large normal 218: tweets (bong)

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Rhyming is scummy.

copycat. Still, at least you don't confuse me with a chicken.

VOTE: Stan1ley

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Bit of a prodge, sorry. I'll be back tonight probably - I'll have more time over the next few days. Bujaber's posts are screaming town to me though.

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I don't understand this Jbril wagon. But Bujaber, Flippynips, and Creature are town. I'm getting real bad feels from both eyes and Vedith. For eyes, 176 feels wrong to me. 255 from Flippynipps is accuracte I think - that was such a forced interaction. And Vedith has just been trolling, but it's not in a way which actually gets reactions, which I think is what Vedith would be trying to do as town.

VOTE: Vedith

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Yes we do.

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In the game that we do have (I understand that you replaced in so it was later), you were not being entirely serious, but looking back at it I think you were trying to get reactions (FWIW I wrongly scumread you there and caused your lynch, but here I feel I’m right), with that scumslip duff etc. Here you are not doing that.

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There’s trolling and there’s trolling. Your trolling there was actually productive (or trying to be anyway). Here there is no room for proper reactions other than people attacking you just for trolling.

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Trolling by itself is a scummy behaviour (post RVS). But you have a meta for it, so how you troll is important.

viewtopic.php?p=10703797#p10703797 and a couple other posts like it

I felt under genuine pressure when you were posting this stuff (and it's not like I was scum). It was deliberately provocative, but it had something to do with the game. Here it doesn't.

Btw, your interaction with eyes was also scummy, which you seem to have failed to mention.

Pedit: It wasn't productive because it didn't work (arguably that sequence of events put the game beyond reach). But as I saw it (after seeing your flip) you were trying to get real reactions that are relevant to the game. That has townie motivation, irrespective of whether it works for the game it is done in.

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So if meta is my reason for being Scum, explain my Scum meta.

It's a reason, not the only reason. I have not looked at your scum games yet (shock horror!), but I am trying to understand the motivation for what you are saying. It is not the town motivation that I now see you had in our previous game (which btw I can make a much better judgement about than some random scum game of yours that I wasn't in).

Trolling by itself is a scummy behaviour (post RVS). But you have a meta for it, so how you troll is important.

But you're argument is I'm scummy before of meta, not because I am trolling.
So if meta is my reason for being Scum, explain my Scum meta.

So me saying the mod got Scum count wrong is a serious troll?

I think it was fairly obvious that neither of us had looked at that rule, or thought that it existed. However, you obviously knew that 3 scum was normal, so it was not unreasonable for me to say that (as town or scum). However, trying to push this gets some reactions from me, which I think proved rather useful in you townreading me (the only read you got right btw, which I think is largely because you had that direct interaction with me).

It was never deliberately proactive.
But if you had pressure with this, just wait until I tunnel you this game until one of us are dead.

Well maybe I feel pressure in a different way to you then. I really don't like how you're just now in tunnel mode now though. This may actually be a playstyle thing more than anything, but I feel it's much better to be conversational.

In what way do I fail to mention about me and eyes? You are bringing the case that I'm Scum because I trolled in a game where I was town. Why would I randomly say "but my interaction with eyes"? I'm not sure what your point is with that?
And for it being scummy. I'm okay with that part.

By not mentioning it?

I believe that you troll every game, regardless of alignment. However, you're no Clemency, and no matter what you say there is some motivation behind your posts (whether conscious or not) that is from your alignment. Trying to figure out how that plays into how you troll is what I'm doing.

You're entire argument is you deciding what mind set I had when posting in that game to this game when it's not different at all.

Umm.. yes? That's kind of what this game is about. I'm not sure I could play any other way.

Pedit: I'm not a chicken.

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Oh shit that post got warped. I'll try to fix it.

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So if meta is my reason for being Scum, explain my Scum meta.

It's a reason, not the only reason. I have not looked at your scum games yet (shock horror!), but I am trying to understand the motivation for what you are saying. It is not the town motivation that I now see you had in our previous game (which btw I can make a much better judgement about than some random scum game of yours that I wasn't in).

