Newbie 1913 - game over!!

[xwing]

I think akagami has good town cred for not voting despitr having like 4 ppl vote before them and itd be easy and tempting to just rvs someone as a wolf

hey doubtingthomas, can i refer to you as DT?
i'll give a slight town lean on this slot, seems eager to solve..
dont agree with giving town cred on shanks for above..though it's very early in the game still..

Volxen. Im wondering how fast is your typing speed. It felt weird that transition from lynching the mod to starting a random vote. And it all happened in seven minutes. Why didnt you include both in same message or was that an afterthought. Or did you do that to seperate the joke from the real part. Still I find it a little fishy that that happened in seven minutes.

VOTE: volxen

hmmm..feels reachy, but meh..

VOTE: brass
let's wagon the IC..

[xwing]

[snip]
VOTE: brass
let's wagon the IC..

Why vote for Brass and put him at three votes (L-2) on the second page of the game? Just because he is the IC?

why not? also, the second question is meeeeeeeh..

Also, why the townlean for DoubtingThomas specifically? Do you feel he is more eager to solve the game than everyone else who has posted so far?

at that point, yes

"Let's wagon the IC" has similar meaning to "Let's lynch the IC" which implies that you want at least one more person after you to lynch the IC which would put them in L-1.

VOTE: xwing

(Also, one more question, if you think that was reachy why didn't you vote me or try to apply pressure. you've just seen something that you deem as scummy. are you going to let it get away!!)

wagoning does not equate to lynch..did i say that anywhere or are you purposely misrepping me?
i said it was reachy, i didnt say it was scummy..what kind of cases do you expect by page 2?

I find it unlikely that players would admit to liking to play scum. Being a dangerous scum player would increase the likelyhood of being lynched on that basis alone.

i think this is a case to case basis, i know people who will outright say they enjoy playing scum..but that's not alignment indicative (NAI) at all..i prefer playing VT as well..

[xwing]

Do you really think this was an attempt to try get people to lynch the IC? Why don't you think it was just typical day 1 pressure or even a little bit of kidding around?

ooooh..
so roo, is that how you took my post?
if i told you i wasn't kidding, would your view change?

[xwing]

sorry, i messed up the tags, redoing..

[snip]
VOTE: brass
let's wagon the IC..

Why vote for Brass and put him at three votes (L-2) on the second page of the game? Just because he is the IC?

why not? also, the second question is meeeeeeeh..

Also, why the townlean for DoubtingThomas specifically? Do you feel he is more eager to solve the game than everyone else who has posted so far?

at that point, yes

"Let's wagon the IC" has similar meaning to "Let's lynch the IC" which implies that you want at least one more person after you to lynch the IC which would put them in L-1.

VOTE: xwing

(Also, one more question, if you think that was reachy why didn't you vote me or try to apply pressure. you've just seen something that you deem as scummy. are you going to let it get away!!)

wagoning does not equate to lynch..did i say that anywhere or are you purposely misrepping me?
i said it was reachy, i didnt say it was scummy..what kind of cases do you expect by page 2?
do you think what you did was scummy?

I find it unlikely that players would admit to liking to play scum. Being a dangerous scum player would increase the likelyhood of being lynched on that basis alone.

i think this is a case to case basis, i know people who will outright say they enjoy playing scum..but that's not alignment indicative (NAI) at all..i prefer playing VT as well..

[xwing]

@xwing you know what they say about opinions.

i searched the forum but didnt have the patience to go through the search results after page 1..you dont have to believe me, but i think the other SE's/IC's can verify that some players prefer to play as scum, and will not be afraid to say so in an active game..so it's really NAI..
i mean look at it inversely..brass or me saying we prefer VT/cop/vigilante doesn't make us town this game right..

[xwing]

[snip]
But what doesn't sit right with me is, that they asked for a bandwagon after putting IC to L-2 without mentioning that it is L-2. Though they did post it after a votecount. It wasn't that obvious that brass was in danger of being lynched.

i know this isnt addressed to me, so im just gonna ask the last part..
do you mean if i indicated that it was L-2, it would be fine with you?
so is your issue with my vote being the unannounced L-2? or the appeal to wagon the IC?

wagoning does not equate to lynch..did i say that anywhere or are you purposely misrepping me?
i said it was reachy, i didnt say it was scummy.. what kind of cases do you expect by page 2?

