Mini 594 - Satin Doll Showdown - {GAME OVER}

[Glork]

Those two definitely stand as my scummiest right now with Elmo right next to Tarhalindur as well. Tarhalindur's reads look so fucking contrived it's ridiculous.

Tar's "contrived" reads are mostly focused on how Elmo has been insincere, yet you put Elmo at your #3. Could you please read through and elaborate on the Tar-Elmo relationship? How does TarScum affect Elmo's alignment? How does ElmoScum affect Tar's alignment?

[hasdgfas]

I'm vanilla; I'm gonna

vote hasdgfas

for obvious reasons. I'm not sure there's any point writing a longer post, but I'll do it anyway.

Obvious reasons? The only things you've said about me are with regards to 2 ridiculously small posts. Do you have any other reasons for suspecting me besides those 2 posts?

[Incognito]

Tar's "contrived" reads are mostly focused on how Elmo has been insincere, yet you put Elmo at your #3. Could you please read through and elaborate on the Tar-Elmo relationship? How does TarScum affect Elmo's alignment? How does ElmoScum affect Tar's alignment?

His reads and reasons for reading people certain ways just don't make much logical sense to me. He's listed me as scummy mainly because he considered my reasons for attacking you "mediocre" and cited that scum would want to off you right away. He listed Ether as neutral for not attacking very many people but, interestingly enough, Ether also attacked you pretty severely for reasons that had to have been considered even less than mediocre. Why is she not scummy then? Also, how in the world would Ether and you necessarily have to share the same alignment? Ether made it extremely clear that her opening vote on you was very serious and that she genuinely felt like you were role-fishing. His read of Patrick for Patrick's Post 280 being the "towniest post of the game" doesn't match with his reads of both Erg0 and me since he's listed the both of us as scummy while Patrick has come to an exact opposite conclusion. I do see what you're getting at with respect to Elmo though since Tarhalindur pretty much summarized the case against him but that certainly doesn't mean that they can't be scum with one another since a number of people have been making comments about Elmo's lack of contribution or complete lack of a sense of urgency for awhile now. That could have led Tarhalindur to come to the conclusion that people might swing their votes to Elmo eventually and that it might have been time to cut himself away from his damaged goods.

[Patrick]

Elmo's long gap before he actually posted I can easily see from Elmotown. He needed pressure before he stepped up, but that's not much of an issue.

He made some big long posts. First he threw out some gut reactinos to posts and asked pointed questions of seven other players. Lots of "whys" and "what are your reasons for" type of questions -- good scumhunting questions.

Three of the questions he asked in the first post were questions that had already been asked (and responded too in some way). I don't particularly see what's so great.

You yourself, Patrick, admit that your interest in Elmo is "sketchy and gut-based," but apparently it's good enough -- better than Cow, Tar, or myself. You temper it by saying you'd "hate to string [Elmo] up wrongly based on just a couple of posts and what could be just my imagination." I'm curious to know what changes between that and your actual vote.

None of that changed between saying it and voting. Believe it or not, I've been back and forth on which to vote alot lately. hasdgfas is the safer option; a claimed vanilla, with a few tangible things I don't like about his posts. Elmo's post reads exactly like pretty much all the long post he produced in my game where he was scum, and not like the ones he's made where I've seen him as town (newbie 499, Big Love, Open 54). There's a few other games I've looked at but can't discuss. His reasons to vote hasdgfas looked flimsy, and I don't have a clue who else he suspects from his posts. I don't even get why he held off voting hasdgfas so long, it's not like he's floated any other candidate.

I suspect nobody particularly agrees with the reason I'm voting for Elmo, but don't lump me in with people saying that his not posting quickly is scummy, or some such thing.

I've lost confidence in hasdgfas being scum a little. I think as scum he'd be more likely to have voted Elmo at some point, and I agree with his comment about you.

SSK has been more useless for far longer, and aside from a "Who's scum?" question from Patrick, he hasn't even gotten a mention out of anybody. I'm getting a free bye because I'm Glork and apparently I tend to do this D1 from time to time. Elmo's being run up due to a slow start failure to live up to expectations. It's bullshit.

I agree that the free pass type thing you've been given is bullshit. I don't particularly see MafiaSSK as comparable to Elmo, although I don't like how he's avoided the thread even after being asked to name suspects (he's been online, I'm fairly sure).

The fact that I can't articulate what I find scummy about Elmo as well as I'd like does not mean I have no reason to be voting him. I'm fairly sure you've pushed all kind of things in the past without being able to explain them well, so I don't see what you find so strange.

And now I have to go to eat. Won't be back before deadline.

[OhGodMyLife]

Final vote count of Day One

*Elmo* - 4 (Tarhalindur, PokerFace, Patrick, Erg0)
hasdgfas - 4 (Ether, Glork, scotmany12, Elmo)
Glork - 2 (Incognito, Mizzy)
Erg0 - 1 (MafiaSSK)
MafiaSSK - 1 (hasdgfas)

Not Voting - 0 ( )

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch
In the event of a tie, the person who received his or her last vote first will be lynched.

At deadline, four votes is enough.
Lynch scene to be added.

