Open 749 | Vengecop - Over!

[Draco Lucky]

VOTE: Micc
I'm staying on the knife-wielding penguin's good side =P

-U2

[Draco Lucky]

Is a second lynch more +ev than a scum directed nk (presumably on obv!town) + a cop check?

p.edit I guess you're still working that out, too.

I think regardless of whether we build consensus on following town's choice, people should probably indicate who they would prefer to have investigated upon mislynch. I nominate hurt tags

I can see no downside to gathering the extra data.



-U2

[Draco Lucky]

HURT: Draco Lucky

just like this! good job

[Draco Lucky]

-u2 rip

[Draco Lucky]

I think Xwing is Scum.

why?

-u2

[Draco Lucky]

At first I thought maybe Dannflor was pushing xwing to see if they reacted in the same manner they did last game in Mewtaph's mini. I thought it was a weird push given the play here was really similar but figured I'd let it go.

I don't like the reason for the unvote on xwing, it feels like it could be contrived.

The wagon vote on BBmolla for an RVS self-vote is what set me over the edge.

VOTE: Dannflor

Predit: Xwing...nope.

-Slaxx

[Draco Lucky]

What about #76 makes you feel that way?

@Xwing: It’s Slaxx.

I’m in a hydra.

-Slaxx

[Draco Lucky]

Okay. I think I get the xwing stuff.

Do we want to wait to talk about the BB stuff until he responds?

-Slaxx

[Draco Lucky]

@BBmolla, what are you hoping to get out of self voting in RVS?

Hopefully I can reveal scum

you already have

Care to share with the class?

-U2

[Draco Lucky]

@BBMolla, I feel like you might be trying to gain town cred by gambiting that you're willing to be lynched to reveal scum. But if you're town, why would you want to trade your life for the chance of revealing scum vs. going after someone else to start with?

for the fun of it

Gotten any reads out of it?

-U2

[Draco Lucky]

@BBmolla @0verki11

Would you folks please answer my questions? Thanks in advance.

-U2

[Draco Lucky]

@0verki11
Thank you for replying! What do you think about the argument put forth by Micc/PP that BBmolla isn't reading?

-U2

[Draco Lucky]

Not strongly, starting to now

Like Miccs vote on me is horrid

I'm not sure it was horrid. Let me ask it straight. Have you been reading every post, or have you been skipping around and skimming?

What inspired you to go back and read the thread when you asked PP about his reads list?

-U2

[Draco Lucky]

@PP
Are you scum reading BBmolla?

[Draco Lucky]

-U2 sry

[Draco Lucky]

@Dr Worm

You got any reads that you're fairly confident on? either on town or scum?

DR WORM, FRIEND! PLEASE for ME would you SHOUT your reads WITHOUT ANY CONTEXT OR EXPLANATION but roughly divided BETWEEN SCUM and NOT SCUM

I THANK YOU!

-U2

[Draco Lucky]

Was there a reason you asked me that?

Of course there was. You called BBmolla's vote on Dr Worm bad, you called his vote back on himself bad, and you insinuated that him playing at a slayers gambit of sorts was bad.

This is more than you've given on any other slot, but your vote is still on Micc. I wanted to know how you actually felt about him. I'm still digesting the response, but my initial reaction is that it's fine/slightly +town

-U2

[Draco Lucky]

oops Meant to say that you called his not reading while playing at a slayer's gambit of sorts was bad

-U2

[Draco Lucky]

You aren't reading.

What's fun is that you have commented on other stuff after that but still want to bring that up...

yes, you insinuated it. I mean, I guess maybe you weren't insinuating that. But in that case, I'm not sure why it is "fun"

-U2

[Draco Lucky]

U2 PLZ let DR WORM know when you FIND WHAT YOU ARE LOOKING FOR!!

Are you town reading PP, and scum reading Xwing and BBmolla? Are those the extent of your reads?

PAINGWEN GOOD? BB plus XWANG BAAAD?

-U2

[Draco Lucky]

This game is like pulling teeth
-U2

[Draco Lucky]

THIS WAS DR WORM JOKE about ROCK ROLL BANNED NAME U2!!

U2 has NEEEVER LISTENED to their MUSIC. ;P JOKE LOST ON HIM

-U2

[Draco Lucky]

There are several reasons it could be fun.

If I misinterpreted your statement, could you please just clarify it?

[Draco Lucky]

I'm good right now.

Can I take this to mean that I did misinterpret it? That you do not believe it is bad to make the self-vote play and then not read the thread in full?

[Draco Lucky]

last two by u2, sry again

[Draco Lucky]

Skimming

You or someone asked me what I learned so I went back to read the things I didn’t notice

This makes sense to me. I was the one who asked.

But then why is Micc's vote on you horrid? You claimed to be hunting for reactions, but you clearly (and now admittedly) weren't reading the thread very carefully. Do you think it is unlikely that town!micc would scum read you for this? If so, why?

-U2

[Draco Lucky]

210 is really underwhelming. =/

-U2

[Draco Lucky]

pls no wall...

I post walls so I can remember shit, its actually more for my benefit that yours.

Spoiler: spoiled for space

Firstly, I dont know if this has been addressed, but under no circumstances do we give someone a target to check if they flip town, mafia will just kill them if they are town.

VOTE: BBmolla

Self vote rant reeeeeeeeeee. Not a fan of them

I'll probably play the game only the way it is supposed to be played: through normal scumhunting.

Gut says town

I think Xwing is Scum.

why?
-u2

Trying to end fun RVS time and trying to look town!

Not needed

Wont know till I reveal them duh doy

As long as you town read me, that's all that matters anyway.

Dont really like this post either

We should lynch Draco a d if Draco town Draco then picks xwing.

Dont discuss targets, just leave them to do it.

We should lynch Draco a d if Draco town Draco then picks xwing.

Both these slots are town imo

UNVOTE: BBMolla

He's not quite towny but he's definitely not scum. I just don't see the scum motivation for entering the game with a self vote, drawing all that attention, and then continuing to play the way he's playing. My theory was that it was a play for town cred by acting as if he'd be okay with his lynch because he'd get an investigation. But that doesn't really fit with his play of "looking for reactions" + not reading the thread. It's sloppy play, and I think mafia would be more careful here, particularly since they entered the game with such a risky move.

Vedith, is this where your lock town on BBmolla is coming from? Also, why is Draco a scum read

Please dont tell me this is unironic TWTBAW


I swear there was actually more content but nvm.

@0verki11
What part(s) of this wall post did you put in because you want to remember them later?

[Draco Lucky]

-U2 damn im bad at this

[Draco Lucky]

Can someone sell me on the Dannflor wagon? I think I like it but am having a hard time putting words to why.

Nah.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: OverKill

I took a day off and reread the thread. I was confbiasing on Dann and U2 talked me out of it. There is a lot of LAMIST coming from OK with basically no reasoning for any of the few stances they have taken.

Also, there's one really bad vote over the past page or two that indicates a possible buddy. But we will let that stew for a bit.

-Slaxx

[Draco Lucky]

Slaxx and I finally got a chance to compare reads this evening for a couple minutes, so here's where we're at. Apparently I'm in a verbose mood this evening, so I spoiled this monster for your convenience.

Spoiler: Town Reads

Town, in no particular order:
Xwing - Slaxx is reading Xwing town. I've got Xwing as a light town read, but I haven't seen anything super indicative here yet. That read augments a sheep of slaxx on this slot because of his experience with Xwing

Creature - Apparently creature is an easy read, but I don't know the tell yet. Slaxx has creature town.

Micc - We are both reading Micc as town. I shared his reaction in 62. I think his BBmolla is both reasonable and well within an average town range. His read on creature probably makes sense from either alignment if creature is considered an easy read. Slight concern that the town read on us is a pocket attempt given the lack of reasons for either town read. Lynch pool is people playing - let's call it whimsically - and Dannflor which could be a cop out but also isn't a terrible world view given both D1 play and the nature of the setup incentivizing mechanical sorting of non straight forward reads. And I can't argue with his null reads at the time 186 was written, plus the reasoning seems fine in 204.

Vedith - I'm townreading Vedith and Slaxx is null on him. He's a.. whimsical player but I town read his turn around during the setup spec discussion. I town read his reaction test laden play slightly. I town read 208, 211, 220 and 222 Basically every post where he's playing with a more serious demeanor I town read.

Dr. Worm - we both read dr. worm as town. I like 196 and for correcting me on his PP read in 163. I wouldn't take this read to the bank right now, but I do believe that Dr Worm is posting AI-content in spite of his play style and will only become more readable with time.

