Micro 857: Burden of Proficiency Mafia

[u r a person 2]

ok. i'm town

given the nature of this setup i have 50/50 of catching scum. i will catch scum. scum know that i am going to catch scum.
scum strategy in this game is to mislynch me, 100% of the time. particularly given that the paragons will support it given that it makes their wincondition easier to remove the biggest ? in the game.

if you're town, you win by working with me and you lose by voting me or allowing scum to discredit me.

Seems legit. Let's work together, buddy!

[u r a person 2]

Where is the information on how this setup works?

From what I gather, we're in a 5p lylo. We need to lynch 1 scum today.

If we lynch one scum today, both paragons and town wins

If we lynch scum, town loses and paragons get a discussion period. If they guess both scum correctly, they win. If they don't scum wins.

Both paragons and scum have private day chat

[u r a person 2]

Hey U2, why are you trusting obvscum RC?

I like working with people. You wanna work with us, too?

[u r a person 2]

I think that she is scum trying to imply I'm being more reasonable than my town meta would dictate when in fact I was being (what most people would define as) pretty

un

reasonable and she was trying to force a super complex sounding train of thought for pushing on me after I already pointed out that it is scum wincondition to paint me as scum this game.

this is a lot more convoluted than what I was thinking.

I thought shoshin was just being sarcastic.

[u r a person 2]

RC might actually be town.

[u r a person 2]

She thinks that she can read me, fine, she certainly doesn't make these posts on the first page of the game as scum.

i presume you mean as town*?

[u r a person 2]

Hmm, not sure if RC's paranoia is fake or real. He knows at this point that he's paranoid of me every game but this seems a bit too soon for it, plus I feel like he'd probably wouldn't be coming after me like this so early.

kk

VOTE: Shoshin

I've seen enough.

quick vote

bold

[u r a person 2]

If I were scum, I'd be trying to buddy up to RC, not mislynch him.

This makes some sense to me because as I either alignment I think I'd prefer buddying RC to 1v1'ing him

[u r a person 2]

can't buddy me in a game where you lose when i lead on your partner.

I do see the logic in this argument. On the other hand, half this site scum reads you as a matter of course and paranoia.

Obviously, scum loses if you successfully lead on the partner, but if I, for example, were lynched today, maybe scum gets the win after paragons pick you because lawl-RC-is-scum~ reasons

I'm not sure that there is no path to victory for scum that don't go after you

[u r a person 2]

ya'll too fast for me

[u r a person 2]

If you're actually town, I'm replacing out of this RC.

=/

[u r a person 2]

i dearly hope town wins and paragons lose

this is not actually a possible outcome

[u r a person 2]

actually it is.

town leads on scum and paragons mis-select.

okay, fair. my understanding was the game simply ended on a d1 scum flip but turns out you're right

[u r a person 2]

I do see the logic in this argument. On the other hand, half this site scum reads you as a matter of course and paranoia.

Obviously, scum loses if you successfully lead on the partner, but if I, for example, were lynched today, maybe scum gets the win after paragons pick you because lawl-RC-is-scum~ reasons

I'm not sure that there is no path to victory for scum that don't go after you

so you state the former and don't understand why my progression is what it is and why I'm town for it?

I think I understand your progression, and I think you are more likely town than random, yes.

What I'm pushing back on is the conclusion of your progression - that shoshin is scum - which is based on

1) scum coming into this game with the same strategy mindset as you
2) you being highly likely to correctly scum read the partner when pocketed by one scum

So I'm saying I'm not convinced shoshin is scum.

[u r a person 2]

previously on shoshinpernatural: if i rolled scum against you i would try to mislynch you
rc: the clear play for scum is to push a mislynch on me and discredit me because I'm highly likely to lead on scum if I'm allowed to play town leader

This is a conversation that happened?

[u r a person 2]

U2, why is RC more town than random?

I'm reading him on tone, mostly ;P

but his progression, outlined first in the few posts after your entrance, was both convoluted and coherent

and I didn't like your replace-out comment, but think it's not very likely this is SvS

[u r a person 2]

but think it's not very likely this is SvS

Talk about this.

There's not much to talk about. RC is still going at shoshin hard even without the vote, and my initial reaction is that it probably isn't SvS.

[u r a person 2]

i don't think it's specifically paranoid of you for me to scumread you calling me scum on the first page right after I spelled out my feeling that scum's primary goal in this game is to attack my town standing.

I think if you're at all self-aware you probably expected that SOMEONE would scum read you for claiming that anyone scum reading you is scum in post 1

[u r a person 2]

but think it's not very likely this is SvS

Talk about this.

There's not much to talk about. RC is still going at shoshin hard even without the vote, and my initial reaction is that it probably isn't SvS.

What reason does he have to stop going at her hard until someone else comes in the thread? You haven't given good reason for him to shift to you, and it would be really awkward for them to both agree to invite each other and then shut up.

