Merchant's Daughter [Endgame]

[Nancy Drew 39]

I would be impressed with someone's scumplay if the game didn't end with a Moment-Brie flip.

I hope it doesn’t come to that. I’m already nervous enough.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Congrats on 1000 posts this game btw! All on your own too

Almost twice your number. Not sure if this is something to be proud of.

[Nancy Drew 39]

We don't know if it'll come to that if we don't do something to find out. XD

We're all in the same boat

Nancy <3

Okay, I guess there’s nothing to be gained by waiting. I just wish my gut wasn’t nagging at me.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I would be impressed with someone's scumplay if the game didn't end with a Moment-Brie flip.

On the flip side, I’ll be impressed with everyone’s townplay if the game does end

It just seems too easy but Taly’s right and since all of you are in agreement.

VOTE: Brie

I just hope I don’t regret this.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Moment, who was

Town

Gentleman

, has

left

in

Second Dance

.

TheBrie, who was

Town

Lady

, has

left

in

Second Dance

.

I need to always trust my gut. :/


But I just couldn’t explain it because it makes no sense for Brie not to be scum.

[Nancy Drew 39]

We shouldn’t rush this. I hammered because my gut was telling me Brie was town and I seriously considered stopping or at least delaying the lynch but mechanicially, everything was pointing to Brie scum and my anxiety levels, the more I tried to resolve it in my mind, just kept getting worse and worse and I just didn’t have the confidence, that I would ever figure it out.

This game makes no sense.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Well, Nancy, who is your strongest townread at this point?

Taly.

[Nancy Drew 39]

OK, would you like Taly IC'd? This would be the most informative for me, since that effectively solves the game from my point of view.

@Nancy, didn't pedit for Dann sorry

I just hammered on two town, so I don’t want to lose us the game.

I think Dann not ICing me was townie because he immediately ICing me, would be scummy.

There is no reason to rush this and I don’t think there should be any IC.

Taly is still my strongest townread, yes.

But we have sometime. I hammered m-tb, to give us that time.

[Nancy Drew 39]

P.edit. I was thinking either the game would end with the hammer but I knew that prolonging the inevitable, was pointless because I was never going to be able to resolve the dichotomy between what my gut was saying and how it made absolutely no sense for Brie not to be DT’s partner.

I’m stll in somewhat of a shock because I still don’t understand how this game not ending makes any sense.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I think prematurely ICing anyone, could lose us the game. Once we have all reassessed the game, done metachecks etc. God, knows I need to since I still don’t understand where I went wrong.

I honestly wasn’t expecting that lynch to be so quick and if even one other person had either backed me on moment weighing in, or further discussion, I absolutely would have waited but you were all locked in and probably moment wasn’t going to add anything more to what he’s already said anyway, and it was obvious that no more discussion was happening in the game pre-flip.

And I knew I was never going to come to a decision and with the clock ticking, I just couldn’t see the wisdom of delaying my vote and risk time running out, if I was wrong but more than that, I thought the game would just end.

[Nancy Drew 39]

So I don't want to make it seem like I have trust tells. I can present the games and simply argue, this game is outside my scum range. That demeans my scum-range, and you might not believe it. Theoretically, I'm not the one that should be making this argument. But that's why I include coalition, which is the game people would usually point to and say, "but actually maybe this is kinda like how you play as scum." I am showcasing my strongest scum games and saying--look at them, please. If you look at my average scum games, my general preference is to lurk. Actually there's another schadd game I should even bring up here.

Another example of my scum play on my main: viewtopic.php?t=77661&f=53&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

This is not my scum play. I know I am town, and if you are doing an argument from meta, then I believe after evaluating my play in other games, you should probably conclude I am town.

Now, we are dealing with a situation where someone is playing a very strong scum game. My inclination at this point is to think that player is Dann. But I don't know that, which is why I would prefer to get an IC so that my solving process is focused on two players. This is how me and Chibi did it in Witches Ball, it worked there. If I seem kind of less tilted here than the rest of you, it's probably because I was in the 4-way mylo the last time this setup was run so "sudden twist, the person in the mountainous I thought was scum flipped town" doesn't phase me that badly I guess.

At this point, I look at the setup and I say, okay, the first thing I do is decide who I would be most okay with losing the game to, and then I IC that person. I wouldn't mind losing to Nancy, which is why I volunteered her to be the IC. Nancy has argued convincingly that she would have caught Taly by now, so I am not strongly opposed to Taly being IC'd. Frankly, I could be wrong on any of the three of you, and I just accept that. If I lose this game to someone who has dramatically expanded their scum range, then GG. Dann is the one who has been most suspected by other players, and who I myself have second guessed the most posts of, but every player has at some point been case or discussed as possible scum at this point. If it's Nancy, then Firebringer gets to pat himself on the back I guess. If it's Taly, Pvt is laughing in the grave. If it's Dann, then PB probably has some mixed feelings.

And if it’s you, well then moment is taking a victory lap in dead chat.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Yes, ICing someone can certainly lose us the game. But we would be losing the game quickly, based on who we believe is already town and who would win anyway, rather than losing the game slowly, in a manner that would be more tilting. At this point, I know I'm never going to be totally sure on which is the correct answer, because scum has played too well. So I would prefer to save myself 1/3rd of the effort, frankly.

That last vote really took a toll on me and if it weren’t for an approximately 3 day deadline, I wouldn’t have hammered, because I frequently get fresh new insights once I sleep on it. I think this setup is inherently scumsided because the coin mechanic, made no lynching the safest choice, which pushed us immediately into 2nd dance.

I think next go round, FG should abandon the whole coin thing because it’s just makes it too much of a pressure cooker.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Yes, I also hate the coins, although it's probably supposed to be related to the post-intermission IC pairing. Beyond that, our early game was damaged by Firebringer making it impossible to make the high coin male a consensus townread, which dramatically increased the incentive to simply skip first dance. Some of the issues here were caused by town play, some of the issues were caused by setup. It's a fast paced setup no matter what though.

At least there weren’t 5 replace outs, back to back.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Thought about it and I'm still ready to IC Nancy.

It's between Taly and Dan and it might actually maybe be Taly?

There's a few different factors here for me. The main thing is that I feel like Gamma came into post-intermission with high motivation, and I just have a really hard time imagining Gamma feeling good about this game if the scum team was exactly Gamma-Nancy-DT, since Nancy/DT have like an ongoing personality conflict. Additionally, I kinda felt like both Nancy and Gamma were trying to become partnered with me, and I find it really hard to see that coming from S/S.

Beyond that I just would be more shocked and impressed with Nancy scum.

There are some things to think about here:
-Did Nancy keep her cool too well for DT joking about her?
-Did Nancy keep her cool too well for Gamma saying she has an "authority complex" as town?
-Was Nancy threatening to replace out possibly related to being partnered with DT?

The other issue I'm seeing going back through isos is that Taly's interactions with both DT and Gamma seem kinda blah.

There's like one post in particular from Gamma that almost makes me townread Dann on its own.[youtube][/youtube]

Bottom line here is that I'm pretty sure Nancy never flips scum here. If the answer to the three questions above are all "no" then we should do a hammer test because if Nancy is the scum I think we just lose. I feel like Nancy mostly did "normal Nancy" reactions to those phenomena.

Kinda where I'm at right now.

That being said I'm curious about Dann's reluctance to IC Nancy and Nancy's lack of enthusiasm for being IC'd. Dann, if there's something in your PT that bothers you, you should probably say so.

I’m not reluctant to be IC, I just don’t think anyone is an IC. If you want me as your top town, then I’m good with that.

Spoiler:

[Nancy Drew 39]

Seriously @Krazy, have you possibly considered that not everyone is down with an IC theory?

Dann isn’t reluctant to IC me, he’s just cautious and fhpov, don’t you think that looks really townie?

Like, have you forgotten, you’re voting in pairs?

If Dann immediately jumped on board with, sure I’ll IC Nancy, it would have pinged my scumdar off the charts for obvious reasons and I would like to think he’d have the exact same reaction to my doing that as well.

Similarly, I’d also be extremely suspicious of either you or Taly ICing each other. Do you see where I’m going with this?

Of course I know I’m town here, that isn’t even the point. If we were not playing in pairs, it would be entirely different but I want to solve this and you’re ignoring the pair component of this. I’m not looking to be IC’d here, I want to find out whivhever pair contains the deep wolf and lynch them. All I know for sure is it’s not me but I can’t obviously be locked on anyone else but what I can do, is look at how seriously they’re taking this game and the towniness of their motivation.

