Open 749 | Vengecop - Over!
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Dannflor he/himSurvivor
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Hm. I like where Micc is coming from where we basically give ourselves two lynches or two attempts to kill a consensus scum read if we're wrong the first time. At least that's how I'm understanding him. If we mislynch, the investigation will probably end up coming down to that individual's reads however and who they personally think is scummiest. And that's probably for the best, it prevents scum from trying to influence the consensus reads too much and controlling what the investigations are.
@BBmolla, what are you hoping to get out of self voting in RVS?- Dannflor
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His entrance feels mostly NAI because it's all setup spec, would like to see less of that moving forward. Though I do like that he was just presenting options and not pushing one strategy in particular.In post 43, Creature wrote:If most of Micc's posts are like this, I wouldn't mind voting him.
VOTE: xwingIn post 35, xwing wrote:@dr worm: what's your plan?
@creature, why is it a great start??
@bbmolla, why the self vote? you need some help there?
Three extremely empty questions. One's been asked already and the others aren't helpful. Xwing, how are your Creature and Dr Worm questions gonna help you get reads?- Dannflor
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Why don't you vote it?In post 37, Vedith wrote:I think Xwing is Scum.
I kinda agree with him on xwing, tbh. And his attitude towards RVS is obviously a jokeIn post 50, Micc wrote:I don’t like this take at all- Dannflor
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That makes sense. I like your response, I think town is generally more likely to admit when they suck at early game or when they're actions could be more questionable.
I'll join you on BBMolla, VOTE: BBMolla
@BBMolla, I feel like you might be trying to gain town cred by gambiting that you're willing to be lynched to reveal scum. But if you're town, why would you want to trade your life for the chance of revealing scum vs. going after someone else to start with?
Also, xwing, what don't you like about Dr Worm?- Dannflor
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Vedith is... weird. I have a difficult time getting a handle on him but I think I'm more prone to town read his jokey/forward style. It reads less like just shit posting and more like trying to get reactions out of people, which is what I think town with that playstyle would do.
See I pushed here because I felt some dissonance between that game and this. In that game xwing started fencesitty and didn't really push anywhere themselves, this game they took some initiative but not in a way I thought was very genuine. #76 is much townier however and matches up with that game a lot more, imoIn post 82, Draco Lucky wrote:At first I thought maybe Dannflor was pushing xwing to see if they reacted in the same manner they did last game in Mewtaph's mini. I thought it was a weird push given the play here was really similar but figured I'd let it go.- Dannflor
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In post 85, Draco Lucky wrote:What about #76 makes you feel that way?
The bolded in particular is what pinged me as familiar and just generally towny, SlaxxIn post 76, xwing wrote:if it was sarcasm, then i didnt get it..
anyway you're right, i suck at very early game, so i generally try to come in games when there's already more content..
anyway, i dont feel good about dr. worm,but all the jumping around makes me rethink..
creature wanting to stay in RVS is pinging me..
bbmolla self voting action is questionable..i find self-voting as a really dubious move regardless of alignment..
there's nothing much to go on yet, really..i dont think im good with small talk and starting stuff.....- Dannflor
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What do you want to talk about?In post 92, Draco Lucky wrote:Do we want to wait to talk about the BB stuff until he responds?- Dannflor
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Both these slots are town imoIn post 156, Vedith wrote:We should lynch Draco a d if Draco town Draco then picks xwing.
UNVOTE: BBMolla
He's not quite towny but he's definitely not scum. I just don't see the scum motivation for entering the game with a self vote, drawing all that attention, and then continuing to play the way he's playing. My theory was that it was a play for town cred by acting as if he'd be okay with his lynch because he'd get an investigation. But that doesn't really fit with his play of "looking for reactions" + not reading the thread. It's sloppy play, and I think mafia would be more careful here, particularly since they entered the game with such a risky move.
Vedith, is this where your lock town on BBmolla is coming from? Also, why is Draco a scum read- Dannflor
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In post 132, 0verki11 wrote:PLs are anti town as fuckIn post 141, 0verki11 wrote:lynching scum is better than lynching bad town and im always standing by that.
"Look at me I'm so town"In post 179, 0verki11 wrote:Ill vote later but im not voting for a PL.