I think that maybe what you're missing is the meaning I place on language regarding probability. It may seem like I'm being purposefully vague, but when I use terms like "highly likely" or "probably" you can actually read into them my confidence levels.

probably, coming from me, means "more often than not" or "at least 51% of tine time" and as such implies a large percentage chance that the opposite is true. It's meaningful in so much that a single data point is meaningful to an overall regression.

My initial reaction is that it's probably not SvS. There were countless ways scum shoshin and rc could have entered this thread, and I think this option gets chosen less often than not. Additionally, I think being paranoid of one another, or using the other to generate discussion resulting in an exchange like this is likely from tvt and, to a lesser extent, svt. But by no means is this read (of them not being svs) something I would bet the game over on its own.

[u r a person 2]

Hot damn. 5 pages in already. Hi u2! Hi shoshin!

yoooooo

[u r a person 2]

Hot damn. 5 pages in already. Hi u2! Hi shoshin!

yoooooo

I like you more when you can't be scum ;P

[u r a person 2]

probably, coming from me, means "more often than not" or "at least 51% of tine time" and as such implies a large percentage chance that the opposite is true. It's meaningful in so much that a single data point is meaningful to an overall regression.

oh i guess i actually said "not very likely"

which, coming from me means like not more than a 75%ish chance of something being the case. I'd amend this to "probably not SvS" rather than "not very likely"

[u r a person 2]

so if you think that we're tvt, do you think that we're all town?

I see no reason why this can't be the case

[u r a person 2]

does shoshin have a history of trying to policy lynch you?

I know that I do not.

Let down your hair, RC. This is a safe space. ;P

[u r a person 2]

okay cool so we now know that at no point is a majority of this game going to policy lynch RC.

good talk

[u r a person 2]

Of the three active posters I've played with before, I trust Urap over either of you.

Based on the games I've had with U2, my reads are more trustworthy than his. Aubrey can back this up.

I dunno my D1 accuracy is consistently a strong suit in my games

[u r a person 2]

I'm reading him on tone, mostly ;P

but his progression, outlined first in the few posts after your entrance, was both convoluted and coherent

I don't see how you're getting town out of this.

Maybe it's controversial, but I think I generally see town players more likely to go down convoluted rabbit holes - think tin foil hat reads

[u r a person 2]

If you're actually town, I'm replacing out of this RC.

Town ping.

interesting, why?

[u r a person 2]

You basically threw a game I had solved for you on D1, U2. Not to mention the other game town lost before I even had a chance to post. Not sure why you'd think your reads are better than mine if you're doing worse in the games we have together.

Hey, now we had the same poe at the beginning of D2

And then things happened

And I agree, I have bad reads generally post d1, but my D1 statistics are actually pretty darn good. Not really trying to discredit your reads, because I frankly have no real understanding of your game, but I'm prideful enough to push back on you there.

And the second game you're referencing happened very quickly, and I while I ended up on the D1 wagon, I was not in support of either lynch occurring. Basically, I'm saying you are looking at a small and awful sample of my play.

[u r a person 2]

I think there's a pretty good chance that lynching either slot currently at 0 posts wins the game, tbh

[u r a person 2]

oh you were also the other half of TW in that starcraft game, weren't you?

[u r a person 2]

Yup it's on my wiki

[u r a person 2]

That hydra was almost entirely the worst. I barely read that game because my internet broke just as it was getting going (that's what I disappeared from the geriatric as well).

oh is that right? I think I remember that from the post game. Yeah, that was part of what derailed that game, but I'm not trying to assign blame. shit happens.

per sc2, You guys not signing your posts makes it tough for me to remember either of your styles as individuals, anyway so it's whatever

[u r a person 2]

If I hadn't lost internet, we win the geriatric game 100% of the time. But it's okay. I liked your play there by the way, not saying you're a bad player. I just don't think you can say your reads are better than mine.

Almost all posts in Starcarft were the worst. The few that were me were really obviously me.

yeah i agree - because we lynch the poe instead of you d2

but like i said things, like your connection failing, happened. Again, I'm really just pushing back on the characterization of my reads because when I get a scum read I like I'm going to push it, and I don't need to have been portrayed as having bad reads. I'm not trying to make any sort of judgement on your skill or ability to make reads.

[u r a person 2]

I tend to have better reads as the game develops, don't think I've ever heard of someone with better D1 reads than later.

well, you can go through my small sample size of games if you want, but you'll find that statistically I do

[u r a person 2]

I tend to have better reads as the game develops, don't think I've ever heard of someone with better D1 reads than later.

I have. It happens more when you doubt yourself or overnight yourself.

