Starcraft Mafia: 2 -- Game Over!


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Post Post #3250 (ISO) » Fri Feb 08, 2019 5:41 am

Post by Firebringer »

In post 3249, Firebringer wrote:You are going to be flipped by the mod. Who will show us all the PM he gave you.
It will match exactly what you got when you entered the game.
How did I do?
Show
"You are the Joker of mafia players" - Oversoul
"last time I was scum with Firebringer
his first post in the scum PT was "yes I rolled scum!"
I decided to post "haha just don't post that in the main thread", but to get up to date on the main thread first.

His first post in the main thread was "yes I rolled scum!" -popsofctown
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Post Post #3251 (ISO) » Fri Feb 08, 2019 5:43 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

I would equate lots of games together with a better ability to read someone. You, RC, and Gamma are the 3 players who I’ve played with the most and the other 2 definitely have a good track record of reading me.

Maybe the fact we always had the same alignment in the past was just something we took for granted and it hampered our ability to actually read each other? Idk.
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Post Post #3252 (ISO) » Fri Feb 08, 2019 5:54 am

Post by ProFlavor »

In post 3250, Firebringer wrote:
In post 3249, Firebringer wrote:You are going to be flipped by the mod. Who will show us all the PM he gave you.
It will match exactly what you got when you entered the game.
How did I do?
Awful
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Post Post #3253 (ISO) » Fri Feb 08, 2019 5:59 am

Post by Firebringer »

In post 3252, ProFlavor wrote:
In post 3250, Firebringer wrote:
In post 3249, Firebringer wrote:You are going to be flipped by the mod. Who will show us all the PM he gave you.
It will match exactly what you got when you entered the game.
How did I do?
Awful
idk I think i am going to be proven right
Show
"You are the Joker of mafia players" - Oversoul
"last time I was scum with Firebringer
his first post in the scum PT was "yes I rolled scum!"
I decided to post "haha just don't post that in the main thread", but to get up to date on the main thread first.

His first post in the main thread was "yes I rolled scum!" -popsofctown
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Post Post #3254 (ISO) » Fri Feb 08, 2019 6:37 am

Post by Michael Scott »

In post 3087, Alchemist21 wrote:
In post 3076, Michael Scott wrote:
In post 3069, Alchemist21 wrote:
In post 3061, Varsoon wrote:Still not really.
Actually incredibly worried that your push for a massclaim was just to out roles like Chara's so that scum would have a roadmap to victory and you bussed JJH to distract from something else.
What do you think he’d be distracting us from? I’m also a bit paranoid but there’s some crazy wifom involved if it really is a bus.

2 BP’s is still feasible imo, but with the fact that 3 claims came out and 1 flipped scum I can’t help but wonder if scum deliberately had 2 members claim BP thinking a bus on one cleared the other and weren’t expecting an actual Town BP claim to happen.
What you are referring to is the fake claim + fake counterclaim gambit, where two scum both make the same fakeclaim in hopes that when one of them is lynched, the other falsely becomes "confirmed town". But remember here that the claim order was 1) Jjh claimed BP first (see: post ), 2) T&L(Firebringer) claimed BP second (see: post ), and 3) we claimed BP third (see: post ). So if we were scum with Jjh, we only get the most out of doing something like that if no townie claimed BP, because no one is going to doubt that there is one town-aligned BP in a 14 player game. So why would we fakeclaim BP after 1) our scumbuddy Jjh fakeclaimed BP and 2) T&L(Firebringer), a townie, claimed BP? You mentioned that if we are scum we
"weren’t expecting an actual town BP claim to happen"
, but it literally happened
BEFORE
we claimed BP, in your hypothetical scenario where we are scum with Jjh and T&L(Firebinger) is town. So if we were scum with Jjh and our plan was to do that gambit to get one of us townlocked, we could have easily aborted the gambit as soon as we saw that T&L(Firebringer) claimed BP after Jjh claimed BP.

And besides all of that, the whole point of the fake claim + fake counterclaim gambit is to claim a role that town is unlikely to have in the first place – that’s the whole point of the gambit. Scum can’t reasonably expect there to be no town-aligned BP roles.

