Newbie 1916: Epic Music [Game Over!]

[TemporalLich]

And here we go!

[TemporalLich]

VOTE: roomy

something something or another

[TemporalLich]

What’s everyone’s exerpience level?

like 1-2 games on epicmafia or something.

I'd say like 0.1% experienced

[TemporalLich]

A lack of confidence, dishonesty, or seemingly having something to hide are probably scumtells, but I'm just a newbie.

[TemporalLich]

UNVOTE: roomy

roomy and Skellen currently strike me as soft town.

[TemporalLich]

Can you answer my self-meta questions from 19 - I know youve already answered 1 and 4, but Id be interested in 2 and 3 as well.

As town I would try to find scum based on instincts and posts. As scum, I would pretend to do so while hiding in the darkness.

[TemporalLich]

I removed my RVS vote for safety, don't wish to be on a town's wagon

[TemporalLich]

Clemency is pretty much my only possible townread, the rest seem to be neutrals

[TemporalLich]

Lich, what changed about your reads on skellen and I? what about Clem gives you a town read?

Regression toward the mean to be honest. I'm not inclined to vote right now.

Clemency feels trustworthy and confident to me so that vindicates him.

[TemporalLich]

The second beettlejuice answer, combined with the retreat from an expression of earlier copied town-reads especially when Skellen has not regressed in thread presence seems like a good enough reason for me.

VOTE: TemporalLich

Beetlejuice answer? That's something I've never heard before.

I'm taking the L due to the accidental slip, trying to cover it up is pretty much just game throwing.

[TemporalLich]

Beetlejuice - when you say someone’s name in thread and they suddenly appear despite low presence generally. The first one was to me. Both may just be when you are regularly online though.

Oh I get it. Not sure how to counter that...

Taking the L? Accidental slip? I’m confused.

Taking the L = taking the loss i.e. accepting you messed up

The accidental slip is when I flubbed two "possible town" reads back to neutral without any evidence.

[TemporalLich]

Fair enough. FYI as a general usage, “slip” means to accidenrally reveal your role/alignment. Outside of that context, I’d say mistake just for clarity.

Alright. Made an honest mistake in terminology then.

What’s your UTC/GMT offset?

UTC -5

[TemporalLich]

FYI roomy and Skellen still register as neutral to me, it's not like I'm switching them back to soft town because of a mistake.

I'm gonna need a ledger.

[TemporalLich]

@Lich - OK, theyre null to you now. Can you articulate why you soft-towned them before? Or was that the accident? If so, can you explain why you posted it and only it?

Mostly instinct, no scummy posts from them and active participation is what led to soft town

[TemporalLich]

Ok. So has skellen made a scummy post? Because otherwise I don’t get how she moved to mull - the active participation certainly remained, and she seems to have the same confidence as Clem?

I have nothing to justify Skellen being neutral now but unconfidence will be the death of me so I must stay strong.

He's not NAI or scum, that's for sure.

[TemporalLich]

*She

Yeah, I don't think roomy is that active.

[TemporalLich]

Now maybe I am failing here because English is not my native language, but what is he saying here? I am no scum, I am no NAI (thus null I guess?), he can't justify me being neutral (then why even saying this?), but I am also no town as he repeated again. So what... am I even now at this point?

You've reached plaid it seems. For now I'll say your read is No Result.

I am indecisive if chaotic neutral or chaotic evil with this one. His posts after #72 didn't looked better.

I wouldn't know either.

[TemporalLich]

@Lich -- who's the scummiest player in the game to you, right now? if you had to pick, etc.

CatStar

[TemporalLich]

I wouldn't know either.

You on the other hand are going to L-2 for now. VOTE: Lich

I don't get the logic behind your vote. Seems reactionary to me. This is consistent considering you're a No Result.

I am starting to believe that you are purposely messing around with us. It's bothering me for a while that I always see you lurking here yet nothing is coming from you unless there is talk about you. Scum or clueless town, I want to see more initiative from you. I see roomy already asked you something. Since activity seems to be one of your greater criteria for reading people I would like to hear your opinion on teacher in one or two sentences as he is the most active player here.

teacher is really good at grilling and is a trustworthy person. He's also the most helpful person here so far. Therefore, I'm inclined to believe he is town.

I'm warming up to the game, it's hard to be active if no one's really active.

PEdit: Ok and what makes you see CatStar as the most scummiest person at the moment?

I think she's the least towny out of all of us. Probably an active lurker tbh.

VOTE: CatStar

@roomy:
I support the question about teacher's conclusions from his conversation with Lich. It ended a bit abrupt considering Lich's posts just got more confusing. As for the arguments he isn't believing in, would you like to show which posts you mean in particular as example?

Sorry about that, the confusion is probably mostly related to your read.

[TemporalLich]

If Skellen's read were to deresolve it would most likely become scum, not town.

[TemporalLich]

If Skellen's read were to deresolve it would most likely become scum, not town.

Because....?