So, Dann not wanting to rush this, is pro-town in my eyes because why couldn’t scum!him just say, sure I’ll be more than happy to IC Nancy?

The fact that you find this even remotely concerning kind of worries me. I alsmost wonder if this whole IC gambit is a trap for either me or Dann?

Like, is it entirely out of your scumrange to set either of us up?

Even now you say on one hand you suspect Taly and on the other, you find it concerning that neither Dann or me is “enthusiastic” as you call it to IC me. Why aren’t you trying harder to sort me, like Dann is?

I am trying to find the deep wolf from amongst you, Dann and Taly, right?

You’re expecting me to assume your town with a pro-town motivation for doing this but I don’t know that, do I?


Can you understand why I’m feeling kind of paranoid about this?

[Nancy Drew 39]

VOTE: Krazy

[Nancy Drew 39]

Before I congratulate the scum team, I have one question for Nancy.

to replace out of a game for town cred is not something I believe Nancy would ever do.

Nancy, is this true? Did you threaten to replace out for town cred? I want an explanation from you.

No, I wasn’t sure I wanted to play scum again because I was also scum in the aborted version too. I signed up again, thinking I’d roll town, which is why I played poorly initially. I was really conflicted. I wasn’t sure if I wanted to play or not and when Fire and everyone began tunneling me, I kind of freaked me out because I still hadn’t gotten over being railroaded and mislynched in MBoS, so no, it wasn’t calculated. I was also terrified of losing it on Fire and get tempbanned, specifically because of how painful MBoS was for me.

And when I had some time to sleep on it, I realized that had way overreacted and that I wasn’t the kind of player who just gives up like that. I’m not a quitter.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Before I congratulate the scum team, I have one question for Nancy.

to replace out of a game for town cred is not something I believe Nancy would ever do.

Nancy, is this true? Did you threaten to replace out for town cred? I want an explanation from you.

No, I wasn’t sure I wanted to play scum again because I was also scum in the aborted version too. I signed up again, thinking I’d roll town, which is why I played poorly initially. I was really conflicted. I wasn’t sure if I wanted to play or not and when Fire and everyone began tunneling me, I kind of freaked me out because I still hadn’t gotten over being railroaded and mislynched in MBoS, so no, it wasn’t calculated. I was also terrified of losing it on Fire and get tempbanned, specifically because of how painful MBoS was for me.

And when I had some time to sleep on it, I realized that had way overreacted and that I wasn’t the kind of player who just gives up like that. I’m not a quitter.

This is called a tactical replace out.

No it absolutely wasn’t. I was serious about leaving. i don’t know why you’re trying to twist this into something it isn’t :/

[Nancy Drew 39]

Before I congratulate the scum team, I have one question for Nancy.

to replace out of a game for town cred is not something I believe Nancy would ever do.

Nancy, is this true? Did you threaten to replace out for town cred? I want an explanation from you.

No, I wasn’t sure I wanted to play scum again because I was also scum in the aborted version too. I signed up again, thinking I’d roll town, which is why I played poorly initially. I was really conflicted. I wasn’t sure if I wanted to play or not and when Fire and everyone began tunneling me, I kind of freaked me out because I still hadn’t gotten over being railroaded and mislynched in MBoS, so no, it wasn’t calculated. I was also terrified of losing it on Fire and get tempbanned, specifically because of how painful MBoS was for me.

And when I had some time to sleep on it, I realized that had way overreacted and that I wasn’t the kind of player who just gives up like that. I’m not a quitter.

This is called a tactical replace out.

No it absolutely wasn’t. I was serious about leaving. i don’t know why you’re trying to twist this into something it isn’t :/

I didn’t want to risk getting tempbanned for losing it on anyone and I thought I was ruining the game for everyone at that point. I didn’t play poorly intentionally, I was really trying my best. You can’t hold it against me, that my heart wasn’t 100% in it at first.

You’re being horriby unfair to me and completely misconstruing everything I said.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I think it is really despicable of you to falsely accuse me. I didn’t even care about being lynched, it was the tunnelling that freaked me out, because that’s what happened in MBoS and I had a total meltdown in that game and that’s the game I should have replaced out in. I profusely apologize for not wanting to get banned. ffs!

[Nancy Drew 39]

I think it is really despicable of you to falsely accuse me. I didn’t even care about being lynched, it was the tunnelling that freaked me out, because that’s what happened in MBoS and I had a total meltdown in that game and that’s the game I should have replaced out in. I profusely apologize for not wanting to get banned. ffs!

@Fire

[Nancy Drew 39]

You are the victim now?

@pedit the worst. Shut the hell up.

No you, stop acting like such a sore loser over this.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Fire stop you're being a jackass. I've had a moment where I felt mistreated as scum (though this was on a more personal level it's still valid, also came after my flip). The feeling was very genuine and I was pretty sure about it. So its 100% feasible for Nancy to have felt genuinely targeted. What I'm seeing from her is she's saying she didn't want to have another mental breakdown. So you either need to understand that or shut the fuck up and never play with me or Nancy again.
PEdit: hold up is DT the worst?

Stop empathizing with a person who is behaving like a child.
I get your still a kid but you need grow up and realize just because someone might have genuine feelings doesn't excuse their actions.

If you don’t stop this, I will take action. I don’t have to put up with your abuse.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Fire stop you're being a jackass. I've had a moment where I felt mistreated as scum (though this was on a more personal level it's still valid, also came after my flip). The feeling was very genuine and I was pretty sure about it. So its 100% feasible for Nancy to have felt genuinely targeted. What I'm seeing from her is she's saying she didn't want to have another mental breakdown. So you either need to understand that or shut the fuck up and never play with me or Nancy again.
PEdit: hold up is DT the worst?

Stop empathizing with a person who is behaving like a child.
I get your still a kid but you need grow up and realize just because someone might have genuine feelings doesn't excuse their actions.

First off I'm 19, second don't talk down to me like that, third it makes a ton of sense that she'd want to avoid another ment all breakdown. That's the core of what I'm getting that and if you can't see that you're a psychopath and I dont want to associate with you. Sorry to use such charged words but it really describes how I feel about you rn.

<3 <3 <3 <3 <3

[Nancy Drew 39]

Stop empathizing with a person who is behaving like a child.

Yeah you need to stop giving Nancy shit. Your play this game was about 1000x worse in my book. You made us backpedal on the strategy for dance 1 by pairing without looking at your rolecard, and you goaded a T/T pair into leaving by completely flaking on your PT.

Like you can't give Nancy shit for emotional manipulation *when you manipulated Vedith into wasting his slot*.

So no, sorry, Nancy played incredibly well given she was in a role she didn't want, with a teammate she actively disliked.

And everything that I posted about that game was true. I almost didn’t want to play when I saw him on the playerlist but I’m cool with him now. I had no idea, he was going to throw that in my face but he did warn me in scumchat, he was going to do something brutal. I just had no idea what. But I couldn’t have done it without both DT and Gamma, so thanks you guys for taking the fall for me, so that I was set up to win. I couldn’t have done it alone.

[Nancy Drew 39]

People, please stay civilized and don't make me lock the thread.

Nancy, this is a very serious matter since your attempted replace out, whether intentionally or unintentionally, affected at least Dannflor's decision to read you as town in LyLo. (

and thus could have decided the game!

)

I (or anyone else) can't prove that your replace out was strategic or not, but your action

did

compromise your slot, since at least one player in the game decided to read you as town for that action.

I hope you understand what you have done, Nancy. Replace outs are

not

part of the game. Whether you meant to or not, the moment you made that post, the game was

compromised

, since even if I replaced your slot, other people's read on the slot will still be affected by your replace out.

I didn’t intend that I swear. I thought I was hurting the game and I was being toxic. I honestly didn’t know what to do. I’m telling you the truth. I didn’t want to get banned and I didn’t know what to do because of what happened in that other game. I didn’t try to compromise anything. I didn’t want to ruin the game for everyone.

[Nancy Drew 39]

People, please stay civilized and don't make me lock the thread.

Nancy, this is a very serious matter since your attempted replace out, whether intentionally or unintentionally, affected at least Dannflor's decision to read you as town in LyLo. (

and thus could have decided the game!

