Merchant's Daughter [Endgame]

[Ankamius]

At the moment, it looks like you're putting more emphasis on convincing people of your viewpoints rather than assessing the validity and reasons behind them.

1)

Are you going to reply to my response to your 1729?

2)

Do you have reads on more than 4 people?

3)

Is there anyone you think is a good option to pair with yourself? Even if it's just a small gut thought?

1. It's related to Vediths voting accountability because if 5 people leave predance, first dance is skipped entirely. I find that to be a better option than the worst case scenario of progressing through the setup normally.

2. Not really no. I have middling reads on about half the playerlist but few of them are concrete or confident in any way.

3. I'd be okay with Moment if I like the rest of his catchup as much as I like what he has so far, otherwise no

[Ankamius]

That's why it pissed me off to no end that Firebringer rolled the 8 coin lady and pissed it away like he did

There's way too much talk between you and Krazy trying to divert worthless shade towards this situation.
If Krazy was given the 8 coins for example I would think it's on the wrong person. Or dann, bit that wouldn't happen.
Both of you're entire arguments here are leading you to try and push Fire as town and me as Scum and acting like you are worried.
My point is, whoever gets the coin you will never have all town satisfied. You're just unhappy about it because it's not someone you can guilt into siding with you at this stage.

Only part I agree with you 2 is that I shouldn't be voting at all until at a confident stage.

No, the part that I'm most worried about is you randomly voting of whoever the fuck you want and singlehandedly losing town the game.

If you're not going to actually read what we are talking about on favor of taking potshots at me constantly when we have a genuine reason to think that you are an actual threat to town

as either alignment

, then you can frankly shut your mouth or go do something else productive in the thread other than push bullshit on me and meme useless shit all game.

so even if vedith is town, he is a threat to town because of the 8 coins? and how did this not apply to me last game?

I can't answer this.

[Ankamius]

Because I can't answer that without essentially confirming my alignment in the first iteration, Allo.

[Ankamius]

What is the source of all these brie scumreads?

I'm not seeing what's so weird about all her posting and the way people are passively bringing it up occasionally over and over again is making me think that she's being pushed as a future mislynch.

[Ankamius]

Considering the pace of the game and her otherwise minimal presence so far, it's a lot easier for me to see it as NAI and more due to time or motivation constraints than scum making waffley posts to make them

So yeah that is a bogus reason. Any others?

[Ankamius]

I have an idea for how most scum teams would handle the IC thing but I don't think it's protown to out it

[Ankamius]

Worm IC would be hilarious though

I'd literally pair with him solely to allow that to happen if there weren't other reasons for me not to pair with him

[Ankamius]

Sadly, ICing worm would be really derpy for scum to do, so there's no real point to.

[Ankamius]

Tbf worm is probably town

[Ankamius]

Tbf worm is probably town

I wouldn't count on it. Assuming worm is a secret alt, I'm willing to bet they are doing this on purpose. It's WIFOM: scum normally wouldn't risk it, so that makes it obvtown, which means it's a viable scum strategy, which makes it no longer obvtown.

I... didn't call it obvtown?

That's not actually where the read comes from. It's something else entirely that I believe is specifically town motivated in the specific context it appears in.

[Ankamius]

Nancy are you around for mind melding

[Ankamius]

Uhhhhhh where is your null line exactly

I think I'm starting to hit a point where the game is starting to make sense and I want to see how similar our reads arw

[Ankamius]

PvtUrist
RadiantCowbells
Allomancer
DoubtingThomas
Alisae
Gamma Emerald
Pink Ball

I'm kinda thinking this list holds all three scum

[Ankamius]

Nancy are you around for mind melding

Sure, shoot.

I came around to you being town
Taly looks really town
Krazy I'm coming around on a bit but he's still in my paranoia list
Vedith is probably town
Firebringer is probably town
Moment is probably town
TheBrie is probably town via gamestate
Dr Worm is probably town

Uhhhhh... Did I miss anyone?

[Ankamius]

I'm up to 16 between that list and PoE

Whoever I'm forgetting is probably town too

[Ankamius]

Dannflor is who I'm missing.

Yeah he's probably town.

[Ankamius]

Alisae is around the lightish scum point for me

[Ankamius]

I'm confused where all these urist townreads came from

He's the only slot I don't remember a single thing of

[Ankamius]

Yeah tbh just sniping a post of mine saying I'm scum and then vanishing again is really weird now that I think about it

[Ankamius]

I'm kinda scared of what the snarky comment was

[Ankamius]

Ok I skimmed urists ISO and I still don't understand all the townreads.

He has the specific type of ISO that I'd expect from scum in this type of game

[Ankamius]

i went back through ali's iso. i know i mentioned having a mixed read on her before, but now I honestly can't see how she is town.

Yeah tbh just sniping a post of mine saying I'm scum and then vanishing again is really weird now that I think about it

Interesting, because e was so obvtown last time. But e isn’t doing much to move the game forward other than talk about wanting to dance with RC and for the good of the game, I think you, me and Taly need to be paired up with Dann/Krazy/DT/RC? If you townread Moment, I suppose you guys could pair up then? I think that I would only pair up with Dann/Krazy/RC if Urist is scum here. Between PB, Gamma and Alisae, I feel the best rn about PB but like RC, I need a lot more content from him as well.

I don't think anybody in this entire game would want RC and me paired together

I'm thinking Moment will more than likely be my top choice by the end of the day, I think he'd have to have a horrendous catchup for me to change my mind on him

[Ankamius]

Here's my ISO from a skim;

-Fluff intro
-Redundent readlist
-More fluff
-Accusation vs Dann that's yet to be backed
-More fluff
-More fluff

so, I'll be needing to play better

Soooooo yes, thank you for supporting my point

I... guess?

