Mini Normal 2067: Musicals [Endgame]

[Vorkuta]

Hi Smart & Hi Enigma- sorry for last game
I'll make up for it though.

Let's start by
VOTE: Something_Smart

[Vorkuta]

VOTE: cbynumber
You don't play a lot of Ascension do you?

Also I TR SSmart

[Vorkuta]

as is always my luck I come across scummy af when I’m town and vice verse

This type of AtE always pokes at me, and seeing as I have nothing else to go on but arbitrary scum points:
VOTE: Baezu

[Vorkuta]

My two cents:
RCEnigma and SSmart are both doing what they did last game w/ me so townpoints.
Ausuka and Umlaut are trying to solve

and are explaining the game to me

- townpoints galore

cynumber is a filthy casual

I don't know how I feel about self-votes during RVS especially from players I've never seen before, so I have nothing to say about that.

And uhh.... yeah that's it for me

[Vorkuta]

I wasn't even in that game at the beginning, what are you talking about?

The line of thinking/questioning feels slightly similar, and I don't see any 180 personality shifts?

[Vorkuta]

With RCEnigma- my first game (ever on site ) with him was where he more or less lurked as scum and got caught early on.

He also faked a PR and self-voted

Town RCE in the previous game just now

had no selfvoting

felt more solvey and much less vendetta/agenda driven.
This game's RCE reads more solvey and less agenda driven.

As for S_Smart, I feel bad about shooting him and losing the game regardless of how much his posts ping me.
His posts slightly ping me this game as well.

[Vorkuta]

if you read my wiki

I'm conflicted.
On one hand this "appeal to my wiki" is ridiculous, especially since the last game mentioned was in 2014.
Has your playstyle not changed/advanced/evolved since then?
Plus anyone can write whatever they want; The flavor text below your name says "Mafia Scum"- it must be true then /s

On the other hand, my 'AtE as a scum tell' has only a 50/50 success rate in my previous games

[Vorkuta]

not like this Hi """morality"""

[Vorkuta]

Are you conf!town yet? Or will it take like 5 more posts until you reach that conclusion?

[Vorkuta]

His replace-in can change role PMs

[Vorkuta]

they low key hate me right now

Are there 4 scum in this game as well?
I read your PT. That's all I'm going to say for now.

Did I IC that RCE game?

Yeah that's the one.

[Vorkuta]

113 and 120 are why my vote remains on vorkuta, but more on that later.

cynumber is a filthy casual

I take that back if you've 112%'d hollow knight

[Vorkuta]

What about S_Smarts posts ping you?

I don't like appeals like this (and he's actually trying to sell it)

I'm very easy to read if you know what you're looking for.

I have a hard time faking that as scum.

I really don't like people trying to get points by downplaying their abilities- it comes off as "insurancey" for the future as in "oh tehee, sorry my reads were bad- it's just not my day today".

I am definitely not on top of my game today

plus past trauma from the previous game

[Vorkuta]

That's partially why I'm not voting the guy, because I believe that other people (who've played with him and can verify) would protest if he were lying.

I don't think I'm going to read through the last ~20 games of a person to determine the validity of their self-meta argument.
Especially seeing as at the end of the day it'll STILL be up to my interpretation.

[Vorkuta]

By itself- it would.

However I just came from a game with him where I vig-shot him for basically the same thing (and more) which lost us the game, so that's kind of fresh.....

[Vorkuta]

Boats did as well and I was pocketed hard by him.
S_Smart wouldve been on my kill list regardless of the claim (and that claim was very very last minute)
I'll try and stop bringing the game up though.

Anyway- there are people who's town playstyles ping me really hard in the absence of personal experience playing with them (like the defense Baizu is making) and that causes me to lose games/not be useful because my core!town block sucks. So now, I'd like to think I """learned""" S_Smart's town play, and all those points that ping me are turned onto town points

also because recency bias

.

[Vorkuta]

I mean also my point is that I kind of have to stop scum reading people for really poor/personal reasons, and if anything 'scum probably isn't this bad' should be my go-to reaction when people do/say stuff I don't like.

However this would undermine my Baezu read so as I said previously- I'm conflicted.

[Vorkuta]

I don't see the word cologne in that reply

[Vorkuta]

Ok- from now on, I will not reply to or provide commentary on anything that doesn't have "Vorkuta" in it. /s

I can understand the reasoning, but I disagree with it.
What's the harm in having 2 or more people answer the same question? Scum can probably generate filler content in better ways.
Plus its been done before this game: #139 as a completely stupid and surface level example.

[Vorkuta]

but again not too much meat in his posts

I'd love to provide something useful, but I was recently kindly told that my reads don't mean jack shit and that I'd be unable to catch good scum so....

Also did I make siv leave? I'm sorry- I just disagreed with a point that was made

[Vorkuta]

inb4 Boon's cologne gambit is just a build up to a smell joke/pun

[Vorkuta]

can you kindly stop being a shy guy and play?

>Insert appeal to Mondays

I was around literally all day yesterday but noone was posting

Anyway-

quality

content incoming.

[Vorkuta]

This sort of post is an AtE disguised as a post with content.

I disagree- it's one of my major personal gut scum pings.

As I mentioned with

it comes off as "insurancey" for the future as in "oh tehee, sorry my reads were bad- it's just not my day today".

I also/equally really dislike "Oh woe is me, everyone scum reads me" and pretty much automatically vote anyone who pulls this stuff.
It's a move that has very little counter play, probably verifiable but can be overabused, and is among one of the cheapest ways to shrug off suspicion.

The reason I haven't moved my vote off is due to a really bad 'appeal to wiki' follow up, more scummy pings in her posts, and defeatism (gambit).

[Vorkuta]

So you were just lurking admittedly.

??

Are we really going into dates/time stamps?
No one was posting after

I made siv leave

the end of 3/31 so idk what there was to say, and I've been catching up on mobile every now and then.
Now I'm ready to insert my 2 cents here and there

[Vorkuta]

Regardless of how much I disagree'd with Siv's reasoning/points, I don't actually think they were scum per say. I saw "effort" and gamesolvey gears in motion.

I'm sorry if this sounds condescending

, so this coupled with slaxx's towney arrival = town points.

I'm also trying to process whether I accept ausuka's #289 "2 scum-game" conjecture or not.
My recent experience is making me want to reject this (for fairly obvious reasons) unless this is coming from an "informed" slot (in which case- why wait for ~15 pages instead of opening with it), but then I'm left with "what do I do with this player that I disagree with", which is the state I'm in with a third of the cast here.

FL is beginning to do FL stuff and already laying the groundwork for it being """experimental""" and I don't like it. Also I see what I perceive to be scum theater going on, but honestly I

dejectedly

think I'm better off using a random number generator to get a read on FL and should stick to that no matter what.

[Vorkuta]

and play?

I'm still in the process of deciding how best to proceed and what works/doesn't.

I still don't know you (plural) and your personalities/tells so idk what to go on.
I don't know whether I should put more focus on building my core!town block (which is bad and will get infiltrated) or developing my scum suspicions (which are also bad and will result in mislynches).
I'm also deciding how to handle posts/points I fundamentally disagree with- arguing and contesting everything probably won't be helpful in the long run so I just let things slide while they get points relative to what I perceive their intentions with said post are to be.
And everyone I agree with is 1000!% town /s

[Vorkuta]

So you were just lurking admittedly.

*crickets chirping*
Yep looks I'm just active at different times

[Vorkuta]

Real-time interaction would be nice....

[Vorkuta]

what stuff?

If I knew, I would stop trembling in fear.

This is simple baseless conjecture about setup.

That's great and all, but it resulted in quite a few townreads for ausuka.
Like this is the "gateway post" through which all of her posts are going to be filtered from/reference to and will consist of 70% of my read on her, and I'm not entirely sure how to process it.

Also quick revision- the only way I would see a 2 scum setup working (unless someone can throw me a link to one) is with third party roles.

[Vorkuta]

Do you think its reasonable

Please tell me you're addressing this question to a player with MORE than 3 normal games under his belt. (of which 2 apparently had BS setups that people did not agree with)

[Vorkuta]

Vork, can I get some kind of reads from you? Do you have any particular town/scum reads?

