Merchant's Daughter [Endgame]

[Nancy Drew 39]

Krazy what are your reads rn and why? I want all of them and substantial explanation.

I don't think my list from a while back has dramatically shifted. Alisae scumlean, thebrie null but lowest no so default to null-scum, still thinking about pb

Worm went up a bit, still working on bottom gent order, dt kinda sitting at the bottom with moment but I kinda doubt they're both scum and aren't even feeling great I have 1 in the 2, just a poe basically

How are you on reads rn? Who is your bottom ladies/gents?

Why are PB and DT so low?

[Nancy Drew 39]

I don't trust Nancy to leave someone unless she actually wants to. She is the most stubborn player here.

I know that I'm town though.

Why wouldn't I want someone who isn't going to walk out?

You can want it. I am just saying this is a concern for me because first of all I think ur more useful paired to someone that you could kill if you figured out they were scum.

Also as Krazy suggests if both of u and nancy are town. U are 100% dying.

C’mon now, not everyone is obvtown reading me, unlike Taly.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I don't trust Nancy to leave someone unless she actually wants to. She is the most stubborn player here.

I just think nancy is more useful sorting someone in a pt who is less town than herself

But there is merit in pairing her with someone that will give her high wim

I’m glad you understand how important it is, that I feel confident about that. There are certain players I’m just not going to mesh well with and I’d rather leave pre-dance then be paired up with them.

[Nancy Drew 39]

it helps the game state in a lot of ways if they die imo. that might be a little mean.

Bad puppy! Bad puppy! *wacks FB on the nose with a newspaper*

[Nancy Drew 39]

I would support ank/rc tbh

Not sure either is that into it tho and I dont want to fuck with wim

I think hell will freeze over first.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I wasn’t talking about actual gender but are you saying that you really think the scumteam could be either all ladies or all gents?

Beacause I don’t think that’s ever happened before in this kind of setup.

I believe the scumteam is random, so the odds of this happening are somewhere in the ballpark of 1/8. Just because it's never happened doesn't mean it's impossible.

Mybe? but I still think unlikely.

[Nancy Drew 39]

none of the previous dance games had all scum of one gender.
FG does a RNG for alignments among player list.

Yeah, that’s what I thought.

[Nancy Drew 39]

ND why haven't you commented on anything I've said or anyone's said about you this page lol

I think I have now.

[Nancy Drew 39]

She posts like she is mathblade, what do u expect.

What exactly does that mean?

How is my posting even remotely similar?

[Nancy Drew 39]

has anyone read PinkBalls iso this game and just gone "wow this is a good read. 10/10 funniest best posts in this game".

I was in agreement until I got to the part where he said he didn't like U2.

Yeah, I say we powerlynch him for that.

U2 is awsome.

Spoiler:

[Nancy Drew 39]

it’s not going to make that much of a difference to scum but if people are making questionable reads for not really great reasons, that I think, is still the best way to sort people, Do you disagree with that?

Honestly this is where my scum reads on Pvt and Allo come from. They both feel similar to "having reads just for the sake of having reads"

Nancy, what are Pink Ball's favorite flowers?

I have no idea, sorry. I’ve already said mine are lillacs. My dad planted a lillac garden for me.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I still think unless you have an actual hierarchy or lynch order, it’s not going to make that much of a difference to scum but if people are making questionable reads for not really great reasons, that I think, is still the best way to sort people, Do you disagree with that?

I will grant that preferred sorting methods differ from person to person. I don't think that "questionable reads for not really great reasons" is something easy to sort based off of, but maybe other people have had success with that method.

And you don't need to give a hierarchy to give information to scum... any statement of "X is obvtown", "X is locktown", "I'm never voting X", etc, gives scum a hint for who to IC.

But then. on what basis do you suggest we pair up?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Honestly this is where my scum reads on Pvt and Allo come from. They both feel similar to "having reads just for the sake of having reads"

Oh no. No no no.

Can't bait me if I have my mouth closed

Huh?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Could be but coming from someone who was fooled by scum in a hood in Labrynth, I’m not sure how much confidence the rest of town ought ought to have on that read, if the majority disagree with it.

I mean, it's your prerogative to not use your hood. If you're afraid of being pocketed by it, then it's understandable.

I didn't solely mean that we should pair with people we can read

in a hood

, but rather just people we can read in general.

Well, it’s a shame I can’t pair with Ank, in that case.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I don't think that's actually a scum trait. Town feel the pressure to generate reads as much as scum do.

I think town are more willing to admit their reads are bad/lazy or that they just don't have strong reads on anyone.

To be fair, Pvt has been more open on this than Allo, but that's why he's higher for me

I view that as NAI. I’ve seen both town and scum do that.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I think if you pair with Taly over me, the chances of that happening increase exponentially.

I think Taly is the most widely obvtownread lady - if not player - in this setup. Not a single person in this game, has said otherwise.

Literally this is the one thing I was trying to avoid lol... cue paranoia.

Why am I town again?

No one appears to scumread you so far. Nothing you have said has even remotely pinged me. I’m not sure why you’d be paranoid about

my

townreading you, in particular?

And you know I can’t elaborate on that.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I think Taly is the most widely obvtownread lady - if not player - in this setup. Not a single person in this game, has said otherwise.

You disagree with that?

[Nancy Drew 39]

What is the pace you currently think Dance 1 should go at?

Unless we get a red flip in the pre-dance exclusion, I think the first lynch should happen within 12 hours of daybreak.

Why 12 hours, specifically?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Say you're mine

Not so fast. Why are you my ideal pairing?

And you know I was burned by Slaxx in the previous go round by doing that. He promised me and then he asked Dunn instead.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I’ve never played with scum!him but I just don’t think this is it.

Scum-RC's basically a god of scumplay. No, he's not ACTUALLY a god of scumplay, but he's BASICALLY a god of scumplay...

RC is a very strong scum player. Since you haven't played with him as scum, I'd recommend you not allow him to get above null-town unless you're explicitly sheeping someone else who knows him better.

Well, like I’ve already stated, if I think he has greater scum equity than any other players left, I will leave. so I’m not sure why that’s such a problem? Rn, he hasn’t done anything to ping me, so if he starts saying weird shit in our PT, it won’t escape me.

But maybe people who actually have played with scum!RC, should weigh in.

@Krazy for one, seems to townlean him here. Right?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Gents Unstructured top 5: Krazy, RC, Dannflor, Dr Worm, PvtUrist
Gents somewhat structured bottom 4:
Allomancer
Vedith
Moment
DoubtingThomas

Ladies unstructured top 5: Ankamius, Firebringer, Nancy Drew 39, Gamma Emerald, Taly
Ladies somewhat structured bottom 3:
Pink Ball
TheBrie
Something_Smart

How do you have Taly so low?

[Nancy Drew 39]

I don't think I get paranoia lynched

I do think I potentially have my partner walk out on me

I think that I'm objectively a Towny player as town and wasting the +equity that gives because I have a good scum game that people may end up scared of is the worse play if I play this setup 50 times In a row in terms of average winrate

People need to judge everyone how they play, in THIS game.

[Nancy Drew 39]

You're not helping their case that I'm gonna pocket you lol

If you’re seriously trying to pocket me here, then you really need to step up your game.

[Nancy Drew 39]

C’mon now, not everyone is obvtown reading me, unlike Taly.

That’s like the second time you’ve done that. Why?

[Nancy Drew 39]

I think he meant Mastina

That’s a relief then.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I wasn’t talking about actual gender but are you saying that you really think the scumteam could be either all ladies or all gents?

Beacause I don’t think that’s ever happened before in this kind of setup.

I believe the scumteam is random, so the odds of this happening are somewhere in the ballpark of 1/8. Just because it's never happened doesn't mean it's impossible.

Mybe? but I still think unlikely.

Oh no wait, I'm dumb. It should be in the ballpark of 1/4. 1/8 each for all-gent and all-lady team.
The exact numbers are 12.4% for all gents and 8.2% for all ladies, for a total of 20.6%.

So actually, it is kind of surprising that there's never been a team like that.

I have trouble seeing that with this mechanic.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I'm struggling to think of two posting styles more different than mastina and Nancy lol

Yeah, I both hate reading and typing wall posts. That’s why MU light games, are the bane on my Mafia existence.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I'm struggling to think of two posting styles more different than mastina and Nancy lol

I thought of it as a very specific reference to team mafia where mastina refused to address current content

Am I not doing that?

[Nancy Drew 39]

I'm still open to RC as a partner.

This is NOT taking away from my reads on Nancy or Krazy though

Also what does WIM mean?

>Vedith, why haven't you asserted your scumread on me?

Wants it more

[Nancy Drew 39]

Dr Worm asking the REAL questions!
To add to it Nancy, have you always read RC as town in every game?

No, I thought he was scum for at least part of DnD Mafia, for the way his slot was deathtunnlling mine but RC and my hydra partner had “history”, so that probably had more to do with it than anything else.

And I remember him entering the thread in MU Secrets and Lies, calling me scum, like 50 thousand times, which initially made me suspicious but I have so far seen no evidence of an agenda from RC, which is why I think he’s town and Krazy also seems to townread him and he has played with scum!RC.

However, his play here somewhat reminds me of MU Throne of Lies, where he hard defended me similarly.

[Nancy Drew 39]

WHY do THINK RC-NANCERY is good PARTNERSHIP if NANCERY has never played with SCUMRADIENTCOWBALLS?!?!

I mean, I don't think RC/Nancy is the best for gamewin or gamesolve

I just don't want Nancy giving up because she doesn't like her dance partner

I'd still personally prefer something like Nancy/Dann, RC/Ank, I just don't think I have any traction there and I'm not going to force it

Dann hasn’t shown any real interest in asking me though. :/. and I think you have a better chance of winning the lottery, then RC/Ank pairing up.

Yeah, I will definitely leave if I don’t get a partner I like. I sign up for these games to have fun.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I don't townread ankamius and I'm going to be hard angling to kill her in first dance while I'm definitively alive to make it happen tbh

All my other wolfread aren't going to endgsney

I will fight you on that, jsyk.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I don't townread ankamius and I'm going to be hard angling to kill her in first dance while I'm definitively alive to make it happen tbh

All my other wolfread aren't going to endgsney

I'm gonna assume it's also a no but Gamma?

I really don't understand where you're coming from with most things Krazy
Why are you trying to convince me not to take ND
If it's a worry of her getting pocketed or nightkilled why not ask her

If I’m being pocketed by anyone in this game, it’s definitely not you.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Okay, here's my 2 pence. RC with either SS or Taly. \o/

Why SS?

[Nancy Drew 39]

RC with ... SS

That would give me very unpleasant Lone Wolf flashbacks.

???

[Nancy Drew 39]

If you think I'm a wolf why not try to convince ND to not pair with me as opposed to trying to convince someone acting in bad faith to make a different decision for... I'm not sure what town or scum me is supposed to get out of not pairing ND

I don't have a gamma read

Where I’m at, is that I only want to pair up with someone I think I can mesh well with and there are a limited number of slots on the gents’ side, that applies to.

[Nancy Drew 39]

But then. on what basis do you suggest we pair up?

Pair with someone you can work well together with and someone you can read.

I think the two go together. If I am constantly fighting with my partner, I will probably just be too upset to do anything useful.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I'm not sure what town or scum me is supposed to get out of not pairing ND

town you gets Nancy Drew alive second dance to be partnered with a townpair you're confident in

I guess I don't get why you're acting like you will definitely be alive second dance or why you want to be paired with someone who is widely townread

in halloween's ball you picked someone that you thought was being unfairly scumread and thus the scum nightkill was focused on you and that player was prevented from being mislynched

so I don't see why it feels like you are shifting strategies when you had one that worked well I guess

No, that is not true at all. Sakura was obvtown in that.

