as well.
Also, you might want to put something in the setup about ending it early if a town win is inevitable (two scum lynches whose partners are living and town has 2 confirmed players to scum's remaining one.)
Is the set made public? Like, I get that if it's a majority it's obvious, but do you tell the players what the randomly chosen group is if no majority is reached?RadiantCowbells wrote:Each day before lynching town must vote on an arbitrary sized set of players to be sent to party B instead of party A
And yes BNLLast edited by RadiantCowbells on Thu Feb 07, 2019 2:54 am, edited 1 time in total.2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.-
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Let me check the probabilities...
Day 1 - 1/4 chance of lynching Mafia in the Council.
1/5 chance of lynching Mafia outside the Council.
Best strategy is probably lynching outside the Council if the Council seems to be equally scummy(or towny) and to lynch inside the Council if not. If the Council is not distinguishable well then Mafia probably has to use their Nightkill on the Council sooner or later - which only helps town.
Sounds good!
Edit: Actually it is probably best for the (Town) Council to NOT claim day 1. This ensures if the town lynches off council that the Mafia does not know who is on the council without help from the traitor - and that can be spotted. Additionally lynching off the council has to be done anyways!- BuJaber
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The entire town can choose to never dictate targets for their guidees in which case the game effectively becomes nightless.- Jingle
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Jingle For Whom the Bell Trolls
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The pairings only occur once pre-game. So if someone is lynched their guidee becomes vanilla. They won't know though because that information wouldn't be revealed in the flip. It is possible therefore for scum to effectively have no nightkill depending on who dies when. Balance wise I think it shouldn't be a big deal given the high number of scum. If I come up with a more elegant approach I'll change this though.In post 40, Jingle wrote:Hmm... What happens when a person is lynched? Does the ring shrink or is that person's guidee vanilla?
And how is the pairing determined? Is it forced to be one circle or can two separate loops form?
I'm not sure I understand the 2nd question. But the guide pairing is independent from the guidee pairing. A player could have two different players or the same player. In other words player A guides player B. Player B may guide player A or may guide player C. You just can't have:
-mafia guiding mafia
-one player guiding two players
-two players guiding the same player
I'm sure someone smarter than me has a better way of randomizing it but the easiest way I came up with is to randomize the playerlist normally, then number them 1-12, where players 1-4 are scum and then you pair 1 with 12, 2 with 11 etc. That's one pairing. Then randomize just the townies (no. 5-12), re-number them, and pair the whole list again the same way.- Irrelephant11
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Been thinking about thisIn post 23, Jingle wrote:I kinda prefer the WIFOM of letting scum choose the lovers, but it's probably a little bit scum siding. True love (And I think your numbers by extrapolation, but I'm not checking atm) is exactly 50% EV, so you might need to add something to town to make up for it/further distinguish the setup.
Last edited by Irrelephant11 on Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:45 am, edited 1 time in total.- Jingle
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First, you only have to pair once. If Player A guides Player B, Player B is guided by player A. Second, you already answered the question by saying the same person could be guide and guidee of another player, but my question was whether you were forcing a complete loop, such that if you travel from guide to guidee from one player you go through every player before reaching your starting point.In post 41, BuJaber wrote:
The pairings only occur once pre-game. So if someone is lynched their guidee becomes vanilla. They won't know though because that information wouldn't be revealed in the flip. It is possible therefore for scum to effectively have no nightkill depending on who dies when. Balance wise I think it shouldn't be a big deal given the high number of scum. If I come up with a more elegant approach I'll change this though.In post 40, Jingle wrote:Hmm... What happens when a person is lynched? Does the ring shrink or is that person's guidee vanilla?
And how is the pairing determined? Is it forced to be one circle or can two separate loops form?
I'm not sure I understand the 2nd question. But the guide pairing is independent from the guidee pairing. A player could have two different players or the same player. In other words player A guides player B. Player B may guide player A or may guide player C. You just can't have:
-mafia guiding mafia
-one player guiding two players
-two players guiding the same player
I'm sure someone smarter than me has a better way of randomizing it but the easiest way I came up with is to randomize the playerlist normally, then number them 1-12, where players 1-4 are scum and then you pair 1 with 12, 2 with 11 etc. That's one pairing. Then randomize just the townies (no. 5-12), re-number them, and pair the whole list again the same way.
I feel like massclaiming guidee's D1 and then never targetting is probably the highest EV for the setup because it's mountainous nightless with a bunch of impossible pairs. I think you should consider leaving the option of mafia pairing as a chance so that you can't confirm town with a scumlynch.This is a Parachute.- BuJaber
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If you only paired once wouldn't that guarantee that all guidance is mutual? If player A guides player B I want there to be a chance that player B guides plyer A or someone else. So the pairing is only one way, but you do it twice to get both guide and guidee assigned.In post 43, Jingle wrote:First, you only have to pair once. If Player A guides Player B, Player B is guided by player A.- Jingle
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Say I have 6 players, A B C D E F G.
A Guides B
B Guides E
C Guides A
D Guides F
E Guides C
F Guides D
I don't have to randomize again because the Guidee's are controlled by who is guiding them. C, for example, is guided by E, so C is Guidee to E. Also, you can fully randomize the setup with 2 list randomizations.
First randomization is numbered 1-12. 1-4 are scum. Second randomization #1 is removed from the list. The first four town names are guided by 1-4. The other seven names are assigned in order, but if a player would be assigned to themselves they are instead assigned to the next person in line. Player one is guided by the last person out. This gives a slightly > chance for a player to be assigned the player after them in the list, but not enough of one to be significant and the list wouldn't be published to abuse anyway.This is a Parachute.- Jingle
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Giving RC's some thought I think it's probably scumsided. The mechanic feels ~tracker. Similarly to a tracker, the results aren't conclusive for innocents until you've lynched all but one scum. There is very little potential for early guilties. There is no conftown power role. There IS a high potential for late game revelations that turn the early information into useful info.
Seems like it'd be crazy complicated to calculate EV though.This is a Parachute.- BBmolla
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That means if the Town puts two people into the Wilderness they vote each other and both get lynched, correct?In post 48, BBmolla wrote:If there is a unanimous vote on a player in the Wilderness (excluding the player being voted), that player is lynched at the end of the night phase.
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