large normal 218: tweets (bong)

[BuJaber]

Copping bujaber tonight VOTE: rosterfoster

Rhyming is scummy.

I'll take that as a compliment.

VOTE: Sashaddin
I see this name everywhere

[BuJaber]

Also I'm glad Persivul is not in this game.

That's gonna be my new entry is every game.
Man has about the same class as a 5 year old.

[BuJaber]

Shadd don't hate me sorry that could be interpretted as mean.

[BuJaber]

Vedith has the only town post this game, change my mind.

That's two opinions which one you want changed.

I think overkill has a town post

I don't understand Amor's joke

[BuJaber]

VOTE: Vedith

not RVS.

Thoughts on vedith now?

[BuJaber]

It's a useless question anyway.

Assume it's not RVS. The player will tell you if you're wrong. Determine if they're lying or not.

[BuJaber]

@Enigma - yes.. if you want me to react to your RVS vote don't make it look like an RVS vote. Also just on a personal level I'm not fully sure how you feel about me from last game, maybe you secretly don't like what I did. Liking someone who doesn't like you back is the worst. I want to figure you out some more.

Nero gets the "I'm smart" award.

[BuJaber]

other than a mechanical inno/guilty all reads are gut.

Other than this being a shit response I think nero is on to something with the joges stuff.

But then there's the jibril post.

I'm assuming amor v joges is not TvT and that jibril knows this.

[BuJaber]

Nero gets the "I'm smart" award.

Do you have a read on me?

I haven't seen your scum game ever but so far you're your annoying townie self.

It's just not being directed at me this time

[BuJaber]

But honestly I feel this way because I see your pov on joges so really my read on you kinda depends on how a few people flip.

I don't even know if I've ever been town in the same game as you before... I don't remember ever having to read you for real before.

[BuJaber]

VOTE: Vedith

not RVS.

Thoughts on vedith now?

noobtown/lynchbait. once he gets comfortable playing mafia im sure he will make an impact

Then why did you think he deserved a vote?

[BuJaber]

I feel like I don't want to vote Bujaber anymore but I also don't know if it's just because I agree about jibril.

That sounds awfully similar to what I just said about Nero

[BuJaber]

That assumes I think it's not TvT because of what Jibril said.


That's not true. I thought it wasn't TvT and then when I saw Jibril's post I was like "they know".

If it were town figuring out I'd expect them to show off but all they did was pick a side.

So yeah either defending joges because he's a buddy or distancing amor and pocketing joges.

Or like... well the last option would be hilarious, but all 3 are scum and they just exposed themselves already.

[BuJaber]

I wanted to see which of joges/amor should be voted but that makes a lot more sense.

VOTE: jibril

[BuJaber]

Why not vedith

VOTE: vedith

Pretty NAI entrance from eyes. Pretty easy to just pick any post and call it the only townie post in the game. At least when creature does it he displays effort in going through and commenting on multiple posts.

[BuJaber]

you do know that when nero suggested some conspiracy between vedith and rc to influence the thread with "don't townread jorges" instead of himself saying "don't townread jorges" right?

I don't understand this. How does he become part of the conspiracy if he is pointing out the conspiracy?

Seems like it would have the opposite effect.

[BuJaber]

Yes

But I'm more interested in why you're bringing up OK2 specifically.

[BuJaber]

The more other people post, the more I like Enigma. Hmm.

This is the most interesting post I've read on the site.

I thought I was pretty good with obscure logic but I can't make sense of this.

[BuJaber]

Seriously let's vote jibril guys. I trust the TMI tell.

[BuJaber]

Seriously let's vote jibril guys. I trust the TMI tell.

VOTE: Jibril

I forgot I changed my vote.

[BuJaber]

The more other people post, the more I like Enigma. Hmm.

This is the most interesting post I've read on the site.

I thought I was pretty good with obscure logic but I can't make sense of this.

If you tell me it's a compliment I'll explain it. It's not very complex tbh.

Well I'll need to know the explanation to see if it's compliment worthy or not.

But if it helps I'm always pleasantly surprised that something can make me go "wtf"

[BuJaber]

you said amor-joges was not TvT (which is really only based on one post by joges?) and that jibril knew it wasn't. nero wasn't saying "don't townread joges" he was calling out RC and vedith and suggested they were influencing people to literally "not townread joges".

Yes that is how I understood it. I'm not miunderstanding him then.

How does that affect the jibril - amor - joges triangle?
The behavior of rc and vedith could be spewing joges town, but it doesn't prove nor diprove that jibril knows joges' alignment.

[BuJaber]

Okay I will do my best to make this easy to understand so that lycan doesn't accuse me of misunderstanding nero.

Amor and joges had this back and forth mutual scumreading/voting thing going on. It didn't feel like TvT to me because I don't know it feels like it would have stopped earlier because it kinda seemed like some RVS joking around but then it actually kept going and each one seems genuinenly interested in lynching the other, but if it were TvT you'd expect to see more effort in trying to sort the other person or try to convince everyone else they're worth lynching.

Jibril's post was this outta nowhere vote on amor and backhanded defense of joges without explanation. It made me feel like they wanted people to focus on these two and encourage people to pick a side by doing it themselves.

If jibril is town and RVSing they would have said so when their post came into suspicion.

If jibril is town and seriously scumreading amor why are we still not getting any sort of reasoning on that or any attempt to push that wagon.

If jibril is scum and amor/joges are TvT why would jibril want more attention towards these two and risk prople coming to that conclusion and giving town two pseudo - ICs so early in the game??

So amor/joges is not TvT and jibril is scum.

Is jibril defending joges because of WIFOM and they actually want to distance themselves from amor? Or are they simply defending a buddy?
Considering there's daychat and jibril hasn't talked about either of them again I think they might have been told to not bring it up again, which makes me think it's most likely that it was a mistake to post that so joges is most likely the partner.

Now the nero thing is interesting because he noticed that RC and vedith were subtly turning people off from townreading joges. I thought that was a very astute observation. But what does that mean about nero/vedith/RC's alignment. Here there are many possibilities so it is best to reduce them by first sorting out jibril/joges/amor. If we know joges' alignment it should help. That's where lynching jibril helps. They're scum either defending joges to pocket them or because they're partners. I think her role could help us figure out the motivation behind that post with more accuracy. Like if she is a goon or scum PR for example. I would assume that a PR would not want to sacrifice themselves for a buddy so if jibril is PR joges is more likely to be town in that case.

[BuJaber]

My tl;dr is

So amor/joges is not TvT and jibril is scum.

You type reeeeallly fast.

I like your last paragraph about Nero.

I almost lost that post and was gonna rep out. Fuck typing that again. By some miracle when I was forced to log back in after time out I was able to go back to the reply page on my phone and the post was still there. So it took me longer than it actually looks.

[BuJaber]

@Nero - what makes it bad thinking? If you have a blanket policy to reject such trains of thought because it's not your style then that doesn't mean I'm wrong. What is bad about my thinking in this specifoc instance.

@overkill - way to throw out a buzzword that completely reverses the order of game events.

[BuJaber]

I reread joges and amor ISO and it's different from what I remember.

I probably should have done that before talking about them but I'm used to relying on my memory for most things.

It's still a little weird to me that joges was pushing this "either me or amor" thing and amor didn't react to him at all. It's weird that jibril went ahead and picked one of those to vote. And it's weird that RC and vedith were deterring people from townreading joges.

I still believe there is something to learn about joges' alignment from one or more flips in {jibril, RCE, vedith}.

Jibril has never explained their original post and vote, isn't pushing wagons or giving cases and has only scumread two people who are voting her. Why is there reluctance to push and pressure this slot? Is she confirmed to be a new player? If yes, do new players only roll town?

Vedith seems like he's trolling. Like 80% of his posts can't be serious. Not sure what to think of him yet. Either noob scum or bad town.

RCE seems townie by posts so far from what I know of him but after jibril he's the second person who seems to have a strong connection with joges here. I don't think if they were partners he'd bring that stuff up, even for WIFOM because it's simply too much attention to them both at a time when it was completely unnecessary. Those early game reads on joges are not likely to have any lasting effects. It is more likely to be a slip, so if joges is town here I think RCE would look very bad.

