From our Discord channel:
Volxen:
viewtopic.php?p=10655271#p10655271
Mewtaph does shade both Nico Robin (Jjh) and Pint in that post.
viewtopic.php?p=10655752#p10655752
Alchemist basically copies ProFlavor's read list, and just takes the non-commital stance of "everyone is towny or null"
viewtopic.php?p=10655979#p10655979
Pint criticizes URAP2 for putting Nico Robin (Jjh) at L-1
So pint apparently think it's scummy to put Nico at L-1 at around the page 36 mark, but doesn't find it scummy that Alchemist put STW to L-2 on page 5.
Skimming through the first 36 pages so far, the biggest points against Mewtaph so far would be 1) that he shaded both Nico/Jjh ant Pint in one post and 2) he lurked and didn’t really do or contribute much of anything.
Mewtaph has been consistently on Alchemist since the beginning
viewtopic.php?p=10656699#p10656699
We know that Pint and Jjh are scum. Do you think scum!Mewtaph would shade both of his partners in one post like that?
"I'm not taking Pint having to push his content back as scum indicative but I'm saying it would've been bad if posts along those lines continued, which I guess is pointless now."
His whole bit about saying that Pint "has" to push his content back does seem off/strange.
viewtopic.php?p=10657350#p10657350
And once again, Alchemist takes a non-committal stance. "it's as likely as any other scenario"
viewtopic.php?p=10658342#p10658342
I do feel like Mew made some valid points there
Up through page 45, and Alchemist is one of the most non-committal players, and he seems to be very comfortable being on the sidelines and letting other people go at it.
But the fact that Mewtaph shaded both Nico/Jjh and Pint in one post so early on was definitely pingy.
viewtopic.php?p=10659297#p10659297
Alchemist soft defends Nico/Jjh for voting for STW; claims she voted for for STW just to avoid getting prodded as opposed to it being a serious vote based on Nico actually scumreading STW. Even though Nico never said that was the case,
viewtopic.php?p=10660890#p10660890
Lmfao, wtf? "up for policy lynching Nancy"
That is like face-palm bad.
Interesting how Mew abandoned his Alch push to join STW wagon after STW said that he would be fine with lynching either Nico/Jjh or Mewtaph.
viewtopic.php?p=10660915#p10660915
Mewtaph now has Pint as a townread, claims that Nico/Jjh would be a bad lynch on day one because it would be a "no info" lynch, but doesn't give any reasoning beyond that for not wanting to lynch Nico/Jjh.
viewtopic.php?p=10660921#p10660921
Mew gives an extremely bad justification for being "OK" with a policy lynch on Nancy.
viewtopic.php?p=10660933#p10660933
Bad shading of STW; could be scum!Mew trying to further justify keeping his vote on STW.
Volxen:
I was hoping the playerlist movements might help us sort Mewtaph vs Alchemist, but they both have been consistently at the bottom of the player list. The major difference is that Alchemist started a few spots above the very bottom, and then after night one he has been consistently at the very bottom of the player list. Mewtaph started at the top of the player list (pos 3), and then after night one he moved all the way down towards the bottom of the player list, and since day two he has been one spot above Alchemist.
Interestingly, Varsoon was at the bottom of the player list, so Mewtaph moved all the way from the top to the bottom of the playerlist, where Varsoon initially was at the beginning of day one.
Neither of them ever flew over Almost Chara, so no way to clear either one of them that way.
Well I mean technically Mewtaph flew over Almost Chara on night one, BUT for night one Almost Chara had to move and root. Night one was the only night where Almost Chara could NOT have killed a scum air unit that flew over them.
I think the scum air unit was likely informed about their being a town-aligned anti-air unit
So if Mewtaph is scum, he knew after night one he couldn't safely move across the player list. Night one was his only opportunity to safely make a big movement across the playerlist without any risk of getting shot down.