I threw out town points to RCE, S_S, and Slaxx.
You can see me disliking Baezu's posts here and there

Other people I legit don't know how to approach.

Please lets lynch FL

[Vorkuta]

Because he's a bully, and I should've shot him last game

On a serious note, I don't think I can "counterplay" FL regardless of what he does, so at the end of the day I can only hope and pray he's town.
It's like he's on the complete opposite end of the spectrum as a lurker is- a lurking playstyle has little counterplay because.... there are no posts to... do anything with. Whereas whatever FL says is going to be a gambit/reaction test/experiment/whathaveyou and this is valid for both scum!FL and town!FL.

Couple this with recency bias and a bit of humor

I’ve already been conftown for 2 posts.

He's been confscum since 133

[Vorkuta]

Wow it's almost as if you've read his posts

Well, damn.

Let’s just lynch me Day 3.

Ignore the contentless crap

If I were to be extremely analytical/anti-FL agenda driven, I could make the argument that he hasn't produced any substance this entire game, with the exception of 'unpopular opinion baezu town".

Everything else has been 'oh hi guys', 'hi slaxx', 'hey last game was fun', and 'cologne'

Obviously the guy is going to pick up steam sooner or later but yeah.

[Vorkuta]

then who should I vote for?

Personally

I've been proven wrong but anyway

I'm completely bamboozled everytime scum gets caught on D1, and don't see how that's possible. My

next level and game winning

strategy that is to prevent lurkers/lylo liabilities from getting through

as that is all my surface level play can pull off

just 'being' here.

-Prolly a timezone/schedule issue as I couldn't interact one-on-one with people like usual.
-I'm kind of like that in most games?

appeal to self-meta

-I also have difficulties approaching this game as I've said before: what to do with people who ping me or who make points with which I disagree?
-If I'm honest/mean/critical, I could probably take the 2~3 lowest posting players and say that about them as well (like I did about FL).
-ouch

[Vorkuta]

just 'being' here

Also I think I made siv leave so....

[Vorkuta]

All I'm saying is that I saw Siv making a point, I disagreed with it quite harshly in #220, and then no more Siv.
Can't help feeling slightly like "straw that broke camel's back"

Also something something, no speculating about replacement reasons?

[Vorkuta]

As for Fus's comment:

Are they 'maybe scum would do this' or 'this seems really odd and out of character'?

I don't exactly know your characters/personalities. I was actually thinking of making an early request to get people to describe their own town/scum playstyles in the hopes that

people would actually do it

I'd get some insight and other players could verify/police the claims.
I have my own personal thoughts about how I think town/scum should be played, and when I see a discrepancy that's a ping.
However hasn't worked very well in

any

my past games,

So I'm thinking I try """learning""" and to find a way to not "lose/fuck up in the same way twice", but I'm still slightly confused about what concrete steps I take this game to get there. Also as for

Who pings you? You wont get answers if you dont ask.

With this player roster, I'm pretty sure any questions/pressure I can generate could very simply be swatted away.

case in point: FL what is cologne?

Also I really don't like tunneling players- I've tried it in a newbie game and I didn't get a feeling of pride and accomplishment, or any results.

[Vorkuta]

I don’t remember losing

THIS GUY

Do you kind of see why I tongue-in-cheek want him lynched?

[Vorkuta]

*pokes thread with stick*

Guys I'm slightly scared that we'll end up with a deadline lynch at this rate of activity.
There hasn't really been a wagon on anyone but Baezu so far

and S_Smart RVS stage

[Vorkuta]

And then you made a readlist in #384, so work your way backwards from there.

How about the rest of the cast? I'd like more votes to look at.

[Vorkuta]

Do you have an issue with the Baezu wagon?

It's not so much an issue but I don't like how there aren't any alternatives.
Like we're corralled into this vote, yet no one is coming up with an equally good counter wagon that I can get behind.

I don't want to use the word "smoothly" but it's going too differently from my previous game experiences if that makes sense.
Oh ok as I'm writing this, these are the sentences that sum up my problem the best:

This is the '''fastest''' I've seen

in my great and vast experience on this site

someone be so reviled by, and I'm uncomfortable with
-the lack of counter wagon
-the "little" that is done to bail her out (I see the RCE and FL suggesting 'not scum timelines', but they feel half-hearted)
-my personal "Scum can't be this bad" rule.

It just feels like people have come to "eh- good enough", and are going to miss out on more potential stuff.
My 2 cents

[Vorkuta]

Can someone spoon feed me what an 11/12 confirmation means

yes I can count to 11

, and why it matters, what even is the big deal, and why not 10/12?

This is just the second time I've seen something that I feel is "trivial" about a setup spec being brought up.

you're welcome for the page top

[Vorkuta]

to ensure that at least one scum has confirmed before the game starts

Damn I've never actually noticed that.... but why?

inb4 site meta

And is there a precedent for a 10:2 normal game setup?

I give the mod the page top and he rewards me with an extra vote. I see how it is.

[Vorkuta]

Less impressed with empty and prodgy umlaut content.

Kind of busy today and likely tomorrow, consider this a pre-emptive prodge.

I mean the guy said 'IRL stuff- sorry'

[Vorkuta]

Also I just remembered how to read

[1] Something_Smart : Something_Smart 7

For real? STILL? I think we're kind of past the point where it was RVS and funny.

[Vorkuta]

Oh I too remembered how to read

If we're doing this and bullying the mod

@mod- Alchemist21 doesn't have a space in their name

That's what you get for giving me an extra vote

[Vorkuta]

Can we get a tally of how many people have accepted ausuka's '2 scum premise'?
Like if I'm going to try and dig through people by what their reads on baezu are, I'd

naively

think that

-in a 2 scum setup, I'd think that remaining scum can't afford a scum!Baezu lynch= not on the wagon
-in a 3 scum setup, scum has some leeway so my guess is 1 scum on the wagon, 1 off.

Then baezu threw out

Yes there are definitely two scum on my wagon

Is that 2/2 or 2/3?

So I would like to know the setup spec (or rather what we think the setup is) before even trying to speculate.

[Vorkuta]

Is it bad that I can see an RCE/FL scum pair? (+1 if setup?)

As i've said before

If I were to be extremely analytical/anti-FL agenda driven, I could make the argument that he hasn't produced any substance this entire game, with the exception of 'unpopular opinion baezu town".

Everything else has been 'oh hi guys', 'hi slaxx', 'hey last game was fun', and 'cologne'

and RCE is piggybacking on

my

the paranoia by claiming to eventually be the divine answer to the 'how to deal with FL' problem, by divulging FL-related experience expertise (that ironically enough, FL might've handed to him in the first place)

[Vorkuta]

Because honestly the scum team would be doing a terrible job of it were me and one of you

I buy "too bad to be scum" actually.

So I think what I'm getting at with my previous posts and this is:

REGARDLESS of how BS/how much I disagree/how scummy Baezu pings me, I'm worried that this is lynchbait and actually good!scum

TM

is doing work.

I'm also deciding whether there's one or both in FL & RCE, but that's what I want to focus on AFTER the slots with little content make their catchup posts.

[Vorkuta]

It's bad that you guys keep doing preflip associatives

I'm trying to spot scum theater as it's what I fell victim to in my recent games.

[Vorkuta]

Dunno how j feel about this

-we have a notoriously good player that will screw up our game if he's scum
-scum!RCE: Fear not mere mortals! Just let me get to D3, then I will solve this problem!
-rest of town: believes in this
-scum!RCE: survives to D3
-scum!RCE: says literally anything
????
-Profit

I can see this playing out.

Which would mean that I can drop the FL association and try and read into RCE more.

[Vorkuta]

But you see my reasoning and why I think it's a winning scum play to earn town points by being able to deal with a really confusing slot yes?

I do like the deity comparisons though

If anything, this slight scumread is based on my

fear and despair

idea that FL physically can't be read, and anyone who claims to be able to do so is a liar.

[Vorkuta]

Tchill says that if I haven’t caught scum by the end of the game, lynch me because I’m scum.

I accept this.

So coupling this with my """defeatism""" of "if FL is scum then we lost and there's nothing I can do", I TR FL.

sense of dejavu intensifies

FL's town read of baezu, plus the "2scum2Bscum" argument makes me drop the SR on baezu.