That answer your question nero?

[BuJaber]

Also @jibril - why did you vote for amor and say 'leave joges alone'?

@amor - why did you ignore joges, voting you and then trying to create a pseudo gladiate between the two of you?

[BuJaber]

. Those early game reads on joges are not likely to have any lasting effects. It is more likely to be a slip, so if joges is town here I think RCE would look very bad.

Uhhh what? How is scumleaning Joges a slip of anything? And by extension scumleaning the bullshitters that keep pushing this narrative about me trying to prevent reads. As opposed to getting people to explain and defend their reads.

I could see it as a slip that joges is town, and you were threatened by the townreads on him.

[BuJaber]

@nero - if he's scum, it's a good lynch, but if bad town why would it be good? (This is before he started arguing with roster. I want you to give an answer that is relevant to the game before that, and if anything changed after then mention that it changed)

I am pro-lynching slots that are meh if I think they will be good for info, but I'm not sure how many good associatives we have with vedith apart from he's not scum with roster.
Are sasha and eyes defending a buddy that obviously?

I'd rather wait for him to post more so I could sort him more confidently.

That said that was my position before he starting arguing with roster. I don't like him trying to make it between him and roster, and reading that made me feel like he was baiting people to get into it with him. He seems way more in control of himself than roster like he was planning to react to somebody voting him. Also jibril townreads him.
VOTE: vedith

@jibril - please respond to my question.

@amor - please respond to my question

[BuJaber]

Spoiler:

Trolling by itself is a scummy behaviour (post RVS). But you have a meta for it, so how you troll is important.

But you're argument is I'm scummy before of meta, not because I am trolling.
So if meta is my reason for being Scum, explain my Scum meta.

viewtopic.php?p=10703797#p10703797 and a couple other posts like it

So me saying the mod got Scum count wrong is a serious troll?

I'm on phone so I'm doing piece by piece and responding but let me hand you this here shiney shovel.

I felt under genuine pressure when you were posting this stuff (and it's not like I was scum). It was deliberately provocative, but it had something to do with the game. Here it doesn't.

It was never deliberately proactive.
But if you had pressure with this, just wait until I tunnel you this game until one of us are dead.

Btw, your interaction with eyes was also scummy, which you seem to have failed to mention.

Pedit: It wasn't productive because it didn't work (arguably that sequence of events put the game beyond reach). But as I saw it (after seeing your flip) you were trying to get real reactions that are relevant to the game. That has townie motivation, irrespective of whether it works for the game it is done in

In what way do I fail to mention about me and eyes? You are bringing the case that I'm Scum because I trolled in a game where I was town. Why would I randomly say "but my interaction with eyes"? I'm not sure what your point is with that?
And for it being scummy. I'm okay with that part.

I wasn't trying to get reacts I was trolling. You are comparing two same situations with different wordings and saying what my intentions were on both.
You're entire argument is you deciding what mind set I had when posting in that game to this game when it's not different at all.

VOTE: Rooster

Today is a lynch on me or you. If outside I'll make it unbearable to make sure it's one of us.

Vedith is town, buys. Move on.

Scum don't wait for a wagon to build on them to quit the leading wagon. In fact they do the opposite. They join their counterwagons.

I townread eyes based on this. It's wrong but it's the kind of wrong that comes from town.

He's a pretty useless player in general I think. I don't think the rest is particularly AI

[BuJaber]

Thanks for claiming scum.

If eyes is only scum if you are, we are only voting eyes if you flip scum.

He'd be under suspicion anyway because we wouldn't trust your townreads.

[BuJaber]

I think people didn't like that you forced a 1v1, but instead of treating the problem they're treating the symptom.

[BuJaber]

Yes you're right nobody should be voting eyes over you.

[BuJaber]

Like it makes sense for scum Eyes to sheep Vediths vote whatever his alignment so I don't see the logic here

You think so? From what I read vedith looked like he was catching more votes than roster. If vedith is town and eyes is scum why would he back the loser like that.

But if vedith is scum it would explain the vote from scum eyes.

Though either way I don't think eyes is scum. If they were partners vedith would not crucify eyes by making their connection deeper.

[BuJaber]

Eyes it's claim time

Imagine this is L-1

[BuJaber]

Ignore them Eyes.
I think there's 2 Scum on that wagon.

You mean you know

[BuJaber]

Eyes it's claim time

Imagine this is L-1

If you want a claim why don't you make it L-1?

Because I don't want to put a townread at L-1. But for claiming purposes it matters very little if it's L-1 or L-2, but some people really insist on waiting to L-1 and I don't know if eyes is one of those people or not so I said it just in case

[BuJaber]

Okay don't claim that should help keep you alive. Excellent choice

[BuJaber]

6 days left and the guy thinks the wagon has any hope of dissipating without a claim

[BuJaber]

It might.

How many games have you played here? People are going to push eyes regardless of reads just because he's near the lynch. If he waits too long to claim there'd be no time to lynch someone else. A claim has the potential to slow down and let people rethink.

[BuJaber]

This is my first ever game here

Lol ok

[BuJaber]

Okay let's draw lines in the sand. I drew the first line at 6 days. Who's next?

Let me ask another question. How many times in previous games have you unvoted from the leading wagon after a claim when the deadline was near? I've seen enough "let's lynch anyway there's no time" comments from town who start to doubt their read after a claim.

Nobody is budging, nobody is showing willingness to change to a new wagon. The only way to help eyes is to help them help thenselves.

Also @jibril - why did you vote for amor and say 'leave joges alone'?

So Jibril is an alt then. Knowingly and intentionally playing like scum, and still people encourage this behavior by townreading empty ISOs.

That's my third time asking Jibril. Convince me you didn't slip. If you're scum you've had enough time to come up with a plausible lie. I don't think new players make post 461. If anyone cared I'm pretty sure they could narrow down a list if possible mains based on that post alone. So you're capable of actually playing this game but are refusing to.

[BuJaber]

Roster the case on Jibril is not baseless:
1. Jibril slipped that she knew the alignment of joges/amor. (Matter of interpretation, so you may agree or disagree)
2. Jibril is posting 0 reasoning for any reads, is not actively pushing for my lynch, is not exposing any train of thought that can be judged/analyzed. (Hiding)
3. Has shown no interest in engaging me directly. Has ignored my question to her 3 times already.
4. Has not been commenting on game events, or leading wagons. Conveniently ignoring all of that to focus on her supposed tunnel.

And all of that while having a scumread and vote on the person who called her scum.

What does she think about eyes? Hapoy with that lynch? Then why not place a vote there? Not happy with that lynch? Then why not defend eyes?

[BuJaber]

Just checking in to remind everyone that Vedith is still scum. I feel Lycan is town from that post. I'll have a think about Creature - I was townreading him from his early posts but lately it's just been active lurking.

Thank you Rooster News Network.

Why is vedith scum though? Also can't just throw out a read on vedith without mentioning Eyes. How do you feel about Eyes?

Okay Nero if my memory serves me right you scumread me in both those games. You scumreading me might be +town at this point unless you're specifically using that to imitate your town game which would be weird and unnecessary. So talk to me about Jibril man... why am I wrong in your opinion?

[BuJaber]

I know it's spelled Roster, but that would have been less funny.

[BuJaber]

Well that's one way to save eyes.

[BuJaber]

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
would you be willing to get of a roster lynch today

I really don't get how people can't see Rooster as Scum here.
And id lynch elsewhere to prevent a no lynch yes.

Not a priority flip for me. Not nearly as much discussion regarding him as other slots like you, eyes, and Jibril.

[BuJaber]

Creature needs to post

Reading sasha's ISO he does seem overly cautious like he's double checking things or waiting for approval at every turn. But again not a priority flip for today.

Probably obvious by now but nero/RCE is not SvS.

[BuJaber]

Well you've convinced yourself he's scum. I haven't

[BuJaber]

Okay Profii is vedith's partner

[BuJaber]

Something we can agree on.
People I won't vote.

Eyes, Jibril, Nero, Lycan.