)

I (or anyone else) can't prove that your replace out was strategic or not, but your action

did

compromise your slot, since at least one player in the game decided to read you as town for that action.

I hope you understand what you have done, Nancy. Replace outs are

not

part of the game. Whether you meant to or not, the moment you made that post, the game was

compromised

, since even if I replaced your slot, other people's read on the slot will still be affected by your replace out.

I didn’t intend that I swear. I thought I was hurting the game and I was being toxic. I honestly didn’t know what to do. I’m telling you the truth. I didn’t want to get banned and I didn’t know what to do because of what happened in that other game. I didn’t try to compromise anything. I didn’t want to ruin the game for everyone.

What do you think I should have done? I wasn’t even thinking straight at the time and I’m truly sorry about that. I probably should have taken a break after that other game but I honestly thought I was over it. I was very wrong. It was bad judgment on my part not to take a break. I don’t know what else to tell you. MBoS temporarily wrecked me.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Nancy, if you are being sincere, then I want an apology and a promise.

Apology, because I don't know what happened with MBoS, but if your mentality was that much shaken, then you shouldn't have signed up for another game until you recovered. Signing up for a game and then leaving is an insult to the mod. Have you considered my feelings when you decided to leave the game less than 24 hours after we started?

Promise, because no mod, myself included, wants a player who will compromise a slot like that under pressure. I believe Firebringer played a

fair and honest game of mafia

during the time leading up to your replace out. You yourself couldn't point to the posts he made prior to your replace out that offended you. I need to know that you won't do that again the next time you come under pressure.

Yes, as you know, it was the posts after that I took issue with. Yes, I’m sorry. If I am ever that emotionally distraught over another game like I was over MBoS, I will not sign up for any games until I recover. If there was any game I needed to replace out of, it was MBoS but I didn’t. I had a meltdown in that game, for the first time in my history of playing mafia and I am still extremely embarrassed over how I conducted myself in that game. I very much doubt what happened in that game, will ever repeat itself anyway but yes, I promise and I’m sorry for way overreacting to that, in YOUR game. It won’t happen again.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I'm gonna go hit myself with a shovel for a while and think about what I've done

goodnight all

You didn’t do anything wrong. You have nothing to feel bad about. I don’t understand why you wanted to leave after moment/Brie flip.

You had no idea that I was scum and not Krazy/Taly.

I not too recently lost the game for town in Overkill 2, because of both swingy mechanics and rashly hammering at LYLO without talking to DVa first and I got a lot of abuse heaped on me by Cerb because of that post-game.

[Nancy Drew 39]

TY for the game FakeGod.

Besides that other stuff I thought you played pretty good Nancy. Gamma and DT were okayish.

I was hyped to be town in 2 dances in a row. Thoguht Id def get scum.
I wonder if this ends the dance meta of me leaving a partner.

Thanks I really appreciate that coming from you. You know I rolled scum twice in the same game, except the first time, it was with tw and Adelbert Stenner. Like, what are the odds?

I’m sure I’m at great risk for being mislynched in every game now. I went through that after Heroes Wanted, except this time, it will obviously be a gazillion times worse.

[Nancy Drew 39]

blah I feel like such a fool

dead thread and PTs are interesting to read though

it was a fun playerlist overall

Thanks for the game everyone and

thank you FG

for modding this interesting setup

No, I fooled everyone. You shouldn’t feel bad. I’m sorry I couldn’t have been your

town

partner. I would have much preferred that tbh.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Blah, it doesn't feel great, but I'm not bent out of shape about it. I think I should have had the ability to recognize scum!Nancy replacement request or no replacement request and I just didn't play well enough.

@Dann I actually did replace out as town in that MU game that DT brought up and I incurred a three month signup ban because of it.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Oh, huh.

I think I had a dream that Nancy was scum in the first one iirc? That is surreal to think about

I was. It was surreal that I rolled scum twice in the exact same game.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Gg scum. Well done poker facing the double wolf rand, Nancy.

Thanks, I knew as soon as people read the first scum PT, my towncred was permanently shot into oblivion anyway, so I thought I might as well make the most of it.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I would say to get rid of the coins one way or the other, still, personally.

+1

Or maybe give everyone the same amount.

Yeah, I liked the scum IC reveal but it was too much time pressure and certain players just couldn’t keep up.with the frenzied pace of immediately jumping in to an 8 day second dance.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Anyway, well played Nancy and Gamma.

Thanks and don’t forget DT. If it wasn’t for his brilliant WIFOM about Brie, we would never have been able to get that slot lynched or at least it contributed greatly.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Is there ever going to be an explanation for the reason of the cancellation of the first run?

There were suspicions of someone replacing out and attempt to replace back in under a different account, and someone playing under two different accounts.

Kison reported negative after investigation, thank goodness.

Oh wow, I had no idea.

[Nancy Drew 39]

@nancy I townread you before the replace out thing and kept townreading you after that. I was defending you from Fire at the begining because your game was very similar to your towngames, much more than in the first versiom where I correctly scumread you. We're still sisters right? You could be the evil twin, like in Wicked. We should sing defying gravity

<3 <3 <3.

Spoiler:

Besties before testies, forevah: BBTFs.

We need a hydra name. I propose, “wrecking ball”.

[Nancy Drew 39]

neither is hey i blame this loss on the person who had the least ability to influence it

I was not actually being serious in that moment and I also did not think Nancy was scum about to hammer, it's not like I actually blame you for this loss.

Why did you self-vote though? You had to know SOMEONE was scum, even if not me.

That’s how we won MU SB game. Town placed a couple of votes on a particular player and the scumteam voted rapidly in suscession.

Never ever self-vote as a joke.

[Nancy Drew 39]

let the record show that my 3 picks for scum following pvturists townflip were 3/3 of the scumteam.

I'm impressed

damn I wish I'd focused on sorting Nancy more especially in our PT

I basically assumed she was town all game long without thinking critically about it until the end

Maybe it wouldn't have mattered but I feel like I kinda failed by not trying/focusing on that more :/

How would you have sorted me though? Anyone who reads our PT and didn’t know my alignment, would have read me as obvtown.

[Nancy Drew 39]

And maybe someday I'll catch Nancy and be listened to >_>

Guys chill

The gamestate was heavily stacked against town going into the second dance and tbh this is roughly what RC and I both predicted as soon as we saw the Urist IC

One thing nobody caught that stood out to me was Gamma suddenly becoming much more active and posting wildly different reads than everybody else, despite the fact that her loudest critic (me) was dead, her partner was suddenly proven town, and town were already pretty split in the beginning of the second dance. This immediately made me think that Urist was given the IC to give scum-Gamma the room to sow as much discord into the game as possible with a shield to protect what otherwise would have been scum in one of the sketchiest pairings.

Plus, if Gamma gets lynched first, that scumflip is reasonable evidence that the other two scum are probably in a fairly good spot, since if the scum weren't doing very well, then I suspect there would have been a lot more pushing on breaking up the townblock that was forming throughout first dance.

Protecting Gamma was just a bonus. The real reason we did it was to get Dann obvtownread and everyone reacted just like I predicted they would.

[Nancy Drew 39]

No I couldn't.
I literally lost the motivation to play this game.

And you guys probably would have lynched my pair anyways.

You were probably the fourth most townread pairing when you both left. You killed the chances to lynch DT by accepting a pairing before we had sorted the plan for Dance 1, which would have given us an extra week to discuss that flip, and also made it impossible for town to agree on a coherent strategy for dance 1 pairings. Like if you want to play the blame game I'm more than happy to oblige.

I don't understand why you think I don't respect you as a player? I think you pairing as the top coin lady and then goading your partner into leaving the dance is pretty demoralizing. I went into this setup thinking it was scumsided and the game became unenjoyable for a while when my endgame pairings became compromised with a threatened obvious T/T leaving. I spent like days doing damage control with an entire town that constantly insisted my play was scummy.

@Krazy I >3. I’m really glad I didn’t have to push you. That’s why we had to kill Ank/RC because I knew I never could have convingly pushed either of them. I also knew I couldn’t push Taly. Initially we thought of killing you/Taly when there was still a decent chance of “anklebells” imploding.

[Nancy Drew 39]

let the record show that my 3 picks for scum following pvturists townflip were 3/3 of the scumteam.

How did that make you suspect me?

