Prey Mafia - Game Over

[Chara]

VOTE: Fish
hello everyone! i have great news. i'm ascetic and hated.

[Chara]

VOTE: Fish
hello everyone! i have great news. i'm ascetic and hated.

Are you talking about this game or irl?

Dayvig: Fish

[Chara]

VOTE: skitter

[Chara]

i don't know, both of your takes in your post feel really pointless. the one about minhyu especially, because of the number of scum who do exactly that and how NAI it is, and i know you have enough experience to have seen it before.
gut reaction to it was you're either town trying to get discussion going or scum thinking of things to comment on.

[Chara]

skitter's opinion on it is pretty close to mine so i won't repeat.

and the thing about having more time to cover one's tracks is you also have more time to leave accidental tells.

[Chara]

VOTE: Enter
I don't like that he hard-dodged my question about what wagons are viable or not.

VOTE: Varsoon
i don't like that you placed an L-1 vote for this reason after saying you didn't understand the wagon.

[Chara]

let's not end the day yet please

hey chara, what do you think of a50?

he hasn't done all that much to think about yet. why?

Persivul: were you being serious, or joking about Almost's claiming habits?

[Chara]

I mean it’s clear I was pushing Enter, regardless, so the vote doesn’t mean much right now. As skitter said, it’s still very early. Had he not already had multiple votes on him, I may have been quicker to place one.

i'm sort of townreading this reply.

skitter: i'd love to hear about those pings! but i'm not especially good at reading Almost. i'm hovering around being paranoid of town Almost and too trusting of scum him, so giving him breathing room is my current tactic.

[Chara]

@Chara: Why not A50, who threatened to hammer?
Feels like you might be tilting a bit much here.
I still don't understand why Enter's wagon flew up to L-2 so fast, but Enter seeming to have hard dodged that made me want to put real pressure there. I trusted we wouldn't have a Boonskies situation and see a quickhammer.

Almost's was an explicit joke, as you said.
what makes you think i'm tilted? we've barely begun, i'd think it's far too early to say that.

it'd be nice if Enter answered, but that he missed one question came off as a "dodge" to you just seemed a little too much for the L-1 vote, it's like you went straight to that.
and lolhammers happen all the time.

[Chara]

*as mcqueen said, is what i meant there.

[Chara]

Persivul needs to be lynched for calling Zito Papa.

Enter should do something besides try to accrue votes because i'm townreading his entire behaviour, but i also don't find it useful at all to actually catching scum. if we're talking about fostering meaningful discussion, having a single wagon is about as boring as it will get.

[Chara]

Persivul needs to be lynched for calling Zito Papa.

Enter should do something besides try to accrue votes because i'm townreading his entire behaviour, but i also don't find it useful at all to actually catching scum. if we're talking about fostering meaningful discussion, having a single wagon is about as boring as it will get.

Gimme a minute, I was trying to do something. Mum, you're right though, one wagon sucks.

Join me here?
VOTE: Varsoon

are you joking?

[Chara]

@Chara: Didn't know if it was a joke for sure, but I was fairly certain that Enter posting but not addressing me felt like a hard dodge and I was curious why he was disregarding direct addresses when sitting at L-2 even. When I say 'tilted' I mean like 'tilting your hand' not like you were invested to the point of making mistakes (like how the phrase usually gets used) but it is similar--I feel like the way you're handling Enter betrays a confident townread there and I dunno why you have so much confidence in any read this early on. What's the deal?

i do have a pretty good townread there. if anyone is "tilting their hand" i'd call it Enter himself.

[Chara]

Anyway, it did get people to react as if I had put an RVS flash-wagon at L-1 so it worked as (sort of) a reaction test. Dunno what that says about Chara and Enter, though.

UNVOTE:
you're right, that does explain things.

[Chara]

P-EDIT:
@Chara: Howso (re: Enter Tilt)?
I wanna know why you're confident in Enter being town here. I don't get why the wagon exists or why anyone would hard-town Enter here either.

Enter wants votes on himself. he promises fun when he gets them. two and two make four.

[Chara]

yes, Enter townread has to do with the softclaim. i'm willing to let him be, conditionally.
i'm putting some weight into skitter's Almost read, so we'll see where that goes. not that i plan on pushing Almost day 1.
VOTE: Robert
when in doubt sheep imp sheeping Zito?

[Chara]

So I don't have any reads

That's encouraging

you should townread me! :>
i'm guessing this is your first ms game. do you have thoughts, if not reads?

[Chara]

VOTE: Fish
this is more fun, actually. for 48 and the next three posts in his ISO.

[Chara]

why wouldn't you notice it on your own, if you see what i'm seeing? what are you thinking i'm thinking about it?
Varsoon and i had a short chat about the softclaim.

[Chara]

i'd be happy to answer, but now i want to see what mcqueen thinks before i do.

[Chara]

this early i find it good practice to attack most things that i see. but you're basically close to what i was thinking. it's too demonstrative of confidence and it looks like he's trying to project towniness without it feeling real. could be personality, could be scummy, but it's enough for me to press.
you do make a good point about it looking worse in ISO, but even in context it looks like baiting that lacks either a desire to understand Enter's position or to scumread it; it simply discredits it.

[Chara]

i'd like to hear it in your own words, Fish.

[Chara]

i don't think Fish looks worried either.
as for why i didn't bring it up earlier: i didn't really take notice at the time, it came up on a reread.

[Chara]

VOTE: Fish
this is more fun, actually. for 48 and the next three posts in his ISO.

What do you think of 50?

That post is IMO the key to the interaction, but I have additional insight from the hood.

i'm assuming you find Enter scummy for it? it looks overeager, but i don't see the scumminess.

[Chara]

overeager, like the rest of his play.
if the softclaim ends up being nothing i'd be more amenable to Enter scum, but the way i'm reading it (and Persivul's description of the talk in hood) looks like Enter is trying to *do things* and it feels awkwardly town.

pedit: what's a bsd?

[Chara]

Have you played w/ Chara before?

i can only remember the one time, because Zito's frustration made it into my signature. (of Not Chara)
i for one am excited to have a more positive experience with poor Zito.

[Chara]

So let me get this straight: You are sheeping skitter on me, and she is sheeping you on me?? Am I such a pain in the neck to read that everyone seems to be denying responsibility for a mere preliminary read based on tone/gut?

i told skitter to avoid sheeping me on you, actually.
let's just say coalition taught me a lesson.

townleaning pinyu. i have a sense he would have at least tried to fake a read or two. not that strong because he could be 100% NAI lost.

[Chara]

didn't you just say you were thinking there's a good chance the hood is all town? i know that's an obvious question, but.

[Chara]

also i'm not really vibing the chara townreads rn

alright, those are townpoints for skitter. provided she remembers coalition as well as i do.

[Chara]

well, skitter is getting other townpoints in a more general sense too, but this has made me confident enough to call her a townread.

i remember reading Enter way back when he was Extrapolated_Eagle (is that correct, Enter)? so that may be subconsciously affecting my read.