I can compromise else where as no lynch is tragic.

I can compromise on profii if his wagon gets bigger than yours. Bus him.

[BuJaber]

Creature needs to post

You need to town.

Your post about Persivul isn't enough anymore.

All in due time. Just keep watching.

[BuJaber]

This question asking behavior is present in both those sample games you linked, but with few exception you'll find him asking a question but ending his post with a statement as scum. In the Civ game, every other post up until his 55th post ended in a question. When he's scum it's less about asking and more about telling. 307 was a lot like that, ending only in a question to seek you out personally. The rhetorical questions not being aimed at Jibril are a vehicle to serve a point.

I also tried to question Jibril directly but I didn't get ang response.

[BuJaber]

If anything wouldn't you think Amor is his partner? Putting a yuck vote on a wagon is an OG tactic to derail it.

I don't think profii is hurting for a reason to exit the wagon because if he were scum with Vedith here, he couldn't be oblivious of wagonomics from earlier in the day. He went out of his way to put attention on it and I had been feeling the same way ever since the Jibril wagon took off with nobody all that interested in what I had to say.

Derails it sure but at the cost of getting attention to himself.
With Vedith's playstyle I'm not sure I'd want to sacrifice myself for him if we were partners. The way he plays will always land him some suspicion even when he is townread.

What profii did is present a case that looks very good on the surface but is circumstantial. It reads intent in Amor. Ie if Amor isn't motivated by what profii said he's motivated by the scumminess goes away. But what profii can accomplish with this is get a new wagon going while also looking like he's doing something.

[BuJaber]

VOTE: Jibril

[BuJaber]

VOTE: Jibril

Why the change of heart? From the VC above it seems you've been voting Vedith for a long time, and now that his wagon is taking off you switch to the counter wagon? Why?

FTR, if it came down to lynching between the two I'd probably lynch Jibril myself, not because I'm confident in them being scum, but because I'm confident Vedith is Town.

VOTE: Jibril

you're gonna need to explain that

Jibril was always my preferred lynch. The wagon seemed to go nowhere so I moved to vedith who's also scummy.

[BuJaber]

Jibril is a stronger scumread than vedith who is a stronger scumread than you since yours is dependent on a vedith scum flip.

But more importantly you've changed your vote several times now which tells me you're either trying to mess with associatives, or you're a confused townie.

Either way it's of little significance pre-flip.

[BuJaber]

We really should have lynched eyes man, like its so easy for scum to bus jibril guilt free

What would the difference be? If this is your position then you can have a solid pool of voters on the wagon to analyze for bussing and bag yourself two scum for the price of one.

[BuJaber]

Nero have you played with jibril before?

[BuJaber]

Well I suck at mafia. Flip makes me pretty sure eyes is town.

VOTE: Stan1ey

Why stanley in your opinion?

Nero have you played with jibril before?

no

Then what made you townread her?

It was really quite suspicious of you and then you tried to downplay it and sound unsure. It's just not the kind of confidence I usually see from you.

[BuJaber]

@Eyes - wouldn't a scumclaim make him less likely to be shot, not more?? Your theory regarding vedith doesn't make sense

[BuJaber]

follow up: you got your pet lynch and Vedith also fliped town so what does this say about me, Joges and RCE?

Vedith had nothing to do with the TMI tell.
If jibril flipped scum it would have ownspewed joges but she didn't.

I think you and RCE are opposite alignments. That was pretty clear from before.

I didn't think about the consequences of a jibril town flip though otherwise joges would have made more sense info-wise. But I thought jibril was scum and that meant joges had to be town.

And your ISO is the confusing part.. you said your townread was influenced by a false meta read but you haven't played with her.

What I'm concerned with is when I was one of only a few people willing to vote her you townread her but then when more people agreed and voted you began to change your mind. Did I get this part wrong also?

[BuJaber]

I'd like to hear ppl talk about RCE.

I just went through his iso. It gets better from the top down. I put him leaning town from reading it. At the beginning, he is rather lacking susbstance in his comments but he gets more pertinent and engaged near the end of the day. Was it a scum lurking and waiting for a late push?

He did that in overkill 2.

It's NAI behavior for RCE I think.

Give us your opinion on his actual opinions ignore the increase in participation.

[BuJaber]

And your ISO is the confusing part.. you said your townread was influenced by a false meta read but you haven't played with her.

What I'm concerned with is when I was one of only a few people willing to vote her you townread her but then when more people agreed and voted you began to change your mind. Did I get this part wrong also?

yes. Honestly, this is starting to look like feigned ignorance and not real ignorance. Just b/c you aren't in a game doesn't mean you can't read a game and meta off of it. I made a mistake, i thought I read a game of Jilbril where her play was VASTLY different and thus I town read her. When Stan pointed out that she had only played in that mini and I couldn't find the large that I thought was hers I noticed my mistake and retracted my town read. This was discussed yesterday. Stop asking about d1 stuff and move on or is there some reason you don't want to?

Because I want to know which of you / RCE is scum, and I feel it is necessary to double check everything. Have you never asked people questions to see if they change their story?

Frankly mislynching one of you two is worse than mislynching a random lurker. But I don't go after lurkers unless I feel confident they're scum or I feel their flip could be helpful to sort others.

[BuJaber]

Oh vedith is the one who was giving the 'don't townread joges' vibe along with RCE.

Ehh if he flipped scum I could say RCE probably wouldn't copy his partner and townread RCE for that. As it is that flip doesn't tell us much

[BuJaber]

Is being in my Poe that big of a deal? Hmm

no its the fact Joges isnt, and I didnt like a couple of your posts anyway

Why would I ever change my story? As scum, I'd know I could b/c it would elict too much scrutiny and as town I'd never lie in the first place. Are you just fishing for me t0 "slip" or something?

Can you go more into your thoughts on me and RCE besides "you guys aren't the same alignment but I don't want to mislynch there."?

Well I expect scum to try to stick to the same explanation as much as possible, while town just explain it however they remember it. Scum want to shut it down without alienating the asker in case of blowback.

Weirdly enough you managed to do a scummy thing and a townie thing in your response to me so this proved pretty useless.

I like RCE's wagon analysis so far and between him and overkill overkill looks pretty bad right now.

But day 1 I thought there were some weird associatives between him and joges, him and enigma.. I was at some point thinking you and him may be distancing each other day 1. I would think you both would be committed to that more though if that were the case. I mean RCE doesn't seem to even scumread you anymore, and you expanded your focus on other players later in the day.

I don't really know how to sort you every time I try something that works for me to sort others it doesn't work so well on you.

I get this vibe that you're trying to bully me into scumreading RCE though which bothers me

[BuJaber]

Enigma why roster.. he's been pretty townie I think.. I'm interested in what he has to say about stanley

[BuJaber]

Creature what's your read on profii

[BuJaber]

Wow the shade

You deserve it if you ask me

[BuJaber]

I get this vibe that you're trying to bully me into scumreading RCE though which bothers me

I mean you just said you think we are different alignments so you do think one of us is scum, yes? If it's me I'd like to hear why. I do think RCE is a bit scummy, yes and I could be right and I could be wrong. No one is really talking about him so I'm asking others opinions.

That has more to do with the positions you took on joges than anything.

I'm saying there's one scum between you and I dunno who, not there's one scum between you but I'm keeping it to myself.

Biggest thing I was scumreading was the jibril townread early on that you later changed your mind on. I know you feel like you've explained why, but it doesn't make it less scummy.

Also that RCE has been one of your biggest scumreads for a long time but it doesn't seem like you're trying hard enough to lynch him. I know you can be influential but it's like you're giving up with this playerlist, then trying again a little, then giving up etc.

On the plus side you're getting annoyed and shading me without really pushing me but not ignoring me which is more likely to come from town.

What do you think of RCE's wagon analysis?

[BuJaber]

Because joges getting townread by people got some weird attention.

We've got jibril, amor, vedith, RCE, joges and Nero in the middle of this attention. Weird interactions always contain scum, and already jibril and vedith flipped town, leaving the 4 of you.

