Open 748: Jungle Republic - Over!

[GuiltyLion]

Bambi are you always an early game try hard

cause I'm always gonna scumread that

[GuiltyLion]

Oh GL is in this.

Rematch. You were a formidable opponent in our last and only game.

why are you assuming we're opponents again here?

(also for the record we've played two games, the open game where I caught ya D1 but then the mini micro with Redflavor and MathDino where you snowed me)

[GuiltyLion]

Honestly though I'm probably down to policy lynch a 4 headed hydra in the end lmao

[GuiltyLion]

Bambi I'm sorry for doubting you

[GuiltyLion]

No one's saying it's a reason to scumread

you're not really giving inspiring reasons to keep you around

[GuiltyLion]

I actually find some of the hydra's defense posts scummy in and of themselves. They seem overly focused on defending themselves, painting Bambi Jay as negatively as possible, and trying to catch Bambi Jay in some kind of "hypocrisy", yet they never actually feel like they're sorting Bambi Jay while doing so. arguing just to argue rather than pressure

[GuiltyLion]

highlighting the posts that stood out to me

OMGUS and lynching me cause I'm more than one!

That's #no-goood

already too defensive on the first page

AJ is scum. Get em outta here.

first the argument was "if they are scum they're too dangerous"
now it's suddenly "they are definitely scum"
how did that logic leap happen?

this feels to me like scum's way of discrediting. calling it a "logic leap" to paint Bambi negatively and asking a question that's meant to shade the push, instead of simply intuiting that Bambi might have seen the way you reacted as scummy. again, overdefensive

bambi let's discuss your not policy lynch
why are you saying its 50/50 when its not?

it's pretty obviously 50/50 from their hypothetical town!POV, this question serves no purpose other than to again discredit. Yes to a townie Bambi is not confirmed town, but obviously she's going to present as town regardless of her alignment. that's not something AI or worth posting about.

I'm sorry, I didn't realize you could quicklynch all on your own now? So far only you and GuiltyLion have expressed any interest whatsoever in lynching us. I highly doubt we get lynched, especially since our logic is flawless while you are over there getting an Olympic gold in mental gymnastics.

"Olympic gold in mental gymnastics" really? I find all their reasoning pretty straightforward. Hyperbole again with intent to discredit

we literally RVS'd you and now you're saying we chose the wrong slot to fuck with? overreact much?

Again, this is simply combative shade meant to muddy up the thread and protect themselves.

@hydra - Why do you think Bambi is scum, or if you don't think Bambi is scum, why are you arguing with them in this manner?

[GuiltyLion]

Don't need to know who is talking to sort a hydra. It might help but you might be surprised to see that having no meta to fall back on gives you more objectivity.

BuJaber do you actually seriously believe this? Hydras are almost always harder for me to sort, especially when they're not sigging their posts. Any inconsistencies or questionable thought processes/pushes can be explained away by "hydra dissonance", and while there's a few town-indicative things that hydras uniquely can do, there's always a deeper level of paranoia about whether they're scum intentionally faking a hydra townslip. I really hate the practice of hydra-ing (outside of a mentor/mentee kind of learning hydra), it's cheating the game by giving multiple voices to one "player" in the game. And crafty/manipulative scum players will absolutely take advantage of the confusion created by doing so.

[GuiltyLion]

I've played with Bambi before. She has never been this anti-hydra.

this may be something worth looking into, can you refer me to a game you played with her where there was also a hydra in that game?

Also, she has been trying to get us lynched since page 1 with no reason. Also she has refused to answer question that we have posted and requested her response multiple times.

a) I'd push back on the claim there's "no reason" why she pushed you, but that's neither here nor there. more importantly,
b) why would that behavior be indicative of her being scum?

Our defensiveness maybe comes from the fact that we have literally been deathtunneled from the very beginning.

okay, I sort of implied this in 35 but I'm gonna be explicit now. Nobody wants to read pages on pages of you firing back at people who scumread you or push you and dragging them into semantic arguments, scumreading is a thing that happens in mafia and you need to be chill about it if you're town. instead you should productively help find scum - if you think that's Bambi, case it and explain why - or else you're going to stay in my lynchpool.