VOTE: Overkill
You complain about lack of content in your "wall" but... provide nothing? You don't even vote.
Yes, my post was unironic. If you have a real problem with my logic point it out so we can discuss it. Don't just throw random shade
I didn't know who I wanted to pressure next, and pressuring BB when he's intent on keeping his vote on his own slot feels unproductive too. He's anti-town but not scum.In post 196, Dr Worm wrote:I don't APPRECIATE DANNNFLOR and XWINGS unvoting BBMOLL and NOT VOTING new person!! WHY NOT JUST LEAVE VOGE ON BBMOOL FOR PRESSURE?? Why NEED to LOOK like AGREEMENT WITH OTHERS??
I'm confused on this train of thought, when did Molla bring town PRs to attentionIn post 211, Vedith wrote:But all town are PRs. Scum!Molla never brings that attention to the table.
I follow your case on me, I'm not following why you think it makes xwing scum as well
Your issue is focus and I agree my vote was lazier. But xwing was focused on BB in their vote? I'm not sure what the difference is in your mind behind xwing's questioning and Micc's statement- Dannflor
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I honestly misread it and I think I've mentioned before I just have a hard time parsing your posts in general, probably just style differencesIn post 222, Vedith wrote:I really didn't like Danns response to me though and I feel he was intentially mis reading what I was saying.
I thought you were painting me and xwing as buddies but you actually meant only one of us is scum in your mind, yea? If one of us flips red does that clear the other?
In response to your Overkill point, I think scum has a lot to gain by pushing big empty posts. The question is how well they are put together/if they can get away with it. Overkill's attempt wasn't very good but I think it combined with his early posting (especially rallying against a policy lynch like 3 separate times) comes from scum weakly trying to look town instead of town just being useless imo
Also, at risk of xwing suspecting me of pocketing them, their paranoia about me potentially pocketing them is a pretty town instinct imo- Dannflor
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Hi RC
BBMolla, Dr Worm, Draco, and xwing is my town pool atm.
The observations Dr Worm makes in posts like #283, #277, #196, and #108 read genuine and come from a town place imo. I also don't think he draws so much attention with wanting to vote Overkill at the end of the day yesterday. Though I'll admit I've also just been endeared by his posting style
Draco's been one of the more actively questioning and solving slots in the game. I feel like this slot is obv town. I also don't think scum pushes on me using something as complex as his specific meta with both me and xwing and then backs off of it so easily.
xwing, aside from her very first post I think just matches what I know about her town game pitch perfect. +++ points for being paranoid that I'm pocketing her.
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VOTE: MiccIn post 333, Micc wrote:What makes you think scum was voting him early on? It feels like there was bussing to me, but later in the wagon.
Or maybe there was scum off the wagon
In post 234, Micc wrote:I'm annoyed that this bbmolla wagon has fallen apart.In post 235, Micc wrote:Can someone sell me on the Dannflor wagon? I think I like it but am having a hard time putting words to why.
You complained about the BBmolla wagon falling apart (which it did for good reason) and then just stayed on it as the only vote for the rest of the day. BBmolla was the definition of a vanity wagon while you in post #235 desperately tried to get ppl to help you shift wagons in way that would look natural. If you think you like my wagon, vote it instead of asking for people's approval.In post 322, Micc wrote:heh. this wagon was fine but rushing to the lynch is stupid. I'm hoping for the best but I don't like the chances.
End of the day post may not be AI on its own but I still think it's pretty bad considering context. You stayed on your vanity wagon despite sayingmultipleother wagons were "fine" or "good," and then proceeded to note vote them. I know the wagon went fast, but why did you stay on BBmolla?- Dannflor
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In post 348, Vedith wrote:
What push?In post 345, Dannflor wrote:I also don't think scum pushes on me using something as complex as his specific meta with both me and xwing and then backs off of it so easily.In post 82, Draco Lucky wrote:At first I thought maybe Dannflor was pushing xwing to see if they reacted in the same manner they did last game in Mewtaph's mini. I thought it was a weird push given the play here was really similar but figured I'd let it go.
I don't like the reason for the unvote on xwing, it feels like it could be contrived.