[Nancy Drew 39]

@Nancy, I'm mostly just mad at myself because I think I could have played a lot better in a lot of ways. After the Brie/Moment flip, the instant I realized there was a deep wolf is when I was most conflicted about you. I briefly considered how your read on me seemed a little unnatural, I'd also thought your hesitation on Brie/Moment seemed a little weird given the gamestate. However, I didn't reflect on the things that bothered me enough when I should have. There was also a lot of other things I did wrong, but whatever. I can take this as a learning experience. wp

DANNIEL MURIEL FLORENT, YOU SHOULD HAVE PAIRED WITH YOUR TRUE LOVE. LOSING THE GAME IS KARMA HITTING YOU IN THE FACE, WITH A CAR, AT FULL SPEED, DRIVEN BY AN ELEPHANT WHO SITS IN YOUR FACE AFTER HITTING YOU WITH HIS CAR, AND IT'S A HUGE CAR 'CAUSE IT HAS TO BE FOR THE ELEPHANT TO DRIVE IT IN THE FIRST PLACE. But I digress. YOU UNFAITHFUL BASTARD

I KNOW I FUCKING KNOW

I BLEW IT

I BLEW THE GAME I BLEW MY CHANCE AT TRUE LOVE

PB I never stopped loving you I hope you know that

my heart is forever broken

In what way was my read on you unnatural? Actually, it’s perfectly within my town meta to that. And in a game where we wouldn’t have been under such massive time pressure, there’s a decent I would have probably held up the game as town, because I hate to mislynch.

[Nancy Drew 39]

fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck

I thought a couple times "wow it's kinda weird Nancy hasn't been paranoid about me at all since we paired"

but that was the extent of any pingage

well played

fuck

I shoulda played better

Okay, now I get it.

[Nancy Drew 39]

krazy you're blaming the person who ate the 1 nightkill for losing the game when you lasted to endgame

you have literally no room to talk

Ank/Taly/you were bleeding obvtown. I knew there was no way I could convincingly push any of you.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Perspective slip what??? You were town.

I just thought it would make the game less stressful, lol. Anyway Taly seemed like a fun person to share a PT with and he is.

Yeah, if I ideally could have chosen anyone to partner with, it would have been Taly.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I also want to say that the moment PB said he was leaving, was the moment that he stopped being a threat to me, so at that point, I was in no hurry to get rid of either of them, so I was genuinely upset when he replaced out. That wasn’t at all fake.

Not that I wasn’t happy about keeping Gamma alive a little longer.

And I was also in no hurry to lynch m-bt but I thought - considering the deadline - had I continued it much longer, it would have looked suspicious.

Because I knew that she would push Krazy and delay the game but no one agreed to wait, so I really didn’t have much choice.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I also want to say that the moment PB said he was leaving, was the moment that he stopped being a threat to me, so at that point, I was in no hurry to get rid of either of them, so I was genuinely upset when he LEFT That wasn’t at all fake.

Not that I wasn’t happy about keeping Gamma alive a little longer.

And I was also in no hurry to lynch m-bt but I thought - considering the deadline - had I continued it much longer, it would have looked suspicious.

Because I knew that she would push Krazy and delay the game but no one agreed to wait, so I really didn’t have much choice.

Sorry PB, I’m getting things mixed up now.

The point is that all of my emotional reactions were genuine. And I was a total bundle of nerves until m-tb lynch.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I was pocketed by

NANCY

?

NANCY

? I was wondering if

Dann

was pocketing her. O_o

I was so misted I kept reading an emotional undertone in her posts that I didn't think could be faked. I didn't think she would play the entire game through applying emotion and engaging with every single thing in the thread.

I honestly didn't know why she would take pause on

Moment+TB

as scum. I wasn't going to IC her 100%, but why would she resist the opportunity to town/town lynch? To set up a dichotomy amongst the other townies?

That’s because I never fake my emotions ever, so what Auro said in dead thread is false. Every single emotional reaction I had was genuine, that’s why I kept hardtownreading you, it was actually not a pocket, which is why I had no choice not to.. You, like Ank/RC were bleeding town and I knew if I said anything contrary to that, it wouldn’t be believable. As for why I hesitated on m-tb hammer, I actually really did want to wait for moment to weigh in, because I knew he would probably push Krazy, so my hands would be clean but when no one backed me and no one wanted any further discussion, I realized I really couldn’t delay it much longer. It’s also 100% what town!me would have done. Actually town!me would have beeen so paranoid of scum in the town block, I would have probably pushed my Brie tr and yes Fire, if I were town I would have been torn between my Brie gutread and DT anti-survivalist scum WIFOM. I probably would have also hardtownread Dann for Urist IC and I probably would have been convinced on Krazy scum.

[Nancy Drew 39]

No, I fooled everyone

Yoi weren’t sr me before you left or you would have said so. Dead thread doesn’t count.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Moral of the story

Shoulda listened to Ank

Who had me as her #1 tr pre-intermission?

Also, I would have tr you as town for mechanical reasons as well for all of the reasons I’ve said. I was trying to replicate my towngame and as closely as possible. I do a lot of things, generally considered scummy as town and vice-versa and the reasons I was initially being ganged up on, I do that as town too. I was rightly sr for the wrong reasons. D1.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Good game all,

I feel like I definitely owe all of you guys more participation because I am usually a high poster. I don't believe I posted 331 times, but nonetheless, I don't think I am ever below #3 in post ranking in any game as either alignment when I try.

Kinda funny Krazy caught me in a meta that's not really true (I played really differently in the game I played against brassherald than I normally would for some reason), but still great job catching me Krazy, I rarely RARELY get lynched ever, especially as scum who would have teammates to help me out.

Everyone, imo, played really well. I know we dropped the topic, but I just want to reiterate

Nancy

You played very well and you carried us to end game, no doubt. But it's just not ethical to even mention the word "sub" because it would influence people's reading of the game in ways that it shouldn't. You've done this before and got banned, and I really hope you stop even mentioning. I know as town it's very very frustrating to be 'wrongly' scum read, but it is part of the game, and I think it brings you different challenges that changes the game up to be more fun in a way. It's just giving you an advantage that shouldn't be part of the game when you mention it, so it is good habit to just erase that word out of your vocabulary when you are playing forum mafia, imo. I don't think this should discredit the way you played very well this game and won it for us, but I want to see you grow up to be a

TRUE MAFIA PRODIGY

in the future winning without any controversy in the future.

Good luck on your next journey.

The difference, that this wasn’t the same situation in reverse. I was trying to avoid a ban for completely different reasons here. You were following the thread to know that I had a meltdown in a previous game on here, where I was being deathtunnelled and wrongly sr, right?

Anyway, thanks. Thanks to you, everyone knows about things they needn’t. It wasn’t really your place to violate my privace by bringing that up. It served it’s purpose I guess, so meh.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I count

Note to self, don't trust anyone else ever.

Not in mafia.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Just remember Nancy, I've only ever pushed a scumread on you when you were scum.

I only let that go because of the replace out WIFOM and constantly being told by so many people that I was wrong about it, and by the time I let it go, you plugged up the hole that I was seeing scumyou from

There was someone in dead chat who I was upset at being sr for the wrong reasons. They weren’t wrong. I have done the whole “why” thing as town too. That wasn’t a scumtell but the lack of pushing LATER in the game, definitely was.

Town!me would have been upset about your/RC death, probably wrongly assumed like everyone else that Urist IC had everything to do with Gamma and paranoid Dann as a result. Been just as upset for PH leaving but obviously for entirely different reasons, probably arguing for not rushing m-bt flip, since I would have been somewhat paranoid of Krazy due to both Urist deepwolf theory and moment/brie expressing suspicions of Krazy. Being paranoid of Brie despite town gut reading her and misled by DT WIFOM but I probably would have given greater weight to my gutread, since they’ rarely if ever been wrong: 70% reads accuracy for hard gut srs abd 95% for town. I would have pushed Krazy harder at LYLO since Taly was locktown and Dann was town dye to mechanics, tone, play and not immediately “ICing” me. If I had been town, Krazy would have been the obvious wolf. So there’s the difference I guess. Scumhunting and making effective pushes are still a major weakness for scum!me, making pushes, as you know from the Charisma thread is also difficult for me as town as well.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Good game all,

I feel like I definitely owe all of you guys more participation because I am usually a high poster. I don't believe I posted 331 times, but nonetheless, I don't think I am ever below #3 in post ranking in any game as either alignment when I try.

