Starcraft Mafia: 2 -- Game Over!

[pinturicchio]

I think mewtaph is scum. Let us discuss that

I think that too. I'm having problems between MS or ProFlavor being the partner.

[Michael Scott]

Still not really.
Actually incredibly worried that your push for a massclaim was just to out roles like Chara's so that scum would have a roadmap to victory and you bussed JJH to distract from something else.

What do you think he’d be distracting us from? I’m also a bit paranoid but there’s some crazy wifom involved if it really is a bus.

2 BP’s is still feasible imo, but with the fact that 3 claims came out and 1 flipped scum I can’t help but wonder if scum deliberately had 2 members claim BP thinking a bus on one cleared the other and weren’t expecting an actual Town BP claim to happen.

What you are referring to is the fake claim + fake counterclaim gambit, where two scum both make the same fakeclaim in hopes that when one of them is lynched, the other falsely becomes "confirmed town". But remember here that the claim order was 1) Jjh claimed BP first (see: post 2766), 2) T&L(Firebringer) claimed BP second (see: post 2769), and 3) we claimed BP third (see: post 2879). So if we were scum with Jjh, we only get the most out of doing something like that if no townie claimed BP, because no one is going to doubt that there is one town-aligned BP in a 14 player game. So why would we fakeclaim BP after 1) our scumbuddy Jjh fakeclaimed BP and 2) T&L(Firebringer), a townie, claimed BP? You mentioned that if we are scum we

"weren’t expecting an actual town BP claim to happen"

, but it literally happened

BEFORE

we claimed BP, in your hypothetical scenario where we are scum with Jjh and T&L(Firebinger) is town. So if we were scum with Jjh and our plan was to do that gambit to get one of us townlocked, we could have easily aborted the gambit as soon as we saw that T&L(Firebringer) claimed BP after Jjh claimed BP.

And besides all of that, the whole point of the fake claim + fake counterclaim gambit is to claim a role that town is unlikely to have in the first place – that’s the whole point of the gambit. Scum can’t reasonably expect there to be no town-aligned BP roles.

This is a 14-player game with 11 town vs 3 scum. Two town-aligned BP roles sounds right to me.

On the other hand, Almost Chara's flip (town-aligned anti-air unit) 100% confirms that there is a scum-aligned air unit, because otherwise their role would be pointless. You and Mewtaph both claimed Zerg air units. Jjh's fakeclaim was "Zerg hatchery", and his actual role was "Terran Command Center". In the Starcraft II game, The Terran Command Center (see: https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Comma ... _the_Void) ) is the Terran equivalent of the Zerg hatchery (see: https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Hatch ... _the_Void)). Both are the main bases of each respective faction. And notice how each nightkill has the flavor of "marine gunfire", and the Terran faction’s basic unit is the marine (see: https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Marin ... _the_Void)). And Almost Chara's role PM talks about scum air units like observers (from the Protoss faction; see: https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Obser ... _the_Void)) and Ravens (from the Terran faction; see: https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Raven ... _the_Void)). So clearly, the flavor in this game is that zerg = town, and scum = definitely Terran and possibly Protoss as well (though we’ve only seen a Terran scum role and a Terran nightkill flavor so far).

With

JJh's actual role (Terran Command Center) being the Terran equivalent of his fakeclaim (Zerg Hatchery)

, it stands to reason that each scum is likely to be given a fakeclaim that has some correspondence to their real role.

So in other words, there is a scum air-unit, they are either a Terran air unit or a Protoss air unit, and their fakeclaim is for a Zerg air unit

. And besides all of that, in my opinion it's extremely unlikely that there would be three-town aligned air units, and that the scum air unit would fakeclaim a ground unit like the zergling (see: https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Zergl ... _the_Void)).

I am 100% certain that one of you or Mewtaph is scum, so today should be about sorting the two of you.

- Volxen

[Michael Scott]

I think mewtaph is scum. Let us discuss that

I think that too. I'm having problems between MS or ProFlavor being the partner.

I'm getting tired of dealing with the paranoia. Either make a scumcase beyond "They bussed jjh927 to clear themselves" and argue that, or stop the tunneling.

-Auro

[pinturicchio]

welp one of the reasons I was paranoid about MS was that Volxen stopped posting and I think that Volxen's posts back on D1 were scummier than Auro's so I thought he was avoiding the thread. Scratch that now.

[pinturicchio]

I think mewtaph is scum. Let us discuss that

I think that too. I'm having problems between MS or ProFlavor being the partner.

I'm getting tired of dealing with the paranoia. Either make a scumcase beyond "They bussed jjh927 to clear themselves" and argue that, or stop the tunneling.

-Auro

You saying there's probably no strongman pinged me, 'cause it's like saying "there are definately two BPs in the game". If there's no strongman, then I think there's not two BPs, and I think you're the more likely lying since now we know that the scumteam have fakeclaims and yours sound faker than brass'.

[Michael Scott]

I am 100% certain that one of you or Mewtaph is scum, so today should be about sorting the two of you.

Volxen, feel free to post your Alchemist case now, I don't think waiting is gonna give us anything significant.

