Merchant's Daughter [Endgame]

[Nancy Drew 39]

@Taly, I haven't done what I listed because I'm still phoneposting and it would take an eternity to do it; it was a reminder for when I get a computer. I'm on my vacations, this is not what I'm planning to do during them. And yes, we have played together in my main.

@Nancy I told Mr. Worm that I will leave the dance if he doesn't start giving me some content 'cause he said there's no time to talk, that we have to vote TheBrie. I can't do more than that.

@Mr. Worm, it seems that we have a lot in common regarding our reads; I understand your gimmick and I really like it, but we have to be respectful with the rest of the playerlist and at least try to sort each other and play as a team. Could you continue with your gimmick but being helpful in our love nest, please?

While I definitely have some paranoia about Brie, I don’t see why she is being viewed as the scummiest player by you guys and Gamma?

I differ from Dann in that although I agreed with a lot of RC’s reads, RC wasn’t psychic and couldn’t have forseen moment not posting for 3 days post intermission, 5 days total. I was hardtownreading him prior to that.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Final thought

Also, I don't think I want a

Moment+TheBrie

lynch right now at all.

I want to reread

Moment

, and I think

TheBrie

is town.

So killing off a sorting+townread is not a good decision.

p-edit

k ty

PB

<3

I agree, I don’t think they’re the ideal first lynch.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Lol, most of the posts I make during the day are while in class

S_S, can you explain your scumreads?

To be honest? Not really.

I think Krazy's play makes a ton of sense coming from scum, and I don't think there's much that a player as dedicated and self-aware as him couldn't fake.

Nancy's sort of the same way, I've seen her push with real emotion in other games and I haven't seen much of it here. From my memory a lot of her reads have been lackluster.

They aren't strong scumreads, but I townread most of the game.

Really? Who did I push “with emotion” in Excalibur on D1? I do remember strongly defending Fire, who everyone was hellbent on mislynching however. But that wasn’t on D1, iirc.

TheRoomOdds isn’t the best example, since Persivul was flaming scum in that and I’m being criticized for not pushing him in the main game thread post-game.

[Nancy Drew 39]

VOTE: THEBREAD

Talk about some of your reads?

I mean that was a read gamma lol

He said brie is scum because she's skipping walls. Agree or not that is a read

It depends on the walls. I tend to skip over Mastina walls, because they often make my head hurt.

[Nancy Drew 39]

WHO WANTS DR WORM to WALK OUT??

I mean if you have a strong gutscum read on pb from pt interactions that is something only you would know

You can summarize what pinged you but tbh I don't know that I could evaluate pb better from your summary

I do think you're town so it is just a question of why pb in my mind

+1

[Nancy Drew 39]

Well if it's a mathematical certainty that scum is in there, it means that it didn't take any scumhunting skill to generate... I could put everyone in the scum tier and say "omg I scumread all the scum!" but it wouldn't mean anything.

Re: Thomas's wall, I don't know yet. I'm trying to get him to talk about that stuff a little more in the PT.

Having played with DT in a MU Lovers’ game, I can tell you that activity is NAI for him but town!him would express strong opinions in your PT. He did in ours - they were dead wrong but he definitely didn’t lack conviction.

[Nancy Drew 39]

@SS, I think you're pretty strongly town. What is your read on DT? Also, I know you're struggling because your scum reads are all strongly town read by someone. But who is your first lynch ideally if you had complete control? Me and Nancy? What if we both flipped town?

Thomas is nulltown.

First lynch would probably be Krazy/Taly.

Why? Taly is my #1 town and Krazy is a strong townlean for me.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Well if it's a mathematical certainty that scum is in there, it means that it didn't take any scumhunting skill to generate... I could put everyone in the scum tier and say "omg I scumread all the scum!" but it wouldn't mean anything.

Re: Thomas's wall, I don't know yet. I'm trying to get him to talk about that stuff a little more in the PT.

I mean I know your most recent experiences with nancy have been of high activity, but why do you feel like this is not the nancy of excalibur? You shouldn't assume the lack of her getting into a fight with some toxic player is a scumtell dude.

As for me you just overestimate my scum game, but I take it as a compliment so idgaf

Have people not been reading the beginning of the game? Has everyone already forgotten my arguing with Fire? And who was the “toxic” player in Excalibur I was alledgedly fighting with? I got into it a bit with Gamma but I’d hardly call that a “fight” by any stretch of the imagination.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I mean I know your most recent experiences with nancy have been of high activity, but why do you feel like this is not the nancy of excalibur? You shouldn't assume the lack of her getting into a fight with some toxic player is a scumtell dude.

I don't think I paid attention to a single thing Nancy said in Excalibur while I was alive.

The only thing I remember her doing... was getting in a fight. (After I was dead.)

So let me get this straight. You didn’t read any of my posts and you call a brief minor heated exchange with Gamma, a “fight”?

[Nancy Drew 39]

VOTE: THEBREAD

Talk about some of your reads?

I mean that was a read gamma lol

He said brie is scum because she's skipping walls. Agree or not that is a read

I wanted more reads than his TheBrie read though.

I have him busy in our love nest, if you know what I mean

Does that mean you’re actually exchanging reads?

[Nancy Drew 39]

First lynch would probably be Krazy/Taly

TELL WHY using a few small words PLEASE and THAKN YOU!!

He is the most likely deepwolf candidate.

So, you’d prefer to risk us lynching a player who has a much better chance of flipping town, than someone who’s more objectively scummy?

You would probably be saying this about RC, if he was still in the game. Correct?

[Nancy Drew 39]

I mean I know your most recent experiences with nancy have been of high activity, but why do you feel like this is not the nancy of excalibur? You shouldn't assume the lack of her getting into a fight with some toxic player is a scumtell dude.

I don't think I paid attention to a single thing Nancy said in Excalibur while I was alive.

The only thing I remember her doing... was getting in a fight. (After I was dead.)

I guess lol

If there's one thing that bothers me rn it's that she complained about the lack of votes and then didn't put down a vote herself, which is odd because I've never seen her afraid to put down a vote. Doesn't make me scumread her but I don't get why you're so salty just because nancy is widely townread. It doesn't look like you're scum, it's just a question of if your reads hold merit. Saying you forgot the first two thirds of excalibur doesn't help me there because that's why I incorrectly had doubts about her--she did seem more passive there in a way that isn't totally different than her being a bit passive here, which is why I'm not going to scumread her just for the lack of a fight. Her combativeness tends to go with her certainty in her reads and since we don't have a red flip here I don't feel like she's deadlocked on scum yet.

I mean maybe she should be deathtunneled on you because you dared list her as a scumread and I'm pocketed but I have waaaaaaaaaay fewer doubts about my townread of Nancy than you seem to have about DT, who I'm still pretty ok with flipping red

Then you don’t really know my meta as well as you think I do. If you read my hydra PT with A50 in SC 1, he asked me why I was so “shy” about putting down a vote. I think I then voted Sadade, eventhough I wasn’t really feeling it. If I had been playing solo, I 100% wouldn’t have done that.

It’s your freaking game Krazy, how can you misrep me here, when you can verify what I’m saying is true?

[Nancy Drew 39]

P.edit. You’re suspicious because I’m not deathtunneling SS for scumreading me? Why? He said prior to intermission that RC was more valuable to us dead than alive, correct?

Do you really think he kills RC in that context? If anything, that flip, made me think SS was more likely to be town here. I’m not that horrible of a player, Krazy. I take all factors into account, when I make my reads.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I guess I can ask -- nancy where are you voting?

I’ve already said that I’m leaning DT.

I’m just waiting to see if he posts anything in his PT and what SS thinks of it.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Damn I'm feeling better about my main theory on pb and now I feel like even more of a dick for leaving like I did last game

Meh

What does PB have to do with your replace out? It was Slaxx you were fighting with.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I don't get why you're so salty just because nancy is widely townread.

I'm not, I think it's likely that she's town even though I myself don't see why.

Where is he “salty”, @Krazy? I know he’s wrong but I’m not seeing that.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I mean, I've already said Thomas was nulltown. I'm trusting RC on Dann and Brie, so if I were to drop anyone it'd be Gamma... but any read on Gamma will get drowned out by IC WIFOM.

But why not me? Remember both Ank and RC were hardtownreading me and both of them have extensive familiarity with my meta.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I just realized it's hypocritical to suspect Nancy for not being able to read Gamma when she said she was obvtown in a previous game... because I too have read Gamma as obvtown before but cannot read her here.

+1

It. must be the apocalypse, since we’re actually mindmelding on something.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I just realized it's hypocritical to suspect Nancy for not being able to read Gamma when she said she was obvtown in a previous game... because I too have read Gamma as obvtown before but cannot read her here.

My first ever meta case on Gamma was that she enjoys scum a bit more than town, so she has an inverted meta (the opposite of the Creature-style meta of 'lurk as scum, post a lot as town') and she tends to post heavier as scum. But I think that's because Gamma feeds back on feeling like she's part of a team. So it is plausible to me that she just really likes not having to sort her partner and that's why there's been a big upsurge in her confidence post-intermission.

Also possible that she just likes her scumteam a lot here though so... hard to say for sure. But that seems unlikely if DT flips scum, which is one of several reasons that I think we need some red flips so we can get a better feel for how the scum even feel about this game.

I don’t put a lot of stock into activity reads because I’ve seen that lead to a lot of mislynches and also have seen scum doing this. Scum!Thor actually tried to mislynch Gamma in YGM based on that.

But like SS has already said, she’s a huge question mark for me rn. I am neither seeing the obvious towntells that she exhibited in theRoomOdds and RC uPick nor the obvious scumtells I remember from OK 2. Unlike Creature, who I have extreme confidence in reading correctly, I can’t say that about Gamma.

[Nancy Drew 39]

the Creature-style meta of 'lurk as scum, post a lot as town'

off topic, but I guess I need to stop saying this, given it really isn't creature's meta anymore

Creature meta is to express strong conviction as town and to be frozen as scum.

[Nancy Drew 39]

TheRoomOdds isn’t the best example, since Persivul was flaming scum in that and I’m being criticized for not pushing him in the main game thread post-game.

I was talking about you pushing me...

But I had no other information and you were threatening to PL me, which read uberscummy to me.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Have people not been reading the beginning of the game?

Uh yes. I did not read the beginning of the game. Want to point out a few pages?

I was arguing and unlike what your imo mischaracterizing as a “fight” with Gamma in Excalibur, I actually was fighting with Fire. It happened before RC made his first post. I was extremely upset with Fire and was legit afraid I was going to lose it on him, so I temporarily replaced out and then I calmed down and decided that I wasn’t about to let Fire or anyone else push me out of a game.

After what I went through in MBoS, I just didn’t think I could go through that again. :/

[Nancy Drew 39]

Why? Taly is my #1 town and Krazy is a strong townlean for me.

I think I've said a fair amount about Krazy in the past few pages.

I was still getting caught up.

[Nancy Drew 39]

So, you’d prefer to risk us lynching a player who has a much better chance of flipping town, than someone who’s more objectively scummy?

You would probably be saying this about RC, if he was still in the game. Correct?

Considering "objectively scummy" is a myth, yes.

Also I might have been saying it about RC, but he wasn't a deepwolf. He wasn't playing to live to endgame like Krazy is.

Can you please explain this? How is Krazy doing that exactly?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Then you don’t really know my meta as well as you think I do. If you read my hydra PT with A50 in SC 1, he asked me why I was so “shy” about putting down a vote. I think I then voted Sadade, eventhough I wasn’t really feeling it. If I had been playing solo, I 100% wouldn’t have done that.

It’s your freaking game Krazy, how can you misrep me here, when you can verify what I’m saying is true?

To be fair I get a much weaker sense of a feel for how someone plays when I am modding the game rather than playing it. Also, that game was insane so there was a lot of things distracting me from a mod pov.

And I wouldn't say that's a misrep, it's just my recollection, and I still said you were town right there so... chill, gurl.

I’m just shocked that you didn’t read my hydra PT, especially after all of our private convos about my constantly considering replacing out because our hydra was a complete trainwreck for the most part, so I really just don’t understand this.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Doesn't make me scumread her

Nancy why are you ignoring this part? I am trying to be candid about my thought process and getting S_S to open up about the extent of his meta arguments, I wasn't saying I was "suspicious" of you

I’m not ignoring it at all. I just get irritated when someone misrepresents my meta. I was similarly tilted at tw in MBoS for saying that I only talk about my scum meta as scum, when that’s actually closer to NIA-townie for me to do that.

Yes, I know you’re hardtownreading me but yeah, I get tilted whenever I think my meta is being misrepresented - intentionally or not and especially because of that hydra PT I had with A50 in your game and all of our convos about how upset I was through much of that game.

[Nancy Drew 39]

It’s your freaking game Krazy, how can you misrep me here, when you can verify what I’m saying is true?

I can think of one possible reason...

#postsyouthinkarehelpfulbutarent

No, I said posts that LOOK helpful. I don't care about fluffing. I care about people who are more concerned with appearance than substance.

But Krazy has been making detailed reads, so I’m not seeing this at all. *confused*

[Nancy Drew 39]

Alright, but he won't be posting for another 10-11 hours based on his schedule.

This is not really a gamestate that dramatically rewards going 10 hours of waiting for someone to post reads they should have posted 3 days ago.

DT and moment both tbh. Eventhough I’m currently hardtownreading Dann, I don’t understand why he isn’t taking this into account. As far as I’m concerned, not posting in your PT/not doing anything to either help sort your partner/be sorted by them/giving reads’ post-flip is not pro-town irrespective of your alignment. Like we only have 5 days left, so everyone who’s town here, absolutely needs to be doing this.

[Nancy Drew 39]

What does PB have to do with your replace out? It was Slaxx you were fighting with.

Opposite of what I meant; PB has done me a solid before so I feel bad because if I'd known I would have tried to return the favor and kept my cool longer with Slaxx.

I am not following.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I don't care about fluffing. I care about people who are more concerned with appearance than substance.

Yeah but if you're just going to turn into Formerfish then we're done here and you can go whenever

I don’t think that’s a fair comparison. I’m starting to get nervous here. This isn’t going to turn into another standoff with Slaxx and you replacing out, I hope?

[Nancy Drew 39]

S_S

is being very towny to me :/... I feel like he'd have more leverage or partners would have an extra voice for him in this game if he were scum.

He's not confident in his reads and that coincides with his behavior.

Dr. W

, what has pinged you about

PB

?

Yes, I’m feeling pretty confident about SS!town here.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Rushing anything is bad but I think a lynch needs to be done by tomorrow. (Tuesday)

Otherwise the more discussion is made, the more muddled our reads and perception of the game become.

+1

[Nancy Drew 39]

What is meant by this?

It means you're starting to annoy me so I'm going to stop interacting with you since the signal-noise ratio is deteriorating.

Sadly I think I like you more when you're scum.

But dude, SS is nothing like FF here, not even close.

[Nancy Drew 39]

He's hard townreading his partner, he's not tolerating scumreads on him, and he's trying to be a major force in determining lynches.

Well, my only issue is you are nothing like FF, so Krazy comparing you to him, makes 0 sense to me. I would be completely ignoring your posts, if that were the case.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Please don’t lump me in with any of this. Moment’s absence is definitely hurting the game, we can’t ignore that fact. There is only a little over 5 days left! And no, I can’t elaborate on Brie, because as I already told you in our PT, I don’t want to get into trouble. I’m kind of upset that you seem to have jumped to the wrong conclusion. Sure, I absolutely could elaborate on it but I don’t know how to do that without being in violation of site rules. Yes, it’s extremely frustrating but not wanting to risk a ban is /= to lacking reasons. Whenever I say in any game ever, that I can’t elaborate or discuss anything, that is ALWAYS what I mea

Hey sorry, I should have explained better. I know you really can't elaborate for good reason, it's more as a whole the reasons for pushing Brie/Moment (particularly from Gamma) seem weak. Yours may not be, but unfortunately it's hard for me to be sure because you can't really explain it. Didn't mean to misconstrue you

All I can say, is that I think I have good reasons to feel some degree of paranoia about Brie but her not harddefending moment for her inactivity, makes me feel a lot better about her.

[Nancy Drew 39]

sup

Re: Thomas's wall, I don't know yet.

I'm trying to get him to talk about that stuff a little more in the PT.

Why haven’t you posted yet in your PT?

[Nancy Drew 39]

sup

Re: Thomas's wall, I don't know yet.

I'm trying to get him to talk about that stuff a little more in the PT.

Why haven’t you posted yet in your PT?

because i didn't log onto mafia scum?

wtf lol

You were posting in the main thread.

[Nancy Drew 39]

DT and moment both tbh. Eventhough I’m currently hardtownreading Dann, I don’t understand why he isn’t taking this into account. As far as I’m concerned, not posting in your PT/not doing anything to either help sort your partner/be sorted by them/giving reads’ post-flip is not pro-town irrespective of your alignment. Like we only have 5 days left, so everyone who’s town here, absolutely needs to be doing this.

Yea, this is awful. If Moment and the Brie are town this puts our odds at winning way down because this could be a good pair to have around, but we might have to flip it next just for information since it can't give us much with Moment MIA. I'm just hoping Moment comes back because I think Brie is pretty town rnow

+1

I’m glad we’re on the same page here. I did ask FG to prod her but as of yet, nothing.

[Nancy Drew 39]

@DT, Brie, who are you currently scumreading?

i havent ever town read gamma

i have taly, krazy at pretty townie

dr worm i kinda tossed at town pile for liking his troll ass vibe. prob should reevalute soon. i also thought pink ball's tone was townie. i haven't scum read that for a while, but should reevalute. i am liking S_S, and i am not a fan of the way thebrie accepted moment's invitiation. i didn't like her excuse after intermission of how "she wasn't sure she can be back so she hastily accepted that" i mean.. that sounds like she was very preoccupied with surviving, which is odd because there are more gents so chances are she would always have an invitation even if S_S takes moment away from her. maybe she wanted moment to not be paired with S_S on purpose? this is something i should look at despite reading her tone pretty high town in intermission.

Nancy shold be reevaluated since i havent read your post in a while. i dont like the way you questioned me 'not posting in PT' like it was pretty clear i havent been on in the meantime and just posted here so what was the point of that question?

Never had a strong opinion on Dann, moment


who is left. vedith and firebringer? vedith can be scum although i liked the way firebringer threatened to leave the dance in case vedith votes with his high number of coins and the way she reacted to me asking her a question about it

You posted in the main thread, so why not in your PT? You don’t consider that a valid question?

Have you been reading the game? Vedith left Fire and both of them flipped town.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Spoiler:

I originally gave DT a town read in #3418, which reading back, I believe are pretty weak reasons. The posts I outline in DT's ISO that I think are representative of towny thought processes... aren't that impressive? I may have too hastily lumped DT into my sudden strong PvT town read just due to DT's explanation in #3216 where he lowkey supported a PvT town. I'm not sure if that's something scum wouldn't point out that. The same goes for his other "towny" talking points.

#1265Gets referenced a lot when explaining town reads on the DT slot... and I don't get it? It's a bunch of gut/tone reads and then justification for not having to explain those.

i also partly dont like explaining every single small things that come to my mind because

1) chances are they are wrong
2) chances are my own opinion of them change later on
3) they clog up the thread unnecessarily we honestly don't need every single detail of thoughts that I have

now, if you accept my love reqeust and we get a lovers chat, i can, of course, explain all the little things you want

This actually pings me quite a bit. Sure, you can be like "scum would never wanna be this brazen and admit this," but I don't think that's a strong enough argument.