The wagon vote on BBmolla for an RVS self-vote is what set me over the edge.
VOTE: Dannflor
Predit: Xwing...nope.
-Slaxx- Dannflor
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He used a game that had just finished with both me and xwing in it to push on me because the behavior seemed different here as opposed to then. It was a very specific moment he was talking about and doesn't seem like something scum would think of to arbitrarily push on me. Even if he did pick something like that to push me for, I don't know why he basically drops it a bit later, especially when other people (like you) were voicing suspicion on meIn post 354, Vedith wrote:Wait, what?- Dannflor
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In post 82, Draco Lucky wrote:At first I thought maybe Dannflor was pushing xwing to see if they reacted in the same manner they did last game in Mewtaph's mini. I thought it was a weird push given the play here was really similar but figured I'd let it go.
I don't like the reason for the unvote on xwing, it feels like it could be contrived.
The wagon vote on BBmolla for an RVS self-vote is what set me over the edge.
VOTE: Dannflor
Predit: Xwing...nope.
-SlaxxIn post 85, Draco Lucky wrote:What about #76 makes you feel that way?
@Xwing: It’s Slaxx.
I’m in a hydra.
-SlaxxIn post 92, Draco Lucky wrote:Okay. I think I get the xwing stuff.
Do we want to wait to talk about the BB stuff until he responds?
-Slaxx
He wasn't tunneling but it was definitely a non RVS push. He changes his mind later, but if he's scum, idk why he'd suddenly switch to Overkill when he had reasons to push me and there was some support for my wagon.In post 236, Draco Lucky wrote:
Nah.In post 235, Micc wrote:Can someone sell me on the Dannflor wagon? I think I like it but am having a hard time putting words to why.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: OverKill
I took a day off and reread the thread. I was confbiasing on Dann and U2 talked me out of it. There is a lot of LAMIST coming from OK with basically no reasoning for any of the few stances they have taken.
Also, there's one really bad vote over the past page or two that indicates a possible buddy. But we will let that stew for a bit.
-Slaxx- Dannflor
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I mean we have different definitions of push igIn post 357, Vedith wrote:He made 1 post about it. How is that a push?
It wasn't a hard push but he was scum reading and voting for me, what do I call that- Dannflor
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Okay, this just just feels like semantics, but I guess you're right. It definitely wasn't as much of a push as I originally perceived it being.In post 360, Vedith wrote:It call it someone voting for you. But okay.
No? I feel like we're just gonna argue semantics again so I'll just try to explain myself w different words
Town just wants to scum hunt and town hunt, I guess you could call that an agenda. His posts don't ping as contrived in that sense, it feels like he's actively sorting people.
What specifically pings you guys about his posts?- Dannflor
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hm also Creature was one of the people who voted Micc yesterday and was still on him at the end of the day
Might not mean much but I don't remember Creature being super widely town read or anything
Micc, if you think scum was on the back half of the wagon, and you obviously thought BBmolla was a great wagon, why aren't you voting him?- Dannflor
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Was I not clear? It reads like fence sitting. You call multiple wagons good and wait for the approval or encouragement of others before you're willing to move.In post 368, Micc wrote:I'm not sure how you're equating me being willing to lock down other reads to being scum.
You also do nothing to keep pushing BBMolla or convince others to vote him besides complain- Dannflor
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Did you miss this post? A good reads list imo that did express strong scum reads, one on Overkill before he was hammered. He seems pretty confident in scum!overkill here, so I don't get your point.In post 237, Draco Lucky wrote:Slaxx and I finally got a chance to compare reads this evening for a couple minutes, so here's where we're at. Apparently I'm in a verbose mood this evening, so I spoiled this monster for your convenience.