Spoiler: Dissonance Reads

Dissonance Reads:
We disagree on BBMolla. I see a lot of his play being personality-indicative rather than AI, including his self-vote. (self esteem issues? jk <3 ) That said, I think his entire game so far is within an average scum range when personality is taken into account. This isn't a strong read because I don't think anything is necessarily outside of his town range, but I think this play probably comes from scum!molla more often than it comes from town!molla.
Slaxx disagrees, tho, and has BBmolla as a town read.

Spoiler: Scum Reads

Scum:
0verki11 is the scummiest person in the game right now. Others have shied away from calling his underwhelming wall post scummy, but it's reaally scummy. Announce a wall post and then spend the majority of it on setup spec is pretty meh to begin with. Saying that he's doing it for himself like he's doing his make-up (nothing wrong with that) and then doing it is even worse. And his reasoning for how it was a reminder felt fabricated. That post and his response to me in 172 and 218 are the entirety of the content from this slot. Slaxx agrees this slot is scummy.

PP - Slaxx thinks PP's iso is terrible. I don't see anything that looks like game solving or is in another way town-indicative. And I don't like the evasiveness around my questions.

DT - We're here by POE, lol

Spoiler: Null Reads

Null:
Dannflor: I pushed in our pt, and slaxx is coming around to Dannflor's more recent posts being townie. Slaxx thinks he is overexplaining, but that paper in GD suggests that long sentence structure is town-indicative, and man has some long sentences. Especially if one were to connect sentences that start with "but" to the prior sentence that it really should be a part of. E.g, 176. I feel like an asshole even bringing up this read... but stats. And yes, I know, 176 is a TWTBAW argument, but I think he's like halfway down the path to my read, which is that a lot of molla's play is personality-indicative. We're clearly conflicted about this slot rn.

p.edit guess i don't need to do the vote ;P

[Draco Lucky]

-U2

[Draco Lucky]

Also, there's one really bad vote over the past page or two that indicates a possible buddy. But we will let that stew for a bit.

This is an incredibly dumb statement.

For someone whose gotten easily offended with my banter in the past you’re being kind of a jerk. Want to elaborate on this at all?

-Slaxx

[Draco Lucky]

Also, there's one really bad vote over the past page or two that indicates a possible buddy. But we will let that stew for a bit.

This is an incredibly dumb statement.

For someone whose gotten easily offended with my banter in the past you’re being kind of a jerk. Want to elaborate on this at all?

-Slaxx

Have I played with you before?

It’s dumb because Overkill was at no risk of a lynch and it would make no sense for me as a scum buddy to vote the next highest wagon in an effort to swing it which is what you’re implying with your comment.

Overkill was and is at a risk of a lynch and that would literally be text book scum play. Especially under the aloof guise of “I vote a lot of people for wagons”.

[Draco Lucky]

He was at three votes which was the most at the time. Your vote on Dann tied them again.

-Slaxx

[Draco Lucky]

More likely town by the wagon.
Plus DT didn't even post.

I'll bet you he flips scum

stakes: loser posts one new thread in GD with title and content of winner's choice. nothing bannable

[Draco Lucky]

-U2

[Draco Lucky]

I'll bet you he flips scum

stakes: loser posts one new thread in GD with title and content of winner's choice. nothing bannable

Okay!
If we're allowed to do this friendly wager of course.

If it's against the rules I'm sure one of these colored names will tell us.

Bet on!

[Draco Lucky]

-U2 grumble never remember this

[Draco Lucky]

not sure how this brings an outside influence into the game since it's within the game and the flip is guaranteed to occur but whatevs

Bet OFF!

-U2

[Draco Lucky]

Over the night Slaxx and I came up with this poe

Micc
Vedith
BBmolla
PP
RC

Micc is our first choice for today

VOTE: Micc

-U2

srry i fogot

[Draco Lucky]

godfather is a term that was used by his friends one of affection one of respect

Who are you talking about

-U2

[Draco Lucky]

End of the day post may not be AI on its own but I still think it's pretty bad considering context. You stayed on your vanity wagon despite saying multiple other wagons were "fine" or "good," and then proceeded to note vote them. I know the wagon went fast, but why did you stay on BBmolla?

The molla wagon is the one I wanted to push the whole time and is still what I keep coming back to. That said vanity wagons are pretty useless in the middle of day 1 as is tunneling. I'm not sure how you're equating me being willing to lock down other reads to being scum.

We agree that your play later part of D1 looks a lot like it could be you trying to shift the wagon away from OK and just not getting traction.

-U2

[Draco Lucky]

Micc
Vedith
BBmolla
PP
RC

Would you like to talk about any of these or just like nah?

You think we're scum. Who is our partner? Who are you confident is town?

-U2

[Draco Lucky]

i doubt it's both of them right now

honestly i think it's draco and micc and they're crossvoting but im less sure on micc

Who were you talking about in that post? Who is a godfather?
Why are you scum reading us?

-U2

[Draco Lucky]

Although Draco, reading this back, how did you guys progress from Micc as a pretty strong town so who you want to push today? Why not PP since he was your guys' second scum read?

we worked pretty hard on a VCA over the night phase and used it to augment our reads. I'll put together something on our Micc progression.
-U2

[Draco Lucky]

Would you like to talk about any of these or just like nah?

You think we're scum. Who is our partner? Who are you confident is town?

-U2

Sure.
For a start, why is RC Scum? Keeping in mind you obviously spoke about it during the night. You came to the conclusion that a spot that hasn't posted isn't town.

I'm confident that Molla is town.

We have RC in our PoE, and frankly it would be absurd to not have the 0 post count slot in a poe. We've had him as possible scum by poe since like my first reads list. Not sure why there is confusion here. Are you town reading RC?

-U2

[Draco Lucky]

We have RC in our PoE, and frankly it would be absurd to not have the 0 post count slot in a poe. We've had him as possible scum by poe since like my first reads list. Not sure why there is confusion here. Are you town reading RC?

It's more of a laughing matter.
So explain to me on all of the town reads. Since you have spent time discussing this.
Did you both agree with each others reads?

Well I don't dislike what RC is saying. Plus, Scum will have to deal with him sooner than later as town so I'm not worried.

How is it a laughing matter?

Micc - There are a few instances where Micc's posting around Ok's wagon looks sus af. He complains about BBmolla wagon not being a thing, asks for someone to convince him to join the dann wagon right after dann made a super townie post. He also fed OK a softball question about mechanics. There's not much good to offset the bad, either. In 239 he ignored our OK push and instead focused on PP.

PP - Which is actually why we think PP is only likely to be scum if Micc flips town. Outside of that, PP's iso is still not town-indicative, and his position on the wagon and vote hop prior to gettin on OK could def be a bus.

BBmolla - We don't see any reason why BBmolla's naked vote on OK couldn't have been a bus. We actually think it would be pretty lulzy, and not at all impossible for two scum to have bussed OK. If this was the case, and because we don't see PP + Micc as a thing, and because we don't think Xwing or Dann were busses, those two scum would be BBmolla + Micc.

Vedith - vedith's play from xwing's vote up to 220, ignoring the wall and then defending overkill are slightly scum indicative. 241 and 241 are a really weird interaction for scum!OK to have with Scum!Vedith. It's not impossible though. Also off the wagon, and it was pretty obv!scum. Lowest priority target

RC was an empty slot. I haven't analyzed his D2 yet.

[Draco Lucky]

-U2

[Draco Lucky]

I said town reads.
Why are xwing Dann wormface and who ever else town?

ah my b

Xwing - First of all slaxx town reads Xwing on play, and I lean town here, too. Also, we really don't see that first slot on the OK wagon being a bus.
Dann - Townier as the day went on. We read him as town, and we think that he is unlikely to make the vote on his partner at that time. Slight exception if his play d1 was to just follow xwing around, and he got on OK as a result of that play, but this is paranoid.

Dr. Worm feels town. His thought processes, where they are evident are townie. Getting reactions from Vedith and PP around the hammer felt town.

-U2

[Draco Lucky]

and it was pretty obv!scum.

Why was it pretty obvious?
At what point in day1 before the lynch do you state or imply it's obvious Scum?

in my first read list I emphasize - repeatedly - how scummy I thought OK was. I was in no way ambiguous. Dann just quoted it for you this evening. Like, hello?

-U2

[Draco Lucky]

PP - Which is actually why we think PP is only likely to be scum if Micc flips town. Outside of that, PP's iso is still not town-indicative, and his position on the wagon and vote hop prior to gettin on OK could def be a bus.

Do you know the definition of a bus? If I wanted to bus Overkill I would have pushed him in a way that actually made it look like I was not partners with him. If I was partners with Overkill I wouldn't have stayed on the wagon while Mr. Worm (you haven't earned the Dr. yet) was intimating hammering.

I was ambivalent (as a said, his ISO somewhat matched up a previous scum game, but wasn't enough) when Mr. Worm hammered. You can read those interaction again if you want.

