large normal 218: tweets (bong)

Lycanfire · Post Post #13 (isolation #0) » Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:06 am

VOTE: Vedith

not RVS.

Lycanfire · Post Post #49 (isolation #1) » Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:41 am

VOTE: Amor

i was with you until i wasn't. tough break.

Lycanfire · Post Post #61 (isolation #2) » Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:48 pm

interested in what contributions ligma will have

Lycanfire · Post Post #83 (isolation #3) » Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:24 pm

In post 80, BuJaber wrote:
In post 13, Lycanfire wrote:VOTE: Vedith

not RVS.
Thoughts on vedith now?

noobtown/lynchbait. once he gets comfortable playing mafia im sure he will make an impact

Lycanfire · Post Post #84 (isolation #4) » Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:24 pm

In post 76, Jibril wrote:VOTE: amor
Leave joges alone

ex vote

Lycanfire · Post Post #160 (isolation #5) » Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:52 am

In post 89, Vedith wrote:
In post 83, Lycanfire wrote:noobtown/lynchbait. once he gets comfortable playing mafia im sure he will make an impact
I like you a lot too, Lycan.
However, worthless comment and no impact.
Why should I vote Armor with you?

it was a pretty hype vote when rcligma answered for amor re: your 35 and nero showed up to make further noise.

nobody really cared about the amor vote or cared for the wrong reasons i.e. bujaber being a stick in the mud over some "joke" that doesn't actually matter

the page 2 fiasco ended up being a reoccurring theme with nero on page 4, but what is more important is that they took opposite positions on the jorges slot. the point is that amor's a pretty bad vote that doesn't do anything, because if you care about amor getting lynched i don't think these two (grouped or no) make a big deal about jorge this way.

In post 108, BuJaber wrote:Other than this being a shit response I think nero is on to something with the joges stuff.

But then there's the jibril post.

I'm assuming amor v joges is not TvT and that jibril knows this.

you do know that when nero suggested some conspiracy between vedith and rc to influence the thread with "don't townread jorges" instead of himself saying "don't townread jorges" right?

In post 143, Creature wrote:
In post 53, Sashaddin wrote:
In post 51, Creature wrote:I need something to get engaged into this game. So far BuJaber was the only interesting post.
VOTE: Creature
Which post, btw?
Again, as I said before, this looks bad and it's not even the vote.

if it isn't the vote then what was it?

i actually liked that post but then again i had the benefit of reading the thread up to your PC comment, which mades me think you weren't beginning sincere to begin with. what exactly is wrong with sashaddin advancing the game?

why would you make 51 unless you were looking for a post EXACTLY like the one sashaddin replied with?

the answer seems pretty clear to me: that's the bait and switch, like the magic eye of baits and switches that becomes apparent when the gimmick is recognized. you're actually being sincere when you make 51... because you're out to vote anybody that looks like they can be voted as a result of it.

rcligma did just about the same thing, minus the banging on the drums for 90 posts holding the thread back part

In post 73, RCEnigma wrote:Vedith has the only town post this game, change my mind.

In post 74, 0verki11 wrote:
In post 73, RCEnigma wrote:Vedith has the only town post this game, change my mind.
57 was townie tbh assuming you mean that post

In post 75, RCEnigma wrote:More like 30, I think 57 could be accurate if Amor is town but his earlier post was more townie to me.

you have some transparently shitscum intentions VOTE: Creature

Lycanfire · Post Post #161 (isolation #6) » Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:54 am

In post 156, Enigma wrote:nahh ... can we get more votes on eyes?

you've gone from fart wagon 1 to fart wagon 2. find a seatbelt and strap in.

Lycanfire · Post Post #196 (isolation #7) » Fri Feb 15, 2019 7:27 am

only if you want to sit on a dumbass counterwagon without pushing it

In post 194, Nero Cain wrote:Creature (3): Sashaddin, Lycanfire, Amor
Amor (2): joges, Jibril
Sashaddin (2): Creature, Vedith
Jibril (2): RCEnigma, BuJaber
Vedith (2): stan1ey, Nero Cain
joges (1): 0verki11
stan1ey (1): rosterfoster
joges (1): Vedith
Eyes without a face (1): Enigma
Emperor flippyNips (1): Eyes without a face

jibril's vote is better placed on bujaber, i'd like to see joges commit to something

speaking of joges what is your read on rcligma? 166 reads like you're steering him into a better read on creature or at the very least keeping him honest. if your v/la is that busy talk with RC/sort him further

Lycanfire · Post Post #197 (isolation #8) » Fri Feb 15, 2019 7:34 am

In post 162, BuJaber wrote:
In post 160, Lycanfire wrote:you do know that when nero suggested some conspiracy between vedith and rc to influence the thread with "don't townread jorges" instead of himself saying "don't townread jorges" right?
I don't understand this. How does he become part of the conspiracy if he is pointing out the conspiracy?

Seems like it would have the opposite effect.

you said amor-joges was not TvT (which is really only based on one post by joges?) and that jibril knew it wasn't. nero wasn't saying "don't townread joges" he was calling out RC and vedith and suggested they were influencing people to literally "not townread joges".

you're reading too much into the first post of my post-rc/vedith/nero have had weird interactions, but my point was that nero wasn't saying what you think he was saying, which makes your read on jibril super sus.

In post 163, RCEnigma wrote:To be fair I couldn't make heads or tails of that sentence.

i type really quickly and my fingers are ESL. sometimes i end up making interesting sentences that are the equivalent of using google translate what i'm saying into danish and back to english, or i create new and exciting words for people to use. wpm level: shakespearean.

Lycanfire · Post Post #200 (isolation #9) » Fri Feb 15, 2019 7:55 am

In post 175, profii wrote:Sorry - been asked to take on responsibility forgot an additional department at work and I’m preparing for a job interview at the same time (heh that’ll be fun to explain later...)

Anyway - who do I need to vote for a why in one easy to digest paragraph please?

The game is an easy read. Half of it is Creature shitting on the thread with one liners.

I'd rather read your pov. Last time we played together you gave me so many interesting insights of what not to consider.

Failing that 160

Lycanfire · Post Post #201 (isolation #10) » Fri Feb 15, 2019 8:06 am

In post 198, BuJaber wrote:
In post 197, Lycanfire wrote:you said amor-joges was not TvT (which is really only based on one post by joges?) and that jibril knew it wasn't. nero wasn't saying "don't townread joges" he was calling out RC and vedith and suggested they were influencing people to literally "not townread joges".
Yes that is how I understood it. I'm not miunderstanding him then.

How does that affect the jibril - amor - joges triangle?
The behavior of rc and vedith could be spewing joges town, but it doesn't prove nor diprove that jibril knows joges' alignment.

No, you

are

misunderstanding him.

In post 99, Nero Cain wrote:I gave my reasoning for why I have a gut town read.

You're just like "nope"

All of 88, 92 and 95 just have this "don't town read Jorg vibe"

I'm saying there isn't much interesting between jibril/amor/joges going on

The most insightful you've been on the matter is post 116

Which makes it more about jibril than joges. It certainly assumes more about jibril's alignment.

In post 180, BuJaber wrote:Seriously let's vote jibril guys. I trust the TMI tell.

In post 199, 0verki11 wrote:anyone on a Jibil wagon should rethink there life choices. Particulary if its from TMI.
VOTE: BuJaber

I need a second pass on this

What is a TMI tell? What game are you referencing?

Lycanfire · Post Post #209 (isolation #11) » Fri Feb 15, 2019 8:35 am

In post 203, Creature wrote:No, anyone could easily tell what post I was referring to if they ISOed me. It's a purely lazy filler question.

There is no town motivation for your post 51

1. A town motivation would have been to see who questions you about it. You know, advance the game. See who actually wants to put in work in the game.

2. There wasn't any town motivation because, in your reply to joges, asking the same question, 56 with featured some bullshit about political correctness.

This makes me question why you made 51 at all. Why

wouldn't

you want a townie to look past your previous reply to bujaber? That isn't lazy, you're lazy. You're assuming bad faith to justify a vote.

In post 202, Creature wrote:Enough to somewhat tell the difference between their towngame and their scumgame.

In post 143, Creature wrote:Again, as I said before, this looks bad and it's not even the vote.

In post 55, joges wrote:Why is that an interesting post?

But it wasn't about his vote though! It's actually about your vote.

Lycanfire · Post Post #212 (isolation #12) » Fri Feb 15, 2019 8:39 am

Lycanfire · Post Post #226 (isolation #13) » Fri Feb 15, 2019 11:58 am

Do you actually believe Sashaddin is scum?