Spoiler: Town Reads
Spoiler: Dissonance Reads
Spoiler: Scum Reads
Spoiler: Null Reads
p.edit guess i don't need to do the vote ;P
Although Draco, reading this back, how did you guys progress from Micc as a pretty strong town so who you want to push today? Why not PP since he was your guys' second scum read?- Dannflor
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don't think it's a strong reasonIn post 382, Vedith wrote:I was wondering if Scum would use Creature voting Micc as reason for Micc Scum.
missed that Creature was down on Draco, that's a good point, Creature didn't do a bunch else- Dannflor
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something I actually agree with Vedith onIn post 384, Vedith wrote:I'm confident that Molla is town.- Dannflor
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Was Draco your super confident scum read? Why?In post 376, RadiantCowbells wrote:i doubt it's both of them right now
honestly i think it's draco and micc and they're crossvoting but im less sure on micc- Dannflor
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So, I agree here. However, I don't know it's necessarily AI for Vedith, but I do think it's a sign he's tunneled up the wrong tree.In post 479, Draco Lucky wrote:In retrospect, I really don't like how Vedith went from asking me where i implied OK was obv!scum to "showing 100% confidence." In the moment I wasn't sure where the 100% thing came from, but in retrospect, he pulled it out of his ass.
-U2
In post 237, Draco Lucky wrote:0verki11 is the scummiest person in the game right now. Others have shied away from calling his underwhelming wall post scummy, but it's reaally scummy. Announce a wall post and then spend the majority of it on setup spec is pretty meh to begin with. Saying that he's doing it for himself like he's doing his make-up (nothing wrong with that) and then doing it is even worse. And his reasoning for how it was a reminder felt fabricated. That post and his response to me in 172 and 218 are the entirety of the content from this slot. Slaxx agrees this slot is scummy.
Like I don't think you can read that and say Draco never had a solid read of scum before the hammer. The switch to "100%" phrasing is weird, and Draco's confidence ensuing the hammer doesn't read to me that he knew what the flip was going to be, but I think it's just more of Vedith's pursuing specific phrasing and semantics which he also did with me. Could be town trying to really dig into the details of things and getting reactions or scum misinterpreting things and trying to make points where there are none. I don't know enough about Vedith's playstyle to say it's super AI in either direction.In post 372, Vedith wrote:The reason I say this is Draco never showed certain read of Scum until after the hammer. And the push was pretty weak and hardly existent anyway.
Huh? His most recent posts are (admittedly bad) AtE, but there was none of that when he came in today nor in D1. I'm just not jiving with the reads of Draco because his "play sucks" either because his D1 play never pinged me as poor.In post 502, PenguinPower wrote:Your play sucks and is full of ate that makes you seem uberscummy. I kinda want to lynch you just so I don't have to keep reading it.
Draco, while I agree with you, and I believe the u2/Slaxx thought process it took to get here (that reads pretty genuine), I can't help but feel like you're just copying my case exactly from the start of the day on Micc. What do you think specifically of his posts so far today?In post 523, Draco Lucky wrote:Overkill is at 3 votes when the first two posts come
The first one is a nudge for people to reevaluate BBmolla rather than go to OK
The second is begging for someone to give him a reason he can use to join the counter wagon.
The third, after we put OK to L-2, is a softball to OK, and another stab at *any* other wagon
And the last one is something I've seen from scum - like Pintu and there's another somewhere in my past games - where scum are low key salty that the wagon on their partner went quick, depriving them of the opportunity to shift it off scum. They just can't quite repress that emotion
-U2
I thought Draco was your near 100% confident read? I'm confused how worm takes priority over him for youIn post 516, RadiantCowbells wrote:i'm actually kind of reluctant to strongarm in a game where you guys hit scum d1
but worm is the best lynch ToDay
I'd like Micc to take some actual stances on this game, post some reads that aren't just asking people for the go ahead. The progression at the end of yesterday + OK's flip just sticks out in mind so much and if Micc is actually town there he needs to actually start scum hunting. I'm especially curious if he keeps pushing the BBmolla wagon over anything else.- Dannflor
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sadIn post 531, RadiantCowbells wrote:I never had an 100% scumread tbh I just hoped someone would react scummily to that statement
Still, you had Draco as lolwolf in your last reads list. Does a worm flip give more info or are you just more confident in a red flip there now?- Dannflor
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^^^^In post 636, Draco Lucky wrote:
This interaction alone makes Micc the better lynch than us and to not see it is just dumb.In post 236, Draco Lucky wrote:
Nah.In post 235, Micc wrote:Can someone sell me on the Dannflor wagon? I think I like it but am having a hard time putting words to why.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: OverKill
I took a day off and reread the thread. I was confbiasing on Dann and U2 talked me out of it. There is a lot of LAMIST coming from OK with basically no reasoning for any of the few stances they have taken.