Slaxx can't read me for shit, FYI.

I'm using bus to mean "voting on a partner's lynch" or "actively working for a partner's lynch"

Feel free to correct me, but that's how I'm using the term up until now. I have no reason to take it as certainty that you would have pulled off of OK as scum. I do want to flip Micc first, though, which we think would pretty much clear you if red.

-U2

[Draco Lucky]

Xwing - First of all slaxx town reads Xwing on play, and I lean town here, too. Also, we really don't see that first slot on the OK wagon being a bus.
Dann - Townier as the day went on. We read him as town, and we think that he is unlikely to make the vote on his partner at that time. Slight exception if his play d1 was to just follow xwing around, and he got on OK as a result of that play, but this is paranoid.

Dr. Worm feels town. His thought processes, where they are evident are townie. Getting reactions from Vedith and PP around the hammer felt town.

Lol wut?

So you both had the same reads?
Or did you disagree on any? Were the reasons the same?

We had a fairly long discussion, and I am expressing the consensus opinion that resulted.

[Draco Lucky]

-U2

[Draco Lucky]

Until I hear otherwise from Slaxx, we are in lockstep read-wise.
-U2

[Draco Lucky]

Feel free to correct me,

I already did.

Simply voting your buddy when lynched is not bussing. Especially when Overkill's lynch was somewhat unexpected.

Bussing implies intent to distance.

Great. I'll keep that in mind in the future (though I think voting one's scum partner always implies some intent to distance). Now that you know how I was using the word, you should be able to understand my posts =)
-U2

[Draco Lucky]

in my first read list I emphasize - repeatedly - how scummy I thought OK was. I was in no way ambiguous. Dann just quoted it for you this evening. Like, hello?

No you didn't.
At no point are you showing 100% confidence that Overkill is Scum until after the hammer.

Lol even after the hammer i wasn't 100% confident. Who is ever 100% confident? He was obv!scum, though, and I was very confident from my first read list.

We had a fairly long discussion, and I am expressing the consensus opinion that resulted.

So you didn't agree on reads originally?

We had some disagreements but we worked them out in couple's counseling. I'm not going to go through our entire discussion. You have our reads.

-U2

[Draco Lucky]

draco as town would care a lot more about me coming in saying they were my most confident scumread

This is terribly inaccurate. And if you want to meta me, you should actually try it. I'm not big on self-defense.

I do really want to know who you were calling a godfather, though.

-U2

[Draco Lucky]

though I think voting one's scum partner always implies some intent to distance

Not necessarily incorrect, but we were some 3 days into the game and I doubt scum thought that was a serious wagon for a lynch.

I'm not even sure what you're referring to anymore?
-U2

[Draco Lucky]

Lol even after the hammer i wasn't 100% confident. Who is ever 100% confident? He was obv!scum, though, and I was very confident from my first read list.

But you were 100% confident after the hammer.

Was I though? Back this the fuck up, bro

-U2

[Draco Lucky]

though I think voting one's scum partner always implies some intent to distance

Not necessarily incorrect, but we were some 3 days into the game and I doubt scum thought

that

was a serious wagon for a lynch.

I'm not even sure what you're referring to anymore?
-U2

I was referring to the statement that I quoted. Replace the bolded "that" with Overkill if you are confused.

In that case I'm pretty bored with your self-meta wifom. Did you have a question?
-U2

[Draco Lucky]

We had some disagreements but we worked them out in couple's counseling. I'm not going to go through our entire discussion. You have our reads.

Okay I don't want all, but did you disagree with any of the town reads?

I took a little more convincing on Xwing since Slaxx was already there on that read, but I did most of the work to get there on my own.
I'll have to go back and dig through our PT to give you an accurate answer on this. I'm not doing it right now.
-U2

[Draco Lucky]

I'll bet you he flips scum

This is confidence right here.

100% do i see 100% or "certain" or any other word that would convey anything but a strong confidence? I don't think so. What is this nonsense line of questioning?
-U2

[Draco Lucky]

@PP You're basically trying to make the argument that you couldn't have been bussing OK because no scum would have thought OK was in danger

and I'm simply not interested in having this conversation with you in particular.

-U2

P.S. Ya'll snarky af, lol It's cute

[Draco Lucky]

Does the panel have any more questions at this time?

-U2

[Draco Lucky]

Okay, welp

I'll leave ya'll with a reminder to RC that I would like him to answer the one question I've asked him repeatedly since I got here. Thanks in advance!

-U2

[Draco Lucky]

what is the question

who were you describing as a "godfather"

-U2

[Draco Lucky]

Such a simple question to repeatedly refuse to answer

-U2

[Draco Lucky]

and it was pretty obv!scum.

Why was it pretty obvious?
At what point in day1 before the lynch do you state or imply it's obvious Scum?

in my first read list I emphasize - repeatedly - how scummy I thought OK was. I was in no way ambiguous. Dann just quoted it for you this evening. Like, hello?

No you didn't.
At no point are you showing 100% confidence that Overkill is Scum until after the hammer.

In retrospect, I really don't like how Vedith went from asking me where i implied OK was obv!scum to "showing 100% confidence." In the moment I wasn't sure where the 100% thing came from, but in retrospect, he pulled it out of his ass.

-U2

[Draco Lucky]

We have 70 content rich posts

and you're reading us by

tone

?

what a joke, lol

-U2

[Draco Lucky]

Come at our play, coward.

We're town, and if you're town you need to step the fuck up

because this is some newb level shit

-U2

[Draco Lucky]

Don't worry, if town shits its pants and lynches us, we'll venge a scum for you

but you guys will have to slip, trip, and fall your way into the final lynch.

I suggest sheeping our poe

-U2

[Draco Lucky]

Here, let me identify our current tone, RC, so you can better read us

It's derisive.

-U2

[Draco Lucky]

For those of you who want a detailed look into the conversation between slaxx and I

Here it is:

Spoiler:

Thanks for talking me out of my confbias.

That wagon happened very easily, I’m thinking one bus at least?

---
i'll do some vc analysis before the day starts

---
Votecount 1.Final

Target Wagon
0verki11 (6) xwing (207), Dannflor (214), Draco Lucky (236), PenguinPower (248), BBMolla (258), Dr Worm (281)
Micc (1) Creature (143)
Dannflor (1) Vedith (211)
BBMolla (1) Micc (134)
Not Voting (2) 0verki11, DoubtingThomas

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. 0verki11 has been lynched.

---
okay so let's take a look at this from start to finish

Xwing votes an empty wagon. Almost certainly not a bus

Dann votes 7 posts later. He's been following xwing around all game so it's possible it's an incidental bus as a result of a strategy. outside of this i don't think it is often a bus. low probability shot

we vote in 236, wagon is gaining steam

Penguin votes in 248. Here, scum!penguin had a choice to make. Do i bus or do i not bus? and he jumped around before deciding fuck it i gotta bus - possible bus. He's less likely to bus if dannflor is scum as well because damn that would be a hard bus being 2/4 slots on wagon

BBMolla basically same exact analysis as penguinpower except he's a little more likely to be scum if penguin isn't scum and a lot more likely if both penguin and dannflor aren't scum

I hate analyzing hammer votes because you can basically make a case for it and against it regardless of how many other scum are on the wagon so like sure, could be a bus with any or no other teammates

---
Dr Worm was fishing for reactions he really looked Townie there.

I think Pp/Bb are the best pushed tomorrow although still don’t think BB alone is a good push. Would a scum wagon fall apart for another scum wagon? I’ve seen it happen...

---
im working on off the wagon vc right now

---
TBH, vedith's play from xwing's vote up to 220, ignoring the wall and then defending overkill are slightly scum indicative. I don't remember why I was strong town reading vedith but i know i was.

I think it was over his xwing/dann scum reads

which tbh i now like a lot less since xwing is almost conf!town and dan is not far behind given how wagon starts. I really don't think he's scum

---
and at first i thought vedith being a main target of OK's wall was town-indicative but it's so soft im not sure

---
Post Post #222 (ISO) » Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:47 pm

Don't get me wrong. I don't think a vote on Overkill is bad.
And i would lynch the slot over keeping with what I have.

I really didn't like Danns response to me though and I feel he was intentially mis reading what I was saying.

for instance, this is really bad

---
that's vedith. i hate that i can't quote shit

---
bbmolla had a choice of three(!) wagons with 2 votes on them

They were
Micc
Dannflor
0verki11

so assuming dannflor is town, he had at least 1 non-bus choice that he could have propelled forward.

I think it's entirely possible that he sees OK as so scummy that he can't afford not to bus, but he could def be town

---
I remember that post.

So

(Xwing, Dann)
(Micc, Creature, Dr. Worm)
(BB, DT)
(PP, Vedith)

is where I am at.