1) Town shouldn't care about being wrong. Rather, they shouldn't care about that potential making them look suspicious. Scum care if they're caught being wrong and the associatives look bad for them.
2) Opinion changes are natural and one of the hardest things in the game for scum to fake with authenticity.
3) Sure... But there's a difference between clogging up the thread unnecessarily with every single detail and just saying "x is town" and "x is scum" off of pure gut and tone reads.

My problem with DT is that the things people point to when they say he looks towny are fairly lazy and not proactive. His entire ISO is waiting for people to come to him and interact with him. Very rarely does he take the initiative in pressuring people and it doesn't look like he's trying to proactively solve the game. There's a lot of "engage with me," but not a lot of engaging that's actually solving.

Like, I actually am calling you a flat out liar about you claiming to come on at the same time as me.

how the fuck am i a liar?

i never fucking lie as either alignment

like as scum i would definitely scum read you for things i would scum read as town to begin with so i dont understand what you mean by calling me a liar lol

Stuff like this also makes me doubt the strength of town reads on him. I think people tend to like him for how genuine his reads seem, but their surface level enough that I don't see why it couldn't just as easily be faked by scum.

Look at his progression in the pre-dance too:

Spoiler:

i think i am at the point where i'd rather just out in pre dance if i dont get brie maybe

This pings me. Specifically because it's so noncommittal. RC and Ank were obv!town because it was blatantly obvious they both believed the other was scum and was willing to leave the dance to take the other one out. Here, DT suggests he might just stay out of the pre-dance since he scum reads both Gamma and SS. Hey! That might actually be good for town and it's obviously a town motivated thing to do. Except he's never gonna actually do this, so what's the point in saying this?

taly i am at the point where i can sheep you shamelessly


who should i pair up with

and who are your scum reads

can we like start talking about parnters

@everyone who doesnt have a partner

but that means i need an actual town partner

who wants to partner up with me :/

Gamma, are you town?

stop fucking fighting over nothing when your boi doesnt even have a partner and is about to die

You, Pvt, Allo, Gamma, me.

I'm annoyed Brie took Moment's invitation without waiting for him to okay it, but I feel like the fact that I waited and Brie didn't should make me clearly town.

I like this post

gamma, if ss doesn't accept my shit and take whoever you want, will you take me to da dance

I just don't like the progression from "maybe I should just sit out" to looking for reasons to town read one of SS or Gamma. This is the kind of desperation I don't like. I don't think it's genuine trying to figure out who among the last ladies is scummier or townies, it's just looking for reasons to town read one of them so he can look fine going to the dance with them.

I'm also concerned that DT isn't actually pushing anyone. Like SS/DT is probably gonna be the first or second lynch and yet... His big most recent wall post is just defending himself from Krazy's meta case. He isn't offering up alternatives, and idk what his scum reads even are atm. Gamma?

@Thomas,

which pair is your preferred first lynch? And why haven't you made any efforts to push there? What are your reads rnow? Is SS strong town? Have you guys interacted in your PT at all?

@SS,

I think you're pretty strongly town. What is your read on DT? Also, I know you're struggling because your scum reads are all strongly town read by someone. But who is your first lynch ideally if you had complete control? Me and Nancy? What if we both flipped town?

I really really don't think we should be lynching Moment/Brie first. I have Brie as pretty strongly town (something I should probably elaborate on when I have mroe sleep tomorrow) and while I don't have a good read on Moment, I really think the amount RC + Ank pushed for Moment!town + the fact Moment hasn't even posted yet means lynching there is a terrible idea. Obviously, inactivity is harmful either way, but we might be fucking up a really strong T/T pairing as Ank and RC thought without even letting Moment get her thoughts in. I feel like maybe scum saw Moment/Brie as a threat pre-dance and are now trying to quickly dispatch of them.

There's also the fact that the reads there feel... Pretty lackluster?

Nancy can't elaborate on her Brie read

, Gamma's scum reading Moment for... not answering some question 30 pages ago. I forget what else. It's just scaring me how this pairing is the first being pushed after RC and Ank died. At the very least, it shouldn't be the first flip imo.

VOTE: DT

Please don’t lump me in with any of this. Moment’s absence is definitely hurting the game, we can’t ignore that fact. There is only a little over 5 days left! And no, I can’t elaborate on Brie, because as I already told you in our PT, I don’t want to get into trouble. I’m kind of upset that you seem to have jumped to the wrong conclusion. Sure, I absolutely could elaborate on it but I don’t know how to do that without being in violation of site rules. Yes, it’s extremely frustrating but not wanting to risk a ban is /= to lacking reasons.

Whenever I say in any game ever, that I can’t elaborate or discuss anything, that is ALWAYS what I mean

. Krazy, I think was bordering on doing something similar with you and since I also couldn’t comment on that, for similar reasons, I tried to nip it in the bud, because explaining it, is against the rules not just on here but on any mafia site. Capiche? God!

scummy overreaction, tbh

How is this an “overreaction”, let alone a “scummy” one?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Spoiler:

I originally gave DT a town read in #3418, which reading back, I believe are pretty weak reasons. The posts I outline in DT's ISO that I think are representative of towny thought processes... aren't that impressive? I may have too hastily lumped DT into my sudden strong PvT town read just due to DT's explanation in #3216 where he lowkey supported a PvT town. I'm not sure if that's something scum wouldn't point out that. The same goes for his other "towny" talking points.

#1265Gets referenced a lot when explaining town reads on the DT slot... and I don't get it? It's a bunch of gut/tone reads and then justification for not having to explain those.

i also partly dont like explaining every single small things that come to my mind because

1) chances are they are wrong
2) chances are my own opinion of them change later on
3) they clog up the thread unnecessarily we honestly don't need every single detail of thoughts that I have

now, if you accept my love reqeust and we get a lovers chat, i can, of course, explain all the little things you want

This actually pings me quite a bit. Sure, you can be like "scum would never wanna be this brazen and admit this," but I don't think that's a strong enough argument.

1) Town shouldn't care about being wrong. Rather, they shouldn't care about that potential making them look suspicious. Scum care if they're caught being wrong and the associatives look bad for them.
2) Opinion changes are natural and one of the hardest things in the game for scum to fake with authenticity.
3) Sure... But there's a difference between clogging up the thread unnecessarily with every single detail and just saying "x is town" and "x is scum" off of pure gut and tone reads.

My problem with DT is that the things people point to when they say he looks towny are fairly lazy and not proactive. His entire ISO is waiting for people to come to him and interact with him. Very rarely does he take the initiative in pressuring people and it doesn't look like he's trying to proactively solve the game. There's a lot of "engage with me," but not a lot of engaging that's actually solving.

Like, I actually am calling you a flat out liar about you claiming to come on at the same time as me.

how the fuck am i a liar?

i never fucking lie as either alignment

like as scum i would definitely scum read you for things i would scum read as town to begin with so i dont understand what you mean by calling me a liar lol

Stuff like this also makes me doubt the strength of town reads on him. I think people tend to like him for how genuine his reads seem, but their surface level enough that I don't see why it couldn't just as easily be faked by scum.

Look at his progression in the pre-dance too:

Spoiler:

i think i am at the point where i'd rather just out in pre dance if i dont get brie maybe

This pings me. Specifically because it's so noncommittal. RC and Ank were obv!town because it was blatantly obvious they both believed the other was scum and was willing to leave the dance to take the other one out. Here, DT suggests he might just stay out of the pre-dance since he scum reads both Gamma and SS. Hey! That might actually be good for town and it's obviously a town motivated thing to do. Except he's never gonna actually do this, so what's the point in saying this?

taly i am at the point where i can sheep you shamelessly


who should i pair up with

and who are your scum reads

can we like start talking about parnters

@everyone who doesnt have a partner

but that means i need an actual town partner

who wants to partner up with me :/

Gamma, are you town?

stop fucking fighting over nothing when your boi doesnt even have a partner and is about to die

You, Pvt, Allo, Gamma, me.

I'm annoyed Brie took Moment's invitation without waiting for him to okay it, but I feel like the fact that I waited and Brie didn't should make me clearly town.

I like this post

gamma, if ss doesn't accept my shit and take whoever you want, will you take me to da dance

I just don't like the progression from "maybe I should just sit out" to looking for reasons to town read one of SS or Gamma. This is the kind of desperation I don't like. I don't think it's genuine trying to figure out who among the last ladies is scummier or townies, it's just looking for reasons to town read one of them so he can look fine going to the dance with them.

I'm also concerned that DT isn't actually pushing anyone. Like SS/DT is probably gonna be the first or second lynch and yet... His big most recent wall post is just defending himself from Krazy's meta case. He isn't offering up alternatives, and idk what his scum reads even are atm. Gamma?

@Thomas,

which pair is your preferred first lynch? And why haven't you made any efforts to push there? What are your reads rnow? Is SS strong town? Have you guys interacted in your PT at all?

@SS,

I think you're pretty strongly town. What is your read on DT? Also, I know you're struggling because your scum reads are all strongly town read by someone. But who is your first lynch ideally if you had complete control? Me and Nancy? What if we both flipped town?

I really really don't think we should be lynching Moment/Brie first. I have Brie as pretty strongly town (something I should probably elaborate on when I have mroe sleep tomorrow) and while I don't have a good read on Moment, I really think the amount RC + Ank pushed for Moment!town + the fact Moment hasn't even posted yet means lynching there is a terrible idea. Obviously, inactivity is harmful either way, but we might be fucking up a really strong T/T pairing as Ank and RC thought without even letting Moment get her thoughts in. I feel like maybe scum saw Moment/Brie as a threat pre-dance and are now trying to quickly dispatch of them.

There's also the fact that the reads there feel... Pretty lackluster?

Nancy can't elaborate on her Brie read

, Gamma's scum reading Moment for... not answering some question 30 pages ago. I forget what else. It's just scaring me how this pairing is the first being pushed after RC and Ank died. At the very least, it shouldn't be the first flip imo.

VOTE: DT

Please don’t lump me in with any of this. Moment’s absence is definitely hurting the game, we can’t ignore that fact. There is only a little over 5 days left! And no, I can’t elaborate on Brie, because as I already told you in our PT, I don’t want to get into trouble. I’m kind of upset that you seem to have jumped to the wrong conclusion. Sure, I absolutely could elaborate on it but I don’t know how to do that without being in violation of site rules. Yes, it’s extremely frustrating but not wanting to risk a ban is /= to lacking reasons.

Whenever I say in any game ever, that I can’t elaborate or discuss anything, that is ALWAYS what I mean

. Krazy, I think was bordering on doing something similar with you and since I also couldn’t comment on that, for similar reasons, I tried to nip it in the bud, because explaining it, is against the rules not just on here but on any mafia site. Capiche? God!

scummy overreaction, tbh

How is this an “overreaction”, let alone a “scummy” one?

Sorry for messing up the formatting.

[Nancy Drew 39]

At any rate, I’m hardtownreading Dann for 4610. I have good reason to think that this kind of passion he’s showing here about being leery of disregarding RC reads and being concerned about possibly mislynching moment/Brie never comes from scum!Dann. Do you agree @Krazy?

do you town read dann for anything frmo PT?

He has been genuinely and thoughtfully engaging with me, since intermission. I wanted to get his reads both during and post, to A) get a jump on the game, since I slept through Witches’ Ball and

B) because I wanted to see how his reads compared with post-dance 1 and post-flips and based on both what he’s been posting both in our PT and in the main thread - his adamant concern with not disregarding RC’s moment/Brie reads, reads really townie to me. I also don’t see scum!him ICing Urist.

C) Once again, something I can’t elaborate on but I just can’t see that kind of passion coming from scum!Dann.

[Nancy Drew 39]

At any rate,

I’m hardtownreading Dann for 4610

. I have good reason to think that this kind of passion he’s showing here about being leery of disregarding RC reads and being concerned about possibly mislynching moment/Brie never comes from scum!Dann. Do you agree @Krazy?

@DT

[Nancy Drew 39]

i am thinking you mentioning dann's specific post 4610 to town read him is odd because you have a PT with him

Yes but I can’t quote from there. Like wtf man first you think I need to be “re-evaluted” for asking why you posted in the main thread and not in your PT and now, it’s “odd” that I quote a post -

that the entire playerlist has access to

, to make my point.

???

[Nancy Drew 39]

I kinda want to flip a coin that can only land heads up and just assume Thomas is town... maybe a F6 of us/Nannflor/TheMoment?

Has he posted something in your PT to convince you he’s town? Or are you solely basing that on his derping about Vedith/Fire?

Since I wrongly read scum!Varsoon for derping in BoR, I am not that quick to tr anyone solely based on that.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I really want to see Krazy's flip here.

Based on your deep wolf theory? What if you’re wrong and we just lost another helpful townie in this game?

We both agree on Taly being obvtown, so for that reason alone, I strongly oppose Krazy lynch at this time. He is also one of my strongest townreads. No offense but I trust Taly’s Krazy read over yours.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Also I will say if Dannflor flips scum he just spewed me and Thomas town really hard.

I kinda want to flip a coin that can only land heads up and just assume Thomas is town... maybe a F6 of us/

Nannflor

/TheMoment?

*confused*

[Nancy Drew 39]

This is difficult. Gut reads I'm just gonna go 2, 3, 5 as town and 1 and 4 as scum

Am I the only one who found this incomprehensible?

THEBREAD is NOT reading!!

Yeah it does seen like she skipped my walls

you don't want to pressure thebrie for ignoring your post which has been a topic in the thread for several posts now?

either way that is anti town

Did she say it was intentional, because I don’t know why you’re assuming that?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Spoiler:

I originally gave DT a town read in #3418, which reading back, I believe are pretty weak reasons. The posts I outline in DT's ISO that I think are representative of towny thought processes... aren't that impressive? I may have too hastily lumped DT into my sudden strong PvT town read just due to DT's explanation in #3216 where he lowkey supported a PvT town. I'm not sure if that's something scum wouldn't point out that. The same goes for his other "towny" talking points.

#1265Gets referenced a lot when explaining town reads on the DT slot... and I don't get it? It's a bunch of gut/tone reads and then justification for not having to explain those.

i also partly dont like explaining every single small things that come to my mind because

1) chances are they are wrong
2) chances are my own opinion of them change later on
3) they clog up the thread unnecessarily we honestly don't need every single detail of thoughts that I have

now, if you accept my love reqeust and we get a lovers chat, i can, of course, explain all the little things you want

This actually pings me quite a bit. Sure, you can be like "scum would never wanna be this brazen and admit this," but I don't think that's a strong enough argument.

1) Town shouldn't care about being wrong. Rather, they shouldn't care about that potential making them look suspicious. Scum care if they're caught being wrong and the associatives look bad for them.
2) Opinion changes are natural and one of the hardest things in the game for scum to fake with authenticity.
3) Sure... But there's a difference between clogging up the thread unnecessarily with every single detail and just saying "x is town" and "x is scum" off of pure gut and tone reads.

My problem with DT is that the things people point to when they say he looks towny are fairly lazy and not proactive. His entire ISO is waiting for people to come to him and interact with him. Very rarely does he take the initiative in pressuring people and it doesn't look like he's trying to proactively solve the game. There's a lot of "engage with me," but not a lot of engaging that's actually solving.

Like, I actually am calling you a flat out liar about you claiming to come on at the same time as me.

how the fuck am i a liar?

i never fucking lie as either alignment

like as scum i would definitely scum read you for things i would scum read as town to begin with so i dont understand what you mean by calling me a liar lol

Stuff like this also makes me doubt the strength of town reads on him. I think people tend to like him for how genuine his reads seem, but their surface level enough that I don't see why it couldn't just as easily be faked by scum.

Look at his progression in the pre-dance too:

Spoiler:

i think i am at the point where i'd rather just out in pre dance if i dont get brie maybe

This pings me. Specifically because it's so noncommittal. RC and Ank were obv!town because it was blatantly obvious they both believed the other was scum and was willing to leave the dance to take the other one out. Here, DT suggests he might just stay out of the pre-dance since he scum reads both Gamma and SS. Hey! That might actually be good for town and it's obviously a town motivated thing to do. Except he's never gonna actually do this, so what's the point in saying this?

taly i am at the point where i can sheep you shamelessly


who should i pair up with

and who are your scum reads

can we like start talking about parnters

@everyone who doesnt have a partner

but that means i need an actual town partner

who wants to partner up with me :/

Gamma, are you town?

stop fucking fighting over nothing when your boi doesnt even have a partner and is about to die

You, Pvt, Allo, Gamma, me.

I'm annoyed Brie took Moment's invitation without waiting for him to okay it, but I feel like the fact that I waited and Brie didn't should make me clearly town.

I like this post

gamma, if ss doesn't accept my shit and take whoever you want, will you take me to da dance

I just don't like the progression from "maybe I should just sit out" to looking for reasons to town read one of SS or Gamma. This is the kind of desperation I don't like. I don't think it's genuine trying to figure out who among the last ladies is scummier or townies, it's just looking for reasons to town read one of them so he can look fine going to the dance with them.

I'm also concerned that DT isn't actually pushing anyone. Like SS/DT is probably gonna be the first or second lynch and yet... His big most recent wall post is just defending himself from Krazy's meta case. He isn't offering up alternatives, and idk what his scum reads even are atm. Gamma?

@Thomas,

which pair is your preferred first lynch? And why haven't you made any efforts to push there? What are your reads rnow? Is SS strong town? Have you guys interacted in your PT at all?

@SS,

I think you're pretty strongly town. What is your read on DT? Also, I know you're struggling because your scum reads are all strongly town read by someone. But who is your first lynch ideally if you had complete control? Me and Nancy? What if we both flipped town?

I really really don't think we should be lynching Moment/Brie first. I have Brie as pretty strongly town (something I should probably elaborate on when I have mroe sleep tomorrow) and while I don't have a good read on Moment, I really think the amount RC + Ank pushed for Moment!town + the fact Moment hasn't even posted yet means lynching there is a terrible idea. Obviously, inactivity is harmful either way, but we might be fucking up a really strong T/T pairing as Ank and RC thought without even letting Moment get her thoughts in. I feel like maybe scum saw Moment/Brie as a threat pre-dance and are now trying to quickly dispatch of them.

There's also the fact that the reads there feel... Pretty lackluster?

Nancy can't elaborate on her Brie read

, Gamma's scum reading Moment for... not answering some question 30 pages ago. I forget what else. It's just scaring me how this pairing is the first being pushed after RC and Ank died. At the very least, it shouldn't be the first flip imo.

VOTE: DT

Please don’t lump me in with any of this. Moment’s absence is definitely hurting the game, we can’t ignore that fact. There is only a little over 5 days left! And no, I can’t elaborate on Brie, because as I already told you in our PT, I don’t want to get into trouble. I’m kind of upset that you seem to have jumped to the wrong conclusion. Sure, I absolutely could elaborate on it but I don’t know how to do that without being in violation of site rules. Yes, it’s extremely frustrating but not wanting to risk a ban is /= to lacking reasons.

Whenever I say in any game ever, that I can’t elaborate or discuss anything, that is ALWAYS what I mean

. Krazy, I think was bordering on doing something similar with you and since I also couldn’t comment on that, for similar reasons, I tried to nip it in the bud, because explaining it, is against the rules not just on here but on any mafia site. Capiche? God!

scummy overreaction, tbh

How is this an “overreaction”, let alone a “scummy” one?

dude made an entire wall literally dedicated to how I am scum but then you had to make a paragraph to try to explain how "you don't want to be lumped in with us"

Why the fuck do you care about that as town?