Also, there's one really bad vote over the past page or two that indicates a possible buddy. But we will let that stew for a bit.
-Slaxx
If we were scum here we take the out and double on Dannflor to avoid OK, or, you know, ask for the out onto another wagon like Micc did.
Micc completely softballed OK up until lynch. This isn't rocket science.
Sorry if I spooked you with the marathon game RC, but I don't buss if I don't need to. It was imperative there, I don't do it D1 here. We were doing fine stance-wise within the town and had people open to non-OK wagons.
We did this because were were trying to lynch scum.
End of fucking story.
-Slaxx
This is basically what I was trying to explain to Vedith earlier when I said I liked Draco's progression on me. The fact that they gave up on the push on me so easily just doesn't make sense as scum. There was support for it, yet instead he chooses to jump on his buddies wagon? It doesn't make sense to let go of the scum read on me and it makes less sense to choose to join the OK wagon instead of pushing other wagons that were probably still viable at the time.- Dannflor
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Don't have too much else to comment on the last few pages. I'm waiting for Micc to return and respond to stuff but he seems to have disappeared which is unfortunate. This slot needs to actually do something though and his progression yesterday is still the worst out of any slot in the game imo
Vedith's push on Draco is in bad faith, not actually looking at the chain of events of Draco's D1 progression and twisting Draco's behavior late day one. you're confbiasing extremely here Vedith or trying to drive a mislynch
PP/Draco just feels like town v town getting pissed at each other for basic miscommunications.- Dannflor
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In post 647, Dr Worm wrote:
MY BRAIN JUST TOLD ME XWANG IS TROWN!!In post 644, Dannflor wrote:Dr Worm what are your reads on players not named Vedith?
PONGYPOWER still TROWN!!
BBMOOLA TROWN!!
HEART says DRACO TROWN but BRAIN not sure!! same with DANNFLO!!
What do you think of the Micc and Draco wagons? You haven't commented on them at allIn post 648, Dr Worm wrote:PROBLEM is my HEART says ALL lynch wagon is TROWN!! TOO MUCH TROWN!!- Dannflor
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Maybe? I personally feel like Draco's done a lot today that people are just dismissing. A lot of the times when I see scum attacked they go full defensive mode but forget that they're also supposed to be scum hunting and finding who is town. Town will defend themselves of course but also still be trying to sort and progress the game even if they are going to die.In post 649, Vedith wrote:I'm not sure why Town would get worried about being lynched this early with the setup.
Draco seems more worried about being lynched imo and that's scummy.
Some of Draco's AtE is icky but I'm not convinced it's not just frustrated town and he still seems intent on solving the game regardless of the amount of pressure on him
I'm also not seeing the discussion between Slaxx and U2 in #504 as faked- Dannflor
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In post 710, Draco Lucky wrote:I mean, if you've got a compelling case for other slots, let's do it.
I'm hard pressed to reevaluate micc without that input, though.
-U2- Dannflor
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I mean I just don't really know what to say to thisIn post 728, RadiantCowbells wrote:Scum two:Dannflor
First major point of contention here is the sheer lack of content from the slot.
Despite the fact that Dannflor ended up on the correct scum lynch D1 (which I consider relatively meaningless in this situation where I know that there was almost certainly at least 1 busser) they have a lot less content in general than I would expect them to and that's the first major reason I've been interested in them.
Beyond that a lot of the reasons that I think that they are scum individually are hard to do justice outside of just saying that my gut says that it's right.
But what I can talk about is how I think that their associations are transparently scum vs scum and I will do that now.
You have
1. Content/Activity
2. Gut
3. Associations w Vedith
For the first point, I'm not really sure what you mean? Could you specifically quote posts of mine you feel lack content or are just posting for the sake of posting (which is what I think? you're getting at here)? If it's activity related, I will freely admit I've not been as invested in this game as others, and combined with my lack of free time the last few weeks means my overall posting might be lower here, but I have been trying my best to make it count when I get the time/energy.
And I can't respond to 2/3 because you can't/won't case them yet. It just seems like such a weak read for you to be so certain that you've solved the game.