At the risk of sounding super OMGUSy, I feel her vote is baseless.

[TemporalLich]

At the risk of sounding super OMGUSy, I feel her vote is baseless.

Why? What's so different between her and teacher or roomy's vote? She has made multiple posts about you, explaining a scum read.

I thought it came out of nowhere considering the chaotic neutral question...

I'm L-1 right now so if I die, it wasn't worth it.

[TemporalLich]

I'm inclined to believe person is town despite the instant vote against me.

His entrance shows initiative and he analyzes everyone.

I think it's probably fair to give roomy a town read at this point. There is no scum play article by teacher. I'm having a hard time believing scum!roomy doesn't go looking for it

and im having a hard time believing scum!roomy doesn't say anything about not being able to find it given two opportunities.

could be a false positive but like.... it's probably not

one exception would be if roomy and teacher are both scum together, but given my town read on teacher, seems pretty unlikely.

@roomy are you town reading Lich? Or just not ready for the day to be over?

I'm inclined to believe you, and yeah scum roomy and teacher is not likely.

Teacher almost hits the "probably town" zone of being townie.

[TemporalLich]

I removed my RVS vote for safety, don't wish to be on a town's wagon

You hit it on the head with your read that he's trying to avoid confrontation. I don't like how he's apologizing for things like his read changes. It feels like he doesn't actually care where his reads are, and is just trying to escape an argument. The whole early game feels nervous, too with a touch of lamist (like unvoting for safety, =/ )

I'm trying to engage with TL as we speak, though, so I don't want to get deep in the weeds on this rn

well if scum wins then the town wasn't good enough, we should try to avoid lynching PR's, otherwise we lose and the bad guys win.

TvT confrontations that drag out even though it's known to be TvT make scum win in the confusion.

I'm leaning toward a Skellen/CatStar scumteam

[TemporalLich]

@TL have you read 159?

Just in case you missed this

thanks, yeah my accidental waffling on reads was almost fatal

[TemporalLich]

Mate, I don't think you're really trying to evaluate this game. You agreed with me about Roomy, didn't give any supporting reasons, and don't seem to realize that the entire basis of my read had been seriously called into question just posts earlier.

Is there a thought process you can share to help explain why this comes from town?

I've been mostly trusting my instinct to be honest. If I die today, then I probably shouldn't play Mafia ever again.

Roomy also seems instinctual, and I just don't see anything that would suggest roomy to be mendacious (which is fatal, btw)

[TemporalLich]

I think I might discard my reads and start over.

[TemporalLich]

I'm not sure what to do at this point...

If I don't make it to D2 there's no hope for me

[TemporalLich]

I totally missed "posts" in my own self meta. So here's a hasty and careless PbP. Nobody likes being careful in this game, so this is most likely gold.

UNVOTE: Lewis
VOTE: TemporalLich

wanted to get this in before bed — weird comment above, after going so far as to unvote me because he “didn’t want to be on a town’s wagon” — note the language there, it’s assured (re: my comment earlier about scum knowing alignment) — I don’t think that’s a straight up scumslip but that earlier level of confidence combined with the above waffly post is sketchy enough for a vote for me.

Lich, what changed about your reads on skellen and I? what about Clem gives you a town read?

I'm giving roomy town points for this, that analysis was almost perfect. The comment about the RVS unvote is good. Though, I wouldn't want to vote roomy regardless if roomy is towny.

teacher also has town points for excellent grilling skills tempered with wisdom.

I am indecisive if chaotic neutral or chaotic evil with this one. His posts after #72 didn't looked better.

Leaning scum here since this is probably a convenient trap used to smear me. Not sure what D&D alignment has to do with the game, so to be safe I'm calling it scummy.

Good start so far. I like where this game is going
Right now I've got town reads on skellen, teacher, and catstar. The first two are pretty obv!town and I liked catstar's thought processes in 80

clem I want to town read. he agrees with me on skellen, good. Paranoia about teacher is pretty meh tho. Teacher feels to me like the type of player one should just allow to be obv!town until he's eloquently pushing a bad argument. I haven't read any of his scum games, but his play is too effortful to replicate as scum without making some ill-considered arguments along the way. I agree with teacher that with time clem will be easier to read by play more than by tone/early content

not town:
emp - not much here yet. good note by teacher on his comment that scum tries too hard. Entrance post is bad, too
birdy - another possibly scum indicative entrance post. I didn't like his 77. I'm also town reading skellen, but his reasons feels fabricated. It's page three. I don't know why town would make the conclusion that *any* slot is unpushable? 78 is a little better even if i disagree

and i do

lich's slot is the scummiest slot in this game.

VOTE: lich L-1


Btw guys, I had a great game with loopdan just finish - newbie 1915. I think he's /in'd for nsg's mini theme game as well if ya'll are interested in a redux

Nice entry! Instinct and analysis are the perfect town combo.

Skellen tries to defend her vote in 167 saying the question wasn't even a question and continuing to push the idea I'm scum. Scum probable now. No buddies as of now.