[Chara]

not sure why this makes you townread me really either?

i think scum skitter would be more likely to townbin me considering my many statements last game. that you're not townreading me when i haven't done much AI yet (in spite of townreads on me) looks good for you.
your posting is good in general, too.

[Chara]

Maybe. Your name looks familiar, but I just went through all the games on that account and I didn't see you or Not Chara there. Do you have another alt or did you hydra?

i read a few games my friends were in before i started playing myself. Not Chara's join date is when i first started for real. i don't know if you remember A Real Scourge, she was one. your name was familiar enough that i found a game and remembered a few things that stood out. it was a while ago however so i don't plan on reading hazy memories of old games i read as meta. :>

[Chara]

i could flashwagon a50, sure

VOTE: a50

And I could OMGUS, sure

VOTE: skitter

i am extremely uninterested in both of these wagons.

[Chara]

i'm already on Fish!
and neither do i. i don't really meta players unless i have personal experience with them as both alignments in multiple games. unless it's simply determining whether a given behaviour is NAI.

[Chara]

this is a prod dodge, sorry.
VOTE: Robert

[Chara]

my post was a prod dodge, prod dodging wasn't the reason for my vote.

[Chara]

my post was a prod dodge, prod dodging wasn't the reason for my vote.

Well, he/she asked for your reasoning.

+1

you asked why i voted Robert over minyu. i'm townleaning minyu.

[Chara]

townleaning pinyu. i have a sense he would have at least tried to fake a read or two. not that strong because he could be 100% NAI lost.

there you go. he's just shy of null.

i voted Robert because no one else was on Fish and the state of the wagons right now sucked. :>

[Chara]

never played with pinyu. based on his unfamiliarity with forum mafia and reference to games like ToS (which was my guess) i think it's reasonable he could have some trouble here. i suppose he could be scum who doesn't know what he's supposed to do, but if we consider a scum pinyu i'd think he would at least drop a townread on somebody someone else said was town, or else take a cue from the scumbuddy he must have (assuming no daytalk).
it's a very weak read but enough that i prefer a different wagon.

[Chara]

actually no, i'm a fool.
VOTE: minyu
he's still voting skitter and liked my explanation.

[Chara]

actually no, i'm a fool.
VOTE: minyu
he's still voting skitter and liked my explanation.

Why is it bad to leave a vote on someone -even you no longer SR them- when: A) You have not thought of a better wagon to join, and B) the wagon you're on is

@L-5

???

eh you're... probably right. what i find odd is him saying he liked the explanation for my vote on skitter but then no longer having reads. so did he change his mind on skitter? i could have read too much into it.

[Chara]

how is Almost asking me a fair question him pushing me? he was right.

[Chara]

last post is at skitter.

[Chara]

ugh. ms ate my post. tonight isn't my night. i'll continue that thought tomorrow. the tl;dr is i'm back townleaning Minyu but i'm not happy about it. and that skitter is still towny.

[Chara]

although slightly weirded out by him sheeping me on redtea like that tbh

why is that?

[Chara]

wait why are you back at town!minhyu?

my own original reasoning, i realized i was being a hypocrite with that vote. was in the post before it got eaten, sorry.

[Chara]

Don't recall skittles at all.

A50's tone, I think. That cheekiness. Maybe it's just how A50 posts. I also wonder if that dude's 50 or older yet and if when he does turn 50, he'll make a new account since he won't be almost 50 any longer.

he's no longer

almost

fifty. :>

and it's how he posts. i thought you had more moderator experience with Almost than this though, his tone is usally pretty standard across his games.

[Chara]

4. BEF exists in a nebulous realm below town but above feeling nothing, and I only took him out of my town list because I read Chara describe his reaction to Enter's vote as awkward/bad and then I felt self conscious about being wrong and removed him. *emphatic nodding*

i don't believe i've ever identified with a reason for a read as i am right now.

[Chara]

can someone who's been saying that redtea is talking a lot without saying anything (skitter or elbirn is who i remember) give me a post where she's doing that and explain it? because i've gone through her iso looking for it and i'm not sure what you mean.
being scum who talks a lot but doesn't really say anything... it sounds good, but how often is it scum doing that in order to fake engagement, and how often is it a person with a tendency to circle words around?

also Elbirn can freely pocket me, i'm sold.
it's true that i haven't done much objectively AI (and skitter's paranoia still feels more real than notl) but it's also true i exude a towny miasma at all times. the Zito townread is interesting though, if only for its strength.

[Chara]

mcqueen might be my most confident townread and i need to examine why. i remember feeling strongly about it while browsing at work but i need to re-ISO.

kind of echoing skitter's Varsoon bad vibes.

was ISOing Zito and i can't remember if Enter replied to 301. if not, i'd like to see that.

[Chara]

I guess there could be three? IDK, what makes sense here?

right, you did reply.
i'd guess three based on pure numbers. what made you think two?

[Chara]

Naked votes are lack of effort and scummy.

VOTE: redtea

[Chara]

I think mcqueen is really not playing scum right now. That BEF vote feels like a really awkward tact as scum. Still don't think BEF is scum either.

it was mcqueen's naked Elbirn vote after Elbirn's reads that made me want to consider my townread on him more closely. i just don't think scum plays like this and mcqueen has felt very honest.

hi Enter, why am i scum? and what do you mean by "back"?

[Chara]

Persivul needs to be lynched for calling Zito Papa.

Enter should do something besides try to accrue votes because i'm townreading his entire behaviour, but i also don't find it useful at all to actually catching scum. if we're talking about fostering meaningful discussion, having a single wagon is about as boring as it will get.

Gimme a minute, I was trying to do something. Mum, you're right though, one wagon sucks.

Join me here?
VOTE: Varsoon

Nah I'd rather be random and look at all my options.

vote redtea

Vote Mcqueen

Policy.

Naked votes are lack of effort and scummy.

why was mcqueen's vote there scummy, Robert?

[Chara]

Naked votes are lack of effort and scummy.

VOTE: redtea

VOTE: Robert
i should have done that in the first place, but hindsight.

[Chara]

Because more often then not its a scum tactic, Happened in a recent game and I'm not going to change my mind simply cause you vote me. Surprise surprise who flipped scum that game too....

you naked voted redtea earlier this game, outside of RVS.

the redtea wagon is otherwise one that i'm townreading, and skitter's explanation of how redtea feels like she isn't committing to real stances does make sense. i don't know if i personally scumread her for it, my read strength this game hasn't reached a place i'm happy with yet.

Enter: oh, i didn't realize you'd voted me before.
i thought minhyu was doing something slimy before it was pointed out to me that he wasn't really.

[Chara]

I voted for activity, there is a difference.

for who's activity?
it's still a naked vote. why didn't you wonder why mcqueen had voted?

and i'm not concerned about a vote on mcqueen, i'm reading you here, not him.

