Booneytoonz IX - Under The Sea -- Game Over!

[Wisdom]

i dont think i said i wouldnt bus fire

[Wisdom]

also pink, the traitor theory means I am not really a rolecop so Creature would also be lying and also scum with me

[Wisdom]

because i didnt know what information he had and didnt want to out just to make him out it

~Near

[Wisdom]

ignore the near part

[Wisdom]

The Normal queue guidelines before the May 7, 2018 overhaul are the template, with special additions to permit more creative setup design.

does this mean traitor is unrecruitable then?

[Wisdom]

anyway you're reaching here
i dont make that sort of play

[Wisdom]

nancy dont be so absolute. creature is almost certainly scum here

[Wisdom]

all millers should claim asap - its like having a red cop result - it will prevent redundant checks and help the game

all millers must die before lylo. I don't care that includes me

as someone who always try to endgame and very rarely gets lynched and usually can carry scumteams to victory - I would never ever fake claim miller

about alchemist I don't know why would a scum them fake claim miller and I'm not sure if they are bold enough scum player to do that.

"all millers"

only she and alchemist have claimed at this point

could it be a slip she knows there are more?

[Wisdom]

nikk is not a real claim and she does not take it into account as evidenced here

Lynching someone who actually tries to claim Miller for towncred and to discredit the real one is a great deal.

but how are you sure there are not 2 millers in the game?

and how do you trust me this much to say he is discrediting me?

[Wisdom]

youre underestimating him

what has he done that he cant do as scum?

[Wisdom]

sigh

ignore meta for a second and look at the setup, can you?

kaito is not scum or at the very least not the only remaining scum given the claims

argue for jingle-scum if you want but not kaito

[Wisdom]

Why is Kaito town? I don’t see it.

for the nth time, scum don't just have an informed and two goons against all these prs.

even if you think it's kaito, tell me who the fourth is.

[Wisdom]

The Normal queue guidelines before the May 7, 2018 overhaul are the template, with special additions to permit more creative setup design.

does this mean traitor is unrecruitable then?

Recruitable traitor would be a variant role.

ie not in the game since the variants are maki and clem @nero

[Wisdom]

VOTE: Kaito

this is not happening today nancy. the sooner you understand it the better.

[Wisdom]

I think Kaito is probably scum here

No can do, scum roleblocker is probable

Wisdom roleblock can be explained by both Clem and Jingle’s role.

jingle's claimed role cant roleblock

[Wisdom]

The only ones who can be that are Pink and FA/Molla.

[Wisdom]

agreed, I think Pink is pretty town.

[Wisdom]

Im more leaning towards a Jingle lynch because he should have protected me from the rb and he didnt

[Wisdom]

Chara is playing conservative. I have issues reading him.

Pink keeps posting about maki vs me - and it started to feel like they are trying to pocket me

fire bringer is lost and null with no stance in game - pretty distant from anything that is happening in game.

If I was scum I would wish to be in his place here

.

Still unsure about kaito

Possible scumslip?

i dont get it

[Wisdom]

what is your opinion on jingle not saving me from the block

i dont believe youve commented on that

[Wisdom]

i quite doubt that because a) Clem was unlikely to have shots left on N4 and b) Jingle thinks highly of me and would choose me over Clem

[Wisdom]

Why not? There is only one boon bank role, if Jingle has it he can safely claim a boon bank role

[Wisdom]

Think about it. If Fire is informed about Millers, then they had that info for a reason and I know I’m town miller and Nero is confirmed.

As for this, we already went over it yesterday. Yes, the purpose of information is so one of them can fakeclaim a miller. That doesn't mean they actually did it. Gamma won't hold their hand and tell them "claim a miller".

[Wisdom]

Targeted Clem, reading up.

Why?

[Wisdom]

kaito is confirmed vanilla by my result

he can still be goon

[Wisdom]

Alchemist21 - Miller
Chara - Miller

Nero Cain - Miller

BBmolla - Miller
Nancy Drew 39 - Miller

Nikk - VT

Pink Ball - VT
Kaito Momota - VT or Goon

Elsa Jay - Goon

Firebringer - Informed Goon

Maki Harukawa - Desperate Neighborizer

Clemency - 2shot Multitasking Doctor/Roleblocker

Jingle - Willbooster

Wisdom - Rolecop
Creature - Backup Rolecop

@jingle

[Wisdom]

i doubt he had remaining shots in the first place

[Wisdom]

Roleblocker and doc on the same person is > than each separately.

They are separate.

[Wisdom]

reverse?

