BooneyToonz Extravaganza: LAST NIGHT TOMORROW


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Post Post #8800 (ISO) » Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:55 pm

Post by Nev and Max »

Im glad we could argue each other into this corner.

Wanna do something productive with me instead?
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Post Post #8801 (ISO) » Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:56 pm

Post by PenguinPower »

If you want to lynch BEF...yes.
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Post Post #8802 (ISO) » Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:57 pm

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In post 8801, PenguinPower wrote:If you want to lynch BEF...yes.
Ok, lets play devils advocate. We lynch BEF and he flips town. Where do we go?
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Post Post #8803 (ISO) » Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:00 pm

Post by Nev and Max »

I just thought about this as well. Profii has said that he cant gain any more shots, his role doesnt work with the +1. BEF has said that if he could get a shot he could recharge.

So if this is a 1v1 between the two, BEF would be the less optimal choice because we would be potentially robbing ourselves of a role that can either do damage or draw the night kill.
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Post Post #8804 (ISO) » Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:01 pm

Post by Nev and Max »

If we lynch BEF and it ends up being profii we just did scums job for them by lynching a town PR.
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Post Post #8805 (ISO) » Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:02 pm

Post by Nev and Max »

And if profii flips town, we power lynch BEF the next day, same way we would profii if BEF flipped town today.
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Post Post #8806 (ISO) » Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:03 pm

Post by PenguinPower »

In post 8802, Nev and Max wrote:
In post 8801, PenguinPower wrote:If you want to lynch BEF...yes.
Ok, lets play devils advocate. We lynch BEF and he flips town. Where do we go?
The rest of the slots need to claim if variant. If not, then profii because there can only be three variant roles and a town!BEF flip and my clear on DrewVa mean that the only explanation for TLK getting the sticky fruit is that profii lied about sending it to me and sent it to TLK instead.

I don't see why scum!profii loyalizes me and then lies about making Creature loud and sending me sticky fruit, but that would be the only explanation.
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Post Post #8807 (ISO) » Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:04 pm

Post by Jingle »

Glad that everyone else has gotten to the same place as me.

VOTE: End Day
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Post Post #8808 (ISO) » Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:06 pm

Post by PenguinPower »

Doesn't seem like everyone else has?
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Post Post #8809 (ISO) » Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:08 pm

Post by DrewVa »

In post 8807, Jingle wrote:Glad that everyone else has gotten to the same place as me.

VOTE: End Day
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Post Post #8810 (ISO) » Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:08 pm

Post by DrewVa »

I think he means the loud people have LOL

I still want Creature to confirm he didn't get the f'n loud n2


I don't want to drop any more wallposts in thread until I get that

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Post Post #8811 (ISO) » Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:09 pm

Post by DrewVa »

In post 8783, Creature wrote:
In post 8778, Creature wrote:
In post 8614, DrewVa wrote:@Creature you still need to confirm you got loud n2
I feel like I did get, but I can't find it in a PM or in the confessional and mod didn't confirm anything.
Welp, I don't have the loud modifier.
@DVa, aren’t you mixing up Creature with Una? - who RCE claimed to be a vanilla?
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Post Post #8812 (ISO) » Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:10 pm

Post by DrewVa »

oh fuck how'd I miss that

so yeah this is a true 1v1, and profii was probably jailed by S_S

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Post Post #8813 (ISO) » Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:11 pm

Post by DrewVa »

In post 8784, Nev and Max wrote:
In post 8777, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:
In post 8773, Nev and Max wrote:
In post 8751, DrewVa wrote:
In post 8706, Nev and Max wrote:And your chain of events makes things look worse for you, because you were the one who prompted tlk to out his gift.
How so? If anything it helps confitown Penguin because he was obviously trying to alignment cop TLK and had TLK not received the stickyfruit, Penguin would have both prevented TLK mislynch and town!McQueen death.
And I can come up with a story explaining my theory as well. Neither of us have any proof to support our claims, and we each see merit in our own version of events. Im not going to get into a wall off trying to prove my point, because I cant.

I can point out that if we are 1v1 Bef v Profii i need someone to explain why scumBEF gives the sticky fruit to town!profii night 1?
Good point but why does scum!Prof give sticky fruit to town!TLK?

