Anime U-Pick: King Size [SEASON FINALE...?]


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Post Post #41 (isolation #0) » Thu Jan 31, 2019 9:46 am

Post by mastina »

Hi I'm a mason with Clemency.
VOTE: Joan of Arc.
Scum!
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Post Post #44 (isolation #1) » Thu Jan 31, 2019 9:58 am

Post by mastina »

In post 43, Clemency wrote:no you're not but nice try
True enough, but realclaim talk, I actually am one with the other miller claim.
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Post Post #54 (isolation #2) » Thu Jan 31, 2019 12:49 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 47, Joan of Arc wrote:
In post 44, Joan of Arc wrote:
In post 42, mastina wrote:Hi I'm a mason with Clemency.
VOTE: Joan of Arc.
Scum!
Any particular reasons why?
Because you scumslipped, duh.
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Post Post #200 (isolation #3) » Fri Feb 01, 2019 9:16 am

Post by mastina »

In post 73, Almost50 wrote:OK, so first impression is your slot is Town (Cerb wouldn't be trying to "pocket" me, would he?).
Steven Universe 2 called.
It wants its Almost50 back.

:P
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Post Post #201 (isolation #4) » Fri Feb 01, 2019 9:20 am

Post by mastina »

In post 94, Torque wrote:Re: votes on clemency
I don’t get whats so bad about that interaction RP quoted
Nothing. Clemency's my top townread right now for good reason. (I have a full readslist btw, it just doesn't quite seem like the right time to post it in here. I'll know when to spring it.)
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Post Post #202 (isolation #5) » Fri Feb 01, 2019 9:25 am

Post by mastina »

In post 103, Chito and Yuuri wrote:Anyway, I found or cropped some avatars for the poor souls without cute anime avatars
I'm not sure if I should be complemented that my avatar looks animesque enough to be included here (I mean my style's meant to have that aesthetic but 'meant to' and 'succeeded' are two different things altogether), or if anime everywhere should be insulted that you lumped my avatar in with them. :P

(Not that I'd change this avatar anyway; a gift from Ari is godly good, and while I hate the initial avatar drawn by me, the others it rotates through are anywhere from okay to gorgeous, so.)
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Post Post #203 (isolation #6) » Fri Feb 01, 2019 9:29 am

Post by mastina »

In post 169, Drixx wrote:This REEKS of too much information. How could you possibly know the specifics of how the hoods were generated with enough certainty to declare that? You can't.
Neither could scum; don't pretend otherwise.
In post 156, Joan of Arc wrote:This picture is important.
Does it mean you're not just breaking the rules, you're shattering them into millions of splinters?

:P
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Post Post #205 (isolation #7) » Fri Feb 01, 2019 9:32 am

Post by mastina »

In post 181, Joan of Arc wrote:I am not Jaune, and lynching me will not work.
Oh.

I think I figured out who Joan of Arc is.

In fact I'm like.
97% sure I have that guess on lock because the player I'm thinking of wouldn't miss out on signing up for a game like this even if their stock anime of choice would be too old to pick.

Sec, I need to recalculate my read there given that.
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Post Post #210 (isolation #8) » Fri Feb 01, 2019 9:51 am

Post by mastina »

In post 195, Reasonably Psychotic wrote:Huh. Pretty sure I am now certain I know who you're an alt of. Got it. Hi! <3
Dammit Cerb, I got it from an earlier post number than you did so I identified her first! (That did kinda throw subtlety to the wind though. *I* figured it out by writing style combined with playstyle with some key phrases, the hard way. Kinda miffed my effort in finding out was essentially worthless since it's pretty obvious to everyone now.)
In post 192, Gamma Emerald wrote:Mmm. I hate this "it's not my fault, it's yours!" mentality with a burning passion. Mostly because I see it used primarily by foul villains.
Having pegged who Joan of Arc is, I can say that mentality is not alignment indicative from her.

She's still a scumread, mind you, but a peripheral one rather than a main one.
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Post Post #214 (isolation #9) » Fri Feb 01, 2019 10:01 am

Post by mastina »

In post 212, Torque wrote:Sigh I think kinda know who she is too. Don't remember how to read her tho lmao
maybe i'll just sheep one of you there and call it a day
I did know how to read her and if I could remember my trick, you could sheep me there--problem is, I can't remember the trick; I've forgotten how to get a genuine read on her.

However, if she's serious about having intended to become a better player this game, the majority of my suspicions are basically null-and-void as a serious attempt to become a better player--going so far as to play on a new, mostly-secret account--mean that those things are probably not scum-indicative and are more likely her actually trying to better herself.

And for the record, Joan: in my opinion, so far, you've been succeeding. Keep what you're doing now up. <3

Meanwhile:
VOTE: Reasonably Psychotic
Don't think there's much point in me hiding that scumread anymore.
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Post Post #216 (isolation #10) » Fri Feb 01, 2019 10:22 am

Post by mastina »

In post 215, Almost50 wrote:It's that ole devil called tunneling again.
It aint a tunnel if it's right. :P
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Post Post #221 (isolation #11) » Fri Feb 01, 2019 11:23 am

Post by mastina »

In post 220, Reasonably Psychotic wrote:Anyways, I do see why you'd think that though, if for no other reason than professed suspicion of your strongest townread coming from someone who you likely expect better from/more mindmelding, as it were.
Cute that you think that's why I'm scumreading you. :cool:
In post 220, Reasonably Psychotic wrote:You are absolutely incorrect in that Drixx(if town) can be sure that scum have no idea about how membership was decided in PT's. I think it's unlikely, but not impossible.
The only way scum would know is if they were informed via role.
Since I am Informed, I know that it's possible for scum to be informed, obv, but just as likely is for town to be informed, or for nobody to be informed.

It's pretty self-evident. Scum aren't going to have more knowledge unless it is part of their role--and if it is part of their role, then it is part of their fakeclaim. If it is part of their fakeclaim, then it is effectively identical to being part of a town role.
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Post Post #222 (isolation #12) » Fri Feb 01, 2019 11:27 am

Post by mastina »

In post 221, mastina wrote:Since I am Informed
And yes, I am making this explicit; my role doesn't call it Informed, but the role is Informed. That's not all my role is, but part of my role is Informed.

So my point stands.
The only way scum have more information is if it's part of their role; if it is a part of their role, it's a part of their fakeclaim; if it's part of their fakeclaim, it's effectively identical to being a town role, and I know said town roles exist because I'm one of them.

If you want to call BNL scum, pursuing him on knowledge? Not the angle to go. Because knowledge of this sort isn't alignment indicative.
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Post Post #223 (isolation #13) » Fri Feb 01, 2019 11:34 am

Post by mastina »

In post 203, mastina wrote:
In post 169, Drixx wrote:This REEKS of too much information. How could you possibly know the specifics of how the hoods were generated with enough certainty to declare that? You can't.
Neither could scum; don't pretend otherwise.
Back to here so that maybe I can clarify what I mean in as much detail as possible.
Drixx was asserting that BNL had TMI, and concluding that TMI on the subject = scum.
My point was that's fallacious, because scum wouldn't have TMI on how hoods were generated. Neither would town, either. No alignment would have TMI on how hoods were generated...

...UNLESS, they had an Informed role, like mine.
...But my point of Drixx's point being fallacious still holds, because...
...An Informed mafiate has an Informed fakeclaim and any mod worth their salt will have an Informed fakeclaim be just as believable as the Informed town--making it impossible to distinguish between the two. An Informed scum could exist, but so too could an Informed town exist (and does, because I'm one of them). Making having information most players don't have...

...Not alignment indicative.

Which is why I said.
Pushing the angle of BNL having TMI? Not the angle you want to pursue him on; try again.

(Also he's town, so.)
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Post Post #225 (isolation #14) » Fri Feb 01, 2019 11:38 am

Post by mastina »

In post 220, Reasonably Psychotic wrote:@BNL: Confirmation or rejection of mastina's mason claim is pretty much mandatory at this point.
Also this is stupendously self-evidently a shitty idea and you know it.

If you have a different angle to approach BNL as scum from,
maybe
the idea of verifying a mason claim has merit.

By that I mean.
If BNL is under suspicion for a legitimate reason, then sure, yes, confirming mason status is an important thing.

But if BNL is under suspicion for shitty reasons that are self-evidently flawed and not the case, then confirming mason status is just stupid.
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Post Post #227 (isolation #15) » Fri Feb 01, 2019 11:47 am

Post by mastina »

(Btw on the note of Drixx; he's actually near the top of my readslist right now. Not AT the top, but pretty damn close.)
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Post Post #479 (isolation #16) » Sun Feb 03, 2019 4:07 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 228, Robert2424 wrote:Idk, I can't really trust Mastina. Especially after the game she replaced in.
The difference is I was scum there telling the truth whereas here I am town telling the "truth". :P
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Post Post #480 (isolation #17) » Sun Feb 03, 2019 4:11 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 285, Drixx wrote:I can't really imagine a world where Mastina lists me as a near top town read on so few posts.
Oh don't be deceived.

You're not so much a townread so much as you are a "not groupscum" read; you're near the top of my readslist in spite of being what amounts to a weak townread at best. :P (And yes the thought crossed my mind lowkey that you'd be 3p but you know my stance there is to treat 3p as if town regardless so. I don't think you're groupscum and that's good enough for me.)
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Post Post #481 (isolation #18) » Sun Feb 03, 2019 4:16 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 330, Reasonably Psychotic wrote:Also @mastina we are a hydra. I exist and I’m a developed hooman and not the flat girlfriend character. Don’t forget this head or you’ll make me cry.
Yes well, Cerb's the one I can read, so. He's the one I get to go off of, especially since your presence both in thread and in site is scarce (by which I mean lack of meta + lack of strong presence = Cerb's got more stuff).
In post 349, Gamma Emerald wrote:Also SSBF proly town
Nooooo not really. He's not a scumread but he's the closest thing to being one without being one.
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Post Post #482 (isolation #19) » Sun Feb 03, 2019 4:20 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 424, Near x Mello wrote:do you think that's scum indicative?
I do have your slot as a scumread albeit one of the "barely" ones.
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Post Post #541 (isolation #20) » Mon Feb 04, 2019 3:48 pm

Post by mastina »

Joan. Joan. Hey. If you want to get better, then what you're doing now is going to lead you to your normal pitfalls; try something else? <3
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Post Post #614 (isolation #21) » Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:49 am

Post by mastina »

In post 547, Torque wrote:SHINY DAYS!!
SHINI DAYS

GET UP!
GET UP!

SHINI DAYS

GET UP!
GET UP!

(Sorry, I couldn't resist. Also, props to anyone who gets the ref.)
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Post Post #615 (isolation #22) » Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:54 am

Post by mastina »

In post 583, Reasonably Psychotic wrote:4/9 votes makes you worried and panicked, when there's not really any concrete pressure on you, and we're not close enough to deadline to just default to you, and as a replacement people tend to give you room to breathe if a deadline isn't approaching?
Urge to vote pink ball rising.
In post 591, Spike and Jet wrote:VOTE: reasonably psychotic
yukiterus new posts are fluff
and no, good points were not made about spike
Urge to take vote off of reasonably psychotic lowering.
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Post Post #651 (isolation #23) » Tue Feb 05, 2019 8:42 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 616, Dunnstral wrote:Wow, this game is not very interesting for me for some reason
Yeah I said something to that effect in my PT, so. Can verify--not in the same sense, way it manifests for me is quite different, but it's there as a thing.
In post 639, Spike and Jet wrote:are you trying to get us nked n1 bro
In post 623, Spike and Jet wrote:Also I townread the Asking for a friend slot.
In post 628, Spike and Jet wrote:
In post 613, Toogeloo wrote:Piecing the game together, I think it's very possible Spike and Jet could be scum here. Alisae was going ho Creature scum meta. After constant pushes, Creature finally shows up, but Alisae has now replaced out, so any pressure that might have happened will never be. I have just been getting a lot of activity filler feelings from the past few pages, and the recent buddying of Verdith is just making me feel worse about the slot.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Spike and Jet
You're likely town, but let's not.
In post 630, Spike and Jet wrote:
In post 602, Vedith wrote:Should I claim?
Yeh, Vedith is definitely town.
In post 633, Spike and Jet wrote:Cerberus can be town for now.
With reads like these?

Nahhh you're good, bro. You're living for a long, long time with reads like those. A VERY long time.
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Post Post #653 (isolation #24) » Tue Feb 05, 2019 8:50 pm

Post by mastina »

For the record.

Just on record.

I can't say I'm much better but at least I won't go around saying "I'm gonna die N1"; I know better given my own (lack of) reads quality.

I said it before and I'll say it again; I don't particularly have townreads, so much as I have "not groupscum" reads combined with "I don't want to lynch these people yet" reads, with the people in my lynch list being more "I'd be willing to lynch here" more than real proper scumreads. (Well, for most except maybe some of my bottom four. Particularly Cerb.)

Fair's fair when it comes to sharing tho, and I've been meaning to get this into the thread for a while.

Robert2424
Joan of Arc
Dunnstral
Almost50
Gamma Emerald
Super Smash Bros. Fan/Vedith
Near x Mello
Asking for a friend/Pink Ball
Toogeloo
Reasonably Psychotic

People above this point in my readslist are in the "point of being where I don't think they're groupscum".

The top of this list is "players who I don't want to lynch yet"; the middle of this list is "people who I'd be okay with lynching as a compromise", and the bottom four are preferred lynches.

So my reads aren't exactly in a better state I'll freely admit that but they're diametrically opposed to pretty much all of Creature's right now.
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Post Post #654 (isolation #25) » Tue Feb 05, 2019 8:54 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 652, Chito and Yuuri wrote:Chito: Mastina, would you like to join our team and put your vote on Vedith?
Honestly my hopes aren't high that he'd be scum. Quite the opposite I kinda think he's town. I'll vote there to get a lynch, especially since we don't
need
to use every day on our deadline (it's a week away), but I just kinda feel like.

Well.

We shouldn't drag the day out just for the sake of dragging the day out.

But I just am hoping that
something
, ANYTHING, productive can come of today? When I don't think it will right now. Like, I don't want to drag the day out if it won't accomplish anything, but my fear is that ending the day early also won't accomplish anything.

And my only reason to really vote Vedith is to get that lynch now, to end the day earlier rather than later.

It just feels like we need something, and I'm not convinced a flip alone gives us that something.
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Post Post #656 (isolation #26) » Tue Feb 05, 2019 8:59 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 653, mastina wrote:Super Smash Bros. Fan/Vedith
Near x Mello
Asking for a friend/Pink Ball
Toogeloo
Reasonably Psychotic
Btw, for some clarity on my feelings there.

Yeah I know my reads aren't great.

But I still feel there's a minimum of one scum in here--and actually feel it's at least two. It could be as high as three.

I'd be flabbergasted if I got four (I'm never that good), but this would be an
incredibly
off game if there wasn't at least one in there.

Reasonably Psychotic and Toogeloo are the strongest two, so my best bet, though honestly Near x Mello might be my third-strongest there.

Vedith is, by far, the weakest, in that while I didn't think SSBF's content was good, I lack the meta familiarity to give context for his play, and Vedith here is harder to read but vaguely gives off some :goodvibes: overall. He's a compromise read more than anything else.
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Post Post #721 (isolation #27) » Wed Feb 06, 2019 10:34 am

Post by mastina »

In post 659, Toogeloo wrote:I forget what that scumtell is called, but I know it's a thing lol.
It
is
a thing, but the Rule of Three is, explicitly, a post-flip tell. It is not a scumtell in of itself, because
every
player can and SHOULD have a scum grouping of 3-5 players. Because no fucking shit, that's the size of the scumteam and any town player failing to have that number of people they think are suspicious is failing as a scumhunter.

It only becomes a tell when you have a scum player flipped, and analyze their posts; if there is a group of 3-5 players, which you have very good reason to suspect is mostly town, named as suspicions...then the name you see that isn't a suspected town is, quite likely, scum. And sometimes (though not as reliably) you can invert it such that if you have two flipped scum and one of them had a group of 3-5 players with the other flipped scum included as a scumread, it can be reason to name the rest in there town.

The rule of three is also extremely playstyle dependent and situational in that it is no hard fast tell; more scum utilize it than don't, but they are perfectly capable of subverting it, e.g. heavily bussing (putting more than the expected number of scum in), heavily anti-bussing (putting no scum in and hoping the town doesn't clear the players pushed).
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Post Post #722 (isolation #28) » Wed Feb 06, 2019 10:42 am

Post by mastina »

In post 680, Torque wrote:I think that entire exchange with cowboy bebop
Obligatory link
In post 698, Almost50 wrote:P-edit: Now THAT's a good attempt at moving the game froward. I look forward to seeing this dialogue.
It really isn't? It's something by FAR more likely to come from a scum-Cerb than a town-Cerb.

Admittedly the intended goal is admirable enough, but no amount of nobility changes the alignment behind the action; it's still scum even if it's something which is pro-fun. (Cerb isn't the type of player to be happy with a victory through apathy as scum--he'll TAKE a victory through apathy, but he won't be HAPPY about a victory through apathy. I'm not entirely sure whether if given the choice between victory through apathy or loss through lack thereof which he takes, probably did at some point but have since forgotten, but I know that if given a choice between assured victory through apathy or less-assured-but-still-plausible victory through lack thereof, he'll pick the latter.)
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Post Post #723 (isolation #29) » Wed Feb 06, 2019 10:46 am

Post by mastina »

In post 700, Elena Fisher wrote:Agreed I think there posting came from very obvious town.
Hard disagree especially with Pink Ball's entrance. There was nothing town about that, especially the refusal to go into reasons. Quite the opposite, I have very strong reasons to believe that's indicative of Pink Ball being scum.
In post 709, Near x Mello wrote:
In post 704, Elena Fisher wrote:I think I've given a pretty good outline on why I think he's scum.
no you havent, you just quoted a shallow read on mastina and said yourself that you don't know if its playstyle or not
Based on him immediately outing his role and his neighborhood and everything it should be obvious what kind of player he is
Hey, here's a bombdrop.

I am intimately familiar with Toogeloo's playstyle having many games' experience with him so I know what type of player he is, and he's one of my strongest scumreads.
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Post Post #728 (isolation #30) » Wed Feb 06, 2019 11:03 am

Post by mastina »

In post 724, Near x Mello wrote:what i am saying is that elena seems to be disliking a playstyle rather than actual scummy things
Well I know the playstyle and am disliking the actual scummy things coming from it.
In post 725, Near x Mello wrote:i dont particularly like pink ball's entrance either but i have zero experience there too
I do and this is rather uncharacteristic of how he acts as town, so.
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Post Post #736 (isolation #31) » Wed Feb 06, 2019 11:31 am

Post by mastina »

In post 733, Almost50 wrote:>I< Welcome the gesture, as >I< enjoy watching the two trying to figure out stuff in their hydra PT.
I mean, I appreciate and welcome the gesture, too, I just hold no illusions about it being even remotely town in origin. It's something to thank him for, sure, but it's not something which makes him town; quite the opposite.
In post 733, Almost50 wrote:But since you brought up motive, I can't see this coming from scum!cerb unless he is scum
with
Drixx.
Actually it's the opposite; there's no way that he'd ever do this if he were scum with Drixx and it is quite self-evidently the case based off of their interactions that they aren't.
In post 733, Almost50 wrote:Now where was the problem again?
The problem was the idea of treating it as town when it's not. I'm fully appreciative of the gesture, but I want no illusions to be held about the nature of it, coming more from a humanitarian effort than from a town gamesolving effort. It's undeniably a good thing, but it's not a town thing.
In post 734, Almost50 wrote:Please enlighten us all, because -if for nothing else- I have modded him on both Overkill episodes and this is exactly his TOWN play that I saw from above.
Later. Was gonna be done with playing mafia for the next few hours or so at minimum (potentially the day) but caught your post; am not in the frame of mind to lay it out.
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Post Post #739 (isolation #32) » Wed Feb 06, 2019 11:33 am

Post by mastina »

In post 735, Pink Ball wrote:Hey, I didn't refuse to go into reasons
In post 695, Pink Ball wrote:
In post 693, Vedith wrote:Reasons will be a good shout. :up:
Of course, I will when I'm fully caught up since this are preliminary reads that could be outdated.
In post 696, Drixx wrote:Seeing your progression on reads is useful.
And that's still absent even now.

You're experienced enough to know that it is much easier to mold reasons to reads when you don't need to give those reasons.
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Post Post #757 (isolation #33) » Wed Feb 06, 2019 1:21 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 750, Pink Ball wrote:The second point I could believe you, but this game was highly expected for what I saw in the queue, so I'm inclined to think that everyone read the OP while waiting, as Near pointed out right now.
Actuallyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy...

I thought my neighborhood was the only one in the game until it was pointed out that this was an "everyone's in (at least) one neighborhood" game.
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Post Post #758 (isolation #34) » Wed Feb 06, 2019 1:22 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 755, Chito and Yuuri wrote:Mastina, what was your read on Alisae before Pink Ball replaced in?
-Yuuri
That would be a scumread; I went into why in my PT a bit and meant to bring it up in the main thread but it never seemed like a good time to share. (Same for most of my reads, really; I've explained most of them at some point or another.)
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Post Post #759 (isolation #35) » Wed Feb 06, 2019 1:25 pm

Post by mastina »

(Heck, due to my pick and the youtube video in the OP of my 'hood I even thought my role was partially responsible for the existence of the 'hood until the mod explicitly said otherwise.)
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Post Post #760 (isolation #36) » Wed Feb 06, 2019 1:29 pm

Post by mastina »

(And yes I'm defending both Torque and Elena as both are among my strongest townreads.)
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Post Post #761 (isolation #37) » Wed Feb 06, 2019 1:30 pm

Post by mastina »

(By which, I mean, they actually
are
townreads. :P)
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Post Post #786 (isolation #38) » Wed Feb 06, 2019 8:29 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 762, Chito and Yuuri wrote:Chito: What's your success rate on reading Maria, mastina?
About the same as with most scummers: 60/40. (Keeping in mind that the expected success rate would probably be around 70-80% to be a competent read, making 60% a subpar rating.) I'm not awful at reading her but I'm not the best.

She's not triggering any of my warning signs, though. There's a few warning signs I'd look for; strongly agreeing with her, strongly townreading her, etc.; those are absent. (I'd expect to strongly townread her if she were scum here. I'd also expect to largely agree with her reads here if she were scum here; that is also mostly absent.)
In post 766, Pink Ball wrote:You're using rethorics here to antagonize my points; have you pointed out before that those two are among your strongest townreads, or are you just emphasizing that you disagree with me and that you scumread my slot?
Yes?
In post 769, Pink Ball wrote:By the way, the votecount is AWFUL, what's up with all the vanity votes? Is scum getting caught with that?
VOTE: Gamma Emerald
>Calls out vanity voters.
>Makes a vanity vote.
Seems legit. :cool:
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Post Post #787 (isolation #39) » Wed Feb 06, 2019 8:32 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 785, Spike and Jet wrote:im also not sure this push on us by toog is natural at all
hes dropped all the way down my reads
and i think theres more to it than my natural omgus instinct
You win some,
In post 782, Spike and Jet wrote:I did like Pink Ball's catch up.
You lose some.
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Post Post #848 (isolation #40) » Thu Feb 07, 2019 12:21 pm

Post by mastina »

Ehh screw it, I'll do this right now rather than once home, so that I can maybe have an answer by the time I'm home. Didn't want to, because it messes up my spot in the new posts thingy, but I'll manage.

