A BulletNLynchProof 9p pre-designed setup of some sort

[Something_Smart]

Ego.

[Something_Smart]

I think it just takes some time (20 minutes to an hour) until it shows up. Something about making sure people don't accidentally see topics they shouldn't? Idk, but it's working now

[Something_Smart]

The point is fine in itself, although it's pretty unlikely it will ever trigger (and if it does, it will probably end up with town eating itself alive, although maybe not since it's unlikely either of the visits will be to the player that died).

The tracker and RB is SUPER swingy though... a day 1 scum lynch is dangerously close to game over. Changing the RB to something else would probably bring the swing to an acceptable level, and then we'd just have to fine-tune the balance. You could do traffic analyst as an anti-swing, or multitasking doctor doctor would be interesting if it's allowed. (I don't know if this is discussed anywhere, but implosion, would that be allowed?)

[Something_Smart]

Although as much as it's a neat gimmick to have a multitasking town role the tracker can see, we need to be careful not to amass too much town power in one role. If implosion gives the okay to multitasking doctor doctor, I would totally try to make that work, but if he doesn't or if you don't want to go that route, it might not be a bad idea to have the tracker plus two weaker town PR's, one or both of which are multitasking. That would help keep the swing down for sure.

[Something_Smart]

Okay, I'll bring it up for discussion after this game is over, so that if you decide to allow it, that will be accompanied with an explicit announcement.

Doctor rolestopper is close enough for our purposes and also definitely normal, so we can go with that.

Multitasking rolecop and goon versus tracker, multitasking doctor rolestopper, and 5 VT's seems a bit townsided. Comparing it to the Newbie setup goon/goon versus tracker/doctor/VT's, the rolecop doesn't help scum THAT much and the odds of a doctor save go way up, and the doctor getting two successful saves in one game is actually a possibility, although it is still pretty low.

If you made the rolecop a roleblocker, it would be pretty interesting... not sure if it would be stronger given that if the tracker claims while the doctor is alive, the scum not only can't roleblock it but would probably waste a night trying. I can brainstorm some possible scum buffs, but if you have any ideas you can go ahead and give them.

Of course, if you think doctor rolestopper is too gimmicky or swingy, we can switch over to tracker + two weak roles, one or both of which are multitasking.

[Something_Smart]

I'm not totally convinced that roleblocker is better though. It's good if they hit an unclaimed PR (though they'd probably have been better off NK'ing said unclaimed PR), and it's good if the doctor and tracker both claim in the same day. But if only the doctor claims, then it doesn't make much of a difference as the doctor is dying anyway, and if only the tracker claims, then scum either screw themselves by RB'ing the tracker, or they REALLY screw themselves by trying to kill the tracker. (Or even worse, they do both to protect against the possibility of a doctor.)

It's probably better to have something that's a little more potent against follow the tracker. Strongman is a possibility, and really the only one (other than some kind of ninja/ascetic which absolutely screws scum if that person is lynched) that can directly deal with the tracker claiming. I feel like giving scum a one-shot strongman and a rolecop or a roleblocker is too much, but since you wanted a multitasking scum role that could be seen visiting multiple people, maybe you could give them a weaker investigative like a motion detector.

Mafia one-shot strongman
Mafia multitasking motion detector
Town tracker
Town multitasking doctor rolestopper
5x VT

seems pretty balanced. Maybe a little scumsided... how do you feel about that?

[Something_Smart]

*poke*

[Something_Smart]

We can scrap it and make a totally different 9p setup if you want.

[Something_Smart]

Cool, pick one and let's take a look.

[Something_Smart]

You could probably have implosion make you a new PT and just never release this one.

[Something_Smart]

Seems a bit scumsided, given that the traffic analyst won't ever get a guilty unless scum choose to kill the neighbor.

Why the rolestopper?

[Something_Smart]

Ok sorry

Yeah it would be better, but I just think rolestopper is not all that interesting of a scum role in a 9p. There is exactly one person they are ever going to be rolestopping, until their partner dies and they're made pointless.