[Ankamius]

Gamma is someone I don't think I can read and Allo hasn't really given any town indicators that I can remember?

RC I don't see any reason to townread so far

[Ankamius]

Although him specifically poking my Krazy partner post is bugging me and idk whether it indicates town or scum in his case

[Ankamius]

RC and I just have a major personality clash and it usually isn't enough to cause problems (especially now that we had so many months to cool off after the last catastrophe)

I think it only got that bad in Labyrinth because of mafia fatigue on both sides, plus we had other disagreements in very close proximity to that, so

[Ankamius]

Gamma is someone I don't think I can read and Allo hasn't really given any town indicators that I can remember?

RC I don't see any reason to townread so far

Although him specifically poking my Krazy partner post is bugging me and idk whether it indicates town or scum in his case

You’re referring to RC, right?

I still think his defense of me reads townie.

I think ideally, I get partnered with Dann but we’ll see.

Correct

Stepping back, I think that defense is null

[Ankamius]

How is urist obvtown

[Ankamius]

If she ends up going through to the dance, she'll probably face pressure in general and for what changed her mind. That's not a risk mafia generally wants to take.

I think this is the only thing Dann said so far that particularly pinged me, and there I was more thinking it was possibly just shoddy reasoning. idk, Ank what did you think of this post? Was Dann possibly trying to pocket you?

I'm not sure why exactly anyone would want to pocket me at that point

[Ankamius]

Nancy it was essentially me being pretty sure I should've been obvtown by then and having that many scumreads was really ominous for my odds of being able to have an effect on the gamestate outside of being an eventual policy or compromise lynch

[Ankamius]

Ank has a thing against consensus scumreads; she feels more confident when she is going against the grain. Which is great and it's why I love her, but when we clash it tends to be about her gamestate reads which tend to follow this logic

I'm curious, how many of my games have you seen?

[Ankamius]

Well that answers somebody else anyways so I'm leaving it

[Ankamius]

I'm curious, how many of my games have you seen?

I remember reading maybe 5~6 of your games back during that Ircher game, but that was almost like 6 months ago now so if you feel like i'm being way off base you're welcome to say so

but yeah mostly I'm just thinking of our one game together

Actually it took me a bit by surprise because that's a very hard deduction to make from only the games we've played. It makes a lot more sense if you've seen most of my 2018 games since it's a bit more obvious when you see multiples of that kind of play.

I generally call it me generally being stronger when town is losing but it's kinda the same thing

[Ankamius]

I'm not going to talk about the 5 people leaving predance thing anymore since it's pretty obvious nobody is going to humor it, Moment

[Ankamius]

I'm really tired but I don't want to get up and go to bed

am I broken

[Ankamius]

I'm not the biggest fan of post rock so my official opinion after having listened to about 30 seconds of it is a solid ok/music

[Ankamius]

I'm not the biggest fan of post rock so my official opinion after having listened to about 30 seconds of it is a solid ok/music

what's your jam as far as music goes?

uhhhhh usually game osts nowadays, some softcore techno/wubwub type stuff

[Ankamius]

I like this guy

I think he's my dream date

[Ankamius]

I like to be held more than to do the holding though

[Ankamius]

oh jeez

[Ankamius]

the hopeless romantic in me wants to agree to that but the rational part of me if slapping that other part of me down to the ground

[Ankamius]

the hopeless romantic in me wants to agree to that but the rational part of me if slapping that other part of me down to the ground

you might want to sleep on it although, given I've been listening to his recommendation of music from 2093, I'm liking Pvt on a personal level right now

I mean my read isn't more solid but he seems like a cool guy regardless of alignment

sure but I don't want to be stabbed in the back because I wasn't careful enough :(

[Ankamius]

oh krazy did you ever comment on my reads

idr if you went into more than just the brie thing

[Ankamius]

well he's playing with my heart

so he's not playing fair

[Ankamius]

doesn't the sun appear yellow because of the angle that it hits the earth's atmosphere with

which is also why it appears more reddish when it's on the horizon

[Ankamius]

good night

I'm going to sleep too

[Ankamius]

RC here's what I'm confused about, not going into your scumread on me which I mentioned is really fucking weird.

If your other wolfreads are not going to reach endgame, why are you that opposed to pairing with me since you can ensure I die that way?

[Ankamius]

Thats dissonance and I really really REALLY do not like that

RC is probably scum.

[Ankamius]

It's kind of telling that your stance on it is that you don't want to match someone with scum equity instead.

[Ankamius]

I don't townread ankamius and I'm going to be hard angling to kill her in first dance while I'm definitively alive to make it happen tbh

All my other wolfread aren't going to endgsney

Then what is this RC

[Ankamius]

What does that matter? Either I'm getting to endgame or I'm not. Which is it?

[Ankamius]

You literally said you "all my other wolfreads aren't getting to endgame"

And then you say you won't pair with me because I won't get to endgame.

How is any of that disingenuous.

[Ankamius]

Nancy, do NOT pair with RC.

I don't trust him to be lynchable if you do, and I have no faith that this is him as town with this bizarro play.

[Ankamius]

Plus I do not buy in any sense that RC scumreads me here, especially with how open I am with outright wanting to pair with one of his other scumreads.

His reads are too easy too, I strongly doubt the scum are THAT level of easy in this game because of all the sketchy sheeping going on so far. I don't know what exactly his plan is besides just surviving to second dance, but I'm starting to strongly suspect he's going to try to solo win with a very townread partner.

[Ankamius]

You literally said you "all my other wolfreads aren't getting to endgame"

And then you say you won't pair with me because I won't get to endgame.