[Nancy Drew 39]

halloween's ball you picked someone that you thought was being unfairly scumread and thus the scum nightkill was focused on you and that player was prevented from being mislynched

This is inaccurate

I picked someone who was 100% town and I picked them early because I saw they were getting upset and I wanted to keep them happy.

Honestly, you were one of the main reasons, I changed my mind about replacing out.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I certainly don't think it's a good idea for everyone to try to pair up with someone they townread.

People who are obvtown as town should pair with other townread players. But people who are not often or easily townread should pair with other people like that. In particular, if two common scumreads pair with each other it becomes very awkward for scum if one of them is scum.

Doesn’t that put an NK target on the most obvious one and then there’s the scum IC reveal, in second dance.

[Nancy Drew 39]

If I had not been conftown I would have pretended to townread LLD, paired with her, and immediately left.

You doing that would probably have cost town the game.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I picked someone who was 100% town and I picked them early because I saw they were getting upset and I wanted to keep them happy.

ok that's fair, and as I said, if Nancy is just uninterested in a different dance partner that's fair

I just don't think it's wise to put all our eggs in one basket, but I'm not like deathly opposed to this

although I would like to see you sort Gamma since I'd just like your opinion on that slot regardless of other matters

I think I have made it very clear, who I would and would not consider pairing with.

[Nancy Drew 39]

You disagree with that?

I certainly do.

Are you going to say why?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Say you're mine

Not so fast. Why are you my ideal pairing?

And you know I was burned by Slaxx in the previous go round by doing that. He promised me and then he asked Dunn instead.

Because you're gorgeous and I'm shallow what can I say?

[Nancy Drew 39]

But maybe people who actually have played with scum!RC, should weigh in.

Pretty sure I just normally call RC scum to be on the safe side.

That’s a really bad strategy, IMO. He has really great reads, for the most part,

[Nancy Drew 39]

@Krazy for one, seems to townlean him here. Right?

I give his scumgame enough credit that I think it's worth sorting him and getting a feel for his thought process but he hasn't moved from my top bracket, no.

Yeah, As far as I’m concerned, anyone who hasn’t pinged me, that I think I can mesh well with, is someone I’d be willing to pair with.

Like I will 100% leave, then pair with moment, even if I townread him.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Thats dissonance and I really really REALLY do not like that

RC is probably scum.

Spoiler:

I have a lot of townreads

Feelsgoodman

TBH

I haven't even read NDS iso

I'm just assuming she's villa based on how you've described her which sounds a lot like her villa game

I wolfread SS.

I feel bad about alibae

I townread DT pretty hard before I looked at his iso in depth, pulling that read back and saying I really don't know.

Alisae was null

SS is scummy

Moment, TheBrie, SS, Pvturists are my strongest wolf reads as of right now. I'm very uncomfortable with how closely that aligns with sorting by post count. Hopefully one of them does something to show me that I'm wrong?

Taly I think is most likely village!

Dannflor iso is fakeable but definitely veers heavily to town

Anyone hav scum dannflor meta?

There's some points of non-sync here but the points of non-sync are places where I'm second guessing myself anyway or feel like I can see where you're coming from

compared to your scumgame this much overlap makes me feel pretty ok with my read on you

[Nancy Drew 39]

Who knows him better again?

I don't know your experience with a lot of players in this game. I know Fire knows you, I'd bet that Ank, Gamma, and Vedith also do. Depending on who Pink Ball is an alt of he may also qualify.

I know RC enough to know that if he's scum I would probably replace out. I had my doubts joining this game because he inned before me, but I decided to give him and myself a second chance. And I'm saying giving myself a second chance 'cause I don't think it's RC's fault that I feel this way about him, it's entirely on me.

That being said, I've had a wonderful time this game. Maybe it's because RC's avatar is so cute now.

I thought it was our slumber parties, where we braided each others’ hair and talk about girl stuff?

[Nancy Drew 39]

I have trouble seeing that with this mechanic.

Trouble seeing what? This is an open setup, those are the numbers...

A scumteam of one gender, based on the coin mechanic.

[Nancy Drew 39]

What does that matter? Either I'm getting to endgame or I'm not. Which is it?

Everyone in this game sees how disingenuous this is right?

Have you played with scum!Ank before?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Nancy, do NOT pair with RC.

I don't trust him to be lynchable if you do, and I have no faith that this is him as town with this bizarro play.

You forget that I always have the perogative to leave, if I choose to do so. I think my RC read is closer to mindmelding with Krazy’s than yours.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Plus I do not buy in any sense that RC scumreads me here, especially with how open I am with outright wanting to pair with one of his other scumreads.

His reads are too easy too, I strongly doubt the scum are THAT level of easy in this game because of all the sketchy sheeping going on so far. I don't know what exactly his plan is besides just surviving to second dance, but I'm starting to strongly suspect he's going to try to solo win with a very townread partner.

Will you give me some credit here? No one is going to snow me here, not even RC.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Dann hasn’t shown any real interest in asking me though.

I think PB would murder me in my sleep

Whatever floats your boat.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I don't townread ankamius and I'm going to be hard angling to kill her in first dance while I'm definitively alive to make it happen tbh

All my other wolfread aren't going to endgsney

I will fight you on that, jsyk.

Fine

dance with me ankamius

I think this is a bad pairing but we’ll see.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Yeah, I will definitely leave if I don’t get a partner I like.

I guess with Dann I was also hoping you might just enjoy the challenge of sorting him in the PT and getting to the point you can feel confident in your read there

kinda goes back to "I'd prefer you in a PT with someone where you're both solving and sorting"

but maybe I'm just asking too much, idk

Dann seems set on PB, so it’s currently not looking great for rn.

[Nancy Drew 39]

accept RC

[Nancy Drew 39]

I would support ank/rc tbh

Not sure either is that into it tho and I dont want to fuck with wim

I think hell will freeze over first.

damn global warming is affecting all kinds of places

Apparently. If we lose, I’m blaming you for suggesting this. So, should I just leave now or later? I’m assuming you’re asking Taly and Dann is asking PB. :/

[Nancy Drew 39]

I feel good about both Nancy and PB in a PT, but I think Nancy and I would be higher candidates for a NK. Which I thought you were trying to avoid, Krazy?

Well, now that RC is off the market, I’m probably going to replace out if I don’t get asked by you or Krazy.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I feel good about both Nancy and PB in a PT, but I think Nancy and I would be higher candidates for a NK. Which I thought you were trying to avoid, Krazy?

Well, now that RC is off the market, I’m probably going to LEAVE, if I don’t get asked by you or Krazy.

[Nancy Drew 39]

So, should I just leave now or later?

why are you browbeating me with this

you of all people might be able to guess why I might want to try sharing a PT with Taly

I think you're awesome Nancy but I need to see your thought process about the other gentlemen outside of "do I like them on a personal level"

I’m not “browbeating” you with anything but you’re the one who pushed Ank and RC together, so don’t you dare pull that on me.

[Nancy Drew 39]

It might have to be me/Nancy and PB/Dr Worm

and PB and I will just be estranged lovers

Ask me? I’m kind of pissed at Krazy rn for his double standards.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Actually I'm pretty sure I did that Nancy

But he’s the one who said you two would be an opimal pairing. I just don’t like him giving me a hard time over my decision.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I’m not “browbeating” you with anything but you’re the one who pushed Ank and RC together, so don’t you dare pull that on me.

If you seriously think I can force RC to do anything he doesn't want to do...

You’re the one criticizing me here.

[Nancy Drew 39]

did

RC/Ank

literally pair just so they can fucking murder/suicide at First Dance?

what the fuck....

The War of the Roses, right here on MS.

[Nancy Drew 39]

did

RC/Ank

literally pair just so they can fucking murder/suicide at First Dance?

what the fuck....

Tbh I wasn't specifically planning to suicide before second dance, I mostly wanted RC to take accountability for his stances

So you're pairing with someone to prove a point rather than your read and cohesion with them as a partner?

That's not good either.

No it isn’t and we’re probably going to lose now. :/

[Nancy Drew 39]

did

RC/Ank

literally pair just so they can fucking murder/suicide at First Dance?

what the fuck....

Tbh I wasn't specifically planning to suicide before second dance, I mostly wanted RC to take accountability for his stances

So you're pairing with someone to prove a point rather than your read and cohesion with them as a partner?

That's not good either.

Well obviously I don't want RC to endgame either

IF YOU'RE TOWN YOUR DEATH IS NOT HELPING US EITHER

And to think, people gave Fire and Vedith grief . . .

[Nancy Drew 39]

Ask me? I’m kind of pissed at Krazy rn for his double standards.

dw you'll get a good date, I'm holding off on asking anyone for at least a little longer

Our two current pairings aren't great, we should make sure our remaining ones are as good as we can make them

And that pairing is stupid enough to be town/town.

very agree

I’m feeling really pessimistic about this game rn, I wish someone/you would cheer me up?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Nancy can you just CHILL

Why? I think the game just got lost.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Like I think people are forgetting that RC literally said that he would specifically look to get me lynched once the dance starts, and yet there is enough support for me to get a relatively town partner that having that go down would be even worse than both of us dying at the start of first dance.

What part of this is specific to

RC's scumrange

?

To an extent, you're letting your pre-game disconnect muddle your thinking, and I think my indignation is pretty well-justified.

So is mine. In an ideal world, I’d be able to pair with you or PB. :/

But I’ll try to hold out hope if Dann asks me. I’m too upset with both Krazy and maybe Ank as well now.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Ask me? I’m kind of pissed at Krazy rn for his double standards.

how is this a double standard

I am asking you to help me sort Dann

I am asking myself to help you sort Taly

you only think it's a double standard from your point of view because you like taly as town more than I like dann as town

but the reality is that I continue to want to feel strong in my sort of taly and think I would enjoy sorting there, and I don't see why you have so little interest in trying to solidify a sort of dann, when sorting dann is really important to a solve, and the townreads thrown at Taly--as anyone has observed--have been given way too easily

I don't want us paired because I trust your reads, I trust my read of you, and I want one of the two of us to win this game for town

me dancing with you at this point would be me throwing up my hands at this game and giving up on a solve

You suggested Ank pair with RC and then she baited him to accept, so you helped eliminate one of the players I was considering choosing, so this is now dependant on Dann asking me.

You and whomever can criticize me all you want but I’m not playing with anyone I don’t both townread and get along with.

[Nancy Drew 39]

like if Moment is just going to be completely inactive in your PT, like he is in thread, why wouldn't you just continue sorting and playing the game?

I'm not "inactive" this game. I have a reasonable level of activity for any game other than one in which upwards of thirty posts are made every twenty four hours and I resent the implication otherwise.

In no way can I be called inactive. Sorry that I don't have a three page ISO and respond to every garbage post in the thread like Nancy Drew does. My first post in this game came before I would even be in prod range and there were already 35 posts.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Spoiler:

RC here's what I'm confused about, not going into your scumread on me which I mentioned is really fucking weird.

If your other wolfreads are not going to reach endgame, why are you that opposed to pairing with me since you can ensure I die that way?

Thats dissonance and I really really REALLY do not like that

RC is probably scum.

It's kind of telling that your stance on it is that you don't want to match someone with scum equity instead.

I don't townread ankamius and I'm going to be hard angling to kill her in first dance while I'm definitively alive to make it happen tbh

All my other wolfread aren't going to endgsney

Then what is this RC

What does that matter? Either I'm getting to endgame or I'm not. Which is it?

You literally said you "all my other wolfreads aren't getting to endgame"

And then you say you won't pair with me because I won't get to endgame.