You and vedith were on the "don't townread joges" side which means that read threatened you in some way and nero picked up on that even though it was subtle. He's either scum very interested in people's reads on joges or town sorting through the bs.

[BuJaber]

I'm sorry creature they're asking more important questions.

You aren't posting. Well more accurately you weren't posting enough for town you. And also you were on the wagon making you a candidate.

[BuJaber]

That's why you deserved enigma's shade.

Heck even nero forgot you were in the game

[BuJaber]

Why do you think Nero and I have to be different alignments in the first place?

comes across as setting up a chain of mislynches if BuJ is scum and you 2 are town

oh, nero flipped town? damn, must be you as scum then, oops again, wow I'm bad at this


etc.

You should read my previous games. You'd get a huge kick out of them.

[BuJaber]

What's my motivation here?

Shading people on the wagon while dispelling any TMI tell against you?

You don't see that that's a possible scum move?

[BuJaber]

Because joges getting townread by people got some weird attention.

We've got jibril, amor, vedith, RCE, joges and Nero in the middle of this attention. Weird interactions always contain scum, and already jibril and vedith flipped town, leaving the 4 of you.

You and vedith were on the "don't townread joges" side which means that read threatened you in some way and nero picked up on that even though it was subtle. He's either scum very interested in people's reads on joges or town sorting through the bs.

This is again blown out of proportion, "don't townread Joges" was only Neros interpretation of us questioning vague reads on Joges. It doesn't even represent my or Vedith's read on the slot at the time.

For the record I didn't scumread Joges initially but thought the townreads he was getting for very nai posting was weird, that has to do with the slots throwing meaningless reads out not Joges. Nero making it an issue is what made me think Joges could be scum with Nero. Jibrils posting made me reconsider on Joges but the read on Nero lingered.

Say you're scum and joges is your partner.

A bunch of people townread joges, you gain easy distancing points by arguing against it.

Say you're scum and joges is town

A bunch of people townread joges early on, that is bad for you because that's likely one less person you won't be able to lynch.

You see the scum-motivation?

[BuJaber]

Anyway I just noticed something and I want to lynch overkill. After the vedith kill, claiming to be pr unprompted like that has to be unbelievably dumb from a PR pov, so I'm pretty sure he's lying.

VOTE: overkill

[BuJaber]

So damned if I do damned if I don't basically?

Damned if you refuse to acknowledge our argument.

You're making it sound like your read on joges mattered when it didn't.

[BuJaber]

Clearly it wasn't taken as gospel if only nero and I seemed to care

[BuJaber]

What's my motivation here?

Shading people on the wagon while dispelling any TMI tell against you?

You don't see that that's a possible scum move?

Exactly how does me mistakenly reading someone as town and then noticing that there was no evidence to support my position shade anyone? I've heard that the key to successfully arguing is to never admit fault but I like to keep things honest. I could theoretically scum read someone for scum reading Jibril but I don't think I ever did that.

The shading would come post-flip of course.

So far you've just gone after rce though which would have probably happened no matter what jibril flipped.

[BuJaber]

An actual scumcase + vote? Only rce so far.

And yes so far you haven't been faulting people for the lynch so it isn't scummy, but I couldn't have known that day 1 now could I? Your behavior around jibril was scummy you're just not following through with it and I'm taking into consideration or else I'd have beeen voting you right off the bat

[BuJaber]

So you're basically saying that I'm scummy no matter what b/c I didn't jump at your TMI case and mistakenly town reading her and the only reason you aren't voting me is b/c I caught my mistake and didn't blame others for scum reading her. Correct?

Although, you do know that there practically has to be scum on the wagon unless you think that was an all town wagon and all the scum didn't vote her. So do I get scumread if I think ppl are scummy for scum reading her b/c that's kinda the impression I got. What about others?

No I am saying that now I can't use that tell to scumread you because you've made it invalid by not following through. So now there's no scum-motivation for your jibril townread.

I can scumread you for other things if I see them.

Others scumreading people on the wagon would be nai.

It's not you nero personally, it's just you happen to be the one townreading jibril for no reason

[BuJaber]

I was null reading her when I noticed my mistake but I also didn't feel like your TMI case was impressive.

Could you, as scum, throw shade at me for not wanting Jibril till the very end? What makes me more suspicious than other non-Jibril voters?

Fair question. I was focused on you too much. Not talking about or voting for jibril is far worse probably. And we might have one or two people who scumread her but didn't vote worth looking into.

I'll have to reread some ISOs because that requires finding what isn't there. In the meantime we do have the pool of actual voters and we can flip scum there for associatives.

[BuJaber]

How do I stop seeing posts from a user?

By one of you dying.

There's another way but it probably breaks a rule.

[BuJaber]

I'm not calling you scum, no.

How are you so sure?

@joges - it's because people don't follow through with the lynch all liars.

You have everyone site do that for 2 months or something and no townie will ever lie again.

Let's encourage shitty play. God knows the town win rate on here needs to be taken down a peg, am I right? :/

[BuJaber]

Buj, it was some opportunism from Stanley. I think I explained it a little anyway.

V/LA until Monday

Okay yeah.

He conveniently left himself out of the wagon analysis by townreading all late voters.

Which is such a weird statement to make. Scum would have seen it get closer to the hammer and are likely to join it. It's much harder to predict which wagon will get hammered and vote on it before it gets going.

[BuJaber]

I'm trying to sort you two until I am more sure.

In the meantime I am voting someone who is claiming to be something he's not. The mason claim was a followup. He started by claiming "town will lose if I get lynched". Which is horribly LAMIST, but more importantly has got to be a lie because no way a PR will actually expose themselves like that. Especially when he saw that vedith got killed.

And you're reading into my question to you. I wasn't accusing you of anything. I think I have more respect for your skill to seriously expect you to expose yourself with an obvious tell like that. All I was asking you is why you're sure he's town with a claim like that? Like what makes you think it's a town!overkill gambit, not a scum!overkill gambit. I'm tired of you interpretting everything I say as a shade.

[BuJaber]

Correct, it wasn't directed at you.

Could you explain how it's objectively scummy?
I understand you think it was a safe wagon to sit on, what is not clear is why you've decided that scum would not join the wagon later. There is an obvious motivation for you to do that as scum because then you wouldn't be included in your scum pool.

[BuJaber]

Like what makes you think it's a town!overkill gambit, not a scum!overkill gambit.

Why is it a scum gambit and not a town one? Going "oh he lied about his role, so he must be scum!" seems incredibly shallow. If both alignments gambit isn't it just null behavior? I do agree with you on the "horribly LAMIST" but eh, sometimes ppl are just full of themselves.

What would help you sort me and RCE?

Because the gambit helps scum more than town I'm inclined to believe it comes from scum.

I think if he were PR you'd agree with me that he committed suicide, so let's say he's either VT or scum.

If VT, the obvious advantage is to bait the NK. No other advantage. You could say him trying to take himself out of the lynch pool helps increase the odds of lynching scum, but at the same time it increases the odds of lynching or exposing an actual TPR.

If scum, he is trying to avoid getting lynched, distracts the game thread by making the players discuss his claim, could potentially expose PRs who are less likely to believe him, or even try to lynch players who call him out on it.

As for the sorting, this engagement between us 3 is a good start, and also seeing your reactions to other wagons etc. I am less sure of my original assumption that one of you has to be scum. Without a joges flip that was a premature assumption to make.

[BuJaber]

Buj, why on earth would someone EVER include themself in their scum pool??!?!

You're missing the point.

I don't expect you to literally put yourself in the lynch pool. What I'm saying is your wagon analysis happens to townread everyone who falls under the same category as you. If you're town that's just wrong. No reason for scum NOT to join the wagon later. If you're scum though it is a good way to make your own vote look townier.

[BuJaber]

Okay you made me second guess myself and I looked back and I can't find it anymore. I could have sworn you said scum joined the wagon early not late or something to that effect.

[BuJaber]

Nah stanley is right I read it wrong. He did say he townread x,y,z and scumread a,b,c before he mentioned anything about early voting vs late voting.

He might be at fault for confirmation bias (looking for reasons to solidify his scumread of emperor), but his VCA is not nearly as scummy as I thought it was.