Why don't you want to comment on his case on me? that's probably way more worth it to talk about right?

I have in our PT. A lot of your posts aren’t making a lot of sense to me, which is why I’m hoping that you, moment and everyone who hasn’t, post in their PTs. That’s what they’re supposed to be there for, so that the pairs can evaluate each other.

Based on soley on what I’ve been seeing in the main thread, Brie is way townier than you, here.

[Nancy Drew 39]

also i tried to make my pairing with brie happen, i just was busy and couldn't be on thread as much as i should have to play the game properly. sorry about that but i did go for brie pairing. she just accepted moment's especially after S_S wanted to wait and let moment choose. i think that act is kinda scummy in itself and not understanding why she is not getting more heat

also i hard defended myself because i town read SS and not scum read SS. that is not hard to understand. I think there are definite scum in Gamma or Brie. Maybe in PB, Nancy, etc if I look more into it. what are you curious about?

wait vedith and firebringer died?

They sure did, Vedith did in fact leave the dance. They are both flipped town.

It's NAI that I missed that fact. what are you trying to consider?

why did vedith leave the dance?

He was convinced on Fire scum.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I mean, I've already said Thomas was nulltown. I'm trusting RC on Dann and Brie, so if I were to drop anyone it'd be Gamma... but any read on Gamma will get drowned out by IC WIFOM.

Not really... Gamma isn't getting lynched first for sure. That doesn't mean we don't need to make a choice about her literally in the next 5 days.

why not?

Because Urist is IC.

Speaking of @Urist, what is your current read on Gamma?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Well if it's a mathematical certainty that scum is in there, it means that it didn't take any scumhunting skill to generate... I could put everyone in the scum tier and say "omg I scumread all the scum!" but it wouldn't mean anything.

Re: Thomas's wall, I don't know yet. I'm trying to get him to talk about that stuff a little more in the PT.

Having played with DT in a MU Lovers’ game, I can tell you that activity is NAI for him but town!him would express strong opinions in your PT. He did in ours - they were dead wrong but he definitely didn’t lack conviction.

did you want to be in my Lover PT that badly? why is this the only thing you talk about

Lolwut?

You were town in that game and it was blatantly obvious, soley based on what you posted in our DC.

[Nancy Drew 39]

i am thinking you mentioning dann's specific post 4610 to town read him is odd because you have a PT with him

Yes but I can’t quote from there. Like wtf man first you think I need to be “re-evaluted” for asking why you posted in the main thread and not in your PT and now, it’s “odd” that I quote a post -

that the entire playerlist has access to

, to make my point.

???

I didn't know you can't quote frmo PT. but i assume you can talk about thing we talked about in PT? just not directly quote it? let me know if i am wrong

that being said, no you don't need to be re-evaluated because you asked me about some irrelavnat shit. you need to be re-evaluated because that's how a game of mafia works. be open minded and realize a read you've made in the very first phase of the game will bound to be imperfect, so definitely reevaluate after flips

dont tell me you dont reevaluate slots that's LOL

Sure, of course. That applies to everyone but Urist obviously.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I kinda want to flip a coin that can only land heads up and just assume Thomas is town... maybe a F6 of us/Nannflor/TheMoment?

Has he posted something in your PT to convince you he’s town? Or are you solely basing that on his derping about Vedith/Fire?

Since I wrongly read scum!Varsoon for derping in BoR, I am not that quick to tr anyone solely based on that.

how is me derping about vedith/fire alignment indicative

That’s what I’m saying, it isn’t.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Also I will say if Dannflor flips scum he just spewed me and Thomas town really hard.

I kinda want to flip a coin that can only land heads up and just assume Thomas is town... maybe a F6 of us/

Nannflor

/TheMoment?

*confused*

what's to confuse about

Because I think these posts seem contradictory. You disagree?

[Nancy Drew 39]

STAHP BREAKING THE SITE D:

Sorry, I’m trying not to annoy everyone with a ginormous wall post but I have no idea what I did wrong. \_0_/

[Nancy Drew 39]

I could use one of those too now, tbh.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Well if it's a mathematical certainty that scum is in there, it means that it didn't take any scumhunting skill to generate... I could put everyone in the scum tier and say "omg I scumread all the scum!" but it wouldn't mean anything.

Re: Thomas's wall, I don't know yet. I'm trying to get him to talk about that stuff a little more in the PT.

Having played with DT in a MU Lovers’ game, I can tell you that activity is NAI for him but town!him would express strong opinions in your PT. He did in ours - they were dead wrong but he definitely didn’t lack conviction.

did you want to be in my Lover PT that badly? why is this the only thing you talk about

Lolwut?

You were town in that game and it was blatantly obvious, soley based on what you posted in our DC.

wtf? why are you lying you literally cussed me out in discord lover PT for thinking you could be scum

you said "you are just scum at this point for not obv town reading me" then you got banned for angleshooting (lol)

don't pretend you correctly town read me. you literally subbed out cuz u thought i was a scum for not reading you town

which was kinda insane

I obtown read you and yes, thanks for reminding me of something I’d really rather forget. I was trying to do whatever I could think of to get you to see that I was town, so we wouldn’t lose the game with our mislynch.
I knew I had majorly fucked up by wrongly pushing El pair mislynch and you promised to lynch us if they flipped town, so yes I really was that desperate for you not to lose us the game because you totally sucked at reading me. Happy now.?

Yeah, and I paid the price for it, as you’ve already said.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I really want to see Krazy's flip here.

Based on your deep wolf theory? What if you’re wrong and we just lost another helpful townie in this game?

We both agree on Taly being obvtown, so for that reason alone, I strongly oppose Krazy lynch at this time. He is also one of my strongest townreads. No offense but I trust Taly’s Krazy read over yours.

None taken, but I don't trust Taly's read either.

If I'm wrong then we have a shitton of analysis that is now modconfirmed to come from town. Yes of course it's possible but if you stop yourself from pushing any of your scumreads because "what if they flip town?" you'll never get anywhere.

But I don’t want to lynch my #1 townread in this game, because if you’re wrong, town, is going to suffer. You’ve given me a lot to think about and am now questioning my intial hardtown read on him but I absolutely believe mislynching that pair before some more flips, would be horrible for town.

So, unless Taly changes her read on Krazy, I don’t want to touch them yet. I still think Krazy is more likely to be town here than not.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Also I will say if Dannflor flips scum he just spewed me and Thomas town really hard.

I kinda want to flip a coin that can only land heads up and just assume Thomas is town... maybe a F6 of us/

Nannflor

/TheMoment?

*confused*

what's to confuse about

Because I think these posts seem contradictory. You disagree?

"I think Nancy is maybe town"

"I think Nancy is maybe scum"

in a game of mafia

is contradictory

ok hurr durr

You are misrepping what I’m saying here. SS wants us in the final 6 and then makes that comment about Dann flipping scum, so it didn’t and STILL doesn’t make sense to me.

[Nancy Drew 39]

My argument was that you should have had reads three days ago and that town is on the clock. I think I made exactly one post about it. Stop acting like I was talking up a storm about your post activity, that was simply me refuting the notion that there wasn't enough to work with irt your slot to get a read.

i town read SS and not scum read SS. that is not hard to understand. I think there are definite scum in Gamma or Brie. Maybe in PB, Nancy, etc if I look more into it.

As far as I know this is your reads right now. We have 5 days to solve the game. Who gets lynched today DT? Why are you continuing to bitch about me not spoonfeeding you interactions when you are presenting 0 indications of a solving mindset? Do you want Brie lynched today? Do you want Gamma to go first? Why in that order?

I have read your games and you are not this directionless as town. I feel like you just want to throw dirt at whoever is online and posting rather than working toward a gamesolve.

I thought I made my reads on other players to a certain degree so I am confused as to why you are trying to shade me this hard.

I think Gamma is obv scum but didn't realize she is partners with IC. Thinking maybe we can let them live technically just because we know for sure her partner is town and you made a fair point about gamma 'spewing'

I think Worm/PB are pretty null.

I think Brie's "reads" have been very subpar. I explained this before but you haven't read my posts properly so I will say it again

These are all of her "reads" that she made today:

Leaning towards scum on Moment, but he's not giving me anything to read. Conflicted on Pink Ball.

I went and did meta on Gamma. Her game is quite similar as town and scum, as town she's got more questions that force others to get involved and are really challenging, as a little less "Explain this" and sort of mechanical stuff, or comments on how people are playing. But it's close, and I can't tell which side this falls on. Maybe a tiny bit towards the scum side, but not enough to say anything solid. It's not outside her town range.

There's a few things that give me a scummy feel, but overall... I've not gotten her sorted out. i just know I'm not putting her solidly in as town.

In summary, she basically just says, "I lean scum. but he doesn't have any content to base my read on him. Idk Pink ball. I did meta on Gamma. I can't tell if she's town or scum. maybe a little scum. Don't have anything solid.

This is definition of hedging and she is refusing to take a stance. I think that is an overtly scum trait.

I also don't buy her explanation of insta accepting moment's invitation, as S_S pointed out

Mostly because I was afraid life would hardly let me on before the deadline. i had a couple days of full on work (waking up at three am), and I didn't know then how tired I would be the rest of the time. Bad reason.
Also, I wasn't really townreading SS then, and didn't really want her with Moment.

i don't really see scum!Moment asking scum!SS when he had a reasonable chance of town!me accepting. So currently townreading SS. Not townreading Moment, but I want to see him post again before making a final judgement.

I think this is >rand scum thing to do.

I also think Nancy constantly talking about my lover PT is >rand scum. I cannot understand why she thinks that would be NAI and scum read me for it. sounds scummy.

I think Worm's tone is townie, but I am confused as to why he completely ignored you and my interaction to talk about me at all in the last 10 pages that I read

I think Gamma has done very little solving and noone really town reads her. I think the way she got mad and attacked me out of nowehre is extremely scummy because she was blatantly lying about my progression on her. I think she can go, but I can accept why people wouldn't want to lynch her because she is lovers with an IC.

In that sense, I think Brie also has very high scum equity especially with her performance today. I haven't read Moment at all. hopefully he comes back soon. maybe ill iso him eventually.

I think nancy has good scum equity as well for oddly attacking me for not talking in lovers PT when i simply havent been on. I also think it was weird for her to give a reason for twon reading dann by using a post itt despite having lovers PT she so loves to talk about with him. i think dann is kinda townie for his posts tho and i initially town read nancy, so i personally prefer brie's lynch who i scum read harder and have no opinion on the lover for

i made all of this pretty clear in my recent posts so don't give me the "i dont see any reads from you" shit. read my shit.

i think you are just conf biasing and not reading my posts to tunnel me. i think you cussing me out is unnecessary and just provoking me really hard. believe me i can get real toxic real fast.

i don't want to go down that path so if you unnecessarily cuss me out again i will just ignore your presence and play the game around so i can at least leave a good legacy if you are just gonna deathtunnel me. i do think you are somewhat townie (despite S_S believing otherwise) and I think Taly is very townie so I don't want to get involved in a useless mess with you.

good luck with the rest of the game if you have anything intelligent to say that you want to approach me in a mature way to talk about, i'd be glad to talk. otherwise, i think you are just stuck in a tunnel and will play the game around you

There is nothing even remotely scummy about any of my comments about my your lovers’ PT.

VOTE: DoubtingThomas

I have not done anything of the kind to you in this game. Unlike SS who, is actually trying to solve the game, I think you’re scum trying to setup my mislynch but creating a toxic environment, just because I think SS can get a decent read on you in your PT.

[Nancy Drew 39]

My argument was that you should have had reads three days ago and that town is on the clock. I think I made exactly one post about it. Stop acting like I was talking up a storm about your post activity, that was simply me refuting the notion that there wasn't enough to work with irt your slot to get a read.

i town read SS and not scum read SS. that is not hard to understand. I think there are definite scum in Gamma or Brie. Maybe in PB, Nancy, etc if I look more into it.

As far as I know this is your reads right now. We have 5 days to solve the game. Who gets lynched today DT? Why are you continuing to bitch about me not spoonfeeding you interactions when you are presenting 0 indications of a solving mindset? Do you want Brie lynched today? Do you want Gamma to go first? Why in that order?

I have read your games and you are not this directionless as town. I feel like you just want to throw dirt at whoever is online and posting rather than working toward a gamesolve.

I thought I made my reads on other players to a certain degree so I am confused as to why you are trying to shade me this hard.

I think Gamma is obv scum but didn't realize she is partners with IC. Thinking maybe we can let them live technically just because we know for sure her partner is town and you made a fair point about gamma 'spewing'

I think Worm/PB are pretty null.

I think Brie's "reads" have been very subpar. I explained this before but you haven't read my posts properly so I will say it again

These are all of her "reads" that she made today:

Leaning towards scum on Moment, but he's not giving me anything to read. Conflicted on Pink Ball.

I went and did meta on Gamma. Her game is quite similar as town and scum, as town she's got more questions that force others to get involved and are really challenging, as a little less "Explain this" and sort of mechanical stuff, or comments on how people are playing. But it's close, and I can't tell which side this falls on. Maybe a tiny bit towards the scum side, but not enough to say anything solid. It's not outside her town range.

There's a few things that give me a scummy feel, but overall... I've not gotten her sorted out. i just know I'm not putting her solidly in as town.

In summary, she basically just says, "I lean scum. but he doesn't have any content to base my read on him. Idk Pink ball. I did meta on Gamma. I can't tell if she's town or scum. maybe a little scum. Don't have anything solid.

This is definition of hedging and she is refusing to take a stance. I think that is an overtly scum trait.

I also don't buy her explanation of insta accepting moment's invitation, as S_S pointed out

Mostly because I was afraid life would hardly let me on before the deadline. i had a couple days of full on work (waking up at three am), and I didn't know then how tired I would be the rest of the time. Bad reason.
Also, I wasn't really townreading SS then, and didn't really want her with Moment.

i don't really see scum!Moment asking scum!SS when he had a reasonable chance of town!me accepting. So currently townreading SS. Not townreading Moment, but I want to see him post again before making a final judgement.

I think this is >rand scum thing to do.

I also think Nancy constantly talking about my lover PT is >rand scum. I cannot understand why she thinks that would be NAI and scum read me for it. sounds scummy.

I think Worm's tone is townie, but I am confused as to why he completely ignored you and my interaction to talk about me at all in the last 10 pages that I read

I think Gamma has done very little solving and noone really town reads her. I think the way she got mad and attacked me out of nowehre is extremely scummy because she was blatantly lying about my progression on her. I think she can go, but I can accept why people wouldn't want to lynch her because she is lovers with an IC.

In that sense, I think Brie also has very high scum equity especially with her performance today. I haven't read Moment at all. hopefully he comes back soon. maybe ill iso him eventually.

I think nancy has good scum equity as well for oddly attacking me for not talking in lovers PT when i simply havent been on. I also think it was weird for her to give a reason for twon reading dann by using a post itt despite having lovers PT she so loves to talk about with him. i think dann is kinda townie for his posts tho and i initially town read nancy, so i personally prefer brie's lynch who i scum read harder and have no opinion on the lover for

i made all of this pretty clear in my recent posts so don't give me the "i dont see any reads from you" shit. read my shit.

i think you are just conf biasing and not reading my posts to tunnel me. i think you cussing me out is unnecessary and just provoking me really hard. believe me i can get real toxic real fast.

i don't want to go down that path so if you unnecessarily cuss me out again i will just ignore your presence and play the game around so i can at least leave a good legacy if you are just gonna deathtunnel me. i do think you are somewhat townie (despite S_S believing otherwise) and I think Taly is very townie so I don't want to get involved in a useless mess with you.

good luck with the rest of the game if you have anything intelligent to say that you want to approach me in a mature way to talk about, i'd be glad to talk. otherwise, i think you are just stuck in a tunnel and will play the game around you

There is nothing even remotely scummy about any of my comments about my your lovers’ PT.

VOTE: DoubtingThomas

I have not done anything of the kind to you in this game. Unlike SS who, is actually trying to solve the game, I think you’re scum trying to setup my mislynch but creating a toxic environment, just because I think SS can get a decent read on you in your PT.

you apparently 'town read' me earlier, but it dropped down. then you started scum reading me because 'i don't post on PT' then you constantly ask me asinine questions like 'why haven't you posted in lovers PT?'

well because i havent been fucking logged onto mafia scum, kid

I think you are just asking me questions for the sake of asking questions to make me look scummy

i think you used the fact of me not talking in lover's PT as an excuse to set up a mislynch on our slot.

How does that make an iota of sense? I wanted you to post in your goddamned lovers’ PT, so that SS could hopefully sort you, instead of realizing that I was trying to get as much info as possible in order not to mislynch, you scumread me for that. How is that a town thought?

[Nancy Drew 39]

waiting to talk to S_S about stuff. he's been gone now.

I wasn't sure if we vote as a pair or not and wanted to hear S_S's opinion. Also think we have couple days left before voting?

why should i vote so early in the day phase?

We have 5 days left until the end of the game

The rest of the game must be played out within those five days. If we don't start getting flips soon, we're gonna have a lot less time to deal with potential lylo situations.

The fact that today has consisted mostly of you defending yourself and getting you to commit strongly to any one push is worrying.

Slowing down this day phase is strictly anti town.

Oh I thought we get a week or so of time per lynching?

but the entire game ends at the end of the five days? what happens if we have a situation where only like 1 scum is alive with a lot of townies so parity is not reached by the end of the 5? scums still win?

If the Mafia makes up 50% or more of the remaining players at any point, Mafia immediately wins. If all of the Mafia are lynched, then Town wins. If the game runs out of time and at least one Mafia is still alive, then Mafia wins.

[Nancy Drew 39]

you apparently 'town read' me earlier, but it dropped down. then you started scum reading me because 'i don't post on PT' then you constantly ask me asinine questions like 'why haven't you posted in lovers PT?'

well because i havent been fucking logged onto mafia scum, kid

I think you are just asking me questions for the sake of asking questions to make me look scummy

i think you used the fact of me not talking in lover's PT as an excuse to set up a mislynch on our slot.

I actually really don't think this is town.

It reads as if he’s scared of putting himsellf in a position where SS can sort him. Like what is he so afraid of if town? Answer me that, @DT.

[Nancy Drew 39]

i think you used the fact of me not talking in lover's PT as an excuse to set up a mislynch on our slot.

What?

Why do you think Nancy would pursue that specifically to "set up a mislynch" when both Krazy and I have been vocal about our suspicions of you? That doesn't make sense. Nancy doesn't even need to create an "excuse" to set up a mislynch with your slot because it's very likely your pair or Moment/Brie is going first anyway. I don't follow this train of thought.

Old friend used to say

when you ask yourself, "Why would scum do that?", that's exactly the reason why they would do that.

You are not making any sense. You think just because some others scum read you, that means you wouldn't make up an asinine reason to scum read that person?

You think Nancy changing her read on me from town to scum because I don't post in Lover's PT (which was only because I haven't been on mafiascum) is a legitimate reason to be concerned about/scum read me?

I am not sure if you understand nancy's reason to constantly pester the thread about how I didn't post in Lover's PT to be scum indicative, but you might have an idea. Why do you think Nancy is constantly mentioning that in the thread?

It'd be okay if she just talks about it once or twice, but she does it multiple times. Further, I am still having a hard time understanding how that is alignment indicative, especially when she said so herself -- effort for DT is NAI. So why is me not posting in lovers pt scum indicative of me to her?

I think you’re either scum here or have completely taken leave of your senses.