104 is not a bad point but I could honestly see that coming from either town or scum. I guess the larger thing I'm missing is why scum!Bambi would go through the effort of getting her hands dirty and championing a "deathtunnel" on town!you right from the get-go, especially given her argument that hydras are chaotic and generally bad for town in a vacuum.

[GuiltyLion]

Activity may be NAI but spamming the thread with this worthless unusable garbage is certainly anti town behavior. I want other people to give reads on this situation and both of you to chill out.

Obviously you subtract a Seer from the d1 lynchpool because we're not lynching a Seer claim

[GuiltyLion]

its not false if you follow the logic to the (should be natural and obvious) point of "if you claim seer we're not lynching you". That applies to literally any lynch today. this whole thing you're riffing on is utterly unimportant.

[GuiltyLion]

Dude (s).

The whole thing doesn't matter because if you (or anyone) claims Seer un-CC'd, we're not lynching that slot. Therefore, anyone we lynch today obviously did not claim Seer. Therefore, to every non-Seer townie (and Bambi is claiming not to be Seer), the odds of a scum lynch are 5/(12-1[yourself]-1[Seer]) = 5/10 = 50%.

SETTLED.

What's your read on BuJaber

[GuiltyLion]

It's just that where Guilty says things like 'calling it a "logic leap" to paint Bambi negatively' and 'I find all their [Bambi's] reasoning pretty straightforward.' I feel like he's trying to either defend a scumbuddy or to get on your good side. I'm not really seeing the town motivation for that.

I was/am pushing back on the hydra's Bambi scumread to figure out whether it's a genuine scumread or a reactionary OMGUS, because I'm townreading Bambi. Why don't you see that as town motivated?

And am I wrong about the fact that the hydra was explicitly trying to make Bambi look bad? Like do you actually disagree with the points that I made?

I think BuJaber is town, Bambi is town. Not sure what to make of the hydra slot, a couple of their posts did feel vaguely townie and I like that they were townreading BuJaber as well. At the same time the fact that their two scumreads are the two people who applied pressure to them is pretty lazy

[GuiltyLion]

The more I think about it the more I think calling it "an indirect defense of Bambi more than a scum case" is bullshit. It's a case centered on the premise that the hydra's push on Bambi was done for self-serving purposes of discrediting/hyperbolizing rather than genuine town sorting. Yes in effect that works out to

also

be an indirect defense of Bambi, but the main point was clearly that the hydra's push itself was under scrutiny.

I don't see how you can honestly interpret that as *not* a scumcase. Fabricated scumreads, or scumreads out of an agenda, are scummy behavior. Thats the key point I was making with my 99 100 . I happen to think Bambi' s town here, but even if I didn't, the logic of that post would still apply.

[GuiltyLion]

- It simply hadn't occurred to me that that might have been what you were aiming to achieve. Is THAT something I could see as town-motivated? Of course. But did I realise that you might be doing it? Obviously not.

Aight, this is fair.

- I can see that ajfe were criticising Bambi's thought process, but it doesn't read to me like their primary purpose was just to shade her, but rather to try and make her reconsider her stance on them.

I can definitely see the latter as well, I guess we had different interpretations what the "primary" purpose was. Even the latter is still vaguely scummy to me though as town

should

be less concerned with being townread and arguing against scumreads on their slots. However a lot of town players are way too over-defensive in this way, which is why I tried a reach out in 105

how do you feel about Clemency? I'm not at all impressed with his ISO so far and I agree the "they're both scum" post was empty posting.

[GuiltyLion]

I decided not to interfere in that stupid hydra discussion. Entirely pointless.

Guilty is overexplaining everything.

Bambi is town, hydra IDK. I'm going to find that difficult if they don't sign their posts. Particularly when 3 or 4 of them are attacking Bambi at once.

VOTE: Guiltylion

bolded/red = everything I've been saying so far this game. You agree entirely with my takes, yet you think I'm scum because I'm "overexplaining" them?

[GuiltyLion]

VOTE: Clemency

choo choo

[GuiltyLion]

this game should not be this slow on D1 with this many people

I don't agree with rosterfoster (since I was pushing back on Egix when analyzing myself and my own posts) but I don't see it as productive to push further and I can also loosely see how a town!him would read it that way, so I'm waiting to see how he engages with other slots. not sure what else there is to do right now until other players jump in.