UNVOTE: Baezu

Now looking at the Baezu wagon: (did anyone unvote off btw?)

[5] Baezu : Alchemist21 107 Vorkuta 112, HitAlt 122, Ausuka 168, Slaxx 424

Can someone please answer

Can we get a tally of how many people have accepted ausuka's '2 scum premise'?

[Vorkuta]

mechanically made myself town

That phrase doesn't sound like it should be possible in my head.

[Vorkuta]

So far I have

Against: Slaxx (but TR's ausuka for bringing it up)
For: Ausuka (it's her premise) and Baezu

So please kindly explicitly clarify because I've seen some people bring it up, but I have no idea whether they were throwing something out or actually believe in it.

[Vorkuta]

Haha. You should join my next BooneyToonz game.

prein me

Also I'm scared to ask Mr. "I’m an informed Miller who knows there isn’t any Loyal modifiers and there is a total of 4 scum. -Morality"

performer's sig btw

But how many scum are in this game?

[Vorkuta]

and then they killed you. That’s good

phrasing

As I also said that game
"stop pocketing me REEEEEE"

[Vorkuta]

Why haven't you begun one then? If you don't have reads, couldn't you try to ISO-dive people and see if you can get reads out of that? At least can you tell me why 420 is wrong? Same sentiment to SS.

I did ISO dive people and I can dig up stuff that I disagree with, but I lack the confidence to turn that into a solid scum read on someone, much less enough to start a wagon on somebody. But on of the the main issues is:

I feel like this is the wrong way around? There's no way to be certain on d1 whether we have 2 or 3 scum; we can speculate but we can't be confident enough that we base our game off of it. If you get a solid scumread it doesn't matter if there are 2 or 3 scum, they're likely scum anyway, right?

I know I was kind of the one who brought it up so it might be my fault but I feel like this 2/3 scum thing is becoming a big distraction.

Like- I would be looking for COMPLETELY different things depending on whether there are 2 or 3 scum.

[Vorkuta]

So I forget anything I have that might be setup related and go for things that ping me by themselves?

Ayt I might have something in that case

[Vorkuta]

I don't want to speculate on inactivity reasons, but are we all just waiting for volx/umlaut to reignite the game or something?

[Vorkuta]

Ok- I'd like to propose a Fus wagon.
***insert disclaimer that my reads are bad and I'm not confident, but here's what I have so far.

The ISO dive shows a player that is full of filler content, anti-town in letting people get their core!town blocks up and running, and fence-sitting by trying to get others to do their dirty work for him.

-Early self vote and then discussion/dismissing/disregarding said self vote is suspicious: "Oh I self voted to spark discussion.... nvm this self vote talk is filler"
-Engages the inactive newbie (yours truly) and throws questions that serve no purpose my way that A: earn him townpoints "oh look, he's engaging people to talk" and B: earn him posts so he doesn't look like a lurker
-Claims to be a 'shitposter' which I view as insurance ahead of time for "oh my posts are bad? lawl I was just jking around"

Ignore the contentless crap and go gut him when he doesnt engage.

You wont get answers if you dont ask. Or maybe you want somebody else to ask for you? Thats a possible strategy, but not a good way to be townread or play day1.

This is really huge irony (or contrast between actions and words) IMHO, and on re-reading it a few times it almost sounds like LMAIST "humble bragging" about his own scum!fus strategy. i.e- "no one will suspect me if I tell people what I'm doing"

In addition to this analysis, he also scored a few "personal" gut scum points with me that I probably won't be able to use to convince you, but just personally ping me.

So VOTE: Fuscosco for the above, to provide a counter wagon for Baezu, and hopefully to jumpstart this game back into action.

[Vorkuta]

or..... we can hear Slaxx out.

[Vorkuta]

Nah I'll just counterclaim it.

"I claim either ascetic or miller, only one of these is true"

Boon

FL

Morality

Also cool, people are writing stuff.

[Vorkuta]

since the scum didn't feel like bussing (?) the wagon never went all the way through.

I'm not convinced with the argument.
I mean that should apply to me as well; I was the second person on the wagon and then unvoted off.

Or are you trying to look at the people who BOTH
-Never defended Bae
-Never voted for Bae
To try and guess who scum might be from that?

I thought of doing so, but then I got

shit on

strongly advised not to look at "pre-flip associations"

[Vorkuta]

My name is Vedith and I don't know any player here.

(Image Spoiler)

Spoiler:

[Vorkuta]

Liked Vorkuta early but he's playing at this ate game that I don't really recall from his town games.

I beg to differ
-I relied much more heavily on 'gut' in my previous games, so now I'm trying to be more analytical about things
-Technically I 'did nothing but exist' in my previous games so I'm not sure where you got the baseline comparison from

Where are my AtEs at though?

[Vorkuta]

And I try to reignite the game with a Fus push, but I feel like no one else is addressing/acknowledging a scum!Fus probability.
We need a wagon and alternative that satisfies everyone BEFORE the deadline.

Can we like... productive activity anytime soon please?

[Vorkuta]

I just feel like you've been pushing this idea that the big bad bullies are pushing you around and that's why your reads are being ignored. I view you as a pretty intelligent player and don't think it suits your town game to act in that way.

My intent there was to
-Try and get town to wake up and stop being complacent as there could be ~12 hours at a time without a single post
-Actually TALK ABOUT

my

reads and not fill the thread with fluff.

Sure I might've used colorful language to get my point across and to promote urgency but I'm pretty sure it suits Town's best interest.
Without talk like this, we'll just do nothing and eventually *shrug* and lynch Baezu when the deadline comes.

[Vorkuta]

Anyway more reads:

Vedith's posts come off as 1000!% Fluff and no content, but I assume he's usually like this.
I played with a certain "Not_Mafia" before and he's on the same level of troll.
I hate the fact that he's outright not going to read anything that was posted before his replace-in and wants to be spoonfed but seeing as you're all fine with it

It'd be great if people talked to me about Fus.

Roy Mustang

Alch has kind of been dying down in town points. Like he started off strong, but now it feels like he's fine with kicking back and resting. I'd use the argument "scum getting complacent and waiting out D1", but that would have to apply to at least a few more people here as well.

And Slaxx is a fun one: He says stuff I agree with period. Like when I read his ISO/posts in context I find myself nodding along, and not as much fluff as other players IMHO,
I'm assuming that most of your scum reads come because of prior gameplay experience, but I'd like to think that the FL vs Slaxx is TvT (I've said this in a previous game before and that turned out nicely....)

[Vorkuta]

Doubt Baezu gets lynched today tbh.

But that's kind of my point.

Without DISCUSSION, she would've stayed as scumread #1 for most people.
Then we made discussion, progressed, and she turned into a nice core!town figure.

Then we stopped talking, had like 12hrs of silence, had fun with Vedith's arrival
And look at the mess that is the VC now.

My last few games had pretty much this exact thing going on at various points throughout and I'm scared to count how many suboptimal (and lack of discussion) deadline-hammers I've seen due to town inactivity in general.
What's even worse is that the player DOING the deadline-hammer is stuck in a really horrible spot for the rest of the game.

You guys know this, why am I writing this

So TL;DR, let's try and avoid deadlines and get shit done before them.

[Vorkuta]

Should I sheep?

You should sheep Something_Smart

[Vorkuta]

Uhh, does that need to be deleted?

? which one?

[Vorkuta]

So I've played with Vork before and this posting about my play style seems extremely fake.

*stares at this*
I mean you replaced out of the last game, but you seem to be equally meme~y/troll~y.
It's just in the other game, OTHER PLAYERS called you out on it while I watched and tried to gauge your playstyle.

It's not explicitly a scum read, but you score "anti-town" points that in the future could get added to any scum points that you may eventually accumulate.

[Vorkuta]

I’m a day 3 IC

Is this an ""official"" claim, or an ""FL gambit"" claim?

[Vorkuta]

Queue another 12 hours of inactivity

[Vorkuta]

VOTE: Alchemist

He’s been hatcheting me all game

Can confirm this comes of as OMGUS and not thought out.
Still Town Read FL though.

[Vorkuta]

Who are you and what have you done with Boon?

Also now that I'm reading over this again with a fresh set of eyes

Also, do you really think Alch and I, as scum, just both vote you there?

