Starcraft Mafia: 2 -- Game Over!

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Post Post #63  (isolation #0)  » Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:30 pm

VOTE: Alchemist21

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Post Post #253  (isolation #1)  » Tue Jan 08, 2019 4:45 am

In post 62, Almost Chara wrote:Um.. erm.. insert the usual role crumb here. Imagine it something genuine, VERY POWERFUL and extremely dangerous to your faction (i.e. I want scum to think we can single-handedly eradicate their team, but also town to consider us a major threat).

~You know who it is, silly. Does Chara post like this?

A major threat to both factions, hm? It's confirmed 11 town vs 3 scum, but it would've been somewhat entertaining if you "breadcrumbed" that you were an SK -ahem- I mean town vigilante.

In post 142, Michael Scott wrote:
In post 137, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:Varsoon posted 2 links, one to Starcraft 1, where you encouraged everyone multiple times to “stretch their mind” and the second, to TAZ, where you didn’t do that even once.

This is sound.

My vote's on there in spirit as well.

Also Alchemist feels town.
UNVOTE:

~Jimothy

Okay, so you wanted to vote them in spirit but you couldn't. Did you have any other leads outside of Shoshin the worst that you would've liked to pursue at the time of making this post or was that the only slot you received scum vibes up to ?

In post 204, Alchemist21 wrote:I think mephisto giving outs makes them Town. Scum-to-Town wouldn’t give an out at all, and we know scum have daytalk so if they were scum together I imagine that giving them an idea on how to excuse their play would have happened in the scum PT. Town gives outs like that when they want to consider the possibilities without jumping the gun. It’s a fluffy slot but I think that’s mostly Ari being Ari.

Not really following this. Why does scum-to-town not give an out at all? Why does the described scum-to-scum scenario have to involve Mephistophanes 39 giving an out to Shoshin the worst at all?

In post 251, ProFlavor wrote:I don't like u r a person 2 pushing pint - the push has a lot of stuff that pint hasn't done (e.g. promise of catch up) and less stuff along the lines of "pint is scummy because he did X"

why is activity now AI?

~ woof

It doesn't really look like a push to me, it just looks like they responded to Shoshin the worst's inquiry. Doesn't the post right above () fit along the lines described in of "pint is scummy because he did X"?

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Post Post #765  (isolation #2)  » Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:56 am

Hey Gamma, can I ask you a question? Do you think that I should be town reading you this game?

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Post Post #772  (isolation #3)  » Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:07 am

I like u r a person 2 for town quite a bit actually, and I would be willing to do my first active sort to them, Taly or Varsoon.

I think NicoRobin is a decent point to poke with a stick before deadline rears too close, but is a bad wagon to get going near deadline in case they are really just apathetic!town.

I don't know why pinturrichio keeps pushing their content back repeatedly but it's not a great look.

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Post Post #965  (isolation #4)  » Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:42 am

In post 936, Taly wrote:
In post 63, Mewtaph wrote:VOTE: Alchemist21

Considering that this vote hasn't left, was it serious?

Yes. You can take that vote as serious in that I haven't seen any other wagon was compelling enough for me to shift my vote. I don't buy how he's approaching the game state as genuine.

In post 936, Taly wrote:
In post 765, Mewtaph wrote:Hey Gamma, can I ask you a question? Do you think that I should be town reading you this game?

What answer were you expecting here?

It was an open ended question, so I wasn't expecting any answer in particular.

In post 936, Taly wrote:
In post 772, Mewtaph wrote:I like u r a person 2 for town quite a bit actually, and I would be willing to do my first active sort to them, Taly or Varsoon.

I think NicoRobin is a decent point to poke with a stick before deadline rears too close, but is a bad wagon to get going near deadline in case they are really just apathetic!town.

I don't know why pinturrichio keeps pushing their content back repeatedly but it's not a great look.

I didn't like the initial voting on UP2 when I first skimmed through it, the reasons for a scumread there lacked substance (Prompting Michael Scott to explain why he thought UP2's posts were manufactured, that's the vote that most got my attention when it happened.)

I agree a bit on Nico. A lurker lynch won't get anywhere, and I don't trust the fact that everyone is like "where's the scum at"?

:/ I get my vote on Kokichi contradicts the above statement, but I'm working to change this.

Pint pushing content back... not a great look? Or scum-indicative?

I thought ignoring u r a person 2's self-referential call for a wagon on himself by means of a vote over interaction was scummy. There is a part of me that thinks that scum would be looking for something to do outside of STW's wagon after it dissolved.

Mmm, yes. This is how I feel too.

I'm not taking Pint having to push his content back as scum indicative but I'm saying it would've been bad if posts along those lines continued, which I guess is pointless now.

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Post Post #1120  (isolation #5)  » Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:01 pm

:roll:

Join the hivemind, folks.

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Post Post #1121  (isolation #6)  » Sat Jan 12, 2019 3:03 pm

Okay, so here's an expansion of the thought I briefed at the beginning of my - Alchemist has shown themselves to be a competent player in that he appeared active during and after RVS and easily adjusted into a neutral mediator role between Shoshin the worst and Varsoon. He takes multiple opportunities early on to appear present in the thread that seems crafted to achieve nothing but a sense of activity and general noise, but unlike other offenders of this act, shows that they have no particular interest in trying to wrangle active thread control, staying separated from those willing to fight each other over it. Town has no reason to engage with this type of engagement which allows presence but allows for separation from the events taking place for 20 posts, especially when they decide to make , which is a fairly analytical post to sort somebody as town using logic, right?

Except after Alchemist's ISO #0 to #20, he starts to move away from the early dispute and the problem is that his first post () in doing so feels artificial because when directly questioned, he points to the post as a reason to follow him as being town. was disconnected from his original line of thought in that I question if he actually thought of it in the first place. In sum, they've taken multiple stances but have retracted those stances to the point where he's been able to keep his options wide open outside of Varsoon/STW/Mephisto which are easy lynches to strike out as scum, while offering the overall illusion of coinciding ideas of being engaged and sorting the game state out, while failing to achieve either in any way that I believe in.

I could be wrong, but I'm comfortable with the rationale for my vote.

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Post Post #1255  (isolation #7)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:16 am

VOTE: Shoshin the worst

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Post Post #1256  (isolation #8)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:17 am

In post 1252, Shoshin the worst wrote:Mewt or Nico are fine lynches right now as far as I can tell. They aren't the only people I scumread/don't townread but they're the slots I feel better about lynching.

NR flipping red would actually be fairly interesting given the way some slots have orbited around her today.
Mewt feels like a wolf.

We still have a couple of days right? No one be a flake please.

Die.

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Post Post #1257  (isolation #9)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:28 am

Lynch pool for being scummy: {Alchemist21, Almost Chara, Shoshin the worst}
Up for policy lynch: {Nancy}

Steamrolling with the biggest wagon that forms on any of these three + Nancy.

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Post Post #1259  (isolation #10)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:39 am

In post 1124, Taly wrote:mew do u have any reads aside from alch and thoughts on the current wagons aside from your sole vote? want to know ty

VC 1.11
u r a person 2 - obv town, thoughts/approach too difficult to emulate as scum
Shoshin the worst - scummy, trying to discredit any suspicion on them, trying to degrade Varsoon's read on them as much as possible when he's likely the N1 target
pinturicchio - 1168 reads as genuine town, but not 100% clearing - best attempt to read them is when they are fully capable of generating thoughts or when they get a replacement: probably not wagoning D1
NicoRobin - really really shitty deadline lynch, received how they responded to pressure, not AI imo and they aren't invested enough to counter the dumb meta arguments in thread that have been presented, asking for a no-info D2 walking into it with Varsoon/Nico dead and one ML down, also my scumreads are willing to push it so nope
Kokichi - would be surprised if this was the one time he flips scum and he opens on Almost Chara, not interested in lynch here and my scumreads are willing to push it so nope
Alchemist21 - fake as fuck progressions throughout the game + fencesitting "decision making" => hard SR but something to pursue at a later day phase for me, don't have the thread presence to push it through

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Post Post #1260  (isolation #11)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:39 am

In post 1125, u r a person 2 wrote:I don't see any disconnect between 204 and 297

There is. That's his first game-advancing content and completely misinterprets the second half of my question. His "I'm not redoubling on the mistakes I messed up" reads as AtE. I wouldn't buy it if I were you.