Strange how he wants to move all the way from the top to the bottom of the player list on night one, then starting night two he's content to stay right where he is, as the second to last person on the playerlist, right above Alchemist.
it will be even more telling if he makes a big movement in the playerlist tonight, after AC has already been nightkilled.
But then again, Varsoon was initially at the very bottom of the player list, and after night one Alchemist took his place at the very bottom of the player list.
Volxen:
Then again, if scum were informed about a town-aligned anti-air unit, but they didn't know that they couldn't shoot anyone down on night one, then scum!Mewtaph definitely wouldn't have flown from the top all the way down to the bottom of the player list on night one.
That's way too risky for a scum air unit to do that, unless they knew specifically that the town-aligned anti-air unit couldn't shoot anyone down on night one.
In that sense, Alchemist has been much more "conservative" than Mewtaph. Always near or close to the very bottom of the player list.
Volxen:
viewtopic.php?p=10658090#p10658090
Nancy points out possible distancing between Mewtaph and Pint, and she really wanted to lynch Mewtaph a lot on day one, even moreso than ProFlavor. That could be a large part of why she was nightkilled.
Creature was lynched on day two, and Taly (Creature's predecessor) had {Pint, Mewtaph, Nico(Jjh)} in his scum pile by POE. But then again Creature thought... we were scum, so I don't know.
viewtopic.php?p=10658155#p10658155
.
viewtopic.php?p=10658228#p10658228
Nancy called out the entire scumteam here if it's {Mew, Pint, Nico{jjh}. She also listed Koki here, but he was a lesser scumread for her than Mew/Pint/Nico{JJh}.
viewtopic.php?p=10658237#p10658237
URAP2 was willing to lynch Mewtaph on day one; gets nightkilled on night two.
viewtopic.php?p=10659064#p10659064
Nancy hard cases Nico to establish that her vote on STW is more likely to scum from scum!Nico than town!Nico (because town!Nico is apparently more cautious/hesitant to vote)
viewtopic.php?p=10659294#p10659294
We had our vote on Nico at the time, and Alchemist tried to "redirect" us away from Nico/Jjh to Mewtaph.
viewtopic.php?p=10659424#p10659424
Nancy calls out Mewtaph again
Mewtaph abandons his "push" on Alchemist as soon as ProFlavor voted for him and put him at L-1; this is when Mewtaph switched his vote from Alchemist to STW. He claims he "didn't have the thread presence to push Alchemist".
viewtopic.php?p=10660931#p10660931
So Mewtaph is all over the place -- first he's hard pushing Alchemist, then he inserts himself onto the STW wagon, and then talks about also being willing to wagon Almost Chara.
viewtopic.php?p=10660938#p10660938
Mewtaph avoided your question and gave a bad reason for "not being able" to respond to Alchemist.
viewtopic.php?p=10660940#p10660940
Flavor Leaf believed that Mewtaph was town; removes Profii's L-1 vote.
If the scumteam is {Mewtaph, Pint, Nico/Jjh}, then that means ProFlavors wagon at the end of day one was an all-town wagon, because Mewtaph and Pint were both on the STW wagon, and Jjh was not voting. Flavor Leaf saved Mewtaph from getting lynched and was townreading him; STW was scumreading Mewtaph. So perhaps scum had a vested interest in supporting the STW wagon instead of the ProFlavor wagon, because STW had better reads than ProFlavor?
viewtopic.php?p=10660946#p10660946
Some of the wording here feels fake like "constraining original thought process in the thread" -- what is that even supposed to mean?
And "vectors of attack almost entirely created to protect their TR"
Something about that wording feels fake
Im wondering if, Pint originally townread STW because they are friends
So he "townreads" STW because he genuinely likes The Worst, but then when he sees that STW is hard scumreading Mewtaph, he decides it's best to do a complete 180 on his previous townread of STW and go ahead and support his lynch.
viewtopic.php?p=10661016#p10661016
Just one of many examples of STW calling out Mewtaph on wolfing
.
