Large Shitshow, Setup TBD

Buki
Goon
 
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Post Post #625  (ISO)  » Sun Feb 17, 2019 10:53 pm

In post 613, implosion wrote:oh neat.

silly slaxx going into parole and screwing your future self.

yeah first I thought he might have been town for being picked by mafia patroler

but afterwards I read scum ISO and saw that they wanted the town patroler not to do anything n1

so I thought they would do a lol strategy of putting themselves there

but well, he was hammered even before I mentioned it

Jingle
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Post Post #626  (ISO)  » Sun Feb 17, 2019 10:53 pm

I would've no killed instead of hitting implo, regardless of whether I was on or off parole, FWIW.
"I know there are people in the world who do not love their fellow human beings, and I hate people like that!" - Tom Lehrer

Jingle
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Post Post #627  (ISO)  » Sun Feb 17, 2019 10:53 pm

In post 624, Invisibility wrote:what the heck why is BRVR in that list smh


:shifty:

I dunno what you're talking about.
"I know there are people in the world who do not love their fellow human beings, and I hate people like that!" - Tom Lehrer

Invisibility
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Post Post #628  (ISO)  » Sun Feb 17, 2019 10:53 pm

my EXPERT sleuthing has gone UNRECOGNIZED
"invisibility is actually braindead" -- RadiantCowbells

im a girl now

Slaxx
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Post Post #629  (ISO)  » Sun Feb 17, 2019 10:54 pm

I figured maybe an implo kill instead of junko would wifom people with the self vote

there was no way i went 1v1 with buki in lylo playing it safe

implosion
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Post Post #630  (ISO)  » Sun Feb 17, 2019 10:55 pm

setup seems maybe townsided as an open if it were run in an MS forum setting. In this setting we had a lot of help from people not understanding the setup/how role PMs were sent giving a bunch of free townreads and a free scum lynch, but it was still pretty easy even with all the town PRs dying early and vig shots not hitting and having an even number of vig shots (when the vig living long enough to shoot a third time would be optimal).

I think the idea is nice though. Maybe nerf the tracker or something, idk. Me thinking it might be townsided is because the parole mechanic is kinda useless early but really strong late.

Oh also i guess scum screwed up by not paroling people. Scum weren't supposed to kill after the nolynch, they were supposed to parole someone and NK and basically refuse to kill until the entire player list was on parole :P

Slaxx
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Post Post #631  (ISO)  » Sun Feb 17, 2019 10:56 pm

oh i didnt do that because I thought it was cheap

oops

Wisdom
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Post Post #632  (ISO)  » Sun Feb 17, 2019 10:56 pm


Jingle
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Post Post #633  (ISO)  » Sun Feb 17, 2019 10:56 pm

Yeah, I think you were screwed the moment PVT was put on parole.

No killing gives you a single day before you conftown half of the players, tho.

Not sure why you guys didn't parole someone that night too.
"I know there are people in the world who do not love their fellow human beings, and I hate people like that!" - Tom Lehrer

Krazy
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Post Post #634  (ISO)  » Sun Feb 17, 2019 10:56 pm

it was only a free scum lynch because my mason brother bussed me
vote conspiracy

implosion
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Post Post #635  (ISO)  » Sun Feb 17, 2019 10:57 pm

In post 626, Jingle wrote:I would've no killed instead of hitting implo, regardless of whether I was on or off parole, FWIW.

Killing me put it at 1/3 EV for scum. No-killing puts it at 6-player nightless effectively? kinda.

Slaxx
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Post Post #636  (ISO)  » Sun Feb 17, 2019 10:58 pm

I think maybe slightly townsided, vig gives more pro-town kills, parole officers are both maybe cancelling for the mechanics but the mechanic is overall townsided

So its like what

Goon x2 and Mafia Jailkeeper

Vs.

Tracker/Vig/Townsided mechanic?

Have we tried it with 13?

Enter
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Post Post #637  (ISO)  » Sun Feb 17, 2019 11:00 pm

In post 623, Slaxx wrote:I self parolled because thats jut who i am

I know

northsidegal
Best Mechanical Play/Excellent Moderation/Best Setup
 
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Post Post #638  (ISO)  » Sun Feb 17, 2019 11:00 pm

In post 630, implosion wrote:setup seems maybe townsided as an open if it were run in an MS forum setting. In this setting we had a lot of help from people not understanding the setup/how role PMs were sent giving a bunch of free townreads and a free scum lynch, but it was still pretty easy even with all the town PRs dying early and vig shots not hitting and having an even number of vig shots (when the vig living long enough to shoot a third time would be optimal).

I think the idea is nice though. Maybe nerf the tracker or something, idk. Me thinking it might be townsided is because the parole mechanic is kinda useless early but really strong late.

Oh also i guess scum screwed up by not paroling people. Scum weren't supposed to kill after the nolynch, they were supposed to parole someone and NK and basically refuse to kill until the entire player list was on parole :P

i do think that town was helped this game by the parole list remaining pretty small throughout the entire game. had it been larger i think it's almost certain that the information that won town this game wouldn't have been there. that's obviously something you can aim for specifically in a regular setting but i do feel it might be tougher

that being said, the tracker is definitely like the least-essential part of the setup and could easily be replaced with something else

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Post Post #639  (ISO)  » Sun Feb 17, 2019 11:00 pm

that's why i voted you

northsidegal
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Post Post #640  (ISO)  » Sun Feb 17, 2019 11:01 pm

town also was fortunate to not have the vig end up on parole, which royally screws things up

callforjudgement
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Post Post #641  (ISO)  » Mon Feb 18, 2019 12:51 am

In post 620, northsidegal wrote:nice game!

i'm happy with how the setup seemed to go, if anyone has any thoughts i'd love to hear them. i especially like how the early paroling of slaxx actually did end up being super relevant come the end of the game.

it also does actually look like the optimal strategy is to keep the parole list somewhat small. any thoughts on that / other strategy things? seems like implosion had some ideas

Scum performing the kill leaks information (about whether the killer was on the parole list or not), but it's not a lot of leaked information. Once scum is on the list, they should probably start using a killer who's on the list consistently starting from some random point in the game (to make it hard to work out when scum was added on the list).

The exception is when there's only one scum left, as you can pin down their parole status precisely. This is particularly harsh on scum if the last scum is off the parole list, as you can add players one at a time and catch the last scum when their kills start being paroled. As such, the game has some similar properties to White Flag (although smart scum can just stop killing when there's only one left to avoid confirming half the town as town).

There's some tension in the setup, because paroling townies is probably optimal earlier in the game, and lynching from the parole list is probably optimal later in the game, but you clearly don't want to do both of those things at the same time.

My guess is that this is townsided purely based on the endgame situation + the fact that town has useful power roles. White Flag is somewhat scumsided, but adding a vig and a tracker and an extra VT to it is going to swing it well to the townsided end of things, and the fact that parole isn't as useful as full White Flag probably doesn't outweigh that.
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