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Post Post #1261  (isolation #12)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:42 am

In post 1258, Michael Scott wrote:@Mewtaph: Alchemist rebutted your attack on him, you left it at that though - why?
Rationale for STW, Almost Chara?
Why a policy lynch on Nancy?

~Jimothy

It's how scum would respond from beginning to end. Me trying to push Alchemist through here requires thread presence I don't have - Nancy is acting as a huge obstacle to me pushing him at all and reflecting votes onto me in a very destructive manner.

Tl;dr, the rebuttal is how a scum responds and the basis of his approach to me isn't how town thinks. I'm not responding to a hard SR

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Post Post #1264  (isolation #13)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:47 am

On AC: They aren't a town read and I'm much more interested in exploring where Kokichi is going with this rather than discarding what he's saying completely and toss him into the "ML and ignore" pile. A50 has been notably "muted" in presence compared to what I expect from him in other games, so if someone has a chip on the Chara head then I'm willing to roll with a wagon on them.

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Post Post #1266  (isolation #14)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:50 am

In post 673, Krazy wrote:
In post 562, Varsoon wrote:
In post 1, Krazy wrote:
  • This is a confirmed single-ball game with no third party roles. The distribution of players will be 11 town vs 3 mafia
  • There will be a role similar to a town-aligned vigilante in this game
  • This game will feature roles that interact with the order of players in the player list, but the primary emphasis will still be on day play and not night actions.


@Mod: Can we take the point quoted here to indicate that there will be a TOWN-ALIGNED role that is similar to a Vigilante this game?


Yes.

In post 674, Shoshin the worst wrote:#stillalive
#stilltown

This isn't how town responds to reacting to something stopping a public dayvig shot on them "outside of their knowledge" by the way.

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Post Post #1268  (isolation #15)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:51 am

In post 1265, ProFlavor wrote:Hmm, I don’t know if I’m a fan of this Mewtaph wagon, but I’ll trust Profii.

What’s the case for ScumTaph?

~Leaf

Alchemist and Nancy have been pushing me, check there for reasoning.

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Post Post #1270  (isolation #16)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:53 am

In post 1267, Michael Scott wrote:@Mew
Your responding to the hard SR would be to convince the rest of us to sheep you on your SR. Disagree?

"It's how scum would respond" isn't a rebuttal.

Quote where Nancy's been deflecting votes, and detail how it's destructive?

~Jimothy

Okay, but the way he's approaching me isn't giving me a chance to respond. That's the entire point of when you drag someone's name in the dirt.

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Post Post #1274  (isolation #17)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:00 am

Spoiler:
In post 1081, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:
In post 998, Alchemist21 wrote:Taly’s vote seemed more like a pressure vote to get a response from me. Mewtaph’s reason for keeping his was sketchy.


Anyone ever claiming that a read/play/etc. is forced/fake/whatever without just cause, usually pings me.

In post 1074, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:
In post 991, Shoshin the worst wrote:Someone explain scum!Alchemist to me? This just feels like a forced wagon. I literally don't get it.

In post 992, Tibor and Lumia wrote:Wait what? There's an Alchemist wagon WHY? I was fine being complacent earlier but this changes things
-Gamma

In post 993, Shoshin the worst wrote:I think it's just Mewtaph and Taly atm but it does not make any sense to me, either.

In post 994, Varsoon wrote:I'm not incredibly happy with Mewtaph's pushing there.
Makes some degree of sense, but it is what it is. Very curious.

-V


Mewtaph’s play is very different here, than in SC1. Yeah, really really disliking his Alchemist vote. His weird question to Gamma about her alignment and follow up reactions, were weird as well.

In post 1087, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:
In post 1022, Taly wrote:
In post 1003, Krazy wrote:NicoRobin(3) ~ (57), (153), (81)
u r a person 2(2) ~ (43), (42)
Shoshin the worst(2) ~ (6), (143)
Alchemist21(2) ~ (5), (61)
pinturicchio(1) ~ (75)
Mewtaph(1) ~ (52)
Kokichi Oma(1) ~ (70)


This is an incredibly bad VC for town.

Michael/STW/UP2, tell me why Nico's a good lynch today.

URAP2 - Already prompted Pint/ProFlavor to talk about their vote here.

STW - vars, make town cohesive <3

Alchemist21 - Actually want Mew to explain his scumread on Alchemist, it's the only one they've had it seems? In like... 1000 posts?

Pint - A reason to townread T&L as I'm feeling less impressed each time I read Pint's ISO or latest posts.

Kokichi - AC, is this really a worthy lynch? Any active posters you don't townread?


Why? And Bono and Alchemist are really bad wagons.

In post 1088, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:
In post 1023, Taly wrote:anyone have meta on Mew?

like reliable ones? not a 1 game half-assed "this is how someone is as that alignment"?


ISO him in Starcraft 1. He seems to be very different here.

In post 1111, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:
In post 965, Mewtaph wrote:
In post 936, Taly wrote:
In post 63, Mewtaph wrote:VOTE: Alchemist21

Considering that this vote hasn't left, was it serious?

Yes. You can take that vote as serious in that I haven't seen any other wagon was compelling enough for me to shift my vote. I don't buy how he's approaching the game state as genuine.

In post 936, Taly wrote:
In post 765, Mewtaph wrote:Hey Gamma, can I ask you a question? Do you think that I should be town reading you this game?

What answer were you expecting here?

It was an open ended question, so I wasn't expecting any answer in particular.

In post 936, Taly wrote:
In post 772, Mewtaph wrote:I like u r a person 2 for town quite a bit actually, and I would be willing to do my first active sort to them, Taly or Varsoon.

I think NicoRobin is a decent point to poke with a stick before deadline rears too close, but is a bad wagon to get going near deadline in case they are really just apathetic!town.

I don't know why pinturrichio keeps pushing their content back repeatedly but it's not a great look.

I didn't like the initial voting on UP2 when I first skimmed through it, the reasons for a scumread there lacked substance (Prompting Michael Scott to explain why he thought UP2's posts were manufactured, that's the vote that most got my attention when it happened.)

I agree a bit on Nico. A lurker lynch won't get anywhere, and I don't trust the fact that everyone is like "where's the scum at"?

:/ I get my vote on Kokichi contradicts the above statement, but I'm working to change this.

Pint pushing content back... not a great look? Or scum-indicative?

I thought ignoring u r a person 2's self-referential call for a wagon on himself by means of a vote over interaction was scummy. There is a part of me that thinks that scum would be looking for something to do outside of STW's wagon after it dissolved.

Mmm, yes. This is how I feel too.

I'm not taking Pint having to push his content back as scum indicative but I'm saying it would've been bad if posts along those lines continued, which I guess is pointless now.


Hmmmm . . . never left moves his vote off of Alchemist who reads pretty damned townie to me but shades Pint. If Pint ever flips red here, this could be possible distancing.

In post 1112, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:
In post 1003, Krazy wrote:
Votecount 1.10
NicoRobin(3) ~ (57), (153), (81)
u r a person 2(2) ~ (43), (42)
Shoshin the worst(2) ~ (6), (143)
Alchemist21(2) ~ (5), (61)
pinturicchio(1) ~ (75)
Mewtaph(1) ~ (52)
Kokichi Oma(1) ~ (70)


Not Voting (2): (184), Kokichi Oma(8)

With 14 alive it takes 8 to lynch.

Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2019-01-16 22:05:31)


MOD REMINDERSKokichi Oma needs a prod. The last post was at: 1/9/2019 10:23:00 AM which was 2 days 4 hours 16 minutes 51 seconds ago.

NicoRobin is no longer being replaced.


VOTE: Mewtaph

In post 1114, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:Also, didn’t care for the weird Gamma question and justification for it. Pint could also be scum but eh.

So, rn, those two read the least towniest. Thinking Stw is wrong about Taly and RSC (PF), so maybe one of the lurkers but lurking is more town indicative for Kokichi than Nico but currently null on both and I agree with Taly about either being low info flips.

Did a quick search in Nancy's ISO, here are the posts that I think are completely bringing up vectors of attack that are almost entirely created to protect their TR, essentially they're constraining original thought process in the thread which isn't good especially when it's only D1. This is essentially a post dumping all of it in one area.