Pay close attention:

I wanted SS to SORT you

and instead of making it possible for him to do that, you make this grotesque push on me. I wasn’t even sure who I was going to vote for before that.

[Nancy Drew 39]

vote me

He is the second vote on your wagon. He is.

You don't even know who is voting you!!!!!

I'm stepping away from this thread but this slot needs to GO TODAY.

FFS.

I could buy may be buy the Vedith/Fire derp but this is just too much.

[Nancy Drew 39]

but the entire game ends at the end of the five days? what happens if we have a situation where only like 1 scum is alive with a lot of townies so parity is not reached by the end of the 5? scums still win?

YES

Do you maybe understand why I wasn't particularly interested in waiting 10 hours to get your flip earlier? And maybe why I am paying attention to when you do or do not post? Because stalling out the game with mud-slinging and AtE is scum indicative when literally every day that goes by without a flip advances the scum wincon

Like how am I supposed to take anything your slot says seriously, regardless of alignment, when you have apparently read nothing of the setup and followed nothing about the discussions that have shaped the game? Maybe it's somehow town indicative, but how are we supposed to solve with you at this point??? I'm not even tunneling--I'm considering the prospect you're town but I have no idea how you can claim to have nuanced reads on players when it's like you're playing an entirely different game

I am not expecting you to do anything. I am now playing the game.

I didn't read the setup, yeah that's facts. Oops, sorry. There are pretty shitty people to play with in a game of mafia in an online forum.

Complain about it all you want. Don't tell me you've not seen someone worse than me.

It doesn't matter. Regardless, I am here to play and I am doing the best of my ability to help my alignment win. That is all there to say. Scum read me all you want for not reading the set up or not posting before. I am here to post now and willing to engage anyone who wants to solve me genuinely.

You can vote me if you think I am scum. I don't care. I will play this game to the best of my ability that I can with what I have now.

Next.

He is the FIRST vote on your wagon. Like wtf dude? If I didn’t know about this setup, I’d swear you’re a jester or something. You are actively trying to get your slot lynched.

[Nancy Drew 39]

vote me

He is the second vote on your wagon. He is.

You don't even know who is voting you!!!!!

I'm stepping away from this thread but this slot needs to GO TODAY.

FFS.

Then that's fucking weird isn't it

I actually really don't think this is town.

fucking implies he didn't think I was scum before, imo. yet he was already voting me.

I think this is a potential slip tbh

But how do you REALLY feel?

[Nancy Drew 39]

I'm guessing you're getting caught up but I'm curious how you feel about DT at this point PB when you get through these last pages, PB.

I told Mr. Worm before catching up that, because of your ISO game, I was starting to believe that DT is town and that I don't want that pairing leave the dance

And now?

[Nancy Drew 39]

so you are already scum reading someone

then you read their post

and your first impression is to think that it doesn't make sense

then you rethink about it and you think it's just straight up scummy

so you went to post about how you actually don't believe i am town?

hmmm lol ok

How do you not know who’s voting you? How?

[Nancy Drew 39]

vote me

He is the second vote on your wagon. He is.

You don't even know who is voting you!!!!!

I'm stepping away from this thread but this slot needs to GO TODAY.

FFS.

I could buy may be buy the Vedith/Fire derp but this is just too much.

if you stop talking now, i will still scum read gamma and brie more than you so i might not vote you

the more you talk the scummier you get

[Nancy Drew 39]

Oh everyone is scumreading DT? Hmmm not good with my theory that Krazy is the deepwolf and avoiding the lynch of Moment/TheBrie. Can we lynch that pair first and then if you want we lynch DT?

You think Moment/Brie are wolfier than DT?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Oh everyone is scumreading DT? Hmmm not good with my theory that Krazy is the deepwolf and avoiding the lynch of Moment/TheBrie. Can we lynch that pair first and then if you want we lynch DT?

You think Moment/Brie are wolfier than DT?

i cannot fathom you would think i am scum for not posting in PT despite playing with me as a lover yourself

why do you think i am scum? i didnt see a legit progression frmo your alleged town read of my slot from intermission to "i think dt is scum.. why isnt he posting in lovers PT?"

I think you’re scum for your REACTION to my wanting SS to sort you in that PT.

[Nancy Drew 39]

like "ok ppl are scum reading DT. let's lynch moment/thebrie and then lynch DT ?"

thats scum 101

No, you dense mofo. If Moment/TheBrie flips red, people will get associations, I clearly stated that. That would save your ass of being mislynched, something that you clearly are not being able to do

Am I literally in the Twilight Zone rn?

[Nancy Drew 39]

like "ok ppl are scum reading DT. let's lynch moment/thebrie and then lynch DT ?"

thats scum 101

No, you dense mofo. If Moment/TheBrie flips red, people will get associations, I clearly stated that. That would save your ass of being

mislynched

, something that you clearly are not being able to do

dude. did u just scum slip me town

I'm townreading you, idiot. I have talked about people being mislynched since the begining of the game according to my reads

He doesn’t even know who’s voting him. Like what are you townreading him for?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Oh everyone is scumreading DT? Hmmm not good with my theory that Krazy is the deepwolf and avoiding the lynch of Moment/TheBrie. Can we lynch that pair first and then if you want we lynch DT?

You think Moment/Brie are wolfier than DT?

i cannot fathom you would think i am scum for not posting in PT despite playing with me as a lover yourself

why do you think i am scum? i didnt see a legit progression frmo your alleged town read of my slot from intermission to "i think dt is scum.. why isnt he posting in lovers PT?"

I think you’re scum for your REACTION to my wanting SS to sort you in that PT.

sounds bull

Good rebuttal.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Pinkie ball, you scum read both moment and thebrie?

i personally think scums will try to avoid being lovers with each other

who do you think are the other scum?

No, I think it's only Moment. Before this day I thought Moment/ThwBrie and you/SS would contain the three scums. Now I think it's only Moment and Krazy as partner. The third one I have literally no idea.

How are you getting Moment/Krazy scumteam here?

[Nancy Drew 39]

like "ok ppl are scum reading DT. let's lynch moment/thebrie and then lynch DT ?"

thats scum 101

No, you dense mofo. If Moment/TheBrie flips red, people will get associations, I clearly stated that. That would save your ass of being

mislynched

, something that you clearly are not being able to do

dude. did u just scum slip me town

I'm townreading you, idiot. I have talked about people being mislynched since the begining of the game according to my reads

He doesn’t even know who’s voting him. Like what are you townreading him for?

how is that AI?

Because I don’t believe you can really be that dense. Missing Vedith/Fire flips is conceivable but 2 freaking votes on you? Nah.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I don’t under how Brie is getting voted over DT? *smdh*

[Nancy Drew 39]

I don’t under how Brie is getting voted over DT? *smdh*

it's literally 3-3 if you consider the fact that brie didnt vote yet and one of the vote is my vote and brie will probably be self pressing anyways

stop *bleep* tilting me

Self pressing? i'm not familiar with that term.

Self preservation, that you vote him to save yourself.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Also why was I singled out?

You, Worm and PB are all voting her.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I mean I know your most recent experiences with nancy have been of high activity, but why do you feel like this is not the nancy of excalibur? You shouldn't assume the lack of her getting into a fight with some toxic player is a scumtell dude.

I don't think I paid attention to a single thing Nancy said in Excalibur while I was alive.

The only thing I remember her doing... was getting in a fight. (After I was dead.)

So let me get this straight. You didn’t read any of my posts and you call a brief minor heated exchange with Gamma, a “fight”?

You voted me off that interaction...

Yes, partly due to wagonomics/POE and you not wanting to gladiate scum!Penguin but that’s why SS thinking I know how to read up you is hillarious. You were obvtown in both TheRoomOdds and RC uPick. I thought you were scum in YGM until you were mechanically confitowned.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Also why was I singled out?

You, Worm and PB are all voting her.

But it was "you guys and Gamma", not PB Worm and Gamma".

Because they’re a pair and you’re not. We have no idea what Urist plans to do until he does it..

[Nancy Drew 39]

DoubtingThomas, who was

Mafia

Gentleman

, has

left

in

Second Dance

.

Something_Smart, who was

Town

Lady

, has

left

in

Second Dance

.

Good there’s still hope we can pull this out.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Gamma, interesting. What connection do you see between Moment and I and DT then?

Also it's time to get this moving along.
VOTE: Doubting Thomas

L-1

DT was consistently pushing both me and TB but voted me for most of that period and was up my ass. That tells me the TB push was likely distancing.
Also VOTE: TheBrie again

I’m just really glad he’s out of the game. He was being toxic and him throwing that game in my face like that, was really mean.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Spoiler:

My argument was that you should have had reads three days ago and that town is on the clock. I think I made exactly one post about it. Stop acting like I was talking up a storm about your post activity, that was simply me refuting the notion that there wasn't enough to work with irt your slot to get a read.

i town read SS and not scum read SS. that is not hard to understand. I think there are definite scum in Gamma or Brie. Maybe in PB, Nancy, etc if I look more into it.

As far as I know this is your reads right now. We have 5 days to solve the game. Who gets lynched today DT? Why are you continuing to bitch about me not spoonfeeding you interactions when you are presenting 0 indications of a solving mindset? Do you want Brie lynched today? Do you want Gamma to go first? Why in that order?

I have read your games and you are not this directionless as town. I feel like you just want to throw dirt at whoever is online and posting rather than working toward a gamesolve.

I thought I made my reads on other players to a certain degree so I am confused as to why you are trying to shade me this hard.

I think Gamma is obv scum but didn't realize she is partners with IC. Thinking maybe we can let them live technically just because we know for sure her partner is town and you made a fair point about gamma 'spewing'

I think Worm/PB are pretty null.

I think Brie's "reads" have been very subpar. I explained this before but you haven't read my posts properly so I will say it again

These are all of her "reads" that she made today:

Leaning towards scum on Moment, but he's not giving me anything to read. Conflicted on Pink Ball.

I went and did meta on Gamma. Her game is quite similar as town and scum, as town she's got more questions that force others to get involved and are really challenging, as a little less "Explain this" and sort of mechanical stuff, or comments on how people are playing. But it's close, and I can't tell which side this falls on. Maybe a tiny bit towards the scum side, but not enough to say anything solid. It's not outside her town range.

There's a few things that give me a scummy feel, but overall... I've not gotten her sorted out. i just know I'm not putting her solidly in as town.

In summary, she basically just says, "I lean scum. but he doesn't have any content to base my read on him. Idk Pink ball. I did meta on Gamma. I can't tell if she's town or scum. maybe a little scum. Don't have anything solid.

This is definition of hedging and she is refusing to take a stance. I think that is an overtly scum trait.

I also don't buy her explanation of insta accepting moment's invitation, as S_S pointed out

Mostly because I was afraid life would hardly let me on before the deadline. i had a couple days of full on work (waking up at three am), and I didn't know then how tired I would be the rest of the time. Bad reason.
Also, I wasn't really townreading SS then, and didn't really want her with Moment.

i don't really see scum!Moment asking scum!SS when he had a reasonable chance of town!me accepting. So currently townreading SS. Not townreading Moment, but I want to see him post again before making a final judgement.

I think this is >rand scum thing to do.

I also think Nancy constantly talking about my lover PT is >rand scum. I cannot understand why she thinks that would be NAI and scum read me for it. sounds scummy.

I think Worm's tone is townie, but I am confused as to why he completely ignored you and my interaction to talk about me at all in the last 10 pages that I read

I think Gamma has done very little solving and noone really town reads her. I think the way she got mad and attacked me out of nowehre is extremely scummy because she was blatantly lying about my progression on her. I think she can go, but I can accept why people wouldn't want to lynch her because she is lovers with an IC.

In that sense, I think Brie also has very high scum equity especially with her performance today. I haven't read Moment at all. hopefully he comes back soon. maybe ill iso him eventually.

I think nancy has good scum equity as well for oddly attacking me for not talking in lovers PT when i simply havent been on. I also think it was weird for her to give a reason for twon reading dann by using a post itt despite having lovers PT she so loves to talk about with him. i think dann is kinda townie for his posts tho and i initially town read nancy, so i personally prefer brie's lynch who i scum read harder and have no opinion on the lover for

i made all of this pretty clear in my recent posts so don't give me the "i dont see any reads from you" shit. read my shit.

i think you are just conf biasing and not reading my posts to tunnel me. i think you cussing me out is unnecessary and just provoking me really hard. believe me i can get real toxic real fast.

i don't want to go down that path so if you unnecessarily cuss me out again i will just ignore your presence and play the game around so i can at least leave a good legacy if you are just gonna deathtunnel me. i do think you are somewhat townie (despite S_S believing otherwise) and I think Taly is very townie so I don't want to get involved in a useless mess with you.

good luck with the rest of the game if you have anything intelligent to say that you want to approach me in a mature way to talk about, i'd be glad to talk. otherwise, i think you are just stuck in a tunnel and will play the game around you

So, in this post DT does say both Brie and Gamma are scum. The difference is he actually cases Brie here and I bolded a part towards the top where he says Gamma can actually be left alive. So I'd actually say he was pushing Brie more than you, Gamma.

Also good to note, right below the bolded portion, he has PB/Dr Worm as null. That, imo combined with his interactions with PB later make more sense as soft distancing.

I have experience with scum!DT and he is really clever. He fooled me in MU Suk game, so it’s extremely likey that he was deliberately trying to get himself lynched to save at least one of his buddies.

I think his shitting on me for pushing him posting in his PT, was just WIFOM to make everyone think he was afraid of it but I think it’s well within his scumrange to have fooled SS, if he had really wanted to. He was open wolfing here and he obviously knew it.

[Nancy Drew 39]

@Krazy I wouldn't hinted so hard my main if I was afraid of being scumread I was legitimately curious from your perspective in particular, that makes a lot of sense I think.

My theory of Moment/You is that you seem to have his pairing on your bottom three, but you will never push him at all. Like right now, when I haven't even explained my theory, you post a big wall where I'm bussing Moment as the first alternative. Not that those alternatives were ordered by preference, but the simple fact that you put it on first says something. What I mean is, you lynch DT/SS, they flip town, you then go for me/Worm instead of Moment/TheBrie, because from the begining of this day you started setting up that turn around on me. So is my theory wacky? No, it makes sense, based on my reads. So that's why I asked everyone if we could lynch Moment first.

But DT flipped scum? *confused*

[Nancy Drew 39]

And @Dann, do you realize that DT was taking whatever he could to protect his scummates rather than himself? Him making that posts towards me to make them feel like distancing should be favouring me instead of damning.

Would scum!DT push TheBrie like that if paired with scum!Moment? Was he trying to get a townpair mislynched before dying or trying to make them mookt good after he flipped?

But that wagon fell apart. I’ve been in a game where scum let its godfather almost get to L-1, before it fell apart. I think it’s a mistake to underestimate scum!DT. He will do anything including posting drunk, to make you townread him for that.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I think #2510 and #2947 come from scum who has realized pocketing me and riding that pair to end game isn't actually going to pan out, so they'll take a widely town read player in Dr Worm who people generally like having around instead. Then, he'll paint it as an "easy mislynch" far far in advance as a pre-emptive defense for when they fall into the PoE.

VOTE: PB

Omg I didn't read this, are you fucking blind? You're like assuming I know that you're town, when you were one of my biggest townreads and I was having fun. Letting you pair with Nancy was protown from my perspective, why the fuck would scum!me not try to insist more and put more effort in pairing with you? Scum!me pockets you 100% in that case sweetheart.

And aay what you want about Worm, I was absolutely right when I said I would become lynchbait if I paired with him. Exhibit A: you right now.

I don’t see how pairing with Worm makes you lynchbait. I think pre-dance, more people were tr him then Dann iirc.

Allo has been wrong now on 3 dead town and since I’m now hardtownreading Dann, I assuming that he was also probably also wrong on Worm. It looks like only Allo and Vedith were probably the only ones who couldn’t see through Worm’s gimmick and ignored that lack of scum motivation in his posting, so no, I have to disagree with you on that. If Worm is ever wolf here, he’s hiding it extremely well but I’m not seeing it.

[Nancy Drew 39]

P.edit. Who is currently sr Worm, @PB, because I’m not seeing it.

[Nancy Drew 39]

@Mod

I'm going V/LA about 24 hours from now for 4 days.

Should have internet access, but it's not 100% guaranteed, and i'll be busy hanging out with people. (Actually leaving morning after, but time will be filled up with packing and sleeping)

I'm not entirely happy with Moment hanging around for four days without me, but now he's back I certainly don't want to leave yet. Both in leaving the dance, and asking for a replacement. I want to keep playing. I just don't know if I really can.
I need a time machine so I can be in two places at once. (Except time travel would let me solve the game, and that would be cheating. Better duplicate myself.)


I really want to to beleive Pinkball is sincere. Tone and logic both go that way. Which is leaving me with too few scum reads.

He seems genuinely angry but if both PB/You/Moment are all town, then I have too many townreads and I am convinced that DT fell on his sword for one of his buddies and it had to be at least one of the pairings of people being pushed for that lynch, right? That would leave Krazy but I don’t want to risk mislynching the partner of my #1 townread, so I’m hoping that I’m right about Krazy town and SS was just dead wrong about that.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Guys I have a solid plan, hear me out.

We should all say who do you want to be the two remaining pairs for endgame, and when we reach a majority, the remaining three pairs leave the dance. That way we avoid WIFOM, we don't give scum the chance to derail conversation or distance between themselves thinking for endgame. We can see true intentions knowing which pair they want for endgame 'cause I think there's some concensus going on about some pairs. This is basically putting scum between a rock and a hard place, 'cause they have to be consistent with what they have stated during the game. Also we give more time to the remaining pairs to solve the game if by any chance the game isn't over after six flips.

I'll start, and we're going to do it popcorn way.

I want Krazy/Taly and Dann/Nancy at the endgame

Krazy/Taly should state their pairings now (I'm suggesting those activity wise; if we wait for Moment to do this we'll never get results)

So the only flaw you can see here is that, if both scum reach the endgame, town loses, but they have to place themselves in the endgame pair to do that. The only way this could happen if both scum members are deepwolves. If that's the case, I think the game's over either way, but I'm convinced that there will be at least one red flip in PB/Worm/Gamma/TheBrie/Moment, if not two

Probably but why are you mentioning your name in this list and are you sr Worm now?

Also, I am convinced that at least one of DT’s buddies was in jeopardy of being lynched over him and that doesn’t include Gamma, so I think we should get the buddy DT was obviously saving before we make that decision.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Dann was townread by almost everyone on pre dance, I think Urist was the only pushing him. And stating a townread on Mr. Worm on pre dance doesn't mean he's not lynchbait bdcauset of lack of presence

Ank thought both Dann and Krazy could be scum and SS had me, Dann and Krazy in his bottom 3 pre-dance, so I don’t see how that follows?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Dann was townread by almost everyone on pre dance, I think Urist was the only pushing him. And stating a townread on Mr. Worm on pre dance doesn't mean he's not lynchbait bdcauset of lack of presence

Ank thought both Dann and Krazy could be scum and SS had me, Dann and Krazy in his bottom 3 pre-dance, so I don’t see how that follows?

Krazy is a strong scumread, Taly

I think ultimately it doesn't matter what we choose

I suspect that whoever his partners are, they're either Dannflor or not teaching endgame regardless of what happens

[Nancy Drew 39]

NACNY i already SAID THIS..

KRAZY ALLOWMANSTER and FREEBRANGER are TOWN-TOWN IN MY MIND AND HEART

This game needs a vig, seriously.