[BuJaber]

Because the gambit helps scum more than town I'm inclined to believe it comes from scum.

Really?!?

He's a lol claimed mason. Firstly, he has to claim with someone and he can't claim with any town b/c they know he's lying. Secondly, even if he did claim with a scumbuddy town are going to start questioning why 2 masons are still alive and are

MORE

likely to get lynched. If he hard commits to a mason gambit with a scumbuddy he's not making it to endgame, bro.

I am less sure of my original assumption that one of you has to be scum.

Well, we all knew that as soon as I flipped town RCE would get power lynched, if he's not getting lynched today. So the way I see this through my blurry tunnel vision is you just backing away from ever voting RCE.

1. No actually you keep ignoring his first post. He said "town will lose if I get lynched". THAT part is the claim. Then to reduce the impact of that post he is claiming he's just joke claiming things, haha I'm a mason etc. The mason claim is there to make a point that he was joking. If the mason claim was the actual gambit I would agree with you but it wasn't.

2. You're assuming you will always get lynched first. You're assuming I want to flip you first. You're assuming I have to flip either of you. Besides after the thing with stanley I'm more inclined to vote RCE after overkill than you. Unlike you he's also been subtly trying to influence me and I guess that kind of pocketing me was working on me whereas you were and continue to be antagonistic and it's easier to read suspicion in that.


@eyes - I thought I mentioned you in my post but I didn't. One of the reasons why I'm less sure of 1 scum in RCE/nero was your question to me.

[BuJaber]

It IS way easier to townread the one that actually agrees with you sometimes than the person who disagreed with 98% of what I say.

[BuJaber]

So he's scum Ateing or town that's full of themselves. It's still null at best to me.

Sigh.. we'll agree to disagree.

I really don't understand how you can see that coming from town. It's suicidal as PR and really anti-town as VT.

[BuJaber]

Fine whatever. Maybe when people are discussing overkill we can bring it up again.

VOTE: RCEnigma

[BuJaber]

I asked creature for a reason, lycan. If I wanted to tell him how I read profii I would have.

[BuJaber]

If Nips was town I wouldn't be the counterwagon to him

Can you elaborate?

He's like the easiest mislynch in the game if town.

The fact sketchy players like Amor and Enigma are hopping into my wagon while no one else is jumping to the FlippyNips wagon sorta confirms Nips as scum.

Walk me through this one?

And why aren't you commenting on profii?

[BuJaber]

I know why you think it is

Share with the class?

[BuJaber]

Share with the class?

umm no. It's between Creature and I and sharing would break site rules so....

Ah sorry sorry looked like it was some old game you all shared

[BuJaber]

Why give him the whole of day 3 for free?

And this is my first game with lycan I wouldn't know

[BuJaber]

5 lurkers and RCE?

Also I don't think enigma is scum. He's barely been trying to push like an agenda or anything. Also I think he'd push me more as scum. That last game we were scum together was very long and is fresh in my mind. I suspect in his also. We'll catch on to each other quick

[BuJaber]

Why is he scum?

I think his PoE is shitty no scum would ever think that would fly. No way the scumteam would contain that much deadweight. There is no analysis, it doesn't seem to consider any VCA, and it comes at an opportune time because it includes both top wagon. If he were scum he practically checked every box for scumminess. I think if creature were to actually bother trying as scum he'd be a bit more self-conscious about that.

Thought I've never seen him post as scum, not even in our PT when we were scum together.

@lycan - thanks. The fact he mentioned profii before profii was really being mentioned by anyone bodes well for him.

[BuJaber]

And what do you hope to achieve with your self-vote?

[BuJaber]

Shitty wagon on someone in your scum pool

Okay dude

[BuJaber]

Why would that be any worse than if flippy flips town and RCE lived another day?

You are so confident on Nips that you won't even join a more popular wagon on someone you also scumread???

[BuJaber]

Are you worried Nips will suddenly acquire politician-levels of charm and brainwash us all into forgetting his lurking tomorrow?

[BuJaber]

So it's about not losing RCE if RCE is town?

Okay say you're wrong about Nips who's next? Like I'm wondering how you differentiate between one lurker and another. We can't lynch them all. Does it not make sense to lynch people whose posts could narrow down the pool of lurkers?

Pedit - I'm trying aren't I? You're not making it easy

[BuJaber]

No but you're notorious. And I've now got plenty of my own experience with you as both alignments.

So it's a meta read of them? Got any links to games?

[BuJaber]

So it's about not losing RCE if RCE is town?

Okay say you're wrong about Nips who's next? Like I'm wondering how you differentiate between one lurker and another. We can't lynch them all. Does it not make sense to lynch people whose posts could narrow down the pool of lurkers?

Pedit - I'm trying aren't I? You're not making it easy

How do I narrow down the pool of lurkers?

Depends on what you flip, and what comes out of rereading. Scum flip, look for distancing. Town flip look for people who knew.

But that wasn't my point. Point was if creature thinks both you and Nips scummy, and nips has barely any posts while you have a lot, yours is the better lynch.

[BuJaber]

Then let's agree to wait. If he's not here at all he'll be replaced. And if he comes back but doesn't post in any meaninful way or respond to the mountain of questions.

It's day 2 in a large game.. I'm not seeing what the big deal is with waiting on a slot that poses no danger if scum, and will likely be replaced if town.

Why do you think if we don't lynch him today he will survive another 2 lynches at least? Why would that be the case?

[BuJaber]

Actually why wasn't he replaced already .. says his last post is a week ago.

[BuJaber]

And he'll always be in the jibril wagon pool.
Looking at just the intersection of you/jibril voters seems like giving scum a loophole.

[BuJaber]

I'd be more inclined to vote roster than Nippy, if RCE doesn't happen. Roster's disappearance seems more deliberate.

[BuJaber]

I think he's been trying to change his mind subtly actually.

It's definitely strange. Not to mention that he is trying to draw a circle around the intersection of voters before the lynch even happens. That just tells scum who voted for jibril to not vote for him. Especially that they can easily do that anyway, where they take turns being on the lynch each day.

[BuJaber]

Yeah like nippy stopped even prodging is what I'm saying. He had a brief peak of activity at some point in day 1 and then just stopped caring alltogether.

1. He barely had pressure on him to dissuade him from playing.
2. If he were scum I feel like his partners would have brought repping out up earlier, either in the gamechat or their PT
3. Roster tunnelled me to death as town last game. I don't know if it's a fluke of a game or what but she was one of the top posters.

[BuJaber]

1. He barely had pressure on him to dissuade him from playing.

I mean he wasn't getting heat until today and it's not impossible that he's just like "fuck trying to redeem my slot"

And yet didn't ask for replacement until days after?
People really do not understand what "Play to your win condition" is. Town or scum. :/

Whatever I really shouldn't talk about that right now

They're both useless slots that may or may not flip scum. I still think it's far better to lynch someone who's scummy that also has content to analyze post flip.

Inactive slots can be replaced. From my experience replacements always help town.

[BuJaber]

Trolling in games will get you lynched a lot more than not so explain why trolling is scummy for a start and why it benefits Scum.

b/c trolling is 0 scumhunting and the motivation for that is pretty obvious. Also, if you troll every game or some other anti-town thing it you are going to get the "Vedith always does this. it's null."

Sorry, couldn't help myself.

Honestly I don't know why trolly accounts are tolerated. And it seems the trend is growing with some serious players making alts just to troll in.

When you roll town as a troll you might as well just hold a huge "Fuck you" sign to your fellow townies.

It's actually not anti-scum to do it, because of how rampant town trolling has been lately.

[BuJaber]

No

If we're compromising profii lynch is much better than flippy.

[BuJaber]

No

If we're compromising profii lynch is much better than flippy.

nah

Okay you cinvinced me. sorry

[BuJaber]

Can you not hammer before we see the VC please?

[BuJaber]

I shouldn't have said 'you' that was confusing sorry.

I meant it to everyone. Don't end the day before an official VC is posted

[BuJaber]

Actually doesn't matter the mod will post a VC with the lynch anyway.