If you believed Sashaddin is scum would you really say you weren't trying to be useful? Wouldn't you say you caught scum with it?

It's perfectly acceptable to say strange things, especially early in the game if it gets a conversation going... but you won't admit to that while maintaining Sashaddin is guilty of some cardinal sin. This missing connection just makes one thing clear: you wanted a reason to vote, and even THAT isn't something too objectionable for page 3, but you don't admit that either, and sat on your conclusion from page 6 until now. What you say are islands of happenstance without any bridges. Being useful is a bridge too far for a scumfuck like you.

Lycanfire · Post Post #227 (isolation #14) » Fri Feb 15, 2019 11:58 am

wow

Lycanfire · Post Post #228 (isolation #15) » Fri Feb 15, 2019 12:03 pm

In post 219, BuJaber wrote:it made me feel like they wanted people to focus on these two and encourage people to pick a side by doing it themselves.

ok ty what is your read on creature? lynching jibril to "solve" rc/vedith/nero has a super cool blindspot of amazing coincidence that i am sure has nothing to do with my vote on creature

Lycanfire · Post Post #419 (isolation #16) » Mon Feb 18, 2019 6:11 am

Prob should have declared v/la when I realized I wasn't getting out of bed any time soon on Saturday

In post 417, profii wrote:As far as I can see there are more wagons in this game than the VC's reflect so it's pretty tricky for me to definitely say 'that CW appeared to keep player_X safe'

I will look at that but I'm busy until at least Wednesday to do it properly.

Why wait?

Spoiler: vote data

To take your idea and run with it

At page 3 we had the emergence of 4 unique wagons: Amor, Sashaddin, BuJaber, and Joges. There wasn't anything new going on for two pages until the beginnings of the Jibril wagon (RCEnigma, BuJaber). BuJaber briefly left the wagon on page 7 to vote Vedith, but came back to it on page 8.

On page 9 Sashaddin 2.0 swapped to the Jibril wagon, which was patronized by RCEnigma as far back as page 5, which joined both Sashaddin wagons together {Creature, RCEnigma, Vedith}. Sashaddin 2.0 and Jibril were counterwagons to Creature. After the full extent of the Jibril wagon, on the next page Eyes without a face places a third vote onto Vedith, a wagon that hadn't been looked at for two pages. It tapers off and Vedith reaches his peak votes two pages later with the additions of Enigma and Rosterfoster. Vedith is in opposition to both the Jibril and Creature wagons (no migrant voters from either). It's at this point that Vedith crossvotes Rosterfoster, and Eyes goes from voting me at Vedith's request to voting Rosterfoster. Sashaddin abandons the 7-page stale Creature wagon and joins in. This is the peak of Rosterfoster's wagon.

Now to this page: Eyes without a face has 6 votes. Four of these players have voted together {Enigma, RCEnigma} {Enigma, Nero Cain, Stan1ey}, from the early peak of the BuJaber wagon and the later Vedith wagons respectively. Beyond that the remaining two players are "unique" voters (Emp, yourself) that have never been a part of a wagon. Eyes is a counter to Rosterfoster, but they aren't crossvoting (Roster is instead voting Vedith).

What does this say?

A lot and all of it baffles me. Something is going on here but it's only ever going to be supplementary evidence pre-flip. Unless you really want to call the team something simple.

That doesn't mean you can't use the data before choosing a lynch, though.

I'm trying to suspend what bias I have for the Creature wagon being abandoned in the wind and digest the pages I was absent for. I'm just going to ask questions as they come and make sense to me. Also because nobody reads my posts if I make 1 big one and fuck off.

Lycanfire · Post Post #420 (isolation #17) » Mon Feb 18, 2019 6:44 am

I would start by asking the gang of 4 what they think about the previous wagons they had been on, but I remember the BuJaber wagon being a pointless one because

(1) Enigma admitted it was a pre-meditated vote
(2) I felt like RCEnigma's vote was better placed on Joges or Jibril. He aimed a question at Nero when he could have joined forces with Vedith.

In post 111, RCEnigma wrote:I feel like I don't want to vote Bujaber anymore but I also don't know if it's just because I agree about jibril.

Why did you want BuJaber to begin with?

--

Enigma voted Vedith at Nero's request. Claimed it was supplementary to lynching Eyes.

--

In post 232, Nero Cain wrote:none of these wagons interest me. Lets all vote Vedith. Bujabers thing about lynching Jbril to solve in Nero/RC/Veith is really bad thinking or scum that chain/lining up lynches.

You claimed you didn't care about any of the early wagons (notably Creature|Amor|Sashaddin). Why?

--

In post 323, stan1ey wrote:
In post 322, rosterfoster wrote:I don't understand this Jbril wagon. But Bujaber, Flippynips, and Creature are town. I'm getting real bad feels from both eyes and Vedith. For eyes, 176 feels wrong to me. 255 from Flippynipps is accuracte I think - that was such a forced interaction. And Vedith has just been trolling, but it's not in a way which actually gets reactions, which I think is what Vedith would be trying to do as town.

VOTE: Vedith
100% agree

What in Rosterfoster's post were you agreeing with? 100% of it?

Lycanfire · Post Post #421 (isolation #18) » Mon Feb 18, 2019 6:47 am

Btw... I never got an answer to the TMI tell. I found this interesting because 0verki11's response to BuJaber reminded me a lot of those male soap operas I used to watch as a kid. Like, "he can't use the stunner on that man, he's got a family! oh lawd the humanity, by god as my witness he has broken that man in half!" You know? Like it was his secret move that completely legitimized the Jibril vote.

Lycanfire · Post Post #426 (isolation #19) » Mon Feb 18, 2019 7:01 am

BuJaber instead of you on the Sashaddin wagon

and that is the correct meaning of patronage tyvm

Lycanfire · Post Post #430 (isolation #20) » Mon Feb 18, 2019 7:25 am

In post 346, Eyes without a face wrote:Scum don't wait for a wagon to build on them to quit the leading wagon. In fact they do the opposite. They join their counterwagons.

Yes.

On the other hand you showed your hand when you voted me at Vedith's request? If he's scum and you're town he already thinks he has you on board... and the new counter to his wagon was one the two of you made. Got anything else?

In post 86, Nero Cain wrote:Vedith is more likely to make towny sounding posts as scum then as town.

In post 245, Vedith wrote:I am Scum

You're really milking this. Get serious please.

Lycanfire · Post Post #530 (isolation #21) » Tue Feb 19, 2019 5:36 pm

I think Eyes is town but not because of the wagon. Eyes' 444 is entirely tone deaf to the idea in their own involvement in a counterwagon but proceeds to give a similar account on where they stands on Roster. I have the impression that if they're scum partners as it's been suggested that Eyes would have checked his work? Scum here either address the actual concern (the double vote onto Roster) or at least they don't drag themself into the gutter on their way to hard defend Vedith. Neither scenario makes much sense.

In post 483, rosterfoster wrote:I also think this is true. I think what happened was this - scum Vedith sees that I'm making a case on him. The Jbril wagon is baseless (like can somebody actually tell me why?) so it will dissipate

This is pretty much in line with how I feel. The previous wagons have gone unresolved, there's a motive, and it isn't being shared.

For instance

In post 475, stan1ey wrote:@Lycanfire #420 yeah pretty much. There's a difference between trolling and being unhelpful to town. Vedith has changed the way hes played noticeably since rooster made that post too

This is in reply to a post saying Stan1ey 100% agreed with you simultaneously townreading Creature while both you and Stan1ey have their votes on Vedith at this time.

I think by vote records Vedith is pretty clearly scum here, or somebody that gives a shit about solving Vedith or Creatures alignment would at least not give dissonant reads between the two. Stan1ey looks like a prospective partner here because he doesn't seem to have a good reason for wanting Eyes over Vedith, or Vedith in the first place while reconciling Creature as town? Post 323 was a the biofilm to a surface level read on the game and his vote onto Eyes seems more motivated by a utilitarian purpose - by not being on Vedith.

I don't see town!Creature. The only argument I've seen in support of it is when Enigma said something along the lines of Creature sorting himself out eventually, but that's a trash reason to refuse to lynch obvscum. He was one of the few to put Creature in the limelight and his vote on Eyes isn't all that shocking. Being vote 3 onto Vedith during the Jibril wagon makes me feel like he had some good intentions when it came to pushing Vedith, and voting Eyes by his admission is an extension of that push.

Among the last of the "gang of four" that simultaneously voted Eyes while having a history of voting together I'm the least worried of Nero. RCEnigma made a good point about BuJaber making Joges more about Jibril's alignment than anything Joges himself said (I'm pretty sure I've said exactly that though).