CatStar is lean NAI.

If I haven't said anything about you here, you're neutral.

[TemporalLich]

Could you talk more about how Skellen might have been trying to trap you?

this is a p townie post

113 and 116 are required for context.

I see it as oriented toward me as a player but I feel that's an unpopular opinion. Regardless I'm going softscum.

[TemporalLich]

Skellen tries to defend her vote in 167 saying the question wasn't even a question and continuing to push the idea I'm scum.

Of course I get back at you when you feel to step into the thread and throw a false accusation at me like in #128. I just like how you ignore the rest of my post you referred to (again) and just cherrypick the "question trap". I honestly can't follow on this one, it's imo pretty straight forward stated by me.

I will just ask again what I already did in my older post. Why did you vote CatStar over flippy or Birdy when both were worse lurkers than her at that point? And what are you thinking of flippy now, particularly in context of what I pointed out in #205? I know you read him as neutral, thus you didn't write anything about him, but I would still like to hear one or two sentences from you about him.

Lurking isn't a big issue compared to having ulterior motives.

Also I'd call flippy and birdy inactive, which is forgivable.

Since I didn't find any in my PbP, my vote is better off being on someone who's actually on the scum radar.

VOTE: Skellen

[TemporalLich]

As for Emp L-1ing me, the forgivable part is being L-1 puts pressure on you and you'll either break or bend.

I do have to agree it's awfully convenient and scummy especially considering I was already at L-1

with intent

. So more scumlean.

[TemporalLich]

UNVOTE: temporallich
not my top lynch candidate anymore

Nice fake unvote.

[TemporalLich]

Back to L-1 with intent with a lot of posts... Let me analyze this before I get liched...

[TemporalLich]

TL: disagree with their read. Note that their reanalysis came out with the same result not as conceived this is townie. @temporallich: what do you think of the fact most other people are town reading your scum read? What prompted you to go back and re evaluate?

Wanted to get reads that made sense for Town, along with some posts to back up the reads.

So, I want Lich lynched. I'm putting the vote back up and going to make my case.
VOTE: TemporalLich.

This is L-1.

First, we have the obvious, confusing play and some odd wordings. Im not going to belabor this one, since it has been much discussed already.

Second, we have the continued waffling. This hasnt been hit as much. 115 says CatStar's the scummiest, and 117 explains as an active lurker. But 198 moves CatStar to a lean NAI without explanation -- CatStar's rate of posting hadn't increased (about 5% of posts 120-180; about 4% of posts 10-120, with about the same level of interaction).

Third, which is both related and to me most telling, I see no effort to solve at all. At no point does Lich investigate any of his suspects -- I dont see questions directed to CatStar or Skellen. It seems almost as if he knows their alignment, and is seeing what sticks. The lack of desire to solve -- investigate or justify his reads with specific reactions to specific posts just comes across as not towny.

Fourth, and the most compelling point for scum!good, is Birdy's 78. I saw this as a potential partnership play, of accelerating the wagon that was tied with Lich and hopefully redirecting attention to another slot.

Finally, I think we learn the most from flipping Lich. His near-lynch wagon (roomy-skellen-me-Urap-

Clem's intent

) would almost certainly contain one scum if he flips green. This information would force me to reevaluate the townblock I am willing to form to PoE this game with Roomy, Skellen, and URAP.

I conclude by reminding the board this is L-1

Yeah you can put me on the scum radar for being confusing. 198 is after a PbP, which the other two reads sorely lacked. Not sure I can ask much while at L-1 with intent. I don't think Birdy was scummy. Can't really dispute my lich being useful (read: convenient) without sounding super OMGUSy.

If I die today, then I probably shouldn't play Mafia ever again.

Nooo! That is distinctly NOT the point of newbie games. They are to learn how to play generally, and learn some skills to playing well. Regardless of your alignment, if you are today's lynch you can learn why people suspected you and learn how to avoid it (again, regardless of alignment). Scum-catches and mislynches all happen, the point is to make sure you are having fun and trying to win, not necessarily survive til the end game.

Alright thanks.

so i guess you could consider this intent
but we still have a bunch of time left to discuss

Welp here's the intent.

like I feel like I’ve said before, I’m not super opposed to a TempralLynch for a lot of the reasons teacher mentioned; if anything his flip will certainly be informative. I still think nips is more likely to flip scum but with two days left I don’t think it’s worth going all out for him today.

again on mobile today/generally will be a little slow this weekend, I have some old friends coming to stay with me. apologies in advance

Same applies to my response to 223

no i agree on the lich case
i just want my slot cleared

This has got to be the scummiest way to declare intent I've ever seen.

Clem, claim intent explicitly. At this point I dont think those on the wagon will unvote, so Lich should know whether or not he should roleclaim.

I guess it's time for me to declare myself and hope this doesn't get me killed.

I am the VT.

[TemporalLich]

congrats to the town I guess