How is any of that disingenuous.

yeah I didn't have any of my own reasons for that nancy

Don’t you think I could have gotten through to him? But everyone always underestimates me. I hydra’d with RC. I would have been able to convince him. What I forsee happening is that based on what I’ve seen so far, the two of you, will just implode. Prove me wrong. Taly is completely right to be pissed.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Why? I think the game just got lost.

Attitude like this to 1 pairing, I can see why the game was restarted from so many replace outs.
That's a magnificent 4 from me!

In what world am I wrong here? Do you honestly think that the two of them, just by magically sharing a PT, is suddenly going to change their reads on each other?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Can everyone in their next post rank the ladies and gentlemen from towniest to least? Give reasons for top 4 at least

Gents

Allo
Thomas
Moment
Urist
Krazy
Dann
Worm
Vedith
RC

Ladies

Taly
fb
Ank
TheBrie
PB
GE
SS
ND

<3

[Nancy Drew 39]

Your reasons are valid, but I don't see why you're pairing with

RC

if you're entertaining leaving in the first place?

I get where this confusion came from.

That changed when I started getting a sense of where the gamestate was at and how scum were fitting into it. I'm pretty confident now that I'll still be able to make a difference towards building a winning gametstate for town even without making it past first dance.

How so?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Spoiler:

RC here's what I'm confused about, not going into your scumread on me which I mentioned is really fucking weird.

If your other wolfreads are not going to reach endgame, why are you that opposed to pairing with me since you can ensure I die that way?

Thats dissonance and I really really REALLY do not like that

RC is probably scum.

It's kind of telling that your stance on it is that you don't want to match someone with scum equity instead.

I don't townread ankamius and I'm going to be hard angling to kill her in first dance while I'm definitively alive to make it happen tbh

All my other wolfread aren't going to endgsney

Then what is this RC

What does that matter? Either I'm getting to endgame or I'm not. Which is it?

You literally said you "all my other wolfreads aren't getting to endgame"

And then you say you won't pair with me because I won't get to endgame.

How is any of that disingenuous.

yeah I didn't have any of my own reasons for that nancy

Don’t you think I could have gotten through to him? But everyone always underestimates me. I hydra’d with RC. I would have been able to convince him. What I forsee happening is that based on what I’ve seen so far, the two of you, will just implode. Prove me wrong. Taly is completely right to be pissed.

honestly, I have no real qualms of working with him if he decides to try to work with me, and I've already stated multiple times that at the very least, I'm not going to consider suiciding until we reach second dance (and more than likely, it would probably be when there's only 3 pairings left or roughly that ballpark if I do at all).

the bigger pressing issue with that is that he is so convinced of his scumread of me that he's willing to suicide

at the start of first dance

to take me out.

But by pairing up with him, you’ve handed him that power, don’t you see? Had he paired with me OTOH, he would have not had the power to take you out, because then he’d actually have had to persuade people to lynch you.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Nancy

, say something positive or game-advancing and people will be more apt to listen.

Not that you're not doing this - but when you post something like

"this game is lost"

then it's a disconnect and a source for people to think you're producing a scum narrative.

I’m upset because I think they’re going to take each other out in 1st Dance, where as had they partnered with others, they’d have to convince others, so that would have been a lot less likely to happen, so I think we’re losing likely two top towns, right off the bat, so I don’t understand why people are telling me not to feel pessimistic about that.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Nancy, I suggested Ank/RC because I was proposing it as a final 10 pairing.

So saying I suggested RC pair Ank for them to divebomb each other is unfair.

Weren’t you reading their posts to each other? You were basing it on your reads on them, INDIVIDUALLY, not how they would coordinate together and that’s why I’m doubling and tripling down on why that’s so important. The person you pair with, has tremendous power to impact the game, and that isn’t a good thing when two of your townreads scumread each other, is it?

[Nancy Drew 39]

In what world am I wrong here? Do you honestly think that the two of them, just by magically sharing a PT, is suddenly going to change their reads on each other?

I don't care if Ank convinces RC that she's the Easter bunny, the fact people are dramatically over reacting to something and giving the town a massive negative attitude to already losing, or town being doomed is fucking tragic.
Even if they walk dance 1, dance 2, dance 15 or whatever, it doesn't mean shit right now.

It’s still bad for town, whether you see that or not.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Your reasons are valid, but I don't see why you're pairing with

RC

if you're entertaining leaving in the first place?

I get where this confusion came from.

That changed when I started getting a sense of where the gamestate was at and how scum were fitting into it. I'm pretty confident now that I'll still be able to make a difference towards building a winning gametstate for town even without making it past first dance.

How so?

I don't think I'm that far off with my reads

the problem is more who in my PoE list is actually scum and who is just town that I can't see as town yet

A lot of slots aren’t posting, so that doesn’t help too much.

[Nancy Drew 39]

But by pairing up with him, you’ve handed him that power, don’t you see? Had he paired with me OTOH, he would have not had the power to take you out, because then he’d actually have had to persuade people to lynch you.

even if he doesn't actually succeed with that, it's still a huge diversion and you should know me well enough that I'm not going to just let him get away with that without getting up in his face back

that's essentially the same thing, except with a lot more thread vomit attached

The point is that he doesn’t have the same power to get you lynched. Leaving one’s partner, is equivalent to a desperado type of thing.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I’m upset because I think they’re going to take each other out in 1st Dance, where as had they partnered with others, they’d have to convince others, so that would have been a lot less likely to happen, so I think we’re losing likely two top towns, right off the bat, so I don’t understand why people are telling me not to feel pessimistic about that.

I think this whole fiasco has eased their paranoia, which makes it less likely for a yolo bombing to occur. If they're able to work together in the PT, the pairing could turn really good

Does anyone object to me asking Nancy to the dance? soon™

Probably Allo and Moment.

[Nancy Drew 39]

It’s still bad for town, whether you see that or not.

For a start, we don't know officially on alignments (as town, of course). secondly, there's no evidence that it will actually happen.
So no, I don't know if it's bad for town. It could be a blessing to town.

How could it be a blessing?

[Nancy Drew 39]

How could it be a blessing?

How could 1 of them being scum and the other walking out be a blessing?
Not really sure how to answer this so I'll just pretend you never asked.

Well you’re assuming that’s the case, I’m not.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Spoiler:

I think if you pair with Taly over me, the chances of that happening increase exponentially.

I think Taly is the most widely obvtownread lady - if not player - in this setup. Not a single person in this game, has said otherwise.

Literally this is the one thing I was trying to avoid lol... cue paranoia.

Why am I town again?

No one appears to scumread you so far. Nothing you have said has even remotely pinged me. I’m not sure why you’d be paranoid about

my

townreading you, in particular?

And you know I can’t elaborate on that.

It's not your townread in particular, it's the universal townread.

This is a game where pocketing - more than usual - a viable strategy. If I'm being townread without much stated reason OR protest, this tells me multiple things:

1)

Scum know exactly what they want to do with me... Either IC me, NK me, or keep me alive to generate suspicion or WIFOM.

2)

I lose the ability to filter out people's reads and motives since everyone sees me in the same manner, that is - if they don't reason their townread on me.

3)

I become neutralized and predictable - with it being increasingly difficult for me to tell if I'm being pocketed or sweet talked....

...which is very possible, since I've had at least 1 game experience with half the playerlist here.

Taly what are your thoughts on Dannflor?

Spoiler: Here Is What I've Written On My Readslist About Him

Dannflor *Volatile*

+

Read progression is very natural with

me/Urist

, as he's shifted his thoughts without letting a disagreement or opinion influence them.

+

Reevaluating thoughts and continually putting forth more thinking on both reads, pair ideas, and setup without unnecessary guard.

+

Engaging with a lot of people and not sticking to a certain topic or niche in the game

+

I don't have strong reasons for this townread, but nothing has struck out to me as scum

Dann

is a volatile read because I want one-on-one speak with him a bit more so I can sort and understand his viewpoint further.

I probably forgot to note anything else, but he's in the

"Town To Some Degree"

category, and while not my first partner pick, I guess he's an option?

Nancy with Krazy and Taly with PvtUrist is pretty good

Why

Me+PvtUrist

? And

Krazy+Nancy

, if you thought

Krazy

was my best option?

Dann/Taly is a locktown pairing I think

We just need to decide on one more

Can you tell me how

Dann

is locktown from your perspective?

I sincerely doubt that Taly is obvtown.

Can you stop pretending that the last 100 pages don't exist? It reads as very disingenuous, and if you're not understanding people's viewpoint of me now, then how about you ask questions or ISO?

Dann / x
x / Taly
Firebringer / Vedith
ND / Krazy?

Need to fill in those xs

I'm lonely D:

What don't you like about them Taly?

I don't know what prompted people's changes in ideal pairings? I don't disagree? But I don't know what happened?

I'm still considering you as a partner?

Yes, given things I can’t discuss, I now totally understand your paranoia here.

Sorry, if the formatting is messed up here. :/

[Nancy Drew 39]

Dann is a volatile read because I want one-on-one speak with him a bit more so I can sort and understand his viewpoint further.

Hi! I'll engage with you

I'm trying not to do full reads lists anymore because I'm not so sure outlining those helps town more than it hurts now that we're nearing the end of the pre-dance, however, I'll answer specific questions about anyone or anything if you have them.

Okay, so Taly is really really town from the last few pages if somebody still hasn't caught that yet.

Regardless of your thoughts on Nancy, he's been purposefully trying to quell the rabid circular fighting surrounding Nancy without stemming any actual discussion. Continuing to basically flame each other while Nancy has (theoretically?) placed out is just going to go in circles and not accomplish anything. It's similar to how the Allo/Vedith interaction was going earlier. Firebringer/Nancy engaging is never going to produce anything useful, and continual focus on this one point is just going to grind things to a halt if Nancy is indeed replacing out. His concern with the direction of the game too is a very town way of looking at the game.

I'm comfortable slotting this into confident town reads now tbh

This is the original reason I started town reading you btw. More recently, I like the way you've approached giving out reads and how careful you're being. I don't think it's motivated by scum!"I gotta be careful with how I word and place my reads here," but more town!"I want to be helpful and analyze the game but I don't want to give scum too much information."

Also, your paranoia about getting town-read town-pings me too. If you're scum, I don't think you make as big of a deal about it because it makes it easy for you to coast through the game and then just defend yourself using the WIFOM argument later.

Tbf to Taly, I completely understand where his paranoia is coming from, so I don’t scumread him for it. I unfortunately cannot explain my reasoning for it though.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Tbf to Taly, I completely understand where his paranoia is coming from, so I don’t scumread him for it. I unfortunately cannot explain my reasoning for it though.

I town read him for his paranoia anyways

If people who had no meta with me, townlocked me, I’d probably be wondering as well. In my case, I’m far more likely to get wrongly pushed by scum, frequently to their detriment.

[Nancy Drew 39]

If people who had no meta with me, townlocked me, I’d probably be wondering as well.

This is a good thing to watch over that I didn't initially think about.

How are you finding all of these awesome pictures btw?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Nancy do you still townread both RC and me

am I being ignored now

Oh sorry, I missed this. Yeah, I think so.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Ok well

I think Nancy is done with me so Krazy would you be able to convince me on RCtown at all

Can you expand on the stakes of this argument

I thought he was the one threatening to leave you

cause otherwise I'm right now pretty exhausted being dragged along by Taly and I'm almost to the point of getting pissed with Nancy so I would otherwise like to take a break from this game for the day

My read on RC is not 100%, he's a decent lean and I don't want him gone dance 1. That's basically it. That's all I got anyway.

I’m more annoyed at Krazy because I thought he understood where I was coming from. That’s really the extent of it. Why are you pissed at me, @Krazy?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Does anyone object to me asking Nancy to the dance? soon™

Ahem

I object

Why? You didn’t ask me.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Does anyone object to me asking Nancy to the dance? soon™

Ahem

I object

Why? You didn’t ask me.

