I do not think that ProFlavor was in danger of being lynched there and while yes being pushed to L-1 is telling, it was pushed to that point because of a naked Kokichi vote essentially (which also doesn't particularly make anyone want to vote the wagon, just turned off by it). Also placing someone at L-2 and knowing whether the lynch is favoured against STW or ProFlavor is within the realms of something the mafia can predict the result of. I do not think there was more pressure on ProFlavor over STW in terms of lynch viability being pushed through to its finish.
With posts like 682 it was telegraphed very early on that Varsoon would push on STW because his vig failed, and it was pretty clear that was what he wanted to be pushed that day. This is concrete reasoning. A wagon on ProFlavor is not that concrete if you know that someone is actively pushing against it and appears to have solid reason for doing so. A post before Alchemist voted ProFlavor, he questioned how the wagon came into fruition.
--
Spoiler: Things against a me-ProFlavor scum team but why ProFlavor is still scum - STW quotes
In post 1295, Shoshin the worst wrote:@ProFlavor talk me through what the rationale of seeing those Mewtaph posts and winding up at "yeah wow Mewtaph is town, I'm going to vote STW instead"
That was the strangest reaction I've seen ITT so far. His reasoning isn't even slightly towny.
In post 1392, ProFlavor wrote:The fact that Varsoon, Mewtaph, and I are the three on Shoshin right now shows me that this is more than likely a scum slot.
Varsoon is hard town here. I’ve recently gotten to witness directly both townVarsoon and scumVarsoon, and really I’ve known Varsoon for like 4 and a half years now, so I’m pretty happy with my read there.
Mewtaph is town for the wagon composition. Mustang and Nancy pushing onto a townie the way they did makes total sense, and then people, and scumShoshin, decide to jump on to Mewtaph.
This also semi incriminates Jjh slot, but I’ll let them catchup first.
I realize my slot will probably be tried to use as a counterwagon option after pushing Shoshone like this, so unless you wanna try to 1v1 me and out explain the damn awful play it would have been to let Mewtaph live in this situation as scum...well, go for it. I could have just kept not playing the game and allowing Profii to play in that situation. Mewtaph likely would have been killed.
So there, Mewtaph and I would have to be scum together AND you’d have to think I would Super obviously protect them in this position AND I would hard town read Varsoon, a solid player who I know would very much end up tunneling me if he thinks I’m scum.
Long story short, Only town are on the Shoshin wagon right now. Bet.
Hrrrrrkkkkkkkkk
This is still confbiased or agenda driven thinking....
I don't see how you just loljump to the conclusion that because you townread the entire wagon it must be on scum. that's a nonsensical conclusion and is actually heavily inconsistent with scumplay (you can't think both of our scumbuddies would just be hanging back while we go down surely. this is an optimal softbus/distance gamestate and it's radiant). an all town wagon us here is town indicative via vca and you're not convincing me on anything else.
I also don't townread the full wagon and don't understand why you do.
But your bizarre conclusions are more of a problem.
Going for tiered empathy on our voters it's basically
Mewtaph >>> Varsoon > ProFlavor > Kokichi
It kinda checks out for Mewtaph to be like AW NOT THIS SHIT AGAIN as town and vote us. I can't decide if the freezing in real-time thing is more likely to come from scum or town if I'm completely honest. From one perspective it does suck to be bombed with questions and ridicule as scum who feels like you're doing well so reacting with like "ew you suck" because I'm not townreading him. but on the flip side this COULD be a genuine considered reaction given last time I reached out to him I was going for a last minute pocket before lolhammering him.
Maybe scum!Mewtaph thinks harder about the optics of not talking to us at all in real-time, putting us down then disappearing? I don't really know, anyone wanna check his scum meta or...?
Varsoon's push on us is offensively outside the realm of common sense and I've spoken about it a lot but I think the fact I'm genuinely annoyed by it says something
Pro's vote on us is frankly pockety and I've documented my wall of issues with the nonsense they're spewing.
Kokichi's play vs. {AC, us} is transparent self defence and...isn't towny....
Above are appropriate indicators that I resonated with STW.
Their directed attention away from me towards ProFlavor I feel was particularly telling that they were shifting away from the idea that I was necessarily scum as the day progressed and that ProFlavor was the one that came out looking worse out of the exchange.
Shoshin the worst wrote:@ProFlavor talk me through what the rationale of seeing those Mewtaph posts and winding up at "yeah wow Mewtaph is town, I'm going to vote STW instead"
That was the strangest reaction I've seen ITT so far.
I can see how players can reach a town read on me early on, that's not necessarily the issue. I think a big issue with ProFlavor being town was how quickly and confidently ProFlavor townread me in a way that felt pretty much out of left field, an undeveloped send for aid. The way ProFlavor went about it made it very clear they wanted to tie themselves to me. It just didn't work particularly well for me in terms of me buying into ProFlavor being town with the whole VCA justification of "wagon is town". It felt like flashbomb reasoning that don't really explain the development of his defense with answers to STW like "Of course his answers will be awkward, he's being wagoned" and "our VCA is STW's wagon is all town, so Mew is town, if you disagree then you need to explain to us why". There are some other issues with ProFlavor's slot like the EOD D1 read list with the whole "if Flavor wants" thing. STW also points out how it is radiant for soft bus/distance game state and I agree because all scum needed to do was wait for time to tick and they would get a lynch no matter what.