How is any of that disingenuous.

I trust must to Lynch or suitably destroy townreads on you enough that you don't reach endgame if I out the time in. I intend to put the time in and I expressed that.

If I can't get rid of one of the aforementioned people myself I'd get antsy

Better bus your partners first.

[Ankamius]

accept RC

[Ankamius]

Now there's very little paranoia on both sides that are justified

[Ankamius]

That's not optimal and you know it RC

[Ankamius]

If you feel that strongly about it, leave once dance two starts

That's the best way to go about it if you're just going to leave anyways

[Ankamius]

Like not trying to antagonize you or ate

I'm just not gonna have anything to say to you from here on out

K

Good luck, I'll be trying to find your partners in the meantime then

[Ankamius]

I'd still rather Nancy not go with Krazy

Krazy should a a mid or low townread

[Ankamius]

Should go with *

[Ankamius]

Moment is probably going to end up with a scumslot that won't last long sadly

[Ankamius]

Krazy what do you think

Who are the optional pairs for who is left

[Ankamius]

I'm not a good choice for sorting Dann

I'm notoriously inconsistent at sorting players with older school playstyles

A lot of what the townread comes from is from fairly consistent thought processes, which honestly isn't particularly hard to fake for that kind of style.

[Ankamius]

The problem is that other than Worm, I think that's all my current townreads of the gentlemen (taking out Moment of course for obvious reasons)

So I'm not really sure who else I'd pair her with at all

[Ankamius]

That might end up being necessary RC

[Ankamius]

But Taly also needs an obvtown gentleman sooooooo

[Ankamius]

Idk

The gentleman side is a lot less town in general than the lady side is

[Ankamius]

I sincerely doubt that Taly is obvtown.

Your slot is one of the scummiest so

[Ankamius]

Name one town thing that slot has done so far?

[Ankamius]

I sincerely doubt that Taly is obvtown.

Your slot is one of the scummiest so

Point being? Doesn't make my statement any less true.

I've only read the posts of Taly since I replaced in. But in my experience, he plays very similarly as both alignments.

He feels a lot more like the one town Taly I played with years ago than the over the top scum Taly that I strongly believe he would have opened with like Echo Bay Grits and Labyrinth

The difference is very jarring and its a lot easier to see the genuineness in what he's posting when he plays this way.

[Ankamius]

There's enough sketchy gentlemen that not taking him to the dance might just be a bad idea for the game even if it's worse for town cohesion to take him, sadly

[Ankamius]

What are you telling me with that Nancy

[Ankamius]

Nancy, do NOT pair with RC.

I don't trust him to be lynchable if you do, and I have no faith that this is him as town with this bizarro play.

You forget that I always have the perogative to leave, if I choose to do so. I think my RC read is closer to mindmelding with Krazy’s than yours.

Not like it matters anyways, both of our paranoia of each other is self resolving now anyways.

[Ankamius]

Plus I do not buy in any sense that RC scumreads me here, especially with how open I am with outright wanting to pair with one of his other scumreads.

His reads are too easy too, I strongly doubt the scum are THAT level of easy in this game because of all the sketchy sheeping going on so far. I don't know what exactly his plan is besides just surviving to second dance, but I'm starting to strongly suspect he's going to try to solo win with a very townread partner.

Will you give me some credit here? No one is going to snow me here, not even RC.

By that same token, give me some credit too please

[Ankamius]

Goddammit stupid quote won't go away :/

Did you read the posts before that?

[Ankamius]

Ank accepted it because as either alignment she thinks a 1 for 1 trade is worth

This

It disallows scum RC from endgaming
It allows me to shelve my paranoia of townRC
And this is obviously a very good pairing for scum me

[Ankamius]

From my end, there's no reason to deny this as any alignment

[Ankamius]

From my end, there's no reason to deny this as any alignment

Not true

If you were town and wanted to give town the best chances of winning this was wrong

When I see you specifically say that you want to get me out of the game since I'm the only one who will get anywhere without you dismantling the townreads on me, it makes no sense for you to specifically refuse to pair with me as town since that is the simplest way to win the game.

[Ankamius]

Actually I'm pretty sure I did that Nancy

[Ankamius]

And this is obviously a very good pairing for scum me

Really? Didn't RC say he was leaving as soon as he could?

My scumgame is next level bad

Taking out townRC would be best case

[Ankamius]

Nancy chill

[Ankamius]

:facepalm: did

RC/Ank

literally pair just so they can fucking murder/suicide at First Dance?

what the fuck....

Tbh I wasn't specifically planning to suicide before second dance, I mostly wanted RC to take accountability for his stances

[Ankamius]

:facepalm: did

RC/Ank

literally pair just so they can fucking murder/suicide at First Dance?

what the fuck....

Tbh I wasn't specifically planning to suicide before second dance, I mostly wanted RC to take accountability for his stances

So you're pairing with someone to prove a point rather than your read and cohesion with them as a partner?

That's not good either.

Well obviously I don't want RC to endgame either

[Ankamius]

:facepalm: did

RC/Ank

literally pair just so they can fucking murder/suicide at First Dance?

what the fuck....

Tbh I wasn't specifically planning to suicide before second dance, I mostly wanted RC to take accountability for his stances

So you're pairing with someone to prove a point rather than your read and cohesion with them as a partner?

That's not good either.

Well obviously I don't want RC to endgame either

IF YOU'RE TOWN YOUR DEATH IS NOT HELPING US EITHER

If you townread me in the first place, then RC tunneling me is not exactly good for town either, Taly.

[Ankamius]

Like I think people are forgetting that RC literally said that he would specifically look to get me lynched once the dance starts, and yet there is enough support for me to get a relatively town partner that having that go down would be even worse than both of us dying at the start of first dance.