[Chara]

i'm also townreading Elbirn. and i'd vote anyone over a no lynch, but my preference would be a nullread over a townread.
i also thought we had longer days for some reason, but i'm not sure why.
Fish i'm fine with, i don't find his responses particularly towny. but i think we have time enough that i want to see how Robert replies to things.

[Chara]

i remember it being a rule i was coached on a while back, too. i don't use it now because it's so easy to manipulate.
Robert does seem lynchbaity, but i'm usually pretty good at finding the town in that, and i'm not seeing it here.

539 is a towny post, for me right now.
i haven't slept in 28 hours so, let's take everything with a grain of salt.

[Chara]

even though i told you his tone is NAI?

[Chara]

i really really don't see it

it's not even that, it's more like i could understand someone thinking it. what i understand less is Varsoon repeating "it's town tone" after i've told him Almost's tone is not really AI. though not sure how AI it is for Varsoon to straight ignore me. (and skitter.)

skitter: i thought i said why already, if not it's because of how your reads seem to be forming really organically. i was prepared to be extremely paranoid of you but instead i'm mostly confident you're just town. i've liked your takes as well, for the most part.

[Chara]

Honestly Robert is probably null too. He just feels... idk. His posting is really meh but there's not a ton of scum motivation around much of it. Like his mcqueen vote and his defense of it is kind of a dumb thing to do as scum. Actually think he's town the more I look at his recent posting.

i can agree with it. it's not a great play as scum but it also isn't a good town play, which is why i find it hard to townread.
i'm okay with the vote there because of how i feel on the rest of the list, though my reads are much weaker than i normally like to PoE with.
i'm also scumreading Varsoon but i would not lynch him today.
redtea feels null but the arguments for scum her make logical sense, so it's a fine wagon too. in hindsight i suppose scum Robert (why i avoided the redtea wagon) would probably do something other than bemoan the wagon and say he no longer scumread her, if she was town and he scum.

[Chara]

unpopular opinion, but i agree with Zito on that. i don't consider it policy because to me, failure to be town is the same as being scummy.
but i'm reconsidering my preference of Robert over redtea. i thought imp's posts on the subject were good.

also echoing that Varsoon is extremely reactive as town too and that i'm reconsidering the scumread there based on how he's played this day. so i'll see what he does going into day 2.
sorry for the lukewarm post. i'm playing kingdom hearts. you should understand that this momentous occasion takes precedence.

[Chara]

I can understand Chara's skepticism of me though. Even

inside our own hydra PT

they sometimes get confused as to what I'm doing. It's a matter of playing styles differences. Ironically, I believe that's one major reason why our hydra works just fine. Two people who play totally different from each other, so even inside the hydra PT we are having fun debating our play, reads and what not.

unfortunately, i can confirm this. but it's all in good fun!

and i can also say i completely understand your skitter townread. the meta isn't so clear cut for me but i don't see any signs of skitter trying to deep wolf or that she's anything but relaxed right now.

what's your read on me? if it's town, you can go ahead and take mcqueen out of your lynchpool. :> and no, it's not gut, but i don't feel like going into a longwinded explanation when he's in no danger of being lynched.
but more concerned with how you're reading me here and why.

[Chara]

oh and skitter: yes, it's

partially

because of the game that just finished, the only thing i was paying full attention to was the scumteam.

[Chara]

Voting for Robert here isn't a vote for scum so much as it is voting to punish someone for playing poorly, and I have no confidence that that leads to a lynch on scum. Like yeah, you caught me, given the way he's played thus far I don't want to be with him in LYLO, but I also don't see how that translates into him being worth a lynch, because to me the only people worth a lynch are people I think are scum. And you just double downed on there not being a reason to think he's scum.

(Dear Chara I hope you enjoy your videogame time)

i think it's possible to play 'poorly' (subjectively) while still looking town, which is why i'm comfortable making the distinction. and yes, that isn't to say i think Robert is a bad player, but i do think he's being unclear.
VOTE: redtea
i meant to do that earlier.

(thank you Elbirn. <3)

pedit: Enter is an example of the play i dislike but find sort of towny. the contradiction in the read on you is something i didn't notice, however, and i'd like to see what he has to say.

[Chara]

yeah i guess i'm kinda wondering what happened to the paranoia given coalition and the fact that you backup modded that game (which i forgot about it till last night)
like i guess i haven't played enough with you to know whether the default is 'paranoid of me' - like i don't know if town!you *would* be paranoid, but i also don't know if you wouldn't

i mean, if i was just automatically paranoid of you a second time in spite of seeing a lot of your townplay in coalition, it'd mean i wasn't trying to improve my play or improve on how to read you. i was wary of your scumgame and your play seemed very "perfect", but i can see now that that's how town skitter behaves so now i'm able to focus on other things.

[Chara]

implosion already explained it in depth and skitter had talked about it before that.

[Chara]

implosion already explained it in depth and skitter had talked about it before that.

Well you're wrong, let's lynch robert.

nah. he's being town. his arguments are bad, though.

[Chara]

it sounds like there's a role that grants abilities and that you can't be targeted with those abilities.
obviously don't target me with them either, seeing as i'm ascetic.

[Chara]

Please explain.

high stubborness and low survivability. it's towny.

[Chara]

I know Zito wasn't asking me, but Persivul sounds like he's trying to lead people along, and using the pressing deadline to obfuscate the sudden push.
Would rather lynch him, actually. Decent SR on him anyway. This doesn't have to do with any read on Robert, for the record. This could easily be a bus.
VOTE: Persivul
More pending

contrasting redtea here who may have mad a subpar decision to try and start a new wagon, but is still happily open to the possibility of lynching Robert.

[Chara]

contrasting redtea here who may have mad a subpar decision to try and start a new wagon, but is still happily open to the possibility of lynching Robert.

Where do you disagree with my 725 assessment of redtea?

Do you think Robert really needs to care about his wagon so long as redtea's continues to be the top one?

that's what i was referencing in my post, i don't think what redtea did was a

good

idea if scum but i can see an attempt to do something besides simply vote her counterwagon (which does not often help the scum escape the lynch on its own).

[Chara]

and i think he does need to care since redtea being the top one doesn't guarantee she'll remain so.
i also find Robert's tone a lot more stubborn even if he has less posts.

[Chara]

Mcqueen is a policy, naking voting is crap and don't care what people say. It looks scummy to me, hence he's on my scum read.

@Persivul, I do have a question for you. Say you somehow do manage to get me lynched today, would it be Rocket Science that when I flip town, cause I'm going to Flip town, that it was you who pushed so hard to lynch a townie that you should be on the chopping block?


Still waiting for somebody to explain the Redtea wagon.

it's really this portion here that made me more confident on the subject. "naked voting is crap and i don't care what you say" is a strong assertion.