Just leave worm out

Ank hard defends Worm here.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Yeah you two should pair

How confident are you Thomas is town?

If I'm on a good wavelength, then Thomas is most likely town

Allo is more of a wildcard

But Ank obviously was very wrong on this.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Nancy, two endgame pairs. Go.

Why don’t you want to wait for a few more flips, to determine that?

I also can’t parse Gamma yet and Urist hasn’t commented on her posting in their PT.

But rn, I would probably go with Dann/me and Krazy/Taly, because of my being pretty much locktown on Taly but I’m a bit concerned that you are so certain that both scum has to be in in Worm (I’m assuming you wouldn’t be including yourself in that)/moment/Brie and Gamma.

I think you’re probably right but what if you’re wrong? Have you considered that?

[Nancy Drew 39]

@Pink Ball, I am really concerned with you wanting to lock in the endgame pairs just yet, before we know for sure who DT was likely protecting, because it’s pretty damn obvious he was.

Do you not see why this is relevant?

[Nancy Drew 39]

? I think I just said that I think it's Moment and Gamma, did I forget to submit that?

Oh sorry, I didn’t see that. I’m not convinced of moment scum, considering both RC and And were locktown on her. I was thinking Gamma could be scum but DT didn’t fall on his sword for her.

You also thought DT was town, when he was blatantly open wolfing, so I’m not thinking you’re reads are the best this game, sorry.

[Nancy Drew 39]

And no, the whole point is letting the last pairing go to endgame with enough time to make the right decision and not making the three pairings leave in a particular order. If we decide that you, Krazy, Nancy and Dann go to endgame, thebrie and moment leave and both flip town and we stop, it was a waste of time talking about endgame pairings. As I said, I think it's imposible that there's both scum in the endgame pairs I proposed, and if they are, then we will eventually lose either way 'cause the other three pairs (that includes mine) has much more scum equity. What we are doing here is accelerating things a little so if by any chance the game doesn't end at the named pairs leave.

Oh okay, I get it now. I haven’t fully woken up yet.

I obviously misunderstood.

[Nancy Drew 39]

That's the point Nancy: if I'm wrong, an endgame pairing will have better chances to get the remaining deepwolf than with the remaining pairings as distractions and noise. I know I'm town and people has doubts on me: I'm making the endgame pairing lose time. Better leave as early as possible so they can focus

I’m really hoping that you’re right that both scum is in the others, because I’m currently townreading Taly/Dann/Krazy.

[Nancy Drew 39]

? I think I just said that I think it's Moment and Gamma, did I forget to submit that?

Oh sorry, I didn’t see that. I’m not convinced of moment scum, considering both RC and And were locktown on her. I was thinking Gamma could be scum but DT didn’t fall on his sword for her.

You also thought DT was town, when he was blatantly open wolfing, so I’m not thinking you’re reads are the best this game, sorry.

I was scumreading him before I ISOed him, that was my fault. Don't judge me for getting paranoid when the game feels easy, everyone has done it here

I just thought at some point, he was blatantly open wolfing. That’s where my paranoia is coming from. He was clearly trying to get himself lynched, when he could have survived a little longer.

[Nancy Drew 39]

@Taly, Mr. Worm and I are not going to endgame so don't worry too much about us. I'll leave as soon as we get everyone's opinion on endgame's pairs. Or even before that if it's taking too long to gather info. Focus on what would you do if the game is still going if there's you, Krazy, Dann and Nancy alive.

But we need flips to figure that out, no?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Final two pairs? Me/Nancy, Krazy/Taly

UNVOTE: pinkball

I don't know if the order we lynch the others matters too much. I'm now thinking that maybe TheBrie/Moment should go first.

scum!pinkball doesn't introduce this idea of endgame pairs and then not include himself. I'm also inclined to believe all the people who've suggested end game pairs right now are town

DT basically fucked up my reads, so I’m not sure what to think now. :/

So, I think PB’s idea makes sense, because it’s a way to cut throught scum WIFOM.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I don't want to be in a situation of having ONLY 2 pairs left alive if that can be avoided.

We have 2 scum left to my understanding, and 5 pairs.

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

If

PB+Dr.W

townread each other, then I'm NOT OK with having either of them lynched until my strongest scumread is either validated or proven wrong via flip -

Gamma

.



My only grievance is that this eliminates

Urist

as an IC And I don't know if that's wise. So this vote is somewhat tentative, but I want people to indulge in my case or even counteract it if they disagree

p-edit

- outside of just

Gamma

- who ironically appears as I've cased him....

Speaking of @Urist, get in here man and give us your Gamma read. Thanks.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I think Gamma is obv scum but didn't realize she is partners with IC. Thinking maybe we can let them live technically just because we know for sure her partner is town and you made a fair point about gamma 'spewing'
~DT

This post is so strange.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Spoiler:

So my final suggestion is:
PvtUrist/Gamma
Moment/TheBrie
DoubtingThomas/SS
Allonely, I'm so lonely (8)

I support PinkBall's suggestions for pairings. It'll be interesting what input the people actually involved provide however particularly because I think there's likely some scum in there.

So my final suggestion is:
PvtUrist/Gamma
Moment/TheBrie
DoubtingThomas/SS
Allonely, I'm so lonely (8)

not bad

saying people are okay with pairing you with SS is basically saying they're okay with lynching you with dance 1 at this point, in case the subtext here isn't clear

I mean I kinda poe'd you as scum but I have never really seen anything that makes me think there's a smoking gun, I just haven't seen a lot of sorting from you. So if you think Pvt or Moment should be with SS instead of you, you need to kind of say why

Not true. I'm not scumreading either of them

Yeah I slept on it, had a chance to clear my head at work, and this progression still just bothers me too much. PB I love you, I consider you a friend, but I don't see how town ever writes the list in 3084 and then says you're not scumreading DT/SS pairing. 3178 just looks like a scummy backpedal because you weren't going to get enough towncred out of a bus at that point.

There's some other stuff concerning your interactions yesterday that I can talk about as well but the progression from 3084-3178 is just not something that's going to stop pinging me anytime soon.

I’m a bit confused. Why does scum!PB argue for you/Taly, me/Dann as endgame pairs? I’m not following.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I’m a bit confused.

You just answered your own question

What? How?

[Nancy Drew 39]

I don’t see how pairing with Worm makes you lynchbait. I think pre-dance, more people were tr him then Dann iirc.

@Pink Ball, I am really concerned with you wanting to lock in the endgame pairs just yet, before we know for sure who DT was likely protecting, because it’s pretty damn obvious he was.

Do you not see why this is relevant?

I'm basically mindmelding with Nancy here; I don't get why PB suddenly bringing up endgame pairings when he knows I'm going to be coming for him is anything other than a red herring. This is kinda how I felt PB was playing yesterday (literal) too, in seeming to want to change topics whenever something that didn't align with his agenda came up.

Well my main concern was locking in endgame pairs before a few flips but I’m still not seeing why that makes him scum.

[Nancy Drew 39]

For those who are considering Gamma as scum, who do you think the third is?

As for end game pairings, I've said this. Town read on Moment has improved since then, but I think I'm still okay with this.

Reads, I meant reads.

Nancy/Dannflor - both town. I know them a little, they don't feel like scum here, and I trust them to read each other.

Taly/Krazy - Taly is my strongest townread. Krazy not quite as strong, mostly because of the doubt of others, but my gut says town.

Those are the pairs I'd like left. I feel much more confident in Krazy town, than Moment town.

What Gamma's been saying, pushing Moment and I, seems to put her and Moment as SvT. They're not scum together, and my PoE says it's quite unlikely they're both town.

I agree, it’s highly unlikely that two scums are paired together.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Why does scum!PB argue for you/Taly, me/Dann as endgame pairs? I’m not following.

Yea. My thought process basically is:

1. I'm super confident at this point that Krazy, Taly, and Nancy are all town. I'm not gonna let my paranoia chip away here. If I'm wrong, that's something I'll have to deal with eventually, but I'm confident enough to not deal with this at all until endgame.

2. Operating off that assumption, the other three pairs need to go at some point. I'm not too sure the order really matters. I was thinking maybe DT/PB/Gamma yesterday, but it also could be DT/Moment/Gamma or some similar combination.

Either way, PB can't make it to end game because of his interactions with DT, he'll be too easy of a lynch if he's town. And it makes me feel good that he's recognized that. Basically, as long as the two pairs I'm confident are town survive to endgame, the order of the other flips doesn't matter too much. However, we should probably try to get most probable scum first. Right now I'm leaning towards Gamma, but I'd like to wait for PvT to chime in.

I don’t understand why scum!PB argues for you/me, Taly/Krazy endgame pairings. I didn’t think it was wise prior to a few flips but that doesn’t make him scum. I’m becoming really concerned that PB is very likely a mislynch/lhf here.

[Nancy Drew 39]

It was a list with pairing suggestions, not reads. I don't get what you're not getting.

The end of day pairings were based on reads... so the logical structure of your list makes no sense from a town!PB pov

No. It was a pairing list, not a readlist. You're reaching. And I'm starting to get concerned. What the fuck are you trying to acomplish with this if I'm telling you that I'll leave the dance?? If you think I'm scum, I don't win the game by leaving my partner alone at endgame: the endgame fellas have the chance to get him. So what the hell are you doing? Are you scum??

I don’t see why scum!you would do that. Scum!you doesn’t have the fire I’ve seen here in those two scumgames I skimmed of yours. I think PB is town here. Krazy, wtf?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Krazy in what universe I suggest this as scum. You want me lynched and I'm telling you I'm gonna leave either way so you don't have to worry about it. I already said I'm sorry for being wrong on DT and I agree I'm a liability, so I'm leaving. I was trying to help town by seeing what scum suggests as the final pairing. You're making not sense at all

I haven't really been advocating anyone leaving the dance. Obviously, that is a choice you can make. But right now Dann just said that he wants Moment to go first just because he's townreading you for saying you're going to leave the dance. So I want to see whether Dann comes back to your wagon or whether he actually puts a vote down on M-TB.

I still want to have VCA later and I want to see people's reasonings for supporting you going or not.

I disagree with the assertion that the final solve is obvious at this point.

VOTE: PB

I vote no!

[Nancy Drew 39]

I mean at this point PB has been backed into not surviving until end game. That only makes sense as a scum play if his partner is one of Taly/Krazy/Nancy and I'm operating off the assumption these are all town until I'm proven otherwise.

I think you’re wrong here. I don’t see what he gains by doing this as scum.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Well my main concern was locking in endgame pairs before a few flips but I’m still not seeing why that makes him scum.

If he is town, it perhaps makes sense, if he thinks he is going to go.

But we also need to consider the possibility he is scum, and assumes he will be the next flip.

In that case, his strongly pushing for a pair of endgame pairings is to produce wifom and paranoia about those pairings.

So until I actually see his flip and know he's town, I frankly don't know what agenda is actually trying to advance right now.

Is there something in the water? Think guys, what does he gain by this other than to delay his ultimate lynch? According to this theory, he survives only one, maybe 2 lynches max. So, he knows there’s no way he’s making it to endgame anyway, so this theory is whacked. How am Taly the only ones who can see this?

[Nancy Drew 39]

What a fucking joke.

@Nancy, Dann and Taly, if the game's not over after the six flips, lynch Krazy.

Also, force votes on the other two pairs if they are not leaving by themselves. @Urist, you'll have to help with that. Don't leave before Moment and TheBrie.

Leave the dance

Noooo, why doesn’t anyone ever listen to me?

[Nancy Drew 39]

I haven't really been advocating anyone leaving the dance. Obviously, that is a choice you can make. But right now Dann just said that he wants Moment to go first just because he's townreading you for saying you're going to leave the dance. So I want to see whether Dann comes back to your wagon or whether he actually puts a vote down on M-TB.

I'm second guessing myself all over the place right now, so this might sound bad, but I think I'm leaning towards Gamma first now. I want to see her case on Brie though.

I want to see both Urist’s read on Gamma and moment’s read on Brie, because Brie has already done that.

[Nancy Drew 39]

@Nancy, Dann and Taly, if the game's not over after the six flips, lynch Krazy.

Also, force votes on the other two pairs if they are not leaving by themselves. @Urist, you'll have to help with that. Don't leave before Moment and TheBrie.

Leave the dance

well I guess this flips town

good bye my love

sorry I doubted you

[Nancy Drew 39]

What a fucking joke.

@Nancy, Dann and Taly, if the game's not over after the six flips, lynch Krazy.

Also, force votes on the other two pairs if they are not leaving by themselves. @Urist, you'll have to help with that. Don't leave before Moment and TheBrie.

Leave the dance

I could have sworn I just said I was casing you to get VCA on your wagon and reasonings in regard to your slot but ok

You voted him.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I've never used that exact phrasing EVER so lol ok

Subject: NY 213 - Game Over!

VOTE: texcat
eh after a mite of meta I think tex has a decent chance of being scum

Come on Gamma, don't you remember how we met?

That's a grade A example of a Gamma Emerald bus btw guys in case you're wondering what they look like

I guess we could also talk about the phrasing of the whemestar bus, "fuck it I think he's scum" that one's nice too

I’ve played with scum!Gamma twice and I don’t recall her ever saying that.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Not even giving Worm a chance for final reads is like...

I mean I understand if you're tilted with me right now but I don't see how that was pro-town, respectfully

He already said he didn’t think he should make it to endgame and you vote him.

[Nancy Drew 39]

<3 to everyone. Krazy you having a case on me doesn't say anything about you; my suggestion had no scum sense at all and you still being paranoid about me is scummy. Good luck everyone!! Dann, I will remember youuuu (8)

Pedit: not tilted I love you

I agree. Krazy said I answered my own question. No, I still don’t get it.

Won’t you remember me too?

Remember “besties before testies”? <3

[Nancy Drew 39]

I’m so glad you’re in this game. I’m not listening to Krazy anymore.

[Nancy Drew 39]

WE JUST PISSED AWAY A FREE MISLYNCH OPPORTUNITY ON A COLLECTIVE SCUMREAD WITHIN THE TOWNBLOC.

We pushed an obvtown to prematurely leave. I’m so tilted rn.

[Nancy Drew 39]

He already said he didn’t think he should make it to endgame and you vote him.

Yeah and I had literally just said I didn't want him to leave the dance because I wanted to see who would choose to defend him

He was clearly willing to leave anyway, so why risk it?

[Nancy Drew 39]

THIS ENTIRE LAST PAGE IS A PRIME EXAMPLE OF TOWN SHOOTING THEMSELVES IN THE FOOT

+1

[Nancy Drew 39]

Why are you both playing up the AtE?

It's not helping.

Well, it’s different than Vedith/Fire because no one pushed him. PB left because of you.

[Nancy Drew 39]

We're not in mylo

But I was starting to think

PB+Dr. W

was town/town.

I would've liked to voice my read progression before they left the dance.

A town/town pairing could still be here - and the ability to discern that through discussion has been taken away from us.

Nancy

, don't be bothered. I overreacted a little bit, but I wanted my sentiment to be strongly understood.

I was more confident in PB being town after all that than Brie/Moment, so PB was hands down, was the worst one to push.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Yes, I thought PB was town at the end there, but he also COULD NOT survive to end game with the associations he had with DT. Maybe leaving before other flips was premature, but it did have to happen soon

I disagree. I think DT had more associatives with Brie/Gamma than PB. He didn’t even know DT flipped.

[Nancy Drew 39]

That's why I wasn't 100% set on

PB's

idea to lynch everything outside 2 pairs - because nobody was talking about their immediate scumreads when the plan was mentioned.

I don't care if

PB/Dr. W

was going to survive endgame or not.

I had enough reason to townread them on actual posts, motivations, and the gamestate to NOT want a flip there.

+1

PB was obvtown at that point.

[Nancy Drew 39]

But this doesn't matter, the flips been done, and I don't want to burden you 3 because I think all 3 of you are town

Krazy/Nancy/Dann

Thoughts on

Gamma

and

Moment

now that

PB's

suspicion has been validated?

Why are you both playing up the AtE?

It's not helping.

Well, it’s different than Vedith/Fire because no one pushed him. PB left because of you.

Let's not go down the blame route. Focus on our situation.

I think DT was trying to save at least one of his teammates, so I think we need to figure out which one.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Meh. I don't like the blame Krazy is receiving here. His push on PB had town motivation, just because it resulted in a T/T pairing leaving doesn't make his actions objectively wrong.

I want to vote Gamma, but I want all of Pvt/Gamma and Brie/Moment to weigh in before I do.

That really isn’t the point. As I already said it was risky. I’m not scumreading him for it, I just didn’t agree with it.

[Nancy Drew 39]

He was clearly willing to leave anyway, so why risk it?

I literally explained why in the exact same post where I was voting him, and have repeated it like twice since.

I wanted to see who would go for my case on PB over Taly's case on Gamma.

I don't get why people think they want me in the endgame if they refuse to give me the information I want to be able to solve the endgame.

I just didn’t expect him to suddenly leave.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Let's stop talking about reads on

PB

pre-flip since they've already been flipped.

Who is your top scumread

Nancy

?

Probably Gamma but I still have paranoia about Brie/moment because Gamma wasn’t in any danger but I’m probably being fooled by DT WIFOM.

I would have both of them gone before PB/Worm. Meh.

But if you want Gamma before Brie/moment, I’ll trust you on that.

Why aren’t Moment/Urist giving us any reads on their partners?

[Nancy Drew 39]

We'll, we have 2 pairs not in the townbloc.

TheBrie+Moment/Gamma+Urist

I don't think we lynch wrong at this point, but I'm more firm on

Gamma

being scum, and I can still see an argument of

DT+Gamma

being associated with either

Moment+TB

at this point... but I didn't want to bring this thought up until we had more discussion.

Urist is confitown, so at least one scum between those other three. I was also confident on Worm being town since pre-dance.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I just didn’t expect him to suddenly leave.

Clearly I did not either and I really, really did not appreciate you blaming me for his choice.

Yesterday was stressful enough with DT going into an insane lolcat open wolf fiesta, I was hoping today we could actually have like a reasoned argument and do some real sorting. I don't need you guilt tripping me for pushing a scumread.

I’m not apologizing. PB was objectively the worst push here. And neither you or Dann is going to make me feel bad for my reaction.

And wrt to DT, if anyone should be upset about that, it’s me. You weren’t being humiliated in front of everyone like I was. After it was all over, I told DT off then blocked him. It was all I could do to not lose it on him. so I don’t need anymore shit from either of you. Okay?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Also, if we had a 3-pair townbloc - town would've had voting power over scum numerically.

We're all 4 votes now and 5 makes a lynch.

We're now relying on a scum/town pair to suicide.

I still want the townbloc to throw votes. :/

I think I need a hug first Taly.

[Nancy Drew 39]

We'll, we have 2 pairs not in the townbloc.

TheBrie+Moment/Gamma+Urist

I don't think we lynch wrong at this point, but I'm more firm on

Gamma

being scum, and I can still see an argument of

DT+Gamma

being associated with either

Moment+TB

at this point... but I didn't want to bring this thought up until we had more discussion.

Urist is confitown, so at least one scum between those other three. I was also confident on Worm being town since pre-dance.

Where's your vote

Nancy

? Did you read my posts on

Gamma

?

I’m sorry, I’m really upset rn. I should probably take a break from this thread.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Also, if we had a 3-pair townbloc - town would've had voting power over scum numerically.

We're all 4 votes now and 5 makes a lynch.

We're now relying on a scum/town pair to suicide.