Trolling by itself is a scummy behaviour (post RVS). But you have a meta for it, so how you troll is important.

But you're argument is I'm scummy before of meta, not because I am trolling.
So if meta is my reason for being Scum, explain my Scum meta.

So me saying the mod got Scum count wrong is a serious troll?

I think it was fairly obvious that neither of us had looked at that rule, or thought that it existed. However, you obviously knew that 3 scum was normal, so it was not unreasonable for me to say that (as town or scum). However, trying to push this gets some reactions from me, which I think proved rather useful in you townreading me (the only read you got right btw, which I think is largely because you had that direct interaction with me).

It was never deliberately proactive.
But if you had pressure with this, just wait until I tunnel you this game until one of us are dead.

Well maybe I feel pressure in a different way to you then. I really don't like how you're just now in tunnel mode now though. This may actually be a playstyle thing more than anything, but I feel it's much better to be conversational.

In what way do I fail to mention about me and eyes? You are bringing the case that I'm Scum because I trolled in a game where I was town. Why would I randomly say "but my interaction with eyes"? I'm not sure what your point is with that?
And for it being scummy. I'm okay with that part.

By not mentioning it?

I believe that you troll every game, regardless of alignment. However, you're no Clemency, and no matter what you say there is some motivation behind your posts (whether conscious or not) that is from your alignment. Trying to figure out how that plays into how you troll is what I'm doing.

You're entire argument is you deciding what mind set I had when posting in that game to this game when it's not different at all.

Umm.. yes? That's kind of what this game is about. I'm not sure I could play any other way.

Pedit: I'm not a chicken.

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Back peddling here, eh?

No.

So I'm Scum because I am trolling here and because I troll with a reason in other games. This is correct?

Yes. Your trolling here was designed to slow the game down (and to some extend it worked. Obviously I didn't help by not being active until now but hard to decipher posts make it harder).

So first of about the post you quoted. It was on the opening rules so why would i suspect people don't know it?

Does anyone actually read the rules and then remember that tiny bit of information?

Again you are trying to tell me what my reasons were for posting it.

But it helped you sort me, no? Whether you mean to or not (though I strongly suspect you mean to) how you troll will be different depending on if you are town or scum. You couldn't control that if you wanted to.

How can you believe that I troll every game with 1 game played with me?

Nobody blinks an eye when you troll. You do, don't you? If that's not the case link me a recent game where you haven't.

Yes me trolling is what you are Scum reading me for. Surely by your argument it's NAI and the reasons for Scum reading me are this game alone.
And what is me not mentioning me and eyes posting which happened like 2 pages ago have to do with anything? There would be no reason for me to randomly mention it as either align.

-That, and the eyes interaction (as I said before). Also now your convenient arguments which try to paint what I said in a different light.
-It's not NAI, as I feel very sure that scum you and town you troll differently. We are not entirely in control of this, so regardless of whether you intend to just troll what actually happens in different. It's human nature. Perhaps I was wrong about you having a very clear goal with your trolling in that game, but there is still motivation, whether you are aware of it or not.
-Because it was the first thing I said I scumread you for in the post where I voted you?

You are here to decide my mind side and motivations for this game alone.

But comparing you mindset and motivations to a previous game I was quite invested in is useful. I don't necessarily need another reference point (which seems to be your whole defense), because this game is not black and white. If you could link to a scum game of yours, however, I would appreciate it. Probably wont be able to look at it right now, but later.

Pedit: I know it's dense, but if you try to parse what I'm saying it might make a lot more sense.

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This is why I don't tend to do wall posts. Maybe next time I don't post for a while I should make 10 posts saying exactly the same thing as I made in that one post.

Sash, what makes me look shifty to you?

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What's so scummy about Jibril?

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Sasha just has this awkward style, not sure the soft reasoning is so AI. Want to know what he actually finds shifty though.

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Eyes though I agree.

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Come on Rooster, don't quit the meta read on me now.
I'm not surprised you're trying to weasel out of it though now you're shown as Scum.