[Chara]

it's also worth it to note that i just spectated a game with scum Robert. his scumplay wasn't especially strong and all of his stances were weak, it felt like he was more just trying to go through the motions. the emotion that's here is missing as well.
i'm not saying i'm metaing him on one game, what i did was read him here first, and then go and check the other game and find it consistent.

saying "screw you" to the majority of the playerlist (not in so many words but rather in action) is something i find fairly towny. i also don't take disengagement or apathy as scummy, Enter, seeing as i see town do it unfortunately often.

[Chara]

Because more often then not its a scum tactic, Happened in a recent game and I'm not going to change my mind simply cause you vote me. Surprise surprise who flipped scum that game too....

i didn't see it earlier, but i'm townreading this post too.

[Chara]

Are you saying he does have emotion in this game? Because I don't really see it. Maybe a couple faint glimmers, but not much more than that - nothing that feels real.

i do, and emotion reading is one of the few things i'm confident in. and yes, scum can be emotional.
we can agree to disagree but i'll assert it's definitely there in the posts i quoted. there's an energy and a belief he's spouting, and one that doesn't seem directed to a scum agenda. i think he's a bad lynch.

mcqueen: i've been focussing entirely on the two wagons since i got back. i have a townread on Robert and a scumread on redtea. the scumread isn't as strong as i'd like but it's there and i plan to push it until deadline hits.

you're town, skitter's town, Almost might be town (will come back to this), Elbirn's town, imp is town. i see the arguments for town Fish but i haven't given him a good look in a bit and don't know where my read is. rest of the list is in reads purgatory until i re-orient myself.

i have very limited time so i'm focussing on what's immediately important.

[Chara]

Can you give me the redtea case in your own words please?

not a townread, and lower than a nullread. counter to a wagon i think is town. soft stances that don't commit and soft support of the Robert wagon.

[Chara]

i like "lack of towniness" pushes but they're only good in the absence of someone scummier and with the presence of a solid PoE of townreads. if we're playing the comparison game redtea wins every time. if someone has a good towncase for her (my fault if i missed it, i did skim) i'd appreciate being directed to it.

Zito's towncase for redtea also applies to Robert continuing to vanity vote mcqueen, so i don't see why redtea is townier for that.

[Chara]

Also I refuse to allow a redtea push as much as it is in my power, because she is my strongest town read.

and this is why you're townish, and also why i don't think our conversation is going to get anybody anywhere, as i really disagree on redtea being a strong townread.

i also hard disagree on Robert not being emotional. if you don't see it there's nothing i can do.

[Chara]

would it be better if i clarified that by emotional i don't mean he's screaming at anyone, i mean that i can see a human with opinions and attitude that is just posting those things.

[Chara]

Enter's back in my townlist.

[Chara]

So "counter to a wagon i think is town" and "soft support of the Robert wagon" both depend on the alignment of an unflipped player with no investigation. These are completely invalid.

we have two options for lynch and less than 24 hours. are you suggesting i should be voting Robert, who i townread, instead of redtea?
"soft support" is completely valid because it's not committing to the Robert scumread.

considering your own reason for lynching Robert is "not being town", are you in any position to be saying 'is that really it'?

[Chara]

i'm trying not to be immediately dismissive but i'm not seeing how your reason for townreading redtea doesn't also apply to Robert. neither of them are scumreading each other, but redtea is actually being more supportive of her counterwagon's existence than Robert, who doesn't seem to care, so i don't know why you townread redtea for it exclusively.

[Chara]

oh and i'd missed your question. kingdom hearts iii is amazing.

[Chara]

Enter, there's really not much time for wink-wink nudge-nudge.

I can't full claim on day one, but I have information about redtea. If we flip her right now it is worse than flipping Robert. Let's pretend we don't know either alignment. Redtea flips town is much, much worse for town than Robert flipping town.


And the last minute push by BEF is scummy AF if Robert flips scum.

you should have said this before we only had two lynch options.

[Chara]

from your perspective of wanting Robert lynched, of course it is. because he's the only other option.

i'll hammer since we're out of time.

[Chara]

I was thinking more from the perspective that it gave him maximum information on who was willing to push redtea down to the wire.

But yeah sure that one too.

i guess so.
VOTE: Robert

[Chara]

i mean, for them to have lucked out on a lover kill seems slightly implausible to me. not impossible, just not super likely
like killing redtea last night without knowledge of the lover thing is kinda .... a really really really dumb kill given the two wagons yesterday

i don't know. with Enter's warnings before deadline, i found it likely that redtea was some sort of PR.

[Chara]

@chara does the hated go away in lylo?

mylo and lylo, yes.

[Chara]

if they aren't in the hood then they wouldn't shoot for the lovers; if they aren't in the hood shooting redtea is dumb and idk why they shoot enter last night either really

Did you read the flips? Enter wasn't shot last night. Or am I misunderstanding?

@Percy/BEF/Zito: Did Enter also claim his Commute shot in the PT?

yes, Enter definitely wasn't shot, it says he suicided at dawn.

[Chara]

You forgot a little bit of the "context." You didn't tell people that there were 2 pages of back and forth between you and Enter last night (Zito had a few posts, redtea came in toward the end); Enter only claimed out of frustration with that conversation; and Enter still thought you were scum and said he was going to push you today.

i sort of like the subtle accusation of Fish here, like you're saying he's scum who was hoping that somehow Zito and yourself would just not mention that he was fighting with Enter, and kept it secret on purpose to avoid looking bad.
Enter claiming out of frustration doesn't surprise me. especially if it's frustration with another town player. (really, the number one cause of frustration.)
do you think Fish is scummy for this?

i've considered Zito scum too but since he was arguing for a town lynch over a different town lynch i don't find it especially AI.
and there's the additional context of him knowing redtea was Enter's lover and not wanting her dead.
he's still pretty null to me, in the end.

[Chara]

i didn't make it that clear in my post, but i think Fish is town and i find Persivul's post a shade attempt on Fish.

[Chara]

Good thing we didn't need your vote I guess.

Chara, why the 30 minute gap between promising to vote and actually doing so?

because i was in class? why is this notable to you?

[Chara]

i sort of like the subtle accusation of Fish here, like you're saying he's scum who was hoping that somehow Zito and yourself would just not mention that he was fighting with Enter, and kept it secret on purpose to avoid looking bad.

Where do you get subtle? I thought that point was pretty blatant. The reason I'm not pushing Fish harder is because he also said in PT that he can conftown himself today after a couple of unnamed people post. I'm giving him time for that. Wouldn't you?

did Fish claim that publicly? why did you out it? (if not.)

[Chara]

it's not for being open. if you'd just said "this is the full context for what happened", that's one thing. the implication that Fish was hiding it for scummy reasons is what i took issue with, because scum Fish should know that others in the hood can easily reveal his omission.

[Chara]

Why didn't you just vote when you said you were going to? What were you waiting for?

because Robert wasn't my preferred lynch and i was hesitant to vote there if there was a way out of it. it soon became obvious to me that there wasn't when i next had a chance to look at the game.