In post 419, Lycanfire wrote: Page 7
BuJaber votes Vedith (BuJaber)
Lycanfire votes Creature (Lycanfire)
Vedith votes Sashaddin (Creature, Vedith) *[2nd Peak of Sashaddin wagon]
Stan1ey votes Vedith (BuJaber, Stan1ey)
Amor votes Creature (Sashaddin, Lycanfire, Amor) *[Peak of Creature wagon]
Page 8
Eyes without a face votes Emperor flippyNips (Eyes without a face)
BuJaber votes Jibril (RCEnigma, BuJaber)
Nero Cain votes Vedith (Stan1ey, Nero Cain)
0verki11 votes BuJaber (0verki11)
Page 9
Creature votes Jibril (RCEnigma, BuJaber, Creature)
Vedith votes Jibril (RCEnigma, BuJaber, Creature, Vedith)
Eyes without a face unvotes Emperor flippyNips (null)
Emperor flippyNips votes Jibril (RCEnigma, BuJaber, Creature, Vedith, Emperor flippyNips) *[Peak of Jibril wagon]

When I voted for Creature, Vedith voted for Sashaddin. When Nero voted for Vedith, Creature and Vedith went to Jibril. Nothing from Sashaddin from Creature to Jibril has managed to get resolved, meanwhile all wagons thereafter become about Vedith. When Vedith peaks at 3 votes and he pushes Roster. This wagon doesn't take off and and a page of some lurkers coming out later Stan1ey starts the next page with a vote on Eyes after Enigma gyrates his hips in that general direction.

I've been doing some reading into Stan1ey's play. Mini Normal 2053 showcases a few of the faces here (and it's a really short read if you just imagine all the Boon posts to be autofellatio). Stan1ey's play is best described as someone that breaks up TvTs and only gets belligerent when an argument gets personal. For instance, he started becoming convinced that Boon was scum D2 and ripped into him. Boon really flaundered around making ominous threats and talking about his power level. Boon was town, but he also wasn't lynched so I guess that's a plus? He's also incredibly paranoid of potential realities and can use VCA as a basis for his reads. His play in this game isn't very representative of his style and he's a victim of his own proficiency as a result.

In post 435, Vedith wrote:Ignore them Eyes.
I think there's 2 Scum on that wagon.

I'd say it's more like 1.

I want to move forward with {Nero Enigma Roster profii} and try to reach some consensus with them today. I'm interested in Eyes' Jibril TR through wagonomics and I'm eagerly awaiting the catchups of profii/eyes on this matter

In post 417, profii wrote:As far as I can see there are more wagons in this game than the VC's reflect so it's pretty tricky for me to definitely say 'that CW appeared to keep player_X safe'

In post 444, Eyes without a face wrote:Bottom line is I think both Vedith and jibril are town, but I am more confident in Vedith because he's the one being more active so I can judge by his own content. jibril I only TR based on wagonomics, which is a weak reason to TR someone on D1.

The fact that rooster's wagon didn't take off is telling to me too. I was only the 2nd vote on him, and -suddenly- all 4 votes previously on Vedith are now on me. Of course not all of them are scum, but I suspect 2 of them might be (one is rooster himself) and they preemptively built the wagon on me as a precaution lest the wagon on rooster gains momentum.

Lycanfire · Post Post #642 (isolation #22) » Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:47 am

i agree my vote shouldn't be on creature right now. you can consider it on vedith and any L-1 being followed with intent.

going to read that eyes game enigma mentioned and those games nero brought up on bujaber's behavior this evening

re: that jibril game nero thought he saw i think she has only played in NM: 2053. i read through it, she was a wolf, and a pretty easy wolf. she's talking more about who she thinks is town/"werebeast" which i think is a good sign. if she flips her easywolfing will tell us a lot but i don't think she's the best flip today.

Lycanfire · Post Post #713 (isolation #23) » Fri Feb 22, 2019 6:04 pm

In post 647, Jibril wrote:If you read that, do you think Emporer is the Werebeast this time? Do you think anything of the others who were there?

Yup I compiled notes on everyone

Emp is a meatworld colleague of Boon who described his scum play as non-existant, "he doesn't know what to say as scum". Emp is someone that enjoys memes, sarcasm, and gutreads. I read him as someone without much confidence because despite being able to develop reads he can't put words to, he hesitates and is slow to share the fleshy part of his reads. Contradictory to some his behavior he doesn't seem to be very opinionated.

Through vca he's potential scum but I'm leaning hard on Boon's testimony. While he isn't mimicking his previous town play I'm sure this will either remain a trend or he will out himself if he is scum. If he's town, he can only become more town.

Joges has a blunt playstyle and says what's on his mind. The timing in relation to posts is something he's shown ability to get reads from. You'll find him not to be outwardly belligerant, but rather than share reads you can get a sense of how he reads people based on how he talks to them. When he feels a conversation isn't useful anymore, he prompts whoever he is talking to to move on.

I think he's playing much the same. See the deadpan 636. My impression is that joges is skeptical of 0verki11 but isn't suspecting him. When Joges

does

give reads it's in reply to Nero's vanity comment, it's kind of in passing, as if he didn't want to talk about it. I get the impression that he is somebody that doesn't want to talk about things that don't further the game state.

One thing I do think is strange is how he declared v/la, came back and asked for a recap. When he left I thought he was doing good things™ with his 166, but since then hasn't cared much about RCEnigma's opinions. If I was v/la I'd grab somebody to give me a the lowdown, and RC could have been that body.

I read you as a definite alt account that engages in novel behavior ("master", "werebeast", sheeping... you're playing up some roleplay persona). From the timing of rb's replace in NM 2053, I'd say there's a chance you are a personality rb made to "play" mafia without getting banned. It's possible that you're just a player that is shit at scumplay and use this persona to reduce any floor and ceiling you have between factions. I know of a player like that, but I don't think you're them because (1) they already have an account where they do exactly that (2) they're not lame enough to be you.

The difference in your play in that game and this one if that you're more happy to be independent and express reads.

Lycanfire · Post Post #714 (isolation #24) » Fri Feb 22, 2019 6:19 pm

In post 539, Enigma wrote:Also lycan, interested if you have any conclusions from eye's only town game (since you read stanley's)?

Eyes claimed they weren't an alt ("first game on MS") in Open 745 but I'm curious about how much mafia experience they really have. They didn't seem to understand the concept of RVS at the time. In this game, they claimed experience which is either off-site or gained on another account since then re: the "hammer / large game" debacle.

Both scum got wagoned heading out of RVS and at this point Eyes spent a lot of energy questioning peoples motives instead of developing reads. I feel was a major factor to why they ended up getting roped. One of the scums went out of their way to derail the thread which gave people mixed feelings, but for whatever reason they felt like they made more sense than Eyes, who was guilty of being there and not advancing the game state... Which Eyes explained as being a gambit to bait scum ("nothing I can do d1"). It worked, but the whole idea of purposely being bashful about contributing got them rightfully strung up.

There was some differences when I compared my 'eyes profile' with Open 745. My perception of eyes so far has been one of somebody that is stubborn and opinionated even if they are mistaken. They're a lot more 'in' this game. I have no reason to think they weren't gambiting like they said which does bridge the gap in confidence.

I noted a few things similar in their thought processes

(1) Eyes places an importance on evidence rather than how they feel on matters
"But your response makes me feel better, because you are not arguing your alignment, but arguing the evidence. It's like you're saying "It's not what you know. It's what you can prove." which works in a court of law, but not in an online game." vs "Vedith is town, buys. Move on. Scum don't wait for a wagon to build on them to quit the leading wagon. In fact they do the opposite. They join their counterwagons."
This statements seen like they congrue in how they form reads (or at least,

good reads

). Eragon misrepped them in the last game about this, but I feel like this is what they were getting at. They still deserved to get lynched but their gambit kinda worked with how obvscum Eragon became.

(2) Eyes seems to miss the point on a topic at hand very easily. See Eyes on scum replace outs vs Eyes on Vedith, his wagon and the wagons thereafter. This is more of a personality quirk rather than AI, but seeing

what

skips a beat could be important if they draw a scum PM (or, if they suddenly decide to get more careful after having read this post).

This game started about a full month after they got roped in Open 745, and most new players probably wouldn't come back after an experience like that. I don't find it strange that somebody would change up their playstyle in a short time and I don't think Open 745 was a great representation of their townplay to begin with. Eyes so much as said that they had a narrow view of gathering reads in that game which is no longer applied to this game. They're playing differently but that doesn't make it a red PM.

