large normal 218: tweets (bong)

[Vedith]

Hey, I hear you. Who am I to judge?

[Nero Cain]

Vedith (3): BuJaber, Nero Cain, Amor
Eyes without a face (2): stan1ey, Enigma
Jibril (2): Emperor flippyNips, RCEnigma
Creature (2): Lycanfire, Eyes without a face
rosterfoster (1): Vedith
Amor (1): profii
Emperor flippyNips (1): Jibril
Sashaddin (1): joges
joges (1): 0verki11
stan1ey (1): rosterfoster

not voting (2): Sashaddin, Creature

kinda sad with 2.5 days to go.

[Vedith]

Something we can agree on.
People I won't vote.

Eyes, Jibril, Nero, Lycan.

I can compromise else where as no lynch is tragic.

[Jibril]

Lynch Emperor

[Vedith]

VOTE: Emperor flippyNips

[Nero Cain]

People I won't vote.

Eyes, Jibril, Nero, Lycan.

never said you won't vote yourself!

[Vedith]

never said you won't vote yourself!

Oh you!
Personally I think I'm a terrible lynch. Even over a no lynch. Not worth explaining as it would be doubted.

[Nero Cain]

I think you are a p solid and safe lynch. You are a claimed VT so if you do end up being a ML then we aren't losing anything. Your singular scum"hunting" doesn't seem very protown to me.

[Jibril]

Mr Cain, sir. The recigicde quest beckons.

[Vedith]

You are a claimed VT

You realise the post I responded to was you asking for a fake claim?

[BuJaber]

Something we can agree on.
People I won't vote.

Eyes, Jibril, Nero, Lycan.

I can compromise else where as no lynch is tragic.

I can compromise on profii if his wagon gets bigger than yours. Bus him.

[BuJaber]

Creature needs to post

You need to town.

Your post about Persivul isn't enough anymore.

All in due time. Just keep watching.

[Vedith]

Your singular scum"hunting" doesn't seem very protown to me.

You are trying to lynch me for poor reasons. Even if it was a real scum read you're singular scum"hunting".
At least my reason on Rooster is valid.

[Lycanfire]

If you read that, do you think Emporer is the Werebeast this time? Do you think anything of the others who were there?

Yup I compiled notes on everyone

Emp is a meatworld colleague of Boon who described his scum play as non-existant, "he doesn't know what to say as scum". Emp is someone that enjoys memes, sarcasm, and gutreads. I read him as someone without much confidence because despite being able to develop reads he can't put words to, he hesitates and is slow to share the fleshy part of his reads. Contradictory to some his behavior he doesn't seem to be very opinionated.

Through vca he's potential scum but I'm leaning hard on Boon's testimony. While he isn't mimicking his previous town play I'm sure this will either remain a trend or he will out himself if he is scum. If he's town, he can only become more town.

Joges has a blunt playstyle and says what's on his mind. The timing in relation to posts is something he's shown ability to get reads from. You'll find him not to be outwardly belligerant, but rather than share reads you can get a sense of how he reads people based on how he talks to them. When he feels a conversation isn't useful anymore, he prompts whoever he is talking to to move on.

I think he's playing much the same. See the deadpan 636. My impression is that joges is skeptical of 0verki11 but isn't suspecting him. When Joges

does

give reads it's in reply to Nero's vanity comment, it's kind of in passing, as if he didn't want to talk about it. I get the impression that he is somebody that doesn't want to talk about things that don't further the game state.

One thing I do think is strange is how he declared v/la, came back and asked for a recap. When he left I thought he was doing good things™ with his 166, but since then hasn't cared much about RCEnigma's opinions. If I was v/la I'd grab somebody to give me a the lowdown, and RC could have been that body.

I read you as a definite alt account that engages in novel behavior ("master", "werebeast", sheeping... you're playing up some roleplay persona). From the timing of rb's replace in NM 2053, I'd say there's a chance you are a personality rb made to "play" mafia without getting banned. It's possible that you're just a player that is shit at scumplay and use this persona to reduce any floor and ceiling you have between factions. I know of a player like that, but I don't think you're them because (1) they already have an account where they do exactly that (2) they're not lame enough to be you.

The difference in your play in that game and this one if that you're more happy to be independent and express reads.

[Lycanfire]

Also lycan, interested if you have any conclusions from eye's only town game (since you read stanley's)?

Eyes claimed they weren't an alt ("first game on MS") in Open 745 but I'm curious about how much mafia experience they really have. They didn't seem to understand the concept of RVS at the time. In this game, they claimed experience which is either off-site or gained on another account since then re: the "hammer / large game" debacle.