Yea I changed my mind do whatever.

You had me wondering there for a moment.

@Pink Ball, I will fight you, sorry.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Oh Taly I think I never answered you: I want you with Urist 'cause at this point he's getting scumleaned/read by a lot of people and I'm pretty sure he's town and will be pushed by scum tomorrow. You and Nancy are good partners for him to avoid that. I would offer myself but I'm not widely townread like Nancy and you. Also I still believe DanceFloor should ask me no matter what

I disagree because A) I don’t trust RC and Ank not to nuke each other. B) Fire’s meta is to always leave his parther. C) I honestly believe Dann is the best pairing for me, even better than Krazy or RC.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Oh Taly I think I never answered you: I want you with Urist 'cause at this point he's getting scumleaned/read by a lot of people and I'm pretty sure he's town and will be pushed by scum tomorrow. You and Nancy are good partners for him to avoid that. I would offer myself but I'm not widely townread like Nancy and you. Also I still believe DanceFloor should ask me no matter what

I disagree because A) I don’t trust RC and Ank not to nuke each other. B) Fire’s meta is to always leave his parther. C) I honestly believe Dann is the best pairing for me, even better than Krazy or RC.

If Urist was more widely townread, he would also not be a bad choice but hands down, Dann is the best option for me.

@PB, how about DT? unless Taly wants to pair with him?

[Nancy Drew 39]

We're past the point where that's relevant bby

So that's it? You're going to let me beat you that easily?

I still don’t understand why RC asked you, this is truly insane. *smdh*

[Nancy Drew 39]

well I was kinda hoping RC would help figure out pairings because there's a lot of conflicts going on with that rnow,

Vedith - Firebringer
RadiantCowbells - Ankamius

==========

Dannflor - Nancy Drew
Krazy - Taly
Dr Worm - Pink Ball

Dannflor - Pink Ball
Krazy - Nancy Drew
? - Taly

Dannflor - Taly
Krazy - Nancy Drew
Pink Ball - Dr Worm

These are the main options that have been brought up so far, but afaik, Krazy is against being paired with Nancy. @Krazy, Taly is your ideal match, yea? Do you have other potential matches or are you dead set?

People not mentioned: Allomancer, Moment, PvtUrist, DoubtingThomas, Something_Smart, TheBrie, and Gamma.

A match for Gamma is vaguely important as she's claimed 6 coins. @Gamma, do you have an opinions on who you'd like to go with? It's kind of important it's someone you feel good about.

I think starting to figure out which gent we're leaving behind would help us hammer down pairings. I'd advocate for Allo personally. I do not think Dr Worm should be left behind at this point. PvT I've had enough conflicting thoughts about that I could just be wrong, I just dislike how he's just straight up avoided engaging with me. I'm not very hot on DT either, but I don't have a strong opinion on him yet either way.

It concerns me greatly that Allo, has not even considered re-evaluating his reads on me, unlike Fire. Not feeling too great on moment either rn but DT, Urist and even Worm, should make it to the first dance.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Also I still believe DanceFloor should ask me no matter what

@Pink Ball, I will fight you, sorry.

no fighting plz i dont wanna be responsible for breaking up besties

I think he should seriously consider DT or Urist. We need more than one obvtown couple or more or less obvtown because, one will probably be the NK, so one has to make it to endgame. I already explained why that’s not very likely to happen with the two current pairs, so we need at least two, because scum is killing off one of them.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I really really feel Ankamius and RC are likely both town who just aren't getting through to each other/communicating properly

I'm hoping they somehow manage to turn around and even turn into an obv town pair

Well, that’s a big part of my frustration with Krazy. He based Ank/RC pairing on individual reads and forgot to take into account their blatantly obvious communication difficulties. RC/Taly would have also worked better but it is what it is now. :/

[Nancy Drew 39]

Shoot Worm, Nancy, and S_S

And this is why you hopefully don’t get anywhere near the first dance.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Shoot Ankamius, Toby, Toby

You’re Toby? And no RC, Ank is town here. :/

[Nancy Drew 39]

Did anyone ever get back to me on their urist townread? I don't remember if anyone did or not but I somewhat skimmed the 9 pages while I was asleep so it's possible I missed it

He’s townier than either moment and especially Allo, so it’s in town’s interest he make it to the first dance.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Shoot: Allo, Allo, Allo, Allo, Allo, moment

[Nancy Drew 39]

Nancy, why do you scum read Moment?

Not locked in. I wasn’t a fan of his recent posts. Unlike Allo, he’s probably not likely to yololynch anyone. I’m not townreading him anyway.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Yeah, I had to do the same and hopefully people will appreciate what we did for the greater good. I forgive you boo I love you so much. NANCY MAKE MY MAN THE HAPPIEST MAN ALIVE

I’ll do my best.

[Nancy Drew 39]

By the way if Nancy tells me that you did something wrong to her you'll wake up with a horse's head in your bed

Let’s not get carried away.

I’m sure he’ll be a true gentleman. He won’t play headgames like that callous playboy, RC. *emo hairflip*

[Nancy Drew 39]

Exactly. I'm crazier than Krazy

I knew we would be sisters for life. <3 <3 <3

[Nancy Drew 39]

Today we settle all family business

Only don't tell me that you're innocent for it insults my intelligence

Spoiler:

[Nancy Drew 39]

I already cried the whole day since you guys started suggesting a Dannflor/Nancy pairing. I really wanted to have fun and have our own PT, you can't even IMAGINE the things I would've done to you in that sweet nest of love. But I can't accept being used, that wouldn't be respectful with myself. Nancy bae, I have nothing on you: chicks before dicks forever. Men are PIGS, so I'm going with a worm instead. AND HE'S A DOCTOR BY THE WAY, WHAT DO YOU DO FOR A LINVING HUH??? NOT A DOCTOR I BET

That’s “besties before testes”.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Gamma is town and I hope she pairs with Urist.

I was a little depressed because of not pairing with DanceFloor but after Worm's joke about Nancy's 39502 posts I remembered how much I love him too <3

I ship both of these.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I accept Dr. Worm's invitation

I think you have to issue an invitation to Pink Ball in bold, for the mod to count it.

I’m such a sucker for true love.

[Nancy Drew 39]

take care of pink, dr worm

He wormed his way into PB’s heart. I want to be a bridesmaid at their wedding.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I'll ask Nancy tomorrow, probably

Don't really feel like waiting any longer

That leaves Taly/Krazy probably unless there are any sudden changes of heart

Dann is a real gentleman who doesn’t string you along *cough* RC *cough*.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Nancy Drew 39 502
Ankamius 335
Krazy 279
RadiantCowbells 205
Firebringer 199
Vedith 187
Something_Smart / Alisae 167
Dannflor 166

Allomancer 148
Taly 122

Pink Ball 113
PvtUrist 93
DoubtingThomas 87
Dr Worm 70
Gamma Emerald 65
Moment 22
TheBrie 21

Allo is currently my #1 scumread and Taly, my #2 townread. Interesting.

[Nancy Drew 39]

NANCERY doe"snt have 39502 POSTS the 39 is PART OF HER NAME..

DR WORM doubley CHECKED becuz it FEELS LIKE SHE HAS 39502 posts!!

That would be hella embarrassing if I did.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I'm not getting a good handle on the gentlemen. Of the unpaired, Allo and Urist get on my nerves, and make me inclined to scum read them, but of the two of them I think I could get on better with Allo. Yet Urist is giving more reads, and the fact that the don't fit with the popular opinions, make me think that perhaps i should be townreading him for them.

DoubtingThomas is null now. He's not said enough, and the doubt others have had about him, have begun to creep into me.

Moment I like, and have a gut town read on, but because I like him, I might end up conf-biasing him as town. But since half(ish) of the people scum read me anyway, and others could probably sort him, I don't think I need to worry if he turns out to be scum. More risk that never of us have enough town cred and get mislynched.

Krazy I think is town, but he should go with someone else. I still like the Taly pairing.

Do we want the 8 coin lady to claim? And possibly the five coin? How people deal with it would show some things. Yet maybe it's best if scum gentlemen don't have the information.

I think Brie is town.

[Nancy Drew 39]

fuck

me

Krazy's early posts are even scummier than I thought they were

You think Krazy could be scum here why? I liked his RC case.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Opposite opinion of Dann's entrance than I did at the start of the game btw

I think it's like moderately town upon a reread

+1

[Nancy Drew 39]

Gamma is town and I hope she pairs with Urist.

I was a little depressed because of not pairing with DanceFloor but after Worm's joke about Nancy's 39502 posts I remembered how much I love him too <3

The little critter has been growing on me too.

[Nancy Drew 39]

My read on Alisae and Dannflor changed tho

Oh?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Ok to be honest I'm not as convinced on Gamma as I'm pretending to be, but back then something pinged me townwise

Can you remember what?

[Nancy Drew 39]

ok yeah

whoever dannflor was supposed to be partnered with (Nancy I think?) I still fully support the pairing; he's about at the top of moderate town now.

I'll look into krazy more tomorrow after I sleep. I'm stopping on page 18.

Agree.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I don't think I get paranoia lynched

I do think I potentially have my partner walk out on me

I think that I'm objectively a Towny player as town and wasting the +equity that gives because I have a good scum game that people may end up scared of is the worse play if I play this setup 50 times In a row in terms of average winrate

What?

WHY do THINK RC-NANCERY is good PARTNERSHIP if NANCERY has never played with SCUMRADIENTCOWBALLS?!?!

question for ANYBIDY!!

Presumably, RC believes that Nancy's going to townread him.

For other people, it's just a question of whether they think they can read BOTH RC and Nancy. I'm sure there are people here who can.

I've played with both, but I've never seen through RC's scum game,and haven't finished a game with Nancy.

accept RC

Well that was a surprise. Not so much the acceptance, but the asking. Need to think it over more, but after reading the rest, I'm inclined to think they're both town.

Mindmelding with Brie here.

[Nancy Drew 39]

i'm mentally checked out and i don't want to be giving highly weighted reads when i'm not playing the game anymore

but i stand by dannflor as towniest gent and nd/you as towniest women

+1 (plus Ank)

[Nancy Drew 39]

it's not you lol

i had a fantasy that this town would actually engage with my alignment in good faith after some of the stuff that was said earlier and when that was taken away with me i rly don't have any desire to play anymore

[Nancy Drew 39]

ppl are mad at ankamius but not even for a good reason. they're mad at her because she scumreads me. that's not the issue. the issue is that she's willing to lie and twist things to support her case because she knows her case doesn't have solid enough ground. if she knows her case doesn't have solid enough ground and she doesn't think she can get me lynched off of reality and she knows she can't read me well... she really has no business going after me. i can handle being scumread fine, it just so happens that most of the people who scumread me on this site scumread me for incredibly dishonest reasons as a masquerade to hide the fact that they really just don't like the idea of scum me winning.

I think you and Ank are tvt.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I've had my heart broken once already because I waited too long. Time to stop being a coward.

Nancy, will you go to the dance with me?

Spoiler: Flowers!

I accept!

What a lovely bouquet.

[Nancy Drew 39]

ppl are mad at ankamius but not even for a good reason. they're mad at her because she scumreads me. that's not the issue. the issue is that she's willing to lie and twist things to support her case because she knows her case doesn't have solid enough ground. if she knows her case doesn't have solid enough ground and she doesn't think she can get me lynched off of reality and she knows she can't read me well... she really has no business going after me. i can handle being scumread fine, it just so happens that most of the people who scumread me on this site scumread me for incredibly dishonest reasons as a masquerade to hide the fact that they really just don't like the idea of scum me winning.