Pink Ball, I may know your main; if I do, it makes a difference in how I read you.

I don't want to out you if I'm right, so to be as careful as possible:
Pretty sure that this was from a private conversation, but just in case:
Are you Neo? Specifically, unknown Neo? The Neo in hiding?

If I did peg your main, you'd PROBABLY be able to decipher this, tho I admit my code may be a bit TOO vague. Still, if you are that person, you'd be able to check your messages with me and find the reference.
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Post Post #852 (isolation #41) » Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:19 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 849, Pink Ball wrote:I have no PMs from you in my main :lol:
Nor would you, if my guess was right. :shifty:
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Post Post #854 (isolation #42) » Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:26 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 793, Toogeloo wrote:Don't fight it, I feel like you are both town. It's day 1, so any time "odds are" is used as a point of argument, it's completely valid. In fact, it's probably the best scum hunting tool to use on Day 1 to narrow the lunch pool. Don't induce paranoia into the mix just because you can. Literally any argument that can be made for town can be made for scum.
This comment feels like it was meant to be posted in a PT.
In post 791, Vedith wrote:What I don't get with you Pink Ball is your Gamma read is gut and Mastina you seem to believe/put across that you have a valid Scum read yet vote Gamma. That's most likely because Gamma is by far the easier lynch of the 2 and gives you a chance tomorrow to just say, well Mastina just isn't paired with Gamma on a town flip.
If Pink Ball's who I suspect, this has a rational explanation.

Otherwise, the point's quite valid.
In post 797, Pink Ball wrote:About why Gamma and not mastina: I'm not getting a mastina lynch on D1. You don't lynch mastina on D1. Have you played with mastina before?
Funny you say that considering you almost did last time we played together--you fell one vote short, but the
only
reason you fell short is because the worst did a derp fakeclaim and got himself into trouble. I was at L-1 prior to that.

So you know it's possible; this excuse is utter bullshit.

There's a valid excuse if you're who I suspect, but your stated reason? Absolutely not.
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Post Post #855 (isolation #43) » Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:27 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 853, Pink Ball wrote:
In post 852, mastina wrote:
In post 849, Pink Ball wrote:I have no PMs from you in my main :lol:
Nor would you, if my guess was right. :shifty:
Oh I thought that you were implying it was on a PM 'cause you said I should check your messages. Then I don't get the reference, sorry :(
The unidentified one. Are you the unidentified one? (That's a little more explicit.)
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Post Post #856 (isolation #44) » Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:34 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 810, Gamma Emerald wrote:
In post 760, mastina wrote:(And yes I'm defending both Torque and Elena as both are among my strongest townreads.)
Why the need to specify this?
In post 786, mastina wrote:
In post 766, Pink Ball wrote:You're using rethorics here to antagonize my points; have you pointed out before that those two are among your strongest townreads, or are you just emphasizing that you disagree with me and that you scumread my slot?
Yes?
In post 814, Near x Mello wrote:gamma is town, pink.
I'm not sure of that to the point where he'd be in the "I don't want to lynch these people right now" pile, but my read on him is where I'm trusting that assessment to the point of, "I would only vote these people as a compromise if necessary".

In a normal game if I didn't have shitty reads that'd be equivalent to "I'm not sure of that to the point where he'd be a townread, but my read on him is such where I'd trust that assessment enough to label him as null", more or less. He's certainly no scumread, is what I'm getting at, but I'm not at the point where he's someone I'd call a townread, either.
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Post Post #859 (isolation #45) » Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:40 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 825, Almost50 wrote:Vedith(5) ~ Near x Mello, Chito and Yuuri, Torque, Clemency, Spike and Jet, <<< all town wagon.. on a townie
Pink Ball(3) ~ Gamma Emerald, Joan of Arc, Robert2424, <<< 2v1 in town
Gamma Emerald(3) ~ Elena Fisher, Pink Ball, Dunnstral, <<< 2v1 in town
Spike and Jet(1) ~ Toogeloo, <<< town on town
singletonking(1) ~ Morality, <<< town on town
Reasonably Psychotic(1) ~ mastina, <<< scum on town
Clemency(1) ~ Drixx, <<< town on town
Almost50(1) ~ Vedith, <<< town on town
Not Voting (3): Reasonably Psychotic, Almost50, singletonking, <<< 3 lazy townies (yes, I know I'm one of the 3)
Sorry mate but you got a couple backwards. There's a scum on Vedith but the wagon is mostly town driven; there's no scum on Pink Ball; you got the town/scum on Reasonably Psychotic backwards.
In post 832, Torque wrote:> Just looking at the vote count alone, it makes a ton of sense if Vedith and Gamma are w/w
Almost50 is right; that's backwards--they're both town.
In post 835, Reasonably Psychotic wrote:Though for reals vediths entire entry was pretty shit, and I don't really see what your'e seeing in his reactions that make him town.
Because you're scumreading him, duh.
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Post Post #860 (isolation #46) » Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:46 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 858, Pink Ball wrote:I'm trying as hard as I can to understand but I really don't think I'm the droid you're looking for
The thing is, if you were him your play makes total sense to me. Your treatment of me suddenly makes a whole lot more sense and given the matching playstyle plus the general tone of posts, pop culture knowledge, speech patterns, etc., it all fits as being the one unknown alt of one particular person who I know every other alt of (or so he's told me before).

If you were him, then stances like this:
In post 857, Pink Ball wrote:I didn't say you CAN'T lynch mastina on D1, I'm saying you SHOULDN'T. And in that game I didn't vote for you on D1, not even once, 'cause you would be solved after the worst's flip 'cause your motivations would be revealed after that, and you got lynched after the worst flipped town. So my point still stands: I'm not talking about lynching you on D1 is or isn't possible, I'm saying it's not optimal.
Suddenly make sense, because they match his experience with me perfectly, ESPECIALLY over the last few months.

But if you're not him.

Then the stance remains utter bullshit--there's nothing which makes lynching me later better than lynching me earlier. In fact, having given me the extra day to live let me set that game to lylo, giving us a window into possible victory where there would have been ABSOLUTELY none otherwise. Letting me live to see D2 allowed scum to live to lylo and have a shot at winning it, in a game where lynching me D1 would've immediately condemned my scumbuddy to a D2 lynch.

If you were that scummer, I could understand the extra mastina experience leading to this level of hesitance.

But off of that one game? Absolutely not; your experience from that game should've told you the fucking opposite, to power-lynch me at the first available opportunity.
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Post Post #862 (isolation #47) » Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:55 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 861, Pink Ball wrote:I'm glad my point is so good that you think it's coming from someone that knows you well.
That's the thing, though.

It's not a valid point.

It's a point which
makes sense
from one player
.

That one player having that stance makes sense.

That one player having that stance does not make the point be valid. Or rather, I could say it this way:
The point is ONLY valid coming from
that
scummer. From any other scummer with their different mastina experience, their stance should be the fucking opposite.

So my point holds, that your point is backwards.

If you were that one person, the point wouldn't be backwards; not being that one person, the point remains backwards.
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Post Post #864 (isolation #48) » Thu Feb 07, 2019 2:05 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 863, Pink Ball wrote:So I'm the second player with that point, yay
Except that point can only come from that player with it making sense as coming from town.
Because that player is the only one who has the unique experiences required to generate that viewpoint as town.

You generating that point doesn't make sense as town, because there's no scummer in existence who has the game experience to justify that viewpoint other than the scummer who you aren't--I would know. I know my own fucking games and I know the players who have played in them. For the last year or so, I've been mentally tracking who's played in my recent games. Not only that, but also who knows my alts that I've played on versus who doesn't.

The only scummer who has played the games necessary for the viewpoint you hold is the person you're denying to be--and I believe you that you're not them. So the question would then be why you have that viewpoint, when the only person who could hold it...isn't you. The viewpoint thus is alignment indicative. The viewpoint makes sense coming from someone who is scum and doesn't want to directly confront me, and doesn't require you to be that person; ANYONE who is scum could hold that very same opinion for the very same reasoning.
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Post Post #872 (isolation #49) » Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:54 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 865, Reasonably Psychotic wrote:I would(and have) always argue(d) to keep you alive until later in the game, with my multiple experiences with both town and scum you, under multiple alts(of yours).
And almost always, when making those arguments to keep me alive, what alignment were you pushing me as?

Can't recall a single time it was below the null line. Maybe there were times where it WAS the null line, but never below it.
In post 866, Pink Ball wrote:1. Not being in your games doesn't mean I don't know you whatsoever
Sure! Knowing me's the problem.

Knowing me means that you should be fucking lynching me.

There is ONE person, who you are not, that would have reason to not be lynching me with that scumread. Anyone else knowing me with a scumread? Pushes me.
In post 866, Pink Ball wrote:2. Scum!Pink Ball replaces in and the first thing he does is 1v1 mastina?
That's my fucking point.
You're avoiding a 1v1, when
as town
you wouldn't be
.
In post 866, Pink Ball wrote:3. Scum!Pink Ball says the truth and tells you that he's not the person you suspect I am that would make you townread me?
I didn't explain the specifics until after you denied it--initially I didn't even say it'd be a townread. I said it'd change my read; I didn't say how. And then you denied it, I let on some but held back; you denied more, I revealed more. Only when it was outright refusal with good reason to believe that was accurate did I reveal it was a townread.
In post 869, Drixx wrote:Was Mastina more, less or equally as active in your hood as in the game thread up until the post I quoted from Cerb? It's important.
You know you COULD just ask me since I'm not gonna lie about a fact like that. (Also my hood I get the impression doesn't really want to out themselves so good luck getting them to. Nobody's said a word on the subject in there, but nobody's claimed it yet, sooooooooo.)

I've got about half the number of posts I have in here, in there.

Content-wise, I've got roughly an equal amount in there, to in here which is my bad because I didn't want to keep it to the neighborhood, I just didn't find the right time to reveal it to everyone. So the post ratio's different; the content ratio's equal, or double, depending on your metric.
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Post Post #892 (isolation #50) » Fri Feb 08, 2019 11:22 am

Post by mastina »

MOD: V/LA for indeterminable amount of time due to snowmageddon
.

Knocked out my internet, and it'll be a LONG time before they fix that.
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Post Post #922 (isolation #51) » Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:33 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 877, Gamma Emerald wrote:I feel like this level of clarity from mastina is town
Is that off-base?
Considering being logical is a scumtell of mine? Yep!
In post 878, Pink Ball wrote:1. Tired of this bullshit, I already explained my reasoning, you're just repeating yourself so I'll start doing the same if you keep doing it. I'm 100% making sense and saying that it's scum AI it's plain bullshit.
I'm not repeating myself; I'm clarifying and bringing new angles with new evidence to the table.
In post 878, Pink Ball wrote:2. I think more than half of my posts here are talking with you, I'M AVOIDING YOU? Bullshit again.
Oh, really?

And, pray tell...how many of those posts existed
before
I confronted you?

Let's see...

I confronted you about this in...hmm. Do we start with the confrontation about your perspective on me, or the confrontation about your entrance? Either way the point stands that I confronted you, not vice versa, but let's check both. was my initial confrontation; was my second full confrontation. How many of your posts dealt with me prior to 723? None.

Not a one.

How many of your posts prior to 848 were about me? = 3.5.
= 4.5.
Your brings the total up to 5.5.
And then = 6.5.
= 7.5. (Keep in mind I am being as generous as is possible here.)
= 8.5.

Prior to 848, you had 8.5--let's be as generous as is possible and say that half-post is a full one and call it nine--posts about me.

Out of a total of 38.
Do you know what 9/38 is? 23.6% So even if you round that to 24%, or even if you round that to 25%. Being the ABSOLUTE MOST GENEROUS I COULD BE. That's
half
of half. And then you get into how I could easily remove half of the posts present from the total if being less-than-generous, and you'd get an even lower number.

And most of them.

Were you.

Defending.

Against me.

Noticing a trend?

I sure as fuck did.
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Post Post #923 (isolation #52) » Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:38 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 880, singletonking wrote:mastina, since you're scumreading Vedith and Pink Ball, why aren't you voting either?
You apparently didn't read right if you thought I was scumreading Vedith.

As for why not Pink Ball, I realize it might seem a little difficult to grasp given that I have pushed so hard on Pink Ball, but--he is actually my
weakest
scumread. The scumread I am
most
likely to be wrong on. The scumread I have the least confidence in. The scumread who is the most likely of my scumreads to actually be town. (That is, incidentally, part of the reason I pushed him in the first place, mind you.) I'll vote him, but he's not my preferred lynch.
In post 889, Toogeloo wrote:The top wagons all suck.
And you're scum, who isn't really trying to change that; you're trying to get cheap towncred from saying this but not actually end up fixing it because fixing it would fuck you guys over.
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Post Post #925 (isolation #53) » Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:44 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 912, Tatsuya Kaname wrote:
Pink Ball(5)
~ (66), (29), (15), (44), (41)
Went and checked and of the six people involved here (if you include me), he's scumreading half of them with a forth as null. The only townreads are Joan and Almost50, with Robert as the null; Gamma, Vedith, and myself are all scumreads.

And incidentally.

How many of those reads were before the players in question pushed him?
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Post Post #926 (isolation #54) » Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:47 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 918, Torque wrote:Actually now that there's gonna be a Mastina counterwagon, I'll just out that Mastina's hood posts are faaaaaaaaaaaar better than the ones she have here and I've been like waiting forever for her to raise her thread presence (yes I do admit having good hood presence but not thread presence is a little worrying) but I think when she does, she'll spew her alignment pretty well. take this information however you will
Ehhh actually I'd say that to an untrained eye they're better but to trained mastina people the 'hood posts are ten times worse than my content in here because...well.

They're content in there. :P

When I said in the 'hood that I'd mostly be shitposting in there, that was my expectation because that's what I do as town...except I didn't, and ended up doing actual game content. Might be time to share that, I'll give myself an iso parse to see if it's time to do that; kinda feel like it might be.
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Post Post #927 (isolation #55) » Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:49 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 924, Chito and Yuuri wrote:Chito: Mastina-chan you should join us on Vedith-kun
In post 923, mastina wrote:
In post 880, singletonking wrote:mastina, since you're scumreading Vedith and Pink Ball, why aren't you voting either?
You apparently didn't read right if you thought I was scumreading Vedith.
In post 656, mastina wrote:Vedith is, by far, the weakest, in that while I didn't think SSBF's content was good, I lack the meta familiarity to give context for his play, and Vedith here is harder to read but vaguely gives off some :goodvibes: overall. He's a compromise read more than anything else.
In post 654, mastina wrote:
In post 652, Chito and Yuuri wrote:Chito: Mastina, would you like to join our team and put your vote on Vedith?
Honestly my hopes aren't high that he'd be scum. Quite the opposite I kinda think he's town. I'll vote there to get a lynch, especially since we don't
need
to use every day on our deadline (it's a week away), but I just kinda feel like.
And my only reason to really vote Vedith is to get that lynch now, to end the day earlier rather than later.
So it's not that I won't join you, it's that I just would prefer not to.
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Post Post #937 (isolation #56) » Sat Feb 09, 2019 1:32 pm

Post by mastina »

Worth mentioning; I'm about 80% roleclaimed to my 'hood right now. Left out some details but it's mostly all out there. The Informed, the details of what I know, was what I shared first, but respectfully, that's one thing that
should
stay in the 'hood. I don't think my forwardness with my role really made me a townread there (if anything, the opposite), and my role certainly isn't an inherently town one, so it's not something which would paint bias.

What would, would be the content there, mostly in the form of reads, which were documented with evolution.

At the end of January,
Clemency
Drixx
Torque
Elena Fisher
BulletNLynchproof
Chito and Yuuri
Toogeloo
Robert2424
Flavor Leaf
Spike and Jet
Dunnstral
Almost50
Gamma Emerald
Super Smash Bros. Fan
Near x Mello
Asking for a friend
Joan of Arc
Reasonably Psychotic

This was my readslist. I clarified that I believed both miller claims, but didn't think that made them
inherently
town--because Tatsuya with Varsoon would be a mod to include a mafia miller, which mhsmith (who wouldn't do that himself) wouldn't stop them from doing. As such, I treated the claims as 100% truthful, but also 100% null. I then outlined that I townread Clemency, with BNL - to - Spike (or SSBF) being my nullzone; this was the first instance of me mentioning that my nullreads are disproportionately high on my readslist.

I clarified that Spike and above were my "don't want to lynch these yet", with Dunnstral-SSBF as "players I'd compromise-lynch".

Below SSBF you got the actual scumreads. For Asking for a friend, I was convinced that it was actually the worst posting that, and that it was him as scum. Joan, my vote was a joke based off of the signup thread (where I said I was a mason with Clemency and that Joan had scumslipped), but her in-game content especially her response to my vote made me think that she was genuinely scum. And Reasonably Psychotic, I pegged as essentially-soulread scum.

I promised to post it as soon as possible, with my reasons not to being that I was waiting for people to give me reactions to my antics, as much as possible, including the for real mason claim.

I engaged with Torque on said readslist; I insisted it was the worst who posted the entrance for the hydra, said I didn't know Joan's main (because at the time I didn't) and didn't care because I was reading things as I was seeing them, and said my readslist would be public within 48 hours. (Well...better late than never?)

The next day, starting February, I post to the neighborhood that I figured out Joan's main, that I once knew how to read her and had a tell but have since forgotten what it was. (Which, annoyingly, still persists. I used to have a tell to read her, but I still can't remember what it was and it might be lost to the depths of time permanently.) I laid out some generic facts about her; not as simple as active/not active although she does tend to be more active as one alignment, tends to be a little OMGUSy regardless of alignment (I'm actually proud of you Joan that this trait isn't visible this game!), she tends not to have fairly good language comprehension (I appreciate you, Joan, but you are prone to misunderstanding things <3), and said that if her identity was known everyone could be my sounding board for her, since most people have experience with her.

That generated a small change in my readslist:
Clemency
Torque
Elena Fisher
Drixx
Chito and Yuuri
BulletNLynchproof
Spike and Jet
Morality
Robert2424
Dunnstral
Almost50
Gamma Emerald
Super Smash Bros. Fan
Toogeloo
Joan of Arc
Near x Mello
Asking for a friend
Reasonably Psychotic

I then told Torque that they were right that they didn't deserve to be so high, again emphasizing that my readslist is fairly deceptive from the utter lack of a town core.
I had, and have, scumreads; I had, and have, nullreads; most players fell into the category of "not scumreading them" without much more yet not being nulls. I clarified for the first time that Clemency's a mid-tier townread (in spite of being my strongest townread); in a different game, he'd be second or third tiered town, it's just that this game made him top tier due to shitty read quality.

Torque is a step below at weak townread (in spite of being second strongest), and would be a tier below Clemency. Elena was a nulltown read, even lower than that.

In that same post, having seen that Joan said she was trying to better herself, the last reason I had to be suspicious of her faded, producing this as a readslist:
Clemency
Torque
Elena Fisher
Drixx
Chito and Yuuri
BulletNLynchproof
Spike and Jet
Morality
Robert2424
Joan of Arc
Dunnstral
Almost50
Gamma Emerald
Super Smash Bros. Fan
Toogeloo
Near x Mello
Asking for a friend
Reasonably Psychotic

In a follow-through post, I tried to break them down into tiers, but I stressed very hard that I absolutely LOATHED the idea.
Clemency

Torque

Elena Fisher
Drixx

Chito and Yuuri

BulletNLynchproof
Spike and Jet
Morality
Robert2424
Joan of Arc
Dunnstral
Almost50

Gamma Emerald
Super Smash Bros. Fan

Toogeloo

Near x Mello

Asking for a friend
Reasonably Psychotic

Chito/Yuuri I explained as being an ambivalent null with some town and some bad, with more good than bad.
The pile is a combination of nulls and "not scumreading".
Gamma and SSBF were weakly nullscum, as in "could be scum but are mostly null because probably aren't".

Toogeloo began the scumreads, with me pointing out that his entrance reeked of being scum. I admitted that my meta on him is a bit stale, which was the only reason he wasn't much, much lower on the list.

Near/Mello as a scumread has remained much the same the entire game: given that this is a hydra of WISDOM and KOKICHI OMA, their entire presence here is incredibly lackluster. (For a start, I'd expect them to have the highest post count, bar none, given that BOTH heads are prolific posters. They have a respectably high post count, one of the highest, but it's spread across two heads who should have that amount if not double BY THEMSELVES,
yet alone
, as a hydra of both. But there's also the content OF the posts.)

The Asking for a Friend scumread came from me not buying their posting as coming from a town-them. I explained it as a hypothesis that they rolled scum, and got sick of having rolled scum, so they tried whatever would work to make their alignment not be so miserable. (And when that failed, essentially ragequit because it was just Not Worth It.)

And later that day, I called Cerb a sleazeball. (Sorry if that word offends you, but I meant it as basically "dirty rotten scumbag" in being an obvious scum ploy essentially.) I even joked on rallying the troops, asking if I was the only one finding Cerb's request to verify the mason claim skeevy.

Then come February 5th, and we get me being in a bit of a rut: I was fully lucid and awake, but glossing over the thread as I read it. Nothing in my readslist was changing at all. I was doing nothing, even though I knew I needed to be doing something.

Super Smash Bros. Fan/Vedith
Toogeloo
Near x Mello
Asking for a friend/Pink Ball
Reasonably Psychotic

I said I'd vote any of those names, and that while I'd try to talk and engage and be constructive, I wasn't sure I could manage it.

On the 6th, my readslist was thus:
Clemency
Torque
Spike and Jet
Elena Fisher
Drixx
Chito and Yuuri
singletonking
Morality
Robert2424
Joan of Arc
Dunnstral
Almost50
Gamma Emerald
Super Smash Bros. Fan/Vedith
Asking for a friend/Pink Ball
Near x Mello
Toogeloo
Reasonably Psychotic

With the top three interchangeable at this point, with me now more comfortable calling Torque town.

On that same day, I went into my Pink Ball scumread in some detail. Basically, nothing the hydra did made me townread the slot; quite the opposite. I didn't want to be a dick about it, but as I indicated above, I outlined why I thought the replace-out was indicative of scum, frustrated at knowing the infuriating antics of the town players came from town players with the worst burned out from having played so many recent scumgames.

Then I outlined what you can call my first case on Pink Ball; he took abnormally long in his entrance to gather thoughts...and gave no reasoning whatsoever. I insisted his excuse was nothing more than that, since Drixx nailed it when stating giving reasons showing read progression is beneficial, something Pink Ball (an alt of a more experienced scummer) would definitely know.

The lack of reasons is something that is stupendously self-evident; hiding reasons makes it easier to fake reads, giving you more time to justify reads. Fitting reasons to the reads (what scum do) is easier if you hold out on giving the reasons for as long as is humanly possible, giving you time to compile, to justify, your stances that would normally be easily exposed as shitty stances fitting reasons to reads.