How am I weasling out of it? I think we both said our piece, more wall posting about that would clog up the thread.

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In the p-edit of 331 I understand you say he's made town stuff

In the game that we were talking about, he was town but was trolling a bit, but I think in a different way to here. Sorry if that was a bit confusing.

In 337 you say you have looked into meta, but only town side, not when he's scum, which I find weird as hell.

I only have one game with him - he was town there. I've not put the effort in to looking at his scum games, but in any case I feel it is much more likely to be accurate to compare with games that you were in. As I said, you don't necessarily need a scum reference point also.

I feel like you are trying to give him a bad rep over his trolling and I associate this as scum. I don't see him trolling as scummy though.
Not many things, I know, more a big gut feeling, that's why I called you shifty instead of public enemy #1.
Of you two, Vedith is a bit more credible to me right now.

I feel like this comes from town Sasha. I am trying to analyse the way in which he was trolling, and also his latests posts and interactions with eyes weren't so good.

What do you think about Vedith's defence, and how eyes just waltzed in and announced 346 on some faulty af logic?

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Bujaber, what do you think about eyes?

I'm down for eyes also.

VOTE: Eyes

I believe that's 6/9 votes.

Pedit: Of course it could be stronger. It's what he's thinking when he's trolling - 'say something vaguely relevant which might spark a discussion' vs 'spew post.' The former is a town mindset the latter is a scum mindset. Some people (a.k.a Clemency) manage to not have any difference between this as town or scum, but since I have seen him be vaguely productive before so I do not believe that to be the case.

That case by itself is weak, I know. But I also don't like that initial interaction with eyes, and the binary choices he keeps presenting to people (35 8, 344) are also not good, although obviously that was after my initial argument (spoiler: I'm not always completely convinced by my own arguments before I make them)

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Eyes posted before anyone else, which to me almost feels like trying to steer the direction in favour of Vedith (you may get some sheep, and then is spirals).

The connection thing has a high degree of WIFOM. IDK what gives the more info.

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I think eyes is town.

Maybe I'm being too simple in my analysis and the way I generate reads? I don't know. We will see.

I also think this is true. I think what happened was this - scum Vedith sees that I'm making a case on him. The Jbril wagon is baseless (like can somebody actually tell me why?) so it will dissipate. The case on Vedith is reasonably strong (IMHO), so it is likely a wagon will build on Vedith. Therefore, he needs to redirect to someone as otherwise he'll be under a lot of pressure. Making it a 1v1 is an obvious choice then, as I have stuck my neck out a little bit so it's probably more likely that he can wagon me.

VOTE: Vedith

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I don’t know who this rooster person is.

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1. Jibril slipped that she knew the alignment of joges/amor. (Matter of interpretation, so you may agree or disagree)
2. Jibril is posting 0 reasoning for any reads, is not actively pushing for my lynch, is not exposing any train of thought that can be judged/analyzed. (Hiding)
3. Has shown no interest in engaging me directly. Has ignored my question to her 3 times already.
4. Has not been commenting on game events, or leading wagons. Conveniently ignoring all of that to focus on her supposed tunnel.

Ah I've been waiting for this. Good reasons. Think Vedith is a bigger fish to fry though.

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Just checking in to remind everyone that Vedith is still scum. I feel Lycan is town from that post. I'll have a think about Creature - I was townreading him from his early posts but lately it's just been active lurking.

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Why is vedith scum though? Also can't just throw out a read on vedith without mentioning Eyes. How do you feel about Eyes?

I said this already, but I felt like eyes' reaction to his wagon was good. I'm also not sure I like how quickly that wagon moved (nor your push for a claim, but I'm not sure that comes from scum). Lycan summed up the case on Vedith scum associations quite well I thought (530) which strengthens my convictions. Stanley scum is also possible. I can't be bothered writing up everything on Vedith again.

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I can roll with this.

VOTE: Amor

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Yeah I’ve been ignoring this for a while, but you’re like definitely scum.