I still want the townbloc to throw votes. :/

I think I need a hug first Taly.

*hugs*

This is just a game

Nancy <3

Even in my rage-posts I haven't forgotten about that and I'm never letting this become personal.

What DT did to me yesterday was beyond cruel. I’m still freaked out over it. I was temp-signup banned for three goddamned months because he was hellbent on mislynching our pair, which would have lost us the game.

[Nancy Drew 39]

@Nancy I'm not trying to give you shit, it was a situation that ended in a less than optimal outcome. It sucks. Didn't mean to come off like I was telling you or anyone off. Love you all <3

I think Gamma is obv scum but didn't realize she is partners with IC. Thinking maybe we can let them live technically just because we know for sure her partner is town and you made a fair point about gamma 'spewing'
~DT

This post is so strange.

I keep coming back to this.

I think we can assume the "didn't realize she is partners with IC" is an outright lie considering DT is part of the scum team. Yes he's missed things in this game so far, but as part of the scum team, he HAD to have known where the IC was, right?

I think Gamma has done very little solving and noone really town reads her. I think the way she got mad and attacked me out of nowehre is extremely scummy because she was blatantly lying about my progression on her. I think she can go, but I can accept why people wouldn't want to lynch her because she is lovers with an IC.

Like, I kinda think this stance comes from scum using the IC to protect his buddy.

I’m sorry but when Krazy went off on me, that just was too much. My ban ended a month ago but I was too outraged by the unfairness of it all because another player - not DT, did things far worse than me but never got into any trouble whatsoever. Sorry, I don’t mean to clog up the thread with this. I’m just glad we don’t have to deal with his garbage anymore.

I was probably overreacting. :/

[Nancy Drew 39]

Nancy

, you're settling on a lot of emotion in the game.

While that is all PERFECTLY valid

, this is the perfect time for you to give yourself a break so you can think clearly about Mafia at hand.

<3

Discuss your problems after the game so you're cooled off enough to speak of them tactfully - because there's no point in getting heated now.

This, hands down is my favourite post in the game. <3 <3 <3

[Nancy Drew 39]

VOTE: Gamma

I wanted to wait for discussion from Moment/Pvt etc. but I'm not confident they're active enough for that to be worth waiting for.

We need to gamesolve and keep our lovers feeling the love

<3 <3 <3

I think this game is definitely solvable, and I feel like

Gamma

is the best person for a partner flip. Upon his flip, I think we'll have a much better picture of

Moment+TheBrie

.

Okay, my vote is on Gamma, unofficially. I guess Gamma has to be scum, since there can only be at most only one in Brie/moment unless Gamma flips green, so I can see where you’re going with this.

I’m hoping that’s the case anyway.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I’m sorry but when Krazy went off on me, that just was too much. My ban ended a month ago but I was too outraged by the unfairness of it all because another player - not DT, did things far worse than me but never got into any trouble whatsoever. Sorry, I don’t mean to clog up the thread with this. I’m just glad we don’t have to deal with his garbage anymore.

I was probably overreacting. :/

You don't have to apologize. Your emotional reactions are valid regardless of the game at hand or whatever else. I do echo what Taly said about taking a break if you need though, take care of yourself <3

Thanks. <3 Taly’s adorable kitty pics are helping a lot. Sometimes, I just take Mafia way too seriously and I need to stop doing that.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Pvt (Who he said he town read, didn't seem to be aware he;d been ICed.)

I wonder if this can be considered AI at all considering Moment's involvement in this game

Well, it’s kind of like what’s the point of townreading the IC for any reasons. It’s funny anyway.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Well, it’s kind of like what’s the point of townreading the IC for any reasons. It’s funny anyway.

I just mean I think scum would be more likely to be aware of who the IC was, but considering Moment's activity I'm unsure

It would depend on when they had that convo, because it was the very first thing FG mentioned after Ank/RC flips.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Krazy

-

Taly

Dannflor

-

Nancy Drew 39

Moment

-

TheBrie

PvtUrist

-

Gamma Emerald

Calling the current flips all gon be green

The_Bread is town

Gamma is town

Moment is lynch bait

there's 2 wolves

This makes no sense, because DT was definitely protecting someone, and the only ones being pushed to be lynched in lieu of DT were PB/Brie. PB was pushing moment/Brie.

DT also pushed Gamma and SS pushed Krazy but neither of those two were at risk for leaving over DT.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Krazy

-

Taly

Dannflor

-

Nancy Drew 39

Moment

-

TheBrie

PvtUrist

-

Gamma Emerald

Calling the current flips all gon be green

The_Bread is town

Gamma is town

Moment is lynch bait

there's 2 wolves

This makes no sense, because DT was definitely protecting someone, and the only ones being pushed to be lynched in lieu of DT were PB/Brie. PB was pushing moment/Brie.

DT also pushed Gamma and SS pushed Krazy but neither of those two were at risk for leaving over DT.

Dann/Taly makes 0 sense, since no one was pushing either of them. Taly has been my #1 townread since the getgo and that hasn’t changed. She also was adamantly opposed to PB mislynch. Why does scum!Taly adamantly oppose PB mislynch. What is the scum motivation in doing that?

As for Dann, why does scum!Dann IC Urist, when you were the main person pushing him, pre-dance?

I do respect your Gamma read but mechanically, I don’t see how she can be town here? Because I have a hard gut townread on Taly, similar to SC 2 and I was right there and I doubt I’m wrong here either.

Based on our PT and the passion I see coming from many of Dann’s posts, I have reason to think this isn’t scum!Dann here.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Krazy

-

Taly

Dannflor

-

Nancy Drew 39

Moment

-

TheBrie

PvtUrist

-

Gamma Emerald

Calling the current flips all gon be green

The_Bread is town

Gamma is town

Moment is lynch bait

there's 2 wolves

This makes no sense, because DT was definitely protecting someone, and the only ones being pushed to be lynched in lieu of DT were PB/Brie. PB was pushing moment/Brie.

DT also pushed Gamma and SS pushed Krazy but neither of those two were at risk for leaving over DT.

Dann/Taly makes 0 sense, since no one was pushing either of them. Taly has been my #1 townread since the getgo and that hasn’t changed. She also was adamantly opposed to PB mislynch. Why does scum!Taly adamantly oppose PB mislynch. What is the scum motivation in doing that?

As for Dann, why does scum!Dann IC Urist, when you were the main person pushing him, pre-dance?

I do respect your Gamma read but mechanically, I don’t see how she can be town here? Because I have a hard gut townread on Taly, similar to SC 2 and I was right there and I doubt I’m wrong here either.

Based on our PT and the passion I see coming from many of Dann’s posts, I have reason to think this isn’t scum!Dann here.

So, if not Gamma, one of Brie/moment makes sense due to my DT protection theory. But both are extremely unlikely to be scum and I do tend to agree with moment being possible lynchbait.

So, gun to head, I think it’s probably Brie/Gamma but both Taly and Dann think Gamma over Brie abd Krazy was wrong on PB, so I think I should sheep Taly on Gamma.

I also didn’t like her sudden switch to DT at the end. It read to me like she was in full survivalist mode and really didn’t care which of Brie/DT got lynched, so long as it wasn’t her.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I'm going to work toward towncasing the townbloc, too.

I feel like the response I got on the last page concerning

Gamma/Urist

completely ignored my entire read progression and thought proccess throughout this game.

This is virtually the one situation I wanted to avoid.

We're low on pairs. People do convenient read-reversals to scumread me or FINALLY voice a scumread on me - when I feel I've gamesolved - and now the game goes down to whether less-active town do something or we lose to scum via deadline or mislynch.

Yes, we can’t ignore the clock that’s ticking, which is how I knew PB had to be town at the end, because it made 0 sense for scum!her to put forth the Dann/me, Krazy/Taly endgame theory to speed the game along if he were scum. He clearly had the deadline in mind, so realizing that, I cannot see any world where Taly is ever scum here. Krazy has also been watching the clock. I’m sure I’ve mentioned that a few times as well.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Nancy

where are you on

TheBrie

at the moment?

Well mechanically, if you, me, Krazy and Dann are all town, then one scum would have to be in moment/Brie. I’m respecting Ank/RC reads and thinking it’s not moment, so I don’t agree with PB’s moment WIFOM theory.

The question is which pair do we lynch first? I am not willing to lynch you/Krazy Dann over them, so that’s where I’m at rn.

[Nancy Drew 39]

@PvtUrist,

I

strongly

feel that Gamma is using this situation to his advantage to pocket you. I understand you won't readily believe this because you feel the current game state is "too easy." I understand that fear, I had it a lot earlier in the game.

It means I can't just be lazy because scum are actually putting up a fight now. I've been looking over the game and rereading things. I am

very confident

the solve is

Gamma/Brie

. I'm going to do my best to show you why. I hope you will read what I have to say and balance it with your feelings about the game state to see how likely it is.

I also have very very strong reasons to town read Taly, Krazy, and Nancy.

Let me start with Gamma and Brie, and why I think this solve is correct.

The basis of this case hinges on the fact that scum don't want to pair up with each other. I don't think it's hard to accept that scum avoided that at all costs this game. It's too risky. If just one member of the pair comes under fire, the scum team could lose two members just like that. There are rare instances where it might work, but I think it always increases mafia win rate to pair with town here. So, why is this fact so important? It's important because DT, Gamma, and Brie (my solve) were among the final players to pair up.

This means that if there was more than one scum amongst the players who paired after Nancy and I, they

had

to make sure they didn't pair with each other. Think about it. If you entertain the possibility that Gamma and theBrie could be scum, DT

absolutely does not

want to pair there. He's likely going to be one of the first lynches (and he was) with how the game was looking, if he pairs with either of his team mates then he's basically throwing the game.

With all of that in mind, let's look at how discussion for dance partners played out:

Spoiler: DT/Gamma Interactions

who are paired up rn

or rather who is single and should i seduce

Let me set the scene. This is post 3153, page 127. Due to activity, DT hasn't had the chance to pair with anyone yet. The other unpaired players include: TheBrie, Gamma, Something_Smart, PvtUrist, Moment, and Allomancer. Three ladies. Four gentlemen.

DT

has to choose between S_S, Brie, and Gamma to take to the dance.

Gamma

why are you scum

Gamma comes into the thread and this is how DT engages with her, given DT had previously said he was looking for someone towny to pair up with, this makes it pretty easy to distance Gamma despite the small sample size of ladies he has to choose from.

Gamma

why are you scum

The fuck?

Reading through this exchange, try to place yourself in Gamma's shoes. Ask yourself if you would respond to DT in this way as town, specifically the way Gamma progresses her read on DT.

saying people are okay with pairing you with SS is basically saying they're okay with lynching you with dance 1 at this point, in case the subtext here isn't clear

...ouch?

I still haven't really seen much explanation of why I'm such a consensus scumread. I'm suspecting that it actually is just because I'm a replacement.

you are being too concerned about how you are being viewed by tohers

I rather think I've shown the appropriate amount of concern, given that I seem to be essentially an automatic lynch as soon as the dance starts...

Who is U2?

One of the best bands ever

don't be discouraged.

maybe uh you can show your townieness enough that i will town read you and be your partner

because at this point maybe nobody wants to pair up with you for being so scummy

In the midst of this interaction, DT opens the door to S_S to be a potential dance partner.

And you bring this up now why, DT?

And you bring this up now why, DT?

i brought it up before for sure you just ignored me i think

Also despite you having over 100 posts until now I haven't interacted with you at all. So you coming out with this feels like a massive crock of shit.

Like, I actually am calling you a flat out liar about you claiming to come on at the same time as me.

This is so... not genuine.

Like, I actually am calling you a flat out liar about you claiming to come on at the same time as me.

how the fuck am i a liar?

i never fucking lie as either alignment

like as scum i would definitely scum read you for things i would scum read as town to begin with so i dont understand what you mean by calling me a liar lol

Like, I actually am calling you a flat out liar about you claiming to come on at the same time as me.

how the fuck am i a liar?

i never fucking lie as either alignment

like as scum i would definitely scum read you for things i would scum read as town to begin with so i dont understand what you mean by calling me a liar lol

I understand people can think the same thoughts as both alignments.

But I cannot for a second believe you're being truthful about when you've been active.

On a side note, fuck I wanted to pair with Krazy. I was trying to figure out a read list so I could determine Krazy's alignment before forming the PT so I could shitpost there.

Gamma fabricates this scum read on DT out of the blue because she apparently believes DT has been lying about when he's been active. It's such an easy thing to fact check and such a ludicrous thing to scum read someone for that I can't believe this is town!Gamma, I have to believe that this is scum!Gamma fabricating an excuse to scum read DT and using emotion to make it look legit.

Townleaning Gamma and Pvt off of recent content.

what content does gamma have?

Like, I actually am calling you a flat out liar about you claiming to come on at the same time as me.

how the fuck am i a liar?

i never fucking lie as either alignment

like as scum i would definitely scum read you for things i would scum read as town to begin with so i dont understand what you mean by calling me a liar lol

I understand people can think the same thoughts as both alignments. But I cannot for a second believe you're being truthful about when you've been active.

On a side note, fuck I wanted to pair with Krazy. I was trying to figure out a read list so I could determine Krazy's alignment before forming the PT so I could shitpost there.

I mean. what don't you think am I being truthful about? I have been active but like realistically spent like 30 minutes for 3, 4 days out of how many days? i think 8? days we've been playing for? maybe i am thinking it's more than that by mistake because the week's been hectic but why are you calling me a liar for no reason? make me understnad

by some miracle you post whenever i am in the thread which is a rare occasion

Here is the lie. You say I post when you're in the thread, which SHOULD make the inverse true (you post when I'm in the thread). Despite this I remember 0 of your posting. So that does not compute.

by some miracle you post whenever i am in the thread which is a rare occasion

Here is the lie. You say I post when you're in the thread, which SHOULD make the inverse true (you post when I'm in the thread). Despite this I remember 0 of your posting. So that does not compute.

dude i am nto fucking lying. maybe you can iso me and see how many times i saw your post/commented about you which is a lot in terms of how many different times i entered the thread (only 3, 4 days tbh)

Here is the lie. You say I post when you're in the thread, which SHOULD make the inverse true (you post when I'm in the thread). Despite this I remember 0 of your posting. So that does not compute.

Not necessarily. Some people are really forgettable.

I agree but claiming something like that makes sirens blare for me.

Called out on the stupidness of it. "Sirens still blaring."

Gamma who should be your beau?

Well I'm not pairing with DT lol.

Dr. Worm would have been a good second imo but that's also taken. Out of the rest I need to look over Moment, Allo maybe, and Urist I guess I'd be okay with.

And with that, DT and Gamma have quickly and forcibly decreased the chances they'll ever pair with each other. Also, consider this: Gamma apparently had such a visceral reaction to DT here, scum reading him enough based off it that she would remove him from the pool of gentleman she'd pair with, but never once pushed DT any further on this or tried to convince others that DT was scum. This whole interaction specifically is why I thought Gamma pushing Brie first instead of DT at the beginning of the dance didn't make sense. I highly doubt Gamma would just forget about this with how emotional it apparently made her.

Spoiler: TheBrie

DoubtingThomas and Pvturist haven't asked me though, and Moment and Allo have. Still stuck between them. So if people want to be helpful, they can tell me why I should go with one of the other, or why I should hold out for another invitation.

Good night.

Important to note that Brie specifically says DT hasn't asked her yet in this post.

i kinda skimmed

poeple scum read me, why? maybe i can clarify. all ive seen really is 'i cant process where his reads are coming from' which is funny because as scum i am way more thorough and logical with my reads :/

i think i am at the point where i'd rather just out in pre dance if i dont get brie maybe

we'll see how SS and gamma posts

I already outlined this before as being scummy when I cased DT. This post comes only 15 posts after Brie's where she said DT hadn't asked her yet. DT makes this scummy-as-fuck "oh maybe I'll just go out pre-dance" claim, lamenting it as a consequence of him not being able to get Brie. He never fucking asked Brie. Why? Because he was never really trying to get her.

i want thebrie as my partner but it is likely moment becomes partners with thebrie i think

so i am thinking who out of SS and gamma is more townie?

honestly wouldnt mind uh not having a pair but like that'd be gamethrow or somethingsomething

i am thinking SS at the moment

Again he mentions how he wants Brie. He still hasn't asked her to dance with him. He's just accepting that Moment and Brie will become partners without truly fighting for it at all. At this point in the game, Brie was town read by most people. Why doesn't DT try harder to go after a potentially strong!town in Brie as opposed to SS who most people had stated around this point in the game might be a good first lynch? It doesn't make sense not to push harder for Brie, unless Brie is his partner, meaning taking a very low town for his partner becomes the optimal decision.

The second half of this post also read not genuine when you consider the exchange DT and Gamma already had previously.

something abotu her posts man

for me, it's that i didnt like your self-consciousness about how you are being viewed by others and gamma just having wolfy pop ins all the time

and then thinking it is unlikely all 3 left over ladies are wolves and brie looking to seemingly have consistent urge to try to solve people

I don't see where people are coming from on Brie being scum and if I'm being considered to be so towny then I should think that my own opinion should hold some weight.

Assume Brie is scum. Why wait to accept my offer and still be questioning Allo? It's clear that she knows that pairing with him is more likely to get her lynched whereas people townread me.

if she speed accepts her offer when people are calling her scum, what then?

The tides change, RC and a few other people start questioning Brie town. Keep this in mind.

this is so fucking frustrating because i'm not even 100% on brie being scum. i just think she's... not locktown. i don't want her treated as locktown. there's enough agreed locktowns that we can work around her

so right now I either play against my wincondition or be forced to make an incredibly divisive play that will only see justification part of the time

Brie, I'd appreciate if you didn't accept my offer for the time being, until this is cleared up.

I'm not even sure how I feel about TheBrie

I just think that whoever you get paired with, Moment, is going to end up being the conftown pair not nightkilled before endgame and I want to be super choosy about it

Here are my terms: accept them or don't, but I should hope that you at least consider them.

I ask SS, and you don't let your small doubt on Brie turn into a deathtunnel simply because you don't 100% townread her.

Something Smart, would you like to dance?

Time to go to bed.

i think i'm back to thinking brie is town

ugh now i think that SS could be scum

why is mafia like this

RC waffles.

i even acutely know ahead of time that this waffling is going to get wolfread but i can't do anything about it cuz like

fuuck

ss questioned basically every inclusion in the locktown pool (taly, nd, etc) then tried to get him(her?)self hitched with moment

I'll be nice and not wolf read you for that. In recent experience I've seen some of the worst misreads, and it's left be deeply paranoid of my own gut, and kinda appreciative of people who aren't dogmatically certain of everything. That said, I'm still going to be paranoid that you are actually a wolf. You and everyone. But seriously, I'll try to trust myself and people. it'll be better when we have something concrete to go off.

One thing that could be said on SS's behalf is that she hasn't accepted Moment yet, even though she had the opportunity.
Now I'm pretty sure I currently can't accept Moment.

Oh, and Moment, if you read this, did you ever answer my question about Allomancer?

As far as I'm aware you're still able to accept him if you choose to.

Well if I can...

Moment, I would be honoured to dance with you.


@Mod, is a gentleman ask one lady, then a second lady, can the first lady still accept? The offer wasn't withdrawn in this situation.

Moment's offer to SS occurred on Feb 12th, 10:39pm PST. Brie accepted it February 13th, 12:46am PST.