Also, help me understand this because maybe I'm misinterpreting. Vedith's play doesn't mesh with what you'd expect him and I being partners to be? I thought half your case on me was associations.In post 771, RadiantCowbells wrote:Your play meshes exactly with what I would expect with wolf buddies with Dannflor here.
Vedith's play... does not at all mesh with what I would expect from wolf buddies with Dannflor here.
I still think the best play is what you said earlier: Lynch Micc, if he flips town, have him investigate me. If he flips scum, the last partner is likely among Vedith/RC. Probably Vedith over RC because I highly doubt RC would be so brazen in his defense of Micc if he's buddies with him.- Dannflor
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That was a really unfortunate end of day phase in the end, though I'm a little surprised those both ended up flipping town
It means I have to revisit my reads because while I still believe the Micc/Junko slot is most likely scum I'm having a little trouble seeing a partner right off the bat.- Dannflor
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less color variety rainbow reads list \o/
- I feel like a lot of attention is going to go here next after the flips but I... still think this is town? Re-ISOing Draco today has just strengthened this read honestly. For starters, I don't think #793 ever actually comes from scum. PP is town for this too but (obviously) that's irrelevant. Basically, scum doesn't hop on this wagon like this ever. Instead of staying on the safer Micc wagon Draco shifted in a rather blunt way to a mislynch. That move makes Draco one of the prime investigation targets that night (Vedith probably chose PP for similar reasons), which compounds with the fact he'd already faced a good amount of pressure/suspicion. I don't know why a scum!Draco here wouldn't just stay on the wagon he was already on and let the lynch go through without him, it would've attracted a lot less attention. I suppose it's possible he thought he was already doomed and wanted to ensure a mislynch would go through, but that seems highly questionable to meDraco
I still don't think the conversation in #504 is faked. It's a very high level of detail and I don't think it's a tactic scum uses to try and save their ass. I town read his entire attitude throughout the game, particularly in posts like #517 where despite being under pressure he's still showing a drive to solve the game and asks RC to challenge his reasoning on certain slots. Overall, he seems like somewhat frustrated town that's still trying to solve despite being under pressure.
- So, a couple people have said my argument for BBMolla is just "too wolfy to be wolf" and not a great basis. I guess that's part of it, but I also don't think there's scum motivation in entering the game like he did and not reading the thread. I'm not trying to read effort as alignment indicative, but I do think his initial vote coming into the game comes from a town place, and his lack of detailed followup does not come from a scum place. Scum would want to milk the shit out of that and analyzing people's reactions to his self vote in order to appear towny.BBMolla
Other than that, I do think there's just some things BBMolla has said that scum just... don't? #173 and #197 are the best examples of this. Don't think scum admits to skimming the thread, at least not so readily. Don't think scum tosses out a free town read on what could be a lynch-baity slot depending on the player list's reactions to Dr Worm.
Oh also the fact that OK was one of the people who tried to invalidate my town read on BBmolla early makes me think it's correct
- Mixed on this slot. Kinda worried my early paranoia here was correct, and that I just gave xwing what they needed to be more familiarly town!xwing in my eyes. This is probably a slot I should do a proper meta dive on when I get the time, because a lot of my gut feelings on this slot comes from a sample size of 1 game I completed with them.xwing
Reading back over the previous day, I was looking for people that were playing *not* to be investigated. Especially as a potential Micc partner, xwing really fits this bill imo. #606 and #663 ping me the most. In the first, xwing soft-defends Micc and then votes BBmolla, someone I'm pretty sure is town but also someone no else had really expressed interest in voting. It's a vanity vote, especially when the main two wagons of the day (excluding the surprise Vedith one) had already been established. BBmolla was never gonna be the lynch yesterday, and it's not like xwing really tries to sway people over to this wagon, which they should be doing if they really believe this slot is scum. It's too safe of a vote.
The second post also reads like someone not trying very hard to get people to vote bbmolla, and from my experience with xwing I feel like they're a stronger player than that.