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Post Post #1276  (isolation #18)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:03 am

In post 1273, Almost Chara wrote:
In post 1264, Mewtaph wrote:On AC: They aren't a town read and I'm much more interested in exploring where Kokichi is going with this rather than discarding what he's saying completely and toss him into the "ML and ignore" pile. A50 has been notably "muted" in presence compared to what I expect from him in other games, so if someone has a chip on the Chara head then I'm willing to roll with a wagon on them.

oh, it's here.
Mewtaph, i replied to Kokichi's assertions earlier. (he isn't correct. we recently finished a game together where he replaced into a towny slot and through inactivity i ended up scumreading him.)
there's no way to "wait and sort" Kokichi like he says i do every single time when he's town (i don't) if he is barely playing to begin with.

Almost is busy. is that just a general comment, or are you saying it's AI?
~Chara

I think him opening with a vote on you and pushing on it based on something you did qualifies as playing the game.

As far as Almost being busy, sure, but I need more from him because he's the head I am most equipped to try to read.

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Post Post #1278  (isolation #19)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:07 am

In post 1277, Almost Chara wrote:one of those posts is just a vote. another of them is telling someone she thinks your ISOs in two games look different. a third is stating two TRs as bad wagons.
how are any of these sophisticated enough to be "constraining original thought process"? saying... words isn't shutting down conversation.
~Chara

It's hard to interact with somebody claiming to have a meta chip on you when they really don't. They need to knock it down a peg and SR me for in game reasons beyond "I didn't like his question to Gamma, that was the icing to the cake for Mew being scum aye". Or don't, that's their choice.

They are constraining play around their town reads. Sure, they can go and do that, but they don't need to form vectors of bullshit on other players in the process.

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Post Post #1281  (isolation #20)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:09 am

In post 1266, Mewtaph wrote:
In post 673, Krazy wrote:
In post 562, Varsoon wrote:
In post 1, Krazy wrote:
  • This is a confirmed single-ball game with no third party roles. The distribution of players will be 11 town vs 3 mafia
  • There will be a role similar to a town-aligned vigilante in this game
  • This game will feature roles that interact with the order of players in the player list, but the primary emphasis will still be on day play and not night actions.


@Mod: Can we take the point quoted here to indicate that there will be a TOWN-ALIGNED role that is similar to a Vigilante this game?


Yes.

In post 674, Shoshin the worst wrote:#stillalive
#stilltown

This isn't how town responds to reacting to something stopping a public dayvig shot on them "outside of their knowledge" by the way.

Ok Chara, do you agree with this?

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Post Post #1284  (isolation #21)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:14 am

I'm going to fade out of the thread in around 5 mins, so if you want to catch me on the way out now would be the time to do so.

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Post Post #1286  (isolation #22)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:17 am

In post 1285, Almost Chara wrote:
In post 1281, Mewtaph wrote:Ok Chara, do you agree with this?

not really, i can't think of another way for town to really respond. what would you expect? why would scum reply like this?

unless you're suggesting that this response indicates that STW did know why the shot failed and is lying about it?
~Chara

Potentially. It's bugging me.

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Post Post #1287  (isolation #23)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:19 am

It was only a mod response to Varsoon's query. The flip could've been processed. Perhaps all it would've taken was for Varsoon to state his kill in thread in flavour and he just had to correct it to go through.

The casual sass feels misplaced when before they were in "give reads I'm about to get flipped mode".

So why say "#stillalive #stilltown" when you 100% could be dead if you have nothing that indicates you are safe from vig shots?

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Post Post #1289  (isolation #24)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:22 am

Later.

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Post Post #1294  (isolation #25)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:12 am

I don't know what you're trying to achieve with your posts other than discredit me and insist that I'm scum, and yes, I don't town read you at all for your approach to Varsoon.

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Post Post #1298  (isolation #26)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:16 am

In post 1292, Shoshin the worst wrote:
In post 1260, Mewtaph wrote:
In post 1125, u r a person 2 wrote:I don't see any disconnect between 204 and 297

There is. That's his first game-advancing content and completely misinterprets the second half of my question. His "I'm not redoubling on the mistakes I messed up" reads as AtE. I wouldn't buy it if I were you.

Why do either of these things actually come from scum tho?
This is tinfoil at best. Straight up.

Okay, so I'm responding to a town read who's asking me to double down on a reason why I scumread someone, and now you insist that I have to double down again for you even though I've practically entirely explored that particular reason extensively at this point? You can think it's bullshit or whatever, but acting like my reasoning is non existent is bullshit.

Don't act like what I'm saying is completely whoooshing over you every time. This is a waste of time.

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Post Post #1300  (isolation #27)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:19 am

I don't want to sort to your slot at all because I haven't found a reason to town read you guys. So I really am just going to duck out of the thread - if you so wish you can mull it over with other players like you are already doing but I don't want a part of this not right now.

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Post Post #1307  (isolation #28)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 12:08 pm

This is not town. This is not how town approaches the game. Alchemist is not town.

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Post Post #1308  (isolation #29)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 12:20 pm

In post 1305, Alchemist21 wrote:
In post 1301, Shoshin the worst wrote:.....the fuck is anyone townreading this? I'm gonna speak to my partner but this is a joke.


Emphasis on joke. I was already laughing at the slot. His last post is just icing on the cake.

Okay, but this casual narrative you're trying to play out here doesn't fit the timeline. You were already laughing at the slot, except before you decided to go down the discredit and obtain from contributing elsewhere gameplan, your reaction to me holding onto a vote on you was anything but comedic. Explain to me how any content I make is "icing on the cake" now when the basis of your scumread is inherently based on riding the wave of consensus to try to ride me out the playerlist?

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Post Post #1312  (isolation #30)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:05 pm

Discrediting me as an excuse not to generate actual thought process on my slot. That's not an inconsistency, that's exactly what you're doing here.

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Post Post #1314  (isolation #31)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:08 pm

That implies you're sorting me, but you're clearly not. You're just discrediting and shading.

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Post Post #1315  (isolation #32)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:09 pm

In post 1313, Alchemist21 wrote:Ok but do you ever just blatantly make shit up about people? Have you ever said some shit like “I’m not gonna sort you because I’m already scumreading you.”?

None of these things have actually happened. Feel free to double check the narrative and pull up quotes because what you're saying is there definitely isn't.

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Post Post #1317  (isolation #33)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:12 pm

In post 965, Mewtaph wrote:I don't buy how he's approaching the game state as genuine.

This is the basis behind my scum read, clearly quoted and available to read so don't try to twist it into something else as if I'm trying to "shape inconsistencies" in some form.

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Post Post #1319  (isolation #34)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:28 pm

Fine, I'll play ball where you dismiss and misinterpret what I've down. The only thing that fits what you're saying remotely is to where I point out in that your response to my question was disconnected from your initial thought process and is hardly enough to say that I'm "blatantly making shit up about people".

Here's the post in question.

In post 297, Alchemist21 wrote:
In post 253, Mewtaph wrote:Not really following this. Why does scum-to-town not give an out at all? Why does the described scum-to-scum scenario have to involve Mephistophanes 39 giving an out to Shoshin the worst at all?


Scum to Town doesn’t because they want the pressure to stay on the Town slot.

And you’re with me on tbe scum to scum scenario, it doesn’t happen, at least not in the game thread.

It was. You tried to justify your first game advancing content via providing a town read on Mephisto. Scum-to-town makes absolutely no sense - they can approach the game state however they want given that there's almost no pressure directed their way. Scum-to-scum is similarly loose reasoning. The initial question was actually why it happens, which is part of the basis of your town read, and instead you decide to take some off-shoot path and suggest why "it doesn't happen, at least in the game thread" as if that was an answer to my question and I was totally following your reasoning the entire time.

The same thought process in you'd be well acquainted with as town given that you point it out as a reason to town read you when inquired upon.

By taking different ways to reach a conclusion to one town read, it feels more like you're trying to make your reads feel "complex" and hence townie but you can't even follow up on it.

So if we're talking about wheeling back and suggesting "inconsistencies" now, feels a lot more like you're trying to discredit my line of reasoning as much as you can, using your town cred to expend yourself of pressure. This isn't a townie thought process to be observing, it's a scummy one.

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Post Post #1320  (isolation #35)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:36 pm

In post 1316, Alchemist21 wrote:
In post 1312, Mewtaph wrote:Discrediting me as an excuse not to generate actual thought process on my slot. That's not an inconsistency, that's exactly what you're doing here.