Kinda funny Krazy caught me in a meta that's not really true (I played really differently in the game I played against brassherald than I normally would for some reason), but still great job catching me Krazy, I rarely RARELY get lynched ever, especially as scum who would have teammates to help me out.

Everyone, imo, played really well. I know we dropped the topic, but I just want to reiterate

Nancy

You played very well and you carried us to end game, no doubt. But it's just not ethical to even mention the word "sub" because it would influence people's reading of the game in ways that it shouldn't. You've done this before and got banned, and I really hope you stop even mentioning. I know as town it's very very frustrating to be 'wrongly' scum read, but it is part of the game, and I think it brings you different challenges that changes the game up to be more fun in a way. It's just giving you an advantage that shouldn't be part of the game when you mention it, so it is good habit to just erase that word out of your vocabulary when you are playing forum mafia, imo. I don't think this should discredit the way you played very well this game and won it for us, but I want to see you grow up to be a

TRUE MAFIA PRODIGY

in the future winning without any controversy in the future.

Good luck on your next journey.

Thumbs-up to this post.

No because he had no business violating my privacy, so only a CONDITIONAL thumbs up, is ever appopriate unless you’re in favour of that and don’t think players have a right to privacy?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Just remember Nancy, I've only ever pushed a scumread on you when you were scum.

I only let that go because of the replace out WIFOM and constantly being told by so many people that I was wrong about it, and by the time I let it go, you plugged up the hole that I was seeing scumyou from

I swear sometims I think u are me in disguise.

Don’t scare me.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Anyway, @Pink Ball/Taly/Krazy, you guys are the best and made the game enjoyable for me. @Gamma, I would happily roll scum with you again but non-flaking scum!Duck would have been the best. <3 <3 <3

Dann, you played really well, so you don’t need to beat yourself up.

I kind of enjoyed the Worm. He eventually grew on me.

@RC, so glad I didn’t listen to my doubts about NKing you. Partnering with Ank was a huge mistake. You made both of you a huge target as we only could have killed one of you, had you been paired with others. Ank was your Sakura in this game, so it was like we had a double IC mechanic, almost.

[Nancy Drew 39]

laws of the land, not by my hand

Being bi, but not good for the brand

You were the most obvtown lady and RC, gent. I think RC dies over you regardless because anyone who played in Witches’s Ball, knows come 2nd Dance, RC was going to make that list and I didn’t want that either. But you were a threat for sr Dann, so there was that too. And I should get a lot more credit from more people for the Urist IC. We were originally going to IC Taly but we thought it would hurt not help us push Krazy. Had I partnered with Krazy, I would have hammered m-tb a lot sooner and never requoted mopent Krazy sr or advocated her weighing in for obvious reasons. If you and RC hadn’t of beeen paired, in that scenario, I probably would have killed RC and IC’d you for similar reasons to Urist - to help Krazy and paranoia him, like we did Dann.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Dann, you played really well, so you don’t need to beat yourself up.

Haha, thanks. Probably still won’t stop me until I have a chance to redeem myself though

You also played well, good game

<3 Thanks. Town!me would have tr you for the second guessing yourself fwtw.

[Nancy Drew 39]

That's risky, Nancy.

If I end up with a partner I can safely locktown, the game becomes white flag for you.

I wouldn’t have IC’d you with moment pairing, only if you had paired with someone scummier but good point, anyway.

[Nancy Drew 39]

No because he had no business violating my privacy, so only a CONDITIONAL thumbs up, is ever appopriate unless you’re in favour of that and don’t think players have a right to privacy?

One of the things I truly dislike is when someone makes a mistake, and then makes a new account and pretend nothing ever happened.

I, for one, am glad that DT decided to post your history. I've had people I've blacklisted try to sneak back in my games under new alts, and try to hide behind "Why should I tell you my main? You are violating my privacy!" argument when I ask for their real identity. You obviously have something to work on if this wasn't your first time being called out for doing something like this, and it's clear from his post that he means well for you. I would heed his advice, instead of being angry about him pointing out your past history.

Okay, you’re obviously misinformed here. I have the same account name here as I do on MU, so it reallly ISN’T ANYONE’s Business. I paid the price and no, I have every reason to be livid that you have flagrant disregard for my privacy. Our whole convo ought to have taken place via PM, not itt. I meant what I said. I truly do regret what I did and I promise it won’t happen again but that in that in NO way gives you or anyone else the right, to use out of site info to Publically humiliate me and hell no! what he posted her - clearly albeit well-intentioned was still WRONG and it’s unacceptable for you to be encouraging it. I have a goddamned right to privacy and anything off MS counts as PRIVATE.

[Nancy Drew 39]

@FakeGod, sorry if I got overly tilted. I was already upset that you had this discussion itt, rather than PM, which is the standard practice. We talk via PL, reach a conclusion, then you post THAT in the main thread, so I already felt extremely violated by that and when you then add insult to injury by lauding another player for referencing off site information and use it to further shame me, I have to put my foot down. You should have also told Fire not to talk about your private PM correspondence with you in the dead thread, instead you chose to not only look the other way but escalate it. I would have preferred to tell you this via PM but unlike DT, who I believed to have been well-intentioned, you decided to push the envelope with something that really shouldn’t be any of your business to comment on. I mean, where does it end? What if someone googled me and posted private personal info about me? Yes, I realize that is a major reach but your lack of concern about what is and what isn’t acceptable to be lecturing someone in a public thread is extremely worrisome to me. There is a very good reason for the accepted practice to conduct these matters,

privately

. So, what I want to know, is where does it end for you? At what point do you decide that me or anyone else has an absolute right to privacy concerning all thing non-MS related?

[Nancy Drew 39]

What even is this

Nancy is angry because she believes that I should have asked her for an explanation in private, and not damage her public image like I did through a public inquiry. In addition, she believes that DT should not have told everyone that she has been banned for similar behavior before, and I shouldn't have approved him afterwards.

I think her argument makes sense. She doesn't want people to know that she is a repeat offender, and she doesn't want her public image to suffer from this. I am of belief that you should always meet your mistakes head on, but I understand her position. Therefore, I apologized.

One instance ANYWHERE doesn’t make anyone a “repeat offender”.

Welp, if you INTENTIONALLY burn down a house and you regret it after the fact, the insurance company won’t go easy on you.

[Nancy Drew 39]

What even is this

Nancy is angry because she believes that I should have asked her for an explanation in private, and not damage her public image like I did through a public inquiry. In addition, she believes that DT should not have told everyone that she has been banned for similar behavior before, and I shouldn't have approved him afterwards.

I think her argument makes sense. She doesn't want people to know that she is a repeat offender, and she doesn't want her public image to suffer from this. I am of belief that you should always meet your mistakes head on, but I understand her position. Therefore, I apologized.

One instance ANYWHERE doesn’t make anyone a “repeat offender”.

Welp, if you INTENTIONALLY burn down a house and you regret it after the fact, the insurance company won’t go easy on you.

I am also upset that you just didn’t replace me att and instead lulled me into a false sense of security. So, mistakenly thinking you were acting in good faith, I worked really really hard, put my heart and soul into this game and did my best to carry my team to victory.

All the while of course, being blissfullly ignorant that you were trashing me in dead thread, which I had no access to, so could not defend myself and that you planned to blindside me post-game. Also, no need to drag DT into this. He is the only one other than me, who actually knows the MAJORITY/

NOT EVEN ALL

of the facts, YOU don’t! It is not even remotely as black and white as you’re incorrectly assuming it is but I get that you’re far more interested in passing judgment than getting all of the facts first. Why let the truth get in the way of this Spanish Inquisition, amirite?

[Nancy Drew 39]

I don't actually think it's beneficent to continue that squabble, but if you don't want replace outs to be used as a form of emotional manipulation,

why did you not insist she leave the game in pre-dance when she bolded the request? I feel like you're blaming her for coming back into the game when she had tilt replaced out. I don't think tilt replace outs can be prohibited since all that would do is make people lie more about why they're replacing out, mostly what this shows is that replace outs should simply be seen as NAI. And saying you're blacklisting her because she won a game using a form of emotional manipulation that you enabled by allowing her to remain in the game after the replacement request is confusing to me.

Like, we can all agree that there should be fewer replacement requests, that there should not be tactical replacements, that people should keep their cool more and not tiltreplace out.

But as someone who looked at the replacement request and did not townread her for it but thought she was town for other, also incorrect reasons, this seems like you're blaming the scum winner for winning because some of the town townread her for shitty reasons.