1) reason for scum read is based on style? but also says they can't read the style
2) ignores the explanation bbmolla did give for voting micc that was pretty valid
3) fair ig, but had already been discussed
4) not a reason
Overall, just a very weak vanity vote that ignores the main wagons and doesn't really try to start a new one or take any strong stances. From what I know, I feel like xwing can be stronger than this as town, but tonally, they're very similar to my meta with them. next thing I do here is a proper meta dive and try to do it as objectively as possible
- The Worm pinged me on reread for mostly the same reasons xwing did. It's a vanity vote that looks more like an attempt to avoid being investigated than actually looking for scum. Worm's reasoning for his vote is much stronger than xwings. However, the reasoning was essentially setup preflip by Worm in D1, so I don't think a scum!worm setting up a place to go D2 that doesn't look too suspicious is out of the question. His reads on the two most likely wagons to go through yesterday were "Draco is town by heart but brain not sure" (fence sitty but doesn't invite suspicion) and "micc scum by poe". Neither are particularly strong stances and especially if the Draco lynch is town it's a good way to avoid an investigation there.Dr Worm
#650 kinda does the same thing except it's trying to lowkey pocket the person he's voting? It seems like a useless post to make otherwise as it's not enough for him to actually change his vote. I also find it weird that Dr Worm doesn't question or try to poke at the Draco push more considering he had him as a town lean. However, I still town read a few of his earlier observations on specific players that I've mentioned before. Since I think Micc is very likely scum, I think it's likely only 1 of xwing/Worm is scum
- I've explained why already. Still think this is probably the best lynch and should have happened yesterday. I'll vote here in 24 hours, just want to give a chance for others to post reads after flips and give time for me to get a few more of my thoughts together. I don't really trust people won't just speed lynchMicc/Junko
tldr:micc/junko still good lynch - one of dr worm or xwing as prob partner
draco/bbmolla town (and pp obviously)- Dannflor
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also xwing what was the purpose of this question?In post 606, xwing wrote:what do you think are your major contributions in this game for this particular day, and why?- Dannflor
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Possibly? I think RC was more likely killed because Vedith said he’d investigate him. I’m not putting a ton of stock in his reads because he was both wrong in his solve, you’re pretty confident town, and Micc is pretty confident scumIn post 811, Draco Lucky wrote:In post 758, RadiantCowbells wrote:
btw i suspect creature was killed because this is rightIn post 113, Creature wrote:I'll come up and say Mr Worm, PP and xwing are town
this seems relevant. Added note: RC later said that he had micc too low on the listIn post 759, RadiantCowbells wrote:{RC, PP, xwing, worm}
molla ????
{Micc, Draco}
{Vedith, Dannflor} btw
-U2- Dannflor
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One of either Dr Worm or xwing imo.In post 823, Draco Lucky wrote:
yeah, im sure vedith had something to do with the kill. Not arguing that.In post 821, Dannflor wrote:Possibly? I think RC was more likely killed because Vedith said he’d investigate him. I’m not putting a ton of stock in his reads because he was both wrong in his solve, you’re pretty confident town, and Micc is pretty confident scum
Same question to you as Dr. Worm, though.
Who is scum!Junko's partner?
-U2- Dannflor
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See post #809In post 827, Draco Lucky wrote:In post 826, u r a person 2 wrote:
any association based tells for these, or just poe?In post 825, Dannflor wrote:One of either Dr Worm or xwing imo.- Dannflor
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Have we played together before besides in Winter's Sacrifice? What do you know about my scum game? Or have you meta'd me?In post 833, JunkoChan wrote:Dannfloor: this is town dann gameplay no doubts, he is usually more fency as scum
because this seems like a lazy attempt to pocket me tbh- Dannflor
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Oh unless you're drawing from marathon games, which I guess that might be a fair assessment, not sure those should be the basis of a meta read though
Why is Draco a stretch when you also said they could be mafia?In post 834, JunkoChan wrote:If bbmolla is not the partner then maybe it's draco but that's a stretch- Dannflor
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In post 809, Dannflor wrote:BBMolla - So, a couple people have said my argument for BBMolla is just "too wolfy to be wolf" and not a great basis. I guess that's part of it, but I also don't think there's scum motivation in entering the game like he did and not reading the thread. I'm not trying to read effort as alignment indicative, but I do think his initial vote coming into the game comes from a town place, and his lack of detailed followup does not come from a scum place. Scum would want to milk the shit out of that and analyzing people's reactions to his self vote in order to appear towny.