This is a 14-player game with 11 town vs 3 scum. Two town-aligned BP roles sounds right to me.

On the other hand, Almost Chara's flip (town-aligned anti-air unit) 100% confirms that there is a scum-aligned air unit, because otherwise their role would be pointless. You and Mewtaph both claimed Zerg air units. Jjh's fakeclaim was "Zerg hatchery", and his actual role was "Terran Command Center". In the Starcraft II game, The Terran Command Center (see: https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Comma ... _the_Void) ) is the Terran equivalent of the Zerg hatchery (see: https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Hatch ... _the_Void)). Both are the main bases of each respective faction. And notice how each nightkill has the flavor of "marine gunfire", and the Terran faction’s basic unit is the marine (see: https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Marin ... _the_Void)). And Almost Chara's role PM talks about scum air units like observers (from the Protoss faction; see: https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Obser ... _the_Void)) and Ravens (from the Terran faction; see: https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Raven ... _the_Void)). So clearly, the flavor in this game is that zerg = town, and scum = definitely Terran and possibly Protoss as well (though we’ve only seen a Terran scum role and a Terran nightkill flavor so far).

With
JJh's actual role (Terran Command Center) being the Terran equivalent of his fakeclaim (Zerg Hatchery)
, it stands to reason that each scum is likely to be given a fakeclaim that has some correspondence to their real role.
So in other words, there is a scum air-unit, they are either a Terran air unit or a Protoss air unit, and their fakeclaim is for a Zerg air unit
. And besides all of that, in my opinion it's extremely unlikely that there would be three-town aligned air units, and that the scum air unit would fakeclaim a ground unit like the zergling (see: https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Zergl ... _the_Void)).

I am 100% certain that one of you or Mewtaph is scum, so today should be about sorting the two of you.

- Volxen
It’s not just you though. There’s a possibility that T&L were pulling that gambit and it’s a possibility I’m having to consider right now.

Also I wouldn’t just assume scum fakeclaims match their real roles with air/ground stuff. We don’t even know what JJ’s mod-provided fakeclaim was so for all we know he just came up with his own rather than use the one the mod gave him.
The thing is, T&L(Firebringer) claimed BP (see: post ) just 22 minutes after Jjh claimed BP (see: post ). So if they were scum together pulling the fakeclaim + fake counterclaim gambit, realistically T&L(Firebringer) would want to let a reasonable amount of time go by before "CCing" Jjh to make sure that no townie claimed BP. It's extremely unlikely that scum!T&L(Firebringer) "CC's" scum!Jjh just 22 minutes after Jjh claimed BP. And I also think in general that the BP role is a really bad role to use for the fakeclaim + fake counterclaim gambit, because it's an extremely likely role for town to have.

Why do you think the more likely scenario is that Jjh had a mod-provided fakeclaim that had no correspondence to his actual role (Terran Command Center), and that he decided not to use that mod-provided fakeclaim and instead came up with a fakeclaim that was the Zerg counterpart (Zerg Hatchery) to his actual role? Think about it -- there's a lot of risk to doing that. For one thing, it definitely requires at least somewhat in-depth knowledge of Starcraft lore/gameplay to come up with a good Zerg fakeclaim of your own, which I'm not even sure Jjh has (I don't remember him talking about this anyways). Secondly, even for someone who does have a lot of Starcraft gameplay/lore knowledge, there's the argument that just randomly picking a Zerg unit/building for your fakeclaim is riskier because it might directly conflict or contradict a claim made by an actual townie (e.g., a scum claims ultralisk and then gets CC'd by a townie that is actually an ultralisk). And Jjh claimed before several people other people claimed, so it would be all the more risky for him to do that. And if you look at everyone's claims, no one claimed the same unit/building as another person. And that's the whole point -- the mod-provided fakeclaims are not going to be exactly the same as any of the town roles, as that would make it too easy to narrow down the entire scumteam. Deviating from the mod-provided fakeclaims in favor of coming up with your own fakeclaim just opens you up to unnecessary risk, and I am convinced beyond any doubt that Jjh's fakeclaim (Zerg hatchery) was his mod-provided fakeclaim.