I guess if you want a consistent policy on replace outs, say that A) Replacement request should be made by PM, not made in thread, B) Replacement requests are final and C) Players should stop posting as soon as they initiate a replacement request. Generally, the rules are in place right now because sometimes people get heated and say they want to replace out but then change their minds. Which--as far as I can tell--is exactly what happened this game. She did not threaten to replace out as a form of gaining towncred; she intended to replace out because of tilt.

I actually don't even know if I should post this, I partly don't want to touch this conversation with a ten foot pole, but

I also think it's unfair to Gamma and DT to imply that town lost this because Nancy's slot was "compromised" when I don't think that really reflects what happened in this game.

*Backs quickly away from conversation*

+1

[Nancy Drew 39]

why did you not insist she leave the game in pre-dance when she bolded the request

I did.

That would have been a lot more fair. I definitely would have preferred that.

[Nancy Drew 39]

a good personal rule on replacing out because of what is happening in a game.
before requesting it in game. take a 24 hour game break and if you still want to replace out you can make a post with alot less emotion in it so people won't read into it.

I obviously should have done that. I was extremely stressed in too and under the weather. I was serious about replacing out att. I just changed my mind after the fact. I didn’t eat for days, during dance 2.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I agree with the above

It 100% beats feeling treated likea lab rat in a science experiment, that’s for damn sure.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Good game. First time I've been mislynched. By the time it got to that, I was pretty sure Moment and I were both town, but I really didn't know what to do about it, or care enough to fight. I'd already accepted that I wasn't going to endgame.

I never would have guessed DT was The Worst. Looking back I can see the similarities,

but the thought had never crossed my mind. I'd probably have accepted (if he'd asked me properly), if I had known. We probably would have been lynched earlier than DT/SS were.

DT/Duck, did you ever actually plan to be partnered with me?

Me neither. Duck, what have you been hiding from me?

[Nancy Drew 39]

DT is duckling?

FACT: We

all

have a little duckling in all of us.

[Nancy Drew 39]

He's not. Ank said "how dare you rolling scum with me duck" referring to the first iteration of this game, not this one. The worst was spectating the game, he couldn't be playing it at the same time

Meh, I wouldn’t put anything past duck. Almost nothing is outside his scumrange.

Better to be safe than sorry. Always assume tw is scum until proven otherwise.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I apologize, Nancy.

I think it's best if we don't cross paths again in the future.

You have my sincerest wishes.

I would actually be really touched by this but I already read your not so subtle attempt to slander me first, so I know this isn’t sincere. :/

[Nancy Drew 39]

Spoiler:

Town Cases ~ Part 1: Why is Nancy

Town

?

I've been up and down Nancy's ISO. I've read and reread our PT together at least a few times now. There is not a universe where you could convince me Nancy is scum.

To begin with, there have been a couple times when Nancy has gotten emotional during conflicts with another player that demonstrate her alignment.

EXHIBIT A: FIREBRANGER

If you don't remember, Nancy had a conflict early in the game that resulted in her nearly replacing out. Largely, it was a conflict that sparked between her and Firebringer.

It started in post #294.

allomancer is scum this game btw

Why?

nancy don't make me suspect u this early

Why? Because I want to know why you think Allo is scum?

It continues and reaches a climax in posts #561 and #564. Phrases of interest bolded for clarity:

I don’t know if I even want to get picked anymore. I feel like I’m being scumreading without any basis and every single attempt I’ve made to ge clarity on this, seems to get viewed as some kind of scumclaim. I’m seriously contemplating replacing out at this point and they can toture my replacement instead. :/

I think you should stay and we should probably PT together like a pair of masons! \o/

It’s better for town, that I just bow out now anyway and if no one picks me

, then I won’t need to be replaced. I honestly don’t know what else to do at this point. I just know, I’m not having fun anymore

@mod please replace me.

This is like MBoS all over agian and I’m not fucking putting myself through that. Sorry.

First of all, to state that it might be better for town if no one picks them is an

incredibly dangerous

claim for scum to make, because there's the very real chance town will take them up on the offer—especially so at a time when the slot is so widely pressured/scum read. The fact of the matter is, it's not a desperate grab for town cred. If you consider that emotion to be faked, you also have to consider that the replacement wasn't genuine, and to replace out of a game for town cred is not something I believe Nancy would ever do.

EXHIBIT B: DOUBTINGTOXIC

Well if it's a mathematical certainty that scum is in there, it means that it didn't take any scumhunting skill to generate... I could put everyone in the scum tier and say "omg I scumread all the scum!" but it wouldn't mean anything.

Re: Thomas's wall, I don't know yet. I'm trying to get him to talk about that stuff a little more in the PT.

Having played with DT in a MU Lovers’ game, I can tell you that activity is NAI for him but town!him would express strong opinions in your PT. He did in ours - they were dead wrong but he definitely didn’t lack conviction.

did you want to be in my Lover PT that badly? why is this the only thing you talk about

Lolwut?

You were town in that game and it was blatantly obvious, soley based on what you posted in our DC.

Well if it's a mathematical certainty that scum is in there, it means that it didn't take any scumhunting skill to generate... I could put everyone in the scum tier and say "omg I scumread all the scum!" but it wouldn't mean anything.

Re: Thomas's wall, I don't know yet. I'm trying to get him to talk about that stuff a little more in the PT.

Having played with DT in a MU Lovers’ game, I can tell you that activity is NAI for him but town!him would express strong opinions in your PT. He did in ours - they were dead wrong but he definitely didn’t lack conviction.

did you want to be in my Lover PT that badly? why is this the only thing you talk about

Lolwut?

You were town in that game and it was blatantly obvious, soley based on what you posted in our DC.

wtf? why are you lying you literally cussed me out in discord lover PT for thinking you could be scum

you said "you are just scum at this point for not obv town reading me" then you got banned for angleshooting (lol)

don't pretend you correctly town read me. you literally subbed out cuz u thought i was a scum for not reading you town

which was kinda insane

I obtown read you and yes, thanks for reminding me of something I’d really rather forget. I was trying to do whatever I could think of to get you to see that I was town, so we wouldn’t lose the game with our mislynch.
I knew I had majorly fucked up by wrongly pushing El pair mislynch and you promised to lynch us if they flipped town, so yes I really was that desperate for you not to lose us the game because you totally sucked at reading me. Happy now.?

Yeah, and I paid the price for it, as you’ve already said.

Gamma, interesting. What connection do you see between Moment and I and DT then?

Also it's time to get this moving along.
VOTE: Doubting Thomas

L-1

DT was consistently pushing both me and TB but voted me for most of that period and was up my ass. That tells me the TB push was likely distancing.
Also VOTE: TheBrie again

I’m just really glad he’s out of the game.

He was being toxic and him throwing that game in my face like that, was really mean.

Spoiler:

My argument was that you should have had reads three days ago and that town is on the clock. I think I made exactly one post about it. Stop acting like I was talking up a storm about your post activity, that was simply me refuting the notion that there wasn't enough to work with irt your slot to get a read.

i town read SS and not scum read SS. that is not hard to understand. I think there are definite scum in Gamma or Brie. Maybe in PB, Nancy, etc if I look more into it.

As far as I know this is your reads right now. We have 5 days to solve the game. Who gets lynched today DT? Why are you continuing to bitch about me not spoonfeeding you interactions when you are presenting 0 indications of a solving mindset? Do you want Brie lynched today? Do you want Gamma to go first? Why in that order?

I have read your games and you are not this directionless as town. I feel like you just want to throw dirt at whoever is online and posting rather than working toward a gamesolve.

I thought I made my reads on other players to a certain degree so I am confused as to why you are trying to shade me this hard.

I think Gamma is obv scum but didn't realize she is partners with IC. Thinking maybe we can let them live technically just because we know for sure her partner is town and you made a fair point about gamma 'spewing'

I think Worm/PB are pretty null.

I think Brie's "reads" have been very subpar. I explained this before but you haven't read my posts properly so I will say it again

These are all of her "reads" that she made today:

Leaning towards scum on Moment, but he's not giving me anything to read. Conflicted on Pink Ball.

I went and did meta on Gamma. Her game is quite similar as town and scum, as town she's got more questions that force others to get involved and are really challenging, as a little less "Explain this" and sort of mechanical stuff, or comments on how people are playing. But it's close, and I can't tell which side this falls on. Maybe a tiny bit towards the scum side, but not enough to say anything solid. It's not outside her town range.