I don't like this. I really really don't like this.

Slaxx in scum PT= "Hey, let's vote FL"
Slaxx in Game Thread= "Do you REALLY THINK we'd do that??"

This reeks of something.

[Vorkuta]

Spoiler:

but I'd like to think that the FL vs Slaxx is TvT

[Vorkuta]

So uh... I see absolutely no takers willing to discuss my Fus push.

Either of you want to comment on the votes?
So Vedith is probably upset I keep calling him a troll, and I still think that. He's been a tiny bit more involved recently but still.

No matter what lynch FL day 3, or if FL doesn't lynch Vork.

What even is this condition/ultimatum? Spoken like scum who knows both FL and Vork are town and is prepping for a guaranteed lynch on one/both of us.
Then again coming from the last game that statement is slightly justified, but I don't like it.

HitAlt feels like he has been giving me subtle scum points throughout the game, but I don't think he's every justified them.
The only time he's acknowledged my existence was to spit on my buddying/FL's friendship, and that seems done just to deny a potential core!town pairing.

[Vorkuta]

My 2 cents

the only way I would see a 2 scum setup working (unless someone can throw me a link to one) is with third party roles.

So let's not get too hasty with Mylo/Lylo calculations please.

[Vorkuta]

I think he means it's not "Normal" as defined by site rules.
He made me

Learn about the site

wiki Normal_Game#Setup where it says

In mini games (at most 13 players), there must be exactly one such group, with no third parties

So that's my bad

What I did spot was that this game is proven to have a daytalk for scum.

-The Mafia private thread will remain open throughout the game.

Is that uhh... a major finding?

[Vorkuta]

Go over the Fus Scum for me

#630

what additional involvement

Like... reading.... and commentary?
Not a full on line-by-line, real time "scum, town, scum, scum, wtf, scum" like Creature (or in this game slaxx) do, but some sort of acknowledgement of in game events. Like you're aware we had a Baezu wagon a while ago, and at one point she was our most universal scum read?
I'm concerned that content before your replace-in at post ~#640 will have 0 impact/effect on your reads, and I don't like that "disregard".

[Vorkuta]

You wanna uh.... do something about the self-vote?
Don't make me sheep you.

[Vorkuta]

[1] Something_Smart : Something_Smart 7

5 days after the game begins, S_Smart realizes that some people might begin to take the game seriously and finally unvotes.

[Vorkuta]

I have read a lot more than people think. I read ISOs when I join in I don't read pages unless I'm interested in the context.

I'm slightly more reassured.

[Vorkuta]

Dann is my best friend IRL so expect some biased modding.

Relevant

[Vorkuta]

Dann changed your Roll PM and made you co-Mod as well

[Vorkuta]

Ouch.
It took a bit to get going after the stuff he put me through in the last game.

And I gave just YOU scum points for those posts, not you & FL together.

[Vorkuta]

High quality counter right there.
I mean Fus- while yes, you do get town points for calling out inactive slots and getting them to play, you don't answer questions, and your ISO is filler.

inb4 what questions haven't I answered!!!11!

baezu is town because of why they interact, not how or where.


Reading player intentions will go farther than meta or 'dumb' reading interactions

What do you mean by why I interact?

[Vorkuta]

scum trying to stay under the radar

You remember the Baezu wagon that got to L-2 a while ago right?

Why would she be worried about attracting unnecessary attention when almost everyone cleared her?

[Vorkuta]

I'm also worried that this inactivity might not stop at D1, but will continue onwards until he becomes a lurking LyLo liability (esp with setup issues).
I feel the same way with Volxen as well, but you guys don't seem to mind as much so....

If we're talking recent "post quantity vs quantity" pings, then I'm also going to have to throw minor shade at Ausuka and S_Smart for

Having a life outside of MS

seemingly relaxing after their strong starts, but I'm pretty sure they'll bounce back.

[Vorkuta]

Will volxen begin talking with a wagon on him?
We tried that in my previous (and only) game with him but got nothing out of that.

A volxen vote from me would be a 'lynch all lurkers' policy vote. I'm fine with it, but are other people?

[Vorkuta]

I'm just gonna put this right over here for Slaxx, please don't mind me

It's bad that you guys keep doing preflip associatives

Well spot it after you have that sweet sweet redflip. Preflip associatives are a great way to convince yourself that someone is scum without a good reason.

/s
So I'm going to request a meta read from others about S_Smart- is he always this... "meh" about things at D1?
The S_Smart I played previously with was kinda cool. This S_Smart feels too go with the flow and disengaged. Is this purely a D1 thing, or a scum!Smart thing?

Yes, I said otherwise a few days ago, but it's been a few days

[Vorkuta]

You not get back to L2?

Sorry don't get this point.

What kind of question is this?

It's me slightly disagreeing with/asking you to develop your reasoning for Baezu being scum.

Policy lynching is trash.
Lynch scum.

Volxen's going to have to say a few more things then, otherwise I consider this slot lurking scum, regardless of how well his predecessor played.

[Vorkuta]

High standards

[Vorkuta]

biased modding

@mod: 'Never gonna give you up' is not a Musical

[Vorkuta]

Mod Bias confirmed:
"Video unavailable The uploader has not made this video available in your country."

[Vorkuta]

@Fus- Let's more game related posts ok?

@Ausuka- Quick question about that (also because I have sliiiight doubts on RCE)

Where's the line between "immediate change of vote = town thought process" and scummy 'flipflopping/fencesitting/uncommitted'?
I'd argue that's a player specific characteristic of RCE (or a conscious choice made this game) and not actually alignment indicative for him.

I'll also use your answer as a reference for my future reads (both to hold you accountable, and to take your advice if I'm happy with said answer).

[Vorkuta]

@#987 Malicious Compliance. I approve.

@Ausuka and FL

Vote: FL, Vote: Ausuka, Vote: FL, Vote: Ausuka, Vote: Fus, teeheee look at me being so town

I get the point about inconsistencies and vote hopping being things scum try and avoid, but I think it's a case-by-case (or player) dependent thing.

Case in point THIS GAME: Vedith sheeping anyone who makes a decent point every few posts.
That's why I don't entirely buy Ausuka's #95~#96 = RCE town point.

@Everyone who's played a game with Volxen
Will my vote there make him more likely to say stuff?
I'm fine with pressuring Volx. and returning to my Fus wagon once he says literally anything.

[Vorkuta]

My only game experience with Volx is where he lurks, makes like 10 posts (RVS and fluff, with like a grand total of 2 analysis posts that have no followup), and replaces out.
He was scum that game so.....

@Slaxx- I was being facetious with "I'll vote off once he says literally anything"
Like Fus I think has a genuine chance of being scum. I don't have anything on Volx. That's the distinction.

[Vorkuta]

his entrance was a vote onto the main wagon

Do you mean the S_Smart wagon where he self-voted?
Because... I hate to break it to you.... RCE did exactly the same thing afterwards.

Or the Baezu one?
In which case I was the 2nd/3rd (RCE on, RCE off, Alch on, Vork on) person on the wagon.

[Vorkuta]

expressed some level of support for the wagon.

I kind of dislike the assumption that "because many people SR someone, a wagon exists"- I think I helped start and push the wagon which led to the town!baezu view we have now.
I mean ok- upon rereading the exchange I can get why you think I was """hopping on the baezu wagon"""

with my second vote..

but still...

Also

a tr on the four most active players

{rce, hitalt, ss}
{alchemist, fuscosco}
{cbynumber, Flavor leaf, umlaut}
{vorkuta}
{baezu, siv36}

This is, like, startlingly close to sorting by postcount.

I'm just saying that this slight shade at me feels a bit agenda-driven when
-other people are guilty of exactly the same thing you accuse me of.
-the same arguments apply to you, and I dislike anything that's "Oh well it's ok if I do it, but the other guys are scummy when they do it"

You've built up enough town points/trust with me and I've agreed with your arguments before, so I have to decide how to balance this and where you stand .

[Vorkuta]

However Day 1 I think we should probe/engage Fus/Volx for the time being.

I'd argue that Fus is just as bad as Volx is, except Fus has been proven to be online (due to his highquality and gamechanging posts right below the most recent VC).
If we're going to kick a dead horse due to inactivity/lurkiness, why not Fus?
Or is there something objectively worse in Volx's posts (I got the "non-controversial reads" and "repeating what others said" in his wall from Slaxx) than in Fus's?