I think it happens because as the game goes on town slots get scummier

The problem can't be with my play ;P

[u r a person 2]

For real tho, I think it happens because I catch the obv scum D1 and the other scum is better and/or becomes more acclimated to the game state and how people are forming reads

[u r a person 2]

How are you reading shoshin now, RC?

[u r a person 2]

From order of town to scum, my reads go

RC
Shoshin
Singleton, Michael Scott

[u r a person 2]

How is RC townier than me?

For like the third time, I think

I am able to get my head around his early progression and the thought process behind it. It was more convoluted than I would expect from page 1 scum

and while I imagine town!you can make that replace out comment, I can see it as a scum response. Now, I'm also getting a hard nosed feel from you that feels like the vague conception of town!shoshin that I have, and that feeling came through the whole of our earlier convo as well as this repetitive question now, so I think you're town

but there's the diff

[u r a person 2]

if i'm paranoid about it I think that expressing that paranoia right now is unsafe because he townreads me and my standing in town isn't good enough to make an unnecessary enemy.

This feels like posturing. And I get where you get this whole paranoia that your lynch is right around the corner from, but this is a game where you can drop that.

And if you do, and if your town, it will show through better as a result, just sayin

[u r a person 2]

@shoshin it's the progression to the bolded post

Spoiler:

ok. i'm town

given the nature of this setup i have 50/50 of catching scum. i will catch scum. scum know that i am going to catch scum.
scum strategy in this game is to mislynch me, 100% of the time. particularly given that the paragons will support it given that it makes their wincondition easier to remove the biggest ? in the game.

if you're town, you win by working with me and you lose by voting me or allowing scum to discredit me.

You sound very reasonable, RC.

Hey U2, why are you trusting obvscum RC?

I am very reasonable

Hey Shoshin if you're pretending to be transparently scum instead of actually just being transparently scum you should say something because I was already considering voting you.

I was going to say the same thing to you, RC.

I think that she is scum trying to imply I'm being more reasonable than my town meta would dictate when in fact I was being (what most people would define as) pretty

un

reasonable and she was trying to force a super complex sounding train of thought for pushing on me after I already pointed out that it is scum wincondition to paint me as scum this game.

I think that she is scum trying to imply I'm being more reasonable than my town meta would dictate when in fact I was being (what most people would define as) pretty

un

reasonable and she was trying to force a super complex sounding train of thought for pushing on me after I already pointed out that it is scum wincondition to paint me as scum this game.

this is a lot more convoluted than what I was thinking.

I thought shoshin was just being sarcastic.

RC might actually be town.

[u r a person 2]

rc and urap, you both think stk are scum, correct?

I'm leaning that way, but not on their play. Null by play

[u r a person 2]

rc and urap, you both think stk are scum, correct?

i have made no comment on my scumreads and i don't plan to until michael scott and singletonking have posted more

How about your reads on us other than alignment? Who do you think is likely the most fun to have a beer with?

[u r a person 2]

@shoshin, what do you think about these posts?

Stk isn't a player. I noticed a while ago but wanted to see how it develops. I imagine you've caught this as well.

I took it as SingleTonKing

[u r a person 2]

ooooh I see my error now

[u r a person 2]

tbh with the mixing of paragons and players, I make this error as either alignment

[u r a person 2]

it would be very silly to put it past me to fake the saudade/stk thing as a dumbtell and i think it would be equally silly to put it past urap for the record.

also yes. While I have yet to pull a dumbtell as scum, I would do this.

[u r a person 2]

enter is probably town tho for the attempt ;P

[u r a person 2]

do you drink anything?

Well, I'll drink on occasion socially but I'm done with that part of my life. I used to drink a lot, too much.

sry if I touched on a sore subject.

[u r a person 2]

Coke and whiskey baby.

-

I’m going to laugh my ass off if you’re scumming faking a dumbtell U2 after our last bout.

My short term memory is pretty awful so I don't actually remember where in that game a dumb-tell came up

[u r a person 2]

You don’t recall me fighting against the constant slips from Brass? My heart is broken.

oh yeah brass did do that

and I def townlocked him for it

but I would also dumb-tell as scum for sure.

[u r a person 2]

link the game?

oh god you really don't want to read it

[u r a person 2]

viewtopic.php?f=83&t=78267

[u r a person 2]

It was the game where I really really learned the lesson on how using associatives can go wrong

well i say that but

I don't know if I've actually internalized it.

[u r a person 2]

we're not lynching the hydra before they've posted, if i need to say that.

you didn't have to

[u r a person 2]

What is white flag gambit?

how oka won the last game

[u r a person 2]

His townread on you seems like he's just unaware of your reputation as scum, the reasoning seems plausible from town U2. But I agree the posturing point isn't good.

I have not played with scum!RC in a non-marathon setting (I don't think?), but I'm aware of his reputation, and I respect that he is undoubtedly excellent as scum. So if your read is based on me not knowing who RC is, you should probably reevaluate.