Wagoning does equate to voting. I do tend to say lynching a lot when I mean "lynch voting" by it. I thought it was clear from my message.

Or by "lynch" do you mean "lynch votes" as well? I'm pretty sure that you can't wagon without voting. What did you expect from suggesting to bandwagon brass? If another person hops on the bandwagon then they'd be at L-1 so early in the game.

I think that the definition of reachy is "Use small cases in order to get someone lynched(killed) without proper reasons", or "Trying to find any reasons however small to get a specific person to get lynched". I consider that as leaning on the scummy side. (Couldn't really find any documentation on its meaning), What do you think its meaning is?

do you think what you did was scummy?

Hmm, nope. And I don't think it was reachy based on what I think reachy means.

huh..if by your definition it wasn't scummy, why would you want me to vote for it, when i said it was reachy, but i didnt say it was scummy?
reachy reasoning for me means it's a stretch..
so for me yes your reasoning on suspecting volxen based on 7-minute joke is reachy, but i didnt find it scummy at that point, hence the "meh" comment..
whether you are trying to get someone lynched or not doesn't make it any more or less reachy..

@brass, Do you have anything to say/any reads? You haven't been generating a lot of in-game content so far, if any.

I play things close to the chest early for sure. That being said, I random voted Roo early because it was early to type, but I haven't liked his interactions too much and so I haven't moved my vote.

The super defensive response to someone asking about an L-2 wagon on me makes me uneasy.

^i concur..

[xwing]

Wagoning does equate to voting. I do tend to say lynching a lot when I mean "lynch voting" by it. I thought it was clear from my message.

Or by "lynch" do you mean "lynch votes" as well? I'm pretty sure that you can't wagon without voting. What did you expect from suggesting to bandwagon brass? If another person hops on the bandwagon then they'd be at L-1 so early in the game.

sorry, forgot to comment on the rest of your reply to me..
a wagon does not result in a lynch if there are not enough votes on it..
a wagon is indeed needed to get a lynch, but will not always result in one (see above)..
i dont understand what you mean by "lynch vote" compared to just a "vote"..

i'll throw the question back at you..what do you think can be achieved by forming a wagon? i even specifically chose the IC, who is the most experienced player among all of us..
my action loses it's power by me needing to explain it..

[xwing]

Roo, you're being unusually quiet. Perhaps a little pressure on your wagon will get your tongue wagging.

VOTE: Roo

hey l8, what do you think of the rest of the player list?

[xwing]

The real problem is that we have too many singleton wagons. No pressure from those

join me on saint, then?
VOTE: saint

[xwing]

@yellow: excluding IC-related talk, how do you feel has brass been helpful?

[xwing]

okay, fair enough..

[xwing]

@roo, what are your thoughts on all the players?

[xwing]

I don't feel comfortable lynching the IC on the first day unless they make a major blunder, let's put it that way.

why? what makes you uncomfy?

[xwing]

@l8:
i feel like saint's got no original reasoning, mainly pushing what others have stated..
his first vote on hearth was echoing what i thought..
his second vote was on blank (not sure if it technically counted coz of the formatting, but the intent was there), who was inactive/site flaked..
his third vote on roo was echoing what others were saying..
he's not even engaging tried to engage them..
so his votes also feel opportunistic and just wanting a lynch instead of trying to sort..

@yellow:
okay..but we do have SEs who can help out with this as well..so that shouldn't be so concerning? besides, day1 lasts like 10 days so the IC can dish out a lot of info by then, dont you think?

pedit: i think who majority thinks as scum should be lynched d1, regardless if they're IC or not..

[xwing]

how about a yellow-saint scum team?

[xwing]

EBWOP (acronym meaning can be found on brass' link):
sorry i was stuck on page 5, didnt notice we were on page 6 already so i missed a couple of posts..
130 was directed at brass..

@brass, @yellow: what is town of salem like? is it not a forum mafia game as well?

[xwing]

fair enough with regards to yellow..
l8 is my strongest townread..
saint is obviously my scum read hence the vote..

[xwing]

@saint: please address post 142..