[Chara]

What bothers me is that BEF thinks there is scum in the hood but worries about his soft-claim being outted to town outside the hood.
Doesn't make sense.

good point.
i still think he's town but i'd like to know why.

[Chara]

yes, but not going to go into my feelings on it more until he replies.

[Chara]

why do you think scum wouldn't have talked in the hood? i don't know if a lot of scumsters would see the lack of a listing in the OP and then decide they aren't going to post in the hood from only that. it isn't like there was sensitive information in it right from the start.

looking at it after knowing information was spilled within the hood, it's easy to say that scum could easily be hiding, but they would have had to make the decision not to post essentially immediately, without knowing if it would be worth it.
i don't know, it just feels like an assumption based on hindsight rather than foresight.

and Persivul: i'm not locktowning Fish. i'm townreading him. it's easy to "consider if he's scum" and then talk about what he's done if scum.
consider that he's town and had a TvT fight. and consider that he was fighting with Enter, in a PT that has enough people in it to be considered public. would you think this was scummy if he'd been fighting with Enter in the main thread as much as the PT?

Fish does need to out what he's talking about, though. if it's bullshit, don't pretend it isn't bullshit. and you didn't answer

why

you claimed it in the hood you think contains scum, Fish.

[Chara]

yeah but then today he needs to conftown himself, and if he doesn't he's going to get pushed today anyways? since someone in the hood is going to repeat what he said today most probably
like i don't get what benefit he gets out of this really

also like ... if i were scum with him i'd have him like repeat everything that's going on in the hood and make sure things like 'claim conftown in order to get the lover pair off his back the same night i'm planning on killing the lover pair' doesn't happen
like who is he scum with that they all think this is a good idea? li

i'm here as well. like it just seems like a much better idea to simply kill the Lovers and not throw a claim into it. especially since you're scum and can't follow through.
if he did it to "cover for the kill" then that... doesn't do anything. at all. conftown claims with no proof are worthless. are you saying his plan was to hope everybody forgot about his fight with Enter because of his conftown claim, or to hope that it'd distract for a moment and nobody would push him for it?

most importantly, i don't think scum had to have heard the claim at all. Enter said, in the main thread, that redtea dying if town is worse than town Robert dying. that alone is a softclaim. combined with how Enter earlier pointed out that the entire hood wasn't voting redtea? it's painfully, painfully obvious. if scum is in the hood: they knew about the lovers qnd killed redtea. if scum isn't in the hood: they read the main thread and took a shot based on information given out publicly. a less sure one but anybody reading end of day 1 and thinking redtea wasn't a PR (and if scum they would know she's town, obviously) was just not reading.

i don't think it's worthwhile to be saying scum had to be someplace or another.
and this is in spite of my scumread on Persivul, who's in the hood.

[Chara]

But yeah if I was in a hood and my username wasn't a part of the hood, I wouldn't post in there at all. I'd also ask the mod if ANYONE knew the memberlist or if that was info I could reliably go off if.
If I suspected someone had the member list, then I would post, if only to WIFOM about how I wouldn't post if I was scum.

i believe you would. do i believe every scum would?

[Chara]

Chara, I DREAM of the day that a mod has oversight enough to make a spy hood and then town is foolish enough to post anything truthful in there.

isn't that what just... happened? assuming your own theory?

pedit: and yes, that's my point. i don't think you can assume scum would stay quiet because not everyone thinks before every move they make as scum.

[Chara]

ah, i see.
i mean, no, it isn't great.
agree with 930.

don't like how Persivul has approached this at all. he says "Enter kill makes Fish the prime suspect" which makes the assumption that scum knew about the lovers (and

not

simply that redtea was a PR), and ignores that any scum who did know of the lovers would want the double-kill here, not just Fish.

he also says that if scum BEF claimed that he could conftown in order to cover for the kill. that, if he really could conftown, he had nothing to fear from Enter and so no reason to be killing him. the logic falls apart if scum Enter can't actually conftown. Persivul says it's just a bad claim made in the heat of an argument, but i don't like to assume scum do senseless things for no good reason.

the new evidence Persivul thinks skitter and i should be looking at is that Enter and Fish had a big fight in the PT, and that Enter would push him. they were fighting in the thread too, is that surprising? the other evidence is Fish's conftown claim. considering that hasn't resolved any conclusion from that is an assumption.

half of this is moot until Fish explains what his conftowning is, though.

[Chara]

i think papa zito is scum
the fact that he's in the hood is additional evidence pointing in that direction but that's not why i'm voting him rn; i would have voted him there today irregardless

if scum flips in the hood you're a very viable partner imo given that you're trying to distract attention from there rn

hey skitter, i found Zito's defense of skitter and pushing of Robert to be townier than Persivul's compromise vote. since both wagons were town, having a strong preference for one looks better to me.
i realize i'm not actually sure what you're scumreading Zito for.

[Chara]

And that's all I'm asking. As I've said, I'm giving him time to prove himself. I don't see why you have a problem with that.

Guess what - yes, it looks bad for fish that he got enter to claim, enter said he'd push fish today, and enter ended up dead. You are indeed locktowning him if you can't admit such a plain fact.

it does look bad. i'm not locktowning him just because i don't agree that he's scum for it.
what's your read on me?

[Chara]

Pocket Skitter sounds like a neat pokemon, too.

I haven't had a good hoodgame in awhile. I was super jealous of how EVERYONE else had hoods in UpicketyPick, too.

where are your reads at?

[Chara]

saying "this looks obviously suspicious" and saying "okay, this player is scum for it" is such a basic and easily defensible conclusion. you haven't had a good argument for my responses against it. you've just kept repeating your same original point over and over again.
you haven't replied to Enter soft-outing redtea as an important PR. (not Enter's fault, also not my point)
you haven't replied to if Enter's fight with Fish and the promise to push him would make Fish more likely scum had it happened in the thread.
you haven't replied as to how it doesn't make sense for Fish to claim to be able to conftown to dodge heat for the Enter kill when he would know at the time of the claim that it wouldn't hold up.
and you'd need to explain why he had enough foresight to preemptively cover his ass on said Enter kill with that claim, but not enough foresight to not make the bad claim in the first place.

[Chara]

why is Zito so high, again? i think you said something about tone but i'm not remembering.
and also at least some sort of acknowledgement of both me and skitter saying Almost's tone isn't AI. :>

[Chara]

Elbirn: good point on Enter not being the target => implies scum wss in the hood. i was reading it as redtea having claimed something in the hood that made her valuable alive, and didn't consider masons because of Enter's "redtea's townflip is worse than Robert's townflip" because that doesn't imply masons to me. Enter stressing redtea's importance alive is why i think scum would have shot that. maybe i don't find masons all that important, though.

[Chara]

why do you want input on why it would have failed? there's a finite list of reasons why. ascetic, you got roleblocked, your target was untargetable. that's the full and complete list with the zero information you've given.