[Ankamius]

ok rage is subsiding.

If you townread me in the first place, then RC tunneling me is not exactly good for town either, Taly.

You keep making the assumption that one of you MUST be scum, which I both don't agree with, and don't understand the town-produtive motivation here.

I'm mixed on RC now tbh

I think scum RC would have resisted me a lot more than this, but his tone shift after the pairing is giving me pause on it, since that makes more sense to me as scum RC than town RC

[Ankamius]

Nancy can you just CHILL

[Ankamius]

Like I think people are forgetting that RC literally said that he would specifically look to get me lynched once the dance starts, and yet there is enough support for me to get a relatively town partner that having that go down would be even worse than both of us dying at the start of first dance.

What part of this is specific to

RC's scumrange

?

To an extent, you're letting your pre-game disconnect muddle your thinking, and I think my indignation is pretty well-justified. :mad:

???

Do you think my reasoning is inherently wrong?

[Ankamius]

like

the sheet amount of shit I'm getting for this is completely insane

I don't see how accepting that pairing is inherently bad outside of the fact that I'm one of the only people that isn't townreading RC, which is literally like 80% of the reason I accepted it in the first place.

The problem you all run into is that RC is

literally threatening to dismantle everyone's townreads on me anyways

, which is a lot more damaging to the game than RC taking us both out and saving the gamestate all that trouble for most of the first dance.

I don't fucking get it

[Ankamius]

IF WE ARE BOTH TOWN

THEN US NOT PAIRING TOGETHER IS ALSO BAD FOR THE GAME

[Ankamius]

Moment what do your reads looks like currently?

[Ankamius]

Spoiler:

RC here's what I'm confused about, not going into your scumread on me which I mentioned is really fucking weird.

If your other wolfreads are not going to reach endgame, why are you that opposed to pairing with me since you can ensure I die that way?

Thats dissonance and I really really REALLY do not like that

RC is probably scum.

It's kind of telling that your stance on it is that you don't want to match someone with scum equity instead.

I don't townread ankamius and I'm going to be hard angling to kill her in first dance while I'm definitively alive to make it happen tbh

All my other wolfread aren't going to endgsney

Then what is this RC

What does that matter? Either I'm getting to endgame or I'm not. Which is it?

You literally said you "all my other wolfreads aren't getting to endgame"

And then you say you won't pair with me because I won't get to endgame.

How is any of that disingenuous.

yeah I didn't have any of my own reasons for that nancy

[Ankamius]

So... You don't actually have a definite read on

RC

?

This is a yes or no question.

Not now, no

I thought RCs reentrance into the game today was incredibly scummy, the pairing and post-pairing content is just pushing it more towards the null line.

[Ankamius]

Your reasons are valid, but I don't see why you're pairing with

RC

if you're entertaining leaving in the first place?

I get where this confusion came from.

That changed when I started getting a sense of where the gamestate was at and how scum were fitting into it. I'm pretty confident now that I'll still be able to make a difference towards building a winning gametstate for town even without making it past first dance.

[Ankamius]

Spoiler:

RC here's what I'm confused about, not going into your scumread on me which I mentioned is really fucking weird.

If your other wolfreads are not going to reach endgame, why are you that opposed to pairing with me since you can ensure I die that way?

Thats dissonance and I really really REALLY do not like that

RC is probably scum.

It's kind of telling that your stance on it is that you don't want to match someone with scum equity instead.

I don't townread ankamius and I'm going to be hard angling to kill her in first dance while I'm definitively alive to make it happen tbh

All my other wolfread aren't going to endgsney

Then what is this RC

What does that matter? Either I'm getting to endgame or I'm not. Which is it?

You literally said you "all my other wolfreads aren't getting to endgame"

And then you say you won't pair with me because I won't get to endgame.

How is any of that disingenuous.

yeah I didn't have any of my own reasons for that nancy

Don’t you think I could have gotten through to him? But everyone always underestimates me. I hydra’d with RC. I would have been able to convince him. What I forsee happening is that based on what I’ve seen so far, the two of you, will just implode. Prove me wrong. Taly is completely right to be pissed.

honestly, I have no real qualms of working with him if he decides to try to work with me, and I've already stated multiple times that at the very least, I'm not going to consider suiciding until we reach second dance (and more than likely, it would probably be when there's only 3 pairings left or roughly that ballpark if I do at all).

the bigger pressing issue with that is that he is so convinced of his scumread of me that he's willing to suicide

at the start of first dance

to take me out.

[Ankamius]

So... You don't actually have a definite read on

RC

?

This is a yes or no question.

Not now, no

I thought RCs reentrance into the game today was incredibly scummy, the pairing and post-pairing content is just pushing it more towards the null line.

Then I'm at a loss at trying to understand your read progression on him, but focusing on this now isn't helpful because you and

RC

are NO longer partner opportunities even WHEN both of you haven't FULLY analyzed and made a stance in this game.

I need a break from this conversation and I need to respond to other posts here, and finally pump out a readslist so I can have a shred of coherency.

I only pressed the issue because RC specifically tried to sidestep the issue when I asked him about that dissonance instead of giving me a straight answer

[Ankamius]

Your reasons are valid, but I don't see why you're pairing with

RC

if you're entertaining leaving in the first place?

I get where this confusion came from.

That changed when I started getting a sense of where the gamestate was at and how scum were fitting into it. I'm pretty confident now that I'll still be able to make a difference towards building a winning gametstate for town even without making it past first dance.

How so?