I’ve given thoughts on your slot. All you can do is make up shit about my posts and say “it’s not Town.”

You mean posts like , , and more?

What I'm saying in "actual thought process" is the process of sorting: which I've seen none from you at all.

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Post Post #1325  (isolation #36)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:54 pm

In post 1322, u r a person 2 wrote:This is messing with my read because I'm not sure if this is some sort of gambit or if you sincerely misunderstand the logic. Make no mistake, Alchemist's logic is fine in these two posts.

Given, Mephisto gives an out to stw

Assert scum wouldn't give an out to town because it doesn't benefit scum to take the pressure off of town
Assert scum wouldn't give an out to scum because they would do it in scum chat

Conclude, mephisto must be town.

I'm not saying that I agree - scum might give an out to town under the right circumstances - but the thought process is consistent between the two posts and, imo, shows generally townie thought processes.

If this makes sense, please tell me how, if at all, it affects your read

I'm not pushing that his logic is inherently incorrect = he is scum. From a game context perspective, there's very little correlation between to to how it relates to Mephisto to Shoshin the worst. Their reasoning is kind of general on how scum might approach the situation (but not set in stone) and he uses that to create some complex line of thought where he ends at Mephisto being town. He hasn't really followed up on why he relates it to Mephisto to Shoshin the worst. Alchemist is saying in an interactions based way that Mephisto is town, but has no compelling reason to think in this way - it feels like trying to create a complex thought process when there's next to no point of going to this extent in justifying a town read that you could justify in several other ways than the one presented. Then he uses the same post as a strong reason to town read him when asked. That's why it feels insincere to me. It appears as a "complex" and hence townie thought process.

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Post Post #1328  (isolation #37)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:02 pm

Following on my previous post. More specifically, it hedges on Varsoon vs STW which is a much more significant point of interest and making a strong conclusion there, while throwing out some sense of analysis that ends in Mephisto being town which is only really relevant in diffusing hostility between STW and Mephisto which is much less relevant. It's misplaced focus.

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Post Post #1331  (isolation #38)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:19 pm

What don't you follow in ?

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Post Post #1337  (isolation #39)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:32 pm

I don't think I'm in any real position to ask anything of you atm, but you maintaining a reasonable presence whenever you can is much appreciated.

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Post Post #1340  (isolation #40)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:44 pm

Hey Vars.
Yeah that's sometimes a problem, I wouldn't worry about getting through my posts too much.

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Post Post #1342  (isolation #41)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:52 pm

Not sure atm, I think we know where everyone kind of stands except for a couple people who haven't checked in for a while. Looking there can probably help generate more content before the day ends.

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Post Post #1344  (isolation #42)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:56 pm

The deadline, probably. We need to choose a lynch, may as well try to make your stake in the game state.

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Post Post #1352  (isolation #43)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:09 pm

Tibor and Lumia - IDK, kind of decreased presence recently and I'm not sure how to interpret that. They've had a decent presence so I can probably form a read there with a little push with flip info later days

Taly - town, if scum then I'll just take the bullet

Michael Scott - Kind of scummy? I just might not like meta arguments but the vote on NicoRobin and "a scum flip would be helpful there anyway" kind of bothered me

pinturicchio - I think their approach is townie and they're town, feels a bit like a future ML setup and I'm just not very excited about it

Almost Chara - they can be a town lean for now. I think I jumped on them too hard for being scum without much reason

Kokichi Oma - his presence is kind of hit or miss, isn't it? I mean, I really don't know but it's not a lynch target given what I know about him

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Post Post #1354  (isolation #44)  » Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:13 pm

Np

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Post Post #1564  (isolation #45)  » Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:52 pm

Why do you even want a pintu wagon other than he's not present in the thread?

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Post Post #1565  (isolation #46)  » Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:54 pm

In post 1544, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:
In post 1534, Alchemist21 wrote:
In post 1531, Tibor and Lumia wrote:
In post 993, Shoshin the worst wrote:I think it's just Mewtaph and Taly atm but it does not make any sense to me, either.

Looks like it was just Mew tbh. I don't know what their shared meta is rn, Mew/Alchemist care to elucidate me?
-Gamma Emerald, reader of YA literature at age 19

I don’t think I’ve played with Mew before.

Ah, so he isn’t even basing his bad read on meta. His insistence in pushing you for reasons which make 0 sense to me, reads off to me.

I'm not playing in any games with you after this tbh, so you can stick "meta" up your ass.

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Post Post #1568  (isolation #47)  » Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:04 am

Seriously dude? Do you want to answer you or not?

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Post Post #1570  (isolation #48)  » Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:08 am

In post 1566, u r a person 2 wrote:
In post 1564, Mewtaph wrote:Why do you even want a pintu wagon other than he's not present in the thread?

I'm doing my best not to let his absence change my read

but my reads elsewhere have evolved, mainly on stw, proflavor and strengthening of a couple town reads

and pintu's scum equity has increased as a consequence

why do you seem hostile to the idea of moving the wagon off of you and onto someone else?

Can you point me to where the basis of your scumread on pintu lies if it isn't for activity?

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Post Post #1571  (isolation #49)  » Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:14 am

A post link would suffice...?

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Post Post #1573  (isolation #50)  » Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:22 am

Ok, I understand now.

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Post Post #1574  (isolation #51)  » Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:41 am

In post 1537, Tibor and Lumia wrote:
In post 1121, Mewtaph wrote:Okay, so here's an expansion of the thought I briefed at the beginning of my - Alchemist has shown themselves to be a competent player in that he appeared active during and after RVS and easily adjusted into a neutral mediator role between Shoshin the worst and Varsoon. He takes multiple opportunities early on to appear present in the thread that seems crafted to achieve nothing but a sense of activity and general noise, but unlike other offenders of this act, shows that they have no particular interest in trying to wrangle active thread control, staying separated from those willing to fight each other over it. Town has no reason to engage with this type of engagement which allows presence but allows for separation from the events taking place for 20 posts, especially when they decide to make , which is a fairly analytical post to sort somebody as town using logic, right?

Except after Alchemist's ISO #0 to #20, he starts to move away from the early dispute and the problem is that his first post () in doing so feels artificial because when directly questioned, he points to the post as a reason to follow him as being town. was disconnected from his original line of thought in that I question if he actually thought of it in the first place. In sum, they've taken multiple stances but have retracted those stances to the point where he's been able to keep his options wide open outside of Varsoon/STW/Mephisto which are easy lynches to strike out as scum, while offering the overall illusion of coinciding ideas of being engaged and sorting the game state out, while failing to achieve either in any way that I believe in.

I could be wrong, but I'm comfortable with the rationale for my vote.

Yo
I want a reason for why you asked me how I read myself with no anticipated answer. That's a question people with pre-existing notions on the subject ask.
-Gamma Emerald, who is probably done for a while as his focus is broken

I expected no based off of your commentary in , but also some sort of clarification on engagement or activity. I thought your response was in line with what I expected. In terms of "open-ended", I was open to however you wanted to interpret it, though saying yes would be kind of a tonal shift off of what you already said so would require some follow-up or reasoning for me to verify. IIRC, you weren't appearing as much as Brass at that point which is why I wanted to get an answer from you then.

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Post Post #1577  (isolation #52)  » Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:01 am

Yeah, I'm not super passionate about STW being scum enough to case them, but ultimately I'm comfortable with voting there considering momentum elsewhere seems dubious.

is enough that I am willing to reconsider how I feel about pintu on a reread. A scroll through tells me most of my read is based on which I shouldn't be using as basis for a read.

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Post Post #1579  (isolation #53)  » Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:17 am

Hmm, ok.
I'll also be around before deadline if this doesn't work.
VOTE: pinturicchio

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Post Post #1581  (isolation #54)  » Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:48 am

VOTE: Shoshin the worst
Eh, not feeling it.

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Post Post #1860  (isolation #55)  » Wed Jan 16, 2019 5:54 pm

Shredding my town read on Taly.

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Post Post #2367  (isolation #56)  » Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:15 am

Alright... that's a kill on obv town that doubly serves in framing me.

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Post Post #2428  (isolation #57)  » Tue Jan 22, 2019 3:36 am

Well, for positions to be relevant then some actions need to be dependent in some way based on position, right? Mephisto's ability isn't gated through positions though, and Varsoon's is implied not to be. So instead, it could be plausible that any scum player can make the night kill, but they'd have to be within X range. This would make Mephisto's flipped watcher role, for example, much more likely to find results, if say, a mafia member could only make the kill if they were within 2 positions away.