VOTE: Stan1ey

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Also makes me think Vedith is town.

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Well ok seems like Stanley wont happen. Tbh the Stanley stuff probably means that Vedith is more likely scum, partners with Stanley. I'm not sure what I was thinking with Vedith town exactly.

VOTE: Vedith

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You’re scum trying to shift a wagon away from Vedith, while simultaneously suspecting him in case the wagon goes through.

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I’m not sure about Jbril. I’m just not sure the vegetable stuff is AI yet and I don’t really want to policy lynch that.

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But getting a mislynch is better than pushing for Vedith being lynched today, no? It’s almost an automatic thing that scum do I think.

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Yes.

But I was saying that from POV of you scum with Vedith.

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VOTE: Jbril

I hesitate to do this, but we're running out of time. I believe that's L-2.

Jbrill, you should claim.

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Well I suck at mafia. Flip makes me pretty sure eyes is town.

VOTE: Stan1ey

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Buj, it was some opportunism from Stanley. I think I explained it a little anyway.

V/LA until Monday

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Just to say that I’m here. Will catch up later.

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Sorry. There’s so many pages to catch up on. I will try my best.

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I was skimming the last page and noticed a few people mentioned me.

I overloaded on games before going on a trip. I’ve sorted out most of it, but I still need to do a sesh to sort out this one.

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In fact, I'll even offer myself you and when I flip town you can be the turbo Lynch.

I never like it when people try to sacrifice themselves.

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I thought Stanley made this post but I was wrong. Still curious which flip made eyes town and why exactly?

Vedith - I was only getting eyes from associatives, and since Vedith flipped town there was none, and it was probably town trying to work together.

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That is objectively a very scummy thing to post

As if such a thing exists...

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Because the gambit helps scum more than town I'm inclined to believe it comes from scum.

I think if he were PR you'd agree with me that he committed suicide, so let's say he's either VT or scum.

If VT, the obvious advantage is to bait the NK. No other advantage. You could say him trying to take himself out of the lynch pool helps increase the odds of lynching scum, but at the same time it increases the odds of lynching or exposing an actual TPR.

If scum, he is trying to avoid getting lynched, distracts the game thread by making the players discuss his claim, could potentially expose PRs who are less likely to believe him, or even try to lynch players who call him out on it.

As for the sorting, this engagement between us 3 is a good start, and also seeing your reactions to other wagons etc. I am less sure of my original assumption that one of you has to be scum. Without a joges flip that was a premature assumption to make.

This is town.

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Alright fair enough
VOTE: flippy
I still think youre mafia

You still think RCE is mafia? Then why change your vote?

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I see lots of talk but little production. You're all repeating the same arguments against each other and it boils down to "this is how I feel but I have no evidence" which isn't helping me much.

I even asked BuJ & Enigma questions and they didn't respond. Well, BuJ didn't and Enigma didn't post since.

I think I should have stayed in mini games because I suspect the larger numbers are confusing me but I am already here so I will try my best and if it doesn't work then I will refrain from joining large games in the future.

Eyes is also town.

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RCE talks a lot, but I am finding it hard to comprehend everything he says.

Me too.

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This game still keeps being uninteresting.

At least try when you're posting.

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I just remember in my reread after the flips that something felt a bit off in his posts .. i think it was something about the backflipping to/fro on vedith at the end of D1. haven't seen enough of his posts today though

I don't get why people think stuff like that is scummy.

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VOTE: RCE

This is still scum.

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VOTE: RCE

Haha this is going to come across badly for me I think but I don’t really care... I think RCE is town

What a shit post.

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Creature is the biggest wagon wtf he is town what are you guys doing

Fake rage.

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Creature is the biggest wagon wtf he is town what are you guys doing

Agreed.

I'd lynch anyone there.

That profii's suspicious on other merits seals the deal.

Who are you?

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VOTE: Rce not to hold the game hostage or anything but, pretty please?

This is also scum.

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3. Roster tunnelled me to death as town last game. I don't know if it's a fluke of a game or what but she was one of the top posters.