[Something_Smart]

Hmm
The neighbors already prevent useful results on some players. I don't think the disloyal rolestopper is that good for scum though because anyone it gets tracked to is confirmed town after it flips.

That setup seems pretty balanced. TA + Tracker could run away with the game but only if they're both believed and scum fails miserably at PR hunting.

Feel like maybe scum need a slight buff. TA inno N1, scum lynch D2, and tracker inno N2 is pretty rough.

[Something_Smart]

I'm just not sure about a traffic analyst in a micro where it can only guilty one person... I imagine it won't be very fun to play.

What does detective get if their target makes a kill that night?

[Something_Smart]

Right now, the goon can be guiltied by either investigative, and the tracker can't be guiltied by either, assuming the goon kills so the tracker can track. Is that what you intended? It's kinda rough for that one scum.

[Something_Smart]

I think it's pretty townsided, considering town always has a cop (TA with two scum alive, detective with one) and the town neighbor gets cleared if the tracker flips.

[Something_Smart]

Sorry.

It might be better to make the tracker a rolecop, if only because then they know not to claim it. Claiming tracker into this setup has got to be suicide. If scum aren't handed a fakeclaim that's a death sentence, there are a lot of fakeclaims they could use (most notably, any protective). That combined with the fact that scum neighbors are usually very strong for scum means it's probably within balanced range.

[Something_Smart]

With the rolecop change, I guess I'll pass it. Sorry I took so long, I just really wasn't a huge fan of the setup I guess.

[Something_Smart]

There are already two town investigatives, nobody will believe there are three in a micro.

[Something_Smart]

Maybe, but it will be hard. One of them will be actively clearing people and will need to be NK'd. If both scum are alive, tracker is weakest of the three and therefore most likely to be lynched, and if one scum is dead then the tracker will also have to be clearing people (and the neighbor will be confirmed town so town might get enough clears to just autowin).

Scum might be able to get one mislynch after claiming tracker, but it still sucks to claim a role that's normally town and was basically handed to you by the mod and have it actually be a trap.

[Something_Smart]

We can change it again

[Something_Smart]

Town is absolutely boned on a N1 fruit vendor kill.

Other than that it seems pretty balanced.

[Something_Smart]

It's definitely normal.

I feel like it might be a bit townsided, but I'm not sure. If the fruit vendor survives until day 3 then town could end up with four total confirmed town players, which only necessitates one correct townread to win... this is comparable to a setup like doc/cop/RB which was considered one of the more townsided matrix6 rows. (I don't know the new newbie setup well enough off the top of my head to compare with it )

I think reducing the fruit vendor to one-shot is still okay. The only concern is if their target dies, but even then town would still have two roles that confirm each other.

The fruit vendor in this case is even stronger than a cop, because if they get an inno they don't have to claim to share it with the town. If the informed townie is smart, they won't announce that the fruit vendor is one-shot, so that scum might not even shoot either confirmed townie n2 because they're looking for the fruit vendor.

How do you feel about that?

[Something_Smart]

Yeah I thought about it a little more lol.

[Something_Smart]

Wasn't the fruit vendor killed in that game?

Regardless, the informed townie knows the fruit vendor is town so I seriously doubt that will happen

[Something_Smart]

I was kinda thinking maybe mafia rolestopper. Roleblocker just puts more weight on scum's ability to hunt PR's while rolestopper can enable them to frame specific townies.

Tracker would also be interesting... that way if they track the fruit vendor to a scum player they can claim the fruit.

[Something_Smart]

One-shot rolestopper maybe? Scum need to know what they're rolestopping, so I'd give them a reason to save it until they decide it's right to use it. Otherwise they're just likely to use it on the goon, to no effect.

[Something_Smart]

It's just, I don't really want scum to be randomly using the rolestop... I want them to use it for a specific reason. Making it one-shot forces them to actually think about why they want to use it and what they expect to gain from it.

[Something_Smart]

The reason I want that is because then there's less swing around scum getting lucky and randomly stopping the fruit vendor. They should have to successfully guess the fruit vendor's target.

[Something_Smart]

Oh sorry. Yeah I guess full rolestopper is fine.