[GuiltyLion]

you all could vote Clem, just throwing that idea out there

[GuiltyLion]

like seriously i could see them deciding to bus one-another

this is also meant to be "clearly" a joke post?

[GuiltyLion]

Is the case on clem that he said "both are scum"?

I would say it's a bit more than that, yeah "both are scum" was an empty shit post but it's emblematic of the larger pattern of him being active and posting in the thread but not actually doing anything at all to sort or pressure anybody. no reason to townread that and in a game like this with more scum than normal he's a good vote/wagon

[GuiltyLion]

controversial opinion time: the game is dead because most of you tried to replace RVS with pre-game antics, which isn't reliable and shouldn't be the basis for reads

nah, it's simpler than that

a few players haven't posted and need to be replaced + scum don't have incentive to solve and don't generally want to post and take the lead, there's more scum than normal therefore there's more lurking than normal

[GuiltyLion]

mcqueen is there a clear delineation in your mind of where pregame ended and where the game started? Where did you start reading?

I assumed there was some motivation behind your clemency vote based on stuff he had posted (including pregame), was that wrong?

[GuiltyLion]

omg a Calvin!! and he's posting good content!!!!

hello again Vedith, always love to see you show up uninvited to my games

also I just watched One-Punch Man last summer so I now recognize this avi

[GuiltyLion]

This whole post just screams forced to me... doesn't help that you basically copied my reason for RVS-voting GL.

I find it odd that you don't seem to know the accepted site meta for roleclaiming...

why not look at some of Vedith's past completed games (he's got pages of them) to see whether he's really a newbie

part of me wants to say that's scum taking the bait and jumping at low hanging fruit, but on the other hand it's somewhat reckless to make these kinds of assertions/reactions as scum without doing even any cursory research at all into Vedith's history as a player

[GuiltyLion]

gonna reread the last few pages and see what stands out, I've been loosely reading along the past couple of days but haven't felt a strong inclination to do something, and the wagon on Clem is still good

[GuiltyLion]

controversial opinion time: the game is dead because most of you tried to replace RVS with pre-game antics, which isn't reliable and shouldn't be the basis for reads

gohs dang this post is worthlesss
VOTE: mcqueen

this was a good vote btw and makes me more slightly more inclined to townread the hydra

[GuiltyLion]

I concede that there was/is more support for the PL than I would have expected. And that speaks more about the people willing to vote there than it does about Bambi.

BuJaber can you go into detail on this

who were those people and what their support said to you about them

I might be nitpicking but I feel like this was an odd comment given that my memory of the game and a review of your ISO says you didn't really seem concerned with people supporting the PL prior to this

[GuiltyLion]

I think GL rolled Scum btw.

you always think that

[GuiltyLion]

Prodging - I'll post more tonight. I was getting some bad feels off Auro though.

didn't happen

and "bad feels" off Auro is ludicrous... so ludicrous I'm not even sure that it's scum?

[GuiltyLion]

@Vedith -

Idk what to do with this game. Auro town, Vedith town. BuJ I was town on but he's a little questionable still, though not so much as to make me want to flip him yet. Hydra could be scum but a few of their posts have felt townie enough that I don't want to lynch for now either. Bambi Jay fell off the face of the earth after their pregame fight with the hydra. Egix I could really go either way. and everyone else isn't trying to be town at all. Normally I have too many townreads but townreads are a scarce commodity in this game it seems

[GuiltyLion]

Unfortantely Applejack collective had the same idea to shut up after the pressure was off of them.

this seems an unfair characterization, they've done more engaging with other players than you have the past couple of days/pages

[GuiltyLion]

why is it stupid to hammer Clem here

[GuiltyLion]

you literally refused to play and refused to replace out, that will get you lynched every time

[GuiltyLion]

I'm going to be more suspicious of anyone who wants to take the position that this lynch was not a good idea

[GuiltyLion]

why is it stupid to hammer Clem here

speaking of,
@Bambi

[GuiltyLion]

yeah Bambi may be scum

[GuiltyLion]

Because Applejack is a Werewolf, that's why.

honestly I'm tempted to even call this a straight up mafia!Bambi slip

[GuiltyLion]

wolves I say take a shot in {brassherald/foster/bambi} if they're not on your team and you're trying to thin down Mafia