My go-to reference for Pink Ball is his performance here. He metadived players he wasn't familiar with and went out of his way to provide reasons the moment the RVS was ended--and actually played a huge part in ending said RVS in the first place.

That's the important stuff from there, Torque, unless you want to add anything I missed.
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Post Post #938 (isolation #57) » Sat Feb 09, 2019 1:35 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 930, Pink Ball wrote:I'm not scumreading Vedith
What's this, then?
In post 913, Pink Ball wrote:@Vedith you probably are scum after all
That seems like a pretty blatant scumread to me!
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Post Post #939 (isolation #58) » Sat Feb 09, 2019 1:47 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 934, Torque wrote:Mastina do you mind casing Cerb slot or something or have some sort of meta from him I can read through because i respect that thats where you want to lynch but it's a useless vote if you don't do something about it
Oh I hold no illusions about getting a Cerb lynch today. My vote's more of a statement than anything; the longer I can keep it there, the clearer my intent to follow through there will be. I don't have the energy to case him today (and by that I mean this day phase), to be honest; some things are just...more fatiguing than other things.

He's my strongest scumread, but I don't think I could ever get a lynch there on D1. If I had some support
prior to
me writing the case, then writing the case to get others on board with the idea would be worth it. But with no support prior to the case, even if I write the case, it won't garner the support necessary.

My efforts would be better spent casing Toogeloo or maybe, maybe, MAYBE Near x Mello. A Cerb scumteam pretty much never nightkills me N1 (frankly I'd be flabbergasted if a Cerb scumteam did; it
might
have happened
once
--need to double-check that--but if so that game's the exception to the general rule where he doesn't), so it's not a high-priority thing for me. I can write the case on any day prior to my nightkill, and I generally have a fairly decent sense of when I'll die.

I'm not gonna die N1 this game (unless to a lolvig), so I can afford to wait. Now, for players like Toogeloo though, I'd be happy to case them, though I don't have the energy to case him today (and by that I mean real life day). Cases are fatiguing regardless of on whom. A Cerb case is ten times more fatiguing than a Toogeloo case, but a Toogeloo case still is too much for me to manage today. (Did you know that Saturdays are
supposed
to be my rest day? My day off? I used to have a permanent V/LA on weekends where I wouldn't post much if I posted at all. There's good reason for that; I get burned out easily if I don't take the time off.)
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Post Post #962 (isolation #59) » Sun Feb 10, 2019 11:10 am

Post by mastina »

In post 941, Torque wrote:I just dunno, do I just suck now?
Enlightenment: the realization that your reads suck.
True enlightenment: the realization that your reads have
always
sucked, and that this is not a new trend.

:P

(Been there. <3)
In post 949, singletonking wrote:
In post 285, Drixx wrote:I can't really imagine a world where Mastina lists me as a near top town read on so few posts.
Is this your first game with Mastina?
No, but Drixx is used to me scumreading him when he's been scum. :P
(Prolly still a sensitive topic there, tho, so tread lightly; I mention it so others have a frame of reference but it should probably be left at that.)
In post 944, Drixx wrote:Mastina (if town) would know that the hood could be compromised.
mastina, as town, also treats 'hoods as masonries, mind you. A fact both you and Cerb know all too well. Didn't do that,
precisely
, this game, but have been doing it,
kind of
, this game.
In post 941, Torque wrote:The list of people I want to lynch is something like {Vedith, Gamma, Near x Mello, RP, Drixx, Pink Ball}
If we got a "one add, one subtract", our lists would be identical, with the name subtracted being Drixx and the name added being Toogeloo.

You don't need to convince me to vote Vedith; I'll vote there when deadline's within 48 hours or if I feel there's a strong compelling reason to end the day earlier than that.
In post 942, Pink Ball wrote:Oh nice so my suspicions that mastina was scumreading my predecessors and has seen everything coming from me as scum just because of that is true.
Nope! Feel free to misrep my case against you as that, but you've shown plenty of scum indicators yourself, not least of which is definitive proof your stances are made up on the spot, since you denied the Vedith scumread that you made less than 48 hours prior and you've offered no reasonable explanation for this. As just the latest sin.
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Post Post #964 (isolation #60) » Sun Feb 10, 2019 11:16 am

Post by mastina »

In post 961, Spike and Jet wrote:I give up trying to read mastina
Hey.
You know how to read me?
It NEVER goes obsolete.
Still applies to this very day, always has and always will. Never changes, never needs updating anymore, because it is just as valid now as the day I made it. If people made use of it more often, they'd never misread me.
In post 951, singletonking wrote:Disagree with Kokichi, I feel that their posting in mafia games have decreased sitewide overall.
Not in my experience? He's been receiving more prods, sure, and has been giving less content overall, true, but it's barely noticeable in most games overall. If his average posting rate were like three, four posts a day, then his rate now would be more like 2.5-3 a day. A minor drop--not the major one seen here.
In post 952, Near x Mello wrote:the one on me is very outdated too. Nowadays im only phoneposting and in this game ive already posted much more than i usually do
Not in my experience; my experience of you has you posting pretty much just as much as you normally do.

Maybe just as much as you normally do in a low-activity game for you, but still not noticeably less.

This game is noticeably less.
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Post Post #966 (isolation #61) » Sun Feb 10, 2019 11:22 am

Post by mastina »

In post 963, Pink Ball wrote:I fucking said "maybe you're scum after all", between that and a scumread there's a huge leap.
What am I supposed to interpret "maybe you're scum after all" as, if not an accusation that the slot is scum?

It's the same thing.

And even if it weren't--it's close enough that you should have had it on your mind. Making that accusation, if it were sincere, you'd remember it when I said you scumread the slot. At that point, you wouldn't need me to prod you; you'd already know, "oh she's referring to that, I should clarify it". Because if you were sincere in that accusation, you'd know how it could be construed as a scumread, because no fucking shit, it's an obvious conclusion to reach. If you say someone might be scum afterall, it figures that people are going to assume you're scumreading them.

My point is
you didn't have it on your mind at all
.
You didn't have the thought of the Vedith accusation on your mind, at all, not one bit. If you had, you'd have known about what I was referring to. And by showing the lack of knowledge about it, you showed how the accusation was insincere. It wasn't genuine; it was faked. Because if it were real, then you wouldn't have forgotten about it in less than 48 hours. Less than 24 hours, actually.
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Post Post #968 (isolation #62) » Sun Feb 10, 2019 11:25 am

Post by mastina »

In post 965, Pink Ball wrote:Like, if you really knew something about me, you would know that I love being scum and I would make much more effort and would be motivated as fuck to win against you, but you just made town!PB get mad by not letting him play the game as a different individual than their predecessors.
Keep construing the scumread as one on your predecessors all you like; it doesn't make it any more true. I have even more reason to scumread you than I ever did for the hydra you replaced--in fact, I was quite willing to believe I was entirely off-base with my beliefs on the hydra.

I had reasons for scumreading them, yes.

But you had what amounted to a blank slate of sorts--and then you scummed it up anyway. I'm not scumreading your slot; I'm scumreading YOU. I was scumreading your predecessor, and that
strengthens
the scumread on you, but it is not the basis of it.
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Post Post #972 (isolation #63) » Sun Feb 10, 2019 11:32 am

Post by mastina »

To show what I mean:
In post 913, Pink Ball wrote:@Vedith I'm not being inconsistent. mastina decided to go full aggro on me and I'm tired of it, so don't try misrep me there. You were also waiting to vote me whenever you had the chance, so I'm not surprised and you probably are scum after all
In post 930, Pink Ball wrote:I'm not scumreading Vedith, and I started scumreading you and Gamma when I replaced in. You were pushing Alisae, not me. Misrep at it's finest
These posts are literally eight hours apart.

Saying Vedith is probably scum after all.
And then, after I said he was scumreading Vedith, claiming that he wasn't--without one thought given to the earlier post, made eight hours prior? Less than a page apart? Topic Review shows the last 25 posts in the game thread; he literally could see in topic review when he wrote they're so close together. Close together in posts, close together in time. And he doesn't think at all about 913 being where I got the idea he was scumreading Vedith?

He doesn't clarify it at all?

He doesn't mention it?

Why didn't he make the connection?

It was something incredibly recent. INCREDIBLY recent, and incredibly visible. So if his read were sincere, if the accusation was genuine...why didn't he remember it and connect the dots?
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Post Post #974 (isolation #64) » Sun Feb 10, 2019 11:35 am

Post by mastina »

In post 971, Pink Ball wrote:Sure, that's why you had them as top 2 scumreads and after I replaced I was 4.
That proves my point?

That
was
the blank slate.

Also scumreading Toogeloo more and scumreading Near x Mello more, but that's more Toogeloo's continued scumposting and Near/Mello's continued lack of oomph, for lack of a better term.
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Post Post #978 (isolation #65) » Sun Feb 10, 2019 11:45 am

Post by mastina »

In post 973, Pink Ball wrote:And it's not the same thing, you saying "how should I interpret it?" proves it: it's a fucking interpretation that you did, biased, and I'm telling you it's not what you think and it's my word against yours, and my word is more valid since it's me who said it: I'm not scumreading Vedith. Do you need it written in bigger and colorful letters? Or maybe I should put it in my signature so you can read it every time I post something
You seem to be missing my point.
My point isn't that you're scumreading Vedith.

My point is that you didn't even REMEMBER that post where you made the accusation against Vedith--and when I said you were scumreading Vedith, you
should
have, because of the almost immediate nature of the posts in question and the obvious logical leap.

You didn't think, "oh mastina must be thinking of my ". You didn't think of 913 at all. You just said you weren't. Which showed you hadn't thought of it.

My point is.

Why didn't you?

If your 913 were a sincere thought, why didn't you have that very same thought in mind in 930?
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Post Post #980 (isolation #66) » Sun Feb 10, 2019 11:50 am

Post by mastina »

In post 975, Pink Ball wrote:you literally said that you have more reasons to scumread me than Alisae. That contradicts your point.
No, it doesn't.

I have more reasons to scumread you--but you still had the blank slate.

There's no contradiction there.

I have been quite clear, consistently, that you've been my weakest scumread--if I were carrying through the prior holder of the slot as you're accusing me of, then you'd still be there as second-strongest. Except you're not, because in spite of my read being strengthened by my scumread of them and in spite of having more reasons to scumread you than I ever did them, you still got the blank slate.

The fact you're not the second-strongest scumread proves that you got the blank slate; the fact that I am still scumreading your slot is because I have more reasons to scumread you than I did them. These augment one another; they don't contradict each other.
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Post Post #982 (isolation #67) » Sun Feb 10, 2019 11:52 am

Post by mastina »

In post 979, Pink Ball wrote:What the fuck are you talking about, what of "I'm not scumreading Vedith" makes you think that I not remember me saying "maybe you're scum after all".
Because if you were town, then you would have realized that you saying "maybe you're scum after all" was why I thought you had a scumread on Vedith. And with you realizing that I thought you had a scumread on Vedith from 913, you'd clarify in 930 what you meant, right then and there--

NOT after I called you out on it, and then when you ignored said initial callout, REcalled you out on it.
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Post Post #986 (isolation #68) » Sun Feb 10, 2019 11:58 am

Post by mastina »

In post 981, Pink Ball wrote:You made assumptions that go beyond reality. You're assuming that I should've posted "oh no I didn't mean that I was scumreading him", when me saying "I'm not scumreading him" is along those exact same lines.
Except no, they aren't--not even remotely.

Saying you're not scumreading him ignores 913 because it doesn't acknowledge 913 exists at all. In what realm am I supposed to know that "oh I'm not scumreading him" translates to "oh 913 wasn't me scumreading him"? Because if you meant the latter...why the fuck didn't you say it? It's a few words extra, most, but BAM, clarity, right then and there, point addressed before it's an issue.

And then I called you out on it--a perfect chance for you to clarify it right then and there. A bit late to the punch, sure, but at least you'd be able to have seen where I was coming from initially and clarify it early.

And you ignored it. So I re-called you out on it.

And that's been a consistent trend from you this whole time.

I've pointed out the scum from you.
You've brushed it off at first.
And then only when I made a bigger deal of it do you address it.
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Post Post #998 (isolation #69) » Sun Feb 10, 2019 12:54 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 995, Drixx wrote:Smite and SU2 are the notable times I was scum (although she and others point to Nahdia's Civilization even though I replaced out due to fatigue/conflict during Night 1).
You also forgot that one SC game where you were scum with Ankamius and TheMonkeyman with an SK TWIE who killed me N2. (This was the game I had to look up to verify that Cerb hadn't killed me N1.)
In post 995, Drixx wrote:Mastina didn't make any posts in the game prior to me killing her in SMITE that noted she believed I was scum. Post game there was a lot of "I would have caught you!" talk but there's no evidence to back that up. I will note that I could not have won the way I did if Mastina had remained in the game: I literally told another player to go look in a specific place for evidence of my guilt. That player (and the rest of the game) assumed I would never point someone to my guilt and basically cleared me for it. Mastina would have looked.
These two are intricately linked--I would have looked, and by having looked, caught you. I also wasn't blindly trusting your claim; I was trying to set up circumstances to verify your claim, because if you had an opportunity to verify your claim and then didn't...confscum. I had no reason to ever scumhunt your slot because I had no reason to disbelieve the claim at that point in time.
In post 995, Drixx wrote:Mastina admitted in SU2 that there was no real reason to believe we were scum (Cerb and me in hydra)
Oh I am absolutely sure I never said that.
In post 995, Drixx wrote:and it was a toss up
Pretty sure I didn't say this exactly, though I am also pretty sure I said something similar but with a definitively different meaning; "almost a tossup, 51/49" or something to that effect, as I seem to recall.
In post 995, Drixx wrote:and she would rather lose with us than TO us
This I definitely did say tho. Remains true! Given the strength of my points, I knew I'd regret it more if I lost to you than if I lost with you.

Basically I raised a LOT of good points, but I know just as well as anyone that just because a point is good, does not mean a point is
right
. The debate wasn't whether there were reasons for you to be scum--there were--but rather, whether those reasons were accurate. That? That was the near-tossup.

Incidentally I PMed the mod with why this actually bears some relevancy to this game.
In post 995, Drixx wrote:The pace of this game feels really off.
Well that's what you get when all the players who should be posting up a storm, aren't.
In post 996, Torque wrote:All I'm getting out of this entire interaction is Vedith is probably town unless Vedith and Pink Ball are both wolves because he doesn't have any motivation to say his counterwagon is a town when Pink Ball has this much pressure on him currently
This may surprise you but my take is actually the opposite; Vedith taking the stance that Pink Ball-mastina's TvT in the way he did was actually a
blow
to his already-sparse towncred for me...
...And if he's scum, it's because Pink Ball isn't.

Vedith-Pink Ball here is never scum-scum to me.
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Post Post #1024 (isolation #70) » Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:38 am

Post by mastina »

In post 1001, Toogeloo wrote:I also get the distinct feeling that Night 2 is a big night for a lot of people's roles.
Actually, that'd be N3.
In post 1002, Reasonably Psychotic wrote:Also, in SU2 you really did express a lot of complete bewilderment about what the right choice was.
Yep, sure did!
As mad as you and Drixx are that I spent that much time on it only to ultimately vote you when that was my first instinct, tho. Can you say that my current policy of pretty much instavoting is better? :P
In post 1002, Reasonably Psychotic wrote:Also also...can you please tell me what game you were referring to where you had to check if I had killed you on whatever night it was, where TWIE was an SK?
That'd be this game. I called you scum, correctly, for most of the game, and died asking for your slot to be investigated. Surprised you don't remember it, since that game was one of the main games I used in my meta for pushing you as scum in SU2; my later uncertainty in SC's game gave me some of the confidence I was right in SU2.
In post 1013, Vedith wrote:Getting mixed up on setup or roles etc when in multiple games is not strange.
It is when one of them is a UPick which by its very nature is VTless.
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Post Post #1085 (isolation #71) » Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:36 am

Post by mastina »

Hey guys. Snowmageddon struck again. With 16 inches, and counting (still snowing), power (thus, internet) is out.

I did promise to do this while we got under 48 hours tho:
Vote: Vedith
.
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Post Post #1086 (isolation #72) » Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:40 am

Post by mastina »

Also, Drixx wagon is horribad.
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Post Post #1166 (isolation #73) » Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:50 am

Post by mastina »

In post 1088, Almost50 wrote:@Gamma & @Pink Ball: Your recent votes suck big time. VOTE: mastina needs more votes on her
Says the guy who makes a recent vote that sucks big time. :P
In post 1114, Morality wrote:
In post 1113, Morality wrote:I don’t want Drixx, Mastina, Vedith, or Gamma today.
VOTE: Pink Ball
I might be wrong on one of them, but I don’t think more than one from that group is scum, and eventually figuring that out can be a major boon to the town. With a day left, I don’t want to sit on Not Voting.
I can tell you Drixx is town, so the real question would be Vedith/Gamma. I can tell you I
believe
Gamma's town and I don't have that same townread on Vedith, but I can't say that's a strong read.
In post 1126, Pink Ball wrote:I'd rather be lynched over Vedith. That way you guys will focus on real scum, like Gamma who's vote on me is basically a scumclaim
Okay, so you think Gamma's scum.
Who else is?
In post 1132, Near x Mello wrote:I can also vote drixx if he gains more traction
gamma and pink I'd rather not
AKA, "I'll vote the players who are certainly town, but I'm not going to vote the players who could be scum". :shifty:
In post 1099, Near x Mello wrote:stop scumreading us pls
Then stop being scum. :P
In post 1140, singletonking wrote:^Possibly scum regardless of Vedith's alignment ()
I mean.

Won't hear any disagreement from me!
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Post Post #1180 (isolation #74) » Wed Feb 13, 2019 8:27 am

Post by mastina »

In post 1174, Torque wrote:His claim is from a 2007 show and i could be wrong but the sequel isnt after 2010 either
Also, if you recall:
Subject: Anime U-Pick: King Size [FULL! PM TO REPLACEMENT/SPECTATE]
mastina wrote:Question.
In post 0, Tatsuya Kaname wrote:Note that any anime that is a sequel to those that aired before 2010 is not allowed (sorry Sailor Moon Crystal and UQ Holder fans).
Can I loophole abuse this with a prequel? :P
Subject: Anime U-Pick: King Size [FULL! PM TO REPLACEMENT/SPECTATE]
mastina wrote:Also question.
Is an anime that's a different adaption of the same source material eligible? That being, an older anime is for the material, but there's a new anime for the same source material which isn't picking up where the old one left off and is starting from scratch?
Subject: Anime U-Pick: King Size [FULL! PM TO REPLACEMENT/SPECTATE]
Tatsuya Kaname wrote:
In post 32, mastina wrote:Question.
In post 0, Tatsuya Kaname wrote:Note that any anime that is a sequel to those that aired before 2010 is not allowed (sorry Sailor Moon Crystal and UQ Holder fans).
Can I loophole abuse this with a prequel? :P
Prequel and sequel is merely the same thing. :P
In post 33, mastina wrote:Also question.
Is an anime that's a different adaption of the same source material eligible? That being, an older anime is for the material, but there's a new anime for the same source material which isn't picking up where the old one left off and is starting from scratch?
As long as myanimelist.net doesn't identify that as a sequel/prequel/whatever, then fine, you can use it.
This seems relevant.
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Post Post #1181 (isolation #75) » Wed Feb 13, 2019 8:30 am

Post by mastina »

In other words, This is what the mod said they'd use. That search is what the mod would see.
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Post Post #1182 (isolation #76) » Wed Feb 13, 2019 8:33 am

Post by mastina »

And, yes.
Premiered: Fall 2007
Aired: Jul 16, 2008
Premiered: Fall 2008
Aired: Jul 1, 2009
Aired: Sep 15, 2007

Not a single one of those is 2010 or later; the latest of them was 2009.
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Post Post #1206 (isolation #77) » Wed Feb 13, 2019 9:28 am

Post by mastina »

In post 1205, Vedith wrote:Drixx is never scum here.
No fucking shit.
In post 1199, Drixx wrote:I would prefer what I view as the more difficult and dangerous slot.
And Cerb wonders why I was voting him.
In post 1201, Spike and Jet wrote:if vedith fluffed up this bad as town and let scum get away then sucks for us
Oh scum were getting away no matter what considering none of our wagons today have been on scum.
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Post Post #1242 (isolation #78) » Wed Feb 13, 2019 3:16 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 1208, Reasonably Psychotic wrote:I don't wonder why you're voting me. If you're town, as I feel you likely are, then it makes sense to keep constant pressure on me over nearly anyone else in this game.
Oh?

Then why's your "one thing holding back from full townread" that I'm pushing a scumread of you?
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Post Post #1243 (isolation #79) » Wed Feb 13, 2019 3:17 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 940, Reasonably Psychotic wrote:The fact that she knows a lynch on a slot I'm occupying on D1 is unlikely is the *only* reason why I have any doubt about my town read on her.
Like.

This is pretty blatantly the opposite of what you said in ?
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Post Post #1244 (isolation #80) » Wed Feb 13, 2019 3:18 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 1214, Almost50 wrote:My vote was already on you from before. I meant to
bold
"mastina needs more votes on her" but I used v instead of b by mistake
Doesn't change my statement that your vote was recent, and sucked big time. :P
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Post Post #1245 (isolation #81) » Wed Feb 13, 2019 3:20 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 1238, singletonking wrote:On another note I wonder why he got lynched without the mod answering my question, and I for some reason disliked Torque's vote
You shouldn't, since it was a Torque/mastina combo pressure which resulted in the lynch without the answer. :P

(Basically, Torque half-proved Vedith was faking, I sealed the deal.)
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Post Post #1246 (isolation #82) » Wed Feb 13, 2019 3:22 pm

Post by mastina »

(Still don't think Vedith's flipping scum, by the way. Just, think he's the lynch candidate who gave us the best chances of flipping scum.)
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Post Post #1261 (isolation #83) » Fri Feb 15, 2019 7:11 pm

Post by mastina »

Btw my channel was incredibly active last night, got lots of content hashed out.

My current readslist:
Torque
Spike and Jet
Asking for a friend/Pink Ball
Clemency
Elena Fisher
Chito and Yuuri
singletonking
Gamma Emerald
Morality
Robert2424
Joan of Arc
Dunnstral
Almost50
Near x Mello
Toogeloo
Reasonably Psychotic

VOTE: Reasonably Psychotic.

Not sure where to begin on neighborhood content, but if not Reasonably Psychotic, best vote is Near/Mello (since it's easy enough to test Toogeloo's fragile-N2 claim).
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Post Post #1262 (isolation #84) » Fri Feb 15, 2019 7:15 pm

Post by mastina »

Also.
In post 1258, Toogeloo wrote:Chito and Yurri
Near x Mello
Robert2424
Toogeloo
Vedith / SSBF
Literally the only member of that channel I wouldn't lynch is Chito/Yuuri. Wouldn't lynch Robert except as a last-resort, but I would because he's one of those "just...kinda......
there
" reads which usually contain
some
scum, thus willingness to do so. (So basically, not a scumread, but not untouchable, either.)
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Post Post #1264 (isolation #85) » Fri Feb 15, 2019 7:27 pm

Post by mastina »

To give some thoughts:
hard-spews many players. It spews Toogeloo as a scum partner to me (I got disagreement there), spews BNL/singleton as town, weakly Joan as town (not a strong as BNL/singleton town), and weakly Reasonably Psychotic as scum (not as strongly as Toogeloo).

hard-clears Almost50 as town (whoops, forgot to move him up on my readslist :oops: ), and is blatantly scum bussing.

