Open 748: Jungle Republic - Over!

[GuiltyLion]

highlighting the posts that stood out to me

OMGUS and lynching me cause I'm more than one!

That's #no-goood

already too defensive on the first page

AJ is scum. Get em outta here.

first the argument was "if they are scum they're too dangerous"
now it's suddenly "they are definitely scum"
how did that logic leap happen?

this feels to me like scum's way of discrediting. calling it a "logic leap" to paint Bambi negatively and asking a question that's meant to shade the push, instead of simply intuiting that Bambi might have seen the way you reacted as scummy. again, overdefensive

bambi let's discuss your not policy lynch
why are you saying its 50/50 when its not?

it's pretty obviously 50/50 from their hypothetical town!POV, this question serves no purpose other than to again discredit. Yes to a townie Bambi is not confirmed town, but obviously she's going to present as town regardless of her alignment. that's not something AI or worth posting about.

I'm sorry, I didn't realize you could quicklynch all on your own now? So far only you and GuiltyLion have expressed any interest whatsoever in lynching us. I highly doubt we get lynched, especially since our logic is flawless while you are over there getting an Olympic gold in mental gymnastics.

"Olympic gold in mental gymnastics" really? I find all their reasoning pretty straightforward. Hyperbole again with intent to discredit

we literally RVS'd you and now you're saying we chose the wrong slot to fuck with? overreact much?

Again, this is simply combative shade meant to muddy up the thread and protect themselves.

@hydra - Why do you think Bambi is scum, or if you don't think Bambi is scum, why are you arguing with them in this manner?

[GuiltyLion]

Don't need to know who is talking to sort a hydra. It might help but you might be surprised to see that having no meta to fall back on gives you more objectivity.

BuJaber do you actually seriously believe this? Hydras are almost always harder for me to sort, especially when they're not sigging their posts. Any inconsistencies or questionable thought processes/pushes can be explained away by "hydra dissonance", and while there's a few town-indicative things that hydras uniquely can do, there's always a deeper level of paranoia about whether they're scum intentionally faking a hydra townslip. I really hate the practice of hydra-ing (outside of a mentor/mentee kind of learning hydra), it's cheating the game by giving multiple voices to one "player" in the game. And crafty/manipulative scum players will absolutely take advantage of the confusion created by doing so.

[ajfefijsleifjsa]

highlighting the posts that stood out to me

OMGUS and lynching me cause I'm more than one!

That's #no-goood

already too defensive on the first page

AJ is scum. Get em outta here.

first the argument was "if they are scum they're too dangerous"
now it's suddenly "they are definitely scum"
how did that logic leap happen?

this feels to me like scum's way of discrediting. calling it a "logic leap" to paint Bambi negatively and asking a question that's meant to shade the push, instead of simply intuiting that Bambi might have seen the way you reacted as scummy. again, overdefensive

bambi let's discuss your not policy lynch
why are you saying its 50/50 when its not?

it's pretty obviously 50/50 from their hypothetical town!POV, this question serves no purpose other than to again discredit. Yes to a townie Bambi is not confirmed town, but obviously she's going to present as town regardless of her alignment. that's not something AI or worth posting about.

I'm sorry, I didn't realize you could quicklynch all on your own now? So far only you and GuiltyLion have expressed any interest whatsoever in lynching us. I highly doubt we get lynched, especially since our logic is flawless while you are over there getting an Olympic gold in mental gymnastics.

"Olympic gold in mental gymnastics" really? I find all their reasoning pretty straightforward. Hyperbole again with intent to discredit

we literally RVS'd you and now you're saying we chose the wrong slot to fuck with? overreact much?

Again, this is simply combative shade meant to muddy up the thread and protect themselves.

@hydra - Why do you think Bambi is scum, or if you don't think Bambi is scum, why are you arguing with them in this manner?

I've played with Bambi before. She has never been this anti-hydra. Also, she has been trying to get us lynched since page 1 with no reason. Also she has refused to answer question that we have posted and requested her response multiple times. Our defensiveness maybe comes from the fact that we have literally been deathtunneled from the very beginning.

[ajfefijsleifjsa]

OMGUS and lynching me cause I'm more than one!

That's #no-goood

already too defensive on the first page

Just wanna address this individually. This happened at RVS, and rather than placing a joke vote like usual, Bambi literally called for our lynch for no reason. Don't tell me you wouldn't be defensive in the same situation.

[ajfefijsleifjsa]

Like I said, nearly 50/50 chance of being scum for you AND 3/4 of your heads are more then likely going to go after me anyway.

Case in point, post 5.

Also apparently an RVS vote is evidence that we are going to tunnel her.

[GuiltyLion]

I've played with Bambi before. She has never been this anti-hydra.

this may be something worth looking into, can you refer me to a game you played with her where there was also a hydra in that game?

Also, she has been trying to get us lynched since page 1 with no reason. Also she has refused to answer question that we have posted and requested her response multiple times.

a) I'd push back on the claim there's "no reason" why she pushed you, but that's neither here nor there. more importantly,
b) why would that behavior be indicative of her being scum?

Our defensiveness maybe comes from the fact that we have literally been deathtunneled from the very beginning.

okay, I sort of implied this in 35 but I'm gonna be explicit now. Nobody wants to read pages on pages of you firing back at people who scumread you or push you and dragging them into semantic arguments, scumreading is a thing that happens in mafia and you need to be chill about it if you're town. instead you should productively help find scum - if you think that's Bambi, case it and explain why - or else you're going to stay in my lynchpool.