[Chara]

any other reason would be a condition on your own role, which you should already know.
so i don't understand the point of your question. you aren't a newbie as far as i can tell.

[Chara]

...well, no.
if your target is ascetic and didn't claim it, that makes them scum.

and i have no idea if there's a day roleblocking role. there could be. this is a theme game and you have a day role, so why wouldn't there be?

[Chara]

you're not outing anybody's role if you claim to have used an ability on them and it failed. you're only outing your own. either you got blocked somehow (the less likely option, to me), or your target was ineligible to be targeted. for town that's a negative utility that warrants a claim.

[Chara]

i missed a few options, if your target was rendered untargetable by something else your ability would of course fail. for example if they commuted like Enter, or were jailkept, or you were redirected onto me.
that's again more guessing. i don't believe there's a good way to know, or if it's more optimal to make you claim either your target or what the ability does, first.

[Chara]

OMG

Can we chalk this all up to that I'm just an idiot and move on?

...who did you target?

[Chara]

i suppose it matters if Fish targeted a commuter. we already have a flipped one, so i thought it less likely.
i asked because i was wondering why he suddenly said he's an idiot and is going to try again. it sounded like he might have targeted me? i don't think he

was

townreading me but now i'm not so sure.

i don't really get your second point. are you saying a scum ascetic is unlikely because none of the flipped town roles so far target other players..?
and Fish

just

claimed a role that is neither passive, defensive, or self-targeting.

[Chara]

okay, i'll concede on that. i'm townreading him so it doesn't bother me all that much.
and he probably did not target me. i'm assuming, Fish?

[Chara]

if Fish can act again tomorrow and pick a valid target that time, i find it very relevant. but if Fish flips town i'm also pretty comfortable just turbolynching Persivul, so.

[Chara]

mcqueen does need to post, but he's also really town.
Zito is doing things i disagree with but he's hard to scumread because i'm really feeling his thought process.

[Chara]

BEF/Varsoon/Chara

If I'm right you three have to buy me a pizza postgame

Thanks ♡

so you think both of Fish's buddies are hard defending him?
and that Fish claimed

this

badly with daytalk? and safeclaims?

[Chara]

it feels like the holistic half of the list is townreading Fish and the logical half wants him lynched. but i thought Elbirn was more of a holistic player so the list has me the most confused from him.

at this point i doubt we'll get a lynch without a claim. if it outs his PR so be it, and it will be provable or it won't be.

[Chara]

Varsoon: on the mcqueen townread. his ISO is just really towny to me as a whole and i don't feel like towncasing him but i will if you're very concerned i could be dismissing scum mcqueen as town of if you're concerned about me having the read.

[Chara]

The following is public knowledge: the setup consists of a town faction (Human) and a single groupscum faction (Typhon), where "groupscum" is defined as having more than one player. Typhon will have daytalk and safe claims. It is not public knowledge whether other alignments exist in the game.

[Chara]

i don’t know how you still have a town read on me when i haven’t done anything today. tomorrow I have a lot of downtime. I promise I’ll read up and give my thoughts. Sorry for active lurking

you were towny day 1, i don't really see why i'd stop townreading you just because your activity disappeared. activity isn't AI.
hope to see your thoughts tomorrow though.

Elbirn: i don't know you that well either, so i suppose that's fair. it just seemed an odd team for you to come up with even with your issues today with Varsoon.

[Chara]

skitter, why is all of your logic here ignoring that scum have fakeclaims?

[Chara]

at least that's how it feels. i'm townreading Fish too, though.

[Chara]

hey guys. the lego movie sequel surprised me by being good.
i don't have a lot to add that isn't agreement with what's already been said, really. no major inclinations to go hard on this game and catch some scum when i believe said scum is just Persivul.
but i probably should still cement the reads i'm not sure on just for... conscientiousness's sake?

about my scumrange: if you're very concerned i can pull games, it's sufficient to say that i'm capable as scum, if not in the "nefarious schemes" department then in the "looking like town" department.

[Chara]

Persivul wagon's way too easy, feels scum-endorsed.

who are you scumreading on it?

[Chara]

Varsoon, your reads and the way they're coming through continue to not fully make sense to me.
when did skitter become more likely scum than me? there's a start.

pedit: let's not count our failures before they come to fruition.

[Chara]

i'm aware i'm not voting Percy. didn't feel the need when resolving Fish wss central.

[Chara]

P-EDIT:
@Chara: I believe you more. It's harder for me to follow Skitter.

why? am i townier now? is she less?

[Chara]

at some point does the idea of scum avoiding town wagons loop around to scum aggressively pushing town wagons
mafia isn't real.

[Chara]

so it's very useful to motivate.... scum. who can't multitask normally.

[Chara]

i can't see a good reason to use that.

[Chara]

so did you target anyone day 1?

[Chara]

VOTE: Persivul
that's l-1.

[Chara]

also i think Elbirn is town if Percy flips scum here.
skeptical of Varsoon, and Almost.

skitter announcing a strong townread on me came off as strange. i don't really see the point of it. it's hard to explain but i already think i was pretty townread in a general sense.

[Chara]

the best argument against Persivul scum i can come up with is that he seems to have no defenders here aside from Elbirn, who i townread if he's scum.

[Chara]

I'll bite here as well, why am I a townread if percy is scum? Actually I think you townread me in general if I recall correctly, but this seems to imply that read is even stronger if I...defend hypothetical scum and they die?

Percy felt inevitable then, scum you with him would be better off bussing than weakly defending by saying you were townreading him.
but his claim changes things here.
UNVOTE:

[Chara]

Guys, IF there is scum in the neighborhood it's Zito. Both Persy & BEF are now Town to me and they will probably get resolved at night, so I don't want to do the scum's job for them. I am not lynching either.

don't really want to lynch either of them now, too.

[Chara]

VOTE: Zito

[Chara]

i'd vote Fish over Persivul here. my break's over but i'll be back tonight.
if one of Fish/mcqueen is scum i'd lynch the other.
Zito feels like possible sleeper scum but that might be unfair, he's playing well either way.

[Chara]

Persivul you didn't soft anything on Day 1 did you?

No. I don't soft without good reason. In my first game here, the scum IC (goodmorning) softed more than one role, so I don't see the point. It doesn't prove anything, but good scum will spot it and kill you.

this, i don't think softing is a good idea.

[Chara]

VOTE: implosion
i don't know if there's time for this wagon, but i think it on the whole feels a better option than Zito.
i wanted to see if this was a "leftovers" read or an actual scumread. leftovers brought him to my attention and then his approach to the game is what had me wanting this vote over Zito.
also: a stated reason for Persivul scum and redtea scum was the same. underwhelming response to pressure. i feel like town who saw the redtea flip would reconsider that particular thought if it had been so recently proved to be false.
hedging, which implosion is doing a

lot

of, is also not a scumtell by itself. but it's very safe.

i'm not sure if i'm biased, because implosion's style reminds me of mine, and my style as scum is to fake paranoia in the particular way he is now.
so i would love feedback. but we also have little time.