General consensus is that is incredibly towndriven, especially everyone from Drixx and earlier. The one name looking like a bus is Near/Mello. We did some more math/debating on VCA beyond that, with my analysis differing from Torque's; my thought was scum in the lesser, more vanityesque wagons, more than on the counterwagon. Or more specifically, my thought was "if you combine identically-sized wagons--including not voting--you get wagons sized at six, and thar be scum", pretty much.

For instance, in VC 11:
TWOWAGONS - 6 (Toogeloo, Pink Ball, Elena Fisher, Dunnstral, singletonking, Reasonably Psychotic)
^I said 1-2 scum in there, with Pink Ball as hard town and singletonking as decently town.

Also, was blatantly an attempt from Toogeloo to save his scumbuddy.

Went into some details on Reasonably Psychotic beyond that, but for now, want to hold back on those somewhat.

As a start.
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Post Post #1265 (isolation #86) » Fri Feb 15, 2019 7:28 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 1263, Gamma Emerald wrote:Why is Near X Mello scum?
Aside from this being their scumplay?
Their play is blatantly that of a Vedith scumbuddy.
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Post Post #1266 (isolation #87) » Fri Feb 15, 2019 7:30 pm

Post by mastina »

Torque
Spike and Jet
Asking for a friend/Pink Ball
Chito and Yuuri
Clemency
singletonking
Elena Fisher
Almost50
Gamma Emerald
Joan of Arc
Morality
Robert2424
Dunnstral
Near x Mello
Toogeloo
Reasonably Psychotic

This is probably a more accurate readslist. Note that Robert is much lower on this one--but that's more an accurate reflection of my real read there, I feel.

Everyone from Joan above, I have some rather compelling reasons to not lynch. While from about Elena down these reasons aren't as strong as I prefer, they
exist
, enough that I have a fairly small lynchpool that I am highly confident contains the scum.
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Post Post #1267 (isolation #88) » Fri Feb 15, 2019 7:37 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 1266, mastina wrote:Torque
Spike and Jet
Asking for a friend/Pink Ball
Chito and Yuuri

Clemency
singletonking
Elena Fisher

Almost50
Gamma Emerald
Joan of Arc

Morality
Robert2424
Dunnstral

Near x Mello
Toogeloo
Reasonably Psychotic
Heck now I can actually give tiers to my readslist and not feel shitty about it. Top-tier is townbloc; locktown reads that are never scum this game, ever. (Pink Ball, I typed out in a PM to the mod--which I paraphrased and posted to the PT once N1 hit--for why my push on you was one gigantic reaction test; you passed, Vedith more or less failed. More complicated than that, but that's the short version of it.)

Second tier are strong townreads, who
could
be scum but are incredibly unlikely to be.

Third tier are townreads that have good backing to them, moderate strength, but aren't infallible altogether.

Fourth tier's "this is the group of meh players--I'm not scumreading them, but these probably contain a scum (or maybe two) statistically speaking".

And fifth tier's my actual scumreads--where there's probably a misread (or two) in there, but otherwise contains solidly scum players who I am HARD scumreading.

Short of a cop guilty, I'm never lynching anyone from the third tier and above any time soon, so we've got an effective lynch pool of pretty much six players. Less if you townread someone, more if you really wanna argue I'm townreading someone I shouldn't be, but I do feel I have fairly good reasons for these reads!
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Post Post #1269 (isolation #89) » Fri Feb 15, 2019 7:51 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 1268, Dunnstral wrote:
In post 1267, mastina wrote:so we've got an effective lynch pool of pretty much six players.
Correction: You've got an effective lynch pool of six players, the rest of us will do whatever we want
Which will be lynching within those six players because the game was all-but solved from how D1 played out.
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Post Post #1270 (isolation #90) » Fri Feb 15, 2019 7:55 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 1269, mastina wrote:
In post 1268, Dunnstral wrote:
In post 1267, mastina wrote:so we've got an effective lynch pool of pretty much six players.
Correction: You've got an effective lynch pool of six players, the rest of us will do whatever we want
Which will be lynching within those six players because the game was all-but solved from how D1 played out.
Btw while I have somewhat cased my scumreads already, what I'd find easier to do honestly is the opposite--

One by one, have people ask me about the townreads there and have me walk through them for why they're town, and thus, why the POE pool is those six players (with three as scumreads, three as meh-reads).

Because I can, and will, defend each and every single one of those townreads right now. They all pretty much feel ~right~ to me.
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Post Post #1272 (isolation #91) » Fri Feb 15, 2019 11:00 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 1271, Near x Mello wrote:Elena, Robert, Morality
Thats the result of my reread
VOTE: Elena
~Near
If I were feeling hypocritical, I'd rule of three guess Robert as the scum in there. :shifty:
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Post Post #1274 (isolation #92) » Fri Feb 15, 2019 11:23 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 1273, Near x Mello wrote:Talk to me about why you got Elena so high
Sure. That's actually one of the less evidence-based reads, though. I also confess that the meta there is less-than-stellar; my Elena readrate is like 55-60/40-45 range; not much better than random, if that. It is, mostly, very strong gut feelings, and I think it is based on an instinctual residual memory of her meta playstyle from when I had a much higher accuracy rate at reading her. (It keeps going down; it used to be like 90% and has steadily declined over the course of games.)

I can explain where I am coming from, though.

It basically comes from a lack of scum perspective.

Elena is not very active--this could be due to a scum motive of (active) lurking, to avoid the spotlight, avoid making waves, avoid really putting herself in danger of needing to explain herself or something like that...but when I look at what she has given and what she hasn't given, I'm left with the impression she simply isn't aiming for that. It doesn't look deliberate. It doesn't look planned, it doesn't look like her agenda is to try that. It looks like she is simply, genuinely, not high-efforting.

And that is more in line with what I know of her townplay, more or less. When she is scum, she tends to have a little tryhard in her. She places a high priority on looking town, throughout the game. She does whatever she needs to, in order to make herself look like she's town. And that is pretty much absent; there's nothing I see from her which looks forced, which looks like a grab for towncred. She is what she is, and it's nothing more than that.

I suppose you could say she struck the perfect balance of the town zone for her as I expect it to be: enough genuine thoughts and effort that it doesn't look like she's scum active lurking, but also not enough effort and townness that it looks like she's scum trying to grab the towncred. But I'd be lying if I said that this reasoning, this logic, alone would contribute to the strength of the read alone; like I said, the rest of it is mostly gut.

I simply have a strong feeling she's not scum, and I'm not going to revisit that for a long, long, LONG time.
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Post Post #1275 (isolation #93) » Fri Feb 15, 2019 11:25 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 1274, mastina wrote:Elena is not very active--this could be due to a scum motive of (active) lurking, to avoid the spotlight, avoid making waves, avoid really putting herself in danger of needing to explain herself or something like that...but when I look at what she has given and what she hasn't given, I'm left with the impression she simply isn't aiming for that. It doesn't look deliberate. It doesn't look planned, it doesn't look like her agenda is to try that. It looks like she is simply, genuinely, not high-efforting.
Mind you, I'm sure someone would point out "that could be her real life interfering", but to my knowledge, Elena has not been in any way shape nor form V/LA or otherwise busy/incapacitated/etc. As far as I know, there's been nothing hindering her at all. So it's not really possible that real life, non-alignment-indicative, conditions contribute here.
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Post Post #1277 (isolation #94) » Fri Feb 15, 2019 11:31 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 1276, Near x Mello wrote:i see. Thats basically the reason I scumread her. When she is town she will do things I wont like and I will consider manipulative and such and I will end up scumreading her. Here she is quiet and has basically done nothing.
I used to have her be readable by the same model as me:
"If she looks town, she's scum; if she looks scum, she's town".

Experience has taught me it's not that simple anymore.
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Post Post #1427 (isolation #95) » Sat Feb 16, 2019 12:35 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 1298, Near x Mello wrote:mastina's reads are pretty good but far from flawless. She is prone to tunneling.
Yes to the first, no to the second. I firmly believe that I've got the right six as my poe pool, half being scum--but I do fully admit that the half I'm naming as scum may not exclusively be it.
In post 1278, Near x Mello wrote:My other disagreements with your readlist are Dunn, who should be way higher as this is town Dunn, and Joan, who is another spewed town by both her vote and the way SSBF pushed her
Joan's already high? Can't make her be too much higher than she is, because I hold enough respect for her effort to improve and talent as scum. (That said, her recent posts do look like town-her.)

Dunnstral is probably a little low, yes, and I know the meta just as well as you do, I'm just not putting much blind faith in it. I
want
to, but I can't.
In post 1286, Near x Mello wrote:its my weakest townread but i feel like hes trying to do things and also some interactions with vedith feel weird if scum/scum
Actually those same interactions contribute to my scumread. Plus "trying to do things" is far from a towntell from Cerb. If anything, the opposite.
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Post Post #1430 (isolation #96) » Sat Feb 16, 2019 12:46 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 1319, Toogeloo wrote:Lets not overlook the fact that mastina basically thinks the entirety of the scum team exists in Channel 5. Yep, that's good scum hunting right thar.
Neighborhoods are, explicitly, tied to character flavor--something picked prior to the game's start.
Alignments were rolled randomly.

If the players who rolled scum mostly/all had similar flavor, why wouldn't they be together in a neighborhood?
In post 1322, Toogeloo wrote:I mean, I just want to understand correctly here. She thinks that, I as scum Day 1 I outed the entire Channel 5 which consists mostly of scum. Seems smart.
As just discussed, neighborhood membership is not alignment indicative, and your neighborhood does contain at least one town player. (And realistically, yes, I realize, probably more than one.) Outing neighborhoods is a move that can be done for the towncred, as a move which seems like it would be townread for. Same, really, for you claiming your role as you have. Nothing about the move makes it town.

Also, if most of the scum are in one 'hood, and limited to others.

Who benefits more from claiming the 'hoods?

As a hypothetical here.

If scum are entirely out of at least one or two neighborhoods, they are in the dark about memberships and whatnot.

So they would want to...not be in the dark anymore. Claiming THEIR OWN hood is a way to facilitate the idea of OTHERS claiming their neighborhood, so there's some scum motivation there as well.
In post 1300, Near x Mello wrote:and you're talking to someone who was tunneled by town mastina for a whole game while town
Not the whole game; I came around to townreading your replacement.
In post 1303, Pink Ball wrote:She was wrong about me on D1, I know that for a fact. Why should I trust her
Because that push wasn't me pushing you as scum?

I pushed you to get a townread on you, more or less, and also to generate a more accurate view of the game--Vedith, for instance, took a nosedive towncred-wise when he insisted our bout was TvT in the way he did, as I pointed out in our neighborhood (Torque can confirm we debated this) and also in-thread. Can point to my hints if you'd like, which're there for you to see in hindsight. Aside from the message to the mod, I left subtle evidence of this fact present.
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Post Post #1440 (isolation #97) » Sat Feb 16, 2019 12:57 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 1338, Reasonably Psychotic wrote:she was 1) wrong on vedith(not enough strength in her suspicion of the slot to give her any credit)
Funny story that, went into this in the neighborhood in great detail. I both was, and was not, wrong on Vedith.

I was not expecting him to flip scum; I was wrong.
I was expecting him to be the lynch candidate with the
highest chance
of flipping scum; I was right, he had a much higher chance of flipping scum than Drixx, Pink Ball, or Gamma (among others) did.

The full rambles on the subject is in the neighborhood and isn't really game relevant tho (if it was I'd have brought it up), so best not to focus on it since it'd be more of a distraction.

I will say, however, that I fully, genuinely, believe that the Vedith flip pretty much solves the game by giving us the amount of info it did.

I've already conceded that the three players I'm scumreading might not all be scum, but I still think we should lynch in the pool of six regardless with my scumreads as the preferred ones, because I think that my scumread pool has at least one scum minimum (even if it's not all three). Toogeloo has an easily-tested mortality claim (if he lives to see D3, he is auto-lynched), leaving five others for today. That is either a 2/5 chance of hitting scum or a 3/5 chance at hitting scum (depending on if Toogeloo is town or scum).

Who it is isn't actually that important; my Reasonably Psychotic vote is mostly just personal preference at this point off of my scumread there.
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Post Post #1447 (isolation #98) » Sat Feb 16, 2019 1:07 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 1351, Reasonably Psychotic wrote:mastina LITERALLY stated she would rather lose with Drixx and I than lose TO us, which is essentially the purest expression of ego over victory I've ever seen.
That was not ego, that was a gesture of respect, the opposite of ego. I said that because of how WELL you played, that I would deserve the blame if wrong and you wouldn't deserve the blame, basically. (Ego = "if I'm right, I get credit; if I'm wrong, not my fault", that was "If I'm wrong, it's my fault".)
In post 1366, Chito and Yuuri wrote:Are we allowed to agree with Mastina about things without sheeping her
Depends on the degree with which you're agreeing. :P

Not agreeing with the scumreads but agreeing with the general poe for instance, totally fine!
Not having those exact six but having an almost identical pool of similar players, also fine!

In fact, those are the types of conversations that are
best
to have. My poe pool I don't think has any flaws in it, but I'm not infallible so it could be; would be happy to discuss any of the reads in OR out of it. (The ones out are easier tho.) Thus my offer to challenge me on any of those reads and explain them. Took the offer up on Elena; more than happy to continue with anyone else.
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Post Post #1450 (isolation #99) » Sat Feb 16, 2019 1:17 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 1411, Reasonably Psychotic wrote:Also, for those of you who are just sheeping mastina without having independent thoughts of your own: Consider where you're going to go after a lynch occurs on this slot
Easy.
Toogeloo if he survives.
Someone else in the poe pool if he doesn't.

And depending on your flip and Toogeloo's flip.

We have anywhere from 0-2 scum flips and 0-2 town flips to further hone in on exact scumteam combinations.

Right now, with six possible candidates, it's a little tricky to figure out which scumteam combos are the most probable. Even in the worst-case scenario where there's only four possible candidates for three scum slots...well, then, the game becomes "find the townie in the poe pool" more than it does "find the scum in the poe pool".

Like I said, order doesn't matter that much. My order right now would probably be Reasonably Psychotic > Toogeloo > Robert > Morality > Near/Mello and only if that doesn't win the game > Dunnstral.

This, not accounting for how PRs can potentially speed things along. A vig can take out a non-Toogeloo person; Toogeloo should die from actions targeting him N2; investigatives can potentially help clear/condemn people in this pool, and while roles aren't infallible, they can help tighten the noose since we can PLAUSIBLY reason on things like Godfathers, Ninjas, etc.
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Post Post #1452 (isolation #100) » Sat Feb 16, 2019 1:28 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 1439, Spike and Jet wrote:can we stop talking about the channels now, scum flipped a role that literally gets extra powers based on flavour
Pretty sure there's neither a channel for "all females" nor a channel for "all have abilities which target females", because I'd be in both of those and yet I'm only in the one, which had a different criteria.
In post 1433, Near x Mello wrote:exactly, meaning you tunnel on people and I had to be replaced in order for you to come around.
No, I didn't come around on MathBlade for quite some time, and when I did it wasn't because of him being him, specifically, that I did so; I'd have come around if it were you just as easily.
In post 1432, Gamma Emerald wrote:mastina, what do YOU make of Joan's insistence you're "always right"?
She's not right, but she's most likely town from it.
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Post Post #1454 (isolation #101) » Sat Feb 16, 2019 1:30 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 1451, Spike and Jet wrote:are we believing toogs universal mortality thing? i kinda read it as a pgo claim
We're certainly testing it. He lives, we lynch him. I don't think he's a PGO; if he's lying, it'd be more likely to be a nexus role of some kind, more than worth testing and fairly risk-free, harmless, in doing so.
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Post Post #1508 (isolation #102) » Sat Feb 16, 2019 6:30 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 1473, Chito and Yuuri wrote:Chito:
@Mastina
, I'm having a hard time making sense of your read on Gamma.
What's there not to get?

Gamma was in my poe pool yesterday; she's not in it today, because the Vedith flip reduced her odds of being scum; there's some townspewing present indicating she's town, which was absent yesterday.

You have to understand my poe pool yesterday was never a scumread pool; my reads wildly fluctuated on the people within. I had reasons to believe Vedith was scum and at times thought he might be, even though I had reasons to think he was town and ultimately thought he was. That same back-and-forth applied to Gamma, but has since solidified into town.
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Post Post #1509 (isolation #103) » Sat Feb 16, 2019 6:35 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 1493, Gamma Emerald wrote:Talk about why?
Because Joan firmly believes she can trust me, sheep me, etc. She genuinely thinks that as town, and it is NOT a thought process that would occur to her as scum. She would be AFRAID of me as scum, and wouldn't be trying to sheep me, knowing that I pay close attention to those who sheep me looking for warning signs that they are scum.
In post 1482, Toogeloo wrote:Only scum target me tonight.
No, only scum are afraid to be targeted when claiming the fragile modifier openly.
In post 1499, Toogeloo wrote:Mastina is just lining up my death regardless. If I don't die tonight, I'm going to be death tunneled all day tomorrow by her.
Rightly so! Because you claimed a fucking role that is meant to die N2. And if you don't die N2...why the fuck not.
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Post Post #1516 (isolation #104) » Sat Feb 16, 2019 8:28 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 1513, Chito and Yuuri wrote:Chito: Can you be more specific about the townspewing from Vedith town that has made you townread her?
Well aside from Gamma being a counterwagon: I don't think Vedith says this about a scum partner, for a start. If he were actually scumbuddies with Gamma, then this would draw a connection between the two, leading me to think it unlikely.

Vedith put a lot of time and effort into saying he wasn't going to vote Gamma, going out of his way to defend her. Given that Vedith probably knew there was a decent chance he'd be lynched, that reeks of setting up a mislynch rather than defending a scumbuddy. He was always the wagon dominant over her own.

Gamma's iso you can make a case either way; if you want to show the scumbuddy half of it I can counter with the not-scumbuddy half of it, and I'd rate them at roughly equal parity in strength so while I can understand a scumread there I disagree overall. She's far from a top tier townread, but she
is
a townread.
In post 1510, Almost50 wrote:I'm going to have to step in right now to say: You type a LOT, read little, and comprehend nothing.
Funny that sounds an awful lot like what you're doing.
In post 1510, Almost50 wrote:Yet he could be what he said he sis and he is dying on N2.
He only dies on N2 if he is targeted...
...The very thing
he is trying to avoid happening
.

Town players don't fear death like that; scum do.
In post 1510, Almost50 wrote:STOP BEING BAD AT THIS GAME.
And where was your vote on D1?

Where was MY vote on D1?

Yeah, thought so.
In post 1512, Almost50 wrote:Just give the guy a chance, will you?
I am. He's got one chance to die N2. He dies, then no problem; he lives, he's scum. If I wasn't giving him a chance, I'd be lynching him over Reasonably Psychotic to be honest. The only reason he's not my vote now is BECAUSE he's got that chance to die tonight.
In post 1511, Reasonably Psychotic wrote:Mastina: assume we both flip town. Toog dies N2. Analyze with those assumptions.
Easy. You town, Toog town, scumteam's Morality, Robert, and NearxMello.

You town, Toog scum, scumteam's Morality-Robert with no Near/Mello.

You scum, Toog town, scumteam's probably still Morality-Robert.
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Post Post #1539 (isolation #105) » Sun Feb 17, 2019 8:13 am

Post by mastina »

In post 1517, Chito and Yuuri wrote:Do you have a lot of familiarity with robert? You've kinda moved him into your lower tier poe but I don't really see you talking about your scumread of him independently. Why is robert scum?
I don't have much experience with him, only a single game.

He's not really a scumread in the conventional sense; I actually already explained why he's one:
He fits in the gaps, in the zone which usually has a scum or two. Someone slipping under the radar, who doesn't attract attention. Not strongly present, scumread, or townread; just…kinda THERE.

Initially, Robert was nulltown; I loosely thought his contributions might be in line with my prior game with him. However, when you pair the above reasoning with the passage of time (he no longer looks like he's in line with said prior game; there's too little content, because he gave way more by this point), it sticks out.

He's not a major scumread, because these reasonings are both weak. Maybe not matching a single town game? Being a scumread because of being neither a scumread nor a townread? Weak reasons, even in tandem. But that's where the read is coming from.

In short, poe plus weak meta.
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Post Post #1540 (isolation #106) » Sun Feb 17, 2019 8:15 am

Post by mastina »

In post 1518, Toogeloo wrote:Mastina, you might need to be the one to "vig" me tonight.
Oh I was already planning on it, but I want at least one or two others as insurance. There are any number of ways my action could be nullified if I was the only one, but with MORE than one ……
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Post Post #1543 (isolation #107) » Sun Feb 17, 2019 8:24 am

Post by mastina »

In post 1526, Morality wrote:Also, how can Mastina possibly see Wisdom/Morality scum pairing? I went from a null 6th slot to main 2 after posting reads and explaining pretty much my classic townself?

Lol, okay.
Where to begin.
One, the Wisdom-Morality pairing relies on both Reasonably Psychotic and Toogeloo being town; while one may be, I don't believe that both are. In fact, while Near/Mello remain in my poe pool, I happen to currently think that they're town. (Similar to Dunnstral; there's three scum for six candidates, and I think that two of the three town are Dunnstral and Near/Mello right now.)

Two, absolutely yes. You can be scum with Wisdom; nothing in your interactions is outside your scum ranges. As established in point one, I happen to currently think that you AREN'T partners, but that doesn't mean it's impossible.

Three, your current posting actually made me go from said null to strongly considering flash-lynching you because your recent posting is an outright scumclaim.

In fact:
VOTE: Morality.
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Post Post #1610 (isolation #108) » Sun Feb 17, 2019 10:08 am

Post by mastina »

In post 1544, Morality wrote:It is very much by design, Mastina.

I will become obv town eventually, but nice to see you can fall into scum’s trap so easily.

I have a Loud role that will help confirm me later in the game.
Uh huh.

Repeat after me.

Role != alignment.

Being Loud means nothing.
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Post Post #1611 (isolation #109) » Sun Feb 17, 2019 10:09 am

Post by mastina »

In post 1545, Morality wrote: I’ve already claimed in my channel. If you still want to push me, this is going to be an extremely over the top game. My channel and I have already pretty much nearly full claimed to each other. I can protect my channel and take out scum in the process.

I’m not going to say how, but I will take out a scum alongside me when my demise eventually comes.
This is literally a scumclaim by the way.

This is. To a T. What Morality does as scum.
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Post Post #1615 (isolation #110) » Sun Feb 17, 2019 10:15 am

Post by mastina »

In post 1556, Morality wrote:The thing is, I literally have a role that can secure townies from living, take out scum in the process (starting night 2 anyways), and I have a Loud modifier, which eventually can be confirmed.