Can only hide behind people who would show up as "Aligned with the mafia." on cop reports. If I target someone who would show up as town I die

[Wisdom]

Wait, it's day 5? Why only 5 flips? Did clem out who he stopped/saved?

no

[Wisdom]

n3

[Wisdom]

so what is the setup in your opinion? informed goon + goon + ?

[Wisdom]

VOTE: jingle

[Wisdom]

the lynch was always between jingle and creature though

scum have a pr nancy

[Wisdom]

What was FB's information claim?

That there’s millers in the setup and FA ISO reads scummy to me. Gun to head, this isn’t town!FA we’re seeing here. If FA is traitor, it would make sense that wouldn’t find any associatives.

fa cant be a traitor because then she wouldnt know about the millers

[Wisdom]

i wont be listened to but jingle is scum enchantress and blocked me

that explains all

[Wisdom]

Why do I fakeclaim willbooster with as little information as I have?

Alternatively, how do I kill if I commuted?

boon bank roles are safe to claim since you have one

[Wisdom]

do you expect me to believe you just strongwilled clem based on something nero said without reading anything

on n4 of a game

as a strong town pr

[Wisdom]

gz nancy now you agree with your scumread on the same faulty logic

[Wisdom]

kaito what is the setup youre seeing here

[Wisdom]

everyone is claimed, he can fake anything he wants

[Wisdom]

so rolecop + backup rolecop + hider + doc/rb + willbooster vs 1 pr?

[Wisdom]

She wasn't a hider, she was a desperate neighborizor

still.

[Wisdom]

either jingle or creature is scum, there is no way around this.

[Wisdom]

what is your point, creature?

[Wisdom]

looks like i was wrong and kaito is scum together with either jingle or creature

[Wisdom]

i dont understand how creature/jingle isnt confscum to each other

how the fuck do we have both town against 1 fucking scum pr

[Wisdom]

He claimed his roleblock on me after he did so

After vedith died he probably used his second roleblock shot under the impression that there was 1 scum alive and now is the time to use it

His targeting was cringe worthy but here we are, with Wisdom roleblocked

so in your world clem blocked me, there is no scum rb, and scum only have goons and miller knowledge to fight an army of prs

ok

[Wisdom]

in order for clem to block me he would have to go through both n2 and n3 without using his block

we know he used both a block and a doc on n1 and that he used a doc on n3

so he would have to do absolutely nothing on n2

who the fuck does that when you can wake up dead having wasted the chance to use your powers

[Wisdom]

and that he used a doc on n3

or a block*

so even less chance to have a block on n4

[Wisdom]

yeah sorry for making sense creature i wont do it again

i will just blindly sheep whoever nancy meta reads instead

[Wisdom]

also kaito

you are of the opinion clem blocked me

but you are also of the opinion there is a town willbooster

why the fuck is there a town willbooster without a scum rb?

[Wisdom]

even more reason to use your shots if you are mislynchbait

[Wisdom]

yeah whatever

i am not voting outside jingle/creature

whoever doesnt see there has to be scum in there is delusional

[Wisdom]

I can see Jingle being scum and having a pretty shitty excuse to not willboost Wisdom, but I'll still assume the last scum is roleblocker or some kind.

jingle is the roleblocker. you quoted yourself. enchantress.

[Wisdom]

Why do we know for sure that there are 3 boon bank roles int he game?

there is 1 boon bank role. read the op.

[Wisdom]

no, he claimed willbooster. I am saying he is enchantress instead and fakeclaiming. what are you missing

[Wisdom]

Wis, why do I claim willbooster as scum?

what would you claim? the other boon bank roles dont make sense in this setup

[Wisdom]

because its a safe claim?

[Wisdom]

Could jingle be a symbiote that was forced to act as a balancing mechanism for 4 scum?

we dont have town killing roles

[Wisdom]

Molla give us your opinion on Creature, Jingle and the setup

[Wisdom]

Creature is likely scum backup RC designed to find the traitor.

Still surprised someone thinks scum backup rolecop for town rolecop would make sense.

Unless this setup is bastard, Creature can only backup the same alignment, so molla unvote Creature.

like nero quoted, it's normal to backup different alignment.

[Wisdom]

Creature is likely scum backup RC designed to find the traitor.

Still surprised someone thinks scum backup rolecop for town rolecop would make sense.

...that like literally makes the most sense

Scum can’t even begin to find their traitor until they possibly kill the rolecop

Scum should be unlikely to be able to find their traitor. Otherwise what’s the fun in that?

where are you getting traitor from

[Wisdom]

Didn’t I see a quote where Elsa mentioned a traitot

that was twilight trolling

[Wisdom]

therefore its normal nancy

[Wisdom]

That’s a universal backup it’s completely different

[Wisdom]

Creature claim

Backup rolecop

hence why I didn't doubt your claim at any moment specially when you got a weird PoE.