(This is mostly a prodge tbh.)

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Post Post #2531  (isolation #58)  » Wed Jan 23, 2019 11:43 pm

VOTE: Michael Scott

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Post Post #2602  (isolation #59)  » Fri Jan 25, 2019 1:16 am

VOTE: jjh927

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Post Post #2748  (isolation #60)  » Tue Jan 29, 2019 1:46 pm

In post 2742, Michael Scott wrote:I'd suggest:

jjh927
Mewtaph
ProFlavor
Pinturicchio
Almost Chara
Michael Scott
T&L
Varsoon

Where is Alchemist?

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Post Post #2752  (isolation #61)  » Tue Jan 29, 2019 1:51 pm

For the record, I probably would've hard defended Creature if Taly was still in that slot. Optically I was willing to see them as town - the naked votes in their timing are kind of self explanatory in that sense.

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Post Post #2754  (isolation #62)  » Tue Jan 29, 2019 1:53 pm

Understand that read progression got my head nearly cut off so was pretty tentative to make any moves that would give scum any reason to throw shade on my slot.

The way that wagon formed wasn't good.

I can have thoughts out of thread, just because I only made a few posts on D2 doesn't mean that I ceased having thoughts during that time.

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Post Post #2756  (isolation #63)  » Tue Jan 29, 2019 1:59 pm

In post 2701, Tibor and Lumia wrote:
In post 2682, jjh927 wrote:VOTE: Tibor

If I'm casing this it happens tomorrow

By the way, counter to this bad vote.

I, brassherald, am not the one that repped out, despite having only completed one scum game in my life. I hate rolling scum and everyone should know this by this point. If either of us left the game as scum, it would have been me, and in fact, it was me in the previous game we played on this hydra where we rolled scum.

So, like, I feel like at this point, having remained in the game and not just decided to leave, I should be Innocent Child level because I am still here.

I kind of believe you but discussion around self meta is almost entirely pointless, so let's move away from defenses like this please.

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Post Post #2758  (isolation #64)  » Tue Jan 29, 2019 2:09 pm

Hm, ok. Gotta go to sleep though, so I'm finishing things up here.

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Post Post #2805  (isolation #65)  » Wed Jan 30, 2019 1:03 am

Zerg viper - flying, move anywhere, drags
Move as close to position 13 as possible, drag Alchemist below
Move as close to position 11 as possible, drag Alchemist below

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Post Post #2818  (isolation #66)  » Thu Jan 31, 2019 2:12 am

Yes, that is my role.

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Post Post #2947  (isolation #67)  » Fri Feb 01, 2019 5:48 am

In post 2630, ProFlavor wrote:I am happy to vote Creature but I’ll just wait for FL to see this and he can make the call

~Woof

In post 2633, ProFlavor wrote:VOTE: creature

~woof

Did you discuss this vote with FL?

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Post Post #2955  (isolation #68)  » Sat Feb 02, 2019 7:38 am

@Michael Scott: jjh927 just isn't putting effort into this game and it's as clear as day. I agree that they should be roped today, but the thing is they don't seem to be particularly concerned about the direction this day is headed, they're just letting the deadline tick down. A very strong sign that there's not just one, but two deep scum in the team. I think one of the most concerning things is their lack of effort that is extremely visible - I am starting more and more to think that NicoRobin didn't have time for this game and that was the reason they opted to drop the game. Anyway, I know this contradicts with your proposed solve, but I think it's worth consideration.

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Post Post #2956  (isolation #69)  » Sat Feb 02, 2019 7:42 am

@pinturicchio: Can you elaborate on your stance between myself, ProFlavor and Alchemist21? I can tell you've progressed from where you felt comfortable with on D2 and I want to know what this was weighted by.

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Post Post #2957  (isolation #70)  » Sat Feb 02, 2019 7:46 am

In post 2953, Almost Chara wrote:i would actually prefer a mewtaph lynch over jjh, but both are fine.
~Chara

Why is this? Why am I now your highest preference lynch for today?

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Post Post #2958  (isolation #71)  » Sat Feb 02, 2019 7:54 am

In post 2955, Mewtaph wrote:@Michael Scott: jjh927 just isn't putting effort into this game and it's as clear as day. I agree that they should be roped today, but the thing is they don't seem to be particularly concerned about the direction this day is headed, they're just letting the deadline tick down. A very strong sign that there's not just one, but two deep scum in the team. I think one of the most concerning things is their lack of effort that is extremely visible - I am starting more and more to think that NicoRobin didn't have time for this game and that was the reason they opted to drop the game. Anyway, I know this contradicts with your proposed solve, but I think it's worth consideration.

Here's the counter argument to this, in particular favour of jjh927 being potentially town. Why is this scenario still relevant? Scum will obviously be undisturbed by a jjh927 lynch if they are a ML, but they are quite definitively unconcerned that the lynch could swing towards their mafia partner. Optically, I think both scenarios are worth thinking about. Your current solve and possible combinations I have considered in my own time and have felt that they felt too easy. Take it or leave it.

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Post Post #2960  (isolation #72)  » Sat Feb 02, 2019 8:22 am

Okay, is there anything you wanted my directed thoughts on in or just general thoughts on what I thought about it?

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Post Post #2962  (isolation #73)  » Sat Feb 02, 2019 9:05 am

Was typing it up but don't think I'm in the right mind for it at the moment. I kind of wish you didn't p-edit me when I was just about to finish making a larger post, but ok. I will answer what you want from me in in around an hour or two.

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Post Post #2963  (isolation #74)  » Sat Feb 02, 2019 9:47 am

Yeah, nvm probably not going to do it sadly. You popping in when you did killed my vibe of what I was going to say but whatever. Doesn't help that you have me in your solve which keeps biasing my response. Feel like I'm playing to appease and not to convince, cbf doing that.

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Post Post #2965  (isolation #75)  » Sat Feb 02, 2019 10:04 am

That is fine, I will probably still come back to this later.

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Post Post #2971  (isolation #76)  » Sat Feb 02, 2019 10:21 pm

You're probably town.

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Post Post #2972  (isolation #77)  » Sun Feb 03, 2019 4:38 am

Hmm so, if I were to drag someone next to Varsoon, who would you guys want it to be and why? I know my own answer but I still want to hear what other people think.

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Post Post #2975  (isolation #78)  » Sun Feb 03, 2019 5:13 am

Ok, seems reasonable.

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Post Post #3002  (isolation #79)  » Mon Feb 04, 2019 10:47 am

In post 2163, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:
In post 2146, Tibor and Lumia wrote:
In post 1996, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:
In post 1943, pinturicchio wrote:I'm at page 53. Mew's reaction to his wagon was great. How he approached Nancy is exactly how I'm feeling right now: she just defends her townreads by attacking whoever is scumreading them. Flavor's reaction to Mew's wagon is townie as hell too, but I already said this. I don't see any scum intention on how Pro unvoted unless both Mew and Flavor are scum ---> Mew is apparently town because of his reaction ---> both are town, which is much more likely than both being scum (thinking that I caught two out of three scum instead of two out of ten towns... My tinfoil hat is not ready for that)


No it wasn’t. Mew’s reaction was horrible and very unlike town!Mew.

Honestly the way Pintu speaks there just seems generally forced. Who calls a reaction great like that?
-Gamma, in the home stretch


Yeah, maybe you’re right. I also intensely dislike how he keeps discrediting everything I’m saying and falsely accusing me of “manipulation” and confibiasing Eraserhead. His hard defending of Mew, also makes 0 sense to me. It reeks of whiteknighting.

pinturicchio could be scum, actually. Was reading through D1 stuff and ISOs since this day and D2 are clearly hot garbage for generating any info.

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Post Post #3003  (isolation #80)  » Mon Feb 04, 2019 10:50 am

In post 3001, Alchemist21 wrote:
In post 2992, Almost Chara wrote:
In post 2976, Alchemist21 wrote:Prod received.

hi Alch, remind me where you're at right now? game is super inactive and if MS is power scum we're losing this one. if not i think we're still okay.
jjh feels like an inevitable lynch and that's what worries me about him being town. i know that scum could just not be putting their full effort in, of course, but when it's minimum effort in a gamestate like this to be active, it's a great time for the scum to make sure things are going their way.
it's also very likely we'll die tonight if scum doesn't shoot Varsoon so i'd to talk while i'm still here.
~Chara


My strongest scumread is still Mewtaph. ProFlavor and MS seem like likely partners but I’m not sure on them. If Mew’s a goon ProFlavor is most likely Town, and if JJ flips scum MS is more likely Town.