Mastina and Wisdom are two players who know mechanically what’s the correct play, and Mastina is going on a personal tone level without thinking, so their logic is incredibly flawed, and I’ve been baiting Wisdom for pages now.
Nope! My scumread on you is partially trusting Torque's analysis, combined with the way you've played. Before, the lack of oomph in your presence got you a nullread, which landed you in the poe pool eventually. But once you started getting hyperactive today, everything fell into place. I immediately put the pieces together.

This isn't a town trap, as you're pretending it to be; this is chaining together the long game by faking such.
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Post Post #1626 (isolation #111) » Sun Feb 17, 2019 10:29 am

Post by mastina »

In post 1566, Morality wrote:The reason I know this entire post is because I know for a fact that Mastina has seen multiple of my scum games, and hasn’t yet to ever actually play with scum me. But she’s commented on my scum games. I don’t necessarily think Mastina is scum here, but I think she’s weak town right now.

I gambit a lot as scum, yes, but I am incredibly safe while doing it. I think everything out to a T when I’m scum, as opposed to my town game where I try to be as completely transparent as possible, and just kind of do things, which is why i state when I’m baiting someone, or when I’m reaction testing. I like to not hide that from the players that I am not doing this towards. I am a chaotic town player, but it gets results.

A50, you can attest to that. I caught you and your partner out when nobody else was even suspecting your partner recently after a long 3 day+ gambit of play.

You’ve also seen how as scum, I completely think literally EVERY single scenario out.

There isn’t a world where ScumMe attempt to take on Mastina and Wisdom without having set it up from far earlier in the game. I brought up an incredibly weak reasoning for potential scumWisdom, not even actual scumWisdom. Just an observation. I stated that multiple times. Sure, I started giving him the Third Degree Boon, but I digress.

I’m not this sloppy a scum player, but I am this reckless a town player. And you can take that...to the Boon Bank.
You are correctly telling us what your scumplay is, but the thing is, you literally are describing your play this game.

Your gambits are safe?
Wrapping your neighborhood around your fingers gives you a safety net; there's almost no risk in what you are doing.

You think everything out?

You've literally been talking about how you have been laying things out from the start; sounds an awful lot like you thought things out, your self-confessed scumplay.

You're transparent as town?
You've been opaque all game.
You just kinda do things as town?
You haven't been doing things all game at all.

There is absolutely a world where you attack both Wisdom and I as scum; it is specifically the world where you need a high-risk, high-reward ploy to win…and such ploys are your modus operandi.
You also have confessed to having set this up, literally what you said that you'd do as scum.

You are telling us exactly what you are doing while claiming to not be doing it.
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Post Post #1631 (isolation #112) » Sun Feb 17, 2019 10:35 am

Post by mastina »

In post 1612, Morality wrote:
In post 1611, mastina wrote:
In post 1545, Morality wrote: I’ve already claimed in my channel. If you still want to push me, this is going to be an extremely over the top game. My channel and I have already pretty much nearly full claimed to each other. I can protect my channel and take out scum in the process.

I’m not going to say how, but I will take out a scum alongside me when my demise eventually comes.
This is literally a scumclaim by the way.

This is. To a T. What Morality does as scum.
Lol, this is what I do as town also. Why is that left out?
Because by your own confession, this ISN'T what you do as town.

There is a superficial surface level resemblance, but everything is different with even so much as a LITTLE analysis beyond the surface level.
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Post Post #1634 (isolation #113) » Sun Feb 17, 2019 10:40 am

Post by mastina »

In post 1620, Near x Mello wrote:Also Mastina what happened to your hard meta scumread on me in particular?

~Mello
What made you think that was a hard meta scumread? It was a soft meta scumread, and most of my reasons for scumreading you are separate from that.

The scumread didn't go away, but as I already explained in my neighborhood, I simply don't see a probable scumteam containing you. Possible ones, sure; you could be scum with Morality. But PROBABLE ones, no.

You've played with me often enough to know how much I differentiate between possible and probable. They're worlds apart.
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Post Post #1637 (isolation #114) » Sun Feb 17, 2019 10:44 am

Post by mastina »

In post 1627, Morality wrote:When, as scum, do I not doing anything?
I didn't say you weren't doing anything.

I said you weren't trying things.

The two aren't synonymous.

You haven't been trying things--the self-confessed hallmark of your townplay.

You HAVE been doing things--the hallmark of your scumplay.

The two should never be confused.
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Post Post #1642 (isolation #115) » Sun Feb 17, 2019 10:46 am

Post by mastina »

In post 1630, Morality wrote:I’m super consistent as scum, you’re saying here that I’m not. You’re literally town casing me.
You ARE super consistent, but that's what I was saying.

Everything is planned out. Rather than spur of the moment.
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Post Post #1647 (isolation #116) » Sun Feb 17, 2019 11:02 am

Post by mastina »

Actually, don't need to be at home, just thought of a perfect summary of what I am saying.

Internally consistent narrative != true.
Just because a narrative is consistent, does not mean it is accurate.

Morality has an internally consistent narrative (part of his self-professed scumplay), but the actual facts differ from the narrative in the ways I've been pointing out. The narrative remains consistent, but it also remains fictional.
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Post Post #1653 (isolation #117) » Sun Feb 17, 2019 11:48 am

Post by mastina »

Okay, so as I was driving home, I remembered a really, really important fact about Morality: Morality has described my scumplay as being similar to his own, a conclusion I don't disagree with. So when I tell you that Morality's scumplay is similar to my own, I say so with the understanding that those words aren't mine--they're HIS.

He described me as "untouchable scum"--the very thing he is trying to be this game. His play is incredibly political, pushing a scum agenda while hitting the right marks to come off as a townie. He is trying to get a mislynch that can keep the game open and flow with scum, when it was previously via Vedith's lynch closed off to them.

He's doing things which superficially
should
be town, but which are just that: superficial. He is a good scum player; looking good without actually being good. He is also relying on his role to survive--a tactic he proscribed to being something he'd think me (the player similar to him in his eyes) would do as scum. Specifically, having people write him off as "oh, he'll be nightkilled by the scum, so they'll sort it out" is the attitude he WANTS people to have of him.

He is waiting for people's reactions before he acts out--something he attributed to my scumgame, which he confessed was similar to his own. He is baiting people, but not in a town way. He does think himself as the team heavy, by the way, so he wouldn't be likely to be bussed, but that's not part of my case, really. What's indirectly linked to this is that he will aim, hard, to pocket people--particularly in neighborhoods.

He also doesn't bus often--guess what Morality WASN'T doing on D1? He wasn't voting Vedith. Quite the opposite, he voted Vedith's counterwagon.

Plus, there's another fact, not said by him but which is backed by the testament that we're similar: he is being a cheeky scumfuck, by telling us in plain sight what he is doing, but by hiding it and pretending he is doing something else--with the pretend being his narrative.

His internally consistent narrative, the thing he is pretending to be, is what he is trying to sell, even though he let it be known publicly what he is really doing. Because, again, internally consistent narrative != fact; internally consistent narrative != truth.
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Post Post #1666 (isolation #118) » Sun Feb 17, 2019 12:34 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 1665, Torque wrote:And I thought you didn't fully agree with my analysis
I didn't, at the time.

Then the gamestate changed.

I looked at my scum pool and realized that there wasn't a probable scumteam including Near x Mello. (Heck even if you dip into names outside of my scum poe pool--there isn't a probable scumteam I can think of. Who are Near x Mello's scumbuddies? I can't think of a coherent team that makes sense.)

Morality showed his hand, when previously it was hidden, telling me he was scum.

The developing divide on the subject of Toogeloo along with posting around Reasonably Psychotic made me think that while one of those two was probably still scum, it was incredibly doubtful both were.

Realizing that Robert was in a more suspicious spot than I had previously assumed him to be.

A bunch of little things adding up told me that while I was in fact on the right track with my poe, I got the combo wrong when I had my three scum as Near/Mello, Reasonably Psychotic, and Toogeloo. That two of the scum were Morality and Robert, with the third in my original three scumreads, with the least likely as Near x Mello and most likely as Toogeloo.

And yes, I do think the solve is exactly that. Morality-Toogeloo-Robert.
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Post Post #1667 (isolation #119) » Sun Feb 17, 2019 12:36 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 1666, mastina wrote:(Heck even if you dip into names outside of my scum poe pool--there isn't a probable scumteam I can think of. Who are Near x Mello's scumbuddies? I can't think of a coherent team that makes sense.)
(Incidentally, Wisdom, if I recall correctly, THIS was the deciding factor in why I eventually townread your slot in the game you replaced out of; I couldn't find a single scumteam which made sense that included Mathblade. It is a ridiculously strong and effective tool.)
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Post Post #1670 (isolation #120) » Sun Feb 17, 2019 12:48 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 1656, Morality wrote:I don’t think I’m playing like ScumMastina at all right now or that i’m Very planned out. I was doing stuff, but I didn’t have plan.
Also, to address this: similar != identical to. I've already begun to outline (if not in here then in the neighborhood if nowhere else) where our scumgames diverge from one another; there's critical points they DO overlap in, but they also diverge at specific key points.

And I am trying to outline not only where they are similar but also where they are different and what this means overall.

You have already shown you were very planned out, and by your own confession, doing stuff = scum from you whereas trying stuff = town from you.

The difference between the two is that trying things = throwing shit onto the wall to see what sticks. A common, but apt, metaphor; you try multiple things, from multiple angles, to see whatever might hold merit. That is your townplay; that has been utterly absent this entire game.

Doing things = maneuvering, more or less. Setting up a plan. Doing things is setting the groundwork for future moves. And what was this, pray tell, if not exactly that?
In post 1556, Morality wrote:The thing is, I literally have a role that can secure townies from living, take out scum in the process (starting night 2 anyways), and I have a Loud modifier, which eventually can be confirmed.

Mastina and Wisdom are two players who know mechanically what’s the correct play, and Mastina is going on a personal tone level without thinking, so their logic is incredibly flawed, and I’ve been baiting Wisdom for pages now.
In post 1571, Morality wrote:I’m confirmable through my Loud role as time goes on.

I’m okay with that not to be trusted, but I am not today’s lynch. You best be looking for who else you find scummy to try and mislynch.
In post 1545, Morality wrote:I made my Hokage Naruto reference because I’m a character like that, and I’ll show you when I become Hokage.

That’s not my role, but it’s a solid parallel. I’ve already claimed in my channel. If you still want to push me, this is going to be an extremely over the top game. My channel and I have already pretty much nearly full claimed to each other. I can protect my channel and take out scum in the process.

I’m not going to say how, but I will take out a scum alongside me when my demise eventually comes.
You set up your claim with the Hokage/Naruto reference. You claimed in your channel. You have the protection of your channel. You have set up a long-term plan. Manipulative. The hallmark of your scumgame.
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Post Post #1671 (isolation #121) » Sun Feb 17, 2019 12:51 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 1669, Joan of Arc wrote:
In post 1668, Joan of Arc wrote:@mastina
In post 1649, Joan of Arc wrote:p=edit: We're all good masons together.
Or we're as close to it as you can get - in a SU2 fashion. You get what I am saying?
Frankly, yes, I just don't believe it, sorry. There isn't a 3p claim in the world which can make me think Morality is anything other than scum this game. There isn't any information that was shared exclusively in that 'hood that could make me think Morality is anything other than scum this game. If you have people who are conftown to each other, who have information pointing out that someone is town, whatever, and it was shared with Morality and you think he's town because you shared that info and scum didn't react to it.

Well remember what Reasonably Rational did with the information you divulged in SU2? Did they immediately obliterate the crystal gem faction, or did they milk you for everything you were worth?

It was the latter; Morality's no different in this regard.
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Post Post #1705 (isolation #122) » Mon Feb 18, 2019 9:31 am

Post by mastina »

In post 1689, Gamma Emerald wrote:Really? So why did you say being Loud was meant to help confirm me in the postgame of Elbirn's normal?
It wasn't Loud.

It was Loud Fruit Vendor.

In a game where in order to kill and action, you need the multitasking modifier. Lacking the multitasking modifier, receiving fruit and knowing you visit in tandem serves to makes you confirmed as not performing the kill--leaving you be conftown in the long-run.

Multitasking as a modifier is nigh-nonexistent outside of Normals though, and most scum can both kill and action in theme games.

Being Loud by itself means nothing, ESPECIALLY not in a theme game.

You're comparing an apple to an orange; the two have nothing in common.
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Post Post #1706 (isolation #123) » Mon Feb 18, 2019 9:32 am

Post by mastina »

In post 1690, Gamma Emerald wrote:Nah, I think you're wrong. Let's whip out some Tropes for this one. So the agreed way Boon plays as scum is that of the Manipulative Bastard, right? Well as town he's closer to Magnificent Bastard. I get the sense he's playing closer to the latter here. Especially with his crumb.
There is nothing magnificent in his play here; there is only manipulation.
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Post Post #1707 (isolation #124) » Mon Feb 18, 2019 9:36 am

Post by mastina »

In fact, easily settled:
In post 1248, Tatsuya Kaname wrote:- You also have a
factional kill
power. Decide with your teammate and confirm in your PT;
who is going to kill whom?
. You may change decisions until the end of the night. You may choose to not kill.
MOD: could Vedith both use the nightkill and action?

It's not specified one way or another, but the mod should be able to answer this.

Scum could both action and kill, Loud means absolute jackshit.
Scum can't both action and kill, Loud confirms they didn't kill that night, at least.
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Post Post #1777 (isolation #125) » Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:05 am

Post by mastina »

In post 1716, Near x Mello wrote:mastina is now townreading us
Not quite. I don't see a scumteam including you that makes sense as being probable--that doesn't make you a townread, it just neuters the scumread. Lacking options, if desperate, I'd lynch you, I'd just be incredibly unhappy about it because I wouldn't expect a scumflip.
In post 1709, Morality wrote:Disagree. Charismatic rallying, not manipulating.
I've seen your rallying.

This isn't it.
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Post Post #1778 (isolation #126) » Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:08 am

Post by mastina »

In post 1729, Tatsuya Kaname wrote:
In post 2, Tatsuya Kaname wrote:
IMPORTANT: UNLESS STATED OTHERWISE, YOU MAY ONLY ACTIVATE ONE ACTION EACH PHASE.
NOTE THAT THIS DOES NOT INCLUDE FACTIONAL KILLS AND ANY PASSIVE ABILITIES THAT ACTIVATE AUTOMATICALLY
.
And there you have it.

Being Loud is worthless, because all scum can both kill and action, meaning being confirmed as targeting someone else does not mean that the person couldn't have killed that same night.
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Post Post #1779 (isolation #127) » Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:11 am

Post by mastina »

In post 1769, Morality wrote:He’s doing it to mimic a successful townie play.
There is someone this statement much, much, MUCH better applies to.
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Post Post #1784 (isolation #128) » Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:17 am

Post by mastina »

In post 1780, Morality wrote:Good thing just being loud was never the part that could confirm. I just also happen to be loud.
Doesn't matter.

Confirmed role != confirmed alignment.

With the exception of ACTUAL masons, innocent childs, and friendly neighbors.
It is rather clearly self-evident you are none of those.

There isn't a role in the game you could have aside from one of those that could ever make me think you are town. Mass-doc? Sane cop? Super-inventor? Role enabler? Role disabler? Nope, not a one. Nothing in any of those roles inherently implies town.

Knowing about the existence of those roles and letting them live a single night?

Nope, still doesn't make you town.
Knowing about the existence of a role allows you to neutralize or otherwise contain the role to be utilized in the most pro-scum way possible while still masked as a pro-town agenda.

I've used this tactic before (deliberately letting a strong town role live in spite of knowing about it), Cerb's used this tactic before, and if you claim you haven't, you're a dirty rotten liar because you know damn good and well you've done so too.
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Post Post #1785 (isolation #129) » Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:21 am

Post by mastina »

In post 1781, Morality wrote:
In post 1779, mastina wrote:
In post 1769, Morality wrote:He’s doing it to mimic a successful townie play.
There is someone this statement much, much, MUCH better applies to.
I wonder whoever do you mean. You didn’t think I was being townie, so can’t be me.
I do indeed think you're not being townie.
Doesn't mean you're not mimicking a successful townie play as scum.

Note that mimicries need not be perfect. They need not be exact replicas. They need only sell the
illusion
of being identical.

You have sold the idea that what you are doing is your towngame--there are differences, clear as day, present, but the narrative of it being your "successful townie play" is still what you push regardless.
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Post Post #2003 (isolation #130) » Wed Feb 20, 2019 9:13 am

Post by mastina »

In post 1786, Clemency wrote:someone with more experience with her tell me if mastina always makes empty meaningless statements like this
It's a scumtell of mine not to. :P
In post 1791, Torque wrote:I stopped understanding the game since Mastina started voting Morality
help
Remember when I said, in regards to Pink Ball, that just because a point is good does not mean the point is right? How in spite of how good my points were against him, that they were wrong because he was actually town?

This metric applies for my POE pool.

I hold to my POE pool being correct.

I also hold to my original POE pool having good points.

I just don't think that the points which I originally thought were right, actually are, RE: Reasonably Psychotic, Near x Mello.

And yet I do think my points are right, RE: Toogeloo, Morality, Robert.

Near x Mello, I made many good points for why they'd be scum--but these points are neutered by one critical point; who is their scumteam? They don't match with any of the names inside the POE pool. Heck, even outside of the POE pool, common names people want to put inside of it they don't match with, either. They're not scumbuddies with Elena given those two slots' interactions. Would they be scum with Gamma? Haven't investigated that, but who'd be the final scum in that team, hypothetically?

I simply can't place them in a scumteam--and because of that, that's fairly compelling evidence that my points for them being scum are wrong. Obviously, it is possible that I am missing a scumteam that works, that they are scum and I simply don't see their scumteam because it is that well masked or I am that blind interactions-wise. So they are still in the POE for that reason. But realistically, if I voted them I'd be expecting them to not flip scum right now, making them a bad vote.

Reasonably Psychotic is in a sense a backup scum candidate. I made many good points for why they'd be scum, and these points don't really have much of a neuter to them. However, my current solve involves Toogeloo being scum (you saw me give reasons for this in the neighborhood and the only reason I'm not publicly stating said reasons is because Toogeloo is set to die tonight and thus bringing them to the main thread's a distraction we don't need right now) and indicates that Reasonably Psychotic is less likely to be his scumbuddy.

They are still possible scum and if desperate I'd vote them; I'd vote them way, way, WAY before I'd vote Near x Mello (who I'd be willing to vote if desperately needing to avert a lynch on a townread), but while they could be scum, the odds of my points being right feel lower. This is largely, yes, I admit, based on the POE pool combined with interactions such as VCA; the scum voting patterns don't quite match Cerb's modus operandi if he were scum. They COULD match, depending on exact scumteam membership, but balance of probabilities weakly favors this not being him as a scum mastermind.

Toogeloo has VERY strong reasons for being scum and I strongly feel they are right, but due to his claimed role, he gets a one-day pass.
Morality has VERY strong reasons for being scum and I strongly feel that they are right--and more than that, because he is a high-profile player, his flip regardless of scum or town gives us a shitload of information. This, aside from the fact that he is almost certainly the scum mastermind of this game since the confirmed AND suspected scum's interactions match his modus operandi, meaning depriving them of their heavy-hitter and best scum member would be an almost instant town win.

Robert has only some weak reasons for being scum; I feel they are right, but they're weak. I laid them out before; it's a combination of him being in the lurker zone, of him providing more content as town so weak burden-of-proficiency, of him basically being poe-scum. He is a low-profile player, and regardless of a scumflip or a townflip his flip gives us next-to-zero information to work off of. If he's scum as I suspect, it does deprive the scum of an additional member and make them slightly more desperate, but it doesn't trigger an auto-loss for them, not even if he's their strongest scum role.

There's also the fact that Robert is probably being replaced soon--him not having given much (half the reason I think he's scum) could be null due to real life stuff interfering, so my hope is that a replacement comes in and the replacement gives us a much better read on the slot. There's almost nobody who could replace in without me being fully confident I'd be able to read them and clear the slot up; give final proof that it's a scum slot, or give evidence that the read was wrong. And regardless of which, said replacement would give us more info.

So while I'm not against a Robert lynch, it's not ideal.
While I'm not going to fight a Reasonably Psychotic lynch, it's a desperation lynch.
While I'm not going to argue strongly against a Near x Mello lynch, it's a lynch of absolute last resort.
I'd rather play sub-optimally and just lynch Toogeloo today rather than test him tonight, than lynch either Reasonably Psychotic or Near x Mello.
But my preference would be Morality > Robert > Toogeloo > Reasonably Psychotic > Near x Mello > Literally Any Other Player In The Game.
In post 1790, Morality wrote:If there were any actual cases against me, I’d happily tear them down
There IS an actual case. I'm just having trouble finding my words for it.
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Post Post #2008 (isolation #131) » Wed Feb 20, 2019 9:29 am

Post by mastina »

In post 1813, Clemency wrote:i'm certain town wisdom would have responded more aggressively to a push like that on him
Actually, it's the opposite--I'd expect a scum Wisdom to respond more aggressively to a push like that on him, whereas a town Wisdom wouldn't. Sure, the Kokichi Oma half would--and DID. Look at Kokichi's reaction to my push on Near x Mello for proof of this.
In post 1808, Torque wrote:Mastina has a post in the hood that no scum will take the effort to fake. I don't think I need to say this but still
Since I'm using this as a point against Morality and fair's fair, obligatory reminder that my neighborhood content is not a good metric by which to townread me, not even remotely.

Neighborhoods can, and have been, manipulated. *coughMoralitycough*

I can, confidently, say that I am as obvtown right now as it is possible for me to be given my natural competency as scum (scumastina's obvtown enough that being well and truly obvtown beyond all reprieve is at this point impossible), but it's not off of the neighborhood; the neighborhood should be more or less discarded in terms of being town. (Neighborhoods can contribute to a scumread, but shouldn't really contribute to a townread in like 80-90% of the times, barring special circumstances.)
In post 1823, Torque wrote:Rather than scum won't put in the effort to fake it, more like, scum won't think of doing what she did there. It's just something you won't say you did unless you actually did it.
Case and point, I know what post you're referring to and I have done something similar to this at least twice as scum, making it a bad metric to use. (Admittedly, both times I had reasons; there was a scum agenda to achieve in one case where I desperately needed to manipulate the gamestate in my favor, and the other time was a simple case of me knowing I did it as town so I did it as scum--not faked doing it as scum, LEGITIMATELY, genuinely, did it as scum. Because scumastina is many things, a faker is not among them. When I say I do something, I do it, it's just not always town.)

Which is why I reiterate: what Morality has done in the neighborhood fundamentally CANNOT be evidence of him being town. No matter what is there.
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Post Post #2009 (isolation #132) » Wed Feb 20, 2019 9:34 am

Post by mastina »

In post 1849, Morality wrote:I didn’t expect scum to just out themselves the way Chito just did.
Yes because obviously the scumteam went out of its way to call you scum.