And beyond all of that, there is no denying that there absolutely is a scum-aligned air unit. Almost Chara's flip 100% confirms it. And Varsoon is confirmed town, and we are strongly townreading T&L(Firebringer). Independent of our townread of T&L(Firebringer), as I stated above the theory that scum!T&L(Firebringer) CC's scum!Jjh after only 22 minutes doesn't make sense. And we know that we are town.

Which leaves {Proflavor, Pint, Alchemist, Mewtaph}. A ProFlavor/Pint/Jjh scumteam makes zero sense, because it would mean that two scum (including the scum air unit) both fake claimed town zergling, and that there are really only three town zerglings (STW, URAP2, and Koki). Considering town zergling is the flavor for vanilla townie, I think 4 zerglings/VT's is much more likely than 3 zerglings/VT's. Furthermore, I highly, highly doubt that there are three town aligned air units. Which means that Meph(Nancy and Ari) is one of the Zerg/town air units, one of you or Mewtaph is the other Zerg/town air unit, and the other one is the Terran/scum or Protoss/scum air unit that has a Zerg air unit as your mod-provided fakeclaim.
Which means:


one of {Proflavor, Pint} is scum

one of {Alchemist, Mewtaph} is scum


I’m pretty sure Profii is just scum trolling us here post hammer, and Auro and I are still discussing amongst ourselves who is the wolf between you and Mewtaph.

- Volxen
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Post Post #3255 (ISO) » Fri Feb 08, 2019 6:44 am

Post by Michael Scott »

In post 2766, jjh927 wrote:Go on then-

I was a drone who had to choose a place to
build a
hatchery
N1, and I wanted #7 but apparently was put in #8. Can't move after that.

Now I'm a building and a bulletproof one at that.


So yeah I can't really say I figured out Varsoon's role with just my role PM proficiency. I have crumbed pretty much everything in my role.



Can we not popcorn it? I want Brass next
@Pint, you do realize that Jjh literally claimed that he was a drone that built/turned into a
Hatchery
, right? That's why we said his fakeclaim (Zerg Hatchery) is the Terran equivalent of his actual role (Terran Command Center).

How did you miss that...?
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Post Post #3256 (ISO) » Fri Feb 08, 2019 6:46 am

Post by Michael Scott »

@Volx: That argument has been done and dusted. I suppose there's no need to bring it up again now :P
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Post Post #3257 (ISO) » Fri Feb 08, 2019 6:48 am

Post by Michael Scott »

And @Alchemist, if you are town here then Mewtaph should be 100% confirmed scum from your point of view. If you are scum, then my hypothesis is that you didn't want to push Mewtaph to lynch today because you knew his green flip would confirm that you are scum, and we are not in lylo yet so it's better for you to try to shade other slots (like us or T&L/Firebringer) that wouldn't confirm you as scum if they got lynched and flipped green. That way you can save Mewtaph as the final mislynch that you push in lylo.

- Volxen
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Post Post #3258 (ISO) » Fri Feb 08, 2019 6:51 am

Post by Krazy »

Mod note: u r a person 2's kill flavor should have been "Marine Fire" not "marine gun fire" -- there is no intended flavor difference between these kills.
vote conspiracy
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Post Post #3259 (ISO) » Fri Feb 08, 2019 6:56 am

Post by Krazy »

Votecount 4.1

ProFlavor(4)
~ (15), (65), (35), (12)
-- HAMMER


Not Voting (2): Firebringer(49), Alchemist21(14)

With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch.

Day 4 deadline is in (expired on 2019-02-15 13:14:35)


FLAVOR
Spoiler:
vote conspiracy
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Post Post #3260 (ISO) » Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:02 am

Post by Krazy »

Going into night, the order of players is:

1. pinturicchio
2. Michael Scott (Auro + Volxen Hydra)
3. Varsoon
4. Firebringer
5. Mewtaph
6. Alchemist21

ProFlavor was surrounded by zerglings and cutely gnawed on until death! He was a...