Why does scum!Creature claim this?

because its his actual role

[Wisdom]

Traitor thing makes sense

15p
Two scum are goon/informed
Town lots of power

Only way that balances is with a traitor

what about jingle enchantress + another goon

[Wisdom]

or scum.

[Wisdom]

nancy creature and jingle cant be both town in this setup. You need to understand this.

[Wisdom]

nancy creature and jingle cant be both town in this setup. You need to understand this.

How certain are you of molla/FA town?

Because I don’t believe Creature can be scum here. This is just totally out of his scumrange.

i dont care about what you think people's scumrange are

look at the setup

we dont have all these town roles

[Wisdom]

sigh i wanna cry we are going to repeat the same things forever

[Wisdom]

If 4 scum, Creat and I both have to be town.

because..?

[Wisdom]

rolecop + backup rolecop + maki + clem against 3 goons + enchantress

balanced enough

[Wisdom]

i nowhere said molla is town nancy. im saying there is no way jingle and creature are both town.

[Wisdom]

informed is not a pr. it's a modifier. they need prs.

[Wisdom]

dont see whats the issue with yours either; backup rolecop is another goon until i die, and willbooster actually has a use

[Wisdom]

scum jingle can block me though so fakeclaiming isnt an issue

[Wisdom]

since it seems scum were kind of encouraged to at least consider having somebody claim miller at the start with their informed role

why does that make the backup rolecop unlikely

[Wisdom]

scum backup rolecop*

[Wisdom]

Was Nero Cain cleared by something?

by me

[Wisdom]

thats his point, creature. the universal backup DOES backup same alignment

[Wisdom]

The biggest issue with balance I have is the 2.5 investigatives with a 2-shot doctor as well

That might necessitate 4 scum, 1 being a traitor, with this being a 15 player setup. Does that sound balanced?

yes but why traitor and not goon

[Wisdom]

sigh i wanna cry we are going to repeat the same things forever

Do normal scumhunting instead.

ok normal scumhunting;

jingle does not randomly target clem on a whim without reading. he's better.

[Wisdom]

Just wanted to remind you guys that Creature made a townbloc on D1 and he scumread sheep sincr a long time ago. Hopefully this helps to solve who is scum

why so passive

who do you think is scum

[Wisdom]

can you elaborate

[Wisdom]

you suggested. she didnt accept.

[Wisdom]

nah. probably did her own thing.

[Wisdom]

if kaito is a goon someone has to be a scum pr who blocks

ie jingle

[Wisdom]

no because in that case the willbooster is useless

[Wisdom]

no it isnt

scum have a rb whether its jingle or whether jingle is town and counters it

[Wisdom]

Then vote jingle nancy.

[Wisdom]

yeah yeah we get it. now vote jingle

[Wisdom]

jingle has 4 votes

dont remember how many to lynch

[Wisdom]

also nancy youre still in your own little world

as if you will ever die over me

[Wisdom]

VOTE: Jingle

i asked you to elaborate

[Wisdom]

if you want my opinion on who the goon is, pink ball currently is much more scummy than both molla and kaito

[Wisdom]

dont what the hell me

i want your opinion on the setup and who is scum and youre dodging

[Wisdom]

I talked about this, Wisdom. My gut says Creature for how he began posting this day, but my mind reminded me of how Creature was playing on D1 and it seems pretty obvious that he's town. He asks Alchemist about his townreads on a flipped scum and sheep, he doesn't include any of the flipped scums into his townpool and keeps saying sheep is scum.

ok, why is jingle scum?

[Wisdom]

. Maybe your theory about his role is right, but is too specific.

What other role can he be?

[Wisdom]

Creature has gotten 3/5 right so far, so I say we sheep HIM over Wisdom.

you are kidding me, right? I got Elsa AND Vedith lynched on my own.

[Wisdom]

so youre blindly sheeping me? why cant they both be town?

[Wisdom]

They can. I've been blindly sheeping you and I have been pretty explicit about that. Why are you concerned now?

molla and kaito have their own thoughts
you're just sheeping
if i turn out to be wrong youre the most likely to be scum profiting off my mistakes

[Wisdom]

If either Jingle/molla flip doesn’t end the game, it’s Kaito.

I think Kaito has way more scum equity than molla, fwiw.

