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callforjudgement Microprocessor
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I've been wanting to make a good open Smalltown for a while, and this contest has finally spurred me into action (as the mechanic is conceptually one in which the game is fundamentally semi-open and everyone is Named). Besides, I make setups with nonstandard win conditions all the time, and aren't the monthly challenges a good time for a change?
To balance the various subsetups of a Smalltown, the sum of how useful a role is for town and for scum should come to a constant; thus, roles should be good for town and useless for scum (e.g. N2 Informed), or good for scum and useless for town (e.g. Doublevoter), or mildly useful for both (e.g. Rolestopper in a setup where it's known to exist). I haven't been able to do that exactly here, but it's close.
Balancing a 9p with 9 power roles is also difficult; you have to err considerably on the side of "useful for scum" (thus the large number of manipulatives, and the use of rolestop effects for protectives). It wouldn't surprise me if this were unbalanced, or even if some subsetups were broken, although I've tried to keep things under control. (If it's unbalanced, it's probably townsided.) It might have to be run to work out where the balance lies. (Monthly challenge setups tend not to be all that balanced anyway, probably because it's hard to balance a game that uses unusual mechanics without having some experience with them.)scum· scam · seam · team · term · tern · torn ·town- BBmolla
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implosion he/himPolymath
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@cfj's: smalltown is a nice idea. It's something I think hasn't really been innovated on in recent memory. I've never really thought about the principles that would go into a good smalltown game. And I don't think I've ever seen the idea for a 2:7 smalltown. It's a cool idea. Definitely hard to evaluate, but very intriguing.
@bb's: Also neat. And kudos on making it both semi-open and have alternate win conditions :p
It's actually a really interesting idea for a setup... and it actually matters what the answer to this is: are you using NL at deadline or plurality? I assume NL? I *think* it might be scumsided if scum don't give the vig any extra shots, maybe. But I really, really like the ideas in it.- mith
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NL at deadlineIn post 27, implosion wrote:@cfj's: smalltown is a nice idea. It's something I think hasn't really been innovated on in recent memory. I've never really thought about the principles that would go into a good smalltown game. And I don't think I've ever seen the idea for a 2:7 smalltown. It's a cool idea. Definitely hard to evaluate, but very intriguing.
@bb's: Also neat. And kudos on making it both semi-open and have alternate win conditions :p
It's actually a really interesting idea for a setup... and it actually matters what the answer to this is: are you using NL at deadline or plurality? I assume NL? I *think* it might be scumsided if scum don't give the vig any extra shots, maybe. But I really, really like the ideas in it.
Might toy with giving scum more power at 1-shot and 2-shotCome see me in the Great American Melodrama in Oceano- BBmolla
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So for example, if the Mafia chose an Encryptor and a Roleblocker, the three town PRs would respectively choose to be either a Jailkeeeper or a Vig, a Neap or a Hider, and a BG or a Tracker.
Specific category role distribution can obviously be tweaked for balance.
I'm honestly not all that attached to this idea, but I've had the beginnings of a setup similar to this rattling around for a while and it was close enough to the specifications that I just modified it a little bit. Plus, I wanted to ego post this thread- ceejayvinoya
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No duplicatesIn post 34, callforjudgement wrote:Are duplicate toppings allowed? (Note: the setup is broken whether you say yes or no, but in a different way in each case. Probably yes is more interesting.)
Point me to where it is broken? I was thinking it's where everybody claims and this turns into a 2:9 chore.Ceejay is only gonna get better but his logic can be on the wrong side of lazy logic sometimes. ~the worst- callforjudgement
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Oh right, I missed that everyone claiming exposes the cop as well as the scum.
In that case, yes, it basically just turns into a 2:9 if everyone claims. Town can do better by delaying the massclaim to D2, though, in which case there's a small chance we end up in a vanilla 3:10 and a much higher chance that two scum get caught D2.scum· scam · seam · team · term · tern · torn ·town- Jingle
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As is it's broken-ish by no lynch. 80% town win.
Edit: It's not quite 80%. It's 80% to have 3 1v1's that scum has to win all of. Still though, might as well be a townwin after 2 no lynches if the cop is still alive.Last edited by Jingle on Sat Mar 09, 2019 10:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.This is a Parachute.- Jingle
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Setup B is Matrix6 subsetup C (44.7% town win rate within Matrix6). However, the town win rate would be much higher in this setup because scum have no viable fakeclaims regardless of the subsetup, giving town a substantial advantage compared to Matrix6.scum· scam · seam · team · term · tern · torn ·town- Jingle
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It's not, scum has a factional rolestop and is multitasking. If a tracker claims, Scum gets to have one scum rolestop themselves and kill, meaning the tracker gets no useful ninja. Scum have no fakeclaims, but they also have a way to interfere with town power.In post 41, callforjudgement wrote:Setup B is Matrix6 subsetup C (44.7% town win rate within Matrix6). However, the town win rate would be much higher in this setup because scum have no viable fakeclaims regardless of the subsetup, giving town a substantial advantage compared to Matrix6.
I suppose I should specify that no result is indistinguishable from no target and that A and B each have a 50% chance.This is a Parachute.- Jingle
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I'm not sure that works. I'm interested in tweaks to the setup, but I think that one specifically is a bit counter to the point of it being a semi-open. Basically, as it is, in Setup A there's a reason for the mafia to target town with the rolestop, even if it's not a great one. I think if I were to tweak the setup it would be to make the play of mafia selftargeting with the rolestopper a worse plan.In post 40, BBmolla wrote:Setup B is way more townsided imo even though Watcher is better than tracker.
What if the Bodygaurd was a Bodyblocker?
What do you think about making the bodyguard a shy doctor (roleblocked if targeted).This is a Parachute.-
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Not Known 15 Mafia Scum
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That's invalid, you have no alternative wincon.In post 39, Jingle wrote:Kind of a boring-ish setup, but I doubt I'll have time to come up with something better.
This, too!
Another invalid submission!
That's number 4!(they all break the wincon rule...)In post 32, northsidegal wrote:
So for example, if the Mafia chose an Encryptor and a Roleblocker, the three town PRs would respectively choose to be either a Jailkeeeper or a Vig, a Neap or a Hider, and a BG or a Tracker.
Specific category role distribution can obviously be tweaked for balance.
I'm honestly not all that attached to this idea, but I've had the beginnings of a setup similar to this rattling around for a while and it was close enough to the specifications that I just modified it a little bit. Plus, I wanted to ego post this threadLast edited by Not Known 15 on Sun Mar 10, 2019 10:06 am, edited 1 time in total.- Jingle
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NVM, there are no strict rules this time, misread that.In post 45, Jingle wrote:Semi open is an alternative to alternate wincon.
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