[BuJaber]

Regardless of flip anybody who moved from creature wagon to flippy wagon is scummy

[BuJaber]

So that's the wagon to watch out for

[BuJaber]

You're the exception because you're a counterwagon.
There, that make you happy?

Creature was hellbent on lynching flippy. I don't think he was in any real danger of being lynched before creature started pushing him. So it's really suspicious that anybody suspectimg creature would switch and help him.

[BuJaber]

I don't know why you're acting like this profii last I checked you weren't a troll account.

[BuJaber]

When you post you don't post much substance. You're not being forthcoming on hwat you're thinking. I don't know what motivates you or which direction you're taking this game. Apart from you don't want to be lynched. So that's why your vote switch is NAI for me because you have a vested interest in staying alive as either alignment.

Did nothing in this game interest you enough to comment on?

We haven't heard your voice even when you post. If you weren't in this game would anybody notice?

[BuJaber]

I skimmed your ISO again just to be sure. You've had several posts where you start off with original analysis / unique pov, but then you don't follow through or give us the actual analysis you are supposedly doing in the background.

[BuJaber]

Which isn't the first time you've regurgitated my view points and were still scumreading me recently. So if we are thinking along the same lines why are my thoughts coming across as scummy when we are generally ending up on the same conclusion? Or so it seems.

You insisted on the overkill thing when it became evident we were wrong.

And your VCA is scummy, or at least is premature and helps scum.

[BuJaber]

I like RCE's wagon analysis so far and between him and overkill overkill looks pretty bad right now.

When you were pushing the Nero/Rce have to be different alignment angles your read on both of those things was the opposite.

That was before you start going on about intersects and excluding some people who voted Jibril. You started off good then veered off.

And overkill's earlier argument with you is not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about overkill pointing out the misunderstanding AND proving it to us but you didn't want to hear it.

[BuJaber]

Oh and profii, I skipped over him on eyes wagon.

And you being on both wagons doesn't give you pause about thinking that the same scum would vote for both wagons?

[BuJaber]

Jibril/eyes

[BuJaber]

Enigma's post is a fine start but we need to go back to before RCE started his pool of scum and compare it to after. Somebody intentionally left the pool I just don't remember who.

[BuJaber]

follow up: you got your pet lynch and Vedith also fliped town so what does this say about me, Joges and RCE?

Not sure what it says about Joges honestly, you're probably town considering the flips.

I won't quote multiple posts but the one about Vedith claiming tpr by claiming not vt, same read here. Focusing on the wagon specifically I probably put Bujaber as town, roster as town, Nero town, emperor tentative town, Lycan is town regardless of the wagons for today.

So I'm running on the assumption that scum also took Vedith's claim at face value considering he was the nk. People that flipped from Vedith to Jibril {Roster, Bujaber, I'll include Nero and explain why in a bit} higher probability for town. It doesn't matter which wagon they push as scum since both are a mislynch. Vedith defense against roster ended with more voices siding with roster so I think it's something scum could have pushed to a Lynch. It's sort of a large enough group that it probably townspews those 3 slots.

Emporer pushing for jibril and sticking to it is also townie, to my knowledge his meta is lurky just in general. So it's an attention grab that I don't think Scum!Emporer goes for. I don't have a deep read on this slot though.

Nero was active EoD and counting down. Also inteded to hammer before Stanley sniped it. The counter argument here is that scum is fine with a no Lynch if Nero didn't want to be associated with the wagon but it raises too many questions the following day so I'll take his intent and add him to the jibril wagon making him another slot that flipped from Vedith to Jibril.

The slots that leaves are {creature, sashaddin, Profii, overkill, Stanley}

I'll get around to isoing and reading up after my shift. Initial thoughts are that Stanley is the most suspicious. Immediately points to the early voters without much to base it on. Calling out the number of scum on the wagon pings as weird too, possibly tmi. If Stanley is scum here I think it's probable there's a partner on the back end of the wagon.

Profii pings me for the nightkill, it's one he goes for as scum imo. I don't remember much of his day 1 to be honest, I wasn't super interested in the game.

I kind of have to defend my slot from the big bad Nero today though so I guess I'll get invested a bit more.

His pool is large so he tried to make it smaller by looking at the intersect.

That is fine by itself. But the problem is he did it during the same day, which means that any scum who read this could just say "I was voting Jibril, I will not vote for Flippy" and avoid being in RCE's pool.
Now that could either be RCE signalling to his buddies not to put themselves in the pool (no need to explain the WIFOM of doing this publicly), or he's town that gave away a critical part of the day 3 VCA.

It would have been really obvious if someome had voted flippy before the quoted RCE post above and then unvoted, but unfortunately only two people voting for flippy at that time: creature and stanley, and creature didn't unvote.

Also you saying I'm not doing anything this game is fucking rich coming from you creature. What have you done that you're actually proud of? You barely posted in day 1 and day 2 you chose to flip a coin instead of joining a wagon that would have actually been helpful to flip.

[BuJaber]

Oh and profii, I skipped over him on eyes wagon.

And you being on both wagons doesn't give you pause about thinking that the same scum would vote for both wagons?

Disregard this I misunderstood what you said to Enigma

[BuJaber]

Yeah yeah yeah, creature is town and Stanley flipped. Profii, overkill, sashaddin are the remaining slots and 2 of them townread me so, no regerts.

What's your point?

[BuJaber]

Lol sasha doesn't want any connection to the leading wagon.

@RCE - that's unfair it was a long day and I don't remember everything that everybody says. Your most prominent opinion at that point of time was that overkill is scum. Considering I realized my misinderstanding and admited it before you did and you still continued to push him on the claim thing was scummy to me. But I admit I was consumed by wanting to flip either you or nero so much and not only did nero interactions with me make me scumread him less, there was so much more support for your lynch it made sense. Also because flippy was the only strong counterwagon and I wanted him to be replaced.

And you HAVE to see how scummy it is to start VCA on the flippy wagon and connect it to the jibril wagon before it goes through. You are not telling me what town benefits from doing that preemptively. Scum who joined the jibril wagon had no reason to also join the flippy wagon after you said that so your pool would have remained everyone on both wagons, unless flippy was scum.

[BuJaber]

Creature you derailed the rce wagon and lynched a site flaker. Can you explain how that affects your d2 reads?

[BuJaber]

Nero who are your top townreads right now?

[BuJaber]

Ah yes the classic let's not share reads town play. Why should scum have any info am I right?

Fine I don't care. I got my answer you aren't townreading me that's all I needed to know.

I had a theory and I made some specific posts secretly addressed to you but you still scumread me so that didn't work. Was hoping for a cheat code on reading you

[BuJaber]

If they were secrets why did you think I'd pick up on them?

Arrogance I guess.

You spend more time talking to and about me than anyone else with the exception of maybe RCE, so I thought you were paying much closer attention to me than others.

[BuJaber]

Sash has gotta be town - if he was scum he would know I'm town, so he would know by voting me as soon as someone makes the comparison that it would come over really badly as 'distancing' but he didn't it anyway so he legit believes im scum - i.e. doesn't know who is scum, thus is town.

makes sense in my head

didn't like BuJ's comment - I struggle to read him but I think he is scum too

Yeah that makes sense but only from your pov, not for anyone who doesn't know your alignment.

[BuJaber]

Nero
If you're scum it doesn't matter because I'm wrong anyway.
If you're town it might not be relevant anymore. Depends on how the day goes.

[BuJaber]

Sash has gotta be town - if he was scum he would know I'm town, so he would know by voting me as soon as someone makes the comparison that it would come over really badly as 'distancing' but he didn't it anyway so he legit believes im scum - i.e. doesn't know who is scum, thus is town.

makes sense in my head

didn't like BuJ's comment - I struggle to read him but I think he is scum too

Yeah that makes sense but only from your pov, not for anyone who doesn't know your alignment.

yeah and he voted on me when I had so many votes already so looks like my alignment may come to light pretty soon so a risk for scum!sash.

So scum!sash wouldn't do this if you were scum and wouldn't do this if you were town?