[Vorkuta]

This is quality.

[Vorkuta]

But I don't actually know how I feel on this. I will worry about it later.

+1

couldnt I have just sank you and moved on as scum?

-should've tried it
-even an almighty and powerful scum!fus might need a vork ally no?
-that's not a defense of the points MADE against you, it's an appeal to..... self-meta?

I'm not going to speculate on what scum!everysingleplayer might do or not do.
There have been way too many cases where town players don't play to what I perceive to be their optimal win conditions, and scum plays that just baffle me, so "scum!fus wouldn't do that" isn't really an argument that holds up.

[Vorkuta]

If I am lynched I want Slaxx vig-shot if we have a vig.

Vetoing this.

These ultimatums are bad and anti-town.
Both of you could be wrong!town on this.
There could also be a better and otherwise unlynchable target *coughs*

Morality

*coughs* that a vig could shoot instead.

also former vig here: did not like being put in this situation at all

[Vorkuta]

I'm still trying to figure out how to process wallpost #1015 (as it's basically his reentry into the game).
We have 3 more days and I want to squeeze as much as possible from Fus

yes, I'm still kind of pushing that

while we still have time.

I TR the VT claim, as claiming a PR in scum!volxen's case would've been objectively superior for reasons that I'm sure I don't have to explain

as FL in this game.

. I don't get while he didn't wait until L-1 but meh, I've seen people do this before.
Plus Slaxx was willing to claim for an "activity boost" earlier on.

HOWEVER the wallpost and subsequent posts have things I'm not entirely sure how to process.
So after I think over his reads and think about the people who are trying to push the volx wagon I'll come up with a more concrete read on the guy.
In the mean while please continue posting quality stuff

[Vorkuta]

Scum traitor that turns town IC day 3 with access to Roll PMs.
#biasedmodding

[Vorkuta]

Volx- ok yes, we hear you very loud and clear on your Slaxx agenda. I personally disagree (as a few others do I'm sure) but you've made your point.
Now can you help us with the remaining 10 players?
I'm not going to comment about whether the hypertunneling is town or not

as I didn't make up my mind yet

, but I don't like the wagon and we have 3 days to figure things out.

I'm still pushing Fus, and I don't get why you all are letting him slide with his top-notch and high-quality

shit

posting.
Also Roy Mustang (alch) is on the low side of the post/activity count, and I'm sensing a very diminished presence from him which kind of contrasts his 'not bad' townie start.

Vorkuta, join the Volxen wagon. Best lynch for the day.

Guh..... will an intent to hammer if nothing changes in 2 days suffice?

Also just saw that RC reviewed this setup. FL traitor that turns IC confirmed

[Vorkuta]

wait wasn't this a 2 scum game?

Can I possibly interest

literally anyone

in a Fus wagon?

[Vorkuta]

Like Really Vorkuta, I want to know what you would do if you were in my exact situation

Sorry for the spicy shitpost reply

I wouldn't be in your situation, because I wouldn't allow myself to get scum read for lurking/inactivity come 3 days until the deadline.

Why do you take so much of an issue with this?

There comes a point after which you get diminishing returns with your hypertunneling. You've passed that point.

Give me a quality post, that DOESN'T have the word "Slaxx" in it.
Leave us a legacy IN ADDITION TO 'slaxx is scum- peace out'

[Vorkuta]

That’s a really weird one to read after the shit show that had been the last 48 hours but I won’t be picky I guess.

+1 and as always,

And Slaxx is a fun one: He says stuff I agree with period. Like when I read his ISO/posts in context I find myself nodding along

@Volx- Nothing in my #630 has changed or has even been addressed.
If anything, his playstyle is anti-town and doesn't have any counterplay as he is selectively ignoring [post=or just flat out not reading]or just flat out not reading[/post] whatever he doesn't like, and jokeposts as a response. This needs to be dealt and addressed with.

Good stuff. Let's talk about a few more people as well yeah?

[Vorkuta]

Who else would you like to talk about?

Fus's self vote

You're being like Vedith in that you're asking me to spoonfeed you. I don't like it.

Pick a player that you can talk about that isn't Slaxx, and give us something.
Go down the playerlist in literally whatever order you chose

Also (ninja'd) I'm just skimming this 'VCA'/'Socratic'/'Hydra' ""meta"" argument/discussion from both of you as it doesn't advance THIS PARTICULAR GAME RIGHT HERE RIGHT NOW.
I'm not going to meta read you (as I already have based on our one game).
My issue with you this game is that your Hail Mary and defeatist defense by hypertunneling Slaxx is not playing to a town wincondition.

Boom: Mechanics

[Vorkuta]

*counts to 9*
Where are HitAlt and Roy Mustang on that spectrum?

Is

The scum team is clearly Mustang, Volxen, and RCEnigma

satire or..?

[Vorkuta]

So what are your thoughts on Umlaut/Vedith? And what are your thoughts on FL?

Wait no, I'm the one that's asking the questions here for when/if you flip.

Vedith acts like a lazy troll but has promised me that he's taking this game

semi

-seriously, so I'm having difficulty separating his play vs his personality. He does seem to be the only person

aside from Fus himself

willing to entertain my Fus wagon, and town read by my town reads who I assume have a 'better' understanding of his meta, so null-town.

FL- at first I was like #380, but then I was like #523 and #534, and now we're at #791.
Also Day 3 IC.... like.... my thoughts on this probably don't even matter.

[Vorkuta]

intent to hammer Volxen

in ~30 hours. (not 48 because Mondays..)

We don’t need anymore tbh

Meh- maybe not from Volx, but I think there's something else to discuss

Why do you think Slaxx is likely town?

Where's my post where I give him brownie points for saying stuff I agree with?
I mean I don't know how to explain it- when I read something that I feel to be explicitly wrong/stuff I disagree with, I get a feeling of "NO" in my gut

and then flip my table

. When I read Slaxx's stuff, his reasoning and conclusions make me nod along in agreement.
I have no experience with Slaxx before, so I can't judge "scum!slaxxscumrange" or whatever so I see that there's a blindspot in my read.

This is you're only warning.

Ok I buy that you're doing subtle behind the scene things so I won't use that as a reason to scum read you more.

Must.. resist... urge... to... grammar

In that case I town read most of what you have to say and your reaction to this just now, but have a few points that I disagree with.

Also @Vork I think Fus is likely town and this is just his playstyle.

So what happens during LyLo when this slot doesn't really change their playstyle.
They have a SELF-VOTE on them ffs, and noone's acknowledged that.

[Vorkuta]

he's not a fukkin ic.

Spicy.
This stuff is what I want to discuss of this before the hammer.

[Vorkuta]

Yes, we can catch scum!FL because he slipped up and gambitted a roll that's not allowed. Naive.

Observation about Ausuka- in addition to my suspicions and issues with some of her arguments which I outlined in #1013, I noticed that she's the one REALLY focused on the mechanical aspects of the game (FL's role/setupspec/meta-vs-nonmeta-reads). This pings scum to me, so I'd like some Meta feeback for this.

So far the case I have for a scum!Ausuka:
-Early questions/reads/mechanical analysis to get universal town points, AND to make town waste posts/discussion on topics that are... for lack of a better term "unproductive" by throwing a wrench in the works.
-Mid D-1 lowest-hanging fruit (Baezu) wagon and quite the tunnel on her.
-Late D-1 "reluctant" switch to Volxen
-Almost-end-of-D1 "disruption" and organizing chaos while trying to prevent/delay the hammer.
and otherwise maintaining a quite a low presence in between.
This could stand regardless of how Baezu and Volx actually were to flip.

My biggest issue with making her my scum!suspect #1 is that there was probably a better way to get off the volxen wagon than the way she did.

[Vorkuta]

To piggy back on that: I think she's placing more emphasis on the Volxen "wagon", but not on the Volxen "player" and his posts- she hasn't mentioned anything he's SAID specifically which also pings me.