[u r a person 2]

His townread on you seems like he's just unaware of your reputation as scum, the reasoning seems plausible from town U2. But I agree the posturing point isn't good.

I have not played with scum!RC in a non-marathon setting (I don't think?)

you mean besides this game?

oh, you ;P

[u r a person 2]

Can you link a post containing this thing? I'm not asking you to explain it, I just want an example

[u r a person 2]

But I can say that I am looking forward to you being able to read me at NSG-levels, so gogo meta read. My wiki is 100% up to date.

[u r a person 2]

thanks mate

[u r a person 2]

Oh I'm not even going to try, but I'm going to ask that you explain it if you end up pushing me to a lynch over this cloaked reason

[u r a person 2]

Oh your only scum game was the FA one

I pray for scum every game but the dice are not kind.

I had to replace into a slot I scum read to get a game

[u r a person 2]

Shucks

[u r a person 2]

U2, are you a lawyer?

Maybe one day!

I do research related to the energy industry as a contractor for a gov't agency

[u r a person 2]

Oh I'm not even going to try, but I'm going to ask that you explain it if you end up pushing me to a lynch over this cloaked reason

Also think that caring about the reason is scum indicative

ooh this is actually pretty good. It's not accurate in this very narrow instance, however, but I won't explain why

[u r a person 2]

I'm also aware that I'm adding literally nothing to the game right now, and unless the two of you give me reason to, I won't until the other slots show up.

[u r a person 2]

But I see no reason to see why this push is scum-indicative for RC

[u r a person 2]

but I won't explain why

Why wouldn't you?

For a couple of reasons

1) I'm not big into self-defense
2) I won't say

[u r a person 2]

1) I'm not big into self-defense

But this is the reason why I think that's actually a pretty good scum tell for me generally

[u r a person 2]

How do you know mhmsith0

I know of him

I'm not sure that we have ever interacted.

[u r a person 2]

My pet scumtell is present substantially in his town game as well

Does that mean you can explain it now?

[u r a person 2]

Worth a shot, anyway.

[u r a person 2]

im liking both ms and the zero poster as scum more and more

[u r a person 2]

Can I vote you, RC?

That was a joking way of saying okay, not a push.

this reads town to me

I think town is more likely to make the joke and then realize the implications re: page 1 after posting it than scum is to either do the same, or to plan the pair of posts up

[u r a person 2]

2. URAP, do you believe you're an easy read? Can you link to some successful scumgames of yours?

never tried to read myself, so i dunno. I've never been mislynched, though.

Nope, I have one scum game, it's on my wiki, and it was a loss.

[u r a person 2]

URAP: No real read here, but I'm a bit paranoid about his settling on the three being TvTvT pretty quick and being so ready to lynch from me and Saudade, while also saying he's adding nothing to the game and wants to wait for the other slots. I also figure town!URAP wouldn't be so quick to clear RC.

Hey now, keep it classy

If my reads were settled and I was "so ready to lynch" I would have placed a vote.

[u r a person 2]

Spoiler:

one of my strongest traits as town is my ability to not confbias on my own reads and to reevaluate when shown evidence that I'm wrong on something.

don't BoP my reads initially, develop your own reads and then show them to me, then when you've shown me the case sheep me if I still disagree.

hahahahaha

HAHAHAHAHHAHAHA

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

over do it much?

[u r a person 2]

Explain the pairing logic which concluded that I'm scum
if its sane you might be town
if it isnt...


HANS

GET THE FLAMEWEFFER

also doesn't feel natural or like a real thought process

[u r a person 2]

I think my response within reasonable bounds of legitimate responses

=/

[u r a person 2]

still like {MS + the suadade}

will be around later

[u r a person 2]

I'm glad you don't have a vote ;P

[u r a person 2]

Is that still a PoE or do you find any of my content scummy? If so what?

saudade is scummy af. your questions were after you were done catching up, but indicated that you hadn't actually read the game, and that's also scummy.

[u r a person 2]

If my reads were settled and I was "so ready to lynch" I would have placed a vote.

Not necessarily

not necessarily if i were scum, sure

but yes necessarily as town because I'm telling you that's how I plan on behaving?

[u r a person 2]

2. URAP, do you believe you're an easy read? Can you link to some successful scumgames of yours?

I already asked U2 for scumgames and he linked it. Have you read the game?

@MS you didn't say that you had skimmed until after shoshin made this post

[u r a person 2]

your questions were after you were done catching up, but indicated that you hadn't actually read the game

I stated then I skimmed the game, and I also outlined the exact rationale behind my questions. I didn't require to have thoroughly read at that point - why is this scummy exactly?

Do you have experience with Saudade? Why can't his play simply be his style?

no experience; it could be. But when I have no experience with someone, I judge them against what feels to me like a generic scum/town range

[u r a person 2]

As I said, my questions didn't have the pre-requisite of me having thoroughly read the thread.

that's reasonable, but you also said that you were caught up and then only backtracked on that once it was clear you had not read the whole game.