This is the single most annoying thing you've said yet if you are actually town.

I believe defending Nancy is something you would do as either alignment. I believe you would be expected to do that as town, and understand that enough to do it as scum.

Your reads are sketchy. Your scumreads are... slots that have very little to no impact on the game, and me, somebody who you have had no trouble ever seeing as town when I was town before.

You didn't take the path to the easiest win and when I pressured you about it, you did this ridiculous commentary about how my scumgame is not worth it instead of simply saying that your reads are not to where you are confident in them enough to commit to that. <--

THIS

would've been a town response and I would have backed off. Instead, you got incredibly defensive at pressure that wouldn't phase someone who genuinely thought they would easily win against me, so no shit I turned up the pressure.

And now the only thing I can think of with how you are playing right now is that your plan to pocket someone and ride that to endgame has failed and you are playing to give town as little as possible to get your buddies to endgame.

Your game here has had a

scumgame

approach to it and frankly, I would have much higher expectations of your towngame than to let me chain you down and destroy your spirit entirely regardless of my alignment, because if this is your towngame in the first place, what would you have done if I ended up flipping town after you death tunneled me for the entire first dance?

I really don't care if you leave at the start of the first dance, tbh for scum you that's probably smart. But for town you, I'm very disappointed that you wouldn't give me enough credit to believe that I don't make this level of push on people I don't have good reason to believe has a good chance of flipping scum, and if that one little push is going to break you, then you really shouldn't be playing mafia in the first place right now.

You're acting in the same way now that you accuse me of doing. Either put your back into the game and get back into the groove of it, replace out, or just do whatever that doesn't involve complaining about how shitty of a person I am, because that helps a grand total of nobody in any way.

Let’s not make this personal. See, this is why I objected to this pairing and I still don’t understand how Krazy could have ignored the obvious bad blood between you guys, when he suggested it.

RC/Taly would have been a much better match, for this reason.

Anyway, doubling down on TvT and a terrible pairing. Why anyone could thing you two were an optimal match, is beyond me.

Pairs ideally need to be able to correctly read each other and it’s clear that isn’t the case here.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I think the point of his early game setup spec was to set up scum being able to pocket their partners

And lo and behold... he pushed to do that himself for Taly

But I mindmelded with him on his RC case?

Who would you prefer Taly be paired with then, if not Krazy?

[Nancy Drew 39]

I don't understand why

Krazy

-scum would bring up 3+ strategies and weigh each of them out accordingly while being very forthcoming with how the town thought about it.

It seemed the most thoughtful approach of the setup, and I feel like scum would stick further to an agenda and a set plan, and control HOW people talked about the setup rather than give suggestions. 62 - 69 - 77 - 90 - 101 - 122

Plus, I haven't played with

Krazy

before, but our personalities mesh very well. I never felt like he was pocketing me, and he NEVER pushed this onto me.

1)

1474 - 1526 he veiled that he didn't expect me to immediately accept, it told me he asked NOT just because he wanted to pair with me... 1861 but this post implies that he didn't EXPECT me to accept, because he trusted his townread on me, and for me to NOT opportunistically jump at the first chance I get invited.

It told me that his townread of me was more genuine, rather than a strategy to get into a pair with a highly townread person.

2)

I wasn't even widely townread until around the 2000 post marks, I'd say, around the

S_S

came in was when people actively voiced their reads of me on a broad scale 2313 - 2491 - 2603/2604 - 2647

(and other posts that I'm not taking forever to look)

, and I felt that

Krazy

-scum would've waited for that interval to say he wanted to dance with me.

3)

Though he didn't, he made his thoughts clear to me early on in 880 - 1445 - 1518 - 1526 - 1864 - 2640 and from this point since, has worked with me as if any partner would, and has consistently checked up on my reads and thoughts of the game.

Yes,

Krazy

has put a LOT of energy focusing on a pairing with me, but I fail to see any scum-motivation, and working with him in a PT would help my view of the game better as opposed to multiple other gent options.

I think the point of his early game setup spec was to set up scum being able to pocket their partners

And lo and behold... he pushed to do that himself for Taly

This was my BIGGEST concern stated in the game, and I thought I made this very clear.

Please point out to me any fallacy in my logic - that I'm being misled or pocketed by

Krazy

. I want to hear you out because I thoroughly don't see it.

I don’t see why scum!Krazy towncases RC like he did but more importantly, if not Krazy, which gent does Ank have as an alternative for you, who is a better match than Krazy? Does Ank see Urist/DT as preferable matches? This is what’s got me legit confused.

[Nancy Drew 39]

My problem with Ank is that right before Taly is going to accept Krazy she says Krazy may be scum, and right after I accept Dr. Worm she says my reads are bad. Is like she's trying to set up WIFOM and future lynches.

Is Ank scumreading Worm? Since when?

And this is another reason I scumread Allo, he isn’t will to re-evaluate either Worm or my slot. Why is he so tunnelled? He seemed to be more willing to try to sort players last time, I think? I know I obvtownread him then.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I'm sorry

Ank

, but if

Krazy

pocketing me was a big concern

You shouldn't have paired with

RC

before we sorted out pairs with EVERYONE getting a chance to speak.

(Granted, this is not all on you, RC should've stuck to his original thought and waited a day or so before pairing.

Suicide-pairing should be the LAST type of pair made in this setup, not the SECOND.)

And while I'm being hard-nosed here

(apology about that,

this interaction is NOT personal at all

Ank

-

<3 <3 <3

)

, I'm taking

full

accountability of my reads and I have good reason to accept

Krazy

.

Okay Taly, you should no longer be paranoid about any obvtown reads on your slot.

Yeah, this pairing was horrible for town. You obviously need to be paired and and afaik, Ank hasn’t advocated you pairing with either DT or Urist, so with RC off the market now, I don’t know what she expects you to do here.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Actually, just for full disclosure on my problems with yesterday

(And to be fair here)

RC

should've spoken to ME in the thread about

Krazy

OR whenever he became 100% confident with

Ank

scum and thought pairing to leave her first dance was a VIABLE idea.

(Since Nancy was in the thread at the time, and RC townreads me/Her the most out of the Ladies)

This is why town NEEDS communication and teamwork in this game more than anything.

But you know... shoulda'coulda'woulda'

I'm done bitching. I'm gonna play.

(I'm liking this game a lot, tbh.)

Firebringer

, are we cool now?

I was completely shocked that he gave her an invitation in the first place. I was sure if he didn’t pick me, he’d pick you. However RC was right about him and me having a better shot at making it to endgame, because I’m still being scumread, so less chance we’d be NK’d.

Also Ank pairing with him out of concern for being lynched by him, makes less sense that giving him the power to leave her. I think this pairing was poorly thought out and emotionally based. This is why I believed it was better for me to leave pre-dance, than to be in a potentially emotionally volatile pairing.

But we need at least two obvtown pairings that won’t combust, so I think ideally both of us should have been paired with RC/Dan to ensure a town win. What’s the most important thing is, that you and whomever you pair up with, be able to accurately read each other.

That said, you probably shouldn’t rush into the pairing just yet. You’ve been playing extremely rationally, which others would be wise to follow suit.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I don't understand why Krazy-scum would bring up 3+ strategies and weigh each of them out accordingly while being very forthcoming with how the town thought about it.

Well, there's an obvious answer, which is "to look town."

Perhaps an even more blunt answer is "that's what he would do as town."

Besides, I saw you in Echo Bay Grits. It's a totally valid scum strategy to play the town leader and try to direct the use of mechanics.

Who are you implying is playing “town leader” here? Certainly not Taly?

This is probably irrelevant but IC!RC in Witches’ Ball, was self-appointed town leader but of course, being mod-confirmed IC, did kind of gave him that right but true, I have seen scum employ that strategy as well.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I don't see a scenario where scum would *want* a scum/scum pairing unless they were forced into it.

Yes because unless all 3 scum make the F2, I don’t see how they’d win.

[Nancy Drew 39]

The only pairing that could want s/s is RC going against the expected and fucking us over 'cause he has enough scum equity sitewise to do something like that and win. But that's not the case 'cause he's town so don't bother to think about that.

Yeah, no way are Ank and RC ever distancing here.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I have nothing to say to her. Only you, Ank, and fb are townreads.

Brie, PB, and GE are null-reads;

i wasn't really sure about the order.

Okay looks like people are pairing. I better hurry up. I know Taly won't pair with me, so

I'm going with my second highest townread unpaired lady

.

TheBrie, dance with me?

Brie, you can do better. This is desperate.

Depending on who Taly chooses, one of Krazy/DT/Urist, I think?

[Nancy Drew 39]

S_S

, do you believe

Krazy+Me

is scum/town or even scum/scum?

Statistically speaking it's probably not scum-scum. Krazy doesn't seem easy to read so I don't really think I'm qualified to read there.

Better yet, if you believe

Krazy

IS pocketing me, then how do you think pairs should go?

I'm fine with you pairing with Krazy as long as you think you'd eventually be able to see through his pocketing, because by definition as long as he is alive you will also be alive to catch him and leave on him.

If you wouldn't feel comfortable reading him, there don't seem to be any other townread gentlemen left. Probably pick one that you at least have a decent idea is town and think you can read pretty well, and then regardless of what other people say if you end up townreading him you won't be lynched.

Who do YOU want to pair with?

First of all, not someone who's overtly scumreading me, for instance even if Allo offered I'd refuse because if town he'd probably just leave immediately.

However, I do want to pair with someone who is a pretty easy lynch (though not necessarily widely scumread), because that seems to be how my slot is treated. (I still have the feeling that this is mostly because I'm the only replacement... discrimination ) That way, if we do end up getting mislynched at least two question marks will be removed at once, and if the person I pick turns out to be scum we get to see scum squirm to try to keep us alive for as long as possible.

I don't see a scenario where scum would *want* a scum/scum pairing unless they were forced into it.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. If two scum are confident in their ability to make it far, a scum-scum pairing allows scum to win with a town-town pairing still alive, which could be a huge boon.

@S_S, you've been in the game a fair bit now that I think you should have been able to form some reads based on what you've seen so far. You don't have to be explicitly detailed or super confident, I just want to hear your thoughts on the players who've made the most impression on you. Your ISO is a lot of fluff, useless questioning, and a little bit of setup spec. I need to see something more concrete.

Sure. Bear in mind that my reads are still nebulous. I can make them look concrete, but don't expect me to stick to them.
Townreads are, in playerlist order, RC, Allo, Worm, Vedith, Ank, Taly.
Nulltowns are Moment, Thomas, Pink.

1371 is a post I randomly came across while looking through stuff. Noting it here because it is the source of both my Allo and my Vedith townreads.

I think it’s ideal to have as many slots paired up as possible - particularly with this mechanic. It was different in Witches’ Ball, where neither scum nor bad town, had the opportunity to yololynch. The best scenario for town, is for all 8 ladies to be paired up, so the coin mechanic in the wrong hands, doesn’t wind up costing us the game.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I accept!

What a lovely bouquet.

omg yay!

uh I mean *stoic nod*

Let's do this

I think it’s done now.

[Nancy Drew 39]

The only reason I'm not accepting

Krazy

RIGHT NOW

is because I want to give

Ank

a fair hearing... even though I strongly doubt my view will change.

Also, I want

Krazy

to be present when I do it but that's not a requirement.

I think that’s wise.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I'm really happy for Nancy and Dann

<3 And I’m happy for you and Worm. You two make a cute couple.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I think that post only comes from Allo if he actually is desperate, which he could still be as scum-- but I also think he'd be more likely to hide it.

Especially if, as you're saying, he might be putting on an act, it'd be weoyto abruptly drop the act and show his genuine fear.