From what I've seen so far I think they're probtown.

Lycanfire · Post Post #716 (isolation #25) » Fri Feb 22, 2019 8:00 pm

In post 519, Nero Cain wrote:I still dislike Bujaber. These are my two games with him. He was scum in one and town in one. I forget wich game but in one of them he did the same "we need to lynch X to tell us about Y" so he's likely the same alignment as he was in whichever game he did that in.

He did it in his town game: "If correct that makes it very plausible that a) dunk is town and b) koki is scum."
"-pedit nero I want to see your flip to decide on a few things including whether you v gamma is TvS or TvT. Don't think it's SvS given how many S flipped already."
He did it in his scum game: "The way profii talked about the push on clem and gamma makes it sound like he's saying 'other scum than me' [...]
As for the push on Gamma that really depends on Gamma's flip. I haven't liked his contribution to this game much but the emotional posting recently is really working on me." (profii was town, gamma was scum. this was projecting what he was doing in order to chain a lynch.)
I don't know how indicative this is as his scumgame because it seems like the mafia thought the game was multiball (and they did that scum thing where they say hurr multiball?? which is really funny when it's not)

Full disclosure: I did ISO dives only on those games (theme park is the toilet queue).

It's my impression that BuJaber "clears" people more often as town than as scum. In the scumgame, most of his play was defending Wisdom and Gamma, calling DFB scum and taking the fall for Boon. It's a lot easier to clear people as town as scum, but I don't think he had a single town "clear" outside of pinturicchio. He's tunneling on Jibril like he did DFB, so if he's scum maybe his partners just haven't been wagoned. Rather than run with that assumption I'd prefer to divine reads from "doing" than anti-"doing". I'm more interested in what he is doing. BuJaber is calling this person scum, that person scum, he's willing to lynch this person, that person must answer my questions etc.

This question asking behavior is present in both those sample games you linked, but with few exception you'll find him asking a question but ending his post with a statement as scum. In the Civ game, every other post up until his 55th post ended in a question. When he's scum it's less about asking and more about telling. 307 was a lot like that, ending only in a question to seek you out personally. The rhetorical questions not being aimed at Jibril are a vehicle to serve a point.

What I gathered from his "TMI" tell (thanks for explaining it to me, btw, I thought it was a game they were referencing) wasn't much. Whatever he was assuming of joges' alignment was contingent on Jibril's. I thought I was catching him latching onto what I said (you/vedith/rc having weird interactions) and that he was representing it as something like "nero says joges isn't town, which makes my read on joges alignment not dependent on jibril's alignment, because I agree with nero". All I got out of it was that english is probably his second language and he just worded it funny.

VCA is an interesting story. He's hard on Jibril, dodged my question on Creature and came back around recently for Vedith. Nothing precludes him from being aligned with the latter two. What he would be doing is a dangerous game, but also anti-"doing". What I get out of that is that he's not scum with Jibril. He has been beating that drum pretty consistently. I'm not sure he calls attention to that with Vedith being the counter, because Vedith has voted there once before.

The wagon was never resolved and what I mean by that most of the the voters

still want her

. RCEnigma is so much as saying that Jibril is still scum. Creature made a post saying the same thing. Emp is checking in just to remind of us what he thinks of Jibril. Vedith has rescinded his read for some reason.

You know what I did when Creature wasn't resolved? I left my vote on him. Sus.

Lycanfire · Post Post #717 (isolation #26) » Fri Feb 22, 2019 8:01 pm

re. RCEnigma Sashaddin games. I modded his inaugural game. He was a pretty competent wolf but likes to talk himself down as scum. I don't view this as some compulsive need to depreciate himself. There were clear reasons behind his behavior and it was role related. I'd like to see him express more confidence in his reads. Meta may be useful for reading him but I think having him contribute the game is equally as good.

Lycanfire · Post Post #719 (isolation #27) » Fri Feb 22, 2019 8:10 pm

In post 645, joges wrote:Why are you voting someone if you "agree my vote shouldn't be on" them? Why not unvote and vote Vedith?

Beyond rosters' feelings on the Jibril wagon, why Vedith is "trolling" (Nero and I kind of egged him on and I agree Vedith went too far when he managed to derail the thread with it), Enigma wanting him because of Eyes, joining in would really only distract from why I think he's scummy. I'm there in spirit!

In post 664, BuJaber wrote:Okay Profii is vedith's partner

If anything wouldn't you think Amor is his partner? Putting a yuck vote on a wagon is an OG tactic to derail it.

I don't think profii is hurting for a reason to exit the wagon because if he were scum with Vedith here, he couldn't be oblivious of wagonomics from earlier in the day. He went out of his way to put attention on it and I had been feeling the same way ever since the Jibril wagon took off with nobody all that interested in what I had to say.

In post 701, Nero Cain wrote:kinda sad with 2.5 days to go.

Nvm I'm here now VOTE: Vedith

In post 702, Vedith wrote:Something we can agree on.
People I won't vote.

Eyes, Jibril, Nero, Lycan.

I can compromise else where as no lynch is tragic.

I agree but why not Jibril? I have a feeling that we don't have the same answer.

Lycanfire · Post Post #720 (isolation #28) » Fri Feb 22, 2019 8:22 pm

In post 575, stan1ey wrote:then was the vote on sasha which I didn't like. Sheeped for no reason, no reason given and it's sasha. He didn't do anything scummy and people were voting him because of his unorthodox style imo and it was an easy place for vedith to try and push because other people might wrongfully scum read him.

That's where I take issue with you. You scumread Vedith for opportunism (and called it that) while 100% agreed that Creature was town. You're capable of using VCA to get a read. The Vedith-scum Creature-town with your own admission is like getting caught on traffic spikes in transit. It doesn't make sense.

In post 575, stan1ey wrote:if he flipped scum then we should lynch eyes. Like if eyes is scum that could be a gambit where he thinks we'll assume he was getting us to lynch a town with him if he gets lynched but also that genuinely could be what he was doing.

In post 576, stan1ey wrote:Ive given my reasons many times read my iso idk why i keep getting questioned on this

Are you able to see Vedith or Eyes as scum independently from one another?

Lycanfire · Post Post #763 (isolation #29) » Sun Feb 24, 2019 11:05 pm

In post 722, BuJaber wrote:I also tried to question Jibril directly but I didn't get ang response.

In post 724, rosterfoster wrote:Well ok seems like Stanley wont happen. Tbh the Stanley stuff probably means that Vedith is more likely scum, partners with Stanley. I'm not sure what I was thinking with Vedith town exactly.

In post 727, RCEnigma wrote:Jibril is playing like a vegetable and getting hard defended, I don't know if that's worse on her or her sympathizers. Someone will figure it out while I also go full vegetable. I hope anyway.

In post 728, profii wrote:If i voted vedith rn I'd be voting someone i think is town just to put a lynch through - im out

In post 734, stan1ey wrote:So you think eyes is town?

ITT: shit people should have elaborated on a long time ago

Lycanfire · Post Post #764 (isolation #30) » Sun Feb 24, 2019 11:06 pm

I'd like stan1ey to rank

vedith but not eyes
eyes but not vedith
both together

just rapidfire it pref before anything stupid happens if you happen to catch this post

Lycanfire · Post Post #766 (isolation #31) » Sun Feb 24, 2019 11:13 pm

votey mcvoteface 1.666

Jibril (8):

Emperor flippyNips, RCEnigma, Sashaddin, Creature, profii, BuJaber, rosterfoster, 0verki11

[L-1]

Vedith (4):

Nero Cain, Amor, Lycanfire, Enigma

Emperor flippyNips (2):

Jibril, Vedith

Eyes without a face (1):

stan1ey

Creature (1):

Eyes without a face

Sashaddin (1):

joges

not voting (0):

with 17 alive, it takes 9 to lynch. day 1 ends february 25th at 11:30 central US time; in (expired on 2019-02-25 11:30:00)

might be around for a cfd. i'll hammer in like 3 hours unless someone pinky promises they'll watch the thread instead

wagon is jibril wagon-vedith +

sashaddin

, profii, rosterfoster,

0verki11

. bold are non-vedith voters because i felt that was bold

cfd should be

Vedith (4):

Nero Cain, Amor, Lycanfire, Enigma

Emperor flippyNips (2):

Jibril, Vedith

here instead of something dumb like eyes or sashaddin. one SRs jibril, has a mutually townreading comp because reasons. the other is the jibril CW that jibril voters left for reasons

random vote changes before a claim are a scumclaim etc.

resolve

this shit already

Lycanfire · Post Post #767 (isolation #32) » Sun Feb 24, 2019 11:14 pm

a game where creature is able to play like he is and not eat rope is a special kind of hell btw

Lycanfire · Post Post #769 (isolation #33) » Sun Feb 24, 2019 11:19 pm

In post 765, stan1ey wrote:both
Eyes only
Vedith only

But i dont really like to go on associations pre flip theyre not accurate imo

so how do you feel about post 444? if you think the eyes-vedith interactions were scummy when eyes arrived in the game thread i'd get that, if you think he sheeped vedith to untangle the vedith wagon i get that too. what i don't get is how eyes makes a big deal about wagonomics, complains about his wagon, and becomes tone deaf to his own involvement in a CW, and tries to use it as a mechanism to townread vedith as a result. saying both is like stopping partway and wanting it to be true.