I don't think I'm that far off with my reads

the problem is more who in my PoE list is actually scum and who is just town that I can't see as town yet

[Ankamius]

But by pairing up with him, you’ve handed him that power, don’t you see? Had he paired with me OTOH, he would have not had the power to take you out, because then he’d actually have had to persuade people to lynch you.

even if he doesn't actually succeed with that, it's still a huge diversion and you should know me well enough that I'm not going to just let him get away with that without getting up in his face back

that's essentially the same thing, except with a lot more thread vomit attached

[Ankamius]

like

sorry for creating this situation and pissing a lot of you off

but I don't regret this, I think that it's better to have the damage be isolated to pre-dance rather than take over first dance.

[Ankamius]

a better focus is to get two pairings as close to locktown as possible, that way it's still genuinely hard for scum to win this game

you don't need a huge amount of scumhunting power as long as the post-intermission gamestate is not in a bad spot

[Ankamius]

Nancy

, say something positive or game-advancing and people will be more apt to listen.

Not that you're not doing this - but when you post something like

"this game is lost"

then it's a disconnect and a source for people to think you're producing a scum narrative.

I’m upset because I think they’re going to take each other out in 1st Dance, where as had they partnered with others, they’d have to convince others, so that would have been a lot less likely to happen, so I think we’re losing likely two top towns, right off the bat, so I don’t understand why people are telling me not to feel pessimistic about that.

we only have two pairings set up

there's still plenty of room to create a won gamestate

[Ankamius]

RC

and I have a lot of experience together and I just wanted to see if partnering with him would be optimal here.

like

sorry for creating this situation and pissing a lot of you off

but I don't regret this, I think that it's better to have the damage be isolated to pre-dance rather than take over first dance.

eh. I could've reacted better. I see your stance. I have reason to think you're both town, even though I don't really like either of your approaches here.

I've always been open to being convinced that RC is town

I think the evidence supports otherwise, but I'm also well aware that I'm not exactly the best person to sort him

the part that really concerns me is if RC is town, I'm pretty sure this is the first time he has ever read me incorrectly

[Ankamius]

But by pairing up with him, you’ve handed him that power, don’t you see? Had he paired with me OTOH, he would have not had the power to take you out, because then he’d actually have had to persuade people to lynch you.

even if he doesn't actually succeed with that, it's still a huge diversion and you should know me well enough that I'm not going to just let him get away with that without getting up in his face back

that's essentially the same thing, except with a lot more thread vomit attached

The point is that he doesn’t have the same power to get you lynched. Leaving one’s partner, is equivalent to a desperado type of thing.

I don't doubt that regardless of whether he succeeds or not, he will waste a lot of effort on trying

[Ankamius]

Nancy

do you still think we are both town

[Ankamius]

Nancy do you still townread both RC and me

[Ankamius]

am I being ignored now

[Ankamius]

I think you're the type that's not too difficult to detect for someone who knows what to look for, Taly

[Ankamius]

a lot

[Ankamius]

RC and I are dance partners

[Ankamius]

go read the last 10 pages or so

[Ankamius]

Dr Worm is a fairly confident townread

It makes very little sense to me why scumworm would go out of his way to specifically be as obnoxious in his posting as possible when there's a lot of attention on him, and then only to, AFTER most of the heat is off him, begin speaking in a more readable version of his format and say that he doesn't want to reach intermission. That timing doesn't make sense.

That said, he's still probably not the worst option to leave out of the dance and definitely is not somebody I want you paired with.

[Ankamius]

That said, he's still probably not the worst option to leave out of the dance and definitely is not somebody I want you paired with.

I don't think he's anywhere near a

good

option to leave out of the dance when he's a gent town read and those aren't in the highest supply

That's fair but I'm more worried about a future scenario where he becomes a compromise lynch solely because of his posting style

I'm more worried about overall town cohesion than anything right now

[Ankamius]

Ok well

I think Nancy is done with me so Krazy would you be able to convince me on RCtown at all

[Ankamius]

Idk

It's entirely possible this is a waste of time completely in practice but it would help me reach a solve of some kind if I could be completely sure of his alignment either way

[Ankamius]

Spoiler:

RC here's what I'm confused about, not going into your scumread on me which I mentioned is really fucking weird.

If your other wolfreads are not going to reach endgame, why are you that opposed to pairing with me since you can ensure I die that way?

Thats dissonance and I really really REALLY do not like that

RC is probably scum.

It's kind of telling that your stance on it is that you don't want to match someone with scum equity instead.

I don't townread ankamius and I'm going to be hard angling to kill her in first dance while I'm definitively alive to make it happen tbh

All my other wolfread aren't going to endgsney

Then what is this RC

What does that matter? Either I'm getting to endgame or I'm not. Which is it?

You literally said you "all my other wolfreads aren't getting to endgame"

And then you say you won't pair with me because I won't get to endgame.

How is any of that disingenuous.

yeah I didn't have any of my own reasons for that nancy

like

sorry for creating this situation and pissing a lot of you off

but I don't regret this, I think that it's better to have the damage be isolated to pre-dance rather than take over first dance.

[Ankamius]

There's a lot of posts regarding it but that's roughly the gist on my end

RC is just planning on suiciding at the start of first dance last I heard

[Ankamius]

???

I understand the difference, I don't understand the relevance

And you went about it in such a roundabout way that I'm still confused as to how this is necessarily bad if you are at the stage where I'm the only slot that might survive without your interference

[Ankamius]

Only slot you think is scum*

[Ankamius]

Nancy do you still townread both RC and me

am I being ignored now

Oh sorry, I missed this. Yeah, I think so.

Nvm I think RC has given up entirely

[Ankamius]

Build your case then RC

At the very least show that there's a basis behind your scumread

Otherwise you are doing the exact same thing you are accusing me of and I like to think you would be better than that as town

[Ankamius]

We're past the point where that's relevant bby

So that's it? You're going to let me beat you that easily?