[Chara]

ducky: mcqueen is voting Zito, not himself! :>

[Chara]

also, i would go back to Zito if implosion isn't viable at all. i'm guessing there's not enough time but i'll be around to change votes either way.

[Chara]

Almost, if i'm scum here deepwolfing, you're right i wouldn't be concerned about Percy guiltying

me

.
what about my partners? my ascetic doesn't protect them.

also, why wouldn't i be aware of the VC status at a day from deadline when town?

[Chara]

oh, skitter already asked that and it didn't click.

and Almost, you're also forgetting that Fish's ability does

not

give anyone a second shot. what it does is enable multitasking. a player would need two abilities already before Fish's motivate was useful.

[Chara]

i'm not sure what changed from a few posts up, where you voted zito
not particularly vibing an implosion lynch today; i'd prefer in zito/persivul (and since persivul is presumably off the table, zito)
i own't vote bef today; if scum want him out of the game they need to nk him
(also the fact that both persivul and zito want this makes me quite wary)

i still think Zito is scummy and he's in my PoE, but with the context of me now thinking Persivul could be town, implosion is the most likely scum to me. but it's that or he's just naturally very hedgy, and also happens to be approaching the wagons in a way i think scum would.

[Chara]

i also think it's possible they're scum together. but if you're not into the wagon it's 99% not happening before day end. good to keep in mind next Day though.
VOTE: Zito
l-2 with mcqueen's vote.

pedit: the multitasking keyword Fish used is what tells me it's my interpretation, but hearing from the mod would be good.

[Chara]

the thing that doesn't make sense to me is that mcqueen voted Zito after Percy's claim. Almost then followed, and so did i. i could see reading mine as a possible bus vote, but mcqueen's?

[Chara]

i don't know why you're talking like i scumread Fish. i think he's town.
if it was Persivul, Fish, or no lynch, i would choose to lynch Fish that's all.

[Chara]

you do make a good point about it being swingy if he's scum.

[Chara]

this is either Almost's trademark moonlogic or one of his "too crazy an idea to try as scum unless you're Almost50" plays. the fact that it was prompted by me jumping off of Zito when Almost thinks he's scum leans it more to the former, perhaps?
there's one way this would make me Almost certain he's town but i'd have to wait on that.

[Chara]

the thing is that the specific thing that i have a lot of trouble with (faking real-time interaciton as scum in a way that makes me look townie) i think they're much better at than me,

so you have read a scumgame of mine?

i'm unwilling to call Almost town for this outright, because he knows i'd townread this behaviour on a base level. if i'm right about what he's doing (which i doubt i'll be able to tell until i see more of him) he's almost assuredly town. if i'm wrong, then he would have to be doing this to get townread by

me

specifically.

...i do love how vague that was.

we do have a day, i'd like to keep implosion in mind as likely scum but with the way things stand, Zito is the best lynch. Fish is pretty towny and his claim is just steange as scum. Percy claimed cop.

[Chara]

@skitter: They switched back to Zito after I made that case, when ""you" would be too stubborn to go back to Zito as Town, but very much willing to as Scum. That's a good example, I think.

but you just said i'm not very stubborn as town, which is true. what's the point of that comparison?

[Chara]

i moved back to Zito because i can't get an implosion wagon this day without skitter's enthusiastic support, which it's clear i didn't have after she replied.

[Chara]

If Zito flips Red though I still wouldn't be 100% in you, but it makes sense still, Don't you agree?

not really. i think you're overestimating how i'd react to a scumread from you on me as scum, but that's a pointless discussion to have midgame.

if he's my partner i've done both a very bad job of keeping him from being lynched, and of getting towncred for bussing him.

[Chara]

I think it better if we dropped the subject for now. The more you argue the more I suspect you, because I have just said I am not out to lynch you (yet) .. EVEN if/when Zito flips red, so your continuous defense of yourself looks quite alarming on its own.

Note: Chara is not one to fear death as Town. They may not try to "bait" the NK, but they certainly don't fight a lynch when there's actually NO VOTES on them.

So, IF you're town, you're misleading me now by fighting back rather than ignoring my case on you and continuing to scum hunt in your own way.

hm.
1) i don't fear a mislynch here (like... at all.), but i find this discussion valuable to read you with so i'll continue poking it. this is me scumhunting. what should i do instead, read obvtown skitter? i've already said Zito needs to be lynched today and there's not much else to be done here on that front.

2) i don't ignore players talking about me. ever. like...

ever

. talking about Chara is Chara's favorite subject! you know that. i'm pretty much incapable of ignoring a case on me as town.

[Chara]

so you were commuted last night, and all game, and now you're back with us at the station? :>

[Chara]

i thought today was going to be 5:3 and was going to suggest massclaim but idk if that's still optimal

so it's 6:3, so we're one mislynch from LyLo. massclaim might still be an option (since we can use it to lynch, and it would be worthless in lylo) but i don't want to go there yet. i think there's hunting to do, especially with Percy and Fish's shots.

[Chara]

Yeah, I've been commuted during night and days.
It's actually important that it specifies day as well--I think scum probably has some sort of day-time powers?

Fish has a day-power.

[Chara]

Varsoon not claiming that he was untargetable entirely is forgivable because he was trying to draw the kill, but i don't know if i love it.

i think Fish should claim who he actually targeted, even if it's completely pointless for reading him at this point. sort of wish Varsoon had waited until Fish's motivate today had been resolved before claiming.

[Chara]

If I had known we weren't going to be in LYLO, though, I'd still be commuting. That's twice that I called when to come back to station wrong. :/

no, i'm glad you came back. it's really annoying dealing with your lack of vote. now we finally have a margin for error on today's wagon.

[Chara]

i don't feel that Persivul is a goon cop. it doesn't feel like it fits or that it wouldn't work on scum in the hood. i think there are some scum that are Phantoms and Persivul can guilty those scum.

pedit: actually, you do bring up a good point. if Varsoon isn't town then his lack of a vote never actually hurt us. it was just being talked about so often as an annoyance that i sort of just accepted that.
so no, i'm not that sure he's town.

[Chara]

Persivul, what are your reads like now?

[Chara]

skitter is definitely town. i think that's the consensus but it's good to re-iterate she should never be lynched.
Elbirn and Almost are towny. i'll examine both of those in more detail today.
Percy and Fish are both claimed PRs, and while Fish's play doesn't make sense from scum, i'm still not seeing the town utility of it. Varsoon and Percy both wouldn't benefit from that motivate. (unless mod said it would allow Percy to target two players at once, for example.)
Varsoon's is also an odd role, i don't think it's scummy or towny by itself. his play i think leans towny.

mcqueen and implosion are left. (this is a good time to say this list isn't ordered by read strength.)
my townread on mcqueen was probably not built on a good foundation, but i did find him pretty genuine on day 1. i wouldn't be surprised if these two were both scum. obviously that leaves one of the PRs (or one of Almost and Elbirn, who i'll go over again) as the third scum.
what would be bad is if one of mcqueen or implosion was town.

that's about where i'm at right now. need to hear from Fish.

