In post 1086, Vedith wrote:Okay I'm willing to listen.
I wanted to vote DEB today to see how they reacted. I can tell you it was very poorly though.
b4 that, what was your read on TLK at the very end of Day 1? The reason I feel less confident in townreading you is because of how biting your comments were towards TLK near twilight yet you seem to be hem-hawing on his alignment rn.
In post 962, The Last Knight wrote:If you or Wilky can prove that Wilky has done these things too, please do.
If I can prove he has done things?
What?
Wilkys posting looks town. If you actually read his ISO it looks like he's making progression on his reads which Scum just don't do, even more so day 1 as they don't want to be stuck with reads.
Voting in someone outside of your town pool doesn't mean it's Scum motivated.
I've swapped my votes plenty, why are you not putting the pressure on me for it?
In post 974, The Last Knight wrote:I'm also pretty eager to end the day. So I put him at L-1. If he's a vig, that's a big blow. But plenty of people tried not to get killed. If he was something we didn't want to lose, I wish he said something sooner.
15mins between the last 2 votes and no intent or posting to even try and get this.
If Wilky is a town PR don't go blaming this on Wilky.
And how the fuck can you use Wilky being eager to end the day and then say this?
Like I do not see the above posts coming from someone that just said "TLK I'm not sure" and wants a case from me.
I want Chara URA and Flippy to weigh in on this.
In post 1041, Shiidaji wrote:after Scept and Flippy did. I assumed this was during Chara's catch-up, which meant Chara was keeping up with the thread and trying to "fit in" with what's going on currently instead of focusing on their re-read to discern scum. That feels self-conscious to me.
i always keep up with the thread while catching up. if players are online and posting i'll have one tab to keep an eye on that and the other to keep reading, because reading is boring.
and yes, i wanted to get a word in on the Flavor joke.
Yeah tbh I get it, the more I interact with you the more I think it isn't indicative anymore since I see you pepper non-game related posts here and there anyway. My reread makes me feel better about you Chara! How nice! I also agree with URA's reasons for liking you in 1074 which made me like URA more though I disagree with your Wilkis being suspicious, especially if the two wagon choices of D1 (Flippy Burk) are town.
Speaking of which, much like Chara I didn't like the wagon forming on Flippy on a reread. We really need Flippy to post where his head is at right now. I am still trying to decide where I'm at with Burk. For reading Burk I'm likely gonna go back to whoever pointed out a "drop in character" because I think that's the way to go for reading a shifty thot like him.
MY MAIN ISSUE WITH TLK TOWNIES PAY ATTENTION XOXOXOXOXO :::HEART:::
First, start with post 1128. This is TLK's response to D2 pressure, it's a decent response tonally. My scumread still lies with his justification of a Wilkis vote D1. Follow along as I explain!!!
In 1128 TLK just said that he needed to do a Wilky read to see how he felt about Wilky before voting, see underlined:
In post 1085, Shiidaji wrote:deb yeehaw'ing onto the hammer honestly felt expected/in-character to me
tlk dropping the thing that was on his mind (putting together a URA case) to just suddenly convince himself that wilkis is a good vote and throw together a lame case did not feel expected/in-character to me
ill put together my tlk thoughts tn my people need me
Okay that is a fair point. I was looking into doing a urap2 read
and saw I needed to do a Wilky read
. I knew Wilky's iso was significantly shorter, so I went there first. Put down a vote. And then the day ended 10 minutes later. I never had a chance to do a urap2 iso. I still intend to but have not bothered to yet, seeing as I have more pressing matters in this thread to address (e.g. Flips, Nips, and clever quips). But I do not deny a very sudden mental shift in my posts that did not get explained well. I hope that clears it up for you.
Let's go back then. TLK ISO'd and voted Wilky on
March 15th
.
Spoiler: March 15th
In post 950, The Last Knight wrote:I'll also take another look at Wilky since there's a wagon, but I don't think he's scum. Any posts I should look at?
In post 959, The Last Knight wrote:
The bold part: why is he so insistent (multiple posts make this point) on point out that sometimes new players make new mistakes if they're scum? It could be the case, but Burke plays mafia plenty and was asking technical questions. Anything else is as likely a ploy as it is scum. The debate on Burke is definitely convincing but I want to see it out. He can come across as scummy to me and still be town.
In post 756, wilky wrote:Right I'll L-2 this it's within my lynch pool anyway
VOTE: Flippynips
Seems eager to end day by wagoning. Not an inherently scummy trait but Wilky never seemed to show Nips much attention before this.