This COULD be "low effort" in the sense that the volxen wallposts were just skimmed over because aint nobody got time to read/analyze that when there are pages of catch up do, but Ausuka has proven to be much better than that, don't like how she doesn't actually address the root cause of the wagon,

[Vorkuta]

Reasons for a scum!Ausuka dropping off any Volxen wagon:
-Letting other people do the dirty work so that when this wagon is brought up in the future she can have clean hands
-Throwing a wrench in the works, causing more unnecessary panic/distraction for town
-To keep the Volxen lynchbait alive to use for later while other mislynches (or cases for them) are pursued in the meanwhile
-scum!Ausuka might want to keep scum!Volxen alive for... mysterious reasons

Reasons for a town!Ausuka dropping off any Volxen wagon:
-genuinely believes that Volx is town and wants to stop the Volxen mislynch
-shit that's actually a pretty damn good reason

I don't know to what extent Ausuka likes getting her hands dirty as scum so I'd like some meta feedback (as I've previously requested), but here's the thing:
I THINK the most-towniest!Ausuka thing to have done would be to see that I'm actually trying to delay this lynch for as long as possible and to make conversation happen in the meanwhile as
-if anyone quickhammers then that's immediate foul play
-unvoting is an extremely anti-town and ""selfish"" play as I've stated an intent to hammer which means volxen is effectively lynched (sorry bro), and this is a "bonus" ~30 hours of twilight discussion. You can't just willy-nilly undo that WITHOUT a good pressing reason, and "oh it's too easy" doesn't cut it as has been mentioned before.

However I freely admit I have past trauma over "deadline" rush shenanigans and have gone on to hypertunnel players who pull stuff like this using the deadline panic to try and force/abuse the situation on a personal hunch IN DEFIANCE of what town perceives to be the best option. I'm still trying to balance it out.

[Vorkuta]

So is there a wagon that is actually LIKELY TO HAPPEN in the next several hours that you can get behind?
Thoughts on the rest- particularly S_Smart and Fus please

Also the Fus wagon is so good, even Fus is on it.

[Vorkuta]

..literally Alchemist or Vedith

Vedith I'm scared of from #1106

Alch on the other hand...
-Very low post count/little premise/doesn't stick out
-Strong start but very very quiet in the midgame = scum getting complacent?
-Swoops in at the end of the day almost right after RCE mentions him = scum!lurker?

The above is me being potentially open to support an alch wagon SO LONG AS there's proper discussion around it and he has time to defend himself in the ~30 hours we have left. I'm not very optimistic, and this is really pushing "anything is better than a no lynch" today...

I’d say that’s difficult.

Can confirm- my Fus wagon has Fus on it and it's still not going anywhere.

[Vorkuta]

What I’m saying is that nobody had actually tried to make them form.

Let's go Fus wagon, let's go! *clap clap*

Wanna make another wagon happen?

Yes, but not with you .... But I've been on every single wagon so far so I don't want to miss out.

[Vorkuta]

scum waiting for some Town approval

I like this phrase, but I think RCE wants to see if there's a critical mass of townies that would be interested in supporting an Alch wagon before actually starting it to not waste our remaining ~30 hours. The ensuring chaos he creates with a vote would destabilize the volx wagon which would probably end up with a no-lynch.

Also best wagon right here

[2] Fuscosco : Vorkuta 630, Fuscosco 1050

[Vorkuta]

I-dont-get-the-reference.gif

So someone explain to me why we are moving votes away from scum Volxen?

Because people have decided that BASED ON WAGON ACTIVITY (and not volxen's defense) that volx was town and that they don't want to lynch a townie, as if they had a problem with that back when he claimed VT
Now we have to decide how to proceed.

with my fus wagon

[Vorkuta]

@Dan

can you show us everyone's roll PMs while you're at it?
Silence from you is confirmation that volx is scum. /s

and are changing the lynch target due to"wagon activity" over anything else in the game

+1
Like you guys that are jumping off the volxen wagon- have you actually READ (or just skimmed?) the argument and his defense while on the wagon?

By jumping off you guys implicitly accept responsibility for a no-lynch AND for providing another wagon to prevent said no lynch.

Not delivering, or not even ATTEMPTING to deliver, is a very very big no-no from me.

@Vedith
He's self-voting. He's not serious. He doesn't make non-fluff posts. I've made the case on him and NO ONE wishes to engage this seriously.
I have what I perceive to be a solid scum!fus case (that's slightly more solid than the scum!ausuka and on par with the scum!volx cases), but people mention him ONLY AFTER I explicitly bring it up. What if this continues in Lylo?
Lurking/low activity Alch, and S_S I'm wiling to give a slight pass on D1.
Fus does not get the same pass.

[Vorkuta]

Speak of the devil. But erm... #800

Let's no lynch

Vedith steals page tops and as such will receive no biased modding. >:(

Also I think Dan won't answer us Vedith.

[Vorkuta]

So it was fine when Volxen was telling the vig to do stuff, but now that Vedith does it you decide to wake up?

[Vorkuta]

He was never actually on my wagon

was too busy self-voting

when it was a thing.
Like ok- I'll take this semi seriously

@SS
-explain
-do you think it can go through today?
-do you have other "not-town" reads?
-no u

[Vorkuta]

As long as we don't make any more new wagons

What about my preexisting Fus wagon? Can that still be a thing?

[Vorkuta]

I think a NL is anti-town, and everyone that is responsible for today's NL will have a ton of scum points the next day.

As I've already said:

By jumping off you guys implicitly accept responsibility for a no-lynch AND for providing another wagon to prevent said no lynch.

So can we not we stop with the obstructionism and get a wagon that MOST of us can agree on?

by which I mean the fus wagon

Or at the very least keep on TALKING?

[Vorkuta]

If Ausuka is scum and her goal is to force multiple townies to claim

Your entire argument hinges on the point that "scum want role claims", and scum!Ausuka is not possible because scum!Ausuka didn't act in the manner in which to get the most claims out. I've seen scum play.... differently

hi FL

I've already presented a case for a scum!Ausuka that's more interested in causing chaos/disturbance for the rest of town, and derailing """meaningful""" discussion while looking clean at the end of the day.
That being said I agree with #1238 and her reads so her case has a lot of weight on BOTH ends of the scale.

Either way, an ausuka wagon isn't going through in 24 hours so I'll leave that until later and try and focus on TODAY'S LYNCH

Which should be Fus.

as much as possible.

[Vorkuta]

So you and vedith can joke around but I can't?
I love the musical summary. I can see you're taking this last day very seriously.

[Vorkuta]

Ofc I'm bitter
-troll infestation
-deadline shenanigans
-our fus wagon is being ignored
-obstructionism and derailing galore

[Vorkuta]

Is this the way it ends?

I can hammer in 10 hours (if someone votes), or I can vote him now- which one do we want more?

[Vorkuta]

The hammer is up for grabs

How many times do I have to call it?
Intent to hammer in a few hours

[Vorkuta]

@Volxen- you've made your PR requests fairly obvious.

@Vedith- (expired on 2019-04-09 17:50:20)

[Vorkuta]

(expired on 2019-04-09 16:50:20): better?

[Vorkuta]

I mean I want to delay hammer time for as long as possible just in case anyone has something else to say.
Except idk if I'll be in front of a PC at deadline-1 minute AND vedith and slaxx seem to want the lynch ASAP.

[Vorkuta]

Yes ok- but better a flip w/ a bit more discussion no?

Thun

[Vorkuta]

Ask me any question I won't lie to you.

Brb, let me wikipedia some paradoxes that you physically can't answer.

But it's not though- like I swear someone promised content that they didn't deliver on, and I'd rather they did before the flip.

[Vorkuta]

If we miss deadline it’s on you

Well aware and perfectly willing to take responsibility. Hence my count down timers and what not.

Try me

Is this sentence false?

[Vorkuta]

Yes.

No- you've made it true with your answer.

[Vorkuta]

Why risk having to take responsibility when you can just end it

For starters- I'd be missing out on this high quality and game-related chat with vedith if I'd've hammered an hour ago.

Then... like... I'm hammering when MY countdown clock hits zero. Why are you so concerned?

Plus I'm hoping people will show up and add their 2 cents.

It was a 50/50 chance of me being a liar.

But you promised.....
and it was a 100% chance of you lying- hence paradox.