[Chara]

ok, tell me later. i'm off for a bit. hopefully everybody checks in.

[Chara]

Anything specific you need to hear?

your targets.

[Chara]

I opened that spoiler against my better judgement and had prey spoiled for me so hard that I cant play it now

Heed the warnings of the spoiler my friends

i. did. also.
the game is already on its way to my local store, though.
so... i might still play it. why did i open that.

[Chara]

i'm on mobile and the spoiler warning text was just so teeny. i didn't see it.

[Chara]

Fish, that's such a weird reply to that. you don't have anything to say to his actual argument?

[Chara]

honestly i'm starting to come around on Fish scum.
i don't like implosion's list either.

skitter, do you know who you want Fish to target yet? i've been waiting on that because you keep hinting something.

[Chara]

he's voting you because your read on him changed in a way that doesn't really make sense to me.
you were convinced scum was in the neighbourhood, but now you aren't?

[Chara]

i really hate massclaim normally, but more and more i'm thinking about advocating for it given the claims we already have and that if we wait until LyLo, massclaim will be completely useless.

i don't think implosion using that cop shot (which i'm sure he got because skitter can verify it) in the way he did is AI, but it's good to know.

[Chara]

if i'm wrong on massclaim being a good idea here please somebody yell at me, but it's either massclaim now or massclaim in LyLo when it'll be far less useful (bordering on useless except to catch out lies).

[Chara]

i guess that assumes we mislynch today, which i would rather not do.
mcqueen and implosion are still my favourites for a lynvh that would flip scum.

i don't hate Fish's response, it's true that continuing to lynch within the hood hasn't exactly netted great returns, and if he was scared of being found out as the lone scum in there i don't think that fear would start

today

all of a sudden.
i'm also less confident in Percy town than i was. Almost is probably town, i don't see scum Almost getting partner implosion to cop inno him, and Almost's play has been consistent enough with town him. it's still a lean buy enough for me to PoE him out.

Elbirn makes me paranoid and so does Varsoon. but i think if Elbirn's scum he's doing a kickass job and there isn't any reason besides paranoia i have to scumread him. so he's town too.

skitter, i think you had something you wanted to say regarding my reads earlier?

[Chara]

i want to make Fish motivate somebody before we do anything. proving his role doesn't hurt anything, unless he motivates a scumbuddy.
i nominate skitter.

pedit: i do wonder why Percy never checked Fish.

[Chara]

i don't want to make this Percy vs. Fish. there's at

most

one scum in there.

there are two more scum elsewhere. if Almost, Elbirn, skitter, and myself are all town, that leaves Varsoon, mcqueen, and implosion with two scum in that group. for me that's just a better place to lynch.
if someone disagrees with my townpile i'll listen.

[Chara]

i don't think it's a good idea to make judgements about Percy's alignment based on setup spec when we don't have all of the information. the point about picking off members of the hood as scum, i do get. and i understand why Percy is scumreading Fish.

@Almost: not sure how Fish is mechanically confirmed town. i know you said it would be too swingy if he could motivate his partners permanently: we have no proof his motivate is permanent, just his word.

[Chara]

thinking about
mcqueen
implosion
Fish
Persivul
Varsoon
Elbirn
Almost50
Chara
skitter

if we did massclaim. those who have already claimed should just confirm that their claim is complete at their turn.

the reason is because if we hit scum today, great. then we could massclaim tomorrow. if we mislynch today, now it's LyLo and any important claims that crop up are not credible at all.

[Chara]

@chara i kinda want varsoon to be a couple of slots higher (maybe after implosion). and also elbirn maybe.

i'm also starting to get paranoid of you again

i'd be okay putting Fish/Percy after Varsoon.

Elbirn going down a bit is also fine.
would not be happy moving my spot. check your paranoia unless you have a reason to scumread me.

pedit: i agree implosion's handling of it was fine. i just don't find it AI.

[Chara]

i don't really see it. i think one of the easier tasks as scum is figuring out how town-you would respond to a gifted cop shot and then just executing that.
i'd want to see more of implosion's current reads in light of everything.

[Chara]

Hood scum's motivation now that it's down to two is to take the focus off the hood, and that's exactly what Fish is trying to do.

i disagree, all three scum are still alive. it's not the biggest loss for them if the hood scum is the one that goes down.

like i said, unless Elbirn/Almost/skitter/me has scum in it, lynching outside the hood is a better idea.

[Chara]

um, i care a lot. if he motivates scum that's bad.

[Chara]

3. Chara, who is your top scumread? And who are your top two townreads?

i posted a read list, what prompted you to ask me this specifically over anyone else?

[Chara]

I came around to an implosion scumread a while ago, really felt some shit chara(?) Was saying, never commented on it

i'm interested in finding out what you agreed with about implosion scum.

[Chara]

Zito was town, why is Elbirn yelling for the case on him scummy?

[Chara]

how do you know the fruit vendor is loyal?

[Chara]

Let alone I don't subscribe to his PoV of copping someone other than his main lynch target when we've been supposed to wake up to a MyLo situation (don't tell me the COP also knew the kill would fail).

this is also how i handle cop shots. investigate slots i find hard to read.

[Chara]

mcqueen's list of questions looks half-random and will continue to do so until he explains why he asked each of them. why no questions about Persivul?

[Chara]

so the fact that everyone (including the people in the poe like varsoon and persivul) think there's at least one scum in mcqueen/implosion is beginning to worry me

it doesn't worry me because they aren't actually being voted.

[Chara]

So, hm, actually, from Chara's POV, it makes plenty of sense because then they're almost guaranteed to hit scum outside of BEF/Percivul instead of a 50/50 considering that

exactly.

and yes i'm alive, hi. sorry about that. is it my turn to claim?

[Chara]

Fish/Percy is a bad dichotomy by pure numbers.
Fish needs to target skitter and stop stalling so we can at least confirm that.

[Chara]

Almost claimed to have used three actions when we've only had two nights, of course it was fake.

[Chara]

@Varsoon: I cannot be scum with not one but TWO investigative clears on me. Percy said he checked me on N1 and I'm not a Phantom (soft clear), and implosion said he checked me on N2 and I returned innocent. Actually, I still could be a Godfather, theoretically, but I also find it to be a stretch to assume my role returns innocent to all investigative abilities in the game.

Percy got a no result on you, not that you weren't a Phantom.
but implosion did claim an innocent on you.

[Chara]

i'm going to be busy most of the day. thinking about claiming before Almost because he's probably town and i'd rather not hold things up.

[Chara]

i mean, it was a giant claim where he'd apparently found the entire scumteam and was miraculously disloyal, and had a lie detector and had targeted three players but was still unsure of one being scum.
so yes, it wasn't even trying to be real.