@hearth:
the purpose of the wagon on the IC is to see who would be willing to jump there when i never provided any reasoning..i intentionally did not explain because i didn't want to give away that it's a test if scum would pile on it..
this is a common tactic in this site, as vote count analysis (VCA) can be used to see who might be scum, though im not particularly good at this..
brass is IC and experienced enough to identify what it was, hence he's not really panicking, so it's not really a pressure on brass, but a test on the rest..
i chose the IC because mostly in newbie games, new players would likely think highly of the IC, so they would more likely wagon that as scum, i guess..

so roo being placed at L-1, means there is *likely to be at least one scum* on his wagon..(not an exact science, but the concept holds)

@volxen: how does your reads look like now, would be nice if you could include a short explanation too, thanks

[xwing]

so roo being placed at L-1, means there is *likely to be at least one scum* on his wagon..(not an exact science, but the concept holds)

If Roo is town that holds up reasonably well. If Roo is scum then the chances of his partner being elsewhere are better.

yup..take this with a grain of salt though, as in my last completed game, we got burned because of this thinking (it turned out a wagon we were analyzing was all-town)..

[xwing]

wait, that is an important point..

so based on the vote count (vc) on 150:

dt you got no votes on you at all..
while the leading wagon is saint with 3 votes, and the ones who voted for him in order was me, roo, then l8..
saint is at L-2, meaning it takes two more votes to achieve a lynch..
hope that's clear..

[xwing]

My bad for the late response to this one - long day at work. I had been typing this in between a couple of meetings and must have honestly gotten mixed up while reading it back through, no real excuse as to why I added Volxen or voted him.

I need to start re-reading what I type, especially if I'm going to try and post while at work apparently. My only "scum read" is on DT honestly, but I'm not completely sure about Yellow or Brass still.

sorry saint, im not sold on your explanation..
if it was a mistype or mix up, then you should had have just one scum read and not two?
also, DT and volxen are waaaay too distinct from each other to have them mixed up..
lastly, your reads are almost all null or back tracking..
like what's your case on DT? he's "pushing forward for info but then not really pushing"? i dont get what you're saying..

[xwing]

volxen, where are you right now with your reads?

[xwing]

@hearth:
to backtrack means to reverse your position on someone or something, but in a scummy/unnatural way..
also brass is right, drawing associations is far too early, i just combined my two biggest scum reads to make the scum team..hence saint-yellow..

@DT: this is important!!!
scum know who their fellow scum are, and they know everyone's alignment already..
they also have a private thread where they can communicate/interact at anytime (called daychat)..
what they dont know is who the town power roles (TPRs) are..
depending on the setup we are in though, they *may* have roles to find out who the PR is (e.g. mafia rolecop)..

i think DT may be town by virtue of townslip..

[xwing]

noted on your thoughts re the "townslip"..
im struggling a bit on the strength of my reads i guess so im trying to grasp at what i can to narrow my suspects..
im pretty sure brass and l8 are town though..
volxen *might* be town..

also brass, what if you want to quote multiple portions from singular post to put comments in between? is there no way but to quote the entire post then edit it? i usually copy-paste the whole "quote" at the start of every statement..

[xwing]

for illustration purposes, i want to easily accomplish something like this:

what reads do you have brass?

I feel like I just answered this one, and it seems this is the only question directed at me right now. Not too much change here.

yes, that's true

I like XWing for town, though, independent of there being too many scumspects.

yey!

That being said, I don't see a townslip from DT, and I will also remind people town slips can be faked, if it's even there.

duly noted..

pedit: oh okay, thanks brass!!

[xwing]

...What are you talking about? There are literally no townslips in any of DT's posts. And why are you telling DT all of this? He has been on this site for over 6 months and has played in several games, including multiple newbie games. So DT is well aware of all of the things that you are telling him here.

Please elaborate, because I don't understand why you directed all of that at DT.

well, he didnt know how to properly read the vote count.. 159
i dont check player profiles and metas so i didnt notice his join date and all..it just seemed to me that he's new..
also, i misread his wall posts, i thought he put that "as scum, you have to find other scum" (paraphrased) so it seemed like a townslip to me since scum have daychat and know everyone's alignments..
also, what are your reads? please dont make me ask you the fourth time..