And I'm not saying that's damning in and of itself, but I'm not sure what about it or your game generally should be leading me to change my reads.

[u r a person 2]

But when I have no experience with someone, I judge them against what feels to me like a generic scum/town range

So instead of verifying with meta, you just Lynch every scummy looking player even if it's just their normal style?

I do my best to sort people, but no I'm not big on meta dives. Very rarely have I gone back to try and confirm something via meta.

And because of the assumption in your question that you believe meta dives to be worthwhile, I'll expect you to confirm that.

[u r a person 2]

Shoshin lied about having posted that question, so I assumed I just missed it as I skimmed and didn't read with close attention.

What did shoshin lie about?

[u r a person 2]

What are you talking about, Enter?

I'm saying with the way things look right now there has been a solid amount of shade thrown on both lurker slots. Giving the players that put that shade on your slot the power to control your reads feels like a bad move

I still have no idea what you're trying to say. Please be more clear.

saaaame

[u r a person 2]

The way the game was heading, MS and Sausage looked scummy before they even posted.
Telling the players who are making you look scummy when you haven't posted a thing is rarely going to end in victory if you're scum.

what did he tell them

[u r a person 2]

It feels like paragons want RC lynched so they don't have to sort him. I don't see Enter's analysis coming from a genuine attempt to sort the game.

maybe, but I think enter is just off base

[u r a person 2]

you should feel bad.

hey let's keep it to the game

[u r a person 2]

I do my best to sort people, but no I'm not big on meta dives. Very rarely have I gone back to try and confirm something via meta.

And because of the assumption in your question that you believe meta dives to be worthwhile, I'll expect you to confirm that.

Yeah, Meta is a useful tool to discern if something is AI - especially if you're scumreading them for it. Especially here, since we get just one Lynch.

Yep, agreed. But I'm still not going to do it. That would be a quick trip to burning out for me, and when you meta me you will find that to be a consistent position of mine.

[u r a person 2]

So can you spell out your reasoning in detail for him being obvscum?

Is this to me?

I've said no one is obv!scum

[u r a person 2]

URAP is this your town game or your scum game?

This is my town game, although the number of active players and the state of reads lead me to being rather fluffy last night

[u r a person 2]

these posts are all in the range of kind-of-scummy to scummy-af

Spoiler:

im not reading all of that

one of my strongest traits as town is my ability to not confbias on my own reads and to reevaluate when shown evidence that I'm wrong on something.

don't BoP my reads initially, develop your own reads and then show them to me, then when you've shown me the case sheep me if I still disagree.

hahahahaha

HAHAHAHAHHAHAHA

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

okay ill read your reads hang on but this was funny

I don't have high enough IQ to follow your reasoning, MS.

I mean it's simple.
I'm town so both scum have to be in the other four slots.

Assert Saudade town: One pair in {RC, Shoshin, URAP} has to be SvS.
Eliminate all SvS pairings in {RC, Shoshin, URAP} and it contradicts the above -> confidence that Saudade is town.

you marked me town thats good I mark you town as well

I also dont follow the pairings logic as to why you decided im town though

I bet you scumslipped you knew I'm town and just wrote what you knew instead of what you wanted to fake
HAHA

Explain the pairing logic which concluded that I'm scum
if its sane you might be town
if it isnt...


HANS

GET THE FLAMEWEFFER

just mark me town

if you're town you should mark me town because we're both town
if you're scum just mark me town because you'll have an either time mislynching the other players

No I'm just going to obvtown
making reads is too much effort and I'm usually wrong anyway

[u r a person 2]

Yep, agreed. But I'm still not going to do it. That would be a quick trip to burning out for me, and when you meta me you will find that to be a consistent position of mine.

Interesting - so if I assert that a behavior from X slot is NAI from meta, you'd just buy it?

No, but I have a reasonable expectation that you will meta dive me, so you will find it to be true on your own.

Not sure how this is tough to grasp.

[u r a person 2]

I'm glad someone understands the purpose of this conversation. =)

[u r a person 2]

I don't know how 420 would look townie at all. He's not obv!towning. He doesn't seem to be on any trajectory to obv!town. The post is a deflection of RC's request for reads, which is scummy on it's own. And he's undercutting his own ability to read which is next level fence-sitting since he hasn't even picked a fence to sit on.

It's a scummy post.

This should serve as response to both of your posts

[u r a person 2]

More often than not 420 comes from town who doesn't care about RC's request than scum actively deflecting RC.

That doesn't jive with my personal understanding of the scum mindset

[u r a person 2]

URAP you also SR Michael Scott correct?

Not asking you to vote right now just clarifying

Yeah right now I'm like

RC
Shoshin
MS
S

[u r a person 2]

did you guys break rc?