[Vorkuta]

See slaxx- I outed scum!vedith. All aboard the vedith wagon

train leaves in 3 hours

/s

No, I'm asking you why you're concerned about waiting another hour or so for the lynch.
Like look- not hammering puts ME in a really really bad game spot.
Similarly, anyone jumping off the wagon before the will put THEM in a bad game spot.
Both of these cases are pretty much akin to a scum claim.

[Vorkuta]

A mix of #1088 and

Vedith I'm scared of from #1106

I think Vedith has a playstyle that has little counterplay when it comes to reading it, and I don't like that.
He can hide behind "LOL WAS TROLL" regardless of what he says and that kind of bugs me, but from what I understand that's Vedith in every game.
He's also been shown to try quite hard to go with the flow, asking people which way to sheep, and that bugs me, but I'm pretty sure this is slightly more town!Vedith behavior.

Also he joined my fus wagon for a bit, so that was nice

[Vorkuta]

No might about it!

Are you... threatening RCE...? really?

I mean ^ case in point, but still.

[Vorkuta]

I nominate that to the

journal of obvious grammar

[Vorkuta]

-1
You were town neighbor in our only game together (NK's 2058) so I'm primarily deferring to FL's read on you for my meta.

[Vorkuta]

I give up- I want to sleep, and there's really no point now that I see the lack of anything.

VOTE: Volxen = Hammered.

[Vorkuta]

Where the F were our protective?!?!

Doctors and Bodyguards targeting you will not save you from a nightkill.

.....?

[Vorkuta]

3.5 (F doesn't count) swears in 2 posts.
I view this as very passionate town.

swear count analysis = SCA. patent pending

[Vorkuta]

I think what SS is saying is that he wants to 1 v 1 me right now.

I approve of this 1v1.

Okay no, and full disclosure it's because I'm afraid you're a vig and just slipped your role. Don't confirm or deny that obviously.

I'm pretty certain that this is where S_Smart slipped his role, but this would still leave a 50/50 between S_S and Vedith, and this REALLY incriminates Vedith.
HOWEVER I don't believe that scum would be this obvious which clears Vedith (even more) in my books.

votes
[7] volxen : Flavor Leaf 890, Baezu 903, Slaxx 930, Vedith 1008, HitAlt 1097, Alchemist21 1306, Vorkuta 1374

So let me get the story straight: Volx dies, S_Smart sees a town flips and follows

1) Vigilante: Shoot Slaxx.

which was written in pretty in a huge font size so it's hard to ignore.

[Vorkuta]

So will people take my fus wagon A BIT MORE SERIOUSLY today maybe yeah?
As is tradition
VOTE: Fus
@FUS- get back on

[Vorkuta]

vork, what's your case on me again, besides I 'lurked away'

TL;DR- this

Where's my "I'd like to interest everyone in a fus push" post that I've copied and pasted to people like 5 times so far?
#630 plus more tidbits here and there.
I could upgrade/consolidate that with more recent information, but it's prolly not going through so meh.

[Vorkuta]

>1 I type a post and try to reply to FL
>2 FL types something and ninjas
>3 I delete my post and go back to (1)

[Vorkuta]

Let me guess- Ausuka's one-shot investigative result is a guilty on FL
But FL is Day 3 IC

[Vorkuta]

My guilty’s on Ausuka, not Alchemist.

Thoughts?

Why... vote... alch... then?
So the "guilty"- is it a:
-Hard Cop claim and investigating Ausuka = guilty? or
-Soft Tracker/Voyeur/Follower/Watcher claim guilty?

also what happened to D3 IC- are we redacting that claim?

I also was crumbing like I was a traitor yesterday

Can I see that please and thank you?

[Vorkuta]

@Fus: Ausuka is 1-shot, which means after tonight she's just conf!town for all intents and purposes, so why would scum NK a ""VT"" when there are other PRs in play (like the Doc that Macho Implies, or FL, or... yeah)

Also- I don't know if I should be bringing this up, but is there still the chance for a 2 scum team this game?

Also I'm sorry- I can't resist.

soft hard guilty

ENGLISH

mf

DO YOU SPEAK IT??

[Vorkuta]

Which kinda wrecks my theory of the traitor, and Alchemist playing around it.

I literally typed this before you posted.

For your traitor posting to have "worked", home-base would have to be 2 scum looking for a traitor.
You rolled a guilty on Ausuka, who has a PR.
You claim Alch is homebase, and you're sure RCE is homebase#2.

[Vorkuta]

Him knowing Ausuka is town

This was proven.... where...?

[Vorkuta]

@Alch- Is FL wrong!town or scum?

@FL- for this gambit to "work"... you need the real-time interaction with Alch yes? (like RCE hasn't reported in)
Idk I can't keep up. When my Fus wagon fails I'll probably sheep you unless something else happens, but I'd like to be spoonfed in the time being.

[Vorkuta]

Also, Alchemist hasn’t been a heavy poster this game yet he just happens to be here RIGHT when I do that gambit?

I buy this? Do I buy this? I buy this- this sounds correct.

Alchemist was already aware that I saw him as scum prior to this day phase. You can look at Day 1 to see our interactions.

Brb

[Vorkuta]

Baezu/Vorkuta could've easily been a scum!lynch waiting to happen, and derailed to land us at town instead.

Ok- let's look at how the wagons ended, and were there common denominators in derailing the wagons?

[Vorkuta]

Ok- let's look at how the wagons ended, and were there common denominators in derailing the wagons?

Can somebody get back to me on this? I kind of don't want to do preflip associatives just yet, but a common denominator might give us something.

Oh my gosh...I know who you are...obviously I won’t say anything, but like...I don’t actually know for sure who you are, but I know that physically...I know who you are.

You mean HitAlt's main?

[Vorkuta]

If I blink 1 more time, will you 180 and pull 3 completely new names out of a hat or....?

[Vorkuta]

*blinks*
I can do the same thing- is this scum!FL fishing for the easiest mislynch he can find?
First with the ausuka/alch ""gambit"", then with ""hitalt/vork"" conf!town>conf!scum pivot?

Except I don't.

[Vorkuta]

I. THINK. VORK. IS. A. GOOD. LYNCH. SAID. IT. A. HUNDRED. TIMES.

This must be true because it's in all caps and has dots.

I feel that doubt should be gone.

But do you still D3 IC yourself?

[Vorkuta]

Ninja'd so hard

[Vorkuta]

@HitAlt: Why do you keep talking and asking about the protective all the time?

[Vorkuta]

RCEnigma, one of Vorkuta-Hit, one of Baezu-Fuos.

Here's my issue. FL. Almost every other post of yours on D2 has been a gambit, or a read change, or a plot to get bussing, or something to get people to distance.
Obviously I'm slightly butthurt that the FL-Vork bros4lyfe is no longer a thing, but I don't remember town FL being THIS disruptive.

I am always a solid investigation for Night 1

Will this stand in any and all future games we might have together?
If so, can I quote this in said future games?

[Vorkuta]

Your ISO overview of RCE is complete cherrypicking.
Give me any random player, and I can go through RCE's ISO to ""prove"" that scum!RCE is 1000!% partners with said random player.

[Vorkuta]

I'm willing to buy town!FL due to the promised D3 IC flip.

no shit right

However this reasoning is not something I can blindly sheep behind, ESPECIALLY considering the volxen mislynch.

[Vorkuta]

Ok FL- Imma stop you RIGHT THERE.

RCE hasn't checked in. He promised us reads on a few people. HitAlt is making the case for a PR crumb.

unless you're gambitting

You're GIVING HIM material to play around. Let him dig his own grave first no?

Good hatchet.

Can I get that in English? The wiki doesn't have that in the glossary

[Vorkuta]

You're GIVING HIM material to play around

if I reveal it now, we might lose out on how scum plays around a slot that is confirmed to be innocent or guilty

OR

Once RCE replies, or anyone "bites" and also agrees with your "RCE is 100% scum regardless of what" premise, you'll do a complete 180 and be all like 'all according to keikaku

note: keikaku means plan

, thank you for outing yourself as an '
-RCE supporter
-RCE objector
-RCE busser
-RCE wagoner
-RCE defender

pick the combination that makes you look the most scum

[Vorkuta]

Congratulations Ausuka- you have fallen for the "Let's see who will defend RCE and out themselves as scum" bait/gambit/Boonthing
Please prepare yourself.
/s

I think your defense of RCEnigma is unwarranted, to be honest, as I believe I have a rather strong case in that last section to implicate ScumRCE.