This makes sense. I guess I just find the progression from frustration that people are yolo-pairing and repeated assertions that people should wait as long as possible to pair, to suddenly asking a null read to dance without really interacting with her or doing anything else to be very jarring.

You're right though, it could be town desperation too, and that's how I read Vedith's early game play as well. I guess the difference is Vedith was honest with his desperation from the start.

This whole pre-dance mechanic is kind of stressful. Last go round, I had a solid offer in McQueen, so I really didn’t feel it so much.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I want Gamma paired and I have no idea which gent would work for her given she's clearly been struggling to keep up/engage with the game. I'm not sure if that means we should pair her with someone quiet who is also working on catchups like moment, or someone that might help her keep track of what's going on... like... idk Pvt?

My tonal townreads on Gamma can be wrong though, but I'm still feeling pretty decent about her this game albeit off a low sample size of posts.

The men get the voting power from the ladies based on coinage, so the 5,6,7 coin ladies need to choose wisely, so they don’t pair with a scum gent who can yolomislynch.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Tbh Taly I think there's not much to do about it by this point

I really just want you to be aware that he could be trying to play the long game here, which involves the scumteam predominantly pocketing their partners of choice.

FTR if RC is legitimately scum here, I would be far more suspicious of Krazy than I already am since my presence would be the biggest danger for him and it would make RC's overall play with this make perfect sense.

Why does scum!RC pair up with you over me/Taly?

[Nancy Drew 39]

I expect the scumteam to have me as null in this game, specially after pairing with dr worm who, despite being townread now, it's easy to "change their mind" about him and mislynch us. Guess what fuckos: not gonna happen

Yea I'm going to be defending this pair. Extremely wary of people's scum reads on Dr Worm and the quality of those reads

Keep an eye on how people treat Moment and TheBrie too. I'd bet money on both of them being town.

I can maybe see Brie but why Moment? I’m still null on her.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Who are you implying is playing “town leader” here? Certainly not Taly?

Krazy. I'm comparing his play to scum-Taly's in a previous game.

Oh okay, that makes more sense.

[Nancy Drew 39]

So Ank, your meta on Gamma isn't too bad, but if you even remember Ircher's game, I correctly made the argument that she is *typically more engaged as scum*.

That being said, I have seen Gamma bring some strong reasoning as town and I have seen Gamma flake out as scum. Generally her mood has a lot more to do with gamestate/team than it does her alignment. So I'm inclined to call that NAI.

I think it's more useful to analyze her based on her relevant thoughts about the game in question and the quality of those thoughts--and you are welcome to scumcase those

but let me look at her iso and see if I can remember what I liked

I initially townread her. It’s more of a null for me at this point. I’vd noticed that a scumtell for her, is to be very self-referential, which I haven’t seen here so far but I know that activity reads are frequently misleading in general, so I’m leery of putting too much stock in that.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I don't see a scenario where scum would *want* a scum/scum pairing unless they were forced into it.

Yes because unless all 3 scum make the F2, I don’t see how they’d win.

Here's my question to you Nancy: what is scum doing to ensure they can get to endgame?

Plotting mislynches, I’d assume. Isn’t that what scum usually does?

[Nancy Drew 39]

By the way, now that I'm paired I can freely claim my coinage: I'm the 5 coin lady

you gave dr worm 5 coins? oh fuck no oh god

Worm isn’t going to yololynch anyone. C’mon.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I have 4 coins if it helps

That’s what I had last time.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Here's my question to you Nancy: what is scum doing to ensure they can get to endgame?

Yea this is what I'm really worried about concerning the current state of teh game. The bottom people just aren't... doing enough. Which as town they should be trying to prove their towniness but also as scum they should be trying even harder to prove their towniness. So it makes me uneasy that there's a lot of players just going with the flow.

you gave dr worm 5 coins? oh fuck no oh god

Can you answer my question about what gent you'd leave behind, Allo?

Also, what is the basis of your Dr Worm scum read? Is it just his posting style?

Yeah, the apathy is the most frustrating part of this game.

[Nancy Drew 39]

you gave dr worm 5 coins? oh fuck no oh god

I'm slightly warming up to this slot going early regardless of alignment

Yeah, I’m not even even convinced he’s scum anymore but Worm is about the least likely gent to yololynch, so this reaction seems unwarranted.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Yea I'm going to be defending this pair. Extremely wary of people's scum reads on Dr Worm and the quality of those reads

So Nancy, one thing I want from you is evaluating as the game goes on whether Dann is "too right about everything"

I feel like I just like his reads too much and it makes me nervous

I'm not shading, I'm just saying keep sorting as the flips develop

I still like him more than the other gents

I don’t know if he’s “too right about everything” or not but I really like his thought processes. He seems to be actively engaged, continually evaluating and flexible about reading the gamestate. Do you disagree?

But I still need the PT, to be really confident like I am on Ank/Taly.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Here's my question to you Nancy: what is scum doing to ensure they can get to endgame?

Yea this is what I'm really worried about concerning the current state of teh game. The bottom people just aren't... doing enough. Which as town they should be trying to prove their towniness but also as scum they should be trying even harder to prove their towniness. So it makes me uneasy that there's a lot of players just going with the flow.

you gave dr worm 5 coins? oh fuck no oh god

Can you answer my question about what gent you'd leave behind, Allo?

Also, what is the basis of your Dr Worm scum read? Is it just his posting style?

Are you seeing how I'm approaching the game now

There's no obvious plan the scum have for this game if you take the game at face value, and that's a sign that there's either trickery going on or the scumteam is just doomed from the start.

Has anyone played in this kind of setup, when scum actually won, because I remember from Witches’ Ball, before I replaced in, that the scumteam were blatantly obvious, due to LLD scum theater with Fire/Short. It was so obviously fake, I don’t know how it took town as long as it did to bust them. I never would have subbed into Short slot but I wanted to play so badly, I just told FG, to sub me in at the first available opportunity.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Townreads are, in playerlist order, RC, Allo, Worm, Vedith, Ank, Taly.

Also, I thought you were scum reading Taly. But maybe I misunderstood something.

I was nullreading Taly. But I townread Ank and she seems to have a pretty strong grasp on Taly's meta.

When you want to sort me without relying on someone else's meta, lmk.

^And to be clear, this is not "suspicion" I'm casting, I'm being truthful.

Taly any progress on bottom two ladies/bottom three gents? Given a few people listed Allo as their top fos, and he has offered a dance to Brie, do you feel Allo should be paired?

I'm not feeling strong enough on anyone being 100% ruled out, especially early-phase scumreads.

And I don't have strong scumreads, so what value is me giving bottom 2 ladies and bottom 3 gents?

I have more bottom gents than bottom ladies, though.

Tbh Taly I think there's not much to do about it by this point

I really just want you to be aware that he could be trying to play the long game here, which involves the scumteam predominantly pocketing their partners of choice.

FTR if RC is legitimately scum here, I would be far more suspicious of Krazy than I already am since my presence would be the biggest danger for him and it would make RC's overall play with this make perfect sense.

*shrug* RC

is town to me.

I have nothing to say to her. Only you, Ank, and fb are townreads.

Brie, PB, and GE are null-reads;

i wasn't really sure about the order.

Okay looks like people are pairing. I better hurry up. I know Taly won't pair with me, so

I'm going with my second highest townread unpaired lady

.

TheBrie, dance with me?

Brie, you can do better. This is desperate.

Depending on who Taly chooses, one of Krazy/DT/Urist, I think?

I'm literally seconds away from accepting

Krazy

, do you think it's too early?

No but is Ank supposed to make some case yet or did I miss that?

I think you should trust your gut instincts and go with that.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Go ahead Taly

I'm pretty much tapped out of the game now

You and RC both.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I'm really happy for Nancy and Dann

<3 And I’m happy for you and Worm. You two make a cute couple.

Love wins. I feel like George Harrison and you being Eric Clapton

So Dann is Patti Boyd (not an expert on this)?

[Nancy Drew 39]

I expect the scumteam to have me as null in this game, specially after pairing with dr worm who, despite being townread now, it's easy to "change their mind" about him and mislynch us. Guess what fuckos: not gonna happen

Yea I'm going to be defending this pair. Extremely wary of people's scum reads on Dr Worm and the quality of those reads

Keep an eye on how people treat Moment and TheBrie too. I'd bet money on both of them being town.

I can maybe see Brie but why Moment? I’m still null on her.

don't think anything I can say on that will matter

I doubt moment is making it very far regardless

Whatever my read on Moment, she doesn’t strike me as a yololyncher but ideally I’l like 8 couples in the first dance, due to the coin mechanic.

[Nancy Drew 39]

When you want to sort me without relying on someone else's meta, lmk.

Do you think her meta argument is inaccurate?

He feels a lot more like the one town Taly I played with years ago than the over the top scum Taly that I strongly believe he would have opened with like Echo Bay Grits and Labyrinth

The difference is very jarring and its a lot easier to see the genuineness in what he's posting when he plays this way.

I don't see a scenario where scum would *want* a scum/scum pairing unless they were forced into it.

Yes because unless all 3 scum make the F2, I don’t see how they’d win.

Here's my question to you Nancy: what is scum doing to ensure they can get to endgame?

Plotting mislynches, I’d assume. Isn’t that what scum usually does?

does that matter if

there's two all-town pairings that will reach endgame

before everyone else

Two?

[Nancy Drew 39]

When you want to sort me without relying on someone else's meta, lmk.

Do you think her meta argument is inaccurate?

He feels a lot more like the one town Taly I played with years ago than the over the top scum Taly that I strongly believe he would have opened with like Echo Bay Grits and Labyrinth

The difference is very jarring and its a lot easier to see the genuineness in what he's posting when he plays this way.

No, it's actually VERY accurate. I can be very difficult to sort and sometimes misleading with metadives for people who have little experience with me.

But I'm more predictable after awhile.

However, I DO like people to use in-game examples to townread me, and not rely on meta because that excuses problems that arise from my gameplay, and that's why I don't use meta often with people even when I have experience with them.

~

lmao,

Nancy

, it's taking you 50 fucking years to get to my 2381 I've been watching the thread.

This way, I don’t skip anything, like this game always has so many posts to catch up on, whenever I take a break from it.

[Nancy Drew 39]

is RC your alt?

Yeah, I was wondering.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Taly is actually a hydra of RC and Ankamius

true story

AlNan would have nothing on them.

[Nancy Drew 39]

@Allo,

which gent would you choose to leave behind?

well vedith, worm and rc are my top scumreads but they are all paired. So i guess you, because you're the top unpaired scumgent.

He’s not unpaired any longer and how is he still your “top unpaired

scum

gent”?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Go ahead Taly

I'm pretty much tapped out of the game now

You and RC both.

I think I've done everything I can

rest is up to you guys, gl

Both of you just giving up, is really bad for town.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I'm really happy for Nancy and Dann

<3 And I’m happy for you and Worm. You two make a cute couple.

Love wins. I feel like George Harrison and you being Eric Clapton

So Dann is Patti Boyd (not an expert on this)?

Exactly! Also known as Layla

Unlike Krazy, I choose to use spoiler tags. <3

Spoiler:

[Nancy Drew 39]

When you want to sort me without relying on someone else's meta, lmk.

Do you think her meta argument is inaccurate?

He feels a lot more like the one town Taly I played with years ago than the over the top scum Taly that I strongly believe he would have opened with like Echo Bay Grits and Labyrinth

The difference is very jarring and its a lot easier to see the genuineness in what he's posting when he plays this way.

I don't see a scenario where scum would *want* a scum/scum pairing unless they were forced into it.

Yes because unless all 3 scum make the F2, I don’t see how they’d win.

Here's my question to you Nancy: what is scum doing to ensure they can get to endgame?