[u r a person 2]

oh good

[u r a person 2]

if there is lynch bait in this game it's S.
and then that would make for an MS + shoshin team

[u r a person 2]

i think they're very likely scum

[u r a person 2]

How are you reading RC as more town than me, U2? I don't get it.

if you're asking me what I make of rc spewing straight gibberish, I have no fucking clue

[u r a person 2]

I haven't fit it into the rest of the puzzle, and I don't know how to. I really just want to forget that it happened because I can't read it

[u r a person 2]

No, I'm asking how you end up with the strongest scum player on the site as stronger town than me.

oh, hubris

and you're both probably town, you both get the participation award just for lynching a not-town. there's no mvp ballot

[u r a person 2]

Your lack of paranoia about RC doesn't make sense to me.

so the read strength started because i legit just didn't want to give rc a reason to fight me, and he looked townie enough. my thoughts on those early posts were legit.

and then ms and S haven't given me much reason to change that thought, so like whateves.

And I think the contention between you and S over whether or not you have a meta read or you're full of shit are pretty indicative of exactly one of you being scum

which is where the ms + shoshin thought came from

but yeah, I guess it would also fit for shoshin + rc, but god damn i don't want the work of having that set of reads so let's just go back to what I said earlier.

[u r a person 2]

Wtf?????

I KNOW RITE?

no i don't

what's the issue

[u r a person 2]

I'm not falling for anyone

that's too bad, mate, we all need love and companionship

[u r a person 2]

RC, most people want to policy lynch you, but they're idiots. The correct play is to policy town you.

[u r a person 2]

RC, most people want to policy lynch you, but they're idiots. The correct play is to policy town you.

Given there's a 50% chance he's scum in this game, it's the equivalent of flipping a coin.

Yeah but the difference is that even if RC is scum here, finding his partner is an easier, more enjoyable path to victory

or that was my thought from the moment I read his first post of the game.

[u r a person 2]

That still doesn't explain why he's stronger town than me.

Yeah it does, if you think about it

and also, the SvShoshin dynamic

and the replace out comment

I feel like I've spoken on this a couple times.

[u r a person 2]

see and this is another great advantage of having a town read on rc.

I don't have to figure out if him faking a stroke is town or scum indicative. I can just call it fucking nai and move on to sorting other slots

[u r a person 2]

yeah it is, let's lynch MS

[u r a person 2]

Always townread me

oh hey, he's back to full form

[u r a person 2]

hey rc, im gonna vote ms now

are you going to bite my face off when I do?

[u r a person 2]

Don't vote people

not what i asked

[u r a person 2]

ok.

[u r a person 2]

Spoiler:

[u r a person 2]

Maybe i misread that interaction....thought you were talking about Saude. Speed reading. Apologies.

two thoughts presented there

S being scummy af

and ms being scummy for the whole im caught up but unaware of things that have happened

[u r a person 2]

You know, Enter,

you people

really get on my nerves some times

;P

[u r a person 2]

can't tell if i actually get on your nerves or if you're making a joke

joke

making fun of categorizing people by arbitrary distinctions you know nevermind

[u r a person 2]

Can someone bye my friend I'm town

yeah I'll buddy you some more

[u r a person 2]

good same

I'm ready to do this

Fight me if you're not

VOTE: MS

p.edit squeal away

[u r a person 2]

......I can’t fucking resist his profile picture.

once you recognize the cold, black abyss that is behind his eyes, it stops being cute forever.

[u r a person 2]

when's that what time zone are you in

[u r a person 2]

fine I'll hold off til you're done with your hangover

but like

I'm ready to end this game, mate

We're stagnant and the next phase is paranoia followed by losing

UNVOTE:

[u r a person 2]

can I ship you two

Is this an anime

[u r a person 2]

going to bed. lynch ms?

[u r a person 2]

i did but why not

[u r a person 2]

Sorry for my snappiness, I'm just a bit annoyed at the gamestate. I'll be here for a while but will get busy again (it's already a pain in the ass typing with a splint), if my incapability in posting is a detriment to you guys to properly solve the game, I'll replace out.

=/

[u r a person 2]

Was RC refraining from speed lynching a towntell for you?

this question is stupid

whats the point of asking about towntells that are really
REALLY
easy to fake

I'm wondering if Enter has a bad read. I've already established that fails to be a town tell.