[xwing]

see post 206 re townslip..

brass is active and engaged..
l8 is actively scumhunting..
volxen might be town for *reasons*..

i think your brass case might be a reach..there are other players here who are way scummier (e.g. saint-yellow), and your post haven't really convinced me to change my mind about brass..i think it's also more indicative for town to want more quality over quantity in posts, shows me that he wants to leave little room for misrep and fluff and makes your points easier to absorb..

you can ignore post 205, i was only trying to illustrate to brass what i wanted to accomplish using the quote function, and if he knew a better way..

@yellow: DT has now openly claimed he's good as scum..soooo what do you think about that?
@brass: well dt did make a good point..why am i town?

[xwing]

@xwing: which post?

excerpt from DT's post 186:
I am a pretty good wolf. Compared to my town game, I am a really good wolf. I have a pretty good win record as wolf (6-2? ish) and I have almost never been mislynched as a wolf (although I have been n1 vigged by towns two times by people who know my meta well)

[xwing]

i think DT may be town by virtue of townslip..

I'm not seeing it. Can you explain?

my bad, there's no slip..
excerpt from my post 206:

i misread his wall posts, i thought he put that "as scum, you have to find other scum" (paraphrased) so it seemed like a townslip to me since scum have daychat and know everyone's alignments..

[xwing]

I don't have definitive reads on everyone yet. At the moment I am quite suspicious of Saint based on what I wrote in post 218. Be rest assured I will share my reads as I start to develop more definitive reads on other slots.

I am town this game, but can you tell me why you are townreading me?

okay, will look forward to it..
mostly gut..i dont find most players here being obviously townie here so far..

[xwing]

@DT: i think your reaction is over the top as well..but i dont think you're that scummy yet..and when 3+ different people are calling you on it, i think it's a pretty legit observation..

[xwing]

I find it unlikely that players would admit to liking to play scum. Being a dangerous scum player would increase the likelyhood of being lynched on that basis alone.

@xwing: which post?

excerpt from DT's post 186:
I am a pretty good wolf. Compared to my town game, I am a really good wolf. I have a pretty good win record as wolf (6-2? ish) and I have almost never been mislynched as a wolf (although I have been n1 vigged by towns two times by people who know my meta well)

How is this claiming scum?

what are you talking about? @_@
where did we ever discuss about claiming scum?

[xwing]

btw who is Tall1s? he's not in the vote count, so is this somebody's alt?

[xwing]

my scum pool consists of the below, in order of most scummy:
{saint, yellow, hearth/DT}

i dont think roo is scum..i like his post 245..

im gonna be off soon, will return tuesday..im usually V/LA on weekends, plus it's a holiday on monday..

@mod: im gonna be V/LA on monday on top of my regular weekend off, quack quack!!

[xwing]

hey guys, im back from vacation..
im still fine with either a yellow or saint lynch, and im still suspecting DT/BlurryX slot..
i mostly skimmed and didnt see any questions directed at me though, so lemme know if i missed any questions for me..
i agree that yellow's defeatist attitude is anti-town, but not too sure if it's town or scum indicative..meta points are towards scum yellow though..

[xwing]

im still on saint..and i'd rather lynch saint..
im still fine to lynch yellow as we're on our last few hours though..

[xwing]

@brass
makes sense..
he's still at L-1?

@yellow
i also believe that lynching claimed VT is better than any other option we currently have..
what do you mean by "normal circumstances" then? why is your play here different than normal?

[xwing]

Antitown for sure. Antitown != scum though. Also, no intention for me to hammer as of yet. We will see how it looks in 24 hours.

how do things look now?

@yellow
do you have other scumreads that are not based on activity?

[xwing]

@yellow
my vote is still on saint right now, but unfortunately we dont have much time left, should have pushed harder before..
i think i believe you, and i think brass also might believe you, but time's not on our side..so you're our best option right now, since we know at the very least, we're not lynching a PR..would have been better if we could lynch mafia, but such is life..

also, can you summarize why l8 is scummy for you please?

lastly, im still pushing for saint's lynch..i dont like his post 404..
basically just reusing brass and mine's argument unto yellow..feels very icky to me..

@saint: what do your reads look like now?

[xwing]

how do you differentiate scumhunting and blending in?

[xwing]

im surprised with the hearth NK..i would think it was a lucky shot..
anyway, sorry yellow, time constraints..should have made votes earlier..
im still fine with this:

VOTE: saint

[xwing]

@Xwing
[snip]
I know that you later said this was a mistake, but at the time why did you think that DT might have townslipped?

please see post 206..
also, in post 202 i gave volxen a town read with no explanations..i suspected him to be PR but obviously i cant say it out loud..anyway he still ate the NK though..need to find if he crumbed who he will JK, as that would be a town clear..