[Vorkuta]

I’d also like to point out when regarding Vorkuta, that even when I started to push him in late game in that last game, where he was town he didn’t start shading me ever. I was scum there.

So it hasn't occurred to you that I might be

traumatized

more skeptical and not as naive as last game?
When I didn't vigshot you in N3, it meant that I took a leap of faith and assumed you were conf!town regardless of what happened, that I wasn't EVER going to vigshot you, and that EVERYTHING was part of

FL's

Morality's plan.
This is me

being hit with a brick

and wising up.

Also: not "shading"

I'm willing to buy town!FL due to the promised D3 IC flip. no shit right
However this reasoning is not something I can blindly sheep behind, ESPECIALLY considering the volxen mislynch.

[Vorkuta]

but I’m not gambiting here. I swear on UnaBombah, and I wouldn’t do anything to harm that fella.

Like I don't even know what this is, but I'm not buying it anymore PERIOD.

[Vorkuta]

Okay, and I don’t want you today.

Is this you backing down after I retaliate a tiny bit?
Does town!FL even do this?

does this mean we can bro up together again?

I feel I’ve been very transparent in my reads, tbh. Even my Flips.

Do I ISO you and provide EXPLICIT contradictions with random/situational/cherrypicked explanations?

[Vorkuta]

I mean, you can, but I will have an answer for everything.

You probably will.
Fine- I humbly and sincerely apologize for any and all "shade" that I have thrown your way in the previous several posts, and would like to take 99% of it back.
Faith in glorious and impervious FL restored.

Which lynch would you like today?

[Vorkuta]

Is it even worth hearing RCE out, or do I just park my vote here until the deadline?

[Vorkuta]

I don't know why I'm even trying but:

-Can I interest anyone in a Fus push?
-The Fus wagon is so good even Fus is on it!
-You guys are just going to let a potential scum!Fus get away with it without doing anything?

[Vorkuta]

If we are still not lynching in Baezu/Vork, OR they are both town

Is anyone going to look at how our wagons were derailed and find a common denominator? We might find something there.

I'm mobile posting so I can't for now

Knowing Boon like I (/we all?) do, I'm not even putting "scumtheatre Boon/Vork" beyond his reach.

"scumtheatre" Boon&*insert literally anyone but like Fus here* works just as well if you're going by scum range.
He can write both parts for the other to copy and paste.

Don't know what Vorks "reach" is though.

No reach: I only roll town
I mean I have comments on what I think is optimal and suboptimal scum play if that's what you're interested in.

[Vorkuta]

Reading this in real time is a huge rollercoaster

[Vorkuta]

At least finally there's the bare minimum Fus discussion going on. Jump on my wagon anyone?

@FL- what's your case on me this time?
can you TL;DR and FINALIZE it so I don't have to cherry pick through your ISO and sort out what's relevant/whats irrelevant/what's obsolete?
I can't keep up with this 'stream of consciousness'

[Vorkuta]

3 way scum theatre...?

Any interaction between players = X-way scum theatre.

[Vorkuta]

your hatcheting instantly

Can literally anyone explain hatcheting as I've asked for previously?

the fact you were on the final 4 of the Volxen wagon

I'm pretty damn sure I was in the first half of people to push it, and stated an intent to hammer just to see what would happen to the wagon

as well as try and keep my fus wagon going for as long as possible

You started to come off politically rather than town agenda’d to keep balance, which is destroyed when I flip flop, so you flailed a bit afterwards.

This sentence has too many advanced mafia concepts for my newbie brain too handle, but I'll try:
-my "town agenda" is to maintain balance while hearing people out.
Like you realize that when you decide that someone is going to be a "push", then ANYTHING that they say is going to come from a position of "I have to respond to FL because he's pushing me" which is inherently disadvantageous for them, and as a result for town if they happen to be town.
-I'd argue my 'politicing' is trying to also 'stream of conscious' what happens to my townblock in light of the new points raised up
-I'm sorry, I've ISO'd myself and I don't see "flailing" so much as 'what FL says is BS to me, and this is why'

You were being protected by both Vedith and RCE alongside myself

RCE's """protection""" of yours truly is a fairly recent development- he's been giving me scum points for most of the game

RCE’s town case into losing it is looking like semi setting up distance.

Then... why not go after RCE... if your "case" for him is more solid than your "case" for me?
Oh you can't get a town!majority on an almost universal town read so you go after the lower hanging fruit, and this is pretty much identical to you treading the water with your Alch/Ausuka gambit a while ago.

[Vorkuta]

his push against fus that I don't think he's really explained enough to sway me

......
It's up to ME to EXPLAIN a scum!fus???
None of you can defend the guy- look at his post count/content/ISO/fluff.

A scum!FUS is MORE than capable of hiding under this troll persona and doing exactly what he's doing right now.
There's no guarantee or any incentive for him to "turn on" today or tomorrow with th way things are going right now.
This deserves ATTENTION.

[Vorkuta]

Do I even want to read that giant axe swing?

TL;DR- FL's explanation == tealeaves that resettle with every new reading

[Vorkuta]

-term, meaning what exactly?
-A50 is who/what?
-NK15's Normal2058? TL;DR Morality&Boats scum vs RC&Shoshin(who both replaced out) town?
We were both in it, and I don't recall the term being used very often

[Vorkuta]

Ty- found the original post.

So trying to nip a case for wrong!town in the bud BEFORE/AS it develops = hatchet-ting = scum play.
I can refer you to several cases where this happened this game (Ausuka hatchetting the volx wagon for example), but ofc that can be hand-waved away.

[Vorkuta]

Oh no alch- you've outed yourself as scum by (pick any from list below)

-bussing fus (because fus is your scum buddy)
-supporting vedith (because we're going to have to trust that your scum buddy is innocent)
-supporting vork (to shift pressure away from scum!vork to any!fus)
-typing text (you can't win)

[Vorkuta]

if you think you see someone crumbing a pr then keep it to yourself instead of drawing scum’s attention to it.

Okay no, and full disclosure it's because I'm afraid you're a vig and just slipped your role. Don't confirm or deny that obviously.

[Vorkuta]

,,,?
I'm not set on anything...: I'm merely pointing out something similar that happened previously, and am thinking about how to process this.

[Vorkuta]

nobody being able to justify not being on Fus though

can confirm- even Fus can't justify not being on his own wagon

[Vorkuta]

I'll bite:
-TIL that optimum playstyle is to lurk and troll until D3.

she

-Outed Alt, or assumption?

[Vorkuta]

I just think that makes her the more obvious scape goat for scum

We know two of RCE’s town reads were town, and one of his pool reads were town. I believe Alchemist to be scum, and I don’t think he lists both his partners here.

Exactly one of Vorkuta/Hit is scum. Ausuka is town from claim, as there’s zero reason to play as she is right now as scum.

Leaves Fusco and Baezu.


RCEnigma, one of Vorkuta-Hit, one of Baezu-Fuos.

Only wild card is Vedith.

Hit/Fuos or Vork/Baezu are the likely pairings of the 2

ALSO:
Stop hatchetting my Fus case.

did I use that right?

[Vorkuta]

So when my scum buddies say "hey FL- you TR me, so let's get off scum!vork", that's seducing,
But when my scum buddies say "hey FL- NO, that's not really true and here's why...", that's hatcheting.

And regardless of which term is used, I am still scum.
Do you guys... see a slight problem with this?

[Vorkuta]

This is an example of a hatchet.

When scum!vork attacks a scum!vork claim, it becomes a hatchet.
What about when town!vork attacks a scum!vork push?

Vork getting stuck on annoyance/semantics doesn't help my read on them at all.

I'm being facetious in trying to get my point across.
FL has vomited ALL OF THE TEXT- (feel free to ISO him)
IN THAT PILE of vomit, there is a case for scum!(anyone), town!(anyone), scum!pair(almost anyone), and he's free to cherry pick as he chooses whenever he wants to.
That is my 'annoyance'- a criticism of what he's doing this game, and an 'appeal' to the rest of town that this should not be acceptable.

[Vorkuta]

]This is a joke right?
Can an UNVOTE: do anything?