You were scum. I was right. Here you are town. I am also right.

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Why arent you voting me then

I am.

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I can think 2 people are mafia at the same time

Yes but you were never going to get a reaction out of flippy, whereas something was building on RCE. Town sticks there.

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Stan1ey and RCE are buddies.

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I just don't feel like creature is scum.

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succinct replaces joges.

Oh that was joges. Yeah you could be scum too.

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I'll get around to isoing and reading up after my shift. Initial thoughts are that Stanley is the most suspicious. Immediately points to the early voters without much to base it on. Calling out the number of scum on the wagon pings as weird too, possibly tmi. If Stanley is scum here I think it's probable there's a partner on the back end of the wagon.

This was well before Bujaber prodded further

Alright fair enough
VOTE: flippy
I still think youre mafia

VOTE: RCE

VOTE: Flippy

You're shading RCE a bit because you know he's scum, but you actually want flippy (mis)lynched.

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Flippy is not a good lynch. RCE is. Stan1ey is. Profil is also scum.

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VOTE: Profil

I’ve been wrong about everything this game. How depressing.

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I’ve kinda-sorta been following this explosion.

I think Profil has given up, so is almost certainly scum, kind of hoping that this wagon will dissipate.

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I wasn’t scum-reading profil for associatived.

The tone of your posts changed dramatically from earlier. I can’t quote and stuff rn but you were trying so much more earlier.

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Mmmmk. Why are we lynching RC?

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He's not profil.

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ok then who are Profii's scum buddies and why?

I don't know. I'm always wrong when I start looking for buddies before they flip. I imagine one or more of them would have deflected the initial wagon from profil.

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The problem is that there are 3 or 4 of you who are constantly posting, meaning everyone else is always trying to catchup. More balanced activity would result from that IMO. It's not good that Nero has 350 posts in this game.

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Yeah but the activity hasnt been low at all. It’s just that it gets lost among the sheer volume of posts that are being made. You can’t expect everyone to be constantly reading the thread, so when they wake up and see 8 new pages it’s a little bit intimidating.

There is a happy medium between activity and spamming.

Pedit: yeah but Nero that’s like the whole problem. It’s almost impossible not to be a lurksack in this game as the pages are happening so fast. This game isn’t that much larger than a mini yet it has way more pages than I would would expect from my experience by this stage (caveat is that this is my first large).

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Nobody ever explained the RCE Lynch as far as I can see.

Hop on Profil please. Ty.

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Is anything happening here?

No.

Vote Profil.

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Soz

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But they’re not really discussing him though? My impression was mostly that it was some large weird meta-argument so I ignored it.

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See this was my problem with all the posts. It looked to be going round in circles so I just glazed over it and obviously I got the wrong feeling.

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Meta is not null.

I just couldn’t parse those posts. Maybe it’s just a me problemz

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I didn’t see that. It actually makes sense, thank you.

Because I’ve felt such lethargy with this game. Maybe it’s because I keep being wrong. Fuck it.

VOTE: RCE

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VOTE: Profil

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We should massclaim. I have a tiny bit of information so I’d rather go later.

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Ok I think Creature is turning his town game on.

VOTE: RCE

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Nope. I’m not exaggerating when I say it’s a small bit of info.

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We’ve been going through pretty much all my scumreads and I’ve been wrong about each and every one of them so I think it’s time I went for someone else’s.

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Meh. It doesn’t mean that much since I’m out of shots anyway.

I’m N2/3 GS. Checked Stan1ey, obviously he died so I felt stupid. Then checked Creature, no gun. So Creature is about 80% clear.

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Mafia Doctor? Or is that not a thing?

Popcorn to RCE then.

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I’m shit, I know.

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Creature is conf town unless you think I’m scum.

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Oh wait he’s not. Whoever said that was wrong.

Still, I doubt he’s scum.

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Mafia doctor or traitor.

I but chances that these roles are in the game, and I happened to check the maf with them, are pretty low.