As per Volxen's dying request, which I agree with entirely:

Please do not autolynch Saint!

I'd like to hear out all perspectives.

i still dont think brass is scum..i dont have much time to reread now, will do later maybe..
i still think saint is scum though..

[xwing]

did a quick ISO of volxen and didnt find any crumb on who he JK'd..lemme know if any of you find anything..whoever was JK'd last night is surely town..wished he hinted who though zzzzzzzzz..
l8 im quite sure is town..
i'm town..
saint, brass, roo, one of these is scum..
the two townies in you, gotta town spew..
i think brass is still town, but waffling on that coz of volxen's case on distancing, though im not so convinced of that case..

[xwing]

@roo, can you kindly explain your town read on my slot please, and why scum is saint/brass? i think your theory on scum!l8 is interesting, but i think it may be a bit of a stretch..taking into consideration the interactions afterward with volxen, i think i believe l8 didnt know self-hammers were allowed..

@saint: i dunno what your question is..i personally find your posts 477 and 478 very icky..
if i'm town, who's your next scum read and why?

[xwing]

okay, i'm highly satisfied, roo and l8 are definitely town..

(IF, though i highly doubt) that saint is town, whichever pair out of us 3 makes it to the end just lynch brass..

i'm fine to wait for brass, he might want to have his say too..
@brass, if you want to hammer saint when im not around, i'm fine with it, unless you really want my input or something..

@mod:

im V/LA on weekends, today is friday my time

[xwing]

im actually just tempted to hammer zzzzz..
must. control. urge. do. not. give. in.
i should prolly log off..

[xwing]

Saint, you are now at L-1

Please nobody hammer Saint just yet as I'd really like to hear from Brass.

oh yeah almost forgot you requested to hold off the hammer whew..
for formality's sake i guess:

@saint im declaring intent to hammer, though im not hammering you until brass comes back from V/LA..

please make your defense, and (a) scum case(s) on who you think is/are scummy..thanks!

[xwing]

my suggestion is, if saint goes into replace range, i will just hammer the slot, as majority of us have reached consensus that it's scummiest anyway..that way, there's no need for someone to replace into a heavily suspected slot..(or is that what you're saying already lol)..

or i can just hammer now if you're fine with it..

[xwing]

My scum lean is still xwing. People were making reads based on the interactions between brass and DT, but nobody mentioned the fact that outside of the single post from xwing there have been maybe two or three posts between the two slots. To me, this looks like a scum v scum distancing done to the extreme.

sorry, i didnt get what you mean here..can you please elaborate? do you mean that i didnt interact with DT besides two or three posts? is this your reason to find me scummier than any of the other 3 players? assuming i'm town, who would be other scum and why?

I'd like to look deeper into this, but it's not looking like I'll be able to stay off the noose long enough to see it through.
I have no scum reads from Roo or L8, at this point they're both still hunting past me while xwing has been b-lining for my lynch since d1.

what do you think of brass? what do you mean by "hunting past" you? why did you lean town on me when i've been on your tail ever since D1? i havent changed my stance at all.. why do you town read roo and l8?

[xwing]

oh no.. :-s
should i just lynch or wait for brass replacement..

[xwing]

okay im going for the hammer..
sorry l8, hope you dont mind..we tried to wait..

VOTE: saint

[xwing]

tw, thanks for the timely modding!! sorry we made you exert more effort trying to find a replacement..hope it didnt waste a lot of your time..and in fairness, brass did say he was coming back on the weekend..it's all gooooood..

good job town, almost flawless victory..
nice playing with you all!

[xwing]

i think the mafioso deliberately skipping the NKs of ICs and SEs was a smart move..interesting that hearth was NK'd though, but i was doubting that slot, so it actually helped my PoE..

l8, i think you played a strong town game..i really like the questioning at the end, applying the logic of saint against himself..but favorite move would be when you lured scum using me as bait..i think that was smart as..

[xwing]

i dunno why the dice favors volxen..
i havent played a PR role ever since i started..not that i've been in for long but yeah..
long time no hear, RCE..

@tw: can we kindly have the links to the PTs please?