In post 1477, Shoshin the worst wrote:I don't see how you just loljump to the conclusion that because you townread the entire wagon it must be on scum. that's a nonsensical conclusion and is actually heavily inconsistent with scumplay (you can't think both of our scumbuddies would just be hanging back while we go down surely.
this is an optimal softbus/distance gamestate and it's radiant
). an all town wagon us here is town indicative via vca and you're not convincing me on anything else.
I agree strongly with the bolded and posts like 1871 afterwards don't really address what STW is saying in any meaningful way that could result in change. This is when they asked openly for people to challenge them on their reasoning, which STW did, so them discrediting/ignoring rather than engaging with STW was pretty scummy.
In post 3056, Krazy wrote:JJH has been lynched in a vicious zergling attack! He was...
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
In post 2766, jjh927 wrote:I was a drone who had to choose a place to build a hatchery N1, and I wanted #7 but apparently was put in #8. Can't move after that.
Compiled a list of claims and revealed roles so far; If I missed something please correct it.
In post 3076, Michael Scott wrote:
Jjh's fakeclaim was "Zerg hatchery", and his actual role was "Terran Command Center". In the Starcraft II game, The Terran Command Center is the Terran equivalent of the Zerg hatchery.
With
JJh's actual role (Terran Command Center) being the Terran equivalent of his fakeclaim (Zerg Hatchery)
In post 3135, Varsoon wrote:Oh, was Zerg Hatchery his fake claim but Michael Scott slipped by saying it when it hasn't been posted anywhere in the game thread?
Oh, you mean our assumption that when he said he was a drone/hatchery, we assumed that was the fakeclaim given to him? Why is that not a reasonable assumption to make?
"You are the Joker of mafia players" - Oversoul
"last time I was scum with Firebringer
his first post in the scum PT was "yes I rolled scum!"
I decided to post "haha just don't post that in the main thread", but to get up to date on the main thread first.
His first post in the main thread was "yes I rolled scum!" -popsofctown
Yeah sure, "assumption". Look at the wording of 2766 and then the wording on 3076. Also in your compiled list of claims it said "Drone-->Building" so I'm pretty damn sure you thought the fakeclaim was posted by Krazy and you put the name on thread after jjh flipped.
In post 3140, pinturicchio wrote:Yeah sure, "assumption". Look at the wording of 2766 and then the wording on 3076. Also in your compiled list of claims it said "Drone-->Building" so I'm pretty damn sure you thought the fakeclaim was posted by Krazy and you put the name on thread after jjh flipped.
"You are the Joker of mafia players" - Oversoul
"last time I was scum with Firebringer
his first post in the scum PT was "yes I rolled scum!"
I decided to post "haha just don't post that in the main thread", but to get up to date on the main thread first.
His first post in the main thread was "yes I rolled scum!" -popsofctown
Umm, that's not a slip. It's pretty clear that he used his fakeclaim during the massclaim, and even though the fakeclaim wasn't provided with the flip, it's really likely that the one he mentioned was the fakeclaim. There's still a small chance he "came up with his own fakeclaim instead" but I seriously doubt that's the case given 1. There's no reason to, and 2. His general effort levels this game.
In post 3143, Michael Scott wrote:Umm, that's not a slip. It's pretty clear that he used his fakeclaim during the massclaim, and even though the fakeclaim wasn't provided with the flip, it's really likely that the one he mentioned was the fakeclaim. There's still a small chance he "came up with his own fakeclaim instead" but I seriously doubt that's the case given 1. There's no reason to, and 2. His general effort levels this game.
I'm talking about knowing the exact name of the fakeclaim, not if it was his fakeclaim or not.
"You are the Joker of mafia players" - Oversoul
"last time I was scum with Firebringer
his first post in the scum PT was "yes I rolled scum!"
I decided to post "haha just don't post that in the main thread", but to get up to date on the main thread first.
His first post in the main thread was "yes I rolled scum!" -popsofctown
In post 3140, pinturicchio wrote:Yeah sure, "assumption". Look at the wording of 2766 and then the wording on 3076. Also in your compiled list of claims it said "Drone-->Building" so I'm pretty damn sure you thought the fakeclaim was posted by Krazy and you put the name on thread after jjh flipped.
VOTE: Michael Scott
I made the list; Volxen made the post using the word "Hatchery" and post-flip was when we even began to consider the flavor solves.
Pedit: We still don't know the exact name is "Zerg Hatchery". Volxen just used that phrase.
"You are the Joker of mafia players" - Oversoul
"last time I was scum with Firebringer
his first post in the scum PT was "yes I rolled scum!"
I decided to post "haha just don't post that in the main thread", but to get up to date on the main thread first.
His first post in the main thread was "yes I rolled scum!" -popsofctown