---
I forgot about that post. I agree it is super bad. Are there any disqualifying PP/Vedith interactions that make them non partnery?

---
i dunno probably not lemme keep reading the day

---
micc in 234 and 235 is not a good look for him.

he's annoyed the bbmolla wagon fell apart and asking to be sold on dann

and dann had just made a townie post

---
239
we've already given our reads and made a vote
micc feeds OK a softball question about mechanics(??) and pushes PP as a possible lynch

---
Votecount 1.9

Target Wagon
BBMolla (2) BBMolla (119), Micc (134)
Micc (2) PenguinPower (10), Creature (143)
Dannflor (2) Draco Lucky (82), Vedith (211)
0verki11 (2) xwing (207), Dannflor (214)
xwing (1) Dr Worm (109)
Not Voting (2) 0verki11, DoubtingThomas

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. The Day 1 deadline is in 5 days, 1 hour, 1 minute.

What an interesting votecount.

---
How likely do you think it scum didn't vote on the same person on any of those?

---
241 and 241 are a really weird interaction for scum!OK to have with Scum!Vedith

I'm not saying it's impossible but it's... bad.

And like that's fine because OK initiated it and OK definitely didn't have a great game

and I guess vedith just shrugs it off. maybe this doesn't mean anything at all actually

---
they 75% didn't vote together considering we KNOW at most 2 scum were voting

---
Yeah #239 is probably super telling

He completely ignores our OK push and latches onto PP

---
actually since dannflor and xwing are probably town and creature is probably town

it's only scum together if it's BBmolla and Micc voting for bbmolla

which would be lulzy as fuck and I wouldn't put it past them necessarily

---
If its Micc/OK then PP is town

---
246-248

---
If its Micc/OK then PP is town

agree with you here for sure

---
I mean I guess not necessarily, maybe he decided that getting rid of OK might be a easier pill to swallow...but i dont think scum does that

---
246-248

you think these in particular clear pp vs micc?

i agree it's probably not the two of them but more for micc's push off OK

I mean, for him to try and push the wagon from OK to PP as scum with both, his plan would have had to have been to only temporarily go to pp and then move the wagon somewhere else later

---
I could probably put together an associatives grid. If we decide Xwing, Dannfloor, and maybe one more person...Creature?...is town, thats not that many combinations

---
i don't see any reason bbmolla's naked L-1 couldn't be a bus

---
Agree

---
I actually don't really buy that Worm was fishing for reactions

only 26 minutes from start to finish

and whose reactions do we think he was looking for in that time?

---
I feel like a D1 Scumlynch breaks the game open. I mean it will be 7:2 tomorrow. That is 2 mislynches and thus two investigations. Potentially four people gone.

---
he got one reaction from someone on the wagon that could have unvoted, PP

so that's fair enough I guess. Maybe I do buy it

---
#283, on PP

---
I feel like a D1 Scumlynch breaks the game open. I mean it will be 7:2 tomorrow. That is 2 mislynches and thus two investigations. Potentially four people gone.

i agree. there is an incentive not to bus. and if you are going to bus, you better be townie enough not to get an invest

---
#284 on Vedith as well

---
#284 on Vedith as well

yeah i guess, but vedith wasn't on wagon and couldn't get cold feet

---
Now my pool is more (Micc, Vedith, BB) with wildcards of Radiant Cowbells and Penguin Power.

---
I think I'm coming down to from scummiest to least scummy

Micc
Vedith
RC

with PP jumping ahead of vedith if micc is town

---
yeah throw bb in there somewhere too i guess. not srue where but you're right he's in the poe

---
Ironically 5 people in the PoE is autowin

---
3 Lynches 2 Investigations

---
i could buy teams of
{Micc, Vedith}
{Micc, RC}
{Micc, BB}
{Vedith, PP}
{Vedith,RC}
{PP,RC}

---
mind you, im 100% sheeping you on creature.
I don't understand how to read him

---
If he posts anything game related he is probably town

if he actually engages people and looks like he is scumhunting he probably is

---
hey, that's my meta too

---
There's probably a good chance we die tonight. I feel like Xwing would be the kill, but I have a rep around here that gets me killed.

---
There's probably a good chance we die tonight. I feel like Xwing would be the kill, but I have a rep around here that gets me killed.

if we do, this can be for posterity. I think we live if micc is scum since i called him town
and def if it is bbmolla + micc

die a lot more often in PP worlds

---
but you're right, we're a really solid night kill rn i think for a bunch of teams

---
I wasn't as aggressive this game which helps.

Agreed. Dead us =PP/??

Alive us = Micc/??

---
I guess we didn't really push the d1 lynch but we read it right and we were on it, so DOESN'T MATTER HAD SEX

---
I wasn't as aggressive this game which helps.

Agreed. Dead us =PP/??

Alive us = Micc/??

alive us def implicates micc somewhat
dead us who cares =P

---
great now I am going to be down the Lonely Island Youtube rabbit hole for like three hours

-U2

[Draco Lucky]

The only post count is from one of your posts in this game thread. I confirmed rules with NSG prior to posting. Just trying to give you what you asked for mate, but I'm not going to defend it's validity.

-U2

[Draco Lucky]

Vedith - vedith's play from xwing's vote up to 220, ignoring the wall and then defending overkill are slightly scum indicative. 241 and 241 are a really weird interaction for scum!OK to have with Scum!Vedith. It's not impossible though. Also off the wagon, and it was pretty obv!scum.

Lowest priority target

This doesn't make sense to the reads you posted. Why am I lowest priority when you think PP is only Scum If Micc is town?

PP and micc spew the other town if they flip scum
The case against you is weakest

I'm not seeing a disconnect
-U2

[Draco Lucky]

Micc
Vedith
RC

with PP jumping ahead of vedith if micc is town

I see where you're coming from, and from a purely read perspective I am kind of in agreement

but from an actual strategy perspective, If I can't get a Micc lynch today, it makes sense for me to go for PP

srry srry
-U2

[Draco Lucky]

I'm not really sure who town!micc cops, tbh. Haven't heard much from him since we began pushing him.

I think town!you and town!PP probably check me more often than not. town!micc probably less often, but maybe not after today.

If we wanted to avoid being checked we probably try to avoid all 3.

Gun to my head, you're most likely to check us but there isn't really a substantial reason for why you do it more than PP

-U2

[Draco Lucky]

Spoiler: case on worm

VADETH and PONGWIN!! do you THINK OVERKILLED is TONWN or MAFIA??

regarding worm first off this is completely out of nowhere when he's already on the wagon and this is a high wolf equity post but most importantly

if OVERKILL IS BADMAN VEDATH looks like BADMAN TOO

VOTE: OVERKILL

dr worm is tying people to overkills flip... before overkill has flipped... before he has voted overkill or expressed a read on him

literally no mention of overkill in his iso then he's tying people to the flip and voting him then after voting him asking people what they think the flip is ???

so uh the sheer number of people townreading mr worm confuses me

Your case on Dr. Worm isn't bad. Can you explain town!Micc to me?

-U2

[Draco Lucky]

it's less that i specifically see him as town and more that the reasons for scumreading him are weak

even better!

Why is our thinking on micc bad?

-U2

[Draco Lucky]

I'm annoyed that this bbmolla wagon has fallen apart.

Can someone sell me on the Dannflor wagon? I think I like it but am having a hard time putting words to why.

Firstly, I dont know if this has been addressed, but under no circumstances do we give someone a target to check if they flip town, mafia will just kill them if they are town.

How strongly do you feel about this and why?

Also, draco posts incentivized me to look back on penguin's iso. I agree its not great. I was giving him the benefit of the doubt for what seemed like a reasonable bit of pressure on me. Then again I was never really convinced the vote was serious so what kind of pressure is that really?

heh. this wagon was fine but rushing to the lynch is stupid. I'm hoping for the best but I don't like the chances.

Strongest part of the argument is these posts. I suggest reading a couple pages to get full context

-U2

[Draco Lucky]

Overkill is at 3 votes when the first two posts come

The first one is a nudge for people to reevaluate BBmolla rather than go to OK
The second is begging for someone to give him a reason he can use to join the counter wagon.
The third, after we put OK to L-2, is a softball to OK, and another stab at *any* other wagon
And the last one is something I've seen from scum - like Pintu and there's another somewhere in my past games - where scum are low key salty that the wagon on their partner went quick, depriving them of the opportunity to shift it off scum. They just can't quite repress that emotion

-U2

[Draco Lucky]

I could see Micc+Worm, actually I think

-U2

[Draco Lucky]

Ehh, not really actually

-U2

[Draco Lucky]

i think it's like worm/pp if you're town

A reasonable conclusion, I guess..