Both scum got wagoned heading out of RVS and at this point Eyes spent a lot of energy questioning peoples motives instead of developing reads. I feel was a major factor to why they ended up getting roped. One of the scums went out of their way to derail the thread which gave people mixed feelings, but for whatever reason they felt like they made more sense than Eyes, who was guilty of being there and not advancing the game state... Which Eyes explained as being a gambit to bait scum ("nothing I can do d1"). It worked, but the whole idea of purposely being bashful about contributing got them rightfully strung up.

There was some differences when I compared my 'eyes profile' with Open 745. My perception of eyes so far has been one of somebody that is stubborn and opinionated even if they are mistaken. They're a lot more 'in' this game. I have no reason to think they weren't gambiting like they said which does bridge the gap in confidence.

I noted a few things similar in their thought processes

(1) Eyes places an importance on evidence rather than how they feel on matters
"But your response makes me feel better, because you are not arguing your alignment, but arguing the evidence. It's like you're saying "It's not what you know. It's what you can prove." which works in a court of law, but not in an online game." vs "Vedith is town, buys. Move on. Scum don't wait for a wagon to build on them to quit the leading wagon. In fact they do the opposite. They join their counterwagons."
This statements seen like they congrue in how they form reads (or at least,

good reads

). Eragon misrepped them in the last game about this, but I feel like this is what they were getting at. They still deserved to get lynched but their gambit kinda worked with how obvscum Eragon became.

(2) Eyes seems to miss the point on a topic at hand very easily. See Eyes on scum replace outs vs Eyes on Vedith, his wagon and the wagons thereafter. This is more of a personality quirk rather than AI, but seeing

what

skips a beat could be important if they draw a scum PM (or, if they suddenly decide to get more careful after having read this post).

This game started about a full month after they got roped in Open 745, and most new players probably wouldn't come back after an experience like that. I don't find it strange that somebody would change up their playstyle in a short time and I don't think Open 745 was a great representation of their townplay to begin with. Eyes so much as said that they had a narrow view of gathering reads in that game which is no longer applied to this game. They're playing differently but that doesn't make it a red PM.

From what I've seen so far I think they're probtown.

[Emperor flippyNips]

Yup no scum game at all. I don’t agree with much of the other stuff I haven’t been reading into this game much so I don’t have many reads besides my gut one on jibril

[Lycanfire]

I still dislike Bujaber. These are my two games with him. He was scum in one and town in one. I forget wich game but in one of them he did the same "we need to lynch X to tell us about Y" so he's likely the same alignment as he was in whichever game he did that in.

He did it in his town game: "If correct that makes it very plausible that a) dunk is town and b) koki is scum."
"-pedit nero I want to see your flip to decide on a few things including whether you v gamma is TvS or TvT. Don't think it's SvS given how many S flipped already."
He did it in his scum game: "The way profii talked about the push on clem and gamma makes it sound like he's saying 'other scum than me' [...]
As for the push on Gamma that really depends on Gamma's flip. I haven't liked his contribution to this game much but the emotional posting recently is really working on me." (profii was town, gamma was scum. this was projecting what he was doing in order to chain a lynch.)
I don't know how indicative this is as his scumgame because it seems like the mafia thought the game was multiball (and they did that scum thing where they say hurr multiball?? which is really funny when it's not)

Full disclosure: I did ISO dives only on those games (theme park is the toilet queue).

It's my impression that BuJaber "clears" people more often as town than as scum. In the scumgame, most of his play was defending Wisdom and Gamma, calling DFB scum and taking the fall for Boon. It's a lot easier to clear people as town as scum, but I don't think he had a single town "clear" outside of pinturicchio. He's tunneling on Jibril like he did DFB, so if he's scum maybe his partners just haven't been wagoned. Rather than run with that assumption I'd prefer to divine reads from "doing" than anti-"doing". I'm more interested in what he is doing. BuJaber is calling this person scum, that person scum, he's willing to lynch this person, that person must answer my questions etc.

This question asking behavior is present in both those sample games you linked, but with few exception you'll find him asking a question but ending his post with a statement as scum. In the Civ game, every other post up until his 55th post ended in a question. When he's scum it's less about asking and more about telling. 307 was a lot like that, ending only in a question to seek you out personally. The rhetorical questions not being aimed at Jibril are a vehicle to serve a point.

What I gathered from his "TMI" tell (thanks for explaining it to me, btw, I thought it was a game they were referencing) wasn't much. Whatever he was assuming of joges' alignment was contingent on Jibril's. I thought I was catching him latching onto what I said (you/vedith/rc having weird interactions) and that he was representing it as something like "nero says joges isn't town, which makes my read on joges alignment not dependent on jibril's alignment, because I agree with nero". All I got out of it was that english is probably his second language and he just worded it funny.

