Anime U-Pick: King Size [SEASON FINALE...?]

[SuperfluousNinja]

There were NUMEROUS people who said they would be targeting toogeloo to ensure they died. It's a fair assumption that scum, if they had a targeting ability, would have targeted Toog; it's also a fair assumption that town also targeted Toog; it's ALSO possible that scum just didn't bother because they knew Mastina/others who said they'd target Toog were town and they could trust them to do it for them.

If someone has a watcher result on Toog last night, it's likely worth sharing to give us another pool to look at, but I wouldn't view it as particularly conclusive.

-Yukiteru

Why would town want him dead? Was he on a lot of scumdars?

[Torque]

@RP

mastina and myself aren't touching you, I think

[SuperfluousNinja]

Also, can someone please make the case against my slot? Do you have anything other than activity level which is IMO a very poor metric of scumminess? I tend to think that scum is always very eager to jump on the low activity slots as easy pickings. I don’t at all underestimate anyone’s ability to play a strong scum game and fool everyone, enough so that it’s too obvious to simply pick on slots like mine.

[Reasonably Psychotic]

Also, can someone please make the case against my slot? Do you have anything other than activity level which is IMO a very poor metric of scumminess? I tend to think that scum is always very eager to jump on the low activity slots as easy pickings. I don’t at all underestimate anyone’s ability to play a strong scum game and fool everyone, enough so that it’s too obvious to simply pick on slots like mine.

I don't think there really is one(likely the only reason why S&J was lynched over you, once people started moving away from Severa/the FL slot(other than Severa's own push, of course)); I believe there was some concern about your predecessors entrance(the person you immediately replaced, not the person they replaced), but beyond that...nope.


At least, not anything compelling enough that I bothered keeping it in mind.

-Yukiteru

[Near x Mello]

I had made some points against robert (original holder of your slot) but its not something you can address so its not relevant

~Near

[Near x Mello]

Toog claimed n2 pgo in ch5 so he was probably going for wifoming the scum or something

its not really important. Its better that he died as many people scumread him.

~Near

[Near x Mello]

@RP

mastina and myself aren't touching you, I think

Why is RP town?

~Near

[Reasonably Psychotic]

I'm pretty sure you've given less reason for why I'm scum than anyone else has given for why I'm town.

JS.

-Yukiteru

[Near x Mello]

i dont give reasons and you know it

~Near

[Reasonably Psychotic]

i dont give reasons and you know it

~Near

I do.

I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy of requiring reasons from others for their positions, while giving none for your own.

-Yukiteru

[Near x Mello]

your just trying to discredit me, thats what youre doing

~Near

[Reasonably Psychotic]

your just trying to discredit me, thats what youre doing

~Near

I don't need to discredit you, you are perfectly capable of doing that yourself.

Also...historically, I don't discredit people in thread as scum.

I discredit them by letting them mislynch people.

Self-meta is meaningless, but yeah.

Anyways.

Back to work.

-Yukiteru

[Near x Mello]

^subtly saying "this guy was wrong on severa, you shouldn't listen"

~Near

[SuperfluousNinja]

I want to go back to this whole Toog thing. I need to read up on how this went down, but if I understand this correctly, at some point he freely told everyone that his role is such that if he gets targeted N2, he will die.

I legitimately do not understand why any townie would use a night action on him to kill him. Consider the two scenarios:

If a town player thinks he really is town, then why would this player want to kill town? Furthermore, why would this player want to waste his ability which is almost certainly much more than “Target a player so you can trigger some effect he may have”?

If a town player had any suspicions at all and thought he might NOT be town, then you would have to believe that a scum player, whose primary goal in this game is to stay alive, openly told everyone exactly how to kill him without even needing to lynch him. Furthermore, you would have to trust that there was no twist in killing him by targeting him to kill him, and it ought to be obvious that the only reason a scum would want to be targeted by a night action would be if he had an ability that allowed him to mess up whoever targeted him. In short, if he’s scum, logic would dictate that it’s a trap.

So I am highly suspicious of anyone who claims to be town and targeted him last night, as well as highly suspicious of anyone who thought what happened here was NBD and not worth discussing. I.E. the guy I’m currently voting for.

[Joan of Arc]

I have words to say, words that won't be pleasant, so I think I will just meme for today.

[Reasonably Psychotic]

^subtly saying "this guy was wrong on severa, you shouldn't listen"

~Near

Naw. If it seemed likely that Severa was a scum kill, then that's a really good point, but otherwise...not so much. Of course, in that scenario you'd have to ignore the fact that scum!me is actually way better at this game than town me, and everything that implies.

I want to go back to this whole Toog thing. I need to read up on how this went down, but if I understand this correctly, at some point he freely told everyone that his role is such that if he gets targeted N2, he will die.

I legitimately do not understand why any townie would use a night action on him to kill him. Consider the two scenarios:

If a town player thinks he really is town, then why would this player want to kill town? Furthermore, why would this player want to waste his ability which is almost certainly much more than “Target a player so you can trigger some effect he may have”?

If a town player had any suspicions at all and thought he might NOT be town, then you would have to believe that a scum player, whose primary goal in this game is to stay alive, openly told everyone exactly how to kill him without even needing to lynch him. Furthermore, you would have to trust that there was no twist in killing him by targeting him to kill him, and it ought to be obvious that the only reason a scum would want to be targeted by a night action would be if he had an ability that allowed him to mess up whoever targeted him. In short, if he’s scum, logic would dictate that it’s a trap.