Once again a wagon. But it feels desperate more so than actual scum reading. He has shown interest in Burke before and, yeah, it seems the Icy Nips wagon is no more, but ultimately Wilky is just following the group.
Wilky makes no comments on why he isn't scum. I'd like to see some sort of defense made by Wilky against everyone's accusations. I just see no real intentions behind Wilky's actions. They seem so hallow, like Wilky is ebbing with the flow of the group. Nothing more. Trying to convince us that he is of a like mind. Wilky even used such terms when u r a person 2 found they were mind-melding. That is probably just a wolf pouncing on a sheep who has fallen for the wool pulled over its eyes.
So let's all put on our thinking caps and break this timeline down::::::
(Post 785 March 14, 05 PM) TLK ISO's Wilky, TLK thinks Wilky is town
(Post 950 March 15, 12 PM) TLK will take another look at Wilky, but he still thinks Wilky is town
(Post 959 March 15, 01 PM) TLK makes a big vote post for Wilky
Inbetween 785 and 950, there were
ZERO WILKIS POSTS
. What does that mean? That means that
the Wilkis ISO had not changed at ALL
ever since his first read through the day prior. There were however,
four votes for Wilkis
inbetween 785 and 950. Remember, I replaced in at that time. URA even voted for Wilkis in-between 950 and 959, making it five votes.
Conclusion
TLK fabricated his Wilkis scumread as an opportunistic vote when he noticed the town flow pushing towards a Wilkis lynch.
It's completely possible for your read on a player to shift over time. Flavor Leaf did on L8. It is however absurd to imagine that TLK thought Wilky was Town, then on a re-read confidently proclaimed Wilky as scum,
with no new Wilkis posts to help change his mind
.
Finally we'll take a look at his vote post in a second so I can talk about why it's scummy.
I didn’t say the word both, i just said both of the statements because I meant both statements. I clarified and went deeper into it.
And I’m the epitome of a reactive/reaction test player. I pounce when I have something I want to pounce on. What do you mean you expect better? This is how I’ve caught many a scum back in the day because I gather my thoughts, then spew it out when it’s time.
At the moment, I don’t have a big grasp on the game. That should make sense to you as my 2 main scum reads from day 1, one is flipped, one is now a higher town read for me, so i feel like you should understand my spot. I also didn’t see Creature as scum. So my reads this game need work. I’m in a re-evaluation phase right now.
In post 498, Scepticism wrote:Posts are short and lack oomph. There are more guilty of that of course, but wilky gives me the worst gut sensation so far.
Probably worth mentioning that a lot of the posts were made in a jam session where a fair few of us were all on at the same time.
He’s not worth it right now he can get sorted later. I don’t like that he’s not answering my question but posting but it’s fine he can die D2
I don’t know dude, there’s no one else that gets a strong scum reading from most the people in this game. I really feel he should be the D1 lynch, if we’re wrong then we can deal with that later.
In post 170, wilky wrote:Burk on the other hand is almost conf scum to me already for the slips of knowledge whilst trying to pull the newbie card.
Can you please go into further detail on what slips you were referencing, even if you no longer hold this read?
Just meant that he was trying to pull off a doesn't understand what's going on persona early in game but his posts between that clearly showed that he did.
L8 has won me over now, he's town. Burke is still scum, DEB is town.
Unsure on the replacements and leaning more scum on Creature.
The bold part: why is he so insistent (multiple posts make this point) on point out that sometimes new players make new mistakes if they're scum? It could be the case, but Burke plays mafia plenty and was asking technical questions. Anything else is as likely a ploy as it is scum. The debate on Burke is definitely convincing but I want to see it out. He can come across as scummy to me and still be town.
In post 756, wilky wrote:Right I'll L-2 this it's within my lynch pool anyway
VOTE: Flippynips
Seems eager to end day by wagoning. Not an inherently scummy trait but Wilky never seemed to show Nips much attention before this.
Once again a wagon. But it feels desperate more so than actual scum reading. He has shown interest in Burke before and, yeah, it seems the Icy Nips wagon is no more, but ultimately Wilky is just following the group.
Wilky makes no comments on why he isn't scum. I'd like to see some sort of defense made by Wilky against everyone's accusations. I just see no real intentions behind Wilky's actions. They seem so hallow, like Wilky is ebbing with the flow of the group. Nothing more. Trying to convince us that he is of a like mind. Wilky even used such terms when u r a person 2 found they were mind-melding. That is probably just a wolf pouncing on a sheep who has fallen for the wool pulled over its eyes.
I'll vote there.