Could just be a really odd coincidence, but Mewtaph and Pint both used that phrase "whoosh"
viewtopic.php?p=10661025#p10661025
viewtopic.php?p=10661028#p10661028
Mewtaph Literally admits to not wanting to bother sorting STW's slot, then talks about ducking out of the thread.
And he says he doesn't want any part of this
viewtopic.php?p=10661465#p10661465
Varsoon hard defends Mewtaph and calls the wagon on him bad -- could be a large part of why he wasn't nightkilled despite his vig claim on day one.
Volxen:
viewtopic.php?p=10661777#p10661777
Mewtaph throws shade at us because you said a Nico scum flip would be good/informative
In that same post he townreads Pint and talks about how Pint might be a future mislynch, which literally makes zero sense considering no one was even pushing him at the time.
viewtopic.php?p=10661781#p10661781
Varsoon doubles down on his Mewtaph townread -- and he has survived three night phases after claiming Vig. Coincidence?
"Nancy is acting as a huge obstacle to me pushing him at all and reflecting votes onto me in a very destructive manner"
viewtopic.php?p=10660921#p10660921
That may be one of the most ridiculous sentences I've ever seen in a mafia game.
viewtopic.php?p=10662398#p10662398
Mewtaph talks about "diffusing hostility between Meph and STW", but there was literally never any hostility between them, and Nancy calls Mewtaph out of this.
viewtopic.php?p=10662524#p10662524 URAP2 again calls out Mewtaph on being fake
viewtopic.php?p=10662568#p10662568
Nancy was townreading Alchemist for meta reasons -- his posting in this game on day one was apparently similar to how he posted in another game they played together. Not sure I would put too much stock in this though, considering it's a meta read based on one game.
Volxen:
viewtopic.php?p=10662721#p10662721
Nancy points out that Mewtaph's reaction to his wagon on day one in this game was completely different than how he reacted to getting wagoned as town in their last game together.
viewtopic.php?p=10662742#p10662742
Flavor Leaf calls Mewtaph the towniest person in the game
Volxen:
viewtopic.php?p=10664419#p10664419
This was just a bizzare, if not wolfy, pop in from Mewtaph
At the time he made that post, he hadn't posted in the thread for about 30 hours
He pops in to say "why start a wagon on Pint"? when only two people were voting for Pint, and the real wagons being talked about were STW and Mewtaph.
So he pops into..... preemptively discourage a non-existent wagon on Pint
That seems like it could be very scum partner indicative
Why does town!Mewtaph pop in to the thread after 30 hours of not posting to discourage a wagon on Pint when that wasn't even really happening?
viewtopic.php?p=10664442#p10664442
URAP2 calls Mewtaph out on this as well
viewtopic.php?p=10664461#p10664461
Mewtaph is really critical, and almost seems concerned with URAP2 bringing up Pint's name as a scumread
viewtopic.php?p=10664610#p10664610
That's wolfy as fuck lmfao
"Yeah, I'm not super passionate about STW being scum enough to case them, but ultimately I'm comfortable with voting there considering momentum elsewhere seems dubious."
So he pops in
preemptively discourages a wagon on Pint
Claims he is townreading Pint
But then after URAP2 votes for Pint, Mewtaph joins in and votes pint
I think he know realistically, though, that Pint wouldn't be lynched
Because of how hard Varsoon was pushing STW
viewtopic.php?p=10664644#p10664644
viewtopic.php?p=10664654#p10664654
Lmfao
Just Lmfao.
viewtopic.php?p=10664713#p10664713
Just 30 minutes after putting his vote on Pint, he puts it back on STW and says "eh not feeling it" (in reference to his previous vote on Pint)
Distancing vote but he wasn't willing to bus Pint
viewtopic.php?p=10664753#p10664753
STW had both Nico/Jjh in his scum pile VIA POE; he didn't have a strong read on Pint, but I think that was mainly because Pint was recovering from surgery on day one. But it does make sense scum would want to take him out.