104 is not a bad point but I could honestly see that coming from either town or scum. I guess the larger thing I'm missing is why scum!Bambi would go through the effort of getting her hands dirty and championing a "deathtunnel" on town!you right from the get-go, especially given her argument that hydras are chaotic and generally bad for town in a vacuum.

[Bambi Jay]

I'm against this hydra in particular because the setup is very scum sided AND I don't have real experience with ANY of you, or atleast minimal amount. My experience with hydras in the past dont affect this one. Clem was even in a hydra with me recently, so he can attest to that fact.

Please tell me all 4 of you don't see the problem of having you all say counter points to even each other without signing.

"I've played with Bambi before" again, WHOMST the FUCK are YOU? You cant say we don't need sigs but then go "remember that one time?". Having your cake amd eating it too is not a very townie thing to do.

[ajfefijsleifjsa]

"I don't have real experience with ANY of you"
You've played two games with Allomancer very recently.

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=78257 here Bambi played with Allo. DV was a hydra in this that she literally never attacked.
Also too lazy to find the link right now, but in Micro 842 (again with Allo) there was a four-headed hydra. Granted they were scumpartners, but I feel like if attacking large hydras was her meta she would've done it there so as not to appear scummy, and she didn't.

[Bambi Jay]

Again: Hydras in general aren't the problem. You in particular are a problem being not only the 1 hydra, but a 4 headed one in this massive scum game.

Stop trying to use meta against me and actually prove you are town, because I play the game differently depending on the setup and the playerlist. Allo being apart of your hydra doesn't excuse the other 3 from anything.

[BuJaber]

Don't need to know who is talking to sort a hydra. It might help but you might be surprised to see that having no meta to fall back on gives you more objectivity.

BuJaber do you actually seriously believe this? Hydras are almost always harder for me to sort, especially when they're not sigging their posts. Any inconsistencies or questionable thought processes/pushes can be explained away by "hydra dissonance", and while there's a few town-indicative things that hydras uniquely can do, there's always a deeper level of paranoia about whether they're scum intentionally faking a hydra townslip. I really hate the practice of hydra-ing (outside of a mentor/mentee kind of learning hydra), it's cheating the game by giving multiple voices to one "player" in the game. And crafty/manipulative scum players will absolutely take advantage of the confusion created by doing so.

Frankly I don't have a lot of experience playing with hydras of players I have also played with solo.
So I can't say it from experience, but I would also agree that sorting a hydra is harder than sorting a solo player. However my point wasn't that it's easier or that I prefer trying to sort a hydra or whatever. Bambi was making it sound like its impossible to sort the hydra if they don't sign their posts and arguing that the act of not signing is scummy on its own. Let's not pretend that's true. There is an advantage to being forced to judge each post by itself to determine if its scummy or not, untainted by any previous meta or personal feelings towards the poster. You have just demonstrated this yourself.


Bambi has asked them to sign their posts. They refused. We have no power to force them. It serves no purpose to talk about it further. If bambi wants to argue that that is a reason to lynch, then fine, but I don't agree. And while I think the hydra is doing a pretty bad job of defending themselves, I fully understand the frustration of being attacked before the game even starts simply for being who they are (in this case, for being a hydra). We all had the option of following the queue thread to see who is signing up for the game and to /out if we didn't want to play with someone.

Pushing someone's lynch over a policy you can frame as pro-town (or you actually believe is pro-town) is the easiest way to fake town passion as scum. I know because I do it a lot.

[Bambi Jay]

Saying "if you didn't want to play with the 4 headed hydra you should have /outted." shows you aren't understanding my point of view on the matter. I will probably never /out of a game for any reason besides IRL shenanigans. Someone joining a game even if they don't like me? Bring it on, I like the challenge.

What I'm trying to show here is even now, the hydra holds no town benefit and have only confronted me by trying to degrade my case. They even try to say "Oh you haven't done this with other hydra's" when the past doesn't matter. It's the present with THIS setup and playerlist.

The Sig thing I also explained, because while it's true it's good to view each post individually, they broke their own rules 2 times now because it suited them.

1: Oh it was Invisibility doing 90 percent of the spam. (Blaming one of their own by name)

2: Oh I (Allo) have played with Bambi and this is strange behavior.

You don't get it both ways, Jaber. You can't keep anonymity yet also bring up past events in particular as well as blame a different head for posting something.

[mcqueen]

hi

[Bambi Jay]

Hello

[ajfefijsleifjsa]

wrt to gl on 75 since i made the post its not 50/50 from bambi's pov
bambi elimated the seer and herself

[ajfefijsleifjsa]

also bambi's current case is:
we have 4 heads
we could be scum
we havent proven that we're town

this is the main reason why i dont like her. her case is very weak and she wouldnt own up to it being a pl, instead trying to weirdly force it and ignore certain points where we tried to have a conversation with her.

[Bambi Jay]

wrt to gl on 75 since i made the post its not 50/50 from bambi's pov
bambi elimated the seer and herself

Ten remaining slots, five are scum...

Math checks out. What's the problem here? You wanna go semantics on me?

[ajfefijsleifjsa]

12-1=11 does it not

[Bambi Jay]

10 - 5 = 5. 5/10 is 1/2, or .50%. Also known as half.

[ajfefijsleifjsa]

5/11

[ajfefijsleifjsa]

unless you know who the seer is

[Bambi Jay]

5/10 from my point of view.

Why are you arguing even me having a perspective now?

[ajfefijsleifjsa]

bambi how many players are in the game

[Bambi Jay]

unless you know who the seer is

Sounds like you WANT to know who the seer is d1. Semantics is a bitch, ain't it?

[ajfefijsleifjsa]

wow you got me buddy

[ajfefijsleifjsa]

big brain 1000 iq