Lycanfire · Post Post #770 (isolation #34) » Sun Feb 24, 2019 11:25 pm

In post 768, stan1ey wrote:creature is pretty towny - basing this of 1 previous town game i saw of his

whatever i know about creature is whatever mastina randomly shitposts about creature being >random in reads. his entire playstyle as far as i can tell is shoving colours on a litebrite which doesn't seem difficult to fake

Lycanfire · Post Post #863 (isolation #35) » Wed Feb 27, 2019 10:07 pm

fwiw it felt like jibril was playing differently too. it wasn't something i wanted to challenge at l-1 and the timer going down and getting a scumread before night phase seemed good to me

maybe nobody read my meta posts which is cool i guess i'm trying to be less wally and aimed them at ppl that cared

Lycanfire · Post Post #866 (isolation #36) » Wed Feb 27, 2019 10:10 pm

kill suggests newb scum? or vig. those are my initial thoughts. i think you'd have to be unfamiliar with vedith to actually trust what he was saying yesterday, but i'll bank the ability to have reads that aren't shit today as a result of his death.

mostly care about the latter half of the wagon, people that thought vedith wasn't going to happen being people more likely to know things they shouldn't.

Lycanfire · Post Post #868 (isolation #37) » Wed Feb 27, 2019 10:15 pm

In post 867, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 866, Lycanfire wrote:people that thought vedith wasn't going to happen being people more likely to know things they shouldn't.
???

towns would consider the possibility he's lying scum and scums would only see somebody that is actively claiming their lynch won't go through

Lycanfire · Post Post #1054 (isolation #38) » Sat Mar 02, 2019 6:18 am

Okay so after catching up...

There's a lot of unproductive reads flying around. That's not flying today.

For starters I find it disingenuous that people are willing to use VCA/NKA for reads but choose a weird ass criteria to read 0verki11, in this case Nero and Bujaber taking different positions on some claim post. This is dumb because 1) it isn't a gambit and 2) it wasn't a lie (... it was retracted in the same post? like why the fuck would anyone read into this?) meanwhile despite being a tunnelfuck and probably from MU 0verki11 actually seemed pretty damn town by the eod1? It came off as busywork at the time to me, but scum!0verki11 doesn't have the faintest goddamn clue what role Jibril is as but called for a CFD anyway. Jibril died for this shit.

In post 983, BuJaber wrote:If scum, he is trying to avoid getting lynched, distracts the game thread by making the players discuss his claim, could potentially expose PRs who are less likely to believe him, or even try to lynch players who call him out on it.

What if he's town and baiting people into making dumb posts?

Lycanfire · Post Post #1055 (isolation #39) » Sat Mar 02, 2019 6:22 am

In post 796, stan1ey wrote:that leaves me with these: Emperor flippyNips, RCEnigma, Sashaddin, profii

I heard through the grapevine that flippy has a very lurky scum meta so i'll start with my vote there VOTE: Emperor flippyNips i am also suspicious of RCE

Why profii and why Emp?

In post 799, Sashaddin wrote:So your scum list includes 4 of the 5 first on this wagon and no one in the last 4? That would be weird... You were the hammer, you could be scum yourself here.

Speculation based on wagon comp can be useful... For yourself. To get a read on Stan1ey it's more important question would be why he has the reads he does.

In post 1009, Eyes without a face wrote:
In post 804, Eyes without a face wrote:The usual distribution of a 4 members scum team would be 2 on jibril, 1 on Vedith and 1 on neither. This is not a rule but is often the case btw.
And nobody commented on this.

Nobody commented on it b/c it looked like what Sashaddin was doing or what people were accusing Stan1ey of doing. Speculating based on position in a wagon or that you had a super cool read that pointed out a tipping point but didn't want to share yet.

In post 880, BuJaber wrote:Because I want to know which of you / RCE is scum.

In post 905, BuJaber wrote:Because joges getting townread by people got some weird attention.

We've got jibril, amor, vedith, RCE, joges and Nero in the middle of this attention. Weird interactions always contain scum, and already jibril and vedith flipped town, leaving the 4 of you.

I was wondering if there's a certain # of flips where this tell stops working

In post 888, BuJaber wrote:Creature what's your read on profii

What's your read on profii?

Lycanfire · Post Post #1056 (isolation #40) » Sat Mar 02, 2019 6:25 am

Nero can you repost why RCEnigma is scum? 807 was an attractive post up until I found the fingers on my left hand and realize there's too many people to be all scum.

In post 884, Nero Cain wrote:I could see him pushing for a Jibril lynch if Joges is scum and he just wanted a threat to his team lynched. I could also see him just sitting on a p EZ mislynch and calling it a day.

In what way was Jibril a threat to a Joges+RCEnigma team in particular?

Lycanfire · Post Post #1057 (isolation #41) » Sat Mar 02, 2019 6:27 am

In post 1029, Eyes without a face wrote:What's wrong with voting joges? Why does everybody seem to want me off him and on someone else?

Don't let your dreams be memes

I don't think joges has done anything that would be out of his scumrange. If you want to make the bird sing, do it

Lycanfire · Post Post #1058 (isolation #42) » Sat Mar 02, 2019 6:32 am

town
{Eyes without a face, 0verki11, RCEnigma
Nero Cain, Amor, Sashaddin
Enigma
northern bastions of town
NULL (don't do this) >> joges
southern wrecks of scum
Emperor flippyNips, stan1ey, BuJaber
profii, Creature, Rosterfoster}
scum

hot takes after a nap. meanwhile the obvious VOTE: roster

Lycanfire · Sun Mar 03, 2019 11:42 pm

In post 1063, Nero Cain wrote:Is this saying that there were several others who fit the same description of "not scumhunting and vote parking on town."? Who were they?

I don't care about what your personal definition of ass sitting is.

821 is scumhunting. RCE cares about the Jibril wagon (esp. timing of Vedith claims) to the night kill. He explicitly points the finger at profii (which is amusing because I don't have experience with scum!profii) while is warmer about Roster. The only things I take issue with it would be (1) his scumread of 0verki11 (2) his townread of emp (3) the belief that vedith-jibril voters are town.

If these are the hills he wants to die on, that's fine. As it stands his scumpool flows into mine well enough, and yours too in some ways.

Are all of us wrong? If we are, do the differing ways we get to our reads tell us more about each other?

I like what I see even if I disagree with it because I'm (not not) not always right, but if I'm wrong and somebody else is super wrong, I'm going to see the fuck up. These are potential fuck ups.

Lycanfire · Sun Mar 03, 2019 11:46 pm

In post 1076, Enigma wrote:Hi friends

for ease of reading

roosters votes in a nutshell

Page 30 is when votes go into the flux. Vedith starts acting strange at the beginning of page 29, and never posts again by the end of it. Your vote and Roster's comes near the end of the page.

Spoiler: vote data

Now I think Sashaddin is a pretty competent wolf, but I'd think that if he saw something and communicated it to Roster, Roster would have read it before committing to Vedith, even if both wagons were town. The flux voters were Creature-profii-BuJaber-Roster. I'd say there's a high possibility of 1 scum in {Creature, profii, Bujaber}, a good chance at two, and it drops off at three, because Roster is looking fit for that coup, but that chance still exists.

Too easy?

Lycanfire · Sun Mar 03, 2019 11:53 pm

In post 1083, Nero Cain wrote:Roster seems kina null 4 me. I could see both alignments going after "trolling" players. Town b/c he's you know, right. And scum sense its not a super hard push a trolling bad poster as scum. The only real issue is that he didn't look at his scum games but then I feel like a town him could just go "oh hey, he's trolling in this game doesn't seem the same as his town games thus he must be scum."

Its also not entirely impossible that he goes after Vedith then switches to the Eyes wagon when it looks like that's gonna happen then switches back to Vedith when that dies. But again, I just think that's a bit null. IDK.