There are so many bad things in Mewtaph's ISO in the first 64 pages it's unreal.
Nancy has by far the most accurate reads in the first 64 pages, no wonder she was nightkilled. Like for example here, she talks about how if she where to remove her vote on Mewtaph, it would be to put it on Nico/Jjh instead:
viewtopic.php?p=10664757#p10664757
viewtopic.php?p=10664837#p10664837
Nancy directly ties Mew's alignment's to Pint's alignment. "if one flips red, the other most likely flips red"
Volxen:
viewtopic.php?p=10665126#p10665126
Alchemist state's that he's willing to "compromise" and vote for Koki even though he thinks Koki will probably flip green and be a low-info lynch.
viewtopic.php?p=10665205#p10665205
Once again, Nancy states that's Mew's alignment is directly tied to Pint's alignment
First half of the game has me convinced that the scumteam is {Pint, Mewtaph, Jjh}, and that Alchemist unfortunately posts/plays in a way where he inadvertently makes himself look sketchy (by being non-committal, etc.). There's a ton of associative tells between Mewtaph and {Pint, Nico/Jjh}, especially between Mewtaph and Pint particular. But I'll skim through the whole game.
viewtopic.php?p=10665228#p10665228
So Pint claims that Mew had "done nothing" (false), and then based on that claims that the wagon is bad and "Mew is probably town being pushed by scum for an easy mislynch".
This was just blatantly false, because the people who were voting for Mewtaph made it very clear why they were doing so.
And lol, he acts like he is completely oblivious to the fact that STW was wagoned
He basically used your question to him ("What do you think of Mewtaph") to discourage/discredit the wagon on Mewtaph, without giving any explanation as to WHY he is townreading Mewtaph. The only thing he said was that Mewtaph had done nothing, and that..... led him to townread Mewtaph.
So Pint steps in to discourage the very real Mewtaph wagon that was forming as the counter-wagon to STW
Previously, Mewtaph stepped in to discourage a wagon from forming on Pint, when there really wasn't even a threat of that happening.
Mewtaph puts his vote on Pint for 30 minutes, then put's it back on STW.
Tons and tons of interactions that look they are obviously scum partners.
Volxen:
viewtopic.php?p=10665289#p10665289
Once again Nancy states that Mew and Pint are the same alignment
Volxen:
viewtopic.php?p=10665458#p10665458
Nancy brings up meta to suggest scum!Mew
She brought up a "rudeness tell" for Mew, that he is more aggressive, and in some cases downright rude, as scum.
Volxen:
viewtopic.php?p=10665857#p10665857
Pint talks about how URAP2 has "redeemed himself” but doesn't unvote him and keeps his vote on him for an entire day.
Auro:
So Pint+Mewtaph?
Volxen:
It definitely looks that way from the first 73 pages, but I'll keep going and pointing out scummy things. But Alch so far doesn't really have any strong asscoatives with either Nico or Pint, whereas there are clear associatives between Mewtaph and Nico/Jjh and Pint (in addition to just his general scummy behavior).
Nancy repeatedly said Alchemist was town, and Almost Chara's dying words were "Firebringer and Alchemist are town", so that's worth taking into account.
To quote The Worst, when viewed "holistically" Mewtaph absolutely has more scum equity than Alchemist.
viewtopic.php?p=10665913#p10665913
Pint chainsaw defends Mewtaph by attacking Alch here
He says that Alch's vote on Mewtaph was "OMGUSy"
viewtopic.php?p=10665981#p10665981
Fair point from Alch; Mew did put his vote on Alch at the beginning of RVS, and kept it there for a long time so if he is scum he was coming up with reasons to justify keeping his RVS vote on Alch.