Plotting mislynches, I’d assume. Isn’t that what scum usually does?

does that matter if

there's two all-town pairings that will reach endgame

before everyone else

Two?

start second dance with 2 pairings that are all town

scorched earth everybody else

gg

Oh yeah, well that’s kind of what happened in Witches’ Ball, scum obviously killed IC!RC and obvtown Sakura, leaving Chibi/Brian to endgame it.

[Nancy Drew 39]

You know that sig quote does not make me feel better about you lol

Why do you care if you're not townreading me. You answered something I didn't ask

i literally just told you why i care.

And I literally just told you that your answer is not what I asked. If you're not townreading me, pairing with someone you're scumreading me should be good from your perspective.

i still care about who gets a lot of coins. It doesn't matter whether you're scum or not, the problem is that worm has 5 coins.

@Allo,

at what point did I move from your top town read to a scum read? And why?

you're not a scumread, you're a nullread. All my scumreads are paired though.

Does that mean, I’m no longer a scumread?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Go ahead Taly

I'm pretty much tapped out of the game now

You and RC both.

I think I've done everything I can

rest is up to you guys, gl

Both of you just giving up, is really bad for town.

I'm not actually giving up

I just don't think I have much more to give without seeing flips, and that's going to be impossible

Yeah, which is precisely why you and RC should have never paired up. :/

[Nancy Drew 39]

Yeah, which is precisely why you and RC should have never paired up. :/

would you rather us bitch at each other for the entire first dance and completely derail the game?

I don’t thnk I’m doing that at all?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Yeah, which is precisely why you and RC should have never paired up. :/

would you rather us bitch at each other for the entire first dance and completely derail the game?

I don’t thnk I’m doing that at all?

not you

RC and me

Oh sorry, I get your point. But it’s still a shame because if you guys weren’t deathtunneled on each other, it would have really benefited the game but you probably both agree with that.

[Nancy Drew 39]

RC and I

Spoiler:

[Nancy Drew 39]

Yeah, which is precisely why you and RC should have never paired up. :/

would you rather us bitch at each other for the entire first dance and completely derail the game?

I don’t thnk I’m doing that at all?

not you

RC and me

Oh sorry, I get your point. But it’s still a shame because if you guys weren’t deathtunneled on each other, it would have really benefited the game but you probably both agree with that.

do we both agree with that lol

don't think ankamius has any regrets about her choices

I had this long paragraph typed up and then I realized, there is nothing really to be gained by dwelling on it. I meant that I’m sure that both of you would ideally prefer to spend the game sorting other slots. I understand that it’s difficult not react when you feel you’re being tunneled but obviously, I’m the last person to be giving advice on that, since I responded worse than either of you.

It’s so ironic, because if you both could see what I see, you both might even be great friends but you can’t, so that’s never happening.

Spoiler:

I had an abysmal interaction with Pink Ball in MBoS, now he’s slowly becoming one of my favourite people on this site. And this is from someone who called me a “fucking imbecile”, no less. But now I definitely hope we can become friends and even hydra at some point.

Cerb OTOH, is rightly still in the doghouse, as far as I’m concerned. I do have standards, after all.

[Nancy Drew 39]

If Allo flips scum, the simplest way to explain his flubbing is to say that he initially put his buddy Dannflor as town and then his team later decided that Allo should distance from Dann, and he did so very awkwardly.

Oh ok I get your point, good catch.

But Dann is town tho

I think it’s a tossup which one of Allo/SS, has the most unusual reads.

People always tend to jump to of X is pushing on Y, then X and Y must be linked. Tywin thought me and Zito were scum partners in Necromancer for this reason, when we were actually both town. I’m not picking up SvS vibes from their interactions.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I'm back to being OK with

Allo

being left behind for multiple of his recent posts, but I'm curious about

TheBrie's

read of him if she's willing.

But until we have more pairs, I'm not 100% on this yet. Also making note of 3062 for later reference.

I also want

Vedith

to explain if his read on

Allo

has changed at all, and why/why not.

*Check if I miss something or have something incorrect*

Firebringer+Vedith=8 Coins
Taly+Krazy=7 Coins
Gamma Emerald+?=6 Coins
Dr. Worm+Pinkball=5 Coins
Ankamius+RC=4 Coins
Nancy+Dannflor=? Coins (don't out unless you'd like)

TheBrie and S_S are the only other lady's unpaired aside from GE.

I suggest regardless of reads, all ladies should be paired for as many potential town as possible.

2.


So, we’re missing 3 and single coin lady.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Oh right Pvt isn't paired yet

Tricky questions

who is more town out of moment and Pvt

who is more town out of gamma and brie

Right now, I trust Urist more with Gamma’s six coins and why not Brie/DT?

Didn’t SS say, he wanted to pair with Moment?

But again, I think it should be primarily up the individuals. We don’t need any more suicide pairings in this game.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Oh right Pvt isn't paired yet

Tricky questions

who is more town out of moment and Pvt

who is more town out of gamma and brie

Right now, I trust Urist more with Gamma’s six coins and why not Brie/DT?

Didn’t SS say, he wanted to pair with Moment?

But again, I think it should be primarily up the individuals. We don’t need any more suicide pairings in this game.

So, my pairing preference was by # of coins but rn, I think Brie is townier than Gamma.

[Nancy Drew 39]

If Allo flips scum, the simplest way to explain his flubbing is to say that he initially put his buddy Dannflor as town and then his team later decided that Allo should distance from Dann, and he did so very awkwardly.

Oh ok I get your point, good catch.

But Dann is town tho

If anything, this would imply that Allo is town. With whatever degree of confidence we accept the premises that (a) if Allo is scum, then Dann is scum and (b) Dann is town, we must accept the conclusion that (c) Allo is town with the same degree of confidence.

Probably not more than, like, 60% or 70%, depending on how confident you are in (b). But I don't know if Allo is the best choice to be left behind.

Also I have this nasty feeling that I'm going to be the last lady unpaired and I'm going to have to choose who dies.

The problem with this game, is so many lurkers and that makes it difficult to move the game forward.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Errrr why would Dann being town make Allo town? That correlation sounds more wacky

Yeah, I don’t get how either are linked, short of them both scumreading each other.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Please stop.

Funny that this is probably the towniest post Moment made in my mind lol

and it's still basically NAI

Yeah, I don’t understand the strong Moment townreads, we hardly have any content to really have a correct read on her. She’s still a hard nullread at this point for me. We need Gamma, Moment and DT to all post more.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Weren't people townreading DT

I'm a little bit surprised I'm not seeing more pushback here already

what ever happened with that

first no one can give me a straight answer on why he's town and now no one will defend him from being listed as a bottom pairing?

In terms of content, I have DT and Urist about equal with Urist being slightly higher but, yeah, I suppose I could possibly be biased by high activity rates. I wasn’t impressed with Moment’s entrance but that could change. in terms of content, we have Urist/DT/Moment, in that order and I need more to correctly sort Gamma/DT and especially Moment.

[Nancy Drew 39]

@Mod, Nancy+Dann couple became a thing at 2928

Just to make sure it was seen; since it wasn't listed in the pair list.

And PB + Worm.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I guess the towniness of bottom pairings is kinda a question

I still have no idea how serious RC is about leaving, and I have no idea what firebringer will do

I'm more discussing pairings in the scenario where we actually vote on people after the first flip, but I don't even know if that will happen

We could do a soft vote for how many people would vote to lynch SS *assuming allo flips town*

If Allo is excluded and flips red then we play out dance 1 and discuss

If Allo flips town I would like to know before pre-dance ends whether the town would like to flip SS immediately or not

Should we be trying to speed lynch SS to prevent RC from leaving or do we have a reason to wait to see whether RC leaves or not?

Then they will still leave second dance anyway and I don’t think we should “speedlynch” anyone.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Like I honestly kinda don't know what to do with multiple pairings trying to leave

I don't know whether I should be literally trying to force RC to stay to second dance or not or how that would help

If he's suiciding anyway is it better to just let him do that? I townlean both sides of that pairing still so this is kinda a messy situation

hmm

That’s what I’m saying, I don’t see them not leaving. so I oppose speedlynching, since it won’t affect the outcome anyway.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I don't know whether I should be literally trying to force RC to stay to second dance or not or how that would help

you're wasting your time

it's optimal to wait until second dance to suicide but I'm 100% certain he's deadest on suiciding the moment first dance begins and nothing you say will change that

Yeah, I wish that wasn’t the case but speedlynching to force him to stay, is never. a good solution. If it would change the outcome, \_0_/ but there’s no reason to think it would.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I guess Firebringer was mostly just threatening Vedith to keep his act together rather than actually saying he would leave so there's that at least

So assuming Fire was just yanking his chain then it's just RC+Ank that's threatening to leave which then leaves Vedith with a potential speed hammer?

Should I be doing

"If Allo, RC, and Ank all flip town, do we lynch SS"? I feel like that's a stupid question but it's one we should answer maybe?

I’d be extremely shocked if Ank/RC is anything but tvt.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Errrr why would Dann being town make Allo town? That correlation sounds more wacky

If we were to assume that the statement "if Allo is scum, then Dann is scum" is true, and we also assume that "Dann is town" is true, then by contraposition, we could conclude that "Allo is town" is also true.

Therefore, the more confident we are in those two premises, the more confident we can be in the conclusion.

Or, to use words instead of logic: it's not likely that scum-Allo flubs his read like that on a townie. Since you're confident Dann is town, it means that Allo is less likely scum for it.

That's not how logic works. If p is "Dann Is scum" and q is "Allo is scum", then:
P Q p-->q
T T T
T F F
F T T
F F T

So, Dann is scum implies Allo is scum is a true statement if both are indeed scum. If Dann is scum and Allo isn't, then the statement is false. But if Dann is town, Allo could be either town or scum, since the premise implied that Dann was scum, and he isn't. So the promise isn't broken if Dann is town, thus making Allo's alignment a mistery regarding Dann.

+1

Yea honestly, I'm just waiting for the lower people to post more. I'm hoping more interactions there will be revealing

+1

[Nancy Drew 39]

RC is PLAYING MIND HURT GAMES with THREAT of LEAVING!! DR WORM doens"t BELEIVE!!

Worm doesn’t know RC, if you think he’s bluffing.

[Nancy Drew 39]

The bold was broken, so I wouldn't have noticed him asking if no one had commented. I'm not going. I feel like Allo or I would end up leaving. I couldn't trust him, and I feel as if he might be townreading me as a pocketing attempt. Just cause I'm surprised to be someone's second highest town lady. though he said unpaired, so I suppose it's reasonable. And it does feel like being desperate to dance with someone.

Allo, if you really want to dance with me, you'll have to talk to me first. Give me flowers, or explain why you town and scum read certain people. And be more careful when referring to players.

Ok, so, Brie, how are you today? I'm kind of offended, to be honest. To think I would walk out on a lady? Nonsense! Seriously, though if I were scum who was trying to pocket you, why would I walk out on you? One scum life is more valuable than a town life; it wouldn't be worth it for a scum to die just to take out a townie, unless it was a very powerful townie, which, given your post count, I assume you aren't.

Anyway, not to be rude, but Taly and the three paired ladies are all higher on my townlist then you. You're null-town at the moment.

Spoiler: Also these are for you

5, there are 5 paired ladies: Fire, Ank, PB, me and Taly.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Anything noteworthy happen recently?

I won’t have time to do a full catchup until later.

In my brief skim, I saw Krazy threaten to leave or something, is this for real? Because he shouldn’t have paired up with the most widely obvtown read lady in the game, in that case.

[Nancy Drew 39]

at this point I'm more worried about TheBrie scum than moment scum in that pairing by far, not that I'm wolfreading her I don't think

In hindsight I think most of the pairings were wrong and TheBrie was actually my optimal partner, not sure why I wrote her off

I don’t understand this.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Scum gentlemen are among {Krazy, RC, Allo, DT}.
Scum ladies among {GE, PB}.

