Newbie 1916: Epic Music [Game Over!]

[roomy]

I think you might have misread me -- my earlier posts were reminding people that scum can play

well

. I saw comments to the effect that "scum will post reads not backed up by evidence," and while that might be true in a newbie game, it's a double-edged sword; more experienced scum can easily post reads backed up by evidence towards convenient town targets, which are much more prevalent in newbie games, and that's something we should be aware of too.

I do see where you're coming from re: it being preferable to discuss this in a more defined context, but I want to be clear that I wasn't making those statements out of nowhere.

[u r a person 2]

we're on the same page. that post should have said that town can play poorly, not scum.

[Frozen Angel]

Vote Count 1.6

TemporalLich (3): teacher, Skellen, u r a person 2

[L-2]
CatStar (2): Birdy, TemporalLich [L-3]
Birdy (1): CatStar
Skellen (1): Emperor flippyNips

Not Voting (2): Clemency, roomy

With 9 players alive it takes 5 votes to lynch.

Day 1 ends in (expired on 2019-02-18 11:05:00)

Spoiler: Vote Change Tracker/Vote Links Day 1

teacher -> Clemency, TemporalLich
CatStar -> Birdy
u r a person 2 -> CatStar, TemporalLich
roomy -> u r a person 2,

Unvote

, TemporalLich,

Unvote

Emperor flippyNips -> Skellen
TemporalLich -> roomy,

Unvote

, CatStar
Skellen -> CatStar,

Unvote

, TemporalLich
Birdy -> CatStar

Spoiler: Wagon Change Tracker Day 1

TemporalLich (3+0):

roomy

, teacher, Skellen, u r a person 2
CatStar (3-1):

u r a person 2

,

Skellen

, Birdy, TemporalLich
Birdy (1): CatStar
Skellen (1): Emperor flippyNips
roomy (0):

TemporalLich

u r a person 2 (0):

roomy

Clemency (0):

teacher

Note: Birdy is prodded. They have 24 hours till (expired on 2019-02-14 16:00:00) to respond to this prod.

[u r a person 2]

@roomy actually, your play is pretty darn good if coming from first time scum in their first forum game

have you read previous games on this forum or any of the scum play articles?

[Emperor flippyNips]

@person welcome welcome & in regards to lich I think he’s most likely scum, a lot of the stuff he’s said is confusing and oxymoronic.

As for skellen pretty townie vibes UNVOTE:
Same for teacher although I did like when roomy pointed out he was basically apply pressure to apply pressure for appearance. That being said I still think teacher is town
I don’t have reads really on anyone else yet
I kinda just did a skim and will be going back for anything I could of missed later.

[Emperor flippyNips]

UNVOTE: TemporalLich

not ready for a hammer tbh

this is the scummiest slot to me

VOTE: temporalich
L-1

[roomy]

@person: I've read a lot of previous games on this forum, actually. great entertainment for me but I was too IRL busy to ever feel like I could adequately participate. circumstances changed and here I am

like you pointed out, I read a lot of mastin articles too. some of them were more directly focused on scum play, but I feel like her writings are mostly on topics that apply to both alignments abstractly; the interactivity tell article I talked about earlier is a good example. they're tools for town and things to watch for in your own play as scum.

@nips:

VOTE: Emperor flippyNips

can you explain your lich read/vote in more detail? what of the stuff he's said have you particularly had a problem with?
also interesting to me that of your descriptions of your town play / scum play in #31 you are playing exactly to your self-described scum meta. in fact, you haven't asked anyone a question at all this game !

[u r a person 2]

I think it's probably fair to give roomy a town read at this point. There is no scum play article by teacher. I'm having a hard time believing scum!roomy doesn't go looking for it

and im having a hard time believing scum!roomy doesn't say anything about not being able to find it given two opportunities.

could be a false positive but like.... it's probably not

one exception would be if roomy and teacher are both scum together, but given my town read on teacher, seems pretty unlikely.

@roomy are you town reading Lich? Or just not ready for the day to be over?