Obviously, Near x Mello, mastina, and Chito/Yuuri are in collusion with one another to lynch you because we deemed you that much of a threat.

Clearly, we are scum together and could in no way shape or form be town who have formed genuine scumreads on you.
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Post Post #2010 (isolation #133) » Wed Feb 20, 2019 9:35 am

Post by mastina »

In post 2009, mastina wrote:
In post 1849, Morality wrote:I didn’t expect scum to just out themselves the way Chito just did.
Yes because obviously the scumteam went out of its way to call you scum.

Obviously, Near x Mello, mastina, and Chito/Yuuri are in collusion with one another to lynch you because we deemed you that much of a threat.

Clearly, we are scum together and could in no way shape or form be town who have formed genuine scumreads on you.
And by this, I mean.

When Near x Mello pushed Morality, Morality called them scum.
When I pushed Morality, Morality called them scum.
When Chito and Yuuri pushed Morality, Morality called them scum.

Noticing a trend?
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Post Post #2011 (isolation #134) » Wed Feb 20, 2019 9:39 am

Post by mastina »

In post 1862, Morality wrote: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=78330&user_select%5B%5D=32341
Here’s Weiss as town. Completely posts thoughts, stances.
That hydra has been giving complete thoughts and stances in posts for literally the entirety of the game; their iso is ripe with exactly that.
You use a single post to say that they aren't doing that.
When literally the entirety of their iso other than that single post is them doing precisely that.
In post 1862, Morality wrote: That was too much political
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Post Post #2012 (isolation #135) » Wed Feb 20, 2019 9:52 am

Post by mastina »

In post 1875, Morality wrote:My Loud isn’t the part of my role that will confirm me. Well, it helps with that, but that specifically isn’t the part that will, which is why Mastina is being hard headed when she tunnels onto that Loud factor, because that’s a non factor really.
This is a nice misrep of the situation, since my initial impression was that you were claiming the Loud part WAS what made you confirmable; I demonstrated it did not.

My stance once you clarified otherwise remained consistent; confirmable role != confirmable alignment.

Doesn't matter if you're a vig, doesn't matter if you're a public cop, doesn't matter if you announce a targeted action, beit protective, investigative, killing, miscellaneous, manipulative, what have you. All that does is confirm that the mod gave you that role; no usage of it will confirm your alignment.
In post 1882, Morality wrote:I’m literally fucking confirmable
And why should I care your role's confirmable? When a confirmed role doesn't equal a confirmed alignment?
In post 1886, Morality wrote:I have fucking constantly been calling Mastina’s fucking town.
Uh-huh.
In post 1596, Morality wrote:Mastina has a forced subtle projected trajectory with me, that if she ends up red, shows she was completely scum caught in the bait.
I’m just not super confident in her being Red, and I don’t want to mislynch her because I’d feel bad.
Just because you weren't super-confident doesn't mean you weren't calling me scum here.
In post 1602, Morality wrote:Nah, I think you and Mastina have scum theatred it up. Falls perfectly in line with Mastina saying that she still can see you and I as teammates, but probably not. She went from scum reading you, and she used me as the pivot to get off of her scum buddy.

You guys were classic scum theatre after looking at it. You would have been far more upset with Mastina had she been scum reading you after you stated she contradicted herself and blatantly lied, then the two of you shift momentum onto me when your other lynched weren’t working out. Your pools lined up with each ofther, but you contradicted each other just enough to make it seem like you were on opposite sides, and then Mastina pulls the trigger because she fixed her trajectory once I started baiting you.

In addition to Mastina definitely able to “do the most”, my town read on her was flawed earlier, as after the forced trajectory, her previously town motivated agenda turns into a projected town motivated agenda, but she had to change it up because scum was hurting. Especially after Vedith flip. She’s also pushing the game the most as “solved” due to Vedith flipping and interactions, when Vedith is not that surface level of a player. She was using that as a crutch to show conviction. You guys pounced on me expecting support.

On top of that, Elena and Robert are both easy to push as “‘mechanically accurate” whilst not actually opening he game up much, and Elena is a strong player, making that mindset scum orientated while projecting towniness.
You can argue you were pushing Near x Mello over me here but you were still pushing me.
In post 1603, Morality wrote:“Get off of her scum buddy” in the political sense, not necessarily voting wise. I don’t know if she was voting you or not. Doesn’t really matter.
In post 1604, Morality wrote:She’s also setting up Toogelo, and allowing options for herself and allowing herself to pivot depending on what plan is chosen.
Sure doesn't seem like you scumread me at all here. Clearly.
In post 1889, Morality wrote:I’m Asta from Black clover.
When one of my “friends” are lynched, I have to target on the wagon. If I hit scum they die, and a global announcement will state that it was me. If I don’t hit scum, I roleblock whoever I targeted, and they’ll know I targeted them.
What a remarkably unconfirmable role.
In post 1899, Chito and Yuuri wrote:Chito: This level of exasperated flail is like very slightly townie
Not from Morality it isn't--quite the opposite, he can get remarkably toxic as scum.
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Post Post #2013 (isolation #136) » Wed Feb 20, 2019 9:56 am

Post by mastina »

In post 1914, Morality wrote:Well, the Asta from Black Clover is real.
And I'm willing to bet more of that is true than you let on, such as needing to wait until N2 thus the increased activity.

Still doesn't make it any more town.
In post 1918, Morality wrote:You and Mastina just don’t know how to manage ScumMe yet, so you just assume every game I can come out as scum.
Demonstrably false; I have correctly pegged a town-you as being town and that is why I am so adamant that this is you as scum, because the you of this game is NOT the you of your towngame.
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Post Post #2014 (isolation #137) » Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:08 am

Post by mastina »

In post 1936, Morality wrote:I never kill Drixx night 1 either. He was the other person in my channel talking at the time.
That is PRECISELY the reason you would kill him; Drixx served as competition for dominance of said neighborhood and was the one voice in there most likely to be skeptical of you--he may have had mechanical reasons to let you live and exploit you, and he may have even gone so far as to townread you, only members of the neighborhood would be able to comment on that, but he was also the one and only player in there who would EVER be skeptical, who would EVER be cautious, about you.

By that, I mean, even if he was currently townreading you, he was the only player there who could turn around and scumread you; he was the only player there who could sway other members around to said scumread if it ever had a chance to develop. Eliminating him before he'd get a chance to turn on you is basic scumplay. You don't kill the people scumreading you right now; you kill the people who are townreading you that are at the highest risk of turning around later to scumread you.
In post 1936, Morality wrote:I also wouldn’t have defended Vedith on a personal level basis without actual reasons. Vedith doesn’t get lynched if I was his buddy.
Vedith absolutely gets lynched as not only caught lying scum, but counterclaimed scum. You might be able to defend him against one of those, but the one-two combo punch of them was guaranteed to kill him, especially given the resistance to other wagons present.

You did attempt a counterwagon, to your credit--one which had, at a time, no less than three scum candidates on it. (Albeit possibly not at the same time, would need to check that to verify.)
In post 912, Tatsuya Kaname wrote:
Votecount 1.11

Vedith(5)
~ (73), (70), (60), (43), (115)

Pink Ball(5)
~ (66), (29), (15), (44), (41)
mastina(2)
~ (21), (124)
Gamma Emerald(2)
~ (20), (25)
In post 1123, Tatsuya Kaname wrote:
Votecount 1.15

Vedith(5)
~ (91), (79), (52), (73), (32)

Pink Ball(3)
~ (17), (78), (29)
mastina(3)
~ (25), (53), (124)
Gamma Emerald(2)
~ (22), (157)
Drixx(2)
~ (48), (67)
Specifically, I am referring to the Pink Ball counterwagon; Robert, Vedith, and yourself all appear on it.

It just didn't go through, because it
couldn't
go through.
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Post Post #2015 (isolation #138) » Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:12 am

Post by mastina »

In post 1955, Toogeloo wrote:VOTE: Robert
Elena, Gamma, Robert.
Nope, nothing suspicious about naming consensus scumreads as your three preferred lynches, nothing at all even remotely.
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Post Post #2017 (isolation #139) » Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:19 am

Post by mastina »

In post 2007, Flavor Leaf wrote:The gang of them have constantly said either me or Robert, and they’ve very much almost forgotten about Elena.
That would be because Elena has shown she's town and won't be lynched today; you and Robert, no such showing.
In post 2004, Joan of Arc wrote:Even if he is scum, what's the harm of making the most use of his role?
Remember when you used that logic on Reasonably Rational?

Remember how we had a chance to lynch him much earlier but let him live?

Remember how they used that opportunity to live long enough to wipe your faction out and come dangerously close to winning the game?

THAT would be the harm of making the most use of his role.
In post 2006, Flavor Leaf wrote:I mean, in my scum games, I create a very strong path for my team to win.
And part of my case revolves how your play has been setting up precisely this.
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Post Post #2019 (isolation #140) » Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:23 am

Post by mastina »

In post 2017, mastina wrote:
In post 2004, Joan of Arc wrote:Even if he is scum, what's the harm of making the most use of his role?
Remember when you used that logic on Reasonably Rational?

Remember how we had a chance to lynch him much earlier but let him live?

Remember how they used that opportunity to live long enough to wipe your faction out and come dangerously close to winning the game?

THAT would be the harm of making the most use of his role.
And to reiterate.

Flavor Leaf's stance on me is that as scum, I am too dangerous to let live--he compared me to him, noting that we are similar.
Flavor Leaf's stance on me is that as scum, I need to be lynched immediately, to prevent me from gaining a foothold in the game--again, to reiterate, his logic behind this is that he and I share scum styles of play.

It then is obvious to figure the natural conclusion--as scum, Flavor Leaf knows that if he is left alive, he can gain a foothold on the game from which he can lead his scumteam to victory.

So the reason not to let him live is because he himself knows that if he is left alive, he is dangerous enough to win the game as scum.
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Post Post #2020 (isolation #141) » Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:27 am

Post by mastina »

In post 2019, mastina wrote:
In post 2017, mastina wrote:
In post 2004, Joan of Arc wrote:Even if he is scum, what's the harm of making the most use of his role?
Remember when you used that logic on Reasonably Rational?

Remember how we had a chance to lynch him much earlier but let him live?

Remember how they used that opportunity to live long enough to wipe your faction out and come dangerously close to winning the game?

THAT would be the harm of making the most use of his role.
And to reiterate.

Flavor Leaf's stance on me is that as scum, I am too dangerous to let live--he compared me to him, noting that we are similar.
Flavor Leaf's stance on me is that as scum, I need to be lynched immediately, to prevent me from gaining a foothold in the game--again, to reiterate, his logic behind this is that he and I share scum styles of play.

It then is obvious to figure the natural conclusion--as scum, Flavor Leaf knows that if he is left alive, he can gain a foothold on the game from which he can lead his scumteam to victory.

So the reason not to let him live is because he himself knows that if he is left alive, he is dangerous enough to win the game as scum.
And to even further reiterate--he said to fuck my role, fuck how "scum would take care of me eventually", that I was too dangerous for waiting on that, because he and I were that similar.

Yet here.

He is saying scum would take care of him eventually--in spite of how he knows that he is dangerous enough that waiting that long gives him the advantage.
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Post Post #2225 (isolation #142) » Fri Feb 22, 2019 11:04 am

Post by mastina »

MOD: potential V/LA due to snow…
…Again.


Good god I hope not, but it's been falling for at least five hours and sticking to the roads, so who knows.
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Post Post #2229 (isolation #143) » Fri Feb 22, 2019 11:08 am

Post by mastina »

In post 2055, Flavor Leaf wrote:However, my scum mimicking does in fact feel different, I’ll give you that.
Guess what I think that you are this game?

Yep.
Different. From your town reactions.
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Post Post #2232 (isolation #144) » Fri Feb 22, 2019 11:12 am

Post by mastina »

In post 2069, Toogeloo wrote:
In post 2056, Flavor Leaf wrote:Fair warning, I won’t be able to be investigated after tonight, so anyone thinking about potentially doing that towards me should do it tonight. My Night 3 will make me essentially Ascetic.
Uh... Same here.

I mean, people's deadline to target me with anything was night 1 without repercussions. Bad things happen tonight and then Night 3 on I am Ascetic.

I thought it was kind of weird to be ascetic with passive abilities.
Right so we have three ascetic claims.

Now, who wants to be bold enough to call them all town?
Would love to hear someone say that with an absolutely straight face, dead serious.
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Post Post #2238 (isolation #145) » Fri Feb 22, 2019 11:17 am

Post by mastina »

In post 2134, Flavor Leaf wrote:For one of Clemency and I to be scum, we both have to be scum at this point.
Or, alternatively.
Radical idea, here, I know, so hard to wrap your heads around it.

Clemency is simply hard-pocketed town, who buffed scum unawares.
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Post Post #2241 (isolation #146) » Fri Feb 22, 2019 11:19 am

Post by mastina »

In post 2143, ooba wrote:Hello! Hello!

86 pages.. Starting the read now..
80% sure that this entrance is a hard scumclaim here.
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Post Post #2246 (isolation #147) » Fri Feb 22, 2019 11:28 am

Post by mastina »

In post 2152, Flavor Leaf wrote:The fact that this was counterclaimed tells me that scum is on this wagon.
Yeah, that's rats ass backwards and you know it.

There is a very serious chance that the entirety of the wagon (aside from Vedith, obv) is town.

Even if not!

Even IF--and this is a big huge gigantic if--there is scum on the wagon, in the immortal words of mhsmith (paraphrased, because phoneposting makes quoting the original hard),
"If the wagon looks scumdriven, lynch on the wagon; if the wagon looks driven by town, lynch off the wagon".

The wagon is, self-evidently, STRONGLY towndriven.

So we lynch off of it, not on it.
Lynching the players on it is doing the Scum's work for them.
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Post Post #2252 (isolation #148) » Fri Feb 22, 2019 11:35 am

Post by mastina »

In post 2153, Flavor Leaf wrote:Elena being on the Gamma wagon splits scum,
Not always.
Specifically, depends on who is calling the shots on the scumteam.

More specifically, a scumteam lead by you has a modus operandi flying squarely opposite of this, where you tend to vote together.

I detailed this in my neighborhood, but can't give details on phone.
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Post Post #2255 (isolation #149) » Fri Feb 22, 2019 11:38 am

Post by mastina »

In post 2181, Gamma Emerald wrote:FL's points on Near look damn solid
VOTE: Near X Mello
No, they're absolute shit, and everyone knows it.
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Post Post #2256 (isolation #150) » Fri Feb 22, 2019 11:41 am

Post by mastina »

In post 2199, Joan of Arc wrote:No, vote the naughty hydra. They bussed their partner.
And I am telling you as the person who turned around to correctly read Wisdom's slot and who has a decent track record for Kokichi (albeit imperfect), that no, they did not; I'm asking for your trust here.
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Post Post #2258 (isolation #151) » Fri Feb 22, 2019 11:43 am

Post by mastina »

In post 2256, mastina wrote:
In post 2199, Joan of Arc wrote:No, vote the naughty hydra. They bussed their partner.
And I am telling you as the person who turned around to correctly read Wisdom's slot and who has a decent track record for Kokichi (albeit imperfect), that no, they did not; I'm asking for your trust here.
Like.
Hands down, across most of the game especially D1.

I was one of the strongest proponents of them being scum.

So when I say they aren't.

YOU BETTER FUCKING LISTEN TO THAT READ
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Post Post #2260 (isolation #152) » Fri Feb 22, 2019 11:48 am

Post by mastina »

In post 2206, Flavor Leaf wrote:WE’RE LITERALLY FUCKING CONFIRMABLE HAVE SOME PATIENCE.

Fuck.
I gave you my terms.
Innocent Child, which you are not.
Masons, which you are not.
Friendly Neighbor, which you are not.

Those three, with a hard proof of exactly how and when they would happen are the only ways I'd ever relent.

But it is stupendously obvious that you are none of those.

So the claim of being confirmable is absolute bullshit.
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Post Post #2262 (isolation #153) » Fri Feb 22, 2019 11:50 am

Post by mastina »

In post 2231, Near x Mello wrote:whoever is listening to fl here should quit mafia
^
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Post Post #2264 (isolation #154) » Fri Feb 22, 2019 11:54 am

Post by mastina »

In post 2235, Reasonably Psychotic wrote:
In post 2232, mastina wrote:
In post 2069, Toogeloo wrote:
In post 2056, Flavor Leaf wrote:Fair warning, I won’t be able to be investigated after tonight, so anyone thinking about potentially doing that towards me should do it tonight. My Night 3 will make me essentially Ascetic.
Uh... Same here.

I mean, people's deadline to target me with anything was night 1 without repercussions. Bad things happen tonight and then Night 3 on I am Ascetic.

I thought it was kind of weird to be ascetic with passive abilities.
Right so we have three ascetic claims.

Now, who wants to be bold enough to call them all town?
Would love to hear someone say that with an absolutely straight face, dead serious.
Toog/FL=limited ascetic
S&J=full ascetic
Clemency=miller
singleton=miller, but with an informed town who claims to know their alignment.

Lots of investigative results fuckery going on regardless.

-Yukiteru
I repeat.

Tell me that they are all town with a straight face.
Dare you.
To dead seriously, genuinely, say that they are all town.

If not? Name the scum within; I already have.
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Post Post #2267 (isolation #155) » Fri Feb 22, 2019 11:57 am

Post by mastina »

In post 2236, Joan of Arc wrote:
In post 2232, mastina wrote:
In post 2069, Toogeloo wrote:
In post 2056, Flavor Leaf wrote:Fair warning, I won’t be able to be investigated after tonight, so anyone thinking about potentially doing that towards me should do it tonight. My Night 3 will make me essentially Ascetic.
Uh... Same here.

I mean, people's deadline to target me with anything was night 1 without repercussions. Bad things happen tonight and then Night 3 on I am Ascetic.

I thought it was kind of weird to be ascetic with passive abilities.
Right so we have three ascetic claims.

Now, who wants to be bold enough to call them all town?
Would love to hear someone say that with an absolutely straight face, dead serious.
So why do you think FL is scum and neither of the other two claimers could be?
One of the claimers is Spike/Jet; BOTH heads are obvtown to a ridiculous degree.
Another one is Toogeloo--who IS a scumread, just a self-resolving one because if he lives to see D3, he's auto-lynched.
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Post Post #2270 (isolation #156) » Fri Feb 22, 2019 12:00 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 2239, Chito and Yuuri wrote:
In post 2181, Gamma Emerald wrote:FL's points on Near look damn solid
VOTE: Near X Mello
Chito: FL has made his point; he doesn't think this post is scummy. That's fine.

I would like other people's reads of Gamma, though, particularly Spike and Jet, A50, mastina, and Pink Ball, and I'd like to know whether they buy this as a town!Gamma vote.
I'd like to formally announce that Dunnstral is kicked out of the poe pool and that Gamma's back in …
…As around RP levels of chance of being scum.
As in, don't think that she is, now, but she's a backup candidate who COULD be.
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Post Post #2273 (isolation #157) » Fri Feb 22, 2019 12:03 pm

Post by mastina »

Also.
The idea I'd ever ego lynch someone is not only absolutely ridiculous, it is also highly manipulative and frankly? Disgusting that FL would even argue that point.
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Post Post #2274 (isolation #158) » Fri Feb 22, 2019 12:05 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 2263, Near x Mello wrote:like how dumb can someone be to not realize fl is actively trying to manipulate the gamestate here

look at town fl hes dramatically different than this

~Near
Pretty much, yeah. This is, succinctly, what I've been saying.
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Post Post #2281 (isolation #159) » Fri Feb 22, 2019 12:08 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 2266, Clemency wrote:i'll repeat what i said earlier because it still stands
you've given me 0 reason what-so-ever to not townread fl this game
you've said nothing of value or purpose against fl or his cases
I'll repeat what I said earlier, you've given me 0 reason whatsoever to not townread Near/Mello this game.
You've said nothing of value or purpose against them or their cases.
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Post Post #2284 (isolation #160) » Fri Feb 22, 2019 12:09 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 2279, Near x Mello wrote:what you should reread is your hood and realize youre being played.

~Near
^
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Post Post #2285 (isolation #161) » Fri Feb 22, 2019 12:10 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 2283, Joan of Arc wrote:
In post 2260, mastina wrote:
In post 2206, Flavor Leaf wrote:WE’RE LITERALLY FUCKING CONFIRMABLE HAVE SOME PATIENCE.

Fuck.
I gave you my terms.
Innocent Child, which you are not.
Masons, which you are not.
Friendly Neighbor, which you are not.

Those three, with a hard proof of exactly how and when they would happen are the only ways I'd ever relent.

But it is stupendously obvious that you are none of those.

So the claim of being confirmable is absolute bullshit.
And how do you know that his role isn't Friendly Neighbor?
Because it isn't and don't pretend that it is; we both know as much.
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Post Post #2384 (isolation #162) » Fri Feb 22, 2019 2:36 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 2291, Joan of Arc wrote:Like, you are unsatisfied with me being a sheep, and you're also unsatisfied with me having original thought......
Being fully honest, that's unfortunately not likely to ever fully change. There are times where you being a sheep is better; there are times where you having original thought are better; there are times where it'd be best to have both, but you tend to still only show one at a time, and your judgement on when original thought vs. sheeping isn't perfect.

Granted, would be a lie if I said I could TELL you when original thought beats sheeping/when sheeping beats original thought perfectly, since my ability is just as imperfect. :P
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Post Post #2389 (isolation #163) » Fri Feb 22, 2019 2:41 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 2316, Near x Mello wrote:youve never tried to take on town me and town mastina before
Btw on that note--
I'd like to say that Flavor Leaf has given the narrative that he wouldn't willingly take on both Wisdom and me at once.

My counter to that:

He didn't have a choice.

I went from not really scumreading him to hard-pushing him; he had no choice but to take me on, because if he didn't, I'd have beaten him.
Near x Mello was attacking him long before I ever was; he had no choice but to take them on, because if he didn't, they'd have beaten him.

And to quote him on me (who he said was similar to him):
In post 289, Flavor Leaf wrote:You’re literally falling for Mastina’s bait so hard. She’s like that so people skip over her posts. I made a case about one of the comments she made where she literally just said the same thing I said, but with aggro. Wall posts hide the lack of actual things said. Don’t fight back. It helps her hide.
In post 288, Flavor Leaf wrote:She’s using you to cause a distraction to make noise in the thread. Don’t fall for the bait.
Guess what he's doing this game?

Pretty much precisely what he accused me of doing
that
game.
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Post Post #2394 (isolation #164) » Fri Feb 22, 2019 2:47 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 2387, Spike and Jet wrote:ank did you specifically wait for a townie slot to replace
I mean.
I don't
quite
do this but I do the opposite where I avoid replacing into slots I think are scum unless I am itching for a scumgame, so. :P
In post 2382, Near x Mello wrote:hi ank
whats your take on fl
if you tell me he isnt the lynch ill listen
Believe it or not, I echo this sentiment, too.
I've always held that the Clemency slot is town--and I trust in Ankamius's competency here. She's in the know enough where if she asks it of me, I will in fact go elsewhere.