Two hours

after Moment extended his invitation to SS and specifically asked Brie to wait to accept his invitation, Brie accepted it anyway. Now, I know Brie has said it's because she wasn't sure she could get back on before the deadline. I hate to pick on activity issues, but I find this hard to believe. The deadline was about 30 hours away from when she accepted Moment's invitation. The fact of the matter was, Brie already had a standing invitation from Allo, so it wasn't as if she had to spend time a bunch of time to make sure she got a pairing. All she'd have to do is make sure to log on and say "I accept X invitation" in bold before the deadline. The fact that she blatantly disrespects Moment's wishes and accepts his invitation so readily only two hours after he issued an invitation to SS is just too much for me to ignore.

Because, if my solve is correct, her hasty actions make a lot more sense. If Moment and SS had paired, it would be disastrous for this hypothetical scum team. That would force DT to pair with either Gamma or Brie, and the other lady to pair with Allo or PvT, both easy mislynches. The hastiness of Brie's actions here make a lot more sense if this is the case.

The strangeness of all these interactions makes a lot more sense if DT/Gamma/Brie is S/S/S. The last few days of the pre-dance read like an awkward dance between the three to

not

be paired up with each other. I want other players to go back and read those pages themselves and see if they see the same things I do. I realize it's possible I'm conf biasing to the extreme here, but I do think there are some things I've outlined above that are just so unnatural for town players to say or do as well as for them to be S/T interactions.

I understand feeling like the game state is "too easy." But I think it's because town really has played well and Taly/Krazy/Nancy are all town.

Assume that this is true, that we really do have the dream town bloc. What is the scum team game plan? ICing and pocketing you seems obvious, throws suspicion on me, sets up Gamma to get into late game. Note DT's mention of how Gamma is "obv scum" but can be allowed to live because of you. I think scum came into this dance thinking they were pretty much fucked, and decided to make things as messy as possible by hard bussing.

I urge you to take a critical look at Gamma. She has gone from Taly as "lock town" to scum reading him with you because it's convenient, because this is what she needs to win the game. Like... LOOK at #5254.

All that being said. Pvt

, if you truly think I'm wrong (or scum as it may be), you NEED to try your best to convince people. If you really think Taly is scum, what you've done so far isn't going to cut it. You're the IC, people HAVE to listen to you. I don't understand why you say you can't case or just won't do it, because if you're confident than we really need to understand why and you need to be fucking persuasive.

I'm pretty set in the read that there are 0 scum in Taly/Krazy/Nancy at this point. If there are really two scum in the town bloc as you suggest, I don't know how we win this game. It's going to be hard to get the two town players within the town bloc to realize that if it's the case.

If it is the case, and you strongly believe that, you HAVE to be vocal and transparent as to why so we can discuss it. I don't want to shut you down or discredit you. Even if you fucking think I'm the most likely scum, explain why. Even if it purely has to do with the game state, keep explaining why, don't stop repeating yourself until everyone can engage with you and you can get feedback and people have an actually true chance to consider your thoughts. The discussion needs to happen so if you're this sure of your reads on Gamma and Brie, you gotta try harder than this for town. Please.

I will try to do a part 2 tomorrow for my town cases on Nancy/Taly/Krazy if I have time.

I rest my fucking case.

I think I’m mindmelding with you on this. I just can’t see how Brie is townier than you/Krazy/Taly. Both Ank/RC hardtownread moment. And Brie lines up with the player DT was likely protecting unless PB was right about it being moment but I don’t think that’s likely.

However, If I was ignoring wagonmics and POE, I think Brie is still townier than Gamma, so probably Gamma over Brie, first?

[Nancy Drew 39]

I thought of multiple reasons on how

TheBrie

could be associative with

Gamma+DT

outside some of the quotes

Dann

mentioned.

I don't want to hardpush that just yet because I townread

Moment

more and the game depends on his read on

Gamma+TheBrie

since

Urist

hasn't shown that he's deeply evaluated the reasons to scumread either.

Yes, I agree, despite his inactivity, moment does seem to have a much more thorough grasp on the gamestate than Urist.

So I think we should probably trust RC/Ank on their town!moment read.

I just don’t want to entertain rn that any of my top 3 towns could be scum here. But I want to hear moment’s assesment of the gamestate because no offense to Urist but I trust moment’s reads over yours.

[Nancy Drew 39]

don't ask gamma

u should ask SS

i kinda want gamma to just get left out cuz they're not playing anyway

of the remaining gents i don't really especially want any of them to live soo :shrug:

I sincerely doubt that Taly is obvtown.

I sincerely doubt that Taly is obvtown.

Your slot is one of the scummiest so

Point being? Doesn't make my statement any less true.

I've only read the posts of Taly since I replaced in. But in my experience, he plays very similarly as both alignments.

S_S

, do you believe

Krazy+Me

is scum/town or even scum/scum?

Statistically speaking it's probably not scum-scum. Krazy doesn't seem easy to read so I don't really think I'm qualified to read there.

Better yet, if you believe

Krazy

IS pocketing me, then how do you think pairs should go?

I'm fine with you pairing with Krazy as long as you think you'd eventually be able to see through his pocketing, because by definition as long as he is alive you will also be alive to catch him and leave on him.

If you wouldn't feel comfortable reading him, there don't seem to be any other townread gentlemen left. Probably pick one that you at least have a decent idea is town and think you can read pretty well, and then regardless of what other people say if you end up townreading him you won't be lynched.

Who do YOU want to pair with?

First of all, not someone who's overtly scumreading me, for instance even if Allo offered I'd refuse because if town he'd probably just leave immediately.

However, I do want to pair with someone who is a pretty easy lynch (though not necessarily widely scumread), because that seems to be how my slot is treated. (I still have the feeling that this is mostly because I'm the only replacement... discrimination ) That way, if we do end up getting mislynched at least two question marks will be removed at once, and if the person I pick turns out to be scum we get to see scum squirm to try to keep us alive for as long as possible.

I don't see a scenario where scum would *want* a scum/scum pairing unless they were forced into it.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. If two scum are confident in their ability to make it far, a scum-scum pairing allows scum to win with a town-town pairing still alive, which could be a huge boon.

@S_S, you've been in the game a fair bit now that I think you should have been able to form some reads based on what you've seen so far. You don't have to be explicitly detailed or super confident, I just want to hear your thoughts on the players who've made the most impression on you. Your ISO is a lot of fluff, useless questioning, and a little bit of setup spec. I need to see something more concrete.

Sure. Bear in mind that my reads are still nebulous. I can make them look concrete, but don't expect me to stick to them.
Townreads are, in playerlist order, RC, Allo, Worm, Vedith, Ank, Taly.
Nulltowns are Moment, Thomas, Pink.

1371 is a post I randomly came across while looking through stuff. Noting it here because it is the source of both my Allo and my Vedith townreads.

like the entire dann/nancy pair is excluded
taly/krazy is included... but i'm not even sure that krazy is villa so locktowning them becomes pretty convenient

ack

moment/brie and nd/dannflor

RC is really good at this game, so I’m going to trust his reads and my number #1 townread. How anyone could possibly think Taly could be scum here after PB flip, just boggles my mind.


VOTE: Gamma

[Nancy Drew 39]

RC and Ank were NKed.

It's completely reasonable to assume that they were NKed off read accuracy too.

I want Moment to come in and engage. He should have a stake in this too. I never found a solid reason to scumread him beyond PoE.

Yes, so in case the deep wolf theory has any merit, I think it’s safest to go with Gamma first but I really don’t want to entertain that possibility yet.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I'm about mentally willing to just sheep nancy here and get this flip, but if rc was killed for reads accuracy, wouldn't the brie be the killer? He said he liked her for town at the verrrry end of his iso but he spent a lot of the second page of his iso pushing her to go early in the dance. I'm not the rc whisperer and I guess I'm just not in love with Gamma scum. Maybe Gamma is just a lot better at pocketing me than she used to but her progression on my slot at least doesn't look awful. Then again she did have that surge of activity post intermission. I would prefer brie first I guess.

Well, I definitely believe that DT fell on his sword for his buddy. He flipping out at me, for suggesting he post in his PT with SS, makes 0 sense otherwise. Why couldn’t scum!DT make a few really townie posts to fool SS, right? DT survivalist scum plays alot better than you’ve seen here, so I think he was deliberately trying to get lynched.

And Gamma was in no danger of being flipped over DT, so that’s where I’m hesitating. If it weren’t for that I’d be a lot more confident in Gamma scum and then there’s Urist’s Gamma read and fwiw, Urist was the only one to correctly nail scum!Duck in that Nsg Treestump game, so I can’t just completely dismiss his Gamma read.

However, unless Urist are right about about one or more deep wolves and I think 2 isn’t very likely, how can at least one of Gamma and Brie/moment not be scum?

I really don’t think it’s moment, however.

I still have some low level paranoia about Brie for reasons I can’t elaborate on, so of course I could be fooled and Dann’s case about her disregarding moment’s preference to pair with SS by accepting, didn’t sit right with me.

And while I have trouble parsing Gamma and think there’s a possibility that Urist is right, I still think Brie is townier than Gamma, so that’s where I’m at rn.

So, this is the crux of it, I think.

I wish I could be more helpful. :/

[Nancy Drew 39]

I feel like I should just accept I'm wrong on Gamma and take the flip but it just feels really weird to not be the one driving a gamma lynch if she is scum, lol

Are you the Gamma whisperer like I am with Creature?

But seriously, all evidence points to Brie and moment not being scum together, so if Gamma is town here, who is scum!Brie’s partner?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Like Nancy, yeah that's the end of his iso, but that was something he said right before intermission.... After having spent several posts saying Brie had to go early and that was why he didn't want moment to pair with her. He flipped his read on her like 4 times so you shouldn't just cherry pick the end of his iso when scum wouldn't.

That being said I don't know who the second scum is. I probably would go gamma next after the brie simply due to the activity ping post intermission even despite her progression on me in predance looking natural.

VOTE: thebrie

I'll hammer gamma in 4 hours if people don't want the bread first.

How was I “cherry picking”? Did you miss the post where RC wanted moment/Brie, me/Dann as the final two pairs?

[Nancy Drew 39]

I'm still more confident on

Gamma

solely based on the numerous points I've made and the strength of them.

I think

Brie

is scum and

Moment

is town, but it doesn't make sense for me to vote for a lower scumread versus a higher.

I do understand your POV though. Most games I've played in, there's always at least one scum lynch that I didn't initially push

(

DT

in this instance As I was the 4th vote there, even if he was a weaker scumread.)

Well, that’s what I’ve been saying, Brie has been townier than Gamma, all things considered.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I guess partly I'm also like, if somehow everything is awful and there's 0 scum in M-TB at this point, then mathematically there would have to be scum somewhere in Nancefloor and Taly. A red flip in M-TB let's us lynch Gamma knowing confidently that Pvt's 'double deepscum' theory is flawed. A double green flip in M-TB would let us know that there is a deep scum with mathematic certainty. So strategically, I feel like it makes more sense to lead into M-TB, so that we have the appropriate level of paranoia when thinking about the arguments of the proposed final 2 pairings.

I'm not sure that actually makes sense and at this point we really should just lynch the strongest scumreads and clearly for most of you that's Gamma. But I think that's one of the reasons I'm chafing just a bit with the Gamma hammer.

Pedit: Yeah, I appreciate that Taly. I think you've put a lot of thought into your case. <3

But if you think a double m/bt green flip, points to a deep wolf with certainty, and would still lynch Gamma anyway then, I’m still missing the logic here. RC had more confidence in Gamma scum than Brie scum and Brie has been objectively townier in general. So why does the order matter, especially since I think as Taly and Dann have both alredy, there’s more chance of Gamma flipping scum than Brie.

[Nancy Drew 39]

<3

It's either you or

Moment

casting the vote now. XP I think the entire town is on the same page.

I trusted you on your case to

DT

and it's kind of funny how we're in opposite positions with

Gamma

now. XD

DT was open wolfing, like I keep saying. That’s why I couldn’t understand how close the DT/Brie wagons were, before it suddenly went belly up and DT got hammered. Why didn’t DT just post in his PT and let Brie get lynched over him?

Or maybe that was just scum WIFOM to save someone else? But I think DT had a decent chance of not being lynched if he hadn’t been open wolfing, so I’m still very confused by it all. My head is hurting.

[Nancy Drew 39]

How was I “cherry picking”? Did you miss the post where RC wanted moment/Brie, me/Dann as the final two pairs?

No I did see that, but I reread RC's iso and he second guessed himself a lot. RC has a habit of identifying scumreads and then secondguessing himself out of them. Of the two times I rolled scum against RC, the first time he spent the entire game insisting I was lynchbait (as Nicolas Cage where I just spend the game lolcatting), and then on my other alt he initially scumread me but then I pushed him, actually in a way not totally dissimilar to how Brie pushed him here, and then he flipped his read. So I guess Brie's play here very slightly reminds me of how I play scum against RC. Doesn't mean she's lockscum, but I think bearing in mind that when RC changes his mind a bunch of times, and at one point says "alarm bells", that that's not something to just ignore even if he later calls the pairing 'locktown'.

So, what do you want to do then? Gamma or Brie?

I’m getting really confused now.

We have to make a decision. Ideally, the clock would not be ticking and we could wait for moment to weigh in, because I’d really like his input.

So, I hate that this time pressure is making that a problem. :/

[Nancy Drew 39]

But seriously, all evidence points to Brie and moment not being scum together, so if Gamma is town here, who is scum!Brie’s partner?

That's pretty much where I'm at. If Brie flipped red and Moment flipped green, I'd probably just want to lynch Gamma at that point anyway.

I basically more feel the lynch order is incorrect more than I feel like the solve is necessarily wrong. But I'm not super sure that Brie is scum, and I feel like the last time I tried to towncase Gamma I actually ended up second-guessing myself, since like 90% of the reason I think she might be town is about her play specifically in regard to me. But that part of her play isn't irrelevant; we have both played games almost entirely based around trying to pocket each other as a wincon LOL. Still I'm hardly at a point where she's 100% locktown, I mostly just feel like her wanting to be paired with me, while asking me for detailed reads in predance, all seems like stuff town gamma would do. She seemed hopeful we would pair but also wanted to be pretty confident in her read of me which I think is how she would play it as town based on our past games. Also, if her partners are DT-TB, I don't really totally understand her surge in confidence. So if Gamma is scum, but M-TB is T/T, then I'd rather hear whether Pvt thinks Taly or Dancefloor is the deep scum.

And more than anything else I'm just exhausted by this game at this point so I really don't want to keep fighting, particularly if the win simply is Gamma-TB. I guess I should have just accepted PB's idea and just scorched earthed everything I didn't strongly townread but meh, that's just not how I've been approaching this game.

(expired on 2019-02-20 18:00:21)

I would really prefer to hear what moment thinks about Brie vs. Gamma and if we had more time, I’d insist on it. Unfortunately, we don’t have that luxury and I hope that he either posts his thoughts soon or we’re just right, either way. I don’t know what else we can do. \_0_/

[Nancy Drew 39]

But if you think a double m/bt green flip, points to a deep wolf with certainty, and would still lynch Gamma anyway then, I’m still missing the logic here. RC had more confidence in Gamma scum than Brie scum and Brie has been objectively townier in general. So why does the order matter, especially since I think as Taly and Dann have both alredy, there’s more chance of Gamma flipping scum than Brie.

Well, it's more who we'd have a chance to sort things with. Pvt seems to feel like there's likely a deepwolf based on his reads, so lynching him before M-TB means we don't get a chance to evaluate his reads when there is total confidence that there is one. I guess it kinda depends on whether you think his perspective would be worth having after a M-TB flip.

Well we will lose either one of Urist’s/moment’s perspectives in any case, once we hammer on either. If moment were more active, that would be an easier decision. Can we afford to wait to hear from moment first, because that would be ideal?

[Nancy Drew 39]

DT+Gamma

could've pre-planned a

Brie

bus-lynch so they can acquire townreads - because it seemed to be the easiest PoE option out of their 3 pairs to campaign.

None of their 3 pairs were townread, and were the last 3 pairs made. It was sensible to think one of their pairs would be targeted to get lynched first - and so that was the narrative they pushed forth.

I don't know if

DT

was protecting anyone but

Gamma

, who he kept distancing from while he voted

Brie

.

When

DT

became the most likely to lynch when both of our pairs

Dancy/Kaly

had voted him,

Gamma

and then

Brie

jumped onto that wagon.

The

DT

lynch forced scum to redirect their plan to a partner they didn't want to lynch. I assume that's why

Gamma

was pretty silent after

DT's

scumflip until I proposed an associative between them.

TheBrie

has really only responded to the gamestate when it was relevant to her, and I've seen her towngame as well - she's typically far more focused and willing to solve the game rather than let it be played while she stands by with otherwise minimal thoughts.

Gamma

is the best lynch right now since he's collective the strongest scumread. I don't think we'd get 5 votes for

Brie

like we do for

Gamma

here.

DT could have absolutely been protecting Gamma but I don’t recall anyone proposing Gamma be the first lynch, so I don’t think we can rule out that someone who was being pushed instead of DT was one of his buddies either. The only ones who were not being pushed to be lynched over DT (who are still in the game) - by ANYONE - was you, Dann, me; correct?

[Nancy Drew 39]

My WIM falls a little bit the longer

Gamma/Urist

stay alive.

I've 1v1ed so many times but it's very rare for me to have such a one-sided 1v2.

That sounds bad but it's true.

Well, I’m trusting you and RC reads, plus I agree with you and Dann, that Gamma is greater scum equity than Brie.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I don't think Moment has been reading much, so I don't know his opinions will be all that helpful.

I disagree. I think he has a really good grasp of the gamestate, despite that. Like I’ve already said, if time weren’t an issue, I’d insist on it.

How about you Brie? Who do you think is Gamma’s likely partner? Why don’t you have an opinion on that?

[Nancy Drew 39]

I've 1v1ed so many times but it's very rare for me to have such a one-sided 1v2.

That sounds bad but it's true.

I know it felt like that last night but I imagine Pvt feels like this is a 5v2, which has gotta feel weird since he's the IC

I guess it would help if he had said something like, "Man Gamma really seemed to be trying to sort me pre-intermission, there's no way she was scum that just planned to IC me"... but it seems like they probably just didn't talk or barely talked at all. Doesn't make this any easier.

Also there's part of me that thinks DT-Moment makes sense if DT really had no idea wtf was going on so even though I've kinda thought he might be town sometimes, there is a chance the scum team just totally fell apart. Still leaves the question of who Moment's partner would be, though. And I probably would at that point just agree with you anyway that Gamma was the next best choice. So for me M-TB are two separate slots I've second guessed a lot which increases my desire to just see their flips.

RC locktown’d moment. As Urist has said, what reasons do you have for thinking moment is scum here?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Also if anyone has scumreads on Moment

other than inactivity

, do tell.

@Krazy

[Nancy Drew 39]

Taly can you translate what is going on in this game when you get a chance -- viewtopic.php?t=78138&f=84&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

am I right in understanding that this is simultaneously a town and scum game for you?

Quick Both-Game Reads

Scum/scum feels unlikely on anyone at the moment.