[Ankamius]

I really really feel Ankamius and RC are likely both town who just aren't getting through to each other/communicating properly

I'm hoping they somehow manage to turn around and even turn into an obv town pair

He's completely given up.

[Ankamius]

Me too.

[Ankamius]

Did anyone ever get back to me on their urist townread? I don't remember if anyone did or not but I somewhat skimmed the 9 pages while I was asleep so it's possible I missed it

[Ankamius]

Did anyone ever get back to me on their urist townread? I don't remember if anyone did or not but I somewhat skimmed the 9 pages while I was asleep so it's possible I missed it

He’s townier than either moment and especially Allo, so it’s in town’s interest he make it to the first dance.

Can you go into that for me? He's still one of the people I'm most suspicious of atm

[Ankamius]

Did anyone ever get back to me on their urist townread? I don't remember if anyone did or not but I somewhat skimmed the 9 pages while I was asleep so it's possible I missed it

PB's case was meta based, but I'm not convinced by it.

I distantly remember it was like 1-2 games? Am I remembering it correctly

[Ankamius]

Oh god let's not do that

[Ankamius]

that's terrifying

[Ankamius]

hi firebringer how are you today

[Ankamius]

I guess

probably not going to get any better pairings than that tbh

[Ankamius]

•Gentlemen
1.PvtUrist
4.Moment
5.Allomancer
7.DoubtingThomas

•Ladies
3.Something_Smart
5.TheBrie
6.Gamma Emerald

^ Unpaired after those two

I'm fully okay with this.

[Ankamius]

with the exception of a potential Moment + TheBrie pairing, all 7 of these should be flipping before the end of the game barring a scum genocide so the rest doesn't matter all that much?

[Ankamius]

well you're in my PoE list and also my... I believe second biggest scumread?

[Ankamius]

NOTICE the ONES with LOW POSTS are SCUM IN EVERYBIDY"S MINDS?? DR WORM will THINK about THIS!!

that's why I think Moment and TheBrie are town :3

[Ankamius]

I'm doing ok

where your thoughts at bb

[Ankamius]

I'll do some analysis stuff before bed

[Ankamius]

fuck

me

Krazy's early posts are even scummier than I thought they were

[Ankamius]

Krazy you get your ass in here

[Ankamius]

I figured out why Krazy's entrance to the game bugged me as much as it did

[Ankamius]

Opposite opinion of Dann's entrance than I did at the start of the game btw

I think it's like moderately town upon a reread

[Ankamius]

Gamma should be left out, his ISO is atrocious even if you only focus on when he was caught up to the game

[Ankamius]

how is gamma town

[Ankamius]

Ok so Firebringer, Nancy, Krazy and Gamma are all town. Alisae and Taly are close to town. I have my doubts about Dannflor and Allomancer is nothing like the obvtown I got last game.

I need more gents' townreads.

these reads are really butt, PB

[Ankamius]

how is gamma town

The question is, how is she scum?

oh

the pronoun isn't sticking for some reason, I'm sorry gamma

gamma isn't trying to scumhunt.

[Ankamius]

You mean my 2500 posts ago reads? After 2500 posts, they're still better than yours'

up to that point they're pretty butt, yes

[Ankamius]

how is gamma town

The question is, how is she scum?

oh

the pronoun isn't sticking for some reason, I'm sorry gamma

gamma isn't trying to scumhunt.

Can you say more than that? Surely scum would want to look like they're trying to scumhunt...

his entire ISO is fluff

generally when I see a town-gamma in a game, he gets incredibly fluffy but you can still tell he is trying to sort people

I'm not getting that sense at all this game

[Ankamius]

Also Ank, calling me out with a 2500 posts ago readlist? What's up with that? Did you have that post "saved for later" in the scum PT or something?

I'll do some analysis stuff before bed

[Ankamius]

ok yeah

whoever dannflor was supposed to be partnered with (Nancy I think?) I still fully support the pairing; he's about at the top of moderate town now.

I'll look into krazy more tomorrow after I sleep. I'm stopping on page 18.

[Ankamius]

{Ankamius}
{Nancy Drew 39, Firebringer, Taly}
{Dannflor, Dr Worm, Allomancer, The Brie}
{Moment, Vedith}
{DoubtingThomas} NULL
{Pink Ball, Krazy}
{PvtUrist, RadiantCowbells, Something_Smart, Gamma Emerald}
{}
{}

roughly where I am now

[Ankamius]

how the hell am i below urself in townieness just because u know ur role pm u think ur more townie than me?
rude as hell ank

you take that back mr "I'm getting townread too easily"

[Ankamius]

weren't you going to deathtunnel me

[Ankamius]

be a trail blazer fire

[Ankamius]

unbelievable

I am ashamed

[Ankamius]

lucky you

I've been working on and off (95% off) on mine for months and months now and the official timeline for it to be ready is never

so you're already far ahead of me

[Ankamius]

ya I'm always disappointed in my nodding I get it

[Ankamius]

yeah I am your evil twin

how does it feel

[Ankamius]

I'm in training

I'm sorry I'll try harder to be evil

[Ankamius]

I'm flirting with the other evil twin chill

[Ankamius]

I'm still trying to recover from the wound you left on my heart

when did I so that

[Ankamius]

[Ankamius]

ppl are mad at ankamius but not even for a good reason. they're mad at her because she scumreads me. that's not the issue. the issue is that she's willing to lie and twist things to support her case because she knows her case doesn't have solid enough ground. if she knows her case doesn't have solid enough ground and she doesn't think she can get me lynched off of reality and she knows she can't read me well... she really has no business going after me. i can handle being scumread fine, it just so happens that most of the people who scumread me on this site scumread me for incredibly dishonest reasons as a masquerade to hide the fact that they really just don't like the idea of scum me winning.