To at least some extent; not gonna lynch a townread but if she tells me to pursue elsewhere, I will. <3
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Post Post #2397 (isolation #165) » Fri Feb 22, 2019 2:52 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 2396, Gamma Emerald wrote:Why MUST one be scum? Role =/= alignment in your words, and there've been game(s) with multiple ascetics before.
Because balance of probability with established setup design thusfar.

Vedith's role has strong parallels to mine for instance.
Vedith was scum; I am town.
His similar-to-my-role was the scum counterpart to mine.

If one scum flipped had a role similar to mine.
It figures there's more scum in the game who have roles similar to town roles.

With three ascetic claims.

That's a GIGANTIC red flag as to the presence of another such overlap, where there's scum among them.
Each of the claims works in a different way, so they aren't identical--but there's enough overlap where the role parallels can be given, just as my role could for Vedith's.
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Post Post #2486 (isolation #166) » Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:37 pm

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In post 2411, Spike and Jet wrote:if drixx died for anything other than the role cc i think it would be the sr on mastina
Drixx wasn't scumreading me.
I realize you can't trust me on that in spite of me saying, "trust me, if he were scumreading me, it would be far more obvious", but you
can
trust Cerb on that and he will tell you exactly the same thing; if Drixx were scumreading me, it would be far, far, FAR more apparent than it is.
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Post Post #2487 (isolation #167) » Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:46 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 2443, Pink Ball wrote:
In post 2434, Near x Mello wrote:pink who is scum with elena
~Near
Robert and Gamma are both good candidates
I said it to Toogeloo and it is no less true for you.
In post 2015, mastina wrote:
In post 1955, Toogeloo wrote:VOTE: Robert
Elena, Gamma, Robert.
Nope, nothing suspicious about naming consensus scumreads as your three preferred lynches, nothing at all even remotely.
It's not suspicious from you, mind you, but the sentiment's the same.
In post 2446, Pink Ball wrote:I don't think that Morality is scum because he's risking being lynched by taking a stand and pushing who he thinks is scum.
That is literally the worst reason to ever townread someone in the history of bad townreads, ESPECIALLY if you have so much as a single game's experience with Flavor Leaf, Morality, Boonskiies, or any of his accounts.
In post 2446, Pink Ball wrote:Boon is a planner and loves to be the mastermind. That means he won't risk himself 'cause for him, being lynched is equal to losing the game. It doesn't matter if his team wins at the end, he wasn't the one who got it, unless he did a gambit that implied him being lynched. But if he thinks he's the best player of his scumteam, he doesn't risk his own slot so early in the game. And he always thinks he's the best player of his scumteam.
I already deconstructed this point, on two fronts.

One: he had a safety net. He had his neighborhood hard-pocketed. He had a support network, not to mention, a scumteam he would've instructed to not bus him (albeit maybe not supporting him). How many people are in your neighborhood? Four? Five? When you add in the scum, that's like seven players not going to vote for him--nearly half the game right then and there.

Where's the risk when he has nearly half of the game under his control? He could afford to take the risk; he could afford to push hard, because there were zero consequences in doing so.

Two: he didn't have much of a choice. Vedith was lynched D1; that lynch blew the game open for the town, because it townspewed people hardcore and it also created a very effective poe pool--which you can reasonably suspect his scumteam was mostly in or dangerously close to being within.

Three: he REALLY didn't have much of a choice. He presented you with the narrative that HE challenged Wisdom and I, but that's backwards. WISDOM challenged HIM; *I* challenged HIM. He literally couldn't back down; if he backed down, he'd get lynched--the very thing you noted he would want to avoid at all costs.

Four, he himself knows that challenging big players is a way to get townread at the end of the 1v1. I can requote them if you missed these the first time where he laid out his adherence to that philosophy.
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Post Post #2488 (isolation #168) » Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:56 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 2460, Ankamius wrote:I think this game is going to need a townblock-style approach rather than the CHAINLYNCHWITHFIRE approach
No argument there.

If you iso me, I have a readslist--it's a bit obsolete, but the last one I posted can give you a fair idea of where I stand overall; prod and poke at the places you want me to go on more about and I can.
In post 2455, Near x Mello wrote:i think mastina was maybe right on rp after all
I dont like their absence here
Trust me on this.

Cerb being absent's not alignment indicative.

Or if it indicates alignment at all, it'd be of him being town.

Cerb doesn't neglect his scumgame any more than I would--not intentionally, anyway.

His absence is unfortunate, but not indicative of him being scum.

Give him time and he'll return.
In post 2461, Near x Mello wrote:
In post 2456, Pink Ball wrote:
In post 2449, Near x Mello wrote:except he probably does make risky and crazy plays like this, so no. He does think hes great like you said, and thats exactly why he didnt think hed actually be at risk here.
What I mean is, he could do a crazy play like this, but thinking it was not risky would be stupid even if your ego don't let you see it.
youre saying he thinks hes competent scum
Im telling you that justifies him playing like that even more
Can vouch for this, and again, reiterate since it was lost the first time apparently:
Flavor Leaf is fond of high-risk, high-reward gambits. The risk is always calculated, in that he knows that if he fucks up his team's fucked, but he also runs the odds OF the risk, if that makes sense.
Say the risk is total defeat, but the chance of the risk is only 1%--that's low enough for him that he'd be willing to make the play for the shot at the reward, even if knowing the risk is catastrophic if he fails.

He would know exactly the consequences of the failure, but he'd orchestrate it so that the failure was something almost impossible to happen.
Because he is that competent, and yes, it justifies him making that play even more.
In post 2473, Ankamius wrote:Mastina can you go into how you reached your PoE when you get a chance?
My current POE's a little different than my last posted one, but sure. Can do.
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Post Post #2489 (isolation #169) » Fri Feb 22, 2019 8:00 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 2476, Ankamius wrote:That's either a sign that Elena is not very good at hiding as a wolf or that I'm scumreading playstyle. The fact that it's an alt just muddies it more
Elena's publicly outed as an alt of MariaR, Ank.

Also of all of her other accounts which I can't recall the names of off the top of my head, but which you'd be familiar with since you know MariaR.

Admittedly she, and others, have said her style on Elena is particularly different from her style on MariaR, but it's the same person underneath and can give you some background info there on how to read similarities/differences in MariaR.
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Post Post #2490 (isolation #170) » Fri Feb 22, 2019 8:27 pm

Post by mastina »

Torque
Spike and Jet
Asking for a friend/Pink Ball
Chito and Yuuri
Clemency/Ankamius

Joan of Arc
singletonking
Elena Fisher
Dunnstral

Near x Mello
Reasonably Psychotic

Gamma Emerald
Almost50

Robert2424/ooba
Toogeloo
Morality/Flavor Leaf

This is my current readslist, though Gamma/Almost50 keep switching positions.

Torque has been literally THE most gamesolvey player in the entire game so far--the only playerslot even remotely close to them is Chito and Yuuri. Yes, others are scumhunting (e.g. Near x Mello), but Torque is hands-down one of the most consistent in trying to figure the game out. This is a read that is impossible to fake; the process there is incredibly organic and shows incredible original thought...and more than that, incredibly original thoughts that I can very clearly, unambiguously, see the town process behind.

Spike and Jet is a hydra of Creature and Xtoxm. While Creature's not as active as is preferable, they still have one of the highest post counts in the game; that alone should tell you all you need to know. He's a bit inactive, he's a bit apathetic, but he's still gamesolvey when present enough to a degree that it'd be difficult to fake. Xtoxm's presence also feels like it's his town self as I see glimmers of gamesolving from him, too.

Pink Ball, I hard, hard, HARD pushed on D1--but his reaction to this push spewed him hard as town. Vedith's treatment of the engagement (which contributed to why Vedith was outed as scum, mind you) also contributed to hard-spewing Pink Ball as town. There's just no realm in which he plays this way as scum, and there's no realm in which Vedith's treatment of him was that of a scumbuddy.

Chito and Yuuri are, as mentioned, second only to Torque in gamesolveyness. They have been incredibly obvtown and incredibly present, giving consistently high-quality content which shows strong original thought. Especially as a hydra, their level of content would be almost impossible to fake, especially given that the two players in question are relative unknowns. I've never heard of them in passing as being tremendously competent scum players, and for them to be scum here would require god-tiered scumplay worthy of Don Corelone nominations given just how
good
they are playing--so I don't think they are scum.

I suppose I could spew why Ankamius is town for others, but I'm mostly typing this out for her benefit so unless she wants me to describe why she's town to give her a better grasp on me or something, I'll skip this one for now.

Joan of Arc is NicoRobin is Yume is Steven Universe is Jeanne is halfadozenotheraltsatleast. This is self-evidently, quite obviously, her towngame, and her stances this game are well outside of her scum range and match perfectly with her towngame.

singletonking was spewed town by the SSBF/Vedith slot, as well as being fairly town otherwise.

Elena Fisher I already went into my townread there before; it's in my iso already if you want to look for it.

Dunnstral, this is Dunnstral's towngame--more than that, while Dunnstral has been low-key in contributing content, he has given some sharp insights that seem like scum wouldn't really think to give, sharp insights I also thought had a significant chance of being meaningful, even accurate.

Near x Mello, I've also already explained why I'm not scumreading them, but why they turned into a townread of sorts, I admit that's still limited to my neighborhood, until now. The more and more they post, the more and more I am seeing what I'd expect from a town fusion of Wisdom and Kokichi Oma. What they are doing, how they are doing it, where their focus is, how they are putting things, everything is in line with them as town.

The change on Reasonably Psychotic is similarly jarring to those not in our neighborhood. I have a feeling (call it gut if you must) that there isn't any manipulation, isn't any scum machinations, originating from their slot. More than that, in what Cerb's doing--I'm finally seeing some of the signs I look for from him when he's town, albeit not as blatant as I'd prefer.

That brings me to my POE pool.

Gamma Emerald was originally outside of my POE pool--I went into this read already, but basically, I thought she was weakly spewed as town from SSBF/Vedith. However, the points raised against her D2 weakened my read there, and I looked at her stances and realized it was at least
plausible
she was scum. I wouldn't call her
probable
scum, but the possibility is strong enough that she's in the poe pool. I still don't think she's scum, but she's a backup scum candidate, who could be scum if one of my scumreads is wrong.

Almost50, I explained why I put him into my poe pool in the neighborhood. Basically, it's a weak meta read. He was originally cleared of the poe pool--in fact, I thought his vote on SSBF spewed him as being town. But then, today, I realized something when driving home from work: literally every single time I've thought of Almost50 in a specific way, he has actually been scum that game, and I was thinking of him in that way this game.

Almost50's play this game essentially lacks "oomph". He's posting, sure, but there isn't a real strength behind his pushes; there isn't a real fire to be seen. Every time I've seen this, I've thought, "Oh I've seen Almost50 be a little apathetic as town, he looks town for these (superficial) reasons so this must be one of those off-games of his".

And yet, every time I can think of? When I had that thought, he was actually scum. The superficial reasons were superficial, skin-deep, not actually valid, and the lack of oomph wasn't from apathy, or at least not apathy born of problems beyond the keyboard; the lack of oomph was directly correlated to his alignment. And this game, Almost50 is lacking oomph, and the only reason I can really think of for having him as a townread, I'm thinking about and thinking...isn't it kinda superficial?

Ank, I could actually get REALLY good feedback from you, here.
My references for Almost50 as scum are these three games.

His towngames look more like this, this, this, and also this, plus some of this.

You've been in at least a couple of those, so you can compare them to here.

It's not like it's a definitive difference, not a night/day lock-solid foolproof metric.
But.

There IS that trend. Where as town there's just a kind of...oomph to it--one which you can still ignore but it's difficult and annoying. One which has presence enough to demand active effort to not pay attention to it.
Whereas here, I can effortlessly ignore him--I don't need to roll my eyes at him, I can just cruise by without really trying to. Something which tends to not happen when he is actually town, if that makes sense.

Robert/ooba, it's mostly that Robert's play was underwhelming. My reference for his towngame is his play here, and what he did here was just...so, so much less than what he did there. ooba's entrance into the game also felt like it was a scum entrance--all of these are weak reasons, but they do suggest a lurking/apathetic scum that got replaced.

Toogeloo and Flavor Leaf, you can just iso me for those because I've gone into them extensively, to say the least.
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Post Post #2611 (isolation #171) » Sat Feb 23, 2019 11:51 am

Post by mastina »

In post 2494, Ankamius wrote:I don't have a while lot of time currently so I won't comment on most of it, but if your PoE is accurate, I believe you have the exact team nailed since I'm currently townreading both Almost50 and Gamma Emerald.
Which is a fine way of creating a strong cognitive dissonance within me--
I NEVER have the exact scumteam pegged.
I do well.
I get in the right zone.
But I always make mistakes.
I always make oversights.
I always have a flaw in my process.

So if you're saying, "if my POE pool is accurate, I have the scumteam pegged" translates to "there's a scum I'm townreading". :P

The dissonance comes in, though...in that I really don't know who it'd be.

Honestly at this stage I think the right play is to lynch both the Flavor Leaf and Robert/ooba slots, with Toogeloo set to die tonight, and then off of a combination of roles and flips, figure out where the poe went wrong, where the poe was imperfect, with that extra info unavailable on D2.
Or I guess get a perfect town win, if I really did nail the team, but the chances of that are, statistically speaking, so astronomically low that realistically speaking, we should prepare for the assumption that 1-2 of those three flip town.

In other words:
Work under the assumption those three are the scum, but
plan
for them not all being scum; continue working on trying to get a more perfect solve, but work under the solve we currently have until such a time as we have a better one.
The best solve I've got is ooba-Toogeloo-FLslot; I'll be working with that until I have a better one.
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Post Post #2615 (isolation #172) » Sat Feb 23, 2019 12:00 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 2499, Ankamius wrote:I feel like the game is less solved than everybody thinks it is.
I know that, but I also can't figure out where I would be wrong.

Players who have been scumread outside of my poe pool most strongly are Near x Mello (who was a former scumread of mine), Reasonably Psychotic (ditto), and Elena Fisher; those three run into the same problems that ooba, Flavor Leaf, and Toogeloo do; the solve is "too easy".

But I don't want to get paranoid for no reason. Yeah, there's justifiable paranoia in me knowing I'm not
that
competent...
...Yet at the same time. I don't want us to have had locked in the scum, only to go off on a tangent and lynch town because we second-guessed the solve that was mostly right in favor of a solve that is mostly-or-entirely wrong.

Which is why I want to hold course today; even if our solve isn't right, I feel it is at least MOSTLY right--I feel we are mostly looking in the right places, and with the benefit of roles, flip, and time, we can figure out the small details we initially/currently got wrong to hone in, refine, and perfect the solve.

In other words--I feel we should stay to our current course, "it's too easy" be damned; it may feel easy, but it also feels like it's in the right direction, and changing directions would thus lead to a direction more likely to be mostly-or-entirely wrong.

Or, to put it in a common phrase:
"Perfection is the enemy of good".
I think we have a GOOD solve--not a
perfect
solve, but a GOOD one.
If we try to search for the perfect solve, we're likely to throw away the good one and end up with a shitty, entirely wrong one.

Make sense?
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Post Post #2619 (isolation #173) » Sat Feb 23, 2019 12:16 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 2503, Ankamius wrote:Like... if this is as dire a situation as it seems and FL is scum, wouldn't he have seen this kind of thing coming and made steps to prevent it?
To the limits of his ability, he did--by the time people were pushing him on D2, he was already SOLIDLY entrenched. Not partially, he was ENTIRELY entrenched, ready for anything and everything thrown his way.
In post 2503, Ankamius wrote: It seems unlikely to me that he suddenly realized he needed to pocket the entire neighborhood because his entire team got PoEd out after the fact
The team wasn't poed until after the neighborhood was pocketed. The neighborhood pocket came WELL prior to the proposed game solves we have.

Unless of course you're suggesting that Reasonably Psychotic and Near x Mello and Dunnstral (the names I dropped out of the initial poe pool) contain scum for this hypothetical scenario--THAT 'solve' may come prior to the neighborhood pocket since it happened N1, so THAT scenario is in fact unlikely, where he suddenly realized he needed to pocket the entire neighborhood because the team got POEd.

Okay I'm probably wording that poorly.
Basically, there's a conflicting timescale with that.

The scenario of "realizing he needed to pocket the neighborhood to avoid the team POE" only works with RP/NM/Dunn included as the scumteam, making it as you said not very likely...
...BUT, that's not what actually happened. He pocketed the neighborhood before the POE pool existed. Robert didn't enter it until well after D2 had started; he wasn't in it by and large until after D2 had started; the pocketing of the neighborhood happened well before the current solves were even remotely formed.

Because at the start of D2, there were a lot more people pushing players like Elena, Near/Mello, Reasonably Psychotic, etc. The first wagon of D2 WAS Reasonably Psychotic, in fact; half way to a lynch. You have the timestamps so you'd know for sure, but wasn't the neighborhood already pocketed by that point?

Which means that if the neighborhood was pocketed by that point, then it wasn't in fact "needing to pocket the neighborhood to avoid the team POE", it was more "having already pocketed the neighborhood as part of a prior plan, he utilized it to its full extent when the team poe became actually threatening", more or less.
In post 2503, Ankamius wrote:Plus with all the different wagons D1...
Context makes a difference, there. Near the end of D1, there were a bunch of different wagons--but literally none of them held any lasting momentum. Vedith's wagon remained strong throughout the day, and his play only made him look worse. His stances looked like scum, his flavor claim was impossible, and his role claim was counterclaimed.

ONE of those would be enough to earn him a lynch--maybe not inevitable, maybe something that could be fought, but something still likely to go through even if rallied against.
TWO were enough to seal his fate, condemning him for good--there was nothing which could be done to save him at that point.
ALL THREE just sealed the deal beyond any doubt. Vedith couldn't escape the noose--and the scum knew it.

The different wagons on D1 are telling, sure, but they don't tell the story of "scum could've counterwagoned Vedith but chose not to"; they tell the story of "scum tried to counterwagon Vedith but literally
couldn't
".
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Post Post #2621 (isolation #174) » Sat Feb 23, 2019 12:19 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 2533, Reasonably Psychotic wrote:There was something else I read from you mastina, that I wanted to reply to, but I don't recall what it was.
Probably me commenting on Drixx's read of me, where I said that while my word couldn't be trusted on the subject, your would and you'd vouch for what I said RE: him.
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Post Post #2623 (isolation #175) » Sat Feb 23, 2019 12:21 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 2585, Ankamius wrote:I feel like he's better than this push and I didn't like how he worded the PT point for FL-scum.
He's better than this as scum, too--much, much, MUCH better than this as scum.
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Post Post #2624 (isolation #176) » Sat Feb 23, 2019 12:27 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 2618, Ankamius wrote:I can't shake the feeling that town is being shepherded, though.
Who's the shepherd, though?

The main leaders of the town right now are myself and Near x Mello--I suppose you could give arguments about others (e.g. Torque, Chito/Yuuri), but gamesolvey as they may be, they don't have the force of personality I'd imagine a shepherd to have.

Is the shepherding being done behind the scenes?

It takes a scum player of VERY high caliber to pull that off--who in this list can do that besides myself, maybe-Almost50, Morality/Flavor Leaf, or Reasonably Psychotic. And in the case of Reasonably Psychotic, I already laid out why I don't feel this is Cerb's scum manipulation; there isn't so much as a single trace of it as far as I can see.

There's no shepherding being done publicly aside from myself/Near x Mello.
There's no shepherding being done behind the scenes as far as I can tell, aside from that which Morality/Flavor Leaf did.
So who's the scum shepherd? I don't see it if it's not Morality/Flavor Leaf.
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Post Post #2648 (isolation #177) » Sat Feb 23, 2019 12:44 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 2620, Ankamius wrote:Are you certain the vedith lynch wasn't pushed through by scum because it would solidify the rest of their positions? I'll have to look into how those wagons shifted around to have a better theory about it but I'm not sure how that wagon goes through without scum support based on the wagon sizes and speed?
Absolutely positive. It is a mixture of many factors. To quoteth mhsmith properly now:
mhsmith0 wrote:Generically you MIGHT suspect the off-wagon or non-voters more than the on wagon voters, but the only real question you need to ask was "was this lynch wagon villagery". Because if it felt villagery and righteous, you lynch off wagon, and if it was bullshit, you lynch on wagon.
The wagon on Vedith was not bullshit.

The players on there all joined, by and large, organically and naturally. The process behind the evolution there makes total sense.

Take a look at the final names there:
In post 1240, Tatsuya Kaname wrote:
Votecount 1.16

Vedith(10)
~ (85), (78), (32), (22), (82), (82), (127), (97), (58)
, (75)
-- HAMMER
Chito and Yuuri had been pushing Vedith pretty much all day long--if that was a bus, it was something they committed to, but if you give them an iso, nothing looks like they were doing it for the towncred. Everything looks like they were, genuinely, trying to gamesolve.

I had some fairly compelling reasons for voting Vedith and my vote was anything but bs.

Joan's vote was a naked one, timed such that it could be a bus, but it didn't look like one; it looked fairly natural, and she was mildly spewed town from the circumstances there.

Drixx counterclaimed Vedith.

Gamma Emerald was a counterwagon to Vedith and Vedith's posts weakly spew her as being town; if you iso Vedith searching for Gamma, it reads like a hard-pocketing attempt nigh-identical to his treatment of Pink Ball, who was immensely townspewed from the Vedith flip. I'd have to recheck the circumstances behind her vote, but it didn't feel like scum blindly bussing.

Torque was one of the main players to point out why Vedith's claimed flavor was impossible, contributing one of THE major three damning points leading to Vedith's lynch. He pretty strongly showed himself town when he did that, because his read evolution there was entirely organic and natural; the points he brought up were points that a scumbuddy bussing Vedith simply wouldn't have thought of.

Near x Mello, it has been pointed out, left the wagon on Vedith earlier only to rejoin it later when Vedith was condemned--people have said that pattern was suspicious, but my thoughts are actually the opposite. If Near x Mello wanted towncred for bussing Vedith, then they would have never left the Vedith wagon in the first place.

I can point to these votecounts among others to demonstrate that.
To a
lesser
extent, that same logic applies to Spike and Jet--they left the wagon after Vedith's roleclaim, but rejoined it after Vedith was condemned via flavor + counterclaim. If they wanted the towncred from the flip, they likely wouldn't have left in the first place. Admittedly, this is much weaker than with Near x Mello due to the psychological differences in the two hydras.

Wisdom and Kokichi Oma show conviction; they wouldn't back down from a bus if they were committed to it. Whereas Creature and Xtoxm, I fully admit, could, although I still think, wouldn't--ultimately doesn't matter much because Spike and Jet are obvtown on their own merits, for the previously described reasons.

Which leaves you with Almost50--who while not having voted Vedith, DID vote for Vedith's predecessor, SSBF. He unvoted soon after Vedith replaced in, but the fact remains he voted SSBF in a way I attributed as being quite town...making his revote on Vedith rather logical; he was returning to a prior suspicion he had dropped earlier.

Where is the scum in there?