I never really understood why Vedith took off opposed to Creature

In post 341, rosterfoster wrote:-That, and the eyes interaction (as I said before). Also now your convenient arguments which try to paint what I said in a different light.

This became a thing for some reason. Also "vedith trolling" when two people with XP with him said that's what he does like <page 4.

When looked at like this it just looks easy.

Do you feel better about this? VOTE: Creature

Lycanfire · Sun Mar 03, 2019 11:55 pm

In post 1062, BuJaber wrote:I asked creature for a reason, lycan. If I wanted to tell him how I read profii I would have.

In post 1106, Creature wrote:profii is also scum

Lycanfire · Mon Mar 04, 2019 12:02 am

In post 1171, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 807, Nero Cain wrote:Lets vote RCE who did no scumhunting and vote sat on town.

In post 1166, Lycanfire wrote:821 is scumhunting.
My post was way before 821 and was CLEARLY talking about yesterday. But even if we say that 821 is scumhunting he's not voting anything or committing to anything. His proffi read is weird as fuck

VOTE: RCE

It's neither is or is not the Vedith-Jibril voters.. It was, all along, the Jibril-Jibril-Jibril voter, t. Mafia Jibril Slayer

Okay it's RCE and his profii meta read is weird. His partners are in the swing voters though, right?

Lycanfire · Mon Mar 04, 2019 12:07 am

In post 1174, Nero Cain wrote:I'm not really understanding your post Lycan.

Isn't scum!RCE making his partners obvious?

Lycanfire · Mon Mar 04, 2019 12:18 am

In post 1120, RCEnigma wrote:Then Lynch me, overkill/Stanley/flippy/Profii is my wagon Poe. Creature can be town. I think sashaddin was supposed to be switched with one of those but I'm not sure.

In post 1138, RCEnigma wrote:I'm calling scum within the slots pushing me, so 1 within Nero/Stanley/overkill. And I've been townreading Nero. So like kill overkill or Stanley. I'm not sure if I can be more clear about who I'm scumreading.

I feel like scum might be more compelling than this considering the second pool is shit

It's not about they wouldn't but why is he saying this in particular.

Lycanfire · Mon Mar 04, 2019 12:19 am

In post 1178, RCEnigma wrote:Lol would I buss my whole scumteam? Yeah probably.

What's the game that spoke to you about profii?

Lycanfire · Post Post #1198 (isolation #51) » Mon Mar 04, 2019 9:08 am

In post 1189, profii wrote:Haha this is going to come across badly for me I think but I don’t really care... I think RCE is town

In post 1193, Creature wrote:Hi, I become conftown when I lynch scum

Get off me

Lycanfire · Post Post #1199 (isolation #52) » Mon Mar 04, 2019 9:08 am

Lycanfire · Post Post #1200 (isolation #53) » Mon Mar 04, 2019 9:10 am

In post 1196, Succinct wrote:
In post 1165, Enigma wrote:I feel like I can somewhat figure town creature (less scum creature), and he hasn't been screaming town so far so yehhh ...
I took one look and could tell this is town Creature.

Anyone claiming otherwise is automatically suspect.

In post 1191, Creature wrote:I rest my case.
Agreed.
VOTE: profii.

i'm sorry that you only roll scum in shit games

this can go too

Lycanfire · Post Post #1290 (isolation #54) » Wed Mar 06, 2019 3:01 am

In post 1225, RCEnigma wrote:VOTE: Rce not to hold the game hostage or anything but, pretty please?

Do you have a game where you've done this as town before?

Lycanfire · Post Post #1293 (isolation #55) » Wed Mar 06, 2019 3:11 am

I'm going to look through some profii scum games. In my town game with him he crumbed really hard so he's not ignorant of the concept.

I don't get how this makes more sense than scum trusting a townie to tell the truth, even if it's Vedith.

Why is Creature town?

Lycanfire · Post Post #1295 (isolation #56) » Wed Mar 06, 2019 3:17 am

In post 1283, RCEnigma wrote: If I'm lynched today town has to make a decision on Nero. Absolutely have to. On whether they believe Nero tunneled me as town or as scum. Within the voters at the height of my wagon there is scum within there. It overlaps almost exactly with the jibril wagon and I include Nero in that since he was the intended hammer. Or at least stated he would before end of day.

Emporer living today means he lives for the next 2 minimum since town will, and should be, focused on your slots (those involved with my push). Then you have flippy looking as a question mark for those 2 days so if you aren't willing to Lynch him today there's no point in discussing him.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that you're probably not partners with Nero and that he legitimately tried to get you lynched. So assuming he'd latch onto this voting bloc can't you make any conclusion today that you're pleading us to make tomorrow?

I don't like the bit about deferring to Emp. I've been thinking since sod that Creature has been yuck voting him, because if he wanted it to go through, he could be more spirited about it. Compromising really makes no sense.

If you don't go through, Creature doesn't go through and profii doesn't go through... Then we have to ask why they won't. I can only explain away your wagon by scum being skittish if I townread you, but you're going to have to do better, esp with your reads I feel like there's a better conclusion to make than Emp.

Lycanfire · Post Post #1298 (isolation #57) » Wed Mar 06, 2019 3:28 am

That's a defense I've haven't encountered yet

Lycanfire · Post Post #1310 (isolation #58) » Wed Mar 06, 2019 7:05 am

In post 1299, RCEnigma wrote:What's the case on creature?

His early Sashaddin vote was shit

In post 160, Lycanfire wrote:i actually liked that post but then again i had the benefit of reading the thread up to your PC comment, which mades me think you weren't beginning sincere to begin with. what exactly is wrong with sashaddin advancing the game?
why would you make 51 unless you were looking for a post EXACTLY like the one sashaddin replied with?
the answer seems pretty clear to me: that's the bait and switch, like the magic eye of baits and switches that becomes apparent when the gimmick is recognized. you're actually being sincere when you make 51... because you're out to vote anybody that looks like they can be voted as a result of it.

I almost always pick scum immediately out of RVS. Newbie 1717, Newbie 1791, Kidney Mafia, Newbie 1824, Perpetual Mylo III, Mini Normal 1982, Micro 798, Team Mafia. That's just under half my town games. One town game featured Mastina who is totally not in this game derp hammering Alisae by like the end of page 2. Four games were ones I replaced into. 8/12 games relevant games (considering that survivor game to be town bc town would have lost if not for me). If scum are present to scum it up, I find it every time.

He slips away from wagons

I pushed {creature, vedith} yesterday but vedith was the wagon that won out, despite my vote being on creature and asking people about creature.

He reaches his first peak on page 7. Cue two pages of talking about Creature, and profii posts this:

In post 206, profii wrote:Creature spamming one liners is a town tell if he maintains it I guess

Vedith being more important than Creature, page 13 he hits his peak votes

In post 323, stan1ey wrote:
In post 322, rosterfoster wrote:I don't understand this Jbril wagon. But Bujaber, Flippynips, and Creature are town. I'm getting real bad feels from both eyes and Vedith. For eyes, 176 feels wrong to me. 255 from Flippynipps is accuracte I think - that was such a forced interaction. And Vedith has just been trolling, but it's not in a way which actually gets reactions, which I think is what Vedith would be trying to do as town.

VOTE: Vedith
100% agree

Three pages later, Eyes gets 6 votes in a row. Four of those voters were Vedith voters.

Where's Creature? Back on Jibril with you and your bunk mates (BuJaber, Emp). There's a pattern here too.

In post 1301, RCEnigma wrote:Creature poking outside of his counterwagon is +town. Not wanting to Lynch his counterwagon is +town. Him voting flippy is +town regardless of flippys alignment. Creatures alignment also isn't tied to the amount of attention he pays to the game so I don't think him not realizing the votecount in regards to flippy is something I would read either way. However it's more likely he does that as town than informed scum to be cheeky.

Fypov, if town, Creature not voting you is WORSE. If it's you or him that's just another straw on the pile I can add. He's seeing it coming. I already posted my readslist mid day. Here's his ft. scum!you. So why NOT you? Is "RCEnigma town"? Let's check. No not really, but it sure would suck if people did lynch you. Oh, please don't do that! So he votes profii, another unspirited push, which doesn't last because reasons, and sits back on Emp.

All aboard the magic Creature bus

Creature at 3 votes? 2 pages of silence. I vote Creature? Looks like shit's about to get FUCKY.

Spoiler: data

He's a flux voter

I gave my reads in the middle of the day and didn't want to talk much about it because I was hoping for some sort of response regarding Roster. Enigma gave me enough to be satisfied to post my flux voter theory which I had been thinking about since SOD. You took the same reasoning but ran backwards with the completely opposite conclusion in 821. For whatever reason you're unable to develop good reads despite repeated prompting. If you have all the information I do then why can't you see scum!Creature?