I'd like to know what's wrong with my thinking, tho

-U2

[Draco Lucky]

@Dann In response to your question

Spoiler: Every post by micc today

What makes you think scum was voting him early on? It feels like there was bussing to me, but later in the wagon.

The lack of an real attempt at a counterwagon being what makes me think there is scum on the back half of the overkill wagon.

End of the day post may not be AI on its own but I still think it's pretty bad considering context. You stayed on your vanity wagon despite saying multiple other wagons were "fine" or "good," and then proceeded to note vote them. I know the wagon went fast, but why did you stay on BBmolla?

The molla wagon is the one I wanted to push the whole time and is still what I keep coming back to. That said vanity wagons are pretty useless in the middle of day 1 as is tunneling. I'm not sure how you're equating me being willing to lock down other reads to being scum.

I don't have traction on anything tbh.

Heck, I liked the idea of an overkill wagon but wasn't dead set on it. And even if I voted I would have been off it the second Dr Worm indicated they were thinking about hammering. Like what good is a pressure wagon if you hammer the person before they even respond to it? I think that lynch was lucky and that scum are on the wagon.

That said I took the night phase off from thinking about this game and I'm at work now so I haven't sat down and taken a good uninterrupted look at the people on the wagon. Id put a vote down if I felt good about where I'm at but right now I don't

predits: back to work without reading them sorry.

IS PONGYPOWER BAD in MICC"S BRAIN??

Yeah. the bbmolla, PP, dr worm part of the wagon is what I'm interested to dig in to. You less so because I think that hammer coming from scum is unlikely but I'm not confident enough to rule it out.

penguin pulling from wifom over this subject not really making me feel better about him either.

I don't want to force a read where I don't really have one, and not every post from scum is scummy. My strongest feelings on these posts are:

I don't like how micc is calling it a pressure wagon. This echoes PP saying that no one should have expected it to go through when OK had 3 votes on him. Maybe I'm in a different game, but that's not how OK's wagon felt to me, and I kind of feel like this is trying to rewrite the narrative. It also doesn't jive with his feeling that there is a bus at the back end of the wagon. If it was just a pressure wagon and could be expected to dissipate, why do scum help give it a jump?

His comment about a lack of counter wagon feels townie unless he's bemoaning his failure to move the wagon on his buddy and his failure to put a vote down feels kind of townie in this context, I think.

[Draco Lucky]

-U2

[Draco Lucky]

@draco if you're town why is slaxx slanking so hard

You’re seriously doing activity tells?

I’ve had a sitewide drop in activity this weekend because I had friends in town.

Other than that U2 just has a better handle on the game than I do. Conversations begat conversations, we talked over the night about reads and I don’t have anything new to add. I manhandled my last hydra to the point no one else hardly posted and I felt bad so I’m still trying to strike a balance.

If you have questions for me ask.

-S

[Draco Lucky]

Hi. I plan to be here tonight but I have some other stuff to do first. sorry

waiting for micc and others to do stuff before i go any further

It's like we're playing show and tell!! Okay, I have something, too. I'll go third. =)

-U2

[Draco Lucky]

what if none of those 3 are scum

Are you reading the same game I am?

[Draco Lucky]

I'm asking a question. I felt that it was worth asking.

Yeah, contrasting it with “if you’re town” wasn’t loaded at all.

-S

[Draco Lucky]

so just to clarify

you both think that we are scum with Micc?

-U2

[Draco Lucky]

Over the night Slaxx and I came up with this poe

Micc
Vedith
BBmolla
PP
RC

This is a terrible, horrible, no good, very bad poe list.

We're going to revisit this and your current reads list in post game if you flip town

-U2

[Draco Lucky]

Would you like to ask me about it while I can respond? No?

That's alright.

We've contributed plenty today, and are waiting for Micc and RC to talk before going further.

I'm sure you'll be another time, and we can converse then =)

-U2

[Draco Lucky]

@draco-u2: what do you think are your major contributions in this game for this particular day, and why?

I would probably describe our contributions as

-A full VCA and reads on the game with explanations

-Answering a slew of questions about our analysis from RC, PP, and Vedith

-A PoE from our analysis that we think wins the game.

I think you should give our iso for today a read if any of this seems unfamiliar

-U2

[Draco Lucky]

Oh why do we think those are our major contributions?

I don't really know how to answer this. Let's go with..

Because these are the things we have done today.

[Draco Lucky]

Are we being shaded for answering questions? Okiee

Answering Xwing does not interfere with what we are doing.

-U2

[Draco Lucky]

Yeah, we're waiting before contributing new thoughts because we don't want them to color Micc and RC's upcoming stuff

but if you have questions for us about something I would be happy to answer

-U2

[Draco Lucky]

Selectively answering.

Cool.

I'm not sure how you can read what we're saying and come away with this conclusion.

[Draco Lucky]

-U2

[Draco Lucky]

We are choosing which questions we want to ASK (none atm) and which comments we want to give unsolicited (none atm) and answering anything thrown at us.

I've been answering everything thrown at us all game. I'm continuing to do so. I don't think you're reading. If you are, you certainly aren't comprehending.

Again, you're welcome to ask us anything you would like.

-U2

[Draco Lucky]

@draco:
i want you to be town, coz i like slaxx..
pedit: what topic in particular do you want micc/RC to address that you dont want to get colored?

Both Micc and RC have promised contributions today. Both are in our PoE. We are waiting to see what they've got with open minds, and these are what we don't want to color.

-U2

[Draco Lucky]

Why do you want to wait until after I flip to reassess my reads there? Why did you not want to ask me when I made that post? Why did you feel like being a pedant?

I want to revisit both of our reads in post game if you are town because I think you have a terrible attitude and I'm going to throw your comments about our reads and play being bad in your face after the game.

I don't want to ask you about the post because I'm waiting for RC and Micc. The third isn't a real question.

-U2

[Draco Lucky]

Sure,
take it that way if you'd like.

Either way, it's a topic better saved for post game, which is where I wanted to bring it up in the first place.

-U2

[Draco Lucky]

i'm just giving it a few days to solidify my reads that everyone who isn't scum is in fact town

When you do share, I hope you will include answers to our outstanding questions regardless of your read on us.

-U2

[Draco Lucky]

Can someone sell me on the Dannflor wagon? I think I like it but am having a hard time putting words to why.

Nah.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: OverKill

I took a day off and reread the thread. I was confbiasing on Dann and U2 talked me out of it. There is a lot of LAMIST coming from OK with basically no reasoning for any of the few stances they have taken.

Also, there's one really bad vote over the past page or two that indicates a possible buddy. But we will let that stew for a bit.

-Slaxx

This interaction alone makes Micc the better lynch than us and to not see it is just dumb.

If we were scum here we take the out and double on Dannflor to avoid OK, or, you know, ask for the out onto another wagon like Micc did.

Micc completely softballed OK up until lynch. This isn't rocket science.

Sorry if I spooked you with the marathon game RC, but I don't buss if I don't need to. It was imperative there, I don't do it D1 here. We were doing fine stance-wise within the town and had people open to non-OK wagons.

We did this because were were trying to lynch scum.

End of fucking story.

-Slaxx

[Draco Lucky]

We're being scum read by at least two players, and probably four. Micc is being scumread by at least five players, and possibly a sixth.

I think our slot and Micc's slot should be the two wagons for today.

If there are any objections, I would like to hear them and the reasons behind them.

-U2

[Draco Lucky]

maybe because all reads are not created equal

Good. That's one slot who doesn't think their wincon is furthered by Micc vs. Draco wagons. Something to ponder.

Anyone else?

-U2

[Draco Lucky]

I forgot how good this song was, lol. Thanks RC

Spoiler: hey mickey!

-U2

[Draco Lucky]

I think that micc is town because I'm fairly sure I know who the two scum are
I have fairly ironclad reasons to townread pretty much everyone else in the playerlist
but I just want to give Micc a chance to prove me wrong or right before I go all in

do you think Micc never, as town, goes this long without doing anything useful?

Lmfao

You’re not this bad.

-Slaxx

[Draco Lucky]

Do you think he never, as town, fails to do anything in that 16 hours?

He could be busy with life regardless of alignment.

You’re.
Not.
This.
Bad.

[Draco Lucky]

Do you think he never, as town, fails to do anything in that 16 hours?

I read this as you saying it’s a towntell he isn’t being productive.

Is that the wrong interpretation?

[Draco Lucky]

I think you having a townread on Micc after OK associatives is outside your town meta.

That’s the clifnotes version.

-Slaxx

[Draco Lucky]

particularly in the context of trying to burden of proficiency me for not agreeing with your reads because you think that i'm so good without you considering that you could be wrong.

Just hopping in for a second here to remind you that I would still like you to explain why our thinking on Micc is wrong!