Spoiler:
Image


Spoiler:
Zerg HydraliskWelcome to Starcraft Mafia: 2!

You are a zerg hydralisk, a
town hydralisk
.

While you are very close to a vanilla town, during the night you can move up or down the player list up to one spot. This will resolve after all current night actions have gone through, except actions that might adjust your position.

You are a ground unit.

Win:
You win when the three-man mafia team has been removed.

Game thread here: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=78296

Confirm:
Please confirm by responding with your alignment and role name


You have (expired on 2019-02-10 14:01:58) to submit night actions!
vote conspiracy
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Post Post #3261 (ISO) » Fri Feb 08, 2019 8:49 am

Post by Krazy »

In post 1, Krazy wrote:While you are very close to a vanilla town, during the night you can move up or down the player list up to two spots. This will resolve after all current night actions have gone through, except actions that might adjust your position.
I would like to clarify that in the wording to the sample PM, this could be rewritten as: "Your role is very similar to vanilla town. During the night you can move up or down the player list up to two spots."

It was not my intention to imply that being "close" to a vanilla town was a mechanical requirement for movement and I apologize to any players that were confused by the wording.
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Post Post #3262 (ISO) » Sun Feb 10, 2019 7:32 am

Post by Krazy »

Once upon a time, Firebringer was just the cutest little growlithe in Tarsonis. You might not be familiar with the growlithe population in Tarsonis, but rest assured, there is one, and Firebringer had just the greatest times there. He particularly liked setting leaves on fire and casually resting while the smell of the burning leaves wafted around him. Sometimes he would relax and take a nap while this was all going on.

He was taking just such a nap when the zerg came and abducted him. They took many of the other growlithes too, although they did try to fight the zerg, growlithe vs zergling, arcanine vs hydralisk. But despite their resistance, the zerg took him and they made him bigger, faster, stronger. But most of all bigger. A lot bigger. And covered in armored plating. Also, giant bone tusks erupted from his face.

But what Firebringer most disliked is that the zerg always had him going places and doing things. There wasn't nearly so much of the laying around, resting among the slightly burning leaves, or enjoying their pleasant aroma.

"Attack the command center" this and "find the rest of the terran" that. What was the big rush, anyway?

Besides, it's not like a bunch of terran marines were going to do anything to him. He had big slabs of armored plating.

But what was that, up in the sky?

Interceptors...? But they were fighting the terran, weren't they? Well, that shouldn't matter anyway, it's not like interceptors should be able to penetrate his thick armor... right?

And then he saw that brief flash of light--

***

Firebringer was be blasted by multiple interceptors! He was a...

Spoiler:
Image


Spoiler:
Zerg UltraliskWelcome to Starcraft Mafia: 2!

You are a zerg ultralisk, a
town one-shot bulletproof
.

You are a ground unit.

You can move up or down the player list one spot at night.

The first time you are targeted with a killing action, you will survive. You will NOT be informed when your vest has taken a hit. Certain abilities may be able to bypass this bulletproof vest.

Win:
You win when the three-man mafia team has been removed.

Game thread here: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=78296

Confirm:
Please confirm by responding with your alignment and role name


The current order of players is:

1. pinturicchio
2. Michael Scott (Auro + Volxen Hydra)
3. Varsoon
4. Mewtaph
5. Alchemist21

Votecount 5.1



Not Voting (5): Varsoon(0), Michael Scott(0), Mewtaph(0), Alchemist21(0), pinturicchio(0)

With 5 alive it takes 3 to lynch.

Day 5 deadline is in (expired on 2019-02-18 14:22:09)
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Post Post #3263 (ISO) » Sun Feb 10, 2019 7:38 am

Post by Michael Scott »

VOTE: Pintu

LyLo. Volx gave me permission to do this.
Pintu is more-or-less confirmed scum from our perspective, as we don't believe Alch/Mew is W/W.
Volxen strongly felt Mew was his partner due to D1/2 associatives, but the NK makes me doubt that.
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Post Post #3264 (ISO) » Sun Feb 10, 2019 7:44 am

Post by Michael Scott »

Wait, nah, don't wanna throw the game on the off-chance both *are* W/W.