Creature doesn't care about this game

This is more supplementary evidence, but Creature is trying to activate his trust tell or whatever the fuck people are townreading him for. Nothing of what he's saying matters. Also, he's more active than this as town, and frequently chooses to pass over this thread in favor of other games. I don't believe this speaks to his alignment in those other games, but it speaks to his alignment here, because he doesn't want to play because it will jeopardize his trust tell. When he posts here is an avalanche of opinions on XXX 1000th outdated post that he never brings up again and shows no attachment to.

This entire point is garbage that only reinforces his tell, by the way, because in the future he can make his tell look more subjective and avoid his inevitable ban by arguing he posts a lot, even if it's obvious to literate people that everything he says is firey crap. The mods won't care and in the words of Not_Mafia

Lycanfire · Post Post #1313 (isolation #59) » Wed Mar 06, 2019 7:36 am

In post 1305, stan1ey wrote:
In post 1290, Lycanfire wrote:
In post 1225, RCEnigma wrote:VOTE: Rce not to hold the game hostage or anything but, pretty please?
Do you have a game where you've done this as town before?
Whats the purpose of this post?

Lycanfire · Post Post #1417 (isolation #60) » Fri Mar 08, 2019 6:32 am

In post 1355, rosterfoster wrote:Who are you?

Just so it's not a secret in the scum PT the mast is a component in a ship a

Stop playing games

In post 1374, Sashaddin wrote:
In post 1369, Creature wrote:Also I suggest you to policy lynch anyone unwilling to move away from me. They know at this point I can confirm myself as town yet they'd rather waste their time on me so they aren't forced to actually scumhunt.
How can you confirm yourself to be town?

Even though he says he becomes confirmed on lynching scum he's actually referring to his town tell. He can't actually say it without getting banned from playing mafia so he uses subtext.

Lycanfire · Post Post #1418 (isolation #61) » Fri Mar 08, 2019 6:32 am

In post 1415, Flapjack wrote:I'll admit I didn't catch up yet, I will do it right now and I'll hammer depending on my thoughts

Dumstral

Lycanfire · Post Post #1419 (isolation #62) » Fri Mar 08, 2019 6:34 am

My compromise lynches: profii roster bujaber succinct

I don't think it's a coincidence that both RCE and Emp got wagoned after I brought up the flux voter theory. It's deflection onto the Jibril tunnelers from the fluxers.

Lycanfire · Post Post #1423 (isolation #63) » Fri Mar 08, 2019 6:43 am

I interpreted his sign up in queue as wanting to play with Boon but apparently reading into things is passé

Lycanfire · Post Post #1500 (isolation #64) » Mon Mar 11, 2019 3:14 am

It's probably a testament to sanity if you're scumreading me after these two days...

Profii was on my shit list yesterday but for bad reasons. I need to read the thread over again and re-calibrate.

Lycanfire · Tue Mar 12, 2019 11:02 am

Can't produce a solve this game. I can't make a team without using someone in Creature's top townpool.

For instance the difference between RCE-profii wagons yesterday are 0verki11, BuJaber, Nero, Succinct. The difference between profii-Emp was Nero. profii, Sashaddin, Flapjack, Enigma were on Creature and voted Emp by eod.

Of the Creature voters yesterday I think Enigma had some of the better intentions.

I think 0verki11 and Eyes are town and I think Succinct can't be scum?

Everything I said yesterday is complete bunk. Scum might be newer or less familiar with Vedith but they're not dumb. So essentially what RCEnigma said yesterday except I combined it with some theory of new scum not only believing Vedith but also being afraid of not being able to lynch him and ended up wasting the day arguing instead of agreeing with anyone. I think refusing to vote Creature with me despite the evidence having looked good for it makes RCE town.

VOTE: Sashaddin

Just going to give Creature my vote today

I think flipping in a pool of {BuJaber, profii, Flapjack, Sashaddin} has the best yield possible.

Lycanfire · Tue Mar 12, 2019 11:04 am

I did have a look through profii's scumgames but scum PTs weren't often released (this should be a normal guideline IMO). From the games that weren't released his team's PR hitting rate seemed lacking. In Mini 2001 he accurately called Lovebird as doc and his team killed her, but it was Nero that first wanted Lovebird dead and the team seemed to agree that she was some kind of PR.

Lycanfire · Tue Mar 12, 2019 11:26 am

Roster but it's probably meaningless

Lycanfire · Post Post #1795 (isolation #68) » Tue Mar 12, 2019 3:22 pm

In post 1792, Sashaddin wrote:Looks like there is at least 1 town on my wagon. I'd say Lycan, then maybe Flapjack. Any one wants to comment?

creature and rce

Lycanfire · Post Post #1796 (isolation #69) » Tue Mar 12, 2019 3:22 pm

VOTE: Enigma

Lycanfire · Post Post #1813 (isolation #70) » Tue Mar 12, 2019 5:20 pm

can we not have this discussion?

Lycanfire · Post Post #1823 (isolation #71) » Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:15 pm

Considering following Creature means I never out a mason maybe you should question my fucking motives before you throw shade

Lycanfire · Post Post #1824 (isolation #72) » Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:16 pm

I could be on a mason right now, it won't matter and scum won't know shit.

Lycanfire · Post Post #1826 (isolation #73) » Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:18 pm

Lycanfire · Post Post #1828 (isolation #74) » Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:21 pm

it's the netflix adaption

Lycanfire · Post Post #1830 (isolation #75) » Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:31 pm

In post 1823, Lycanfire wrote:Considering following Creature means I never out a mason maybe you should question my fucking motives before you throw shade

In post 1825, Nero Cain wrote:well, what are they?

In post 1824, Lycanfire wrote:I could be on a mason right now, it won't matter and scum won't know shit.

This is the first question you've asked me all day. How long is enough time to let you talk for me?

Lycanfire · Post Post #1832 (isolation #76) » Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:42 pm

Your solve isn't advancing the game. I'm hanging around waiting for Creature to start caring about the day or work it through on his own. I'm here and have been here and you've been making me an acceptable vote since the start of day.

We can skip the foreplay. If you think I'm scum vote me. Holding me on the peripheral and ignoring me is keeping me out of the game, and it hasn't done anything.

Lycanfire · Post Post #2028 (isolation #77) » Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:40 pm

In post 2023, Creature wrote:(I don't trust these wagons)

we could always lynch somebody i scumread for once

bujaber
profii

if we want demoralizing shit lynches eyes seems like a good candidate over rce

but prob those two if we were looking to win

Lycanfire · Post Post #2059 (isolation #78) » Fri Mar 15, 2019 2:35 pm

VOTE: BuJaber

Lycanfire · Post Post #2060 (isolation #79) » Fri Mar 15, 2019 2:36 pm

whatami ignoring btw

Lycanfire · Post Post #2063 (isolation #80) » Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:01 pm

You're not asking me to do anything with that

It's on the same level of 0verki11 saying I had a motive to kill Stan1ey

What's the point in dictating what people can say?

The difference between something like that and 1822 was your critical thinking failure. Basically: not sure if scum or dumb. If you think I'm adhoming you for the purpose of making noise go talk to other people about it.

Lycanfire · Post Post #2077 (isolation #81) » Sat Mar 16, 2019 5:53 am

Sure
VOTE: profii

Lycanfire · Post Post #2106 (isolation #82) » Sun Mar 17, 2019 7:08 am

Lycanfire · Post Post #2131 (isolation #83) » Wed Mar 20, 2019 6:12 am

popcorn, choose the next person roster

Lycanfire · Post Post #2132 (isolation #84) » Wed Mar 20, 2019 6:12 am

gunsmith check is 100% town in normals

Lycanfire · Post Post #2148 (isolation #85) » Wed Mar 20, 2019 4:28 pm

VT, BuJ

Lycanfire · Post Post #2204 (isolation #86) » Thu Mar 21, 2019 5:36 pm

parting reads besides 0verki11?

Lycanfire · Post Post #2205 (isolation #87) » Thu Mar 21, 2019 5:38 pm

have you played on a different mafia site before RCEnigma?

Lycanfire · Post Post #2208 (isolation #88) » Thu Mar 21, 2019 6:02 pm

0verki11's done two pretty uniquely towny things that come from MU players

The first was promoting a CFD (chinese fire drill) off of Jibril when one was still viable

The other has been providing cover for masons, which is basically commonplace meta there. That's not to say 0verki11 can't do MU-things here that seem vaguely towny in order to sound towny, but at the same time I'm not convinced he isn't a mason, but I imagine we'll have a good idea by the end of day.