He was under the impression that scum could speedlynch and win.

from your perspective, enter's recent line of thinking is obviously bad. This entire question and response to saudade reads fake af

[u r a person 2]

Enter is fine to flip town if it solves the game for him

I am not

I absolutely fucking loathe urap trying to railroad me when I was drunk, and I want the chance to discuss it with him and sort him and what not and we don't get that by rushing the game

gtfo with the whole railroad shit. I asked to lynch, you were like no not til im sober. i unvote. you say, hey I'm functional now, so I bring it up, and then you're somehow drunk again and i drop it

i don't understand the need for the over the top language

[u r a person 2]

I'm intensely sketched out by the fact that both Saudade and URAP tried to look for an early end to the day

you got us

as S+S we decided to both make a push at a quick lynch while the other was not online

brilliant work, rc

[u r a person 2]

Why is Saudade scum

I think that URAP is scum who was trying to abuse my being intoxicated to score an easy mislynch on MS and then when that failed Saudade tried to get MS to help score a mislynch on Shoshin.

this is not a thing you believe. this is you posturing as whatever the fuck alignment you are

[u r a person 2]

Basically

I don't want to have to sort Saudade / Shoshin at this point

I'm fairly happy saying that the negative feelings URAP gave me were probably because he's scum now that I've looked at how he tried to finesse me today. But Saudade is seeking to make the game about him/Shoshin in a situation where the other scum is obviously easier to resolve.

Again, this doesn't work if you don't townread me.

like the only reason this bullshit doesn't reverse my read on you is because you also hard scum read me in the vengecop that just ended. You were wrong there. You're probably wrong!town here

[u r a person 2]

And I get more mileage out of all this talking to urap than anyone else so I wanna do that

im here for 15 more minutes then gone for a few hrs

[u r a person 2]

and ms being scummy for the whole im caught up but unaware of things that have happened

I dismantled this and yet he scumreads me for this.
I said I'll catch up.
I asked a question.
Shoshin said she asked it already.
I said alright, might have missed it because I skimmed.

He's pulling an inconsistency from nowhere, not heeding my rebuttal.

you haven't dismantled it. yes, it happened as you described above, but that doesn't stop it from being scummy.

[u r a person 2]

you haven't dismantled it. yes, it happened as you described above, but that doesn't stop it from being scummy.

So you admit you're pushing that skimming == scummy?

How many times are you going to misrep this?

I'm pushing that claiming to have caught up without actually catching up is scummy

[u r a person 2]

How many times are you going to misrep this?

I'm pushing that claiming to have caught up without actually catching up is scummy

Oh, so skimming is not equivalent to catching up in your book.

I'm done with this conversation. If you think using this piece of your game as part of a read on you is scummy, vote me, but going around in circles with you is not enjoyable

[u r a person 2]

I'm done with this conversation. If you think using this piece of your game as part of a read on you is scummy, vote me, but going around in circles with you is not enjoyable

No no, go ahead and detail the entirety of your case on me.

I'll wait.

Already done, bb boy <3

here are the cliff notes

there's nothing in your iso outside of an average scum range

i think rc and shoshin are town

if shoshin isn't town, they probably aren't partners with S.

RC started scum reading me over wanting to vote you, so if he's scum, it's likely with you

the most likely scum team for which lynching you loses the game is {shoshin, RC} and I'd have to really believe that's the team before picking that fight. I don't.

you're probably scum

[u r a person 2]

What's your read on Sau, U2?

probably scum

none of this has changed significantly, it's just been adjusted with associations

[u r a person 2]

I take it that the summary of your case on me is simple PoE. Correct?

the summary of my case is the post you quoted.

Yes, it is heavily poe influenced.

This is a 5 player game, though, so it doesn't take much to build a poe.

[u r a person 2]

I'm waiting on RC.

same. what ya gonna do when he gets here?

[u r a person 2]

VOTE: Shoshin
this ends

hey, something is happening!

[u r a person 2]

And the annoying part is that while I couldn't post, I was pushed for "not posting", but while I'm finally here and posting and trying to engage, it's like talking to a brick wall in URAP's case, and Shoshin's outright ignoring me.

[u r a person 2]

im answering your questions, mate

But I can't help you squeeze blood from a stone

I've given you what i've got.

How do you feel about a shoshin lynch?

[u r a person 2]

I've never seen Saudade try this hard except as scum. He replaces out of most games when town.

wait wait wait

are you now saying your meta read is that if saudade stays in a game, he is probably scum?

[u r a person 2]

If I had to lynch right now she's a great bet, but I do want to make sure by seeing what she says. What do you think?

I'm not super opposed

but I also don't think RC is super opposed

so I'm concerned

[u r a person 2]

VOTE: michaelscott

I really do prefer this tho

[u r a person 2]

UNVOTE: I just click past pedits

[u r a person 2]

If your solve is MS+Saudade why would you be super opposed?
Unless you're townreading Saudade now?

I assume you mean why would I not be super opposed

and I think that's clear when remembering that my worldview also includes possibilities of {sho, MS} and {sho, RC}

[u r a person 2]

The game Shoshin and I are talking about Saudade replaced out of as scum

Shoshin is lying.