What really sticks out to me though is how MS started trying to play around Varsoon’s vig shot as soon as Varsoon said it had a limited range. It wouldn’t really surprise me if Mew/MS are both scum and ProFlavor is Town who’s in an awkward situation.

I'm curious, what do you want my night action to be? Drag/no drag - move where, drag where?

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Post Post #3004  (isolation #81)  » Mon Feb 04, 2019 10:58 am

The biggest indicator that I'm wrong is that the people that died townread Alchemist. So I'm pretty sure my general perspective on the game state is wrong lol.

I don't feel that great about a jjh927 lynch because there's just no resistance. From day 1 this slot has been set up as a potential ML.

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Post Post #3008  (isolation #82)  » Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:24 am

In post 3006, Michael Scott wrote:
In post 3001, Alchemist21 wrote:If Mew’s a goon ProFlavor is most likely Town,

Evidence for this? ProFlavor mostly maintained Mewtaph at town, or "Lynch if FL wants to", and Mewtaph never once interacted with or referenced ProFlavor.

Um, not discarding what you're saying completely but I just checked my ISO and I quoted ProFlavor in my second post.

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Post Post #3009  (isolation #83)  » Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:25 am

In post 3007, Michael Scott wrote:
In post 3002, Mewtaph wrote:pinturicchio could be scum, actually. Was reading through D1 stuff and ISOs since this day and D2 are clearly hot garbage for generating any info.

Mew, have a skim of Pintu's previous towngames - see if you'd make the same conclusion reading his ISOs there.

Hmm ok.

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Post Post #3011  (isolation #84)  » Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:34 am

In post 3010, Michael Scott wrote:
In post 3004, Mewtaph wrote:The biggest indicator that I'm wrong is that the people that died townread Alchemist.

They were prolly killed for scumreads. I maintain that one of you, Alch must very likely be scum, because otherwise ALL claimed air units are town.

This means one scum is fakeclaiming a ground role, or that one of you guys is scum.

Fair enough.

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Post Post #3012  (isolation #85)  » Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:38 am

In post 3007, Michael Scott wrote:
In post 3002, Mewtaph wrote:pinturicchio could be scum, actually. Was reading through D1 stuff and ISOs since this day and D2 are clearly hot garbage for generating any info.

Mew, have a skim of Pintu's previous towngames - see if you'd make the same conclusion reading his ISOs there.

Yeah, pintu is town.

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Post Post #3016  (isolation #86)  » Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:48 am

In post 3013, Michael Scott wrote:So what's your final solve?

{Almost Chara, Alchemist21, ProFlavor, jjh927}
Should be three of these.

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Post Post #3029  (isolation #87)  » Mon Feb 04, 2019 12:12 pm

In post 3027, Almost Chara wrote:i'm pretty sure jjh and MS are opposite alignments, so i don't hate lynching jjh regardless. that said i don't enjoy voting players i feel will flip town unless it's to avoid a nl.
~Chara

Would you feel the same way if it was Kokichi instead of jjh927?

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Post Post #3033  (isolation #88)  » Mon Feb 04, 2019 12:17 pm

In post 3031, Almost Chara wrote:
In post 3029, Mewtaph wrote:
In post 3027, Almost Chara wrote:i'm pretty sure jjh and MS are opposite alignments, so i don't hate lynching jjh regardless. that said i don't enjoy voting players i feel will flip town unless it's to avoid a nl.
~Chara

Would you feel the same way if it was Kokichi instead of jjh927?

why are you asking this? Kokichi is flipped, it's impossible to think of a hypothetical involving his alignment now. if you have some sort of issue with how i treated Kokichi, present that.

and i thought Kokichi was scum when i said he should be shot. if you mean a consensus scumread, it did not feel like a full consensus like jjh does now.
~Chara

Ok.

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Post Post #3040  (isolation #89)  » Mon Feb 04, 2019 12:30 pm

In post 3037, Michael Scott wrote:it's the specific argument ("his content doesn't generate info")

That's not the argument I was making against pinturicchio though. I'm considering the quote and found it interesting while I was looking at people's ISOs.

I'm saying as it stands, I think Day 1 has collectively held a lot more information than Day 2 and Day 3 up to that point. That's just how I feel.

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Post Post #3092  (isolation #90)  » Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:54 am

@Michael Scott: Just jjh's flip information.
At night your faction may decide to kill someone, but you must determine who will carry out the kill. If you are the one to perform the kill, the target will be assaulted by marine fire.

I don't think that dragging ProFlavor away from Varsoon would've forced the mafia team to take any suboptimal kills or prevent any night kill options after that was revealed. So the only thing I could really do at that point was try to keep my scumreads isolated from the rest of the playerlist below Almost Chara while they were still alive at day end (it doesn't matter now because they died).

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Post Post #3100  (isolation #91)  » Fri Feb 08, 2019 5:39 am

Do I need to detail why at this point? ProFlavor's my preferred lynch there by a lot.

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Post Post #3102  (isolation #92)  » Fri Feb 08, 2019 5:44 am

There are several things that point against a me-Alchemist scum team, things that point against a me-ProFlavor scum team and things that point towards Alchemist being scum.

Most of it my confidence here is tied to dead people that were actively engaging in the game the first day and at times mind melded with me at the time on D1 - Shoshin the worst and Taly.

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Post Post #3104  (isolation #93)  » Fri Feb 08, 2019 5:45 am

In post 3101, Michael Scott wrote:Yes, I'd prefer you detail why. Any reasons in addition to mine on why Pintu is town?

I think it's unlikely that two scum would be that inactive on D1.

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Post Post #3107  (isolation #94)  » Fri Feb 08, 2019 5:47 am

In post 3103, Firebringer wrote:Mewtaph u seem really relaxed about the whole notion ur being highly suspected here. It is kind of eery.
What is going through ur head right now?

ProFlavor just moved up away from Varsoon's shoot range when they have no real reason to if they are a VT.

Alchemist21 kind of just desperately shaded the BP claims but hey, you gotta create mislynches somehow.

I mean... a lot of people are kind of obv town but I guess yes if I am wrong I will see that very quickly with the proposed lynches and will adapt accordingly.

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Post Post #3110  (isolation #95)  » Fri Feb 08, 2019 5:49 am

In post 3106, Michael Scott wrote:The confusing part right now is that Mewtaph wants a ProFlavor lynch - which is really weird for a {Mew, ProFlavor} scumteam; however, if {ProFlavor, Alch} is the scumteam then why would Alch place ProFlavor at L-1 in D2? I need to check again but I remember something of that sort happened.

ProFlavor pushed the Taly/Creature slot to L-1 when Taly/Creature and NicoRobin/jjh927 slots were in wagon contention. This is another point against ProFlavor.

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Post Post #3113  (isolation #96)  » Fri Feb 08, 2019 5:52 am

In post 3112, Firebringer wrote:
In post 3095, Firebringer wrote:Varsoon/Michael Scott/Me/Pintu all are town imo.

Mew are all these lock town for u right now?

Yes, but I mean if we hit lylo and I'm still alive I will consider the possibility that I am pocketed. I do not think it is very likely though.

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Post Post #3119  (isolation #97)  » Fri Feb 08, 2019 6:12 am

I don't even really remember that ProFlavor was a lynch candidate at all on D1. It was early enough in the day where scum is probably glad to be wagoned because the attention will likely shift off of them by the end of the day. It lasted for a couple pages STW-ProFlavor until Varsoon started rallying votes against STW.

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Post Post #3125  (isolation #98)  » Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:53 am

I do not think that ProFlavor was in danger of being lynched there and while yes being pushed to L-1 is telling, it was pushed to that point because of a naked Kokichi vote essentially (which also doesn't particularly make anyone want to vote the wagon, just turned off by it). Also placing someone at L-2 and knowing whether the lynch is favoured against STW or ProFlavor is within the realms of something the mafia can predict the result of. I do not think there was more pressure on ProFlavor over STW in terms of lynch viability being pushed through to its finish.

