Hate to break it to ya but people listen to me a fair amount and I'm the poster child for verbosity.In post 2, the worst wrote:I kinda think post/word count helps with being listened to
if you keep things pretty short sharp and shiny people tend to assume you know what you're talking about, whereas if you're more long worded people tend to be less likely to read it all
not saying I'm necessarily actually good at this ftr
How do you develop charisma?
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The way I play nowadays, I'm often aiming deliberately tonotbe charismatic--I don'twantpeople to follow me most of the time, because in spite of how hard I push my read, in spite of how many points I raise (and I wouldn't raise a point I didn't believe was a good one; every point I raise I feel is a valid one), I have doubts on whether my point (no matter how good the point may be) isright, and because of that, I have doubts as to whether my entire push is right.
I deliberately hide this, so it looks like I am pushing with absolute 100% certainty my target is scum, but it's a facade and underneath is the me that is less sure of the read. You can tell that these reads are less certain, because I am going out of my way to avoid trying to actually lynch my target; I will keep stating a person is scum, without really activating my charismatic side.
Because theactualkey to charisma, is to know your audience and write things as close to their perspective as is possible. Use THEIR reasoning, THEIR process, even if it is alien to you, even if it is foreign and seems wildly off-base to you, and turn it around. Find the weaknesses in their opposing viewpoint, not from YOUR view, but from THEIR view, point out THEIR narrative's contradictions: "Okay, so you think that X means Y for Z. Why not for A?" Get them to flesh out why point A applies for person B, but not C, and then make your argument for why point A isbetterapplied for person C, rather than person B.
In other words, you don't get progress by telling them their points are wrong; their reads are wrong. You get progress by telling them their points are right, but being misapplied; you get progress by telling them their reads are mostly right, but they went off-base when they made this mistake here, and you guide them through THEIR logic, THEIR reasoning, as to where they went wrong--not your own.
And you do this for every player you try to convince, while adding in your own thoughts as is necessary, but your own thoughts aren't so much for convincing others you're right so much as they are to convince others that you have a genuinely unique, original perspective with a town origin. (In other words, showing your own thoughts is a good way to be open, sincere, genuine, enough to earn a townread and become obvtown; it is not part of becoming charismatic.)
It's a hell of a lot of effort though, and it requires a specific tone.
Accusing them? Backfires.
Insulting them? Backfires.
You have to be nice, gentle, kind, like a teacher, guiding students through their work. Put yourself into that role, of someone who is trying to teach people not by telling them the answers, but by letting them find the answers on their own, because answers found on their own stick much better and longer than answers you just hand them out.
Like I said, most of the time I don't bother, but the rare times I do, this is the process I use and I can tell you it works.- mastina
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What about what I said was complicated? It's a ridiculously simple process--it's just one that often takes effort, and which isn't inherently desirable at all times. (IfIn post 17, Persivul wrote:@mastina: no, it's not that complicated.youaren't confident in a read, it's impossible to be charismatic about that read.)- mastina
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And Firebringer one-upped me and said what I said only in much, much better detail, basically. Go listen to what he said!In post 12, Ankamius wrote:Mastina basically said what I wanted to say but a lot better than the mess I posted instead- mastina
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It doesn't need to be tailored to each and every single player; one pitch can work for 3-4 players, and then a separate pitch for a different 3-4 players. Obviously, the more specific the pitch, the more it will convince the player it is specific to, but it need not be "one pitch, one person".In post 57, Persivul wrote:
Assessing what's likely to persuade each person you need on the wagon, and then tailoring an individual pitch to each one of them. That's pretty complicated, and it's not necessary.In post 42, mastina wrote:What about what I said was complicated?
It justcan'tbe "one pitch,everyperson", because there is no universal pitch which will get you followers regardless of posting style. It takes 2-3 different ones, minimum, barring playerlist conformity. (Obviously, if the playerlist is filled to the brim with likeminded players, then one pitch tailored to them will work for them all, but in most playerlists lacking said conformity...)- mastina
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This is honestly something not so surprising when you think about it. Likeminded players tend to intuitively understand likeminded players--they can not only work with said likeminded players, but in my experience, are also more likely to get accurate reads on said likeminded players. (My go-to example, Ginngie's playstyle has diverged from mine somewhat but still is similar enough to mine where I have soulread her.)In post 78, mastina wrote:
It doesn't need to be tailored to each and every single player; one pitch can work for 3-4 players, and then a separate pitch for a different 3-4 players. Obviously, the more specific the pitch, the more it will convince the player it is specific to, but it need not be "one pitch, one person".In post 57, Persivul wrote:
Assessing what's likely to persuade each person you need on the wagon, and then tailoring an individual pitch to each one of them. That's pretty complicated, and it's not necessary.In post 42, mastina wrote:What about what I said was complicated?
It justcan'tbe "one pitch,everyperson", because there is no universal pitch which will get you followers regardless of posting style. It takes 2-3 different ones, minimum, barring playerlist conformity. (Obviously, if the playerlist is filled to the brim with likeminded players, then one pitch tailored to them will work for them all, but in most playerlists lacking said conformity...)
Which makes sense--if someone thinks similarly to you, then you can tell when something is "off" on their thought process, and you can also tell when they are onto something with their points, because their points will resonate with you.
So to be charismatic, what you need is not only to gather likeminded individuals, but also people who have that foreign thought process--and to do that, you need to put yourself in their shoes and become likeminded to them, even when you normally wouldn't be.- mastina
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Can vouch for that.In post 110, Ankamius wrote:Actually I am pretty certain that most of the town wins I've seen that weren't complete flukes were because town was finding each other as town more than people just having correct scumreads.
Finding town > finding scum, 100% of the time.
Find town, defend town, and scum run out of options.- mastina
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I wouldn't say they don't matter--but I would say that they are less important. There's a lot which I'd prioritize higher than scumreads on D1, but I wouldn't callously discard them as important altogether. D1 is setting the groundwork for the rest of the game, after all, and part of the gameIn post 124, Ankamius wrote:scumreads don't matter d1isgetting scumreads. It's just that no matter how important it may be to get scumreads, on D1 it's notthemost important thing. - mastina
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