I feel Varsoon should be able to confirm if the point has merit.

[Michael Scott]

You saying there's probably no strongman pinged me, 'cause it's like saying "there are definately two BPs in the game". If there's no strongman, then I think there's not two BPs

There's also a vigi, also limited shot BP, also no Strongman is just a possibility - more probable that AC were killed for reads.

[pinturicchio]

You saying there's probably no strongman pinged me, 'cause it's like saying "there are definately two BPs in the game". If there's no strongman, then I think there's not two BPs

There's also a vigi, also limited shot BP, also no Strongman is just a possibility - more probable that AC were killed for reads.

Ah, the vig, didn't think about that. And Volxen's post is wooooow impressive so yeah back to your regular news.

[pinturicchio]

JJH has been lynched in a vicious zergling attack! He was...

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Novice Mafia Rolecop

Welcome to Starcraft 2 Mafia!

You are a Terran Command Center, a

Novice Mafia Rolecop

. Your scummates are [always glad I remember to redact this part]

You are novice (landing). Night one, choose where you would like to be in the player list. Night one you land there and build your comsat station. You will not be able to move in the player list after this.

"Comsat Station" (Rolecop) -- Each night after the first you may conduct a Scanner Sweep on one player in the list. This will reveal their role card to you, although any informed status information will be redacted.

At night your faction may decide to kill someone, but you must determine who will carry out the kill. If you are the one to perform the kill, the target will be assaulted by marine fire.

You are a ground unit. You are a building.

Win:

You win when the mafia control a parity in the town or this can't be prevented from happening.

Game thread here: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=78296

You have access to the Scum PT which is here: [yeah should probably redact this part too]

Confirm:

Please confirm by responding with your alignment and role name

You have a fakeclaim as below

I was a drone who had to choose a place to build a hatchery N1, and I wanted #7 but apparently was put in #8. Can't move after that.

Now I'm a building and a bulletproof one at that.

Compiled a list of claims and revealed roles so far; If I missed something please correct it.

Jjh's fakeclaim was "Zerg hatchery", and his actual role was "Terran Command Center". In the Starcraft II game, The Terran Command Center is the Terran equivalent of the Zerg hatchery.

With

JJh's actual role (Terran Command Center) being the Terran equivalent of his fakeclaim (Zerg Hatchery)

[Firebringer]

so we gonna do a lynch on mew or what?

[Michael Scott]

Fire, what's your read on ProFlavor/Pint? One of them has to be scum.
Also, are you really sure Alch is town, too? Volxen had a flavor-related point against him, I'll give him some time to post it himself.

[Firebringer]

I have gut townread on pint and no read on anyone else.

I am assuming ur town here because I assume u were the leading force on the jjh yesterday or something.

[Alchemist21]

Still not really.
Actually incredibly worried that your push for a massclaim was just to out roles like Chara's so that scum would have a roadmap to victory and you bussed JJH to distract from something else.

What do you think he’d be distracting us from? I’m also a bit paranoid but there’s some crazy wifom involved if it really is a bus.

2 BP’s is still feasible imo, but with the fact that 3 claims came out and 1 flipped scum I can’t help but wonder if scum deliberately had 2 members claim BP thinking a bus on one cleared the other and weren’t expecting an actual Town BP claim to happen.

What you are referring to is the fake claim + fake counterclaim gambit, where two scum both make the same fakeclaim in hopes that when one of them is lynched, the other falsely becomes "confirmed town". But remember here that the claim order was 1) Jjh claimed BP first (see: post 2766), 2) T&L(Firebringer) claimed BP second (see: post 2769), and 3) we claimed BP third (see: post 2879). So if we were scum with Jjh, we only get the most out of doing something like that if no townie claimed BP, because no one is going to doubt that there is one town-aligned BP in a 14 player game. So why would we fakeclaim BP after 1) our scumbuddy Jjh fakeclaimed BP and 2) T&L(Firebringer), a townie, claimed BP? You mentioned that if we are scum we

"weren’t expecting an actual town BP claim to happen"

, but it literally happened

BEFORE

we claimed BP, in your hypothetical scenario where we are scum with Jjh and T&L(Firebinger) is town. So if we were scum with Jjh and our plan was to do that gambit to get one of us townlocked, we could have easily aborted the gambit as soon as we saw that T&L(Firebringer) claimed BP after Jjh claimed BP.

And besides all of that, the whole point of the fake claim + fake counterclaim gambit is to claim a role that town is unlikely to have in the first place – that’s the whole point of the gambit. Scum can’t reasonably expect there to be no town-aligned BP roles.

This is a 14-player game with 11 town vs 3 scum. Two town-aligned BP roles sounds right to me.