There's a few things that give me a scummy feel, but overall... I've not gotten her sorted out. i just know I'm not putting her solidly in as town.

In summary, she basically just says, "I lean scum. but he doesn't have any content to base my read on him. Idk Pink ball. I did meta on Gamma. I can't tell if she's town or scum. maybe a little scum. Don't have anything solid.

This is definition of hedging and she is refusing to take a stance. I think that is an overtly scum trait.

I also don't buy her explanation of insta accepting moment's invitation, as S_S pointed out

Mostly because I was afraid life would hardly let me on before the deadline. i had a couple days of full on work (waking up at three am), and I didn't know then how tired I would be the rest of the time. Bad reason.
Also, I wasn't really townreading SS then, and didn't really want her with Moment.

i don't really see scum!Moment asking scum!SS when he had a reasonable chance of town!me accepting. So currently townreading SS. Not townreading Moment, but I want to see him post again before making a final judgement.

I think this is >rand scum thing to do.

I also think Nancy constantly talking about my lover PT is >rand scum. I cannot understand why she thinks that would be NAI and scum read me for it. sounds scummy.

I think Worm's tone is townie, but I am confused as to why he completely ignored you and my interaction to talk about me at all in the last 10 pages that I read

I think Gamma has done very little solving and noone really town reads her. I think the way she got mad and attacked me out of nowehre is extremely scummy because she was blatantly lying about my progression on her. I think she can go, but I can accept why people wouldn't want to lynch her because she is lovers with an IC.

In that sense, I think Brie also has very high scum equity especially with her performance today. I haven't read Moment at all. hopefully he comes back soon. maybe ill iso him eventually.

I think nancy has good scum equity as well for oddly attacking me for not talking in lovers PT when i simply havent been on. I also think it was weird for her to give a reason for twon reading dann by using a post itt despite having lovers PT she so loves to talk about with him. i think dann is kinda townie for his posts tho and i initially town read nancy, so i personally prefer brie's lynch who i scum read harder and have no opinion on the lover for

i made all of this pretty clear in my recent posts so don't give me the "i dont see any reads from you" shit. read my shit.

i think you are just conf biasing and not reading my posts to tunnel me. i think you cussing me out is unnecessary and just provoking me really hard. believe me i can get real toxic real fast.

i don't want to go down that path so if you unnecessarily cuss me out again i will just ignore your presence and play the game around so i can at least leave a good legacy if you are just gonna deathtunnel me. i do think you are somewhat townie (despite S_S believing otherwise) and I think Taly is very townie so I don't want to get involved in a useless mess with you.

good luck with the rest of the game if you have anything intelligent to say that you want to approach me in a mature way to talk about, i'd be glad to talk. otherwise, i think you are just stuck in a tunnel and will play the game around you

So, in this post DT does say both Brie and Gamma are scum. The difference is he actually cases Brie here and I bolded a part towards the top where he says Gamma can actually be left alive. So I'd actually say he was pushing Brie more than you, Gamma.

Also good to note, right below the bolded portion, he has PB/Dr Worm as null. That, imo combined with his interactions with PB later make more sense as soft distancing.

I have experience with scum!DT and he is really clever. He fooled me in MU Suk game, so it’s extremely likey that he was deliberately trying to get himself lynched to save at least one of his buddies.

I think his shitting on me for pushing him posting in his PT, was just WIFOM to make everyone think he was afraid of it but I think it’s well within his scumrange to have fooled SS, if he had really wanted to. He was open wolfing here and he obviously knew it.

Spoiler:

Nancy and DT have lowkey clashed all game, but this was the peak of it, occurring from posts #4825 to #5060. If you believe Nancy is scum, then you must also believe all the Nancy/DT interactions this game are scum theatre. Again, I read Nancy as completely genuine here. I think if Nancy and DT really had been scum buddies here, Nancy would have replaced out a long long time ago. I don't think that's a stretch to assert.

There are other things that point towards Nancy being town too. Namely, the choice of IC. Selecting PvtUrist as the IC directs more suspicion towards me. If we are entertaining the fact that Nancy could be the deepwolf, her game plan requires that she survive till endgame. ICing Pvt puts the odds against her by splashing suspicion on me. If I'm the most suspicious person going into endgame, it's not likely Nancy will win it. Scum in this setup, particularly a deep wolf in this situation, has to play to survive until endgame. This means they have to avoid the deaths of both themselves and their partner.

Another point in Nancy's favor is that she initially pushed to have Krazy as her lover. This is a good because Krazy at no point was "universally town read," with RC being a far better candidate. I think if Nancy was scum, she would have pushed harder to be in a pair with RC.

In the end, if Nancy is scum here, she deserves to win a fucking Oscar.

this whole post didn't age well.
Nancy gets an Oscar now?

<3



I’d be more than happy to settle for the mod congratulating my team on its victory but I’m not that much of an optimist.

@mod:

[Nancy Drew 39]

It was stupid of me to base my town case off of an attempted replace-out. I don't really blame Nancy, it was my fault for thinking it was AI

At least I'll hopefully have a more critical eye for AtE in general going forward

If you believe Nancy is scum, then you must also believe all the Nancy/DT interactions this game are scum theatre.

I never fake my emotions

. AtEing for me like derping, is 100% NIA and ftr, I actually was upset and freaked out by that post DT. The only reason I didn’t react more strongly was that you gave me the heads up in scumchat, that you were going to do something kind of brutal, so I basically tried my best brace myself for it. I just had no idea what.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I think this game should serve as a springboard for a shift in site meta to regard toxic 1v1s as scum theater and to lynch both slots.

Isn’t that like every mafia game ever?

[Nancy Drew 39]

This is also what happens when endgame pairings in the previous run are generated based on personality conflicts.

Create a town strategy of endgaming based on hostility, and you create a strong incentive to create a hostile gamestate as a means of advancing the scum wincon.

???

DT wasn’t in the previous run. *confused*

[Nancy Drew 39]

In witches ball, I mean, not the false started run of this setup

Ok maybe I'm still bitter about being denied a pairing with creature

He wasn’t in that one either, unless you are referring to Short? That PT wasn’t exactly “friendly”, when I replaced in.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Unfortunately one frustration of this setup is that read accuracy based on pt interactions cannot be evaluated... really the pts in that regard almost exclusively help scum in pocketing attempts. If you say Nancy is town based on PT interactions, then it is hard to evaluate that objectively. I notice that the town pts tended to have a lot more shitposting, or just nothing, whereas all the scum were highly motivated to appear solvey. I guess the PTs are exclusively there to accelerate and amplify scum pocketing attempts. I think Witches Ball went more smoothly because there was no need to continue solving after the PTs were created.

Tbf

If RC wasn't so sure we were going to be NKed, we probably would have taken the PT much more seriously

I love abusing neighborhoods when I have an opportunity to

[Nancy Drew 39]

Final note before I sleep

I think people underestimate how deep of a mind/social game Mafia can be.

It's literally one of those games people can play while putting down their societal barriers on how they communicate with someone.

It brings people back to a raw mentality of how to socialize, how to interpret people, and how to solve problems among a group of people who share a mutual interest or are trying to deter that mutual interest from accomplishing anything.

That's why emotional outbursts can happen from most people regardless of alignment, and why actions by themselves in mafia are NAI a lot of the time.

It's a game of people who are pitted against each other and at the same time, trying to work with each other. It's built to create conflict alongside the excitement.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I'm of the belief that, in games that aren't town sweeps, it's incredibly important that town has a player or players willing to go back and really review the thread to put things in context.

Apologies that I couldn't be that player this game. The circumstances weren't right.

+1

There’d be a much higher town win rate on this site in that case. On MU, I won almost all of my towngames. That seeems to be a lot more difficult to achieve town wins on MS, for some reason. \_0_/

[Nancy Drew 39]

Why should town be allowed to be townread by replacing out, but when scum do it it's tabboo?

I disagree with being offended by anything Nancy did if you wouldn't also take action if she was town

<3

It was 100% NAI for me. If I had been thinking clearly, I would have done as Fire suggested and take a break but I hadn’t eaten, slept properly and was run down att, so I didn’t. I seriously thought I would lose it on Fire and say something that could possibly get me banned. I wasn’t thinking beyond that.