This is the single most annoying thing you've said yet if you are actually town.

I believe defending Nancy is something you would do as either alignment. I believe you would be expected to do that as town, and understand that enough to do it as scum.

Your reads are sketchy. Your scumreads are... slots that have very little to no impact on the game, and me, somebody who you have had no trouble ever seeing as town when I was town before.

You didn't take the path to the easiest win and when I pressured you about it, you did this ridiculous commentary about how my scumgame is not worth it instead of simply saying that your reads are not to where you are confident in them enough to commit to that. <--

THIS

would've been a town response and I would have backed off. Instead, you got incredibly defensive at pressure that wouldn't phase someone who genuinely thought they would easily win against me, so no shit I turned up the pressure.

And now the only thing I can think of with how you are playing right now is that your plan to pocket someone and ride that to endgame has failed and you are playing to give town as little as possible to get your buddies to endgame.

Your game here has had a

scumgame

approach to it and frankly, I would have much higher expectations of your towngame than to let me chain you down and destroy your spirit entirely regardless of my alignment, because if this is your towngame in the first place, what would you have done if I ended up flipping town after you death tunneled me for the entire first dance?

I really don't care if you leave at the start of the first dance, tbh for scum you that's probably smart. But for town you, I'm very disappointed that you wouldn't give me enough credit to believe that I don't make this level of push on people I don't have good reason to believe has a good chance of flipping scum, and if that one little push is going to break you, then you really shouldn't be playing mafia in the first place right now.

You're acting in the same way now that you accuse me of doing. Either put your back into the game and get back into the groove of it, replace out, or just do whatever that doesn't involve complaining about how shitty of a person I am, because that helps a grand total of nobody in any way.

[Ankamius]

I think the point of his early game setup spec was to set up scum being able to pocket their partners

And lo and behold... he pushed to do that himself for Taly

[Ankamius]

And it worked brilliantly, people got so caught up with the coin mechanic that nobody ever noticed that what he was suggesting was going to make it very easy for scum to coast through just fine by just pocketing one person.

[Ankamius]

I see, I take that back then

[Ankamius]

Oh good god

I'll get to that when I'm at a desktop

[Ankamius]

Tbh Taly I think there's not much to do about it by this point

I really just want you to be aware that he could be trying to play the long game here, which involves the scumteam predominantly pocketing their partners of choice.

FTR if RC is legitimately scum here, I would be far more suspicious of Krazy than I already am since my presence would be the biggest danger for him and it would make RC's overall play with this make perfect sense.

[Ankamius]

Honestly my reads are different enough from the majority that I really doubt I'll be able to push town in the right direction if what I believe is going on is actually truly what's going on, so it's probably better if I step back and let you all do whatever.

[Ankamius]

Plus since it's a guarantee I'm not going to survive past the beginning of first dance, my influence is pretty much negated.

Now I'm starting to think that this was a no win situation for me in the first place. SHRUG.

[Ankamius]

I expect the scumteam to have me as null in this game, specially after pairing with dr worm who, despite being townread now, it's easy to "change their mind" about him and mislynch us. Guess what fuckos: not gonna happen

Yea I'm going to be defending this pair. Extremely wary of people's scum reads on Dr Worm and the quality of those reads

Keep an eye on how people treat Moment and TheBrie too. I'd bet money on both of them being town.

[Ankamius]

I don't see a scenario where scum would *want* a scum/scum pairing unless they were forced into it.

Yes because unless all 3 scum make the F2, I don’t see how they’d win.

Here's my question to you Nancy: what is scum doing to ensure they can get to endgame?

[Ankamius]

I have 4 coins if it helps

[Ankamius]

Here's my question to you Nancy: what is scum doing to ensure they can get to endgame?

Yea this is what I'm really worried about concerning the current state of teh game. The bottom people just aren't... doing enough. Which as town they should be trying to prove their towniness but also as scum they should be trying even harder to prove their towniness. So it makes me uneasy that there's a lot of players just going with the flow.

you gave dr worm 5 coins? oh fuck no oh god

Can you answer my question about what gent you'd leave behind, Allo?

Also, what is the basis of your Dr Worm scum read? Is it just his posting style?

Are you seeing how I'm approaching the game now

There's no obvious plan the scum have for this game if you take the game at face value, and that's a sign that there's either trickery going on or the scumteam is just doomed from the start.

[Ankamius]

Go ahead Taly

I'm pretty much tapped out of the game now

[Ankamius]

All I really have to say is don't lock him as town.

[Ankamius]

I expect the scumteam to have me as null in this game, specially after pairing with dr worm who, despite being townread now, it's easy to "change their mind" about him and mislynch us. Guess what fuckos: not gonna happen

Yea I'm going to be defending this pair. Extremely wary of people's scum reads on Dr Worm and the quality of those reads

Keep an eye on how people treat Moment and TheBrie too. I'd bet money on both of them being town.

I can maybe see Brie but why Moment? I’m still null on her.

don't think anything I can say on that will matter

I doubt moment is making it very far regardless

[Ankamius]

I don't see a scenario where scum would *want* a scum/scum pairing unless they were forced into it.

Yes because unless all 3 scum make the F2, I don’t see how they’d win.

Here's my question to you Nancy: what is scum doing to ensure they can get to endgame?

Plotting mislynches, I’d assume. Isn’t that what scum usually does?

does that matter if there's two all-town pairings that will reach endgame before everyone else

[Ankamius]

is RC your alt?