Pine
Townread early posts. Unhelpful argument against Elsa's B7 claim, but there was a quick vote on him in C14 and I want that vote explained.
Light Townread/Light Scumread - Unsure of Game

Persivul
I like his push for content, but I'm not in favor of his votes and reasons thus far. Not getting a town/town feel with overall posts.
Unconfident Townread/Unconfident Scumread - Unsure of Game

xyzzy
I want to townread based on a lack of defense from anyone and lack of cohesion with playerlist. Though several posts don't make sense from a town POV.
Light Townread/Scumread - Unsure of Game

Elsa
Claimed Doc in B7. Quick L-1'd in C14 suggests he's town, though based on his overall posting, I'm not ruling out Doc/Scum.
B7 IC/C14 Unconfident Townread

Maki Harukawa
I doubt scum/scum, and I can see town somewhere... But I'm unconfident in that, and I feel my case on her regarding C14 is stronger.
B7 ???/C14 Scumread

Irrelephant
I found Irrelephant's entire ISO to be pushing for discussion in some manner, even to his gut double-vote which L-1'd Elsa in B7. There must be town/town in this game and this is my strongest read on that. He was L-1'd quickly in B7, and his C14 vote feels sound.
B7 Townread/C14 Townread

Irrelephant/Elsa register as town/town to some degree.

So I'm not voting to lynch either of them as of my current reads.

And yeah, I'm actively saying "no" to any wagon on them.

Is this the really best example you can come up with?

I would have powerlynched Taly for this post alone.

[Nancy Drew 39]

{Dannflor, Dr Worm, Vedith, Ankamius, Firebringer, SS, TheBrie, Taly} town.

That leaves {PvtUrist, Krazy, RC, Allomancer, DT, Nancy, Gamma, Pink Ball}.

That's right, I should go reread Moment in Witches Ball again. My main concern with Moment so far this game is him not being demonstrably wrong about anything yet. Maybe I'm just jealous? I just don't get how he got SS town, Vedith town within 30 posts of his iso. Like, strong game for him I guess if he's green.

Moment left pre-dance in that didn’t he?

Maybe Forgotten Hourglass, is a better example of town!moment, because she was one of the first ones to nail scum!Maria and he never let up on his Maria scumread but town was a clusterfuck in that game. I was actually grateful to scum for putting me out of my misery early.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Basically I've been asking myself this whole game if the Moment who wrote 2603 in this game is the same Moment that thought Brian Skies, Gamma Emerald, and Sakura were scum in Witches Ball.

Can you link/quote 2603 for me?

I have to say, that if you’re relying on one of her arguably weaker towngames to accurately assess her reads in this one, you’re doing her a disservice. Also, she left pre-dance, so how can you discredit those reads, when she didn’t even have a few flips to make her reads on like she does here?

ISO her in FH, you will get a very different result.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I was just looking through her games played for a game with a scum PT, saw that game had one, and then got *really confused* when I tried to actually read it LOL

That post I quoted was a blatant scumtell. That kind of post almost never comes from town. Was this recent?

[Nancy Drew 39]

I was just looking through her games played for a game with a scum PT, saw that game had one, and then got *really confused* when I tried to actually read it LOL

That post I quoted was a blatant scumtell. That kind of post almost never comes from town. Was this recent?

And your pronouns are confusing tf out of me here. Taly is a he and moment is a she.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Like the 26? posts of Labyrinth are the main basis of your understanding of Scum Taly, right Nancy?

It’s definitely better than the one you referenced, by a longshot. I was right about him in SC 2, wasn’t I, so where is this even coming from?

[Nancy Drew 39]

2603:

{Dannflor, Dr Worm, Vedith, Ankamius, Firebringer, SS, TheBrie, Taly} town.

That leaves {PvtUrist, Krazy, RC, Allomancer, DT, Nancy, Gamma, Pink Ball}.

How is this one of moment’s best posts in the game?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Spoiler:

Scum gentlemen are among {Krazy, RC, Allo, DT}.
Scum ladies among {GE, PB}.

Decided just now to leave Urist out becaues of 3283.

Moment could you go into your townreads a bit? I have a reasonably strong townread on you and I think town needs to be able to figure that out too

I believe I've justified most of them, not that anyone reads anything I post (as evidenced by PB).

PvtUrist I decided to sort as town for his insistence that he should be lynched soon. I believe this to be genuine, and something that comes from town.

Dr Worm I townread for a similar reason, which I pointed out here.

Ok I reread Worm's iso now that I'm like 60% sure of his main and I'm still not sure but I'm not sure I entirely want him in my bottom two, and if I'm redoing my bottom males entirely then I should be thinking about DT anyway.

If Worm doesn't want to survive intermission I am not strongly opposed to him suicide bombing a scum lady although Alisae will probably say I'm scum for mentioning it--but I'm just being real here, Dance 2 will probably be hectic AF and my impression right now is that he doesn't want to replace out but can't keep up with the game while still giving informed reads.

@Worm is that what's going on with that last post?

NO

DR WORM knows it"s NOT BEST FOR TOWN if WORM is INNOCENT CHILI!! So WORM DIES before INTERMISSONS..

Ouch.

Sad that such a towny thought has to come from someone very likely to die.

It's an unbelievably town motivated thought.

Vedith and Ankamius I explained in 2082.

Firebringer I believe I sorted as town when reading through the early game. Probably in part for his frustration with Nancy, although I'm certain there were other reasons. I have it written down that his 310 was towny, don't remember what it was.

Dannflor is admittedly a weak townread, but I believe it came from 2552.

I scumread Taly when reading through the early game and honestly don't remember why I sorted him away as town, although I don't doubt myself at the moment.

TheBrie for reasons.

Nancy I just explained.

I believe that's all of them.

I'm kinda thinking I want to pair with Thomas. Everyone else is too towny.

I would rather you paired with Urist. There's no need to be fatalistic with your lynch.

@Kraey, These are a lot better moment posts than 2603.

I am becoming increasingly convinced that we should not lynch Brie today, if only because I think moment leaving before Gamma, fucks town.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Brie, if we flip Gamma and she flips green, what is the path from there in your view? Would Moment at that point be your top FoS?

Yes. Partly because I've not got the strongest townread there, and I don't want to think about the double-deep wolf theory.
But Gamma has been pushing there, and I'd like to think that if Gamma did turn out to be town, she's gotten something right.

I don't think Moment has been reading much, so I don't know his opinions will be all that helpful.

I disagree. I think he has a really good grasp of the gamestate, despite that. Like I’ve already said, if time weren’t an issue, I’d insist on it.

How about you Brie? Who do you think is Gamma’s likely partner? Why don’t you have an opinion on that?

It is surprisingly good grasp. But whatever you get will be naturally limited. He'd not given me any read on Gamma and what he said didn't even have a lean.

My only theory is that it could be someone trying to slow the Gamma lynch down, but even that only makes sense as a general game slowing tactic, and it doesn't feel like it's coming from there.
I'm not fully convinced by my own argument that Moment and Gamma can't be scum together. That was mostly based on the idea that Gamma wouldn't push the remaining scum buddy when she's already under suspicion herself, but that's faulty. If she firmly town read Moment and I, got lynched and flipped scum, you'd want us gone next.
So currently I think Moment and I should leave soon after a Gamma flip. If we're both town it saves you time you could be sorting each other. And I've said as much to Moment.

And moment, does she concur with this?

Are there reasons, other than mechanical/wagonomics/POE that you think moment might be scum here?

Because so far as Urist has said, no one has made a case for scum!moment, other than inactivity?

[Nancy Drew 39]

It’s definitely better than the one you referenced, by a longshot. I was right about him in SC 2, wasn’t I, so where is this even coming from?

If Gamma is getting lynched before M-TB, then I want to be damn sure I'm not the game-losing pocket LOL

Like, if Pvt is going today, I'd like to feel pretty damn sure that his solve isn't correct. So far I'm pretty sure he's wrong about Taly, but to be honest this is the first time I've really started to dig into {her} meta on my own. You seem pretty convinced so there shouldn't be too much issue in shoring up my read there.

It sounds like you're 90%+ on Dann town? Have you meta'd him at all or are you primarily going off tone/PT interactions?

Unfortunately, I have reasons that I can’t elaborate on, both for my Dann townread and my Brie paranoia. I will meta him, to see if that changes but I have really strong reasons to townread Dann here. Like, I’m more confident on Taly but yes that and play, mechanically - Urist IC, Allo being wrong on every scumread so far, RC read and I really can’t see the sincerity and conviction in his posts, as easily fakable. Do you have some scumgames of his, that contradict that? I don’t want to be wrong here but so far, I don’t think I’m seeing Dann!scum here.

In our PT, Dann does a lot of second guessing of himself, which seems more likely to come from town. Wouldn’t you agree?

[Nancy Drew 39]

yeah Open 724 was my Perfect Scum Victory game so I'd say I performed my best there

I deepwolf'd and traumatized

the worst

lol

Can you link that? After being twice fooled by scum!duck, I really want to read this.

<3 @tw

[Nancy Drew 39]

Like the 26? posts of Labyrinth are the main basis of your understanding of Scum Taly, right Nancy?

yeah, people like to refer to Labyrinth for me as scum

but i was a traitor who rep-ed out later

so i had no pt and i flaked. i dont think its 100% the best game to look at me for, but i was pretty mid-range performance there and was the last scum slot to be lynched i think?

No that would be random. Tw gladiated Wisdom/you before LYLO.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Yeah you're right, 3317 certainly tastes pretty townie.

So the continued solve is Gamma+TB? Like TB's continued paranoia about Moment is pretty impressive if she's scum with Gamma, ngl.

That’s why I keep saying that she’s been townier than Gamma. It almost makes me a bit paranoid that Gamma isn’t playing similarly to Ok 2 here. She was full on survivalist in that game but she also played differently as scum in CoH as well, so I’m probably overthinking this.

[Nancy Drew 39]

DT could have absolutely been protecting Gamma but I don’t recall anyone proposing Gamma be the first lynch

Remember how Gamma entered the day saying "wow it's weird how Pvt got ICed considering people were saying I was the first lynch huh"

hold on I'll get the quote in a sec

Interesting given I was stated to be first lynch. Is there anything beyond WiFoM that would explain that selection?

Yeah, I see your point but does anyone think that Gamma was in jeopardy of being lynched over DT, had he miraculously been able to turn things around?

[Nancy Drew 39]

i shot that

TW

N1 and he was the jailkeeper - he townread me

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=76098

in SUPP, he was scum who shot me N1 - i survived to N2 because i had a passive delay utility - i townread him hard tho X_X

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=76441

in Echo Bay GRITS, he was an SK and i was one of the mafia groups

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=76118

in another game i forgot was when i kind of flaked D:

(but i also replaced in lol)

....

TW

was an SK and i was a heavily scumread townslot

viewtopic.php?f=55&t=76637

now you guys understand

how

TW

and I can very - very easily deathtunnel the other in a game.

In post 2756, Taly wrote:
the worst, baby, I shot you N1. I love you, sorry. <3

you'd better feel bad Taly ~tw

[Nancy Drew 39]

Unfortunately, I have reasons that I can’t elaborate on, both for my Dann townread and my Brie paranoia. I will meta him, to see if that changes but I have really strong reasons to townread Dann here. Like, I’m more confident on Taly but yes that and play, mechanically - Urist IC, Allo being wrong on every scumread so far, RC read and I really can’t see the sincerity and conviction in his posts, as easily fakable. Do you have some scumgames of his, that contradict that? I don’t want to be wrong here but so far, I don’t think I’m seeing Dann!scum here.

I would encourage you to meta me if you have the time. My only completed scum game is from 2012 unfortunately, but looking at some of my recent town games might help strengthen your read. I only say this because on the off chance the game doesn't end with Gamma/Brie gone, I want everyone to have the strongest possible reads they can get. I'll likely be doing the same for you once I get time.

Yes, I think that’s wise and yes, I have been pressed for time but I will try to meta you, soon as I have some time.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I think we're overthinking.

Perhaps we should pause if

Gamma

flips town, but I sincerely, seriously, doubt a deepwolf is amongst us 4. My mind will literally break if that happens.

And so

TB

- by gameplay, associative, and PoE is scum.

I know, it seems really difficult to fathom.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Town [Taly, Gamma, Vedith, Krazy, Ankamius]
Lean Town [Pink Ball, Alisae, Firebringer, RC]
Mixed [Nancy]
Null [TheBrie, Doubting Thomas, Dr Worm, Moment]
Leaning Scum [PvT]
Scum [Allomancer]

Alright let's play "can we meta Dann while only discussing towngames"

Uhhh... Dann, can you explain why you did not color-code your reads list in this game but you did in viewtopic.php?p=10691036#p10691036

and

viewtopic.php?p=10618196#p10618196

I feel like that's actually kinda a garbage argument but it's the only thing that catches my eye in the t-8 minutes before I hammer Gamma.

And it's not like you wouldn't color code a reads list as scum because I 'feel strongly' you would LOL, guess it's just a question of when you really started 'solving' in this game I guess vs. in a more normal game

Thanks, saves me time. *Bookmarking this, for later.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I highly doubt anyone who scumread

Urist

at any point Pre-Dance would've been OK to IC him.

Taly dude, have you forgotten that scum IC’d Urist?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Since Gamma just got here I guess I won't cut her off mid-post.

But given I did give a 4 hour warning on ITH... and I feel most of my arguments have been refuted more or less...

If Gamma agrees that if she flips green

, we continue on to M-TB, then I think we just go for it?

What? Why?

How does this make sense to you?

Why would town!Gamma’s opinions affect anything?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Taly

You're pretty strong on Taly > Dancefloor at this point?

It's just so weird considering she distinctly had Taly as lock town and Dancy as weak town reads coming into the dance.

Taly

You're pretty strong on Taly > Dancefloor at this point?

Because I've been the most vocal at refuting Gamma's posts.

Both Taly and Dann have.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I highly doubt anyone who scumread

Urist

at any point Pre-Dance would've been OK to IC him.

Taly dude, have you forgotten that scum IC’d Urist?

No I'm meaning, anyone who scumread

Urist

Pre-Dance likely isn't scum at all XD Because I find it hard to think that scum would push against

Urist

if they planned to IC him, especially later in Pre-Dance.

Okay, that makes way more sense. Thanks for clarifying.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Thanks
Btw I wrote this out in my PT with Pvt expecting to have some work to do on it and not wanting to post too much in the main thread with my ramblings but I think this is a good base so my reads rn are

Locktown
Pvt

Taly

Townreads
Krazy
Vedith

Weaker townreads
Nancy
Dann

Shades of null
Pink Ball
Something_Smart
Firebringer

Suspicious person
Moment

My top scumreads
Dr. Worm
DoubtingThomas
TheBrie

FYI each set IS ordered by towniest at the top except weaker townreads, which is ordered by recency because recency affects my confidence there.

I mean I'm almost at null here

How is Taly now one of your strongest scumreads?

This ISO reads like a hodgepodge of reads without really much thought put into it.
But the Taly 180, stands out to me more than anything.

[Nancy Drew 39]

PvtUrist, who was

Town

Gentleman

, has

left

in

Second Dance

.

Gamma Emerald, who was

Mafia

Lady

, has

left

in

Second Dance

.

Great job guys, only one more to go. \o/

[Nancy Drew 39]

MOMENTSBREAD does NOT MAKE TO ENDGAME so we KILL NOW!!

This I doubt. Looking at the most recent votecount, I can see that we've got two lynches left before LyLo, three left at most before the game is over.

VoteCount 2.7

Dr Worm - Pink Ball [0] -
Krazy - Taly [0] -
Dannflor - Nancy Drew 39 [0] -
Moment - TheBrie [0] -
PvtUrist - Gamma Emerald [0] -

Not Voting [10]

- Dr Worm, Pink Ball, Krazy, Taly, Dannflor, Nancy Drew 39, Moment, TheBrie, PvtUrist, Gamma Emerald

With 10 alive it takes 6 votes to lynch

.

Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2019-02-24 01:00:00)

My pool for scum from beforehand I have no reason to doubt given the information I know so far. Unfortunately, it seems like Vedith and Firebringer left the dance. That leaves the pairing with my highest confidence of both being town as Dannflor / Nancy Drew, and even there I have some doubts. Similarly unfortunate, every other pairing has one person I consider town and one other I consider as likely needing to die. Correspondingly, that's Worm, Taly and Urist as compared to PB, Krazy and Gamma.


That being said, I have yet to review anything of what went on during this day, which may change my preferences when it comes to order. Already I can see that DT and PB were voting together on DT/SS's counterwagon, which is something to look into.

Either way, I am interested to hear who you believe your endgame pairings should be if not me and Brie.

She made this post at 1:10 am yesterday. While I’m aware of the deadline approaching, we hit the second scum, would it hurt to let moment weigh in first? Like if Gamma had flipped green, I’d totally get it but why can’t we wait a few hours?

[Nancy Drew 39]

I don't really think there's anything Moment can say that would change The Bread from being my highest priority elimination at this point.

We must not question the ways of Dr Worm. He may not have been a real doctor, but he was a truly magnificent worm.

But it is your vote. Use it when you are ready.

But what about the ways of RC? Or or you still convinced that his Brie read is unreliable?

[Nancy Drew 39]

hammer at will

nancel <3

I didn’t expect this day to go this fast. Do you think that there’s no value in further discussion first?

[Nancy Drew 39]

RC

had original reason to scumread

Brie

and he kept waffling. I don't think scum would've been content with keeping a read like that on them - and thus could've contributed to NKing his pair.

Also

DT+Gamma+Brie

makes overall game-narrative and ISO group sense than any other team imo

Brie

saying

Krazy/Me

more likely contain scum wasn't a point to solve. Her buddies are gone, and she's filling the thread with conclusions that are no longer viable because we're correct.

Krazy

was the first to strongly push

DT

.
I was the first to strongly push

Gamma

.

Nancy/Dann

have so many obvtown posts that display their pro-town mentalities in this game that I think the 4 of us are locktown.

Moment

being less-active town makes holistic sense with reads.

So, you think there’s no point in waiting?

I know the clock is ticking and I don’t want to drag things out but what if we’re wrong?

[Nancy Drew 39]

hammer at will

nancel <3

I didn’t expect this day to go this fast. Do you think that there’s no value in further discussion first?

No. I truly believe this game is solved.

And in the near-impossible event that the final scum is within the 4 of us.

Dann/Nancy/Krazy/Taly

Making Lylo

>>>

TheBrie/Moment/??/??

Making Lylo

I'd rather have more days for the 4 of us to filter through our towncases than

"strategically lynch on the HYPOTHETICAL possibility scum is within townbloc"

You’re probably right. I’ve just been so sure so many times and been wrong.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I don't think we are wrong, and I think second-guessing ourselves now will do more harm even if we are wrong.

What do you want to wait for

Nancy

?

Well the main reason I voted Gamma was to let moment weigh in on the flip but if you think there’s no point?

[Nancy Drew 39]

If we're wrong, we go into 4-way, and we would then begin discussions about how to formulate an innocent child probably.

Moment's commentary would be useful insofar as helping us decide the resolution of 4-way, if that were to occur

, but there are no circumstances in which his testimony would change my preferred lynch at this point.

But you’re convinced that the game ends with Brie/moment flip?

If it would be useful, then shouldn’t we wait, since he can’t offer that commentry once we lynch him?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Well, we don't know when

Moment

will post, and to our understanding,

Brie+Moment

haven't really engaged much with each other.

So I don't think it's helpful to gauge the validity of our reads around their thinking.

5308 is my most notable post discussing

Brie

associative. If anything makes you a bit unsure about

Brie's

alignment then say it. ^_^

I think both you and Dann have really made compelling arguments for Brie scum and like I’ve said, she would make the most sense as the teammate that DT fell on his sword for, since I think we can all agree that Gamma was in no danger of leaving over DT.

I am also a bit paranoid about Brie but I dunno my gut is making me question that. \_0_/