I also think if scum had lost, this conversation would not be happening either. I think FG, probably never thought that would happen - that we’d actually win - I think he never would have let me replace back in, otherwise.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Oh god this is still going

Yes, because the mod still persists in slandering me and ignoring the facts. I wouldn’t ever expect anyone else in this position, to just roll over and accept it, so why is anyone expecting me to do that?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Oh god this is still going

No comment.

Thanks for the game, FG.

I'm of the belief that, in games that aren't town sweeps, it's incredibly important that town has a player or players willing to go back and really review the thread to put things in context.

Apologies that I couldn't be that player this game. The circumstances weren't right.

+1

There’d be a much higher town win rate on this site in that case. On MU, I won almost all of my towngames. That seems to be a lot more difficult to achieve town wins on MS, for some reason. \_0_/

That was the reason for the “no comment”, btw.

[Nancy Drew 39]

MU situation

I wasn’t temp banned on there for INTENTIONALLY doing anything wrong. I didn’t know I had done anything wrong, until after the fact.

Even the mod in that game hard defended me, because he knew I wad telling the truth about that and was of the opinion that I now fully understood my my unclearly thought out actions, nevertheless resulted in that game being compromised

. That’s why he was overruled, not because the mods didn’t believe I was telling the truth but because of the results of my actions. They felt that the consequences of my actions wrt to that game outweighed my lack of any deliberate intent n my part, to unfairly affect the game outcome. This is what I was told, when I discussed appealing it.

[Nancy Drew 39]

1) There is 0 correllation between these two situations other than they A) both obviously involve me and B) mafia.

2) MU doesn’t even permit public replace outs for ANY reason and furthermore, any discussion in thread about such replace outs, is potentially infractable for obvious reasons.

3) Unlike MU, the practice is allowed on MS and rightly or wrongly, numerous players on this site have tilt replaced out for reasons not 100% being specifically connected to rl.

4). I hadn’t been eating and sleeping properly and was feeling run down att.

5) I had not been feeling well, probably at least in part to already being emotionally drained, to rolling scum in the cancelled game.

6) As previously stated, I was temporarily wrecked by both my meltdown in MBoS and the righly deserved consequences of that, which I incurred.

7) I had every reason to t believe that I could be banned if I responded to what was currently happening in that game, incorrectly.

8) Fire was right about my handling the situation stupidly. I obviously should have taken a break, calmed down and reassessed, as opposed to tilt replacing out.

9) This is WHY I apologized to the thread and promised to not repeat this behaviour in the future.

10) This situation ought to have been conducted in private via PM, out of fairness to me and the rest of the playerlist, and not turned into a Salem witch trial/kangeroo court/3 ring circus.

11) FG should not have posted he was banning me from future games in dead thread, after allowing me back into the game, if he honestly believed my actions had compromised it.

12) Dunn - the voice of reason - has correctly argued that it wasn’t my fault that anyone read alignment into my tilt replace out and that it is UNFAIR for me to have been blamed for that.

13) FG under no circumstances, should have allowed me to have replaced back in without warning me both A) what I would be confronted with in the dead thread and B) that he was planning to unfairly blindside me with this Spanish Inquisition/unwarranted public slander, post-gale.

14) DT isn’t fully aware of all of the details wrt to the MU situation, clearly didn’t fully understand what was happening at the time in THIS game and clearly misconstrued what had occured. He is also (like FG) not a mind reader.

15) FG should have done the ethical thing and stayed the hell out of a situation that both was not only a egregious violation of my privacy but what’s even much much worse - taking the position that he had all of the facts wrt to the MU situation, when in reality only the mods and myself can rightly claim that. I am not angry at DT for mentioning it as I honestly believe he misunderstood and had good intentions behind it.

16) The mod should never have made A) the loldafuq conclusion that these two situations are in anyway,

B) accused me of doing anything even remotely comparable in THIS game, when all of the available evidence, clearly points AWAY from that.

C) calling me a “repeat offender” is both insane and completely untrue as I have did not do what FG is insisting - against all reason - that I have done here.

17) I never did, at anytime during which the tilt replace out occured, ever even think about trying to affect either the outcome of the game or anyone’s read on my alignment. I simply was terrified I was in imminent danger of saying something that was going to get me banned and I now realize that there were much more reasonable and resoponsible ways to have dealt with that.

18) While I’m not sorry I won, I do regret signing up for this game, as the victory - if not my desire to ever play another game of mafia and ever expect fair treatment has been marred.

19) Krazy should be a mod on this this site.

20) I’m really sad for everyone in the game, including the mod - about the cringeworthy painful clusterfuck, all of this unfortunately degenerated into.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Nancy I think you need to take a break from mafia for a while if you are getting this worked up over it.

If you were being wrongfully publically accused of something you knew you were innocent in a situation, that should have rghtly been kept private, by the game mod no less, you honestly wouldn’t be “worked up over it”? because sorry I have a lot of trouble believing that.

Unless of course, you’ve recently become a robot?

I mean if tw really is DT, then anything is possible.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I'm not sure what you're hoping to accomplish at this point Nancy, I think it's safe to say you don't want to sign up for future FakeGod games, and he seems to be pretty done with this conversation, so while it's a shame that there's so many negative feelings in the post-game, it'd probably be best to just move on.

He still hasn’t withdrawn his slanderous accusation, let alone apologized to me, so no, not dropping it.

[Nancy Drew 39]

What even is this

Nancy is angry because she believes that I should have asked her for an explanation in private, and not damage her public image like I did through a public inquiry. In addition, she believes that DT should not have told everyone that she has been banned for similar behavior before, and I shouldn't have approved him afterwards.

I think her argument makes sense.

She doesn't want people to know that she is a repeat offender

, and she doesn't want her public image to suffer from this. I am of belief that you should always meet your mistakes head on, but I understand her position. Therefore, I apologized.

But... he did.

In what world, is this even remotely an apology?

It’s THIS post, in particular, he owes me an apology for - the bolded

lie

, in particular.

[Nancy Drew 39]

5741 is a pretty great example of how not to apologize if you want people to move on, but it is a great example of how to start a fight with your players in the post-game.

QFT

If he wasn’t the actual mod, I might not care but his opinion carries disproportionate weight and that is what is so outrageous about it, because he had to have been well aware that he was/is abusing his mod powers, when he wrote this post. Who even knows how many people read this before I defended myself against this disgusting slander, who wrongly believe this about me?

If I had failed to address it, people might logically assume, I didn’t because he was right about me. He clearly doesn’t care that the truth was pretty much collateral damage in this kangeroo court.

I made a silly mistake, which I owned up to, apologized for and promised not to repeat. Heve I even once backtracked on either one of those? No. So, how - on top of already egregiously violating my privacy - is this post even a thing?

[Nancy Drew 39]

What was the original offence? I didn't read it.

I was upset with Fire and instead of doing the logical desirable thing,

I tilt replaced out over fear of being banned for saying something I shouldn’t

. I have already mentioned all of the reasons, why this didn’t happen at the time. And do I rightly deserve to be held accountable for that? Yes. But that doesn’t mean I deserve to be wrongly accused - by the mod - of something I did not do: Strategical replace out to intentionally compromise the game, because some people made incorrect assumptions about my alignment.

I did no such thing but that is what FG is falsely accusing me of.

[Nancy Drew 39]

If it helps Nancy, I believe you. \o/
And if you didn't mention it I would never have known, so I take that as a positive win win between us.

<3

Thanks, I really appreciate it. I never would INTENTIONALLY do that and even the MU mods have acknowledged this. I wasn’t temp banned on there due to having bad intentions but in that case, UNLIKE

this

one, I was responsible for the consequences and I definitely did learn from that and FG was incorrect to jump to the ludicrous conclusion that not wanting my privacy to be violated anymore than it already had been by turning the aftermath of this game into a circus - that I had done what he is wrongly accusing me of.

I was in such a state of shock post- game that I was completely floored by what FG was doing but now that I have calmed down, I will continue to state and restate the truth, because if I don’t someone will inevitably unfairly throw this bullshit slander in my face, at some point in the future.

[Nancy Drew 39]

NANCERY you ONLY need 908 MORE POSTS to get to 2000!! I BELEIVE YOU CAN DO IT IF YOU PUT YOUR MIND TO IT!!

What happens when I get to 2000?

[Nancy Drew 39]

I think FG already moved on from this

Because he’s afraid to face me.