UNVOTE:
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Post Post #3265 (ISO) » Sun Feb 10, 2019 7:49 am

Post by Mewtaph »

:neutral: How concerned are you really if you're willing to make a vote on day start?
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Post Post #3266 (ISO) » Sun Feb 10, 2019 7:56 am

Post by Michael Scott »

We decided to place a day start vote over the night phase. Our belief that Pintu is scum is primarily guided by our belief that you and Alch can't be W/W; we both concurred that you were Pintu's likelier partner from previous day play, but the NK is odd since Firebringer was scumreading Alchemist.

So I'm now considering the small possibility that it just happens that town had only one air unit, and you both bussed each other from the start, and my Pintu townread is, in fact, correct. It's wiser to take time to rule it out.
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Post Post #3267 (ISO) » Sun Feb 10, 2019 8:00 am

Post by Mewtaph »

Why do you think Firebringer was killed?
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Post Post #3268 (ISO) » Sun Feb 10, 2019 8:06 am

Post by Michael Scott »

1. Strong scumread on Alch; if Alch is scum this is an obvious NK
2. Varsoon's more paranoid about me

What do you make of it?
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Post Post #3269 (ISO) » Sun Feb 10, 2019 8:09 am

Post by Michael Scott »

Oh also of course, near-universal townread.
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Post Post #3270 (ISO) » Sun Feb 10, 2019 8:27 am

Post by Mewtaph »

I doubt that's all there is to it.
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Post Post #3271 (ISO) » Sun Feb 10, 2019 8:30 am

Post by Mewtaph »

I suppose there's no real way of knowing at this time. So first I'll just wait for everyone to pop in.
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Post Post #3272 (ISO) » Sun Feb 10, 2019 8:31 am

Post by Michael Scott »

What's your theory?

Pedit: Okay.
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Post Post #3273 (ISO) » Sun Feb 10, 2019 8:41 am

Post by pinturicchio »

We should get a long discussion on who's MS partner right now. He clearly aligned mislynches with that ProFlavor push yesterday instead of sorting Alch/Mewtaph. I was fucking right all along
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Post Post #3274 (ISO) » Sun Feb 10, 2019 8:42 am

Post by Michael Scott »

We do now know for sure that there are two scum ground units and one scum air unit -- this much is obvious. Jjh's role PM stated that he was a ground unit and that his kill flavor would be "Marine fire". The kill flavor on night 3 was "Marine Fire", and this was
AFTER
Jjh had already been lynched. So there is a second scum ground unit, and there kill flavor is also "Marine Fire". And now we know that the scum air unit's kill flavor is "Blasted by Interceptors", so we now also know that the scum air unit is the Protoss Interceptor (see: https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Inter ... oid[/url])

This also why the mod stated (see: post ) that each nightkill flavor would be distinctive to the scum that put the kill through, and that there would be up to two different nightkill flavors. Because all the scum ground units (in this case there are two of them) have the same kill flavor (in this case "Marine Fire"), and all the scum air units (in this case there is one of them) have the same kill flavor (in this case "Blasted by Interceptors").

Interesting how the scum air unit has not put in a nightkill until
AFTER
Almost Chara (the town-aligned anti-air unit) was taken out of the game. And every night there has been a successful nightkill, which means scum never tried to take out a town-aligned BP unit and failed. And yet tonight the scum air unit was able to take out Firebringer, which means they had the ability to bypass his BP.

The only way Alchemist and Mewtaph could be SvS is if one of them is actually a scum ground unit that fakeclaimed a Zerg air unit, and the other is a scum air unit that fakeclaimed a Zerg air unit. There are
NOT
two scum air units in this game. Based on Jjh's stated fakeclaim (Zerg Hatchery) being the Zerg equivalent of his actual role (Terran Command Center), I find this scenario unlikely. I also find it unlikely because it would mean that Meph (Nancy and Ari) was the only town-aligned air unit. Additionally, I am rereading through the game and Alchemist and Mewtaph don't seem like SvS.

- Volxen
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