[Ankamius]

i just snorted milk through my nose laughing AHHHHHHHH

<3

[Ankamius]

Go ahead Taly

I'm pretty much tapped out of the game now

You and RC both. :(

I think I've done everything I can

rest is up to you guys, gl

[Ankamius]

When you want to sort me without relying on someone else's meta, lmk.

Do you think her meta argument is inaccurate?

He feels a lot more like the one town Taly I played with years ago than the over the top scum Taly that I strongly believe he would have opened with like Echo Bay Grits and Labyrinth

The difference is very jarring and its a lot easier to see the genuineness in what he's posting when he plays this way.

I don't see a scenario where scum would *want* a scum/scum pairing unless they were forced into it.

Yes because unless all 3 scum make the F2, I don’t see how they’d win.

Here's my question to you Nancy: what is scum doing to ensure they can get to endgame?

Plotting mislynches, I’d assume. Isn’t that what scum usually does?

does that matter if

there's two all-town pairings that will reach endgame

before everyone else

Two?

start second dance with 2 pairings that are all town

scorched earth everybody else

gg

[Ankamius]

Go ahead Taly

I'm pretty much tapped out of the game now

You and RC both. :(

I think I've done everything I can

rest is up to you guys, gl

Both of you just giving up, is really bad for town.

I'm not actually giving up

I just don't think I have much more to give without seeing flips, and that's going to be impossible

[Ankamius]

Yeah, which is precisely why you and RC should have never paired up. :/

would you rather us bitch at each other for the entire first dance and completely derail the game?

[Ankamius]

Give me some credit Ank; ;)
I have enough wisdom to not locktown/lockscum anyone in the first phase of a game.

<3

<3

<3 I accept Krazy's offer. <3

<3

<3

I claim 7 coins.

then my work here is done

good luck

[Ankamius]

Yeah, which is precisely why you and RC should have never paired up. :/

would you rather us bitch at each other for the entire first dance and completely derail the game?

I don’t thnk I’m doing that at all?

not you

RC and me

[Ankamius]

So Ank how have you been these last few months anyway?

eh

probably not stuff I should be posting publicly

how about you

[Ankamius]

I could be sold on Gamma/Moment

I don't know if Ank actually wants to sell it, actually she might not like it

But anyway, that was a thought I just had

idrc anymore tbh

[Ankamius]

So Ank how have you been these last few months anyway?

eh

probably not stuff I should be posting publicly

how about you

Mixed but better I'd say

Some health stuff cleared up, some work stuff went poorly. I think I'd take the improvement in health right now though. Funny to think of it that way; makes me grateful even though there's been some stress lately.

I'm glad you've kinda come back, I'm hoping to see you in more games. I do enjoy playing with you.

idk, I might play a couple more before vanishing again, I'm not sure yet

this is the only one I'm in currently though

[Ankamius]

I don't know whether I should be literally trying to force RC to stay to second dance or not or how that would help

you're wasting your time

it's optimal to wait until second dance to suicide but I'm 100% certain he's deadest on suiciding the moment first dance begins and nothing you say will change that

[Ankamius]

yeah just pretend we both didn't match at all

it has the least ability to impact the gamestate that way

[Ankamius]

Moment could you go into your townreads a bit? I have a reasonably strong townread on you and I think town needs to be able to figure that out too

[Ankamius]

RC are we actually syncing outside of our reads of each other

[Ankamius]

pink ball i just

don't feel a townread for

other people have townread them and maybe i should but i just... don't

where are you on urist and SS

[Ankamius]

ok

{Ankamius}
{Nancy Drew 39, Firebringer, Taly}
{Dannflor, Dr Worm, Allomancer, The Brie}
{Moment, Vedith}
{DoubtingThomas} NULL
{Pink Ball, Krazy}
{PvtUrist, RadiantCowbells, Something_Smart, Gamma Emerald}
{}
{}

roughly where I am now

this is me reaching out to you RC

ignore the stated read on you, which of my reads do you agree and disagree with?

[Ankamius]

i'm not scumhunting

please?

[Ankamius]

outside of picking apart the people/pairings who are generally townblocked that i'm not happy with being townblocked

a la

taly/krazy
pink ball to some extent

and that's... about it?

i'm not scumhunting

understand i'm not scumhunting to mean i don't care who the scum are, i care who the town are

so the rest of the matches are townread+townread? is that what you mean?

[Ankamius]

outside of picking apart the people/pairings who are generally townblocked that i'm not happy with being townblocked

a la

taly/krazy
pink ball to some extent

and that's... about it?

i'm not scumhunting

understand i'm not scumhunting to mean i don't care who the scum are, i care who the town are

so the rest of the matches are townread+townread? is that what you mean?

no i mean

firebringer/vedith is a flawed pairing because i'm not 100% sure on firebringer or vedith but i'd say it could conceivably be tvt but isn't worth betting the game on
i can't see dannflor/nd containing scum
taly wasted their slot by pairing krazy and needs to die early
moment/thebrie are feeling townier now

fire/vedith is a wildcard but I think it's more likely town than not; it seems like a midgame revisit if there isn't much scum being lynched though
dannflor/nd agree
iirc most people got their strongest townreads on krazy from early in the game; did you get a scumread on him from there, or was it a lack of a townread type of thing, or was it something else entirely?
I think moment/thebrie is town yeah

I think we're mostly melded, I think it's just the rest are more wishy-washy reads which is probably fine since those are probably the slots that are most likely to get lynched first anyways
dt just feels like scum at this point

[Ankamius]

holy shit I fucked that up badly

can I redo that

[Ankamius]

honestly RC, the fact that our reads are aligning like this is making me a lot less paranoid of you