But first you try to push obvtown Creature and pretty damn townie PB, so yes, lynching either of them, is going to lose us the game.

you're free to explain to me what role can Molla has that will balance the scumteam against all the town prs

[Wisdom]

because you're not providing your own thoughts

everyone else gave their thoughts about the setup and justified them (well except nancy who is just ignoring the setup and is stubbornly insisting on her soul reads)

youre just going "whatever its creature or jingle because people seem to think so"

[Wisdom]

If Jingle flips red, Kaito is definitely his partner.

and if he's green?

Let me guess, Molla/Kaito?

[Wisdom]

I want to lynch Creature now 'cause it feels like Wisdom is going to mislynch me tomorrow if Jingle flips green, and Wisdom/Creature was the remaining scum all along.

Ser why I follow you, Wisdom? Who is making more sense right now, you or me?

I would honestly prefer if you had such an opinion than being a sheep

Now I feel like I'm just going to be wrong and you're going to be scum

[Wisdom]

i dont want you to stop following me

i want you to explain to me in your own thoughts what gamestate you are seeing here and who is scum

you're still not doing that

[Wisdom]

Creature has gotten 3/5 right so far, so I say we sheep HIM over Wisdom.

you are kidding me, right? I got Elsa AND Vedith lynched on my own.

I also helped lynch them. Don't think you get all the credit.

sure there buddy

[Wisdom]

nancy if jingle flips town i beg you to listen to me and realize that kaito/molla doesnt make sense. I wont be around to knock sense into you and I am positive you will just keep following your reads without thinking. Even pb/molla is more likely if you want creature to absolutely be town.

[Wisdom]

If either Jingle/molla flip doesn’t end the game, it’s Kaito.

I think Kaito has way more scum equity than molla, fwiw.

But first you try to push obvtown Creature and pretty damn townie PB, so yes, lynching either of them, is going to lose us the game.

you're free to explain to me what role can Molla has that will balance the scumteam against all the town prs

Roleblocker does enough.

tbh if I went with the "town has too much power" argument I would've lost a bunch of town games (Mini 2053 included).

I'd say designing a setup that feels townsided so town starts mislynching PRs is a solid mod strategy.

funny how you're defending the "both creature/jingle town" narrative while voting jingle

almost like you know jingle is flipping town

[Wisdom]

nvm youre not voting him but your posts indicate you will, so it stands

[Wisdom]

BBmolla is a scum PR, can't confirm what 'cause I think Clem roleblocked you, but still could be a roleblocker since we have a claimed Willbooster. That's my take on the gamestate, and my other take is that Nancy, Creature and you are all town (and Nero obviously)

So you're basically agreeing with Creature that Molla being a roleblocker is enough to balance against all the other town prs?

[Wisdom]

ok.

VOTE: molla

lets have it your way.

[Wisdom]

i give up, lynch molla and then lose the game for all i care

i lynched two scum, i did enough

[Wisdom]

because you all agree its molla/kaito

[Wisdom]

Jingle didnt claim a variant, he claimed the boon bank role.

[Wisdom]

setup spec is not my good point. I've never designed or reviewed or otherwise participated in setup creating. I don't know why I am pretending to know better here, it's probably just ego. You all are probably right and it's Molla/Kaito.

[Wisdom]

nancy there is nothing that connects what you are quoting to Jingle. You don't make any sense.

[Wisdom]

he just said he supposedly had information that a certain role doesnt exist

How does that have to do anything with jingle?

[Wisdom]

Jingle cannot be traitor because he is the boon bank role.

Fire's post had nothing to do with Jingle.

Think before you post.

[Wisdom]

Jingle claimed Willibooster, right?

That’s probably the role scum!Fire got info on.

based on what?

you're seriously reaching. fire just added something to make his claim townier

[Wisdom]

like the setup is guaranteed to have a boon bank role. It would make no sense for fire to claim there isn't.

[Wisdom]

It also explains Elsa traitor WIFOM, because Elsa is a genius, who rightly realized that someone would probably figure this out, so he setup up Jingle/sheep as traitor. Damn! Elsa is brilliant.

no he didnt, nancy. cmon.

[Wisdom]

no they didnt you're lost in your moonlogic.

[Wisdom]

Fire just added some bullshit to make his claim more believable, nancy. He wasnt setting up anything.

Traitor talk was just wifom to confuse us.

Cmon these arent hard. You are reading way too much into simple things.

[Wisdom]

no nancy you are 100% wrong there. Fire was just adding some bs to his claim. He wasnt setting up anyone.