Okay, carry on.

-U2

[Draco Lucky]

i don't think micc in this game crossed the border of being slot that is required to be policy lynched for performing an action so egregious and i certainly don't think he's a necessary today lynch given that he never goes to endgame.

It isn’t a policy lynch, and you framing it that way is solidifying the way I approach this.

This is a lynch based on scumhunting and associatives with flipped red and you fucking know that.

[Draco Lucky]

Has anyone ever done any work to look into whether town misses self-imposed deadlines more often than scum? or the other way around? If someone knows of a MD thread or something, that would be sweet.

-U2

[Draco Lucky]

I'm more interested in site-wide stats. Unless someone has a lot of scum games, individual meta for a question like this is akin to saying "All indians walk in a straight line - at least the one I saw did!" There simply isn't enough data for statistically significant conclusions on questions unrelated to tone, word choice, etc. This is my opinion, anyway, and I'm not really looking to debate it here. I'm just giving you my thought process since you preemptively shaded me. =/

If an examination of a thousand games showed that this came from scum at, say, a 60% clip, that could be used as a lightly weighted data point.

I asked because I couldn't find anything through the search, and figured some of you guys that had been here a while might have remembered seeing something.

Thank you for taking the time to answer, regardless!
-U2

[Draco Lucky]

I mean, if you've got a compelling case for other slots, let's do it.

I'm hard pressed to reevaluate micc without that input, though.
-U2

[Draco Lucky]

ime regarding myself i miss self imposed deadlines a lot as town but not as scum.

I suspect the correct play here is to post my theory about who the scum are, which isn't micc, and then lynch Micc anyway.

If he's villa he can vengecop one of them and if not well I guess I Was wrong.

Hell yes. Now this actually makes sense.

It’s WIFOM to say this but I think the best move is to target us with the investigation if Micc flips town.

-Slaxx

[Draco Lucky]

Why? We are a super polarizing figure and it will get worse if Micc does flip town.

PP/Vedith/You(?) suspect us and

Xwing/Worm/Dann don’t. We are already today’s counterwagon so Micc flipping town probably means it’s us tomorrow. Why not streamline that and either get us killed or get our flip?

[Draco Lucky]

I fourth just casing out your suspects, even though I’m part of the head.

I don’t want to wait until Thur or Friday because I’ll be out of town and then not have time to pore over it.

[Draco Lucky]

Part of the hydra*

I am the full head

[Draco Lucky]

Vedith case rings true af for me

-U2

[Draco Lucky]

I'm on the edge of my seat waiting for the rest of your dann case.

This post isn't meant to prod you, as you've delivered above my expectations so far, RC, and I'm appreciative of your efforts.

but it is to let you know that unless you tell me it's going to be a while, I'm going to continue refreshing every couple minutes.

-U2

[Draco Lucky]

What is it I'm expected to make a case over? The "if i'm town" bit or Micc's replacement? I don't think I'm going to bring up either.

UNVOTE:

-U2

[Draco Lucky]

as you've delivered above my expectations so far

This is lynched tomorrow though if I'm town.

Smart thinking.

Really bro

[Draco Lucky]

as you've delivered above my expectations so far

This is lynched tomorrow though if I'm town.

Smart thinking.

Really bro

^ slaxx post in case anyone is trying to read us separately

Dann's interactions with OK and Vedith aren't entirely conclusive. I'm not blind to why it could be SvS(vS), but I'm not convinced.

I'm having trouble ruling out {Micc, Vedith}

and if Vedith flips town, I don't think I can rule out {PP, RC} or {RC, Micc}

{BBmolla, Micc} is not feeling as possible as it was at day start.

-U2

[Draco Lucky]

RC micc is a literally never

I can't identify why it should be ruled out completely.

-U2

[Draco Lucky]

Do you want me to tell you how I would go about winning as a {RC, micc} scum team?

-U2

[Draco Lucky]

no because whatever you would do is probably worse than whatever i would do

If that's the case, then I REALLY can't rule it out ;P

-U2

[Draco Lucky]

Also, I'm sure it is the case. not trying to be a braggart in this particular instance.

-U2

[Draco Lucky]

-Make great case against one slot
-Don't actually make case on second slot

-vote second slot?


Do you see dann as part of more potential teams than vedith? or does his flip confirm vedith, my or micc's alignment for you?

-U2

[Draco Lucky]

oh you're just walking back your entire vedith read, got it

-U2

[Draco Lucky]

I don't understand the question

-U2

[Draco Lucky]

I don't think you really believe that read on me. But I also think that dann is the worst option today. If dann is town, I'm left with the same poe I started the day with, minus his venge, but a day later.


Micc, Vedith are my preferences atm.

-U2

[Draco Lucky]

I don't really do self defense

and I think this is the second time this game you've scum read me for reactions if your town or to posture if you're scum, and I'm not going to get into a fight with you over it.

There are better slots than yours to flip right now, by a mile, and regardless of either of our alignments, I'm not favored in a 1v1. So what, exactly, do you think I should be doing about it?

-U2

[Draco Lucky]

Why can't I scumread you because I think that you're scummy as fuck as town, why's it gotta be a reaction test?

Because I'm writing with the same voice that I've been using conversationally for my entire adult life and I've got plenty of town games to compare it to, so I'm pretty sure you're not actually scum reading me for differences between my tone this game and my tone in completed town games.

-U2

[Draco Lucky]

VOTE: vedith

We're good with this.

L-1

-U2

[Draco Lucky]

I'll come up and say Mr Worm, PP and xwing are town

btw i suspect creature was killed because this is right

{RC, PP, xwing, worm}
molla ????
{Micc, Draco}
{Vedith, Dannflor} btw

this seems relevant. Added note: RC later said that he had micc too low on the list

-U2

[Draco Lucky]

Tbh I don't understand how after all that happened day 2 Dr.worm is still not dead

V

welcome junko! Thanks for replacing

Could you explain this?

-U2

[Draco Lucky]

@junko

Also, would you mind giving a read on each slot when you have time? Appreciate ya

-U2

[Draco Lucky]

@Dr Worm

Who do you think Junko's partner might be?

[Draco Lucky]

-U2

[Draco Lucky]

Possibly? I think RC was more likely killed because Vedith said he’d investigate him. I’m not putting a ton of stock in his reads because he was both wrong in his solve, you’re pretty confident town, and Micc is pretty confident scum

yeah, im sure vedith had something to do with the kill. Not arguing that.

Same question to you as Dr. Worm, though.

Who is scum!Junko's partner?

-U2

[Draco Lucky]

One of either Dr Worm or xwing imo.

any association based tells for these, or just poe?

[Draco Lucky]

VOTE: Junkochan

same question to you, mate

Who is Junko's partner and why?

-U2

[Draco Lucky]

We exchanged a few posts over the night phase where we agreed that RC either had to be checked or lynched, but that's really all.

I haven't heard from him since this day phase started.

-U2

[Draco Lucky]

Slaxx and I are supposed to talk about reads tonight. If that doesn't happen, I'll get you guys my thoughts tomorrow a.m.

-U2

[Draco Lucky]

Heard from slaxx

We're pretty all-in on scum!junko. Either the designated bus at this point (yes) or we're all walking off a cliff together.

PP?

-U2

[Draco Lucky]

Slaxx is pretty confident Xwing is town.

I'm not as confident. That last reads list was bad. Last scum is still likely Bbmolla or Dann

-U2

Worm and Dann are good checks if junko is town

[Draco Lucky]

Every time I read 847 the more i like {junko, xwing}. it didn't have to be the designated bus. it's just this

-U2

[Draco Lucky]

Xwing: Overall town game couldn't find traces of scum malice

-U2

[Draco Lucky]

As long as we're being paranoid, part of me wonders if our poe wasn't total shit (sorry pp) and that dann was white knighting us against 3 now-confirmed town because we didn't have either of scum!{dann, xwing} in our poe

-U2

[Draco Lucky]

How often does town!RC whiff completely on his reads, I wonder.

-U2

[Draco Lucky]

Slaxx here.

Junko’s reads list is bad. Overall contrived feel to it. Pushes two easier people to push (no offense Bb) and doesn’t give much reasoning for any reads. The wording on x-wing felt very contrived in particular and I’m not going to get over that.

[Draco Lucky]

Also her only real substantial reasoning for voting Worm is that he switched on Vedith, which U2 did as well. And RC.

I’m surprised no one pointed out that she tried to play off Worms switch as adjacent to each other when in reality there was 4-5 pages of content in between, including RC’s case and I believe some of Vediths early reaction to it.

-Slaxx

[Draco Lucky]

So you rather have dr worm and bbmolla alive? ???