Is he still your top scumread?

Lycanfire · Post Post #2209 (isolation #89) » Thu Mar 21, 2019 6:04 pm

If Nero claims VT how does that affect your read on him?

Lycanfire · Post Post #2231 (isolation #90) » Fri Mar 22, 2019 4:16 am

In post 2215, insomnia wrote:Why are you defending him? I’m pretty sure he can do that himself. Aren’t you afraid that if he flips scum you’ll be accused as his scum bud defending him?

People would do that anyway though. There's no point in playing scared especially if costs you the opportunity to talk someone out if a bad read. You wouldn't want him to go down with 1-2 poorly explained reads from either align. You remove his read and he's pretty much forced to talk about another.

What it tells me: RCE is probably flipping scum, disbelieving a third mason is bad (why else is creature refusing to claim? He was clearly waiting in Nero.) Nero quickhammer sucked because it removed Creature's ability to claim. RCE wants the ""invests"" to be town because there's scum in them.

Lycanfire · Post Post #2384 (isolation #91) » Fri Mar 22, 2019 6:41 pm

In post 2367, Creature wrote:or do someone personally doesn't trust Nero here?

I don't. Nero's pool (beyond saying I have reads that I don't) runs with the assumption that Roster and Buj are town. This means we have 2 JK+3 masons+1 gated gunsmith+1 watcher. The entire assumption begins with half the townies in the game having a PR, and all of them are top class ones.

Let's follow that assumption.

In post 2235, RCEnigma wrote:Actually, both invests probably town. A third mason can be confirmed via creature tomorrow so it really doesn't matter if I think there is a third or not and he certainly doesn't have to claim it today.

If both Roster and Buj are town then I don't see how you ever make it to D5. Ninja is banned, but roleblocker isn't.

In post 2244, Creature wrote:I don't trust BuJaber's claim

In post 2245, RCEnigma wrote:Bujaber is pigeonholed by his claim. Is Nero legit third mason? Is overkill innocent because you're informed or you just trust your read?

In post 2247, BuJaber wrote:What does pigeonholed mean?

In post 2253, RCEnigma wrote:Bujaber is obligated to keep roster or creature alive and if one dies then Bujaber essentially becomes...idk what role fits, the remaining conftown becomes bulletproof till Bujaber dies.

I don't believe this sequence of posts to be legitimate

. If there was a townie in the room one of them would have raised their hands and said "this is stupid because of scum power".

In post 2125, RCEnigma wrote:Well so has Nero, and Bujaber. But that's none of my business *sips tea*

In post 2211, RCEnigma wrote:Because I'm not sure I can add Bujaber to that +1 or not.

I don't like how RCE got to "both invests probtown".

In post 2236, RCEnigma wrote:Why would I assume 3 masons? If you can support that via Stanley's iso fine. But your argument for town overkill having general off-site meta day 1 and not overkill specific meta at that, doesn't locktown him for me. Sorry.

I don't like how RCE skipped over your not-buying the claims post or how Nero wanted the mass claim and you didn't.

In post 2336, Creature wrote:Meh, gonna buy BuJ's claim because what else do we have?

A bunch of masons that could have been more pro town while the jailkeepers were still alive. Scum outplayed themselves today.

CLAIM ORDER
Roster->RCE->
(insomnia)
Eyes->0verki11->Myself->BuJ->
(Enigma)
Succinct
(Nero on your behalf)
You

Possible permutations:
RCE, BuJ, Enigma, Succinct
Roster, RCE, BuJ, {Enigma, Succinct}

Talk to Nero because he's going to be conf biased on RCE's flip.

Lycanfire · Post Post #2385 (isolation #92) » Fri Mar 22, 2019 6:42 pm

you can self now if you want i got what i wanted out of day

Lycanfire · Mon Mar 25, 2019 10:31 pm

i'm sick and feverish and don't care to do much more than this rn

Spoiler: vote counts

Spoiler: vote data

i don't think my thoughts change any from yesterday. we don't have 7 PRs. i thought both rce and bujaber were shitplaying and i never expected a townie to threaten self hammer and actually do it. rce was kinda irrelevant and i hope he's okay, dunno what kind of mental place he's in right now. his flip wasn't useless though, and i think this is +++to claim order mattering because rce is another top half vt.

Lycanfire · Post Post #2449 (isolation #94) » Tue Mar 26, 2019 9:31 pm

This is scripted as fuck.

I'm guessing this is a super cool show to distract from this -

Spoiler: super cool wagon

Profii's just sitting there but both Sashaddin and RCEnigma get counterwagoned. Like why, is going on profii on your own too suspicious? The last two people on the wagon were Succinct-Roster. Succinct voted Enigma, Roster left for RCE. Profii didn't start again until both Sashaddin and 0verki11 voted him.

Lycanfire · Post Post #2450 (isolation #95) » Tue Mar 26, 2019 9:36 pm

In post 2442, Enigma wrote:Also BUJ buses hard as scum, making me consider lycan in the scum pool as well. Later problem

What game are you basing this on?

Sort out who is the bus please. I'm fine being scum with both of you. Later problem.

Lycanfire · Post Post #2451 (isolation #96) » Tue Mar 26, 2019 9:45 pm

Sashaddin votes Enigma (profii, Nero Cain, Creature, Lycanfire, Sashaddin)
Rosterfoster votes RCEnigma (BuJaber, Nero Cain, insomnia, profii, Rosterfoster)
Lycanfire votes BuJaber (RCEnigma, Creature, Lycanfire)
Enigma votes profii (Sashaddin, 0verki11, Creature, insomnia, Rosterfoster, Lycanfire, Enigma)

Both these wagons look survivalist as fuck.

Lycanfire · Post Post #2452 (isolation #97) » Tue Mar 26, 2019 9:48 pm

Page 14

Vedith
votes Rosterfoster (
Vedith
)
Eyes without a face votes Rosterfoster (
Vedith
, Eyes without a face)

Sashaddin
votes Rosterfoster (
Vedith
, Eyes without a face,
Sashaddin
)

Page 15

There was no vote on page 15

Page 16

Stan1ey
votes Eyes without a face (
Stan1ey
)

Nero Cain
votes Eyes without a face (
Stan1ey
,
Nero Cain
)
Enigma votes Eyes without a face (
Stan1ey
,
Nero Cain
, Enigma)

RCEnigma
votes Eyes without a face (
Stan1ey
,
Nero Cain
, Enigma,
RCEnigma
)
BuJaber votes
Vedith
(Rosterfoster, BuJaber)
Rosterfoster votes Eyes without a face (
Stan1ey
,
Nero Cain
, Enigma,
RCEnigma
, Rosterfoster)

Page 17

profii
votes Eyes without a face (
Stan1ey
,
Nero Cain
, Enigma,
RCEnigma
, Rosterfoster,
profii
)

I literally can't find any other wagons besides that time I vanitied roster while {amor, enigma} were already on Creature d2.

Lycanfire · Post Post #2453 (isolation #98) » Tue Mar 26, 2019 9:59 pm

Rosterfoster votes Vedith (Bujaber, Nero Cain, Amor, Lycanfire, Enigma, Rosterfoster)

lol

nero humble pie please

Lycanfire · Tue Mar 26, 2019 10:07 pm

not sure who i'd kick out. i'd say succinct bussing enigma is = the chance of eyes getting flashwagoned by their own team. i mean, that wagon was literal blank votes. if i'd add eyes i'd remove roster and if succinct... prob wonder why there's 5 scum

Lycanfire · Thu Mar 28, 2019 3:18 am

VOTE: Enigma

Bye Felicia

Lycanfire · Thu Mar 28, 2019 3:19 am

I stayed up all night for this shit

Lycanfire · Thu Mar 28, 2019 3:21 am

He wasn't, so don't feel bad

Lycanfire · Thu Mar 28, 2019 4:15 am

You're all going to see some shit in the scum pt and it's 100% shitposting

Don't take any of it seriously

and if you do

compare it to the timestamps in the thread

and if i still seem like an asshole

i'm trying to change

Lycanfire · Thu Mar 28, 2019 4:19 am

In post 2555, schadd_ wrote:join my mini theme

no ppl should join light ganskis mini theme

Lycanfire · Thu Mar 28, 2019 4:20 am

me backup mod light ganski game. that's how you know it's the good shit.

Lycanfire · Thu Mar 28, 2019 6:32 am

The global setup information hurt town. It hurt town in a predictable way. Take that away and town look a lot stronger.