[Wisdom]

facepalm is right

[Wisdom]

just end the fucking day so i can die already

moonlogic is the thing i hate arguing against the most

[Wisdom]

No, I 100% believe that scum!Fire was either informed that a boon bank role, either did or didn’t exist.

nancy we are all informed a boon bank role exists. its in the setup.

[Wisdom]

also the lynch is molla. stop voting elsewhere and finish the day already.

[Wisdom]

fire was setting up nobody shut up already

[Wisdom]

because its molla/kaito

[Wisdom]

i nowhere tried to lynch creature and thats completely irrelevant anyway

[Wisdom]

you're living in your own little world

creature was never in danger, you smacked no sense into anyone, you have not said a single thing about a setup balance even at this point, and the only thing that changed my mind about jingle was creature and pink ball agreeing that the setup can still make sense with molla/kaito

and fire was absolutely not setting anything up, but thats obvious

[Wisdom]

no i havent died because the uncc'd doc is more town than me

we already went over this

[Wisdom]

irrelevant but this is why youre so annoying to deal with when im scum against you

i could set up everything perfectly and yet you will follow your own moonlogic and it will all be in vain

i still remember the frustration in that rc game

[Wisdom]

i would still be blocked so

[Wisdom]

isnt nero voting there too

[Wisdom]

it was a joke claim which he retracted soon

[Wisdom]

it wont really matter if we lynch rb or goon

im the only one with an active action and ill just be killed

[Wisdom]

Kaito is a confirmed vanilla

No scum PRs have flipped

That makes Kaito less likely to be a scum flip than everyone else

[Wisdom]

My flip advances us zero

Jingle argued about how my reasons for him being scum were not good with logic.
You are just saying "I am not scum" which everyone would say.
Try more.

[Wisdom]

yep scum never bus

im tired of having to say this to you

[Wisdom]

@elsa can you link me some past w games of yours

i could only find v games

probably not an elsa budsy

this is an actual argument for jingle town though and it factored in my changing my mind

[Wisdom]

actually millers dying before lylo is common meta in ms so thats not scummy.

[Wisdom]

the "all millers" part on the other hand is

[Wisdom]

when i poke a hole in your moonlogic it doesnt mean you are wrong

it means that even if you happen to be right, your logic is wrong.

[Wisdom]

on one hand i agree, on the other i havent seen the town FA i knew for years so idk if the change in style is actually indicative

[Wisdom]

i mean we already went over this some pages ago

[Wisdom]

what you actually need to do is to not read previous posts wanting them to make sense with a particular scenario you have in mind, because you can twist nearly everything into making sense with whatever you want. You are prone to doing this all the time.

@nancy

[Wisdom]

so you mean creature molla, not creature kaito

[Wisdom]

kaito

[Wisdom]

Claiming miller right off of page 1? Fun! I'm only going to take Frozen's Miller claim here seriously so Alchemist gets a vote for lying in page 1.

VOTE: Alchemist

Call me when scum don't try and discredit townies page 1. I want a harder game next time.

all millers should claim asap - its like having a red cop result - it will prevent redundant checks and help the game

all millers must die before lylo. I don't care that includes me

as someone who always try to endgame and very rarely gets lynched and usually can carry scumteams to victory - I would never ever fake claim miller

about alchemist I don't know why would a scum them fake claim miller and I'm not sure if they are bold enough scum player to do that.

I think it's actually not a scum slip. FA is answering to this Elsa post where he says he believes one claim but not the other. So FA says "all millers must claim" as in "one claim is not scummier than the other"

[Wisdom]

also another jingle town point that i didnt want to mention is that willbooster was recently made by gamma so it makes total sense hed test it out here

[Wisdom]

read and youll find out

its molla and kaito

[Wisdom]

and we're waiting on either you or creature to hammer

[Wisdom]

because its easier to read

[Wisdom]

Its like youre in a different game

ill be dead tomorrow and youre suggesting teams with me in them

also you say you think too much town power and you want to lynch the confirmed vanilla

[Wisdom]

and youre voting the only one who is confirmed not pr when its 200% certain scum have a pr

[Wisdom]

because

a) sheep and elsa had interactions that werent scum/scum

b) I liked Jingle's responses to my accusations

c) I believe Gamma is using a Willbooster since he designed the role recently and it makes sense hes testing it

d) Molla is scummier

[Wisdom]

and e) At least 1 townie finds the setup with Molla blocker and the 3 goons vs the rest town acceptable

[Wisdom]

cool see you in endgame

[Wisdom]

gg

happy cake nancy

[Wisdom]

like i said in dead pt, this setup was very townsided so i felt less good about winning it
still happy with my reads though