Maybe I should just start talking nonsense or saying minimal oneliners to be seen as town

I'm lazy as town so it might fit me

On topic this doesn't make sense to me, if PP decides to finish me I'm venging dr worm or bbmolla

This is also a scummy post. Basically highlights she is activity hunting and not scumhunting, and expecting to be framed as town for what’s amounted to pretty surface-level analysis of the game.

-Slaxx

[Draco Lucky]

Votecount 1.Final

Target	Wagon
0verki11 (6)	xwing (207), Dannflor (214), Draco Lucky (236), PenguinPower (248), BBMolla (258), Dr Worm (281)
Micc (1)	Creature (143)
Dannflor (1)	Vedith (211)
BBMolla (1)	Micc (134)
Not Voting (2)	0verki11, DoubtingThomas

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. 0verki11 has been lynched.

And just to ice the cake,

She says that her scumhunting led her to the conclusion scum double bussed.

But for anyone remotely paying attention, from her point of view, she should have realized that right away. DT is dead Townie, Ok was scum, Vedith is dead Townie, Creature is dead Townie. All that’s left is her.

It all feels contrived.

[Draco Lucky]

I believe his point is that it's unrealistic that your "scum hunting abilities" led you to believe it was a bus because

From your perspective, every slot not on the OK wagon was already confirmed town.

It had nothing to do with your choice of scum read.

-U2

[Draco Lucky]

I have played enough mafia to get a feel for it, that was a bus and there is at least one mafia between worm and bbmolla is it too hard to understand?

I always scum hunt thinking what would I have done in that position.

I'm still venging worm or bbmolla if pp hammers me

See that's the point, though.

From your perspective, you don't have to have a feel for mafia. You just have to look at the vote counts and flips to know - FOR A FACT - that there were two scum on Ok's wagon.

That you still don't seem to grasp that point shows pretty conclusively that you're not actually trying to solve the game.

-U2

[Draco Lucky]

Oh cool

I was right.

Yes. U2 is correct. The fact Junko still isn’t picking up on why it’s an issue is heavily scum indicative. It wouldn’t be as potent of a tell is the hadn’t quoted that wagon and did some surface analysis on it, but I find it very hard to believe that she didn’t realize, as town, both scum had to be on the OK wagon. The fact she still doesn’t realize why its a tell pretty much solidifies what we are saying about the reads and post being contrived.

[Draco Lucky]

-Slaxx

[Draco Lucky]

@xwing

Paragraph 2 of your wall on dann is just pure ate
Paragraph 3 is "I have no reasons why I think Bbmolla is scum so I'm just going to throw up my hands because it's not like I can convince anyone anyway"
Paragraph 4 is a lecture on how we should have lynched JC yesterday, so now we're stuck with the slot? Like, what?

and then at the end you're clearly self-aware that what you're doing ("call it a vanity vote or whatever") isn't pro-town, but you commit to it anyway.

The whole thing reads scummy

-U2

[Draco Lucky]

*eye roll* you don't get it

Pedit: i think there's a high chance they are both scum but i'm dead sure at least one of them is

did you get draco's point about that particular VCA, though?

I think I do but I still think he is wrong

1. You say due to scumhunting you think both scum bussed
2. If you’re town, you know both scum bussed based on the very VC you quoted, as everyone off wagon is town
3. I don’t see town doing a genuine analysis and not noticing this
4. Therefore, you’re scum

It’s reinforced by the fact you were slow to pick up on the point.

That’s it. You’re caught.

-Slaxx

[Draco Lucky]

*eye roll* you don't get it

Pedit: i think there's a high chance they are both scum but i'm dead sure at least one of them is

did you get draco's point about that particular VCA, though?

I think I do but I still think he is wrong

Votecount 1.Final

Target	Wagon
0verki11 (6)	xwing (207), Dannflor (214), Draco Lucky (236), PenguinPower (248), BBMolla (258), Dr Worm (281)
Micc (1)	Creature (143)
Dannflor (1)	Vedith (211)
BBMolla (1)	Micc (134)
Not Voting (2)	0verki11 , DoubtingThomas

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. 0verki11 has been lynched.

@junko This is the final day 1 vote count colored to match your pov. You didn't need a "feel" for the game to reach the conclusion of a bus. You just had to read the game. Not even the game, just the mod posts.

That's why it's obvious you're not solving. If there is an explanation for this error, now would be the time, mate.

[Draco Lucky]

-U2

[Draco Lucky]

My scumhunting powers tell me that day 1 lynch was an outright bus, keep that in mind

Penguinpower: town (duh)

Xwing: Overall town game couldn't find traces of scum malice

Dannfloor: this is town dann gameplay no doubts, he is usually more fency as scum

Draco Lucky: I'm still null on this slot, could be mafia but I wouldn't be surprised if they weren't tbh

BBMolla: Scumlean After saying we would wait for Micc's replacement to appear votes me right away without even giving me a chance to give my vision of the game.

Dr.Worm: scum read, thinks he can hide behind his gimmick, but you can't tell me that this isn't odd:

DR WORM LIKES YOUR LAST POAST MR VADETH!!

FIANLLY MORE VEDITH VOTES!!

Starts "having second thoughts" about Vedith and suddenly he is happy that votes are pilling on Vedith (who btw anyone really thought he was scum???) like why

I can see these 2 in a team and OH remember that I said I had a feeling that overkill lynch was an outright bus? look at this:

Votecount 1.Final

Target	Wagon
0verki11 (6)	xwing (207), Dannflor (214), Draco Lucky (236), PenguinPower (248), BBMolla (258), Dr Worm (281)
Micc (1)	Creature (143)
Dannflor (1)	Vedith (211)
BBMolla (1)	Micc (134)
Not Voting (2)	0verki11, DoubtingThomas

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. 0verki11 has been lynched.

BBMolla and Dr worm both voted Overkill when the lynch was pretty much decided.

I rest my case.

I'll come up and say Mr Worm, PP and xwing are town

btw i suspect creature was killed because this is right

{RC, PP, xwing, worm}
molla ????
{Micc, Draco}
{Vedith, Dannflor} btw

this seems relevant. Added note: RC later said that he had micc too low on the list

-U2

In my experience, mafia always kills whoever they think is more treatening or whoever is not scumreading them

Assumung we are all at least semi experienced here the first one is less likely, by killing RC who had the same reads as Creature it basicly locktowns those reads

Tbh I don't understand how after all that happened day 2 Dr.worm is still not dead

VOTE: Dr.worm

Unralated: I became what what I hate the most, a replacement ugh this is trully despair inducing<3

Your entry post (second one) implies you read Day 2. That post alone makes zero sense because you should have locktownres Worm.

The post in question came well after that post. The progression makes no sense as town. The whole ISO doesn’t.

[Draco Lucky]

Oh my bad about the piece about locktown I misunderstood

Doesn’t change the first piece though

[Draco Lucky]

@xwing You don't think junko is scum, so I disagree that we have the same reads.

I also don't know why having the same reads means I should town read you.

As to whether or not your frustration feels real, I don't know mate. All I'm really confident on is that junko is scum

-U2

[Draco Lucky]

PP asked for the hammer, and he's an IC. Were it not for this, you would be hammered already.

-U2

[Draco Lucky]

If you really just want the day to end, you can always self vote ;P

-U2

[Draco Lucky]

I’d do it if I wasn’t hydra-ing with U2.

Now I’m not doing it because it looks like you’re trying to goad someone into hammering so they’ll look worse tomorrow since PP said not to.

-Slaxx

[Draco Lucky]

I’d do it if I wasn’t hydra-ing with U2.

Now I’m not doing it because it looks like you’re trying to goad someone into hammering so they’ll look worse tomorrow since PP said not to.

-Slaxx

Fair, you got one ball

*Insert inflamed response due to triggered toxic masculinity here*

[Draco Lucky]

Testicular cancer affects more people than you think =/

-U2

[Draco Lucky]

oh, slaxx, i see we're on the same page lolol

-U2

[Draco Lucky]

VOTE: Junko

gross.

There goes my hero

Watch him as he goes

Penguin penguin penguin

His home is always froze

-Slaxx

[Draco Lucky]

Testicular cancer affects more people than you think =/

-U2

1 in 8 teenage women die of testicular cancer or car accidents

[Draco Lucky]

You know people can be born with one testicle right? Doesn't necesarily means cancer or whatever

Yeah, I'm just talking about my own personal experience here

-U2

[Draco Lucky]

I think we should probably just keep talking about testicles to avoid post-hammer WIFOM

Who knows where the Vas Deferens are?

-Slaxx

[Draco Lucky]

Actually scratch that young people play and even in a medical sense that’s weird and not okay

-Slaxx

[Draco Lucky]

Yeah...good call.

Truly I’m not known for good calls so I appreciate it.

Any last knowledge to impart on us before you head to the big glacier in the sky?