Volxen:
viewtopic.php?p=10666207#p10666207
Pint defends Mewtaph by tying his alignment to ProFlavor's alignment, argues that the only way Mewtaph is scum is if he is scum with ProFlavor.
viewtopic.php?p=10666897#p10666897
No one had even close as accurate of reads as Nancy did on day one; has the entire scumteam plus one other person (ProFlavor) in her scum pile
viewtopic.php?p=10666944#p10666944
viewtopic.php?p=10667190#p10667190
Pint does some light distancing of Nico, but never pursues it but doubles down on wanting to lynch us (before joining the STW wagon)
At that time he also states,
"Scum is in {Creature, jjh, Kokichi, Michael Scott}"
Not much later, he is on the STW wagon
viewtopic.php?p=10667198#p10667198
Pint defends Mewtaph, says his reaction to his wagon was "great", and regurgitates an earlier point made by you that Nancy defends her townreads by attacking whoever scumreads them.
viewtopic.php?p=10667200#p10667200
Pint uses Alch's reaction to Mewtaph to further try and establish Mewtaph as town ("Mew and Alch are TvT")
viewtopic.php?p=10667202#p10667202
Pint is just being hypocritical here, because Pint himself was in Varsoon's list of players "not taking a stance"
viewtopic.php?p=10667218#p10667218
Pint says STW would be a "compromise lynch"
viewtopic.php?p=10667224#p10667224
Pint points out that Mewtaph voted for him and then quickly changes his vote to STW, and says "not good" -- but that it, he's implying it was scummy for Mewtaph to do that, but doesn't vote him
viewtopic.php?p=10667240#p10667240
Pint says he "changed his mind" and votes for STW with literally no reason listed
And this was just after he shaded Mewtaph a bit
viewtopic.php?p=10667261#p10667261
Pint lists Meph's slot as a townread "mainly because of Ari's posting", even though Nancy posted 90%+ of the content from that slot.
viewtopic.php?p=10667955#p10667955
But I called him out on his 180 on STW, and he still never explained why he did a 180 on STW and started scumreading him, only saying that his previous reads were "lazy"
viewtopic.php?p=10667961#p10667961
Pint chainsaw defends Mewtaph again
Volxen:
viewtopic.php?p=10668803#p10668803
Pint never explains what "associations" between us and STW made him look like scum and never had an original reason of his own for joining the STW wagon.
So his whole strategy was to had pocket ProFlavor, who was in turn hard pocketing Varsoon. He keeps regurgitating points brought up by ProFlavor to defend his transition onto the STW wagon.
Auro:
Pocket ProFlavor, make shitty pushes and keep retracting them, try to look townie in general
There's no real scumhunting in his ISO
But that's an accusation we can make of other slots too, lol
Volxen:
And the only reason ProFlavor thought we could be scum with STW is because we didn't want to vote him, I mean that LITERALY was all there was to it -- and Pint immediately jumped on this bad reasoning to justify his own vote for STW, by saying ProFlavor made a strong case for a scum!Michael Scott + scum!STW team.
Auro:
Pre-flip associatives are stupid.
ProFlavor's argument itself was terrible.
I've never seen anything more circular.
I called him out on it D1, lol
Volxen:
And Pint knew ProFlavor would come out looking bad, because he was the one to make the argument, and Pint just agreed with it.
viewtopic.php?p=10668834#p10668834
Pint again admits he doesn't have an original reason for scumreading STW ("I'm scumreading you because of what other people said")
Auro:
Exactly, he was just coasting.
Not really scumhunting, just sheeping the wrong people, generally coasting.
We've been very clear with our hunting and pushes.
I hope Firebringer will see that.
Volxen:
I do wish Alchemist would have towned it up more, he could made this easier on us...
Auro:
Constant paranoia on our slot didn't help
Volxen:
Hm, another thing I noticed is that at the end of day 1, Mewtaph was at top the of list (pos 2), Pint was in the middle (6), but then after night one Pint moved to the very top of the list (pos 1), and Mewtaph moved to the second-to-bottom of the list (above Alchemist, who was at the very bottom). While Jjh stayed in the middle-ish of the list, around spot 8.