Profil claims to have given loyal to Penguin and he used loyal on us with the hood, doesn’t that town confirm Profil? Well obviously it would to us, since we obviously know our alignment.

Also something to consider, do you really think scum would have a public activate role?
Well, isnt the story that profii sent the fruit to the same person he made loyal? So Prof would have sent the fruit to PP. PP sent regular fruit to tlk. TLK ended up with the sticky which would have made him ascetic, and would have been the reason PPs regular fruit failed.

So the question is
how
did the fruit get from prof to tlk?
But Penguin got his loud and used it on us, that’s how he knows we’re town. I still have no explanation for the sticky thing.
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Post Post #8814 (ISO) » Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:12 pm

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In post 8811, DrewVa wrote:@DVa, aren’t you mixing up Creature with Una? - who RCE claimed to be a vanilla?
no, Nancy, profii claims to have given Creature the loud modifier n2, the same time that he was vending the sticky fruit to penguinpower. That both actions fails confirms that from Profii's point of view, he was in fact roleblocked (jailed) n2, which suggests that from a profii point of view the likelihood that BEF is actually scum here is very high

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Post Post #8815 (ISO) » Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:12 pm

Post by DrewVa »

In post 8813, DrewVa wrote:But Penguin got his loud and used it on us,
Nancy, Penguin got his loyal, not his loud, try not to mix up the modifiers, this is confusing enough for everyone already

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Post Post #8816 (ISO) » Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:13 pm

Post by PenguinPower »

In post 8811, DrewVa wrote:@DVa, aren’t you mixing up Creature with Una? - who RCE claimed to be a vanilla?
Profii sent loud to Creature, ascetic to Una.
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Post Post #8817 (ISO) » Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:20 pm

Post by DrewVa »

In post 8738, DrewVa wrote:, while sending the sticky fruit to TLK, thus generating a mechanical 1v1 between the supersaint and the variant role inventor.
in this theory, someone, probably S_S, came up with the idea to create a mechanical cross-claim between two town, by using the jailkeep to create wifom in addition to BEF's role, which here would presumably be an every-night sticky fruit vendor.

So BEF n1 -- fruits profii
BEF n2 -- fruit sTLK
BEF n3 -- Maybe Elsa (if Elsa is scum BP)?
BEF n4 -- maybe Jingle (if Jingle is not town commuter)?

like bearing in mind how many people have either acted like commuters, have some sort of ascetic modifier, or have had a wide range of actions fail on them, it is not impossible that a scum sticky fruit vendor has in fact been vending sticky fruit to scum.

This is the line of reasoning I believe that Jingle was following (which would imply perhaps that Jingle is actually a town commuter perhaps), that is, that scum sticky fruit vendor would make sense in a setup where there are so many loyalized actions, where players like Profii can create loyalized visitors, etc. etc. From a setup/design perspective, BEF's role sounds like a scum counter to Profii's role, although that in and of itself should not convince anyone, just something I noticed.

Additionally, there is an argument to be made that the sticky fruit vendor is at best a kind of town miller. It is a role that, unless modified with a pro-town modifier like loyal, is explicitly anti-utility, given town's need to create mechanical clears through loyal/disloyal actions.

When we are thinking about BEF's play, another question emerges: BEF says he vended to profii n1 because he was worried he would die and he wanted to use it. But, BEF had entered a boonus room where he saw that he could get a loyal modifier, potentially. This being the case, why would he not hold his sticky fruit shot and ask to be gifted a loyal modifier, which would in effect turn his negative utility action for town (vending sticky fruit) into a pro-town action?

So there is at least some merit to Jingle's argument that BEF may be a useful lynch to eliminate wifom regardless of role, ESPECIALLY if we do conclude that this is a true mechanical 1v1 between Profii and BEF. Given Creature's testimony that he has not been made loud, this reinforces the evidence pointing toward a true mechanical 1v1.

For BEF scum there are:
-Arguments from setup spec (sticky fruit vendor seems like a pro-scum role)
-Arguments from play (pushing the dayrep theory, although actually there was one little part of that I didn't hate, but he's way over-emphasized it)
-Arguments for eliminating wifom (if we are wrong, profii should be caught scum, and at least we would know there are not additional sticky fruit floating around the setup, eliminating the strength of our clears)

For BEF town though there are:
-Arguments from tone (his frustration with me in particular in certain respects could easily come from town)
-Arguments from motive (it's not clear why he claimed in the way he did today as scum; and if he did, it may have been a mistake)

vs.