With posts like it was telegraphed very early on that Varsoon would push on STW because his vig failed, and it was pretty clear that was what he wanted to be pushed that day. This is concrete reasoning. A wagon on ProFlavor is not that concrete if you know that someone is actively pushing against it and appears to have solid reason for doing so. A post before Alchemist voted ProFlavor, he questioned how the wagon came into fruition.

--

Spoiler: Things against a me-ProFlavor scum team but why ProFlavor is still scum - STW quotes
In post 1295, Shoshin the worst wrote:@ProFlavor talk me through what the rationale of seeing those Mewtaph posts and winding up at "yeah wow Mewtaph is town, I'm going to vote STW instead"
That was the strangest reaction I've seen ITT so far. His reasoning isn't even slightly towny.

In post 1477, Shoshin the worst wrote:
In post 1392, ProFlavor wrote:The fact that Varsoon, Mewtaph, and I are the three on Shoshin right now shows me that this is more than likely a scum slot.

Varsoon is hard town here. I’ve recently gotten to witness directly both townVarsoon and scumVarsoon, and really I’ve known Varsoon for like 4 and a half years now, so I’m pretty happy with my read there.

Mewtaph is town for the wagon composition. Mustang and Nancy pushing onto a townie the way they did makes total sense, and then people, and scumShoshin, decide to jump on to Mewtaph.

This also semi incriminates Jjh slot, but I’ll let them catchup first.

I realize my slot will probably be tried to use as a counterwagon option after pushing Shoshone like this, so unless you wanna try to 1v1 me and out explain the damn awful play it would have been to let Mewtaph live in this situation as scum...well, go for it. I could have just kept not playing the game and allowing Profii to play in that situation. Mewtaph likely would have been killed.

So there, Mewtaph and I would have to be scum together AND you’d have to think I would Super obviously protect them in this position AND I would hard town read Varsoon, a solid player who I know would very much end up tunneling me if he thinks I’m scum.

Long story short, Only town are on the Shoshin wagon right now. Bet.


Hrrrrrkkkkkkkkk
This is still confbiased or agenda driven thinking....

I don't see how you just loljump to the conclusion that because you townread the entire wagon it must be on scum. that's a nonsensical conclusion and is actually heavily inconsistent with scumplay (you can't think both of our scumbuddies would just be hanging back while we go down surely. this is an optimal softbus/distance gamestate and it's radiant). an all town wagon us here is town indicative via vca and you're not convincing me on anything else.

I also don't townread the full wagon and don't understand why you do.

But your bizarre conclusions are more of a problem.

In post 1873, Shoshin the worst wrote:
In post 1871, ProFlavor wrote:
In post 1865, Shoshin the worst wrote:@urap2 notice anything uncomfortable about ProFlavor's reads?

Climb down off that fence and say you scum read me
Ha ha

I did pretty candidly lmao
Get your own sly shut-down. ;)

In post 1598, Shoshin the worst wrote:
In post 1550, Krazy wrote:Votecount 1.14
Shoshin the worst(4) ~ (170), (45), (128), (17)
Mewtaph(3) ~ (71), (293), (93)


Going for tiered empathy on our voters it's basically
Mewtaph >>> Varsoon > ProFlavor > Kokichi

It kinda checks out for Mewtaph to be like AW NOT THIS SHIT AGAIN as town and vote us. I can't decide if the freezing in real-time thing is more likely to come from scum or town if I'm completely honest. From one perspective it does suck to be bombed with questions and ridicule as scum who feels like you're doing well so reacting with like "ew you suck" because I'm not townreading him. but on the flip side this COULD be a genuine considered reaction given last time I reached out to him I was going for a last minute pocket before lolhammering him.

Maybe scum!Mewtaph thinks harder about the optics of not talking to us at all in real-time, putting us down then disappearing? I don't really know, anyone wanna check his scum meta or...?

Varsoon's push on us is offensively outside the realm of common sense and I've spoken about it a lot but I think the fact I'm genuinely annoyed by it says something

Pro's vote on us is frankly pockety and I've documented my wall of issues with the nonsense they're spewing.

Kokichi's play vs. {AC, us} is transparent self defence and...isn't towny....

Above are appropriate indicators that I resonated with STW.

Their directed attention away from me towards ProFlavor I feel was particularly telling that they were shifting away from the idea that I was necessarily scum as the day progressed and that ProFlavor was the one that came out looking worse out of the exchange.

Shoshin the worst wrote:@ProFlavor talk me through what the rationale of seeing those Mewtaph posts and winding up at "yeah wow Mewtaph is town, I'm going to vote STW instead"
That was the strangest reaction I've seen ITT so far.

I can see how players can reach a town read on me early on, that's not necessarily the issue. I think a big issue with ProFlavor being town was how quickly and confidently ProFlavor townread me in a way that felt pretty much out of left field, an undeveloped send for aid. The way ProFlavor went about it made it very clear they wanted to tie themselves to me. It just didn't work particularly well for me in terms of me buying into ProFlavor being town with the whole VCA justification of "wagon is town". It felt like flashbomb reasoning that don't really explain the development of his defense with answers to STW like "Of course his answers will be awkward, he's being wagoned" and "our VCA is STW's wagon is all town, so Mew is town, if you disagree then you need to explain to us why". There are some other issues with ProFlavor's slot like the EOD D1 read list with the whole "if Flavor wants" thing. STW also points out how it is radiant for soft bus/distance game state and I agree because all scum needed to do was wait for time to tick and they would get a lynch no matter what.

In post 1477, Shoshin the worst wrote:I don't see how you just loljump to the conclusion that because you townread the entire wagon it must be on scum. that's a nonsensical conclusion and is actually heavily inconsistent with scumplay (you can't think both of our scumbuddies would just be hanging back while we go down surely. this is an optimal softbus/distance gamestate and it's radiant). an all town wagon us here is town indicative via vca and you're not convincing me on anything else.

I agree strongly with the bolded and posts like afterwards don't really address what STW is saying in any meaningful way that could result in change. This is when they asked openly for people to challenge them on their reasoning, which STW did, so them discrediting/ignoring rather than engaging with STW was pretty scummy.

VOTE: ProFlavor

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Post Post #3141  (isolation #99)  » Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:03 am

Can we just lynch ProFlavor now.

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Post Post #3162  (isolation #100)  » Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:22 am

jjh927 claimed a building. A drone is not a building. A hatchery is a building. Zerg + Hatchery = Zerg Hatchery. Done.

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Post Post #3199  (isolation #101)  » Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:40 am

You ruined it.

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Post Post #3203  (isolation #102)  » Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:43 am

LOL.

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Post Post #3241  (isolation #103)  » Fri Feb 08, 2019 11:35 am

You were between MS and Varsoon N2. If you are the role you claim you are, then why didn't you move on that night?

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Post Post #3245  (isolation #104)  » Fri Feb 08, 2019 11:36 am

Zzz, when is the mod coming. 100% scum flip.

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Post Post #3265  (isolation #105)  » Sun Feb 10, 2019 1:49 pm

:neutral: How concerned are you really if you're willing to make a vote on day start?

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Post Post #3267  (isolation #106)  » Sun Feb 10, 2019 2:00 pm

Why do you think Firebringer was killed?

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Post Post #3270  (isolation #107)  » Sun Feb 10, 2019 2:27 pm

I doubt that's all there is to it.

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Post Post #3271  (isolation #108)  » Sun Feb 10, 2019 2:30 pm

I suppose there's no real way of knowing at this time. So first I'll just wait for everyone to pop in.

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Post Post #3370  (isolation #109)  » Mon Feb 11, 2019 12:55 am

In post 3337, Michael Scott wrote:
In post 3267, Mewtaph wrote:Why do you think Firebringer was killed?

In post 3268, Michael Scott wrote:1. Strong scumread on Alch; if Alch is scum this is an obvious NK
2. Varsoon's more paranoid about me

What do you make of it?

In post 3269, Michael Scott wrote:Oh also of course, near-universal townread.

In post 3270, Mewtaph wrote:I doubt that's all there is to it.

In post 3271, Mewtaph wrote:I suppose there's no real way of knowing at this time. So first I'll just wait for everyone to pop in.


Lol, [...] reminded me of this - lol, this does look fishy.

I didn't say it for you not to take note of it. :wink:

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Post Post #3377  (isolation #110)  » Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:22 am

You're drawing the lines thick and clear.