On the other hand, Almost Chara's flip (town-aligned anti-air unit) 100% confirms that there is a scum-aligned air unit, because otherwise their role would be pointless. You and Mewtaph both claimed Zerg air units. Jjh's fakeclaim was "Zerg hatchery", and his actual role was "Terran Command Center". In the Starcraft II game, The Terran Command Center (see: https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Comma ... _the_Void) ) is the Terran equivalent of the Zerg hatchery (see: https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Hatch ... _the_Void)). Both are the main bases of each respective faction. And notice how each nightkill has the flavor of "marine gunfire", and the Terran faction’s basic unit is the marine (see: https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Marin ... _the_Void)). And Almost Chara's role PM talks about scum air units like observers (from the Protoss faction; see: https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Obser ... _the_Void)) and Ravens (from the Terran faction; see: https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Raven ... _the_Void)). So clearly, the flavor in this game is that zerg = town, and scum = definitely Terran and possibly Protoss as well (though we’ve only seen a Terran scum role and a Terran nightkill flavor so far).

With

JJh's actual role (Terran Command Center) being the Terran equivalent of his fakeclaim (Zerg Hatchery)

, it stands to reason that each scum is likely to be given a fakeclaim that has some correspondence to their real role.

So in other words, there is a scum air-unit, they are either a Terran air unit or a Protoss air unit, and their fakeclaim is for a Zerg air unit

. And besides all of that, in my opinion it's extremely unlikely that there would be three-town aligned air units, and that the scum air unit would fakeclaim a ground unit like the zergling (see: https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Zergl ... _the_Void)).

I am 100% certain that one of you or Mewtaph is scum, so today should be about sorting the two of you.

- Volxen

It’s not just you though. There’s a possibility that T&L were pulling that gambit and it’s a possibility I’m having to consider right now.

Also I wouldn’t just assume scum fakeclaims match their real roles with air/ground stuff. We don’t even know what JJ’s mod-provided fakeclaim was so for all we know he just came up with his own rather than use the one the mod gave him.

[Alchemist21]

I have gut townread on pint and no read on anyone else.

I am assuming ur town here because I assume u were the leading force on the jjh yesterday or something.

Fire I’m getting increasingly paranoid about everything right now so if you’re Town I’m gonna need you to help me be sure of it.

[Firebringer]

I have gut townread on pint and no read on anyone else.

I am assuming ur town here because I assume u were the leading force on the jjh yesterday or something.

Fire I’m getting increasingly paranoid about everything right now so if you’re Town I’m gonna need you to help me be sure of it.

what exactly u want from me. I am lazy here and I thought I was sort of cleared from suspicion

[Michael Scott]

ProFlavor moving up, away from Varsoon is really scummy.

Firebringer's slot is definitely town, was before he replaced into it.

One of {Alch, Mew} is scum because it's unlikely for scum to fakeclaim whether they're ground/air *plus* unlikely for all air units to be town.

One of {Pint, ProFlavor} is scum because it firstly makes sense for one of the remaining vanilla claims to be scum, and also because Mew+Alch is clearly not W/W, implying one scum in this.

Anyone disagree on any of the above?

[Michael Scott]

@Firebringer, Varsoon: Pintu is the highest priority read right now. Can you solidify your read on that slot, beyond "gut"?

[Mewtaph]

@Michael Scott: Just jjh's flip information.

At night your faction may decide to kill someone, but you must determine who will carry out the kill. If you are the one to perform the kill, the target will be assaulted by marine fire.

I don't think that dragging ProFlavor away from Varsoon would've forced the mafia team to take any suboptimal kills or prevent any night kill options after that was revealed. So the only thing I could really do at that point was try to keep my scumreads isolated from the rest of the playerlist below Almost Chara while they were still alive at day end (it doesn't matter now because they died).

[Michael Scott]

Mew, tell me your preferred lynch between Pintu and ProFlavor, and detail why.

[Firebringer]

@Firebringer, Varsoon: Pintu is the highest priority read right now. Can you solidify your read on that slot, beyond "gut"?

Can you expand on why pintu is a high priority here? He is the only one that is gut pinging me as town right now.

Alch questioning of me felt gut scummy and you saying only one scum of him and Mew and I don't know why those two can't be scum together beyond role mechanic reasons which aren't convincing to me.

[Firebringer]

Varsoon/Michael Scott/Me/Pintu all are town imo.
Can't we just take this final four and win the game?

Doesn't feel complicated at all here.

[Firebringer]

I would prefer a lynch order of Mewptaph/Alchemist/Prof right now, but I haven't even really dissected Prof to any level of degree.

I just skimmed ISOs of Mew and Alchemist.

[Michael Scott]

We have to figure who's town in {ProFlavor, Pintu, Alchemist, Mew}.

Pintu is the closest to a townread from that four, but if I take him to be town, we simply lynch the other three - correct. That's why I want everyone to be confident in their reads on the slot.

Alch and Mew seem like unlikely scum buddies also because of their aggressive 1v1 in D1, double-iso them and tell me if you feel like it's scum theater.

[Michael Scott]

Reasons for Pintu being town:
1. His pushes on us, he keeps retracting - Organic, doesn't seem agenda-driven
2. URAP2 hard townread Pintu and died, you don't kill obvtown just cause obvtown if they wrongly townread you
3. His pushing jjh the way he did, and suspicion that we were drawing a lynch away from jjh - Conviction that I don't see coming from scum in that position
4. Had jjh927's slot in his preferred lynches in D1 consistently

[Michael Scott]

If we can all agree on Pintu town, we should go ProFlavor->Mewtaph->Alchemist.