Other than that, I do think there's just some things BBMolla has said that scum just... don't? #173 and #197 are the best examples of this. Don't think scum admits to skimming the thread, at least not so readily. Don't think scum tosses out a free town read on what could be a lynch-baity slot depending on the player list's reactions to Dr Worm.
Oh also the fact that OK was one of the people who tried to invalidate my town read on BBmolla early makes me think it's correct- Dannflor
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Why do you consider me hard-to-read?In post 837, JunkoChan wrote:I've meta'ed you as well as some othe hard-to-reads like worm and PP, but meta is useless for PP cuz he is already conf-town- Dannflor
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I have good reasons to suspect you. I understand you were the first on the OK wagon, but I don't think it impossible you moved there and then felt stuck as everyone else started piling on.In post 847, xwing wrote:Spoiler: wall ahead
TLDR:
im slightly annoyed at dann but think he's town (not personal, just in game..)
im slightly butt hurt at dann's susp, but im town.. (not your fault dann, we're good..)
draco seems town, but i cant get a confident enough of a read to call it strong..
i believe it could be bb/dr worm scum team.. (dont ask for assoc, i dont know, i dont hunt like this)..
JC at worst is null..i'll lynch her after bb/dr worm..
call it a vanity vote or whatever, if there's no good case against someone else that can convince me, my vote is still gonna be here..
VOTE: bbmolla
In a way, my method of scum hunting is similar to yours now, where I had too many town reads and I have to revisit which of those don't hold up or who I was maybe town reading too easily. You and Dr Worm are the ones I think I've been too hasty to give a free pass to, especially in light of D2 actions
regardless though, Micc/Junko really should have been the lynch yesterday and I don't want this slot living another day
VOTE: Junko- Dannflor
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My theory is that RC's initial instincts when he came into the game (particularly in his suspicion towards Dr Worm) were correct, but he started thinking the game was too easy and overthought his reads. I've almost done the same when I've felt the game was too easy, and was wrong to second guess myself. I don't know a ton about RC but he strikes me as the kind of player that might happen too. His case on me largely hinged on Vedith flipping scum, so I feel like he got strongly caught up in his scum!vedith theory and it just skewed his whole view on the game.
I don't really think I've been waffling on your slot. My read has shifted but I've been very transparent on my read on you all game and provided the reasons for why/when it has changed. I'm being especially sure to make sure I revisit my reads and critically evaluate them often this game in large part because of an experience I recently had in another game, Merchant's Daughter, where someone who I'd written off as an easy conf-town early on ended up winning in lylo. Coincidentally, in that game I also read AtE as town indicative when I shouldn't have. I do think your tone and reaction to my mixed read on you is fairly towny, and in tone sounds like the town xwing I know. (though I'm being careful not to put too much stock in this)In post 880, xwing wrote:that said, i now feel like i can't trust dann this game..
u2 confusion/waffling on my slot comes from a genuine place..im pretty confident of this..
i cant say the same about dann..he has always read me right..might be coz of how i played this game or whatever, but i feel i've played the game as i've always had..
early on the game, he was "cautious" around me, playing buddy and sheeping my votes..and saying words like "at the risk of you thinking im further buddying you..+ town points for paranoia etc etc".. [paraphrased]..
now, i just feel he's taking advantage of u2's susp to turn against me..
I'm confused why you don't trust me because "I've always read you right before?" We've played one game together and I correctly read you in that game yes, but that was also a very easy straightforward game.
Overall, I think it's more likely Dr Worm as a possible partner for Junko than you. Mostly because of this post:
This + a few other comments she's made about xwing feel like REALLY obvious setup to make xwing look like a potential partner. I think Junko knows she gets lynched 99% of the time here, and this reads far too blatant. If this flips scum, I actually have a really hard time seeing xwing as a partner because of this. It's stillIn post 862, JunkoChan wrote:Xwing is one of the few actually addresing the elephant in the roompossibleand I guess you could argue WIFOM, but the simpler explanation is that scum!Junko is trying to set up a mislynch here. - Dannflor
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