[OhGodMyLife]

End of Day One

The storm outside Satin Dolls intensifies as the evening wears on, but not as much as the discussion going on inside the club. Accusations are leveled, and the swell of majority opinion rises and falls against more than one of those present. In the end, the group consensus is split, with an equal number desiring retribution for Elmo and hasdgfas. But the Elmo camp acts faster, dragging him onto the stage for a serious reckoning. The whole club is ablaze with bloodlust, the people on the club floor calling out for death just as those upon the stage are about to enact mob justice, when a voice rings out above all the others and stops the proceedings.
"Get a hold of yourselves," says the commanding voice of the Satin Dolls respected (and feared) bouncer. Climbing up onto the stage, he pulls Elmo away from the impromptu lynch mob. "I won't stand for this violence tonight, it is my duty to put an end to this." Cowed and ashamed, the mob backs off. Several people climb back down from the stage. "You'd best take advantage of this reprieve, sir," the bouncer admonishes Elmo. "Your silence almost got you killed tonight. Think about that, and speak up in the future." With that, the bouncer ushers the emotionally and physically drained crowd out the door of the club, agreeing that all will return tomorrow.

---

The bouncer has prevented the lynch of Elmo, day one ends in a No Lynch.

It is now Night One. Day Two will start in 72 hours,

at 3:00 PM, Sunday June 1st

. If you have a night action, you have until that time to send it in.

[OhGodMyLife]

Day Two

The weather is still bleak, but not as bleak as whats being broadcast on the five o'clock news. It seems that a local small business owner was reported missing by his wife when he failed to come home from work at his usual time. It didn't take long for the police dive team to find his body, at the bottom of the Passaic River, with a pair of cement boots on.
"There are no clear suspects in this case," says the officer at the press conference, "but we believe this murder is related to local organized crime syndicate the Moretti family." The news plays footage of the divers pulling the body out of the river, eliciting a gasp from all those who were at the Satin Dolls Gentleman's Club the previous night for although the water has already distorted the body, he is easily recognizable.

---

Patrick -

Innocent Patron (Townie)

has been killed night one.

---

Day two begins now.

15th vote count

Not Voting - 11 (hasdgfas, PokerFace, Mizzy, Ether, Incognito, scotmany12, MafiaSSK, Tarhalindur, Erg0, Elmo, Glork)

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Current deadline: June 22nd, 3:00 PM EST

[Incognito]

Mod,

was the bouncer an NPC or an actual role in the game?

[scotmany12]

I have no idea what to make of the bouncer thing at this moment. I would like elmo to comment on it. Right now I am most suspicious of Tar and Hasgdfas

[Glork]

Scot is dead on.

I re-read overnight, and your scumgroup is Tarh, Cow, SSK.

Vote: Tarh

[Ether]

On the contrary, discussion of the bouncer should cease. (Actually, I'll note that "bouncer" is an occupation at a bar; depending on the nature of our scumgroup, it could guarantee that it's town.

Now

we're done.)

Glork, what do you think of hasdgfas's behavior toward Elmo?

[Glork]

EBWOP: Bouncer likely means "Governor," as in "one-shot lynch preventer." Somebody kept Elmo alive because they thought he was protown. I don't see what there is to be confused about.

[hasdgfas]

Scot is dead on.

I re-read overnight, and your scumgroup is Tarh, Cow, SSK.

Vote: Tarh

What brilliant reasoning behind this Glork. I always appreciate this sort of insight

[Glork]

What about Cow, Ether?

I assume you mean his failure to vote for Elmo. Elmo was already leading the race, so Hasdgfas didn't really need to pile his vote on. Nobody had indicated that they'd jump to Cow; Elmo was clearly going to "die" tonight.

[Glork]

And by "tonight" I mean "yesterday."

[Mizzy]

Glork, do you have any specific posts that point you to such a scumtrio?

I regret that I have such little reading on so many people. I need to do some thinking on the voting at the end of the day yesterday; maybe I'll be less of a fence-sitter.

In other news, I don't think Glork is scummy anymore, but I also don't think he's bored anymore either.

[Glork]

p much all of Tar's posts are p awful.

Lots of firespitting at Glork and Elmo for not contributing, when SSK has been at least as bad for longer.

Cow still feels like scum, but he's actually third on my list.

[Incognito]

EBWOP: Bouncer likely means "Governor," as in "one-shot lynch preventer." Somebody kept Elmo alive because they thought he was protown. I don't see what there is to be confused about.

This is most likely true. I just read up the role of Governor in the Wiki, and it seems to match the scenario that happened with Elmo. I was confused mainly because the mod didn't highlight the bouncer title in a bolded green or some other color thereby indicating some sort of alignment or that it was an actual role within this game. Instead the mod left the bouncer's title in his regular blue text color which might have indicated that it was an NPC.

I agree with Tarhalindur being scum for reasons that I've cited previously. I don't agree with the hasdgfas conclusion still though, and I also don't completely agree with the MafiaSSK conclusion either. He needs to pipe in a bit more. And Glork was at the top of my suspicions list yesterday so I'm still very leery of him. I'll go with this for now:

Vote: Tarhalindur

[Incognito]

P.S. It would be hilarious if this was a slip from SSK:

Okay then quick response to everything.
I find Ergo,Mizzy,Glork,Patrick to be protown. The rest I'm curious about especially Incognito.

do you have any sort of reasoning for this?