For Profii scum there is:
-Arguments from presence (I feel like profii usually has a bit more presence in the thread as town)

For Profii town there is:
-Arguments from pro-town actions and attentiveness (Profii made PP loyal, because profii believed that PP was a fruit vendor. This suggests profii was actively thinking about how to use his role in a pro-town way from very early on in the game)
-Arguments from tone (Profii has seemed pretty genuinely confused by today's discussion)
-Arguments from point of view (Profii was aware that he could vend a sticky fruit and use a night action at the same time, which is not something I would have thought was possible, but is possible--him knowing this increases the plausibility at least that he did intend to actually send the sticky fruit to a different target than his night action)

Given I believe there are some arguments on each side, this also raises another question:
Should town resolve this 1v1 today? We have multiple loyal/disloyal actions, etc. And here we might consider Jingle's argument -- if we're wrong about BEF, we will have significantly more wifom in regard to proving night actions. Even a green flip on BEF as a mislynch is not explicitly bad for the town in terms of helping us solve the game and create the strongest pro-town endgame.

While N&M may not be keen on the idea, my preference would be for him to be leashed to PenguinPower, to ensure that Penguin gets his fruit off tonight and is alive tomorrow.

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Post Post #8818 (ISO) » Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:21 pm

Post by DrewVa »

Given all the available evidence, testimony, and the nature of the setup, I support a BEF lynch today.

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Post Post #8819 (ISO) » Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:38 pm

Post by Nev and Max »

In post 8806, PenguinPower wrote:
In post 8802, Nev and Max wrote:
In post 8801, PenguinPower wrote:If you want to lynch BEF...yes.
Ok, lets play devils advocate. We lynch BEF and he flips town. Where do we go?
The rest of the slots need to claim if variant. If not, then profii because there can only be three variant roles and a town!BEF flip and my clear on DrewVa mean that the only explanation for TLK getting the sticky fruit is that profii lied about sending it to me and sent it to TLK instead.

I don't see why scum!profii loyalizes me and then lies about making Creature loud and sending me sticky fruit, but that would be the only explanation.
If this is 1v1 then of course profii dies tomorrow...

I think there is ample reason to go for profii first though.
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Post Post #8820 (ISO) » Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:40 pm

Post by PenguinPower »

Then why did you even ask me that question?

And I disagree with Profii going first...perhaps you should read the reasoning as to why.
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Post Post #8821 (ISO) » Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:43 pm

Post by PenguinPower »

In post 8802, Nev and Max wrote:Ok, lets play devils advocate. We lynch BEF and he flips town. Where do we go?
In post 8806, PenguinPower wrote:If not, then profii
In post 8819, Nev and Max wrote:If this is 1v1 then of course profii dies tomorrow...

I think there is ample reason to go for profii first though.
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Post Post #8822 (ISO) » Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:50 pm

Post by Nev and Max »

In post 8817, DrewVa wrote:which here would presumably be an every-night sticky fruit vendor.
I stopped reading here.

BEF is not the lynch for today, profii is.

Profii has spent his shots and is in the 1v1.
BEF has the ability to be recharged.

The person with the most potential town benefit lives to see another day. Show me how im wrong.
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Post Post #8823 (ISO) » Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:52 pm

Post by Nev and Max »

In post 8821, PenguinPower wrote:
In post 8802, Nev and Max wrote:Ok, lets play devils advocate. We lynch BEF and he flips town. Where do we go?
In post 8806, PenguinPower wrote:If not, then profii
In post 8819, Nev and Max wrote:If this is 1v1 then of course profii dies tomorrow...

I think there is ample reason to go for profii first though.
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I wasnt sure youd actually say profii.
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Post Post #8824 (ISO) » Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:53 pm

Post by Nev and Max »

In post 8817, DrewVa wrote:BEF n3 -- Maybe Elsa (if Elsa is scum BP)?
BEF n4 -- maybe Jingle (if Jingle is not town commuter)?
Nothing to support either of these claims. Not sure why you are speculating on this aspect.
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