VOTE: michaelscott

I really do prefer this tho

Change your vote

tough to get past the pedits in this town

[u r a person 2]

If your worldview includes all of {Sho, MS}, {Sho, RC}, {MS, Sau}; why even vote and wagon now??

please don't try and simplify my understanding of the gamestate and reads. Yes, you can say it this way and make it out like I don't have any reads, but I've been clearer than that, and you know it.

[u r a person 2]

We can talk about Sho+RC.

okay, talk about it

[u r a person 2]

okieee

[u r a person 2]

jeez tbh i think that would be more likely from scum rc than town rc. town rc believes he's right

but it's nai there's no way he can't do that as either

[u r a person 2]

RC, one of these days you'll get good enough to find a town read on me.

lord knows the rest of the site has managed to do it. =/

VOTE: Michael Scott

[u r a person 2]

RC, one of these days you'll get good enough to find a town read on me.

lord knows the rest of the site has managed to do it. =/

VOTE: Michael Scott

the fuck is this why are you splitting the votes on a lynch like this

why not?

[u r a person 2]

okay. is this a white flag? call my bluff then

VOTE: saudade

[u r a person 2]

you won't

team is probably rc + saudade

[u r a person 2]

go for it dude

push my lynch

but then don't pretend to be able to read me next game

[u r a person 2]

u r a person 2 do you even have a pretend case on me

yes, I have a reason for all of my reads, multiple times in my iso, actually

though I voted you primarily to piss in RC's cereal

[u r a person 2]

im not sure if that's true enter, but i do prefer this

VOTE: michael scott

[u r a person 2]

I dont read him as anything
u2 needs to explain his very opportunistic vote there though

i was killing the bs theory that you and i are a scum team, primarily

[u r a person 2]

i do town read shoshin

[u r a person 2]

i think whatever the argument over this meta read, it's clear shoshin believes it. It's too easily debunked a set of claims at this point

[u r a person 2]

Hey urap if you're town unvote please

hey im town but no

[u r a person 2]

Urap post a solve for me that includes RC as town

ms + saud

is really where im at

[u r a person 2]

Urap post a solve for me that includes RC as town

ms + saud

is really where im at

But you just said its RC+ saude and you are trying to imply you are stronger read on MS

was this a trick question?

[u r a person 2]

if sau gets 2 votes ill hammer it npnp

[u r a person 2]

i think there is pretty much no world in which shoshin is scum

[u r a person 2]

98% chance town

[u r a person 2]

Also, Michael Scott has no posts in the game thread past 1099, which is when Saudade was at L-1.

well, he went to bed, right?

this is almost certainly nai

[u r a person 2]

If I'm scum with MS, I keep my vote on Sau until MS hammers him, not dismantle the wagon while waiting on RC to convince me on a different wagon.

you didn't dismantle the wagon, urap did.

no im pretty sure this is wrong. i unvoted after another vote switch i think

[u r a person 2]

Also, Michael Scott has no posts in the game thread past 1099, which is when Saudade was at L-1.

well, he went to bed, right?

this is almost certainly nai

that's my point

he wasn't there

im missing the point. eli5 plz

[u r a person 2]

rc who is scum if i am not

[u r a person 2]

oops you answered

[u r a person 2]

why shoshin + saud?

[u r a person 2]

so what you're really saying is it's me + shoshin or shoshin + saud?

[u r a person 2]

do you want me to vote saud again

[u r a person 2]

like this read doesn't seem realistic to me. why is MS town?

[u r a person 2]

maybe what

[u r a person 2]

VOTE: saud


okiedoke

[u r a person 2]

i know shoshin knows who you are. it's no secret that you push people hard. If you don't want that to happen every once in a while, why play with you to begin with

[u r a person 2]

so i didn't believe that a couple pages of you calling her scum would drive her out of a game

[u r a person 2]

it was faked ate regardless of her alignment. that post wasn't genuine. I could see it coming from either alignment, tho more often from scum.

[u r a person 2]

im saying she made that post as part of an effort to get you off of her back, and i can see that coming from either alignment's motivation, but i think scum probably resorts to it more often

[u r a person 2]

well, actually why am i speculating. RC, which alignment is more likely to threaten a replace out as a response to one of your pushes?

[u r a person 2]

I would assume town. I don't understand assuming otherwise.

I think situationally it's scum ate but by and large it's not, no? Isn't it a rather excessive at

Well for sure you would know better than I in this case.

Even more reason to lynch MS or saude

[u r a person 2]

why don't you drop the hammer and we can celebrate in post game?

[u r a person 2]

just trust me, RC

[u r a person 2]

In game like this, that's a real bummer, mate

[u r a person 2]

i'm shooting for a 70% town winrate and my inability to extract a town read for you is going to be a step backwards for me here, it seems

[u r a person 2]

from* you

[u r a person 2]

but that's not what I believe

in my heart of hearts, it's ms + saud