[BuJaber]

not what I am saying at all

I was asking about his meta not for you to clarify... but if that's your response I have to ask you to clarify what you're saying also

[BuJaber]

Flapjack how new to the game are you?

[BuJaber]

Regardless of flip anybody who moved from creature wagon to flippy wagon is scummy

Amor (flapjack), enigma, sashaddin, lycanfire, profii was the peak of creature wagon.

Of those, flapjack, sasha, and profii voted for flippy.

[BuJaber]

Flapjack your predecessor was voting for creature but you voted for the wagon creature was leading, why?

Sasha why did you switch from creature to flippy if flippy was being pushed by creature?

Profii had a conflict of interest

[BuJaber]

I did ask you .. just respond

[BuJaber]

Peak means the highest number of votes the wagon reached

[BuJaber]

So scum!sash wouldn't do this if you were scum and wouldn't do this if you were town?

In the current situation, I imagine myself voting Profii whatever my alignment:
As town!Sash, I have enough to suspect him
As scum!Sash, I happily jump on a popular wagon. Oh wait, that's not my playstyle...

So would you or wouldn't you I can't tell.

[BuJaber]

Hang on you didn't answer my question.. you pulled that old timey saloon hustler trick where you say heads I win, tails you lose.

The question was if you were scum:
-would you vote for profii if he were your scum buddy
-would you vote for profii if he were town

[BuJaber]

If the flippy wagon has the same slots on it that the jibril wagon did and jibril flipped town do I think scum are on both? Yes and I will say as such. Why is it weird that slots I think are scum voted both wagons and I give reasoning for why I'm thinking it in the first place? It just makes sense that there would be a greater number of scum on those wagons than off those wagons considering the kill was off wagon.

RCE please help me by pointing out which part I am not explaining well because I have repeated this point several times and you keep repeating your VCA.

I have no problem with the VCA itself. I take issue with you saying it in thread before the flippy wagon has gone through. It was premature. It gives scum an out. It takes away any value town would have gained from the VCA in the first place.

I'll reread the stuff with overkill but I'm pretty sure we said the same thing to overkill because I remember he himself lumped us both together.

[BuJaber]

He was saying that he'd vote him regardless of alignment b/c he has motivation to do it as both town and scum and then later clarified that he's more likely to vote him as town and less likely to vote him as scum.

It was a pointed and dammed if you do, dammed if you don't question from Bujaber.

You know what nero you're even worse than creature when he tunnels.

How about you actually read and not shade me for SAHSHADDIN'S MISUNDERSTANDING.

He didn't answer my question the first time. He answered an imaginary question in his head.

Profii was townreading sasha's vote and I wanted to know more about sasha's meta. Sasha answered but answered the wrong question. Then answered the right question after I clarified.

How do you see flapjack?

[BuJaber]

I'll get around to isoing and reading up after my shift. Initial thoughts are that Stanley is the most suspicious. Immediately points to the early voters without much to base it on. Calling out the number of scum on the wagon pings as weird too, possibly tmi. If Stanley is scum here I think it's probable there's a partner on the back end of the wagon.

This was well before Bujaber prodded further

Alright fair enough
VOTE: flippy
I still think youre mafia

VOTE: RCE

VOTE: Flippy

You're shading RCE a bit because you know he's scum, but you actually want flippy (mis)lynched.

Flippy is not a good lynch. RCE is. Stan1ey is. Profil is also scum.

VOTE: Profil

I’ve been wrong about everything this game. How depressing.

I’ve kinda-sorta been following this explosion.

I think Profil has given up, so is almost certainly scum, kind of hoping that this wagon will dissipate.

Not much of an epiphany if you haven't changed your views at all

[BuJaber]

VOTE: RCE

How about we do this.

Nero you have other reasons to suspect enigma than the low hanging fruit list?
And why enigma before profii? Better still why enigma before RCE?

[BuJaber]

Profii, with a post that could have easily been his last, defended sasha. Profii is not dumb, if he's going to die, he's not going to hang a buddy.

If profii is scum no way sasha is scum. So lynching sasha is just wrong. Also I'm not convinced he's scum based on his own play anyway. I know self-meta is whatever but he seems pretty honest about that and from my latest experience with him he's not exactly a top poster as town.

Also flapjack painting everyone who doesn't join the wagon he's on as scum is stupid and/or scummy considering there's 4 scum alive, not just 1. Especially when they've been changing their own mind on who they want to vote. So why can't others?

RCE was a counterwagon day 2, has encouraged a fast day today, doesn't care who gets lynched, and has a buttload of controversy around them that's a goldmine for post-flip analysis.

Or we get back to profii who's wagon got dissipated to be replaced by one wagon, then that got replaced by another wagon, in a clear move in a far away direction.
I think his point about baiting a CC is valid but VT is also a good claim for scum because of WIFOM. I have plenty of experience as scum claiming VT, or baiting a CC, or fake claiming a role, and there really isn't a magic formula. People don't automatically give you a pass for claiming PR, and smart PRs don't always CC.

[BuJaber]

Okay I saw my name mentioned too many times so I'm sorry if I miss something.

First of all Enigma is talking out of his ass (no offence E), I've had at least 2 scum games since then that I remember, overkill 2 and mini normal 2054.

I asked the question to see how you respond. Scum are likely to want to stick to their predecessor's story or distance away from their reads. It's especially difficult to deal with replacing someone who was bussing because then you don't know what action will protect you and/or your partner the best.

I don't understand what your question was regarding what I did in the open game but basically when I'm scum I just say whatever I think makes me sound townie. Sometimes I believe what I'm saying and sometimes it's just bs. I wouldn't take any towncase or scumcase I pushed as scum in a previous game seriously if I were you.

[BuJaber]

Also your d1 summary of my actions is totally inaccurate. I pushed jibril. I was tunnelled on jibril. I tried to ask her questions and she ignored me. I was trying to sort through the jibril-amor-joges thing because it felt off to me at the time and it was the most interesting thing to look at at that time. Trying to sort nero and RCe came as a byproduct of that

[BuJaber]

Why is RCe town then if you're so sure?
Why is sasha scum after he and profii told you he's not capable of voting profii the way he did as scum?

[BuJaber]

Why is RCe town then if you're so sure?
Why is sasha scum after he and profii told you he's not capable of voting profii the way he did as scum?

@flapjack/insomnia

[BuJaber]

Also, one more question, BuJ, if you’re saying that sasha is conftown because profii is scum and profii said he town reads Sasha, how do you feel about his post saying “I know this will come off sus but I think RCE is town” . Why are you pushing RCE and not Sasha?

@BuJ fine, how about from this game then

I think he's wrong.

Anyway it only makes me want to lynch RCE more for the potential associative there

[BuJaber]

Why is RCe town then if you're so sure?
Why is sasha scum after he and profii told you he's not capable of voting profii the way he did as scum?

Why is he not able to? Maybe profii is just underestimating him.

Could be and sasha could be lying about his self meta but it sounded genuine.

I never said he was conftown. Even if I'm wrong it seems backward to me to lynch sasha first.

How is sasha's vote on a slot being suspected more a while now more suspicious than profii townreading the guy who's putting him in danger of being lynched.

Wouldn't you scumread sasha from profii's perspective?

[BuJaber]

So you don’t think he’s wrong on Sasha as well?

Wait I thought 'he' WAS sasha... who's he?

[BuJaber]

I didn't agree to that but whatever makes you vote RC

[BuJaber]

A deal that makes sense would be if you said let's lynch profii today and if he's town lynch sasha. Since that's the guy we disagree on wrt his comments about sasha

[BuJaber]

I'm really curious about your main / other alts now. Because I didn't recognize neither flap nor insomnia but you seem to know me.

[BuJaber]

I'm not sure if I can be more clear about who I'm scumreading.

You could use your vote. Also, Buj is pushing you so why isn't in your group of "OMG scum is pushing me!"?

He's just being a sheep. Idk he tried to push the idea one scum has to be between us. Maybe people need me flipped to sort you. Idc either way.

like...Buj/RCE team?

If we were scum together he would have pushed me harder to make it believable. I wouldn't stand for a one-way bus.