So I am highly suspicious of anyone who claims to be town and targeted him last night, as well as highly suspicious of anyone who thought what happened here was NBD and not worth discussing. I.E. the guy I’m currently voting for.

Check Mastina's ISO on the reasoning for targeting Toog; essentially in her PoE(and others) they had a decent chance of being scum, and were likely to be lynched, so more efficient to target them and remove them at night if they were a mislynch just waiting ot happen; if they were scum and lying, then caught scum. It was basically viewed as any action on them was a shot that would confirm them as scum or kill them, with killing them being something that would happen via lynch at some point.

It is, however, a bit weird that nobody(including myself, but I give myself a pass for not really paying attention) actually questioned why scum would make a statement that guaranteed their lynch on D3 if still alive. Nobody even really mentioned that it could be a wifom thing...so yeah.

You are welcome to, in the course of reading the game, find the people who were planning on targeting Toog.

-Yukiteru

[Reasonably Psychotic]

Toog claimed n2 pgo in ch5 so he was probably going for wifoming the scum or something

its not really important. Its better that he died as many people scumread him.

~Near

Also..

The guy who thought it was 'NBD' is the one I just quoted, not me? I laid out the background for the situation, and took no position on other than not viewing a watcher pool as conclusive given the many people who had said they were suspicious of toog and would be targeting him.

-Yukiteru

[SuperfluousNinja]

Actually, that'd be N3

I meant more in the sense that N2 is a bit of a drastic night.

For example, on Night 2 for me, if anyone targets me for any reason, I die. But only on Night 2.

So here is that post.

There were initial reactions of “he must be town if he’s doing this” from Dunnstral, Severa, and ugh I forgot name but she died N2 and is confirmed town. The scenario of him being scum seems much more preposterous so I give credit to Dunnstral for making the right conclusion. He slides up as townie in my book.

Spike / Jet’s reaction was pretty blasé and skeptical which doesn’t feel like a genuine reaction to me. It’s a really awful gambit for scum. Especially on day 2, of a large game! This ought to be obvious for any townie...

[SuperfluousNinja]

Toog claimed n2 pgo in ch5 so he was probably going for wifoming the scum or something

its not really important. Its better that he died as many people scumread him.

~Near

Also..

The guy who thought it was 'NBD' is the one I just quoted, not me? I laid out the background for the situation, and took no position on other than not viewing a watcher pool as conclusive given the many people who had said they were suspicious of toog and would be targeting him.

-Yukiteru

If Mastina is the one that promoted this idea, then yes, that makes me very suspicious of Mastina.

I just think the logic clearly demonstrates that anyone who targeted him would have to be scum and that there is clearly quite a bit to learn here. I didn’t get the impression that you wanted this closer look.

[Near x Mello]

i dont agree with you. Town could have easily targeted toog

Scum most likely didnt because they wouldn't risk toog being a pgo

~Near

[Near x Mello]

also spike & jet are also flipped and town

so far youve been 0/3

~Near

[Reasonably Psychotic]

Toog claimed n2 pgo in ch5 so he was probably going for wifoming the scum or something

its not really important. Its better that he died as many people scumread him.

~Near

Also..

The guy who thought it was 'NBD' is the one I just quoted, not me? I laid out the background for the situation, and took no position on other than not viewing a watcher pool as conclusive given the many people who had said they were suspicious of toog and would be targeting him.

-Yukiteru

If Mastina is the one that promoted this idea, then yes, that makes me very suspicious of Mastina.

I just think the logic clearly demonstrates that anyone who targeted him would have to be scum and that there is clearly quite a bit to learn here. I didn’t get the impression that you wanted this closer look.

SN, you don't know me.

I want a closer look at everything, all the time, regardless of alignment.

At some point, when points have been discussed forever, I might tell people that they should move their focus to another thing, but that's like...after days and hundreds of posts. The entire way I play and scumhunt is based on taking closer looks at things and finding tiny details that don't fit in with the narratives people are weaving, and pushing those things.

It *IS* a pretty grievous failing on the part of everyone, including myself, to not conclude that Toog made more sense as town than scum because their action guaranteed their lynch on D3 if scum. However, you don't like meta; that makes me unsure how you're going to use this information to scumhunt. Without essential BoP arguments against people, what are you looking for, and how are you determining what's scum motivated play versus dumb town...given that almost nobody actually concluded that Toog was probtown due to their claim/pressured people who disagreed with that conclusion.

Most of those people who didn't act are town, by definition. What differentiates the scum from the town?

-Yukiteru

[Reasonably Psychotic]

also spike & jet are also flipped and town

so far youve been 0/3

~Near

AND YET YOU'RE VOTING THE SAME PERSON AS THEM.

-Yukiteru

[Near x Mello]

almost nobody actually concluded that Toog was probtown

speak for yourself

how many times did i say toog is town?

~Near

[Near x Mello]

also spike & jet are also flipped and town

so far youve been 0/3

~Near

AND YET YOU'RE VOTING THE SAME PERSON AS THEM.

-Yukiteru

wtf is your point?

~Near