VCA is an interesting story. He's hard on Jibril, dodged my question on Creature and came back around recently for Vedith. Nothing precludes him from being aligned with the latter two. What he would be doing is a dangerous game, but also anti-"doing". What I get out of that is that he's not scum with Jibril. He has been beating that drum pretty consistently. I'm not sure he calls attention to that with Vedith being the counter, because Vedith has voted there once before.

The wagon was never resolved and what I mean by that most of the the voters

still want her

. RCEnigma is so much as saying that Jibril is still scum. Creature made a post saying the same thing. Emp is checking in just to remind of us what he thinks of Jibril. Vedith has rescinded his read for some reason.

You know what I did when Creature wasn't resolved? I left my vote on him. Sus.

[Lycanfire]

re. RCEnigma Sashaddin games. I modded his inaugural game. He was a pretty competent wolf but likes to talk himself down as scum. I don't view this as some compulsive need to depreciate himself. There were clear reasons behind his behavior and it was role related. I'd like to see him express more confidence in his reads. Meta may be useful for reading him but I think having him contribute the game is equally as good.

[Sashaddin]

I'll wait until tomorrow evening when I have more time and will compare the isos of the 2-3 most wagoned players, then I'll vote.

VOTE: Jibril

[Lycanfire]

Why are you voting someone if you "agree my vote shouldn't be on" them? Why not unvote and vote Vedith?

Beyond rosters' feelings on the Jibril wagon, why Vedith is "trolling" (Nero and I kind of egged him on and I agree Vedith went too far when he managed to derail the thread with it), Enigma wanting him because of Eyes, joining in would really only distract from why I think he's scummy. I'm there in spirit!

Okay Profii is vedith's partner

If anything wouldn't you think Amor is his partner? Putting a yuck vote on a wagon is an OG tactic to derail it.

I don't think profii is hurting for a reason to exit the wagon because if he were scum with Vedith here, he couldn't be oblivious of wagonomics from earlier in the day. He went out of his way to put attention on it and I had been feeling the same way ever since the Jibril wagon took off with nobody all that interested in what I had to say.

kinda sad with 2.5 days to go.

Nvm I'm here now VOTE: Vedith

Something we can agree on.
People I won't vote.

Eyes, Jibril, Nero, Lycan.

I can compromise else where as no lynch is tragic.

I agree but why not Jibril? I have a feeling that we don't have the same answer.

[Lycanfire]

then was the vote on sasha which I didn't like. Sheeped for no reason, no reason given and it's sasha. He didn't do anything scummy and people were voting him because of his unorthodox style imo and it was an easy place for vedith to try and push because other people might wrongfully scum read him.

That's where I take issue with you. You scumread Vedith for opportunism (and called it that) while 100% agreed that Creature was town. You're capable of using VCA to get a read. The Vedith-scum Creature-town with your own admission is like getting caught on traffic spikes in transit. It doesn't make sense.

if he flipped scum then we should lynch eyes. Like if eyes is scum that could be a gambit where he thinks we'll assume he was getting us to lynch a town with him if he gets lynched but also that genuinely could be what he was doing.

Ive given my reasons many times read my iso idk why i keep getting questioned on this

Are you able to see Vedith or Eyes as scum independently from one another?

[Enigma]

Choo choo
VOTE: vedith

[BuJaber]

This question asking behavior is present in both those sample games you linked, but with few exception you'll find him asking a question but ending his post with a statement as scum. In the Civ game, every other post up until his 55th post ended in a question. When he's scum it's less about asking and more about telling. 307 was a lot like that, ending only in a question to seek you out personally. The rhetorical questions not being aimed at Jibril are a vehicle to serve a point.

I also tried to question Jibril directly but I didn't get ang response.

[BuJaber]

If anything wouldn't you think Amor is his partner? Putting a yuck vote on a wagon is an OG tactic to derail it.

I don't think profii is hurting for a reason to exit the wagon because if he were scum with Vedith here, he couldn't be oblivious of wagonomics from earlier in the day. He went out of his way to put attention on it and I had been feeling the same way ever since the Jibril wagon took off with nobody all that interested in what I had to say.

Derails it sure but at the cost of getting attention to himself.
With Vedith's playstyle I'm not sure I'd want to sacrifice myself for him if we were partners. The way he plays will always land him some suspicion even when he is townread.

What profii did is present a case that looks very good on the surface but is circumstantial. It reads intent in Amor. Ie if Amor isn't motivated by what profii said he's motivated by the scumminess goes away. But what profii can accomplish with this is get a new wagon going while also looking like he's doing something.

[rosterfoster]

Well ok seems like Stanley wont happen. Tbh the Stanley stuff probably means that Vedith is more likely scum, partners with Stanley. I'm not sure what I was thinking with Vedith town exactly.

VOTE: Vedith