I re-read the thread and got those vibes from the protown people.

He didn't say "got those vibes from the people I think are protown"; he said "got those vibes from the protown people" which seems to imply additional knowledge of their alignment. So far we know it to be true of Patrick at least.

[OhGodMyLife]

Mod,

was the bouncer an NPC or an actual role in the game?

What NPCs there are affect this game in flavor only. The bouncer is not an NPC.

[Glork]

Incog, I think it meant "...from the people whom I listed as protown."

[scotmany12]

Vote: Tarh

I reread his case on elmo, and I don't see what the problem really is. I don't get what the problem is for asking questions; it is a part of scumhunting. His long post isn't jsut summary either, he does have some of his own opinions in it. And then, in relation to elmo's second long post, he says this:

and he suddenly claims to be "unmoved" by has's claim despite never showing any strong feelings about has previously.

This is not true. Elmo says that his deadline vote most likely goes to cow, and it isn't like he totally ignored cow when he made his first longer post.

Then I have problems with his other attacks...he attacks cow for pushing for an ssk lynch, when he also has ssk in his scumgroup. First he forgets to put cow in his analysis, and then he makes a bs reason to be suspicious of him. Right now I think they are scumbuddies together. Also, he attacks incog for attacking glork simply cause he is the player the scum would want dead. And I'm still not satisfied with his early vote on ergo.

I re-read overnight, and your scumgroup is Tarh, Cow, SSK.

I agree with you on cow and tar, but I'm still unsure about SSK. Until he actually provides something to this game I don't have a read on him.

[Glork]

Post 75 is a doozie, too. I'm going to play the MBL card and just say "see if you can spot what makes me cringe."

[Elmo]

Yeah, I can't see anything good coming from speculating about the bouncer right now.

Tarhalindur: To reiterate: To what extent do you rely on your Standard Tells vs. thinking on-the-fly? How frequently do you get significant mileage out of them as town? How do you (ab)use them when scum? You didn't answer this before, opting to attack me instead; why? Do you believe the IIoA tell applied to Patrick, given Mizzy's stance towards him yesterday?
Mizzy: Why were you 'not comfortable' with my lynch? What does that mean, exactly? If you weren't, why did you vote for someone who would not obviously get lynched at deadline, when cow was at four?
Erg0: What precisely in 306 is sufficient to cast a lynching vote? Why are you 'not sure that he's quite as obvscum as Tar would have us believe'? Why, precisely, would ElmoScum shy away from casting a lynching vote near deadline after I've

specifically stated

I would probably do so?
PokerFace: What of the bolded parts in 278 do not logically follow from cow's indicated posts? What precisely does 'not great own analysis' mean, here?
Ether: Why did you feel the need to announce that you did not oppose my wagon?

Hmm. I do think

vote Tarhalindur

is a good direction. I'm trying to account for OMGUS (I am

Not Happy

about my wagon) but I really do not see any game-specific reasoning in 239; it's more like he's picked a Standard Tell and then jumped on something he can paint as that. The way my wagon went, I'd be

amazed

if it were scum-free, so we'll start here; his behaviour is certainly indistinguishable from 'scum looking someplace to go', distinct from Patrick's meta of merely saying things that look wrong - I've now skimmed Farscape, and your play there is much more concentrated around things outside of your common tells. Also, your scumlist in 293 is actually extremely wishy-washy, apart from myself: MafiaSSK needs to say who he suspects (but there is no reasoning given why he is newbscum as opposed to newbtown), Incognito has been under your radar (and apparently this is

his

problem rather than yours), you have a

weak

scum read on Erg0 based on his 'unwillingness to come out and outright say that another player is scum' when

he's just voted you and called you his strongest suspect

, and scotmany is under your radar, and apparently scum for talking about 'lynch preferences' rather than scum. Last time I checked, we preferred to lynch people we thought were scum, so I can't see the distinction. Everyone else is neutral or townish. Precisely

what

strong conclusions do you draw about who the scum are in that post? What is the underlying difference between what is happening there and what you were criticising me for supposed to be?

I am suppressing the desire to make a big post. I think that's for the best. I would like all three people on my wagon yesterday to summarise why, and to state if they still want me lynched, and why.

[Mizzy]

Mizzy: Why were you 'not comfortable' with my lynch? What does that mean, exactly? If you weren't, why did you vote for someone who would not obviously get lynched at deadline, when cow was at four?

It seemed to me that you were being lynched for being "useless," i.e. inactive. I have always been and will always be a fan of getting someone replaced who is inactive as opposed to lynching them. Plus, you hadn't done anything I could read as too much town or scum so I felt (and still feel) that I don't really have a great read on you.

As to why I voted for someone who wasn't going to get lynched, I felt that I needed to place my vote where my opinion was (I'm trying to be a little less over-cautious) and I don't feel that someone needs to vote for the leading wagon(s) if they don't feel right doing so.