[teacher]

I’m driving but VOTE: unvote

[roomy]

tbh @person I thought you were just referencing the big list of "how to play well" articles teacher posted in his IC intro, which have plenty of good scumplay articles, but anyways.

to your question, mostly the latter; definitely would not say I have a town read on Lich. I'm mostly confused; I can easily see Lich's play coming from town not prepared for strong early-game pressure, but almost nothing about his play gives me town vibes. maybe that in itself gives me town vibes, weirdly? like I said, confused. I do think lynching him at this point would be a big mistake; some slots have barely posted (*cough* Birdy *cough*), some people are still voting for their RVS pick (*cough* CatStar *cough*), and while I'm not necessarily uncomfortable with the prospect I would prefer to wait for more people to chime in.

but flippyNips talking plenty about how he's going to catch up with the thread and then coming through with a superficial, bland, and unprovocative recap post where he jumps on the biggest and most obvious wagon after describing his scum playstyle as being wagon-based is certainly ticking a lot of suspicious boxes for me.

[Emperor flippyNips]

@nips:

VOTE: Emperor flippyNips

can you explain your lich read/vote in more detail? what of the stuff he's said have you particularly had a problem with?
also interesting to me that of your descriptions of your town play / scum play in #31 you are playing exactly to your self-described scum meta. in fact, you haven't asked anyone a question at all this game !

Lich stood out to me on my read thru, going back on skellen being town randomly when she’s townier than teacher doing things at random seemingly to cos confusion it doesn’t feel like he really cares where his vote is as long as he’s got one. Out of nowhere saying catstar is the scummies slot. He sticks out like a sore thumb to me

Well everyone’s basically doing their meta unless they don’t know yet cos they’re new & didn’t say.

[Emperor flippyNips]

but flippyNips talking plenty about how he's going to catch up with the thread and then coming through with a superficial, bland, and unprovocative recap post where he jumps on the biggest and most obvious wagon after describing his scum playstyle as being wagon-based is certainly ticking a lot of suspicious boxes for me.

Like I said earlier I did a skim of the thread, so I summed up my thoughts. I’m gonna go thru again later when I’m not as spacey

[u r a person 2]

I've only played one game with emp, and he was scum. He is definitely more content rich this game (which says something about his play last game ;p )

but this could very well be the next step in the evolution of scum!emp.

@roomy I thought I was clear, but I guess I'll have to do a better job of setting it up next time. rip

[u r a person 2]

I’m driving but VOTE: unvote

I was wondering why you hadn't unvoted after your post earlier. I've seen how strong of a scum hunter you are. Where are you getting town!Lich from?

[teacher]

I’m not. It’s too early for a lynch generally, and I want time. I haven’t posted content because I’m mobile during the day. Fat fingers little screen. More in appr 3/4

[TemporalLich]

I'm inclined to believe person is town despite the instant vote against me.

His entrance shows initiative and he analyzes everyone.

I think it's probably fair to give roomy a town read at this point. There is no scum play article by teacher. I'm having a hard time believing scum!roomy doesn't go looking for it

and im having a hard time believing scum!roomy doesn't say anything about not being able to find it given two opportunities.

could be a false positive but like.... it's probably not

one exception would be if roomy and teacher are both scum together, but given my town read on teacher, seems pretty unlikely.

@roomy are you town reading Lich? Or just not ready for the day to be over?

I'm inclined to believe you, and yeah scum roomy and teacher is not likely.

Teacher almost hits the "probably town" zone of being townie.

[u r a person 2]

@TL have you read 159?

[Skellen]

Uwah... have to miss out for one day once and then we get a replacement and so much new stuff to catch up. A warm welcome for urap. It's late and I am sleepy, try to cover what I can.

I don't get the logic behind your vote. Seems reactionary to me. This is consistent considering you're a No Result.