VOTE: Wilky
TLK feels like self-conscious scum to me here and I will try to explain why. Despite originally townreading Wilky's ISO, then scumreading that same ISO now, TLK makes no mention of what changed his mind in the first place. What he liked before that he didn't like now. Instead, he makes incisive comments that have not been mentioned before in what feels like an effort to be original.
Also, after TLK typed "wool over its eyes.", he thought it necessary to press enter, type "I'll vote there.", press enter AGAIN, and then vote Wilky. This doesn't feel like the TLK I was introduced to at the beginning of the game, it's self-conscious. I have personally found some newbie scum to be afraid of just outright sheeping or naked voting, especially those that have not established a "Creature"-like sense of quick posting. To them, it would seem out of character to just quick vote. Thus they overcompensate with posts like this.
You got a firm read out of John Marv's three one-liners, the longest of which is four words? Pull the other one. It has bells on. This is nothing but a post-hoc excuse for scum-slip.
Your actions today don't match your words. You think TLK and Leaf are scum, but while you're tunnelling Leaf you're voting TLK. This smacks of insincerity and distancing.
I did! I like using a player's first few posts as indicators of alignment, especially on D1. It shows their mentality before they've settled into their role in the town. It's not an excuse, but I can see why you don't like it because of the type of player you seem to be.
My words are a direct result of my actions I've already explained that TLK is much easier to pressure than FL! As a newbie yourself you must see the logic in this. He had made a post right before I voted him, so I wanted an immediate, not premeditated, reaction to my vote. FL was online to talk instead though so I talked with him. The fact that TLK responds to me slower and less frequently may have influenced your idea of who I was focusing on. If you have any more questions or comments for me I'd love to talk to you to convince you that I'm town, once you realize this we're going to be a lot stronger!!
In post 1162, Flavor Leaf wrote:I didn’t say the word both, i just said both of the statements because I meant both statements. I clarified and went deeper into it.
And I’m the epitome of a reactive/reaction test player. I pounce when I have something I want to pounce on. What do you mean you expect better? This is how I’ve caught many a scum back in the day because I gather my thoughts, then spew it out when it’s time.
At the moment, I don’t have a big grasp on the game. That should make sense to you as my 2 main scum reads from day 1, one is flipped, one is now a higher town read for me, so i feel like you should understand my spot. I also didn’t see Creature as scum. So my reads this game need work. I’m in a re-evaluation phase right now.
Alrightyyy, I get the feeling I'm focusing too much on you anyway. This may just be a result of us both being on at the same time often. I see what you mean about your reads leaving you a little lost, especially since your town reads are stronger than your scum reads. I will happily revisit you later once you pounce!!!
In the meantime while you're here u should like vote for me or insomnia or (hint hint) comment on what I just posted about TLK, and agree or disagree with it!
Ah and as for what I mean by expect better, from the town game I read of you, you were much more forward with voting and pressuring, even when your reads were shifting. Take for example when your suspicion of Economics bat was lifted in 1918
I didn’t like his shade on Xtoxm, and the way he avoided talking about the hot topics.
I thought he was potentially trying to get pressure off of Economics, but I think Economics is town.
The other scum is probably on the Economics wagon.
Inbetween the first and second quotes, Economics changed your mind. The second and third quotes were like 10 hrs apart, and that was you immediately voting for your next suspect once you cleared Economics in your mind. I hope that answers your question, that's my frame of reference for your pressuring style. Not this "pouncing" you're saying lmao
In the meantime while you're here u should like vote for me or insomnia or (hint hint) comment on what I just posted about TLK, and agree or disagree with it!
In post 1144, Flavor Leaf wrote:I just don’t think he’s scum. There’s probably scum within the people saying it was a bad hammer when the wagon went super fast.
I think I'm happy enough with this as town you to go with it.
i'm developing such a headache but i think Shii's case is good. huzzah. also haven't given the Vedith thing the time it deserves but i haven't found him very towny so far.
please poke me on this later if i forget.
"Sibling," Farkran asked, starting slowly.
"The CORE is full of lasers, and Chemist1422's entire existence depends on her eye. If she looks into a laser, she will almost certainly die. Did you think about that?"
"Oh yes, my brother. I love thinking about that."
![:]](./images/smilies/icon_smiling.png "Cheerful Smile"){kind=icon}
I've already explained that TLK is much easier to pressure than FL! As a newbie yourself you must see the logic in this. He had made a post right before I voted him, so I wanted an immediate, not premeditated, reaction to my vote. FL was online to talk instead though so I talked with him. The fact that TLK responds to me slower and less frequently may have influenced your idea of who I was focusing on. If you have any more questions or comments for me I'd love to talk to you to convince you that I'm town, once you realize this we're going to be a lot stronger!!