VOTE: Michael Scott

This is how scum plays lylo. Low interaction. Pushing an agenda. Pushing easy options.

You need to go.

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Post Post #3380  (isolation #111)  » Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:37 am

Give it 48 hours.

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Post Post #3382  (isolation #112)  » Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:43 am

Yeah, I voted for you. You're play comes from scum. I'm going to test a theory. You seem to be disturbed by this development, as expected.

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Post Post #3383  (isolation #113)  » Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:43 am

In post 3382, Mewtaph wrote:Yeah, I voted for you. You're play comes from scum. I'm going to test a theory. You seem to be disturbed by this development, as expected.

EBWOP
Your*

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Post Post #3384  (isolation #114)  » Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:45 am

Super quick to posture towards me being "confirmed" scum. If pinturicchio/Alchemist21 is the scum team then we're going to find out because I will be keeping my vote on you for a long duration of this day phase. It's not that team at this point though.

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Post Post #3385  (isolation #115)  » Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:46 am

So show me, do you want to make your partner between pinturicchio and Alchemist21 just a little bit more obvious for me?

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Post Post #3388  (isolation #116)  » Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:50 am

That's convenient of you to say after you "casually" shit out a transcript of the entire 100+ pages of the game with post links that you definitely had no plans on sharing in the thread at all.

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Post Post #3389  (isolation #117)  » Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:51 am

I think you were well aware of the fact that I could have turned on you and that's why you shifted your attention away from me/Alch towards hammering on the simplest narrative to push today. But you've set it up, so it's unsurprising your confident that your plan will succeed in the end.

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Post Post #3390  (isolation #118)  » Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:55 am

In post 3386, Michael Scott wrote:"Low interaction" and "pushing an agenda" is exactly what *you* have been doing this LyLo, so you did present a convincing scumcase... for yourself.

It would make your life a lot easier if you could push this narrative, but you can't because you're the one pushing the agenda. You have to rely on transcripting the entire game to achieve what you want to reach with extreme conviction. When you shovel bullshit enough times, eventually it becomes true. That was your plan, wasn't it?

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Post Post #3394  (isolation #119)  » Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:02 am

You're failing to realise that two correct lynches on scum need to pass for town to win the game. This is just a straight fact that you've chosen to omit when constructing your perfect lylo narrative. There are two explanations for why you're playing this way as scum: you're hardbussing pinturicchio as scum/scum in which case the game is lost if I wait to act. Or the scenario is MS/Alchemist21 and I need to cover my backside before you win the game by default by outputting enough noise thread which you have shown you are more than capable of emitting extremely conclusion-focused "analysis" of previous pages.

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Post Post #3395  (isolation #120)  » Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:03 am

The thing is, you can't realise this because you're scum and need to restrict play in this way to achieve your scum victory condition. Oh well.

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Post Post #3397  (isolation #121)  » Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:12 am

The theory is quite simple, the theory is simply that you are scum. Seems like a pretty sound theory to test with a vote in lylo, no? That's kind of what a vote in lylo is supposed to do. Soon it will be mechanically confirmed that you or I are scum due to lack of a quickhammer or the game will end. It's very simple. You making it out to be a mechanical "mistake" is what you need to push here so that when it does become clear that is the case, your plan is not completely ruined (ie. the lynch turns right back onto you).

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Post Post #3399  (isolation #122)  » Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:19 am

The only "confirmed" thing from my point of view is that there are three possible scum teams from my point of view. My vote should eliminate one of them (pinturicchio-Alchemist21) or end the game immediately if I am wrong.

Pint-Mew is the simplest narrative you could possibly create, and safely push on with ease.

As long as one of those two is town, it doesn't matter what happens as long as you fit the shoe on and get one town member securely locked into your palm with this narrative you're gleefully leaning into in lylo. The rest is irrelevant.

Nothing is "proven" yet until every possible scum team has been eliminated via absence of quickhammer after they've had plenty of time to prey on the opportunity.

I could try to lean into game-flavour solves but flavour game solves should never be and aren't 100% absolutes. Simple.

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Post Post #3400  (isolation #123)  » Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:23 am

In post 3392, Michael Scott wrote:I mean of course we thought you might turn on us - I figure optimal scumplay for you in this situation would've been to bus Pintu (since he's losing the 1v1 anyway) and play upon my paranoia of Alchemist being scum; you turning on us in this fashion I didn't expect but makes life easier.

This "paranoia" you speak of, I call bullshit on. But I voted you already so you already know that.

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Post Post #3405  (isolation #124)  » Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:56 am

I would suggest there is enough reason to unvote for now and wait for it to become clear that pinturicchio-Alchemist21 is not a team and there is 1+ scum in {Me, Michael Scott}. Then vote between me and Michael Scott.

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Post Post #3407  (isolation #125)  » Mon Feb 11, 2019 12:23 pm

I mean, he went offline so he pretty much gave up at this point.

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Post Post #3411  (isolation #126)  » Mon Feb 11, 2019 12:36 pm

I'd rather you just vote me then if you're not willing to consider lines between MS/Alchemist at all. But whatever.

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Post Post #3412  (isolation #127)  » Mon Feb 11, 2019 12:45 pm

In post 3270, Mewtaph wrote:I doubt that's all there is to it.

In post 3271, Mewtaph wrote:I suppose there's no real way of knowing at this time. So first I'll just wait for everyone to pop in.

I shouldn't have said this to MS. I needed to reach the same conclusion I did much earlier or yesterday while Firebringer was still alive. Now it doesn't really matter.

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Post Post #3414  (isolation #128)  » Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:30 pm

Yeah...

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Post Post #3429  (isolation #129)  » Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:06 pm

I wonder how long it'll take for the game to end.

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Post Post #3433  (isolation #130)  » Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:12 pm

No.

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Post Post #3443  (isolation #131)  » Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:43 pm

Ughhhh

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Post Post #3457  (isolation #132)  » Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:50 pm

In post 3450, Michael Scott wrote:Mew disregarding everything and calling us scum for what I think were very bad reasons, made me lock him as scum. If he did correctly townread us, we *might* have considered Alch more seriously - I was just beginning to case him in my discord channel.

Lol you do realise I reached the same conclusion you did at daystart right? Then you posted two walls that were pretty much entirely based on calling me scum. If you're going to alienate someone going into lylo saying there's 99.9999% chance in big font and bold then you need to own it post game

Mewtaph
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Post Post #3466  (isolation #133)  » Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:58 pm

I should have unvoted but neither of you reached out until a long while later. So it kind of seemed to me that I would've lost going that path.

Mewtaph
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Post Post #3504  (isolation #134)  » Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:38 pm

I think the game was kind of devoid of life at several stages. Which made mulling over certain possibilities worse (I was considering AC as scum) :neutral:

Like walking into the previous night and the NK and it's just like I'm surprised that me+MS would have the same solve but mine easier if I take MS as town. I got paranoid :| Firebringer being killed over conf town going into lylo made me concerned that scum were playing upon pre-made notions like me v Alchemist or me and pint being associated since way before ProFlavor got lynched.

Mewtaph
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Post Post #3512  (isolation #135)  » Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:43 pm

And while I could have not voted at all, it sounds like the 3 way would've been a loss. Like it's not an OMGUS, maybe I would've considered unvoting if any of you were nicer but it seemed like none of you wanted to bother with that at all. There's a theoretical outcome where it's a win but that really felt like I would've been prolonging what would have happened anyway especially after I actually did the vote and got the responseI did.

Mewtaph
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Post Post #3525  (isolation #136)  » Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:49 pm

In post 3507, Michael Scott wrote:Many slots were dead, in a sense. A lot of town slots were kinda "out" of the game, too. Tbh Mew, what made you lurk D2?

I explained it in thread, like seriously. I think there was a point where Creature was kind of too apathetic that it became townie, a point where he was like "I want to use this game to find scum" or something like that. But then he put me in his scum group so I didn't care enough to actively save him seeing that, just a very meh day.

Also more important to why AC and everyone that scum read me still or had their reservations. I didn't think I would survive if I pushed something and I was wrong then it would be held against me. I feel like I wouldn't have survived honestly the dead thread scum team predictions kind of say enough on that. Then there were the night action movements, just showed off I was a flying unit which would make sense to be in the minority compared to ground units... and we all saw where that speculation went.

Mewtaph
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Post Post #3566  (isolation #137)  » Wed Feb 13, 2019 6:37 am

Gg.


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