[BuJaber]

RCE doesn’t flip scum, there’s no rce team going on

Why are you voting him then?

[BuJaber]

I’m voting him so we can rely on my reads and I’m hoping you will be a man of honour and respect our deal

Oh you have this deal with everybody then you just didn't tell them about it.

[BuJaber]

Well I'm town so you're at least 33% wrong already

Pedit - I'm trying to understand what you're doing

[BuJaber]

Yeah that wasn't clear at all.
You said if he flips town I must lynch sasha with you. And then you also said the same thing to nero.
But you were voting RCE before you said any of that and then the explanation that you can't make townies vote with you came later.
But you also say you're scumreading me now, meaning I can't be one of those 'townies you can't convince' from your POV, but you had your 'deal' with only me and nero.

So you can see why I was confused.

Pedit - this is to insomnia obviously

[BuJaber]

This is not an easy game for town.

You want to know why? Check out the activity level.

Vedith got killed on night 1. But he is still the 7th top poster in a game of 17 players.

There are way too many people not posting much and staying away from the thread for days, way more than the number of scum in the game.

[BuJaber]

@overkill and eyes

-who are you guys lynching?

Someone not you and not Sasha. But more precisely, I think Enigma or profii with the current game status. My preferred lynch is Succinct still, but nobody seems to be interested. I still have the theory that one of profii/REC should flip red, and one of Enigma/flapjack is red too (and I'm starting to think it should be Enigma anyway) plus Succinct (joges) and someone who has not been in my pools. We're looking for 4 scums, right? So that's where I am right now.

I’ll join you in succinct if you want
VOTE: succinct

Why are you starting a new wagon?

[BuJaber]

Nobody ever explained the RCE Lynch as far as I can see.

Hop on Profil please. Ty.

Yeah it's not like there are pages and pages of posts discussing RCE throughout the game.

[BuJaber]

RCE was a counterwagon day 2, has encouraged a fast day today, doesn't care who gets lynched, and has a buttload of controversy around them that's a goldmine for post-flip analysis.

And a post in this dayphase if you were too lazy to reread the game.

[BuJaber]

how about we lynch Profii so we dont lynch him in lylo

No, but I'm fine lynching profii so he doesn't endgame us in lylo.

What?

[BuJaber]

VOTE: Bujaber for your consideration.

Bye my lurkerscum

VOTE: BuJaber

VOTE: BuJaber

How am I scum?

This is the 6th wagon this day from 3 people who voted 3 different people.

I'm starting to think the not quickhammering backfired on town.

Everyone is being a lethargic fuck.

[BuJaber]

It really sucks when players sign up for games they're not going to play at all. Large normal for some reason is the favorite type of game for these players.

This is in bad taste coming from you.

You think because you spam a lot you can shitpost?

[BuJaber]

Not shitpost I mean shittalk

[BuJaber]

I haven't seen double JK before myself but I play more opens than closed.

[BuJaber]

VOTE: RCE

Nothing's changed my mind about him.

Also he's not SvS with neither nero nor overkill.

[BuJaber]

Watcher
Targetted lycan night 1, no result.
Targetted creature night 2, no visitors
Targetted creature night 3, roster visited

Creature why did you not want massclaim? I was apprehensive because I could work with my semi-clear on roster without revealing, but at the same time tomorrow could be mylo and that's too late for massclaiming.

[BuJaber]

Succinct, your turn

[BuJaber]

@Insomnia - any change in reads?

@RCE - I don't think overkill is being given a pass. You're just scummier therefore a better lynch.

[BuJaber]

I think you scumreading but not scumreading Bujaber is weird.

Nero was scumreading me for 2 and a half dayphases straight. What are you referring to here exactly?

[BuJaber]

Creature why did you not want massclaim?

@Eyes - you're good with a RCE lynch but don't want to put him on L-1? If he's scum what are you afraid of? That was an awful post.

I can't imagine any scum targetting creature except to kill him, so roster is conftown.

Nero reevaluating his read on me especially after I emplied I've crumbed is also +town.

[BuJaber]

What does pigeonholed mean?

[BuJaber]

I simply refuse to believe that the top wagons of every single day this game have all been on town.

Day 1: eyes, vedith, jibril
Day 2: creature, RCE, Flippy
Day 3: profii, RCe, Enigma, Succinct.

There is absolutely at least 2 scum in {Eyes, RCE, Enigma, Succinct}

And the remainder are in lycan, insomnia, overkill. Overkill is cleared upon RCE scum flip.

[BuJaber]

Insomnia trying discredit people's reads based on the previous mislynches is incredibly slimy considering we've had literally 0 scum flips. NOBODY has been proven right on their scumreads yet. You singling people out has no basis. Not to mention the hypocrisy

[BuJaber]

I did watch nero. But I received no result. Pretty sure scum have a roleblocker.

I don't think creature should have called nero a mason. But whatever.

It's eyes/enigma/lycan/succinct. If I had to guess roleblocker is enigma or succinct.

[BuJaber]

I'll leave it til after the game.

Roster why did you check creature again? Did you not read day 3 at all?

[BuJaber]

Sorry I didn't mean why did you check him twice.
I meant can you remind me again why you checked him the first time.

Checking him day 3 after stanley died night 2 and so many people believing creature to be mason and creature himself being pissed off at stanley dying, made him a pretty shitty GS check.

[BuJaber]

first, i don't think we have this many TPRs
3 masons, 2 JKs, watcher, GS?

i call scum team of
succinct, buj, eyes, insomnia

So you believe there aren't 7 PRs but I'm the only PR in your scumreads.
Seems legit.

Awfully sure of yourself all of a sudden.

I'm very confident of enigma+lycan now. Their agenda of shading me is pretty obvious.

I'm voting in the morning

[BuJaber]

Masons confirm each other and they crumbed
Rooster was super excited to claim
JK are flipped

Your claim can’t be proven - you claimed after other people, claimed results based off heir night actions and then roleblocked
If we are to assess the setup for town pr balance, you are the weak link

Yeah I don't think town!you thinks like this.

First of all you're trying to analyze the mod instead of analyzing my posts. I think I've proven myself with my content even if I weren't a tracker.
Secondly judging the balance makes no sense when we have no scum flips and have absolutely no idea how much power scum has. Only I have confirmed that they have a roleblocker. That's just one role we know of and from your pov you don't even know that so I don't know how you think you can determine what's balanced or not.

Also if crumbing is what it takes then I did crumb, and anybody who's been paying attention would know that. And I didn't crumb day 3, I'm pretty sure I crumbed way earlier than that.
And I'm not the one that chose the massclaim order nor am I going to out myself without getting some useful results. I didn't get any guilties and nobody said something that I could call out as untrue.

Not to mention that roster's claim is terrible if it weren't for me backing it up.

Also I think overkill is town and I appreciate that creature is trying to make lylo easier for us but I don't think there's a 3rd mason. And I definitely don't think that stanley would choose to crumb that creature is his mason and not mention his other mason. Creature is a pretty useless person to confirm as a mason because he conftowns himself anyway with his posting. He was also only briefly in danger of getting lynched, I think stanley was doing it not to protect creature in the short term but to have the association in place for the long term and in case he died. Meaning he would have mentioned his other partner instead of leaving room for doubt later.

But no you didn't think of any of that when a townie would have. You just took the opportunity to ride on creature's paranoia, and your buddy lycan's shading and try to push a narrative that disregards everything that already happened this game.

[BuJaber]

For the lazy:

Creature needs to post

You need to town.

Your post about Persivul isn't enough anymore.

All in due time. Just keep

watching

.

Day 1

So that's the wagon to

watch

out for

Day 2

How do you

see

flapjack?

I have never asked someone to give me a read on a player by phrasing it like this. Usually I just ask what their read is on X.

[BuJaber]

VOTE: Enigma

[BuJaber]

Watcher

[BuJaber]

nice slip above then

Now you're just desperate or maybe your brain never mixes up right and left or scum and town occasionally, in which case good for you, but the average person mixes up opposites every once in a while.

I don't care how you and lycan are spinning this, fact is you're both trying to lynch a PR and someone who's been a strong town voice throughout the game.