Each and every single one of those reads, with the possible exception of Gamma Emerald, I can see evolving in a fluent, organic, natural way. I don't see scum bussing there; I see town recognizing scum and lynching them.
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Post Post #2651 (isolation #178) » Sat Feb 23, 2019 12:54 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 2625, Ankamius wrote:I'm seeing Gamma and pink ball wagons be essentially stagnant at where they are from even before vedith-slot became a decently sized wagon.
If the solve of Flavor Leaf-ooba-Toogeloo is correct, then the Pink Ball counterwagon to Vedith had
three
scum on it--not shown in any single votecount, but when you look at it, Robert was on that wagon; Morality was on that wagon; Vedith was on that wagon. The only person in the solve not on that wagon was Toogeloo.

That seems like it counts as trying-yet-failing, because failure was inevitable.
In post 2626, Ankamius wrote:Plus what stops scum from pushing the pink ball or Gamma wagons?
What makes you think they didn't?

Both proven and suspected scum voted in those wagons.

The Vedith wagon had too much going for it to fall apart; the counterwagons were all self-evidently flawed and weak, off of superficial reasoning with the sole exception of the Pink Ball wagon--which DID rival Vedith's...until Pink Ball obvtowned himself. (In fact, Pink Ball makes a nice contrast with Morality/Flavor Leaf. Both had AtE-laden moments, riddled with laced words. The difference between the two is that Pink Ball doing so revealed a town mindset; Morality/Flavor Leaf doing so was out of manipulation. But I digress.)

Pink Ball was the closest to a viable counterwagon, which is shown to have contained scum, but he made that lynch not be viable with how he obvtowned himself. Vedith meanwhile became more and more an appealing lynch because he made misplay after misplay--none of those misplays looked intentional, so much as accidental, genuine, fuckups on his part that screwed him over.
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Post Post #2658 (isolation #179) » Sat Feb 23, 2019 12:59 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 2649, Ankamius wrote:...then what exactly were scum doing, mastina?
Trying to push the counterwagons--and failing.

Because like I said.

It's
not
"scum could've pushed a counterwagon, and chose not to".
It's "scum
couldn't
push a counterwagon, but tried to".

The closest to viable was Pink Ball, but the disparity between Pink Ball and Vedith was too great.
The longer the day phase went on, the more and more abundantly clear it was that Pink Ball was town.
The longer the day phase went on, the more and more abundantly clear it was that Vedith was scum.

Yet Pink Ball remained the most viable of the wagons, simply because the reasons for the scumreads on other players were superficial and self-evidently so.
The reasons for scumreading Drixx were junk, easily shot down.
The reasons for scumreading me were more annoyance-votes than thinking I'd flip scum.
The reasons for scumreading Gamma were rather weak overall.

The scum didn't have any non-weak reasoning to push.
And because they didn't have any non-weak reasoning to push for a counterwagon.
And because Vedith had non-weak reasons to be lynched.

Vedith got lynched.

I realize the game as a whole may not be "it's just that simple".
But in terms of how D1 went?

It absolutely IS just. that. simple.

Scum had no viable counterwagons to Vedith--they tried, they failed.
It's that simple.
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Post Post #2665 (isolation #180) » Sat Feb 23, 2019 1:08 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 2655, Ankamius wrote:If pink ball obvtowned like you said they did, why did they not jump ship when the wagon was no longer viable?
To an extent?

They did.

You have to keep in mind again that Vedith was condemned by three pillars, making him beyond saving--but there's still signs they tried. Toogeloo on Gamma Emerald; Toogeloo on me; etc.

You also have to keep in mind that there was deadline to account for.

Pink Ball obvtowned himself within the last week of the deadline--if memory serves, it was about 3-4 days (give or take a day) before deadline when Pink Ball was obvtowned to the point where his lynch was impossible.

That's not much time to try and find a replacement, especially not when that same timeframe was when Vedith made blunder after blunder.
Pink Ball obtowning coincided in may ways with Vedith obvscumming.

What could the scum do to counter that?
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Post Post #2921 (isolation #181) » Sun Feb 24, 2019 11:19 am

Post by mastina »

In post 2704, Ankamius wrote:see idk how to actually GET a read on mastina I can be confident in until I've seen how she interacts with me and/or have a pretty good view of the gamestate already
Iso me.

Seriously, iso me.

That'll tell ya what you need to know.
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Post Post #2923 (isolation #182) » Sun Feb 24, 2019 11:27 am

Post by mastina »

In post 2742, Severa wrote:You are also fucking high if you think that he wasn't bussed by at least a few scum.
Other than Spike and Jet (and Vedith, obv), name them, because while Spike and Jet are in fact one of the most possible bus votes there...literally that wagon bleeds town by and large.
In post 1240, Tatsuya Kaname wrote:
Vedith(10)
~ (85), (78), (32), (22), (82), (82), (127), (97), (58)
, (75)
-- HAMMER
[/area]
Put money where your mouth is. Is the scum Chito/Yuuri? Me? Joan? Gamma? Torque? Near/Mello? Almost50?

I get it not being an all-town wagon (save Vedith). I acknowledged that a long time ago with possible scum candidates from there.

But it is still a mostly town wagon--even IF you are right on Spike and Jet,
In post 2785, Severa wrote:Town: {Ankamius, Gamma Emerald, singletonking, Chito and Yuuri, Joan of Arc, Severa, Torque, mastina}
Spike and Jet
Almost50
Near x Mello
With your stated townreads. Back this up.
Who is the scum other than Spike and Jet?
Almost50? Near x Mello? Has to be at least one to you.

Because if not.
Then no.
I'm still right, towndriven wagon was towndriven. IF he was bussed, it wasn't by "a few" scum; it was by either one, or two, scum.
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Post Post #2924 (isolation #183) » Sun Feb 24, 2019 11:33 am

Post by mastina »

In post 2751, Ankamius wrote:Mastina, Wisdom, promise me you will not drive town off a cliff if I die tonight.
I can't promise that.

What I can promise is that I'm not driving the town off a cliff
right now
, which I went into detail about in the neighborhood. Basically, picking and choosing battles. I feel like challenging Severa to name who the scum are on the Vedith wagon is a battle worth fighting, because that is an actually productive discussion, which doesn't risk derailing conversation. All of what I'm going to post right now will follow that trend (or at least I'll try my best to make it that way); I'm not going to waste the town away.

That's the best offer I can give you.
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Post Post #2925 (isolation #184) » Sun Feb 24, 2019 11:39 am

Post by mastina »

In post 2893, Reasonably Psychotic wrote:I think only mastina really thought the game was solved with Vediths lynch. She's just vocal.
It IS solved with the Vedith lynch--the Vedith lynch basically made this a game of POE, of "find the scum in the players not hard-towned".

I've never claimed that MY solve was correct, been rather adamant about the fact it probably isn't in fact, but that doesn't make my statement any less true. I fully believe in the process of the poe method blowing the game open for the town. It's just a matter of refining it, of filtering out the wrong and weak, and reinforcing the strong, to create a solid, impenetrable, townbloc.

And that's ridiculously easy with the Vedith flip.
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Post Post #2926 (isolation #185) » Sun Feb 24, 2019 11:41 am

Post by mastina »

In post 2905, Ankamius wrote:the people who have access to the PT actually knows a decent amount more about where my head's at than everyone else does
Pretty much the same with me and my PT, albeit not as much because I've been
trying
to get most of my thoughts out here, by and large.
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Post Post #3214 (isolation #186) » Wed Feb 27, 2019 8:09 am

Post by mastina »

So, singletonking was in the channel Torque and I did; the reason he died is that he targeted Severa, and per singleton's PM, that means Severa's death killed singleton.
I among others targeted Toogeloo, explaining that death.

That doesn't explain how BOTH Ankamius AND Severa died last night, tho.

Neither of them had an ability which would kill themselves as far as I can tell.

Ankamius is probably the scum factional kill, Severa probably a vig-kill, but I wouldn't call the vig inherently scum or town so don't write it off as being town yet also don't auto-lynch it; depends on the player claiming it or if it goes claimed at all.

That said:
In post 3149, Tatsuya Kaname wrote:
PUBLIC EVENT
mastina becomes Loved!

Until the end of Day 3, mastina requires one more vote to be lynched!
This was not from any action of mine; I didn't do this. I don't know who did it, either, since nobody in my neighborhood has yet claimed responsibility for it.
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Post Post #3216 (isolation #187) » Wed Feb 27, 2019 8:17 am

Post by mastina »

In post 3153, Reasonably Psychotic wrote:@mastina: reevaluate?
Ankamius was always the scum nightkill here, regardless; she was immensely obvtown, she's incredibly logical, and was also fairly influential; there isn't a single player here who was going to be more nightkillable. It's hard to really sheep her, though, because her stances pre-RC-coming-in were incomplete and most of her work post-RC-coming-in was largely sheeping him.

I can try, but her surviving neighborhood members would be better suited to the task--except, Joan's out of the thread right now. If I recall correctly, Pink Ball's a member there, so maybe he can communicate what Ankamius's full thoughts were?

RC had reason to die coming from both alignments; there are town reasons he'd be dead and scum reasons he'd be dead. Without having a gauge of which caused his death, it's impossible to really tell where he was right and where he wasn't. Most of his reads relied on Spike/Jet being scum when they weren't. Even among those that didn't, Toogeloo was a scumread of his that flipped town. I can take a look, there, but I'm not sure what to really get from it.

I want to trust them, in other words, but I don't trust my ability to trust them, if that makes sense; if I try, I'm more likely to be spitting in the face of their reads than honoring their reads.
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Post Post #3218 (isolation #188) » Wed Feb 27, 2019 8:19 am

Post by mastina »

In post 3158, SuperfluousNinja wrote:Ok so anyway, let me give you more of an actual introduction....

The only player I know here is Almost50 who I played with a few months ago. Otherwise the rest of you probably don’t know me and I don’t know you. Personally I don’t view this as a problem because I give 0 shits about meta and any meta-analysis. My reads are always entirely based on the situation and the motivations behind them. In fact it always amuses me to no end when people freely hand out playbooks to the scum team when they openly discuss “behavior X is towny of him and behavior Y is scummy”. So don’t count on me participating in any meta analysis here.

I have a few gut reactions but keep in mind that I didn’t officially inherit this role until late-ish last night and have only had about 2 hours to read up on over 3000 posts. My reads will come eventually. It does also help simply to get involved so I’m hoping to poke my head in a lot during these first few real-life days to get a better sense of you all.

Finally, anime is just an excuse for adults to keep watching cartoons and I don’t know a damn thing about anime. Shoot me.
Alright as if there were really any question...

VOTE: SuperfluousNinja.
Robert was playing in a way which loosely suggested he was scum, and the flake reeked of being an apathetic scum flakeout.
ooba's utter in-and-out without so much of a word of analysis reeked of being an apathetic scum flakeout.
And this entrance is a scum entrance.
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Post Post #3220 (isolation #189) » Wed Feb 27, 2019 8:21 am

Post by mastina »

In post 3170, Reasonably Psychotic wrote:Interesting that the first vote placed by someone who claims to have no idea about the game state is on a slot that has a decent chance of being the alternative to their own wagon.
Yes indeed.
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Post Post #3225 (isolation #190) » Wed Feb 27, 2019 8:27 am

Post by mastina »

In post 3176, Torque wrote:mastina and myself aren't touching you, I think
At least not right now.
I owe Reasonably Psychotic another look because if memory serves, both Ankamius and Severa were giving Cerb a :? look, but it's correct to say that without reevaluating I'm not touching them.

I can't say the same post-reevaluation, it really depends.
Basically, not touching them now because they are personally not someone I am suspicious of, but can't promise I won't touch them after reevaluation. We'll have to see what said reevaluation tells me.
In post 3178, Reasonably Psychotic wrote:At least, not anything compelling enough that I bothered keeping it in mind.
I made a case; Dunnstral made a case; Near x Mello made a case; all of these were individual efforts approaching the slot from multiple angles.
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Post Post #3228 (isolation #191) » Wed Feb 27, 2019 8:33 am

Post by mastina »

In post 3196, Reasonably Psychotic wrote:It *IS* a pretty grievous failing on the part of everyone, including myself, to not conclude that Toog made more sense as town than scum because their action guaranteed their lynch on D3 if scum.
Yeah no.
Toogeloo regardless of alignment was going to claim he was going to die N2 if targeted.

With him having a role that died N2 if targeted.
As scum.
He would need to tell people this fact.

He would need to tell people this fact, because if he didn't want to die, he needed this information to be public. Because the chances he'd be targeted N2 were quite high.

Toogeloo fakeclaimed as town, possible but punishable by lynch.
Toogeloo fakeclaimed as scum, possible but punishable by lynch.
Toogeloo realclaimed as town, what happened, and deserving of being tested.
Toogeloo realclaimed as scum, possible, and deserving of being tested.

Those were the only four options.
Option #2 was less likely, sure.
But option #4 wasn't. Don't pretend it was just because Toogeloo did in fact flip town.
There's no universe where a scum Toogeloo WOULDN'T claim that role when possessing it.
So don't pretend there was.
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Post Post #3229 (isolation #192) » Wed Feb 27, 2019 8:35 am

Post by mastina »

In post 3202, Reasonably Psychotic wrote:I actually think it might be town indicative. Their drive has just enough of an "eager townie chasing his own tail" vibe to it.
It's really not.
It's a cheap, easy avenue to chase after, and one which as Near x Mello points out, is entirely more likely to be going after exclusively town names.

Scum didn't have to target Toogeloo; they'd let the town do that work for them.
So chasing after those who targeted Toogeloo is chasing after players who are town.
It's an easy push, one which requires no effort to make, and it is a push on town, one which is safe to make.
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Post Post #3234 (isolation #193) » Wed Feb 27, 2019 8:47 am

Post by mastina »

In post 3219, Near x Mello wrote:mastina youve been wrong on both toog and fl. Is it time to apply bop yet?
On every front, no;
I have never been a player to which Burden of Proficiency is an applicable measurement of alignment, except by the metric of "I'd be more competent than this if I were scum";
I have stated that this is a game won by having a tight townbloc formed of rock-solid townreads, meaning that bop would only be applicable if I was wrong about a townread;
All of my townreads thusfar have been shown to be correct, from Drixx to Spike/Jet to singletonking to Ankamius.

It will be time to apply burden of proficiency when I get a townread wrong, sure.
But I haven't yet.

I already told you, for instance, that I knew my scumreads weren't going to hit the mark, even if the poe pool process was correct.
I stand by the poe pool process being correct, but I need to fine-tune it, which'll take time. (Time I don't have today, but will have within half a week. Like, Friday/Saturdayish.)
In post 3217, Joan of Arc wrote:I am still in that thread, and still able to post both there and in the main thread, though.
My mistake. I thought you had the fairly-common-theme-role of disappearing for an entire day phase to only reappear after the conclusion thereof. (You know the type, Varsoon's fond of it among other mods.)
In post 3211, Reasonably Psychotic wrote:Mastina: Same question, but about your loved modifier.
My role was female-targeting, so when I targeted Toogeloo, my action failed anyway because he was male. It wasn't part of my role. I only have two abilities (the first which I fullclaimed to my neighborhood), and the second (also mostly claimed to my neighborhood) unlocks tonight (and is not a self-targeting ability, quite the opposite in fact), so couldn't be the cause of the Loved. It also can't be because of a role switch, because that doesn't happen until tonight, either. (Mind you, I kinda sorta suspect someone maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyy have an alt-role which ties to my current role, but again. Even if so, that's not something that'd have triggered yet.)
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Post Post #3235 (isolation #194) » Wed Feb 27, 2019 8:50 am

Post by mastina »

In post 3221, Near x Mello wrote:that statement by rp was awful. SN has barely been here to know which wagon is likely to go through
Scumchat's a thing.
Even if daychat isn't.
SuperfluousNinja replaced in during the night.
And has access to however much talk has happened in each and every PT they have access to.

If in scumchat.
Or, heck.
If in a neighborhood which SuperfluousNinja has access to.
It was discussed that Reasonably Psychotic is someone that people are suspicious of.

SuperfluousNinja would be well-informed of this fact.

Also, there's the chance that SuperfluousNinja simply is faking the amount of knowledge they possess, having read more than they have implied.

So yes.
SuperfluousNinja would be well aware of this fact.
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Post Post #3240 (isolation #195) » Wed Feb 27, 2019 8:58 am

Post by mastina »

In post 3222, Reasonably Psychotic wrote:I was noting what NxM is, that part of your PoE pool has been established as town, and asking if you were going to reevaluate said pool/what changes you were making.
The POE pool was always comprised of more players than there were going to be scum.

That guaranteed that there were town within the poe pool.

It's a given that players being town within the poe pool, then, wouldn't, in of itself, cause me to reevaluate the pool.

However, in tandem with the players who died, having died--I owe it to them to do so.

But that'll take time I don't have right now.

SuperfluousNinja stays in the poe pool regardless; I can tell you that now. Severa's townread there was dependent on Spike and Jet being scum; they were not. Ankamius prior to sheeping Severa supported the lynch on SuperfluousNinja, as far as I can tell. Unless the neighborhood with them tells me that one/both of them townread the slot during the night, I don't have reason off of faith-trusting them not to keep pursuing this read, because the read has a SOLID basis to it.

Robert's posting indicated scum; Robert's flake indicated scum; ooba's flake indicated scum; SuperfluousNinja's posting indicates scum.

I realize that there are more scum in the game than SuperfluousNinja--and I realize that I need to reevaluate the poe pool to narrow it down on who those would be. But I need time to go over things, in particular, reads like Almost50. Ankamius who I trust last I knew told me he wasn't scum, but Severa last I knew was saying he was scum; Almost50's Not Voting status I found incredibly suspect, in tandem with him having been in my POE pool, so what that read comes down to, basically, is whether I trust Ankamius or trust Severa plus myself.

As just one example of a read I need to investigate more. I don't have that kind of time today; I'll have it within half a week.
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Post Post #3241 (isolation #196) » Wed Feb 27, 2019 9:03 am

Post by mastina »

In post 3226, Reasonably Psychotic wrote:You're missing the point. The fact that they haven't been here long enough to be aware of the game state yet unerringly zeroed in on the most viable counterwagon to their own lynch is weak evidence of coaching/input from their teammates on how to save that slot for whoever the replacement was.
Pretty much, yeah.
In post 3227, Near x Mello wrote:i dont agree youre "the most viable counterwagon", thats your own manipulative words to make your point
Okay.

Who is, then?
With Toogeloo and Severa both dead at night.

Who is the most viable counterwagon to SuperfluousNinja?

Name names, here.

Because Reasonably Psychotic is a damn fucking plausible one in my eyes. Suspicion has been on the slot all game, and from notable players no less; I pushed it until midway through D2, and both Severa and Ankamius (dead town players notable for being charismatic) pushed them as possible scum as well, meaning that people performing NKA are likely to finger Reasonably Psychotic as scum.

Who would you name as a more probable counterwagon? The list of options is quite thin. Especially since counterwagons are going to, by the standard of "counterwagon to the scum wagon", being likely not to be on scum.
So if you think that, for instance, hypothetically, Elena and SuperfluousNinja would be scum together, then Elena's disqualified from being a viable counterwagon to SuperfluousNinja.
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Post Post #3243 (isolation #197) » Wed Feb 27, 2019 9:08 am

Post by mastina »

In post 3228, mastina wrote:
In post 3196, Reasonably Psychotic wrote:It *IS* a pretty grievous failing on the part of everyone, including myself, to not conclude that Toog made more sense as town than scum because their action guaranteed their lynch on D3 if scum.
Yeah no.
Toogeloo regardless of alignment was going to claim he was going to die N2 if targeted.

With him having a role that died N2 if targeted.
As scum.
He would need to tell people this fact.

He would need to tell people this fact, because if he didn't want to die, he needed this information to be public. Because the chances he'd be targeted N2 were quite high.

Toogeloo fakeclaimed as town, possible but punishable by lynch.
Toogeloo fakeclaimed as scum, possible but punishable by lynch.
Toogeloo realclaimed as town, what happened, and deserving of being tested.
Toogeloo realclaimed as scum, possible, and deserving of being tested.

Those were the only four options.
Option #2 was less likely, sure.
But option #4 wasn't. Don't pretend it was just because Toogeloo did in fact flip town.
There's no universe where a scum Toogeloo WOULDN'T claim that role when possessing it.
So don't pretend there was.
And if you think this is post-flip logic.

I detailed this exact process in the neighborhood on D2.

I knew precisely what I was doing, when targeting him.
I was perfectly aware that he as scum wasn't going to fakeclaim something provable/testable that would lead to his death. (Barring pgo, that is, which I wasn't afraid of for ~reasons~. Reasons my neighborhood know of.)
I didn't care, because that scenario not being the case didn't make Toogeloo more likely town. It just meant that Toogeloo didn't take one possible path which was available to him if he were scum.
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Post Post #3246 (isolation #198) » Wed Feb 27, 2019 9:15 am

Post by mastina »

In post 3231, Reasonably Psychotic wrote:I think the problem with your reasoning is that for scum!toogeloo with this role, the chances of being targeted N2 are much higher if everyone knows about it
Why?

Why, in of itself, would claiming that role.
Divorced from all other factors.
Make people want to target Toogeloo?

When in tandem with Toogeloo's play, yes, it would.
Because people were scumreading Toogeloo.
But remove the scumread from the equation, because Toogeloo gained suspicion as time passed. (He was virtually inconspicuous on D1; nobody was paying attention to him until after his claim, pretty much.)
Why would the claim, in of itself, cause people to target him?
What if, instead of him being scumread, he ended up being townread?

Would the town then be targeting him after that claim?

No, they would avoid targeting him, knowing it'd be killing 'town'.

Toogeloo's claim made perfect sense coming from scum actually having that role, because as scum with that role, he would need to claim it. And if he successfully garnered townreads, then he wouldn't be targeted.

That's not a stretch. That's perfectly logical, viable scumplay. His claim of his role came prior to the attention on his slot by and large. He had no way of anticipating people would want him dead that badly because of his play.

It was, ultimately, not the case; Toogeloo was in fact town.
It did not mean the logic was weak/suspect.

It's another case, in fact, of the points being objectively fine/good, but also not being right. (Same metric which I gauged Pink Ball by, mind you.)
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Post Post #3249 (isolation #199) » Wed Feb 27, 2019 9:18 am

Post by mastina »

In post 3232, SuperfluousNinja wrote:Am I supposed to believe that with the excessive amount of thinking and analysis you have done so far in this game, it didn’t occur to you to try and figure out why Toog revealed this about himself?
Nope!

Am I supposed to believe that you can't parse the fact that Toogeloo's claim was entirely not-alignment-indicative, thus, irrelevant to people?
In post 3232, SuperfluousNinja wrote:Can you explain why you weren’t at all suspicious of targeting a player who you thought was scum and told you exactly how to kill him? Why wouldn’t it occur to you that this could be a trap?
It did.
I had countermeasures for any trap Toogeloo could've possessed.

That's why I was so adamant about targeting him. I knew that if he was, say, fakeclaiming and had a real role of pgo, it'd be nullified.
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