-Slaxx

[Draco Lucky]

I'm here Mr. Dr Worm

-Slaxx

[Draco Lucky]

See Worm, you’re never alone.

You had the power of friendship in all your segments this whole time!

-Slaxx

[Draco Lucky]

I’m leaning Dann and U2 is leaning Xwing.

When I have desktop tomorrow I’ll review. We just need two townreads we can agree on and we win.

[Draco Lucky]

I don't know where Slaxx is, but I'll get to this game in the morning

I'm wavering on my read atm

Dann, did you end up doing any VCA?

-U2

[Draco Lucky]

Okay, so the last time I talked with Slaxx our reads looked like this

Slaxx
Scum in Xwing, Dann, BBmolla
Most likely last scum Dann
Most likely town Dr Worm

U2
Scum in Xwing, Dann, Dr. Worm
Most likely last scum Xwing
Most likely town BBmolla

Now I'm more like
Scum in Xwing, Dann, Dr. Worm
Most likely last scum Dr. Worm
Most likely town BBmolla

We both had town read dr worm for the interaction with micc during d1 twilight and for JC's vote on Dr. Worm D3

But in retrospect, if I'm JC coming into a game as the most likely lynch, I think I vote my partner as often as not for wifom?
And the Dr. Worm/micc interaction is not clearing, neither is micc saying there was probably a bus in the back half (but probably not from dr. worm)
Further, a dr worm + micc pairing makes more sense than either Dann or Junko when you consider Micc's attempts to divert the wagon off of OK D1. It was a pretty blatant attempt in retrospect - it got his slot lynched eventually - and it doesn't make sense to me to go at it like that after a partner has initiated the push. This is def the case for Dann, who made a passionate push for OK's lynch, but also true for xwing to a lesser extent.

Also, I think the problem with our Dann/xwing reads are this. All game we have been going back and forth on their alignments because there is a good amount of stuff that pings as town from these slots, and a good amount of stuff that pings scum. And I think this is probably indicative of us being wrong about both.

I don't want to place a vote before talking with Slaxx if I can help it because this is not the consensus we had come to prior to the day beginning.

[Draco Lucky]

-U2

[Draco Lucky]

JUNKACHON thinkgs DR WORM is HANG LOW FRUIT but DR WORM is GETTING BETTER at MAFIA!!

DR WORM HAMMERED SCUM DAY ONE!!

DR WORM not so GREAT day two..

JUNKACHON is SCUM in my HEART and my MIND!!

VOTE: JUNKACHON!!

Also, Dr. Worm just ignores the micc wagon all through D2, and then is like "yup, ,that's scum" as soon as they vote him.

This feels like a strategic bus more than an organic change in read, but who can really tell with this style

[Draco Lucky]

I’m leaning Dann and U2 is leaning Xwing.

When I have desktop tomorrow I’ll review. We just need two townreads we can agree on and we win.

Why are you guys still this divisive when Slaxx apparently has a very strong xwing read? Have you guys had a chance to discuss these with each other at all?

I mean, I think both of us are continually reevaluating. Slaxx thinks xwing is the second most likely slot to be scum.

@dann what are your thoughts on Dr. Worm?

[Draco Lucky]

DRACO do YOUS THINK SCUMTREAM planned WORM TO SOLO WIN through 2 BUSES??

NO-WAY HO-ZAY!!

So day 1 I don't think you guys were planning to bus.

Wagon starts on OK, micc tries to turn the wagon to someone else, but fails. He can't jump on at that point because he's come out against it, so when it looks all but inevitable you jump on with that big whole show to lend it some town cred.

Then D2, you didn't want to bus, so you sat on vedith, which eventually became the lynch.

D3, with RC gone, and basically the entire game scum reading micc, there was no benefit for you not to bus, so you did. And junko votes you to give you some wifom to hide behind.

In short, no I don't think you guys planned to double bus and send you all the way to 3p lylo. I think you were forced into it.
-U2

[Draco Lucky]

Hey guys, it is Slaxx.

I've decided Xwing/BB are town. These are almost all from Day 1/Day 2 in regards to Micc interactions, as OK's wagon was imminent fairly early and Junko's wagon was fairly imminent day 3. Everything about Micc and BB's interactions felt like TvS so I didn't elaborate on them much, but if anyone has doubts we can discuss them. They are fairly evident.

Spoiler: Xwing Town

xwing

okay i think i'll go for this slot:
VOTE: overkill

i think you're mostly posting fluff and actively lurking so far..
hope that changes on your wall post..(hope it's not THAT BIG of a wall though..)
how's your read so far?
what do you think of bb?

xwing was the first one on OK and I don't think that post is SvS.

Everything on page 10 screams Xwing town... they were catching flak for not pressuring Dann and had every opportunity to join the wagon and get off Overkill.

what do you think of micc's argument against your reaction test? you find it AI?
how was dann and vedith's reactions townie compared to others? (e.g. me and micc, from the top of my head..not sure if there were others who voted)

This is one of those goofy tells, but do scum really admit that their buddy is off the top of their head? Like if we were scum do I post "Off the top of my head tell me why you're not townreading U2 and I?"...it is a bit silly but I put a lot of stock in small stuff like that as long as it feels natural.

why is micc scummy? and why did you decide overkill is the better wagon, even if dann (your scum read iirc) is on it?

i like all the days, i just hate RVS so i guess D1 is technically what i hate the most too..
you're more of a flip type of player?

This is +xwing town. Xwing isn't really pressuring PP here and basically giving him a chance to towntell in relation to two of the scum wagons, when he was a viable ML. If this turned into pressure it would be high +scum for xwing but it did not, so I think this is more +town.

Spoiler: BB Town

bbMolla

{Vedith}

{Micc}

{Creature, x-wing}

{Draco Lucky, Dannflor}

{northsidegal, Dr Worm}

{BBmolla}

{0verki11}

{DoubtingThomas}

...you have a read on the mod?

VOTE: BBmolla
Self voting for reactions really falls apart when you’re not reading the thread.

Big +town for BB

How is that relevant to the quote?

Penguin explained that list in post 65 and yet you’re still asking about it. I don’t see how you miss that while claiming to be reading for reactions.

Big +town for BB

Skimming

You or someone asked me what I learned so I went back to read the things I didn’t notice

This makes sense to me. I was the one who asked.

But then why is Micc's vote on you horrid? You claimed to be hunting for reactions, but you clearly (and now admittedly) weren't reading the thread very carefully. Do you think it is unlikely that town!micc would scum read you for this? If so, why?

-U2

Micc spent all of the early game discussing theory.

His transition out of it was to vote me.

It's lazy and pretty easily scumplay trying to disguise as scumhunting.

Big town for BBMolla

VOTE: Dr Worm

I have a whole bunch of stuff on Dann I can post if you wish, but I keep gyrating on my read. There's some heavy town-Dann stuff in there in Dann -> Micc interactions but some heavy scum Dann stuff from Micc-> Dann interactions. Since we know Micc is scum I am giving dann the BotD and willing to defer to U2 on Dr. Worm and assume Micc was trying to set up a Dann ML later on.

-Slaxx

[Draco Lucky]

Nah, it’s all interactions. And almost everything is the way Micc acted towards you.

The fact you came in here today and shrunk your lynchpool is making me think I’m right (or rather U2 is right- he realized it first) on Worm. I agree that the vengecop thing is LAMIST. The double bus line also felt very contrived, like he had that ready to go if he came under fire.

I also don’t think we should direct the vengecop. I’m fine with just leaving BBMolla out of the pool but not saying anymore than that. The smaller we shrink the pool the higher the odds get scum hits the IC tomorrow, provided we get the lynch and investigation wrong.

[Draco Lucky]

But let’s talk about it homies, where do you all stand and why

yes please let's talk wru

Thoughts on the dr

vinnie boombatz

worm?

-U2

[Draco Lucky]

@bbmolla glad to hear it.


Let's gooooooooooooooooooooooooo

-U2

[Draco Lucky]

IT"S OK!! WORM REEDY TO DIE!! JUST WAIT LONGER PLEASE!!

...why?

Also it’s one scum left.... counterwagon makes no sense here?

[Draco Lucky]

-Slaxx

[Draco Lucky]

Spoiler:

-U2

[Draco Lucky]

do it

drop the hammer

do it do it do it

DO IT

Kill him

If you cut a worm in half it makes two worms

Must smash with hammer

MUST SMASH INTO WORM JUICE

Respectfully,
U2

[Draco Lucky]

dann or xwing and hopefully we get a check between the two

But like, it's worm

-U2

[Draco Lucky]

I’d probably wager going without water for two days that it wasn’t x-Wong.

60-Worm
30-Dann
8-X
2-BB


Slaxx