Of course you don't get it and it comes surprising for you if you apparently don't bother to read what I wrote. I wrote in like 3-4 posts what bothered me about you. CatStar called you already out on that and I don't like to parrot myself. That aside the chaotic neutral/evil thing wasn't a question it's where I see you. In the beginning I was inclined to lean on a struggling newbie but as your posts got worse, especially once you got pressured more, I am more leaning on scum for you. The point is I simply can't see a town agenda behind you. You don't give me the impression you are trying to win for town, you never act or persuade any cases on your own, only react while being the most active lurker here and that mostly defensive. Even your vote was defensive. You are playing to survive not to catch the bad guys.
When I voted you up to L-2 one of my main intentions were to pressure you to come out of your shell. After all I asked you twice to show more initiative from your side. It's like Clem said somewhere in the beginning, people tend to show their true colors once the stakes get raised when they are put on L-2/L-1. And guess who instantly voted with CatStar exactly the person who was next to him in the votecount (and declared her as his scumread before). It's especially questionable considering that you accused her of active lurking while there were people like flippy and Birdy who even contributed less and dodged being replaced with small posts. What's your thoughts on them? What makes them less suspicious in your eyes?

If Skellen's read were to deresolve it would most likely become scum, not town.

It doesn't help that you continue to be vague like this in your posts that give me the impression you are trying to avoid confrontation. "If, were, would" Either you see me as neutral/no result/banana/whatever or scum, I can deal with both, but saying if you would deresolve your neutral read I would be scum makes no sense.

[Skellen]

@skellen: I see your point about seeing scum partners as a bit wifom at this point, but based on interactions thus far who could you see being buddies with TL?

Not sure why you ask that considering I basically implied that in my post you are referring to with mentioning a certain group. After all most of his interactions are with players who are scumreading him (early). It's more a possibility why scum!Lich would run wild as he did so far. He hasn't flipped yet though, so looking for his buddies has no point.

[Skellen]

To the extent it helps, I was only ever going to RVS Clem once I saw the playerlist. A vote on Flippy would produce data, so I wanted to save any vote on him for when it would have meaning. I didnt vote him when I put up 36 because I wanted him to react to the question without additional pressure. Does that resolve it?

Yes, that's enough. That was what I was looking for, although at this point it just confirms the positive impression I have formed up in our exchange.

[Skellen]

Paranoia about teacher is pretty meh tho. Teacher feels to me like the type of player one should just allow to be obv!town until he's eloquently pushing a bad argument. I haven't read any of his scum games, but his play is too effortful to replicate as scum without making some ill-considered arguments along the way.

I disagree, especially regarding stronger players like teacher it's the more important to get a grip on them and an understanding how they think soon enough to test out if the effort behind the play really is just a replica. Otherwise it will just push eventual problems back to later days, at worst lylo situations. Although this might be one of these experience things.

While you voted Lich up to L-1 temporarily so I wonder what gives you confidence in your vote? You just said his slot is the scummiest. It interests me mostly because of the doubts some of us have that he is in the end just a loose newbtownie.

[Skellen]

Yeah no, that's the end for me. Too sleepy~. Will save my questions for flippy for tomorrow when he has posted more.

Considering that Birdy is most likely about to get replaced we should avoid the hammer until we have heard from said replacement.

Also I would like to hear from CatStar who she is scumreading or scmleaning at least. Just realized we haven't heard anything in that direction from here yet besides the small roomy suspicion that she dismissed quickly.

[u r a person 2]

I removed my RVS vote for safety, don't wish to be on a town's wagon

You hit it on the head with your read that he's trying to avoid confrontation. I don't like how he's apologizing for things like his read changes. It feels like he doesn't actually care where his reads are, and is just trying to escape an argument. The whole early game feels nervous, too with a touch of lamist (like unvoting for safety, =/ )

I'm trying to engage with TL as we speak, though, so I don't want to get deep in the weeds on this rn

[TemporalLich]

I removed my RVS vote for safety, don't wish to be on a town's wagon

You hit it on the head with your read that he's trying to avoid confrontation. I don't like how he's apologizing for things like his read changes. It feels like he doesn't actually care where his reads are, and is just trying to escape an argument. The whole early game feels nervous, too with a touch of lamist (like unvoting for safety, =/ )

I'm trying to engage with TL as we speak, though, so I don't want to get deep in the weeds on this rn

well if scum wins then the town wasn't good enough, we should try to avoid lynching PR's, otherwise we lose and the bad guys win.

TvT confrontations that drag out even though it's known to be TvT make scum win in the confusion.

I'm leaning toward a Skellen/CatStar scumteam

[u r a person 2]

@TL have you read 159?

Just in case you missed this