Decided just now to leave Urist out becaues of 3283.

Why Krazy, RC?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Moment could you go into your townreads a bit? I have a reasonably strong townread on you and I think town needs to be able to figure that out too

I believe I've justified most of them, not that anyone reads anything I post (as evidenced by PB).

PvtUrist I decided to sort as town for his insistence that he should be lynched soon. I believe this to be genuine, and something that comes from town.

Dr Worm I townread for a similar reason, which I pointed out here.

Ok I reread Worm's iso now that I'm like 60% sure of his main and I'm still not sure but I'm not sure I entirely want him in my bottom two, and if I'm redoing my bottom males entirely then I should be thinking about DT anyway.

If Worm doesn't want to survive intermission I am not strongly opposed to him suicide bombing a scum lady although Alisae will probably say I'm scum for mentioning it--but I'm just being real here, Dance 2 will probably be hectic AF and my impression right now is that he doesn't want to replace out but can't keep up with the game while still giving informed reads.

@Worm is that what's going on with that last post?

NO

DR WORM knows it"s NOT BEST FOR TOWN if WORM is INNOCENT CHILI!! So WORM DIES before INTERMISSONS..

Ouch.

Sad that such a towny thought has to come from someone very likely to die.

It's an unbelievably town motivated thought.

Vedith and Ankamius I explained in 2082.

Firebringer I believe I sorted as town when reading through the early game. Probably in part for his frustration with Nancy, although I'm certain there were other reasons. I have it written down that his 310 was towny, don't remember what it was.

Dannflor is admittedly a weak townread, but I believe it came from 2552.

I scumread Taly when reading through the early game and honestly don't remember why I sorted him away as town, although I don't doubt myself at the moment.

TheBrie for reasons.

Nancy I just explained.

I believe that's all of them.

Wrt the bolded, how is Taly ever scum here?

[Nancy Drew 39]

taly/krazy

which side here are you calling scum?

If Taly is scum here, I’m nominating him for a scummie.

[Nancy Drew 39]

same reason last game i powerlynched to townreads because sakura hana wanted it. and iddn't really push firebringers lynch even though i knew he was scum. it just doesn't matter in the end.

honestly RC

we're both widely townread enough that worst case, we would be either intermission killed or dead at 3 pairs left

there's more than enough leeway to push all the much more scummy pairs out first

why does it matter if we're dead at 3 pairs left
we don't give the town any more equity by being alive or dead at 3 pairs left if we're not an endgame pair

because I think both of us being there would be a lot better for town morale if we push to intermission at least, even at the worst case I think we'd have a good shot at weeding out a deepwolf later if needed

Yes, please convince RC of this.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I'll leave first dance if RC promises to never sign up for another game where I'm already in the player list.

Yeah, that was it.



No, you’re not suiciding with bleeding obvtown Taly!

Wtf are you thinking here?

Why don’t we just hand scum the win?

[Nancy Drew 39]

I probably should have tossed that into scream into the void but whatever

I just don't want Ank thinking that me being pissed here means I actually have a stronger townread of RC when I don't, and my uncertainty just makes me even more angry.

And I don't want Nancy coming in and thanking me for trying to talk RC out when that's not even what I was doing

Honestly, you’re seem to be making things worse. Sorry.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Hi, I can't sleep, so I'm back, but I got my break. I'll also be busy all day tomorrow so wanted to get one last check in before I'm gone for potentially 24 hours. (also relatively busy most of the week)

Spoiler: pvt and dt

So, PvT is town. I don't see any other explanation.

Right now I'm more worried about what I can learn from the game, rather than what I can do for town here. Regardless of Dann's actual allignment, I've royally screwed myself with my tunnel in a place where I'm not feeling the ability to push it (first time for this to appear), as well as the ability to read the game without tilt or bias.

I'd avocate for a Dann flip, but it's much more for my selfish, ego related reasons than what's potentially best for the game.

Just haven't been knowing how to interact or progress with the game for the past few days.

This alone makes me feel somewhat better. It circles back to what was said before about how scum has basically no motivation to put themselves in this position or 1v1 me at this stage of the game. This post outlines that... and it's genuine. I really believe that Pvt really believes I am scum, and is unable to see past that to the the rest of the game.

@Pvt

, I want to ask you, if you pretend I flip town, who do you think is scum? It's kinda okay if you can't answer that though, I don't expect you to. I fully believe you just can't see past me in this game. While unfortunate, it definitely makes you town.

didnt read Pvt's iso at all, but in general

scums do not want to be too dense with their behavior in the thread. when confronted, they are likely to cooperate, unless they are lika a pretty experienced scum if you know what i mean i think when i checked his post count it wasn't too many posts

idk if there are people better at reading him and they read him town and if his 'attitude' is a main reason you scum read him, chances are, he's just a stubborn town who is just being a stick up his butt because they cant handle being 'wrongly' scum read (cough cough nancy cough cough)

This too, simultaneously makes me feel good about both Thomas and PvT. I'll admit I've been very frustrated with not being able to engage with Pvt, but this logic of "scums do not want to be too dense with their behavior" is absolutely correct. And is much more sense than whatever emotions I was feeling.

As far as DT, I really like the logic here and it's consistent with other good towny thoughts he's had:

it's just gut tone read. they seem to have "i dont care about what others think" and expresses opinion in a bold way

of course, scums also try to manipulate this kinda tone, but the genuinity is different slightly, imo, when they are scum and town

scums are afraid to admit this and publicly announce it

I like this sort of logic a lot and I think reads based on it is a lot more likely to be driven from a town place than not. It's not surface level and it's the type of logic I mindmeld with a lot. Additionally, I think DT is town for similar reasons I strongly townread Taly. A Town vs. Town 1v1 between me and PvT is good for scum. Straight up. Pvt likely gets lynched at some point and enough paranoia is sewn about me that maybe I can get lynched later. Town vs. Town 1v1s are ALWAYS good for scum and that's what I strongly believe this is now. DT stepping in to try and explain why my read on PvT may be wrong and not stoking the flames is a very town motivated move.

While I'm catching up on the most recent pages, I can also say Pvt is town for the same reasons, for this:

I'm feeling one/both of you are missing eachothers points here

Not as strong as what Taly or DT did of course, but combined with all the other stuff, also makes me feel good about Pvt. Anyways, moving on.

Pvt's case on me is... I mean, I believe he thinks it means I'm scum. And I'll admit my entrance was not the best or leastways not the most alignment indicative. But, Pvt, I do see you conf biasing and I think you're just straight up avoiding my later play? By conf biasing I mean the way you interpret my #211 to be complaining about the state of the game when I'm responding to being called out for my NAI mech talk (which is fair) by pointing out that no one has done much of anything AI. This is fluffy game. More egregious is your interpretation of my #339? You're trying to imply I flipflopped on my Nancy read but where are you getting that I implied I didn't scumread Nancy in my #339? I very clearly did at that point.

I think if you continued to read my play throughout the game with an unbiased eye you would come to different conclusions too. I have a very transparent playstyle where I do go into several reads and explain why I have them. And I would hope people that think I'm scummy would point out where that is in my thought processes, if things seem contrived or if my logic is agenda driven. I've been actively trying to advance this game for a while, and my NAI entrance doesn't change that.

However, I don't expect to change your mind. I don't think I will, unfortunately. You've changed mine though, you're very town. + Pink Ball's meta case finally makes sense to me.

====================

Spoiler: reads ig

Okay, one last reads list and stuff as I gather my thoughts since I'll be busy this coming week and my activity will probably be lower until the pre-dance deadline. I don't think posting full lists is as dangerous anymore considering we have the main pairings figured out and the others are coming together.

The reads in the individual lines aren't in any particualar order

Confident Town: Taly, Nancy, Pvturist
Town: DoubtingThomas, Krazy, Ankamius, RadiantCowbells, Dr Worm, Pink Ball
Prolly Town: Firebringer, Vedith, TheBrie
=====
Null: Gamma, Moment
=====
maybe scum?: Something_Smart (this is a volatile read)
Prolly Scum: Allomancer

Actually, writing it at, my pool for scum is pretty low. But I'm okay with that, I feel like I have good reasons to town read the people I town read. The gamestate is still problematic because I think things would feel different if scum were actually in trouble, but maybe I'm wrong. Almost wrote out several paragraphs on that topic but realized it was useless to talk about now and we should probably just cross that bridge when we come to it. Firebringer is maybe my least sure town read, but I think that's only because it's been a while since I've seen him do anything and I've mostly been trusting people that can read him/his style well.

After working through my PvT read logically, I really really don't see how he can be scum beyond some WIFOM arguments. But even the WIFOM arguments don't make sense.

So with that, my personal ideal pairs would probably be TheBrie/Doubting_Thomas or TheBrie/Pvturist as a strong town pair. Than whichever gent of those two doesn't go with Brie should go with the most town out of Gamma/Moment/Something_Smart. I'm including S_S because my read on him keeps oscillating every time I look at his ISO and I think he could potentially be a town read depending on what he does going forward. The remaining two can pair, that last one will probably be the first lynch.

Still don't think Allo should progress

I don’t think scum!you ever townreads Urist here.

Wrt to SS, I’m actually having trouble parsing their game from either a scum or town perspective. I think we should be careful about possibly mislynching his slot.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Krazy

, we're not forcing anything until it's discussed between both us and the public thread.

A reason you have my coins is because you seemed less quick to vote based on how you strategize and approach this game/setup.

Don't let emotions rule you. ^_^

I would feel better if you could keep the coins, tbh. Krazy should stop playing emotionally.

[Nancy Drew 39]

OK actually, that 2 second pity part is over.

Krazy

- maintain homestasis and chill

<3 <3 <3

OK I need to prepare for Math tutoring session in 45 minutes so bye

*final thought; now is a

SHITTY

time to discuss which pairings are endgame-material because that tells scum how to play *

+1

[Nancy Drew 39]

I would, however, like to know in advance who SS is pairing with. I think he's town, but if people are going to lynch him anyways I would like him paired with a scummier Gent.

If you think

S_S

is town, then why are you OK with a lynch there?

also I'm skimming right now, but I'm a bit sad that people are continuing to say

Me+Krazy

is a bad pairing when I gave multiple opportunities for several people to case a reason, AND an alternative. I also outlined my reasoning for the pairing, and I don't think people have really engaged with that as much as they should, if they feel this doubtful.

I don't think people are being fair here.

Tbf the situation changed pretty drastically in the last 12 or so hours

Like wtf got into Krazy?

His recent posts are kind of freaking me out a bit.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I would, however, like to know in advance who SS is pairing with. I think he's town, but if people are going to lynch him anyways I would like him paired with a scummier Gent.

If you think

S_S

is town, then why are you OK with a lynch there?

also I'm skimming right now, but I'm a bit sad that people are continuing to say

Me+Krazy

is a bad pairing when I gave multiple opportunities for several people to case a reason, AND an alternative. I also outlined my reasoning for the pairing, and I don't think people have really engaged with that as much as they should, if they feel this doubtful.

I don't think people are being fair here.

Tbf the situation changed pretty drastically in the last 12 or so hours

If it's this drastic coincidentally after the pair is made then I already distrust it, and am hoping you can fill me in because Ive been asleep or doing college work for the majority of these hours.

Casting uncertainty on pairs right now presents many problems for town over something that cannot be changed or dealt with this game phase.

Now, do you agree with my assessment that DT and TheBrie are most likely town of their pools?

Why DT over moment? Yeah, starting to think Ank may have been right. But then again, I’ve never seen moment scum. @moment, do you have a scumgame, I could checkout? Thanks.