So they clearly wanted to spread out across the playerlist, probably because it benefits certain actions they have
Mewtaph must have been informed that night one was his only chance to safely move across the playerlist with no risk of getting shot down
viewtopic.php?p=10673947#p10673947
This felt extremely wolfy, his first post of the day is to automatically assume that scum nightkilled Nancy specifically to frame him (Mewtaph that is)
And he called Nancy obvtown in that post after previously wanting to policy lynch her lol, sigh
Volxen:
viewtopic.php?p=10675510#p10675510
Pint lightly shades Jjh
Volxen:
viewtopic.php?p=10677670#p10677670
Pint votes for Creature and joins the wagon with no reason of his own -- just mentions that Creature should be prodded.
viewtopic.php?p=10677688#p10677688
viewtopic.php?p=10677693#p10677693
Alchemist talks about wanting to wagon Mewtaph again; Pint immediately steps in to say Mewtaph is town.
viewtopic.php?p=10677760#p10677760
Pint immediately jumps on board with Mewtaph's theory that scum nightkilled Nancy to frame Mewtaph.
If successful, this allows them to 1) "get away" with nightkilling one of the strongest/most dangerous town players (Nancy) and 2) at the same time use it to try and townlock Mewtaph via the theory that he is being framed as opposed to scum taking out the greatest threat to Mewtaph
viewtopic.php?p=10677820#p10677820
Good point Alch brought up in response to Pint ("why would scum!Mewtaph leave Nancy alive if he is afraid of presure?")
viewtopic.php?p=10677853#p10677853
Pint continues to use Nancy's nightkill to 1) establish Mewtaph as locktown who is being framed and 2) to establish us and Creature as scum
Notice how Mewtaph just simply came out and said "Hey I think I'm being framed"
Then Pint takes that and expands on that and turns it into essentially an essay on why Mewtaph is being framed, and how simultaneously that Nancy's nightkill proves that she was wrong on one of her scumreads (Mewtaph), and wrong on two of her townreads (Michael Scott and Creature).
viewtopic.php?p=10678419#p10678419
Something along these lines might explain why Mewtaph moved all the way down in the playerlist towards Varsoon's original position. Perhaps that somehow would protect scum from a vigkill, by having Mewtaph close to Varsoon. But after Varsoon moved on night one, he couldn't move again to try to get close to Varsoon again because starting night two, AC would have shot Mewtaph if he had flown over them.
Volxen:
viewtopic.php?p=10680666#p10680666
Pint defends Mewtaph flying all the way down to the bottom of the list
viewtopic.php?p=10680697#p10680697
Pint says he doesn't like the Creature wagon, yet he is on it and doesn't really seem to want to change anything or start another wagon
viewtopic.php?p=10680915#p10680915
Mewtaph sheep's Varrsoon and Creature onto our wagon with no explanation given
Auro:
Mewtaph was on jjh wagon too though
You think they were bussing?
Volxen:
viewtopic.php?p=10682589#p10682589
Pint shades Jjh (again)
viewtopic.php?p=10682777#p10682777
Mewtaph votes Jjh
Yes, shading/distancing
Auro:
Bussing. jjh was the counterwagon to Creature
And it totally could've gone through.
Volxen:
I think they genuinely didn't care about losing Jjh, because he was like 100% disengaged from the game anyways
Auro:
Hmm, maybe.
Volxen:
They figured he would probably be going at some point anyways
Interesting how Pint's shade post was essentially used a springboard by Mew to vote for Jjh
The two posts were back-to-back
viewtopic.php?p=10683166#p10683166
Jjh shades Pintu
viewtopic.php?p=10683181#p10683181
Pint continues to shade Jjh
But doesn't vote him -- I don't think Mewtaph and Pint would both want to be on Jjh's wagon for VCA reasons, safer to have one scum bus and the other stay off the wagon.