Either way, he’s not in the lynch pool for today.

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I apologise for my horrendous conduct this game. If this flips town, it’s Nero/Overki11/Succint/Bujaber.

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OK you think Overki11/Succint?

Any others? I think I'm just gonna have to sheep you tomorrow.

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I apologise for my horrendous conduct this game. If this flips town, it’s Nero/Overki11/Succint/Bujaber.

‘Blaming Others...’

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Look Nero I’ve been complete and utter shit this game, I understand that. But I think it might be because you’ve done s very good job of controlling this game.

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Well I can't believe I missed that!

UNVOTE: While I think about things.

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What did you miss?

Fake hammer.

Creature, who should I vote?

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So GS makes sense because its probably effectively a cop in this setup? That's what I thought upon reading that.

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Nero, who should I vote?

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VOTE: Insomnia

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I believe the post-'flip' stuff. Ughh.

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I trust Nero to be town because you trust Nero. I also don't really trust myself to be right. But I also think RCE is town for the fake hammer stuff.

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Weren't you just saying that Enigma is probably town because all the lurkers are town?

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Yeah I'm going senile. Ignore that.

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I could've sworn you said something like that.

Fuck it,

VOTE: RCEnigma

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I'd love to, but too much effort.

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Imma say that me/creature/buj is the townblock and we must lynch scum today.

Creature: I’ll assume that you’re the other mason. I take it there’s no other partner.

I think Nero was reasonably accurate with his reads and that’s why scum wanted him dead (a misfiring Nero would almost guarantee that we mislynch today I think). So I think scumteam is Insomnia/Lycan/Enigma and one other.

Buj : Obviously if you watched Nero out it.


Not gonna vote until everyone has posted.

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Insomnia what about Enigma?

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Creature is town because I got no gun. If I got screwed so badly that I checked scum creature and he happened to be the doctor I think they deserve to win. That’s not the case though.

Makes me want to lynch Insomnia first.

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I didn’t heck him last night. It was night before (this is how her got conf town Imo)

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I only have N2/3

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Yeah do I put townblock as Creature/Overki11/me/Buj

One out of eyes/succinct is town, but DK which. I’m kind of leaning towards succinct town and eyes scum.

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I could go with that also, but I’ve been feeling hard-scum more from Insomnia.

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Ok. Let’s wait to hear Buj claim any result also. Checking Nero might have made some sense to do (although you being conf town would make you more obvious).

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I didn’t - I only had 2 checks and used them both already.

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Yeah I’m an idiot. I didn’t understand that properly and I was thinking Creature was scummy.

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Sorry I’ve been busy today. Will talk more tomorrow.

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I basically agree with Creature. I'm kind of sick of waiting so

VOTE: Insomnia

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I scumread stan1ley. I scumread creature and did not pick up on the masons. Yes I'm an idiot, but it is what it is. At least I conftowned Creature/Overki11.

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Are you joking here?

This is why insomnia is scum.

Also I did not have a crumb from N2 because I checked dead so there was no point whatsoever is crumbing. Crumbing as a N2/3 GS without results is completely stupid.

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Did you hint anywhere you were a PR/gunsmith?

Nope.

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There’s 3 votes.

I could hammer...

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Oh yeah. Nvm. Not doing anything them.

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I mean you're more scummy than Enigma IMO, but I could go for this.

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If Enigma is scum one out of Buj/Insomnia is def town IMO.

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But I mean if eyes is scum it would need to be L-1 for a quick hammer is Buj/Insomnia are scum together, since hems eyeswithoutinternet at the moment.

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But probably no quickhammer because he’s scum.

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*Squeezes Buttocks*

VOTE: Enigma

[rosterfoster]

I’m gonna say that we’ve lost.

This game was a shitfest.

[rosterfoster]

Insomnia you were town :O

[rosterfoster]

So what Lycan/Buj/Eyes/Succint?

[rosterfoster]

No I’m the shittiest town in history.

[rosterfoster]

Ah well played. I probably shouldn’t have been reading you based on that game I caught you in.