Mini Normal 2067: Musicals [Endgame]

[RCEnigma]

Wolfy opening VOTE: S_S

[RCEnigma]

SS I....I can see you...

[RCEnigma]

hi

VOTE: rcenigma

rce can you please elaborate on what about SS's opening was wolfy to you?

He just did this as scum in a game where someone else replicated a recent scum opening and was townread for it. They were town but that isn't the point.

[RCEnigma]

Why'd you put a vote down before you had an answer to your question?

[RCEnigma]

Not a Hydra.

[RCEnigma]

voting is an important aspect of the just democratic process

Not in my Marxist society.

[RCEnigma]

I assume he's talking about this, where I selfvoted as scum. I don't know what he's referring to with the second part though.

So prior to BooneyToonz start Creature rolled scum in a large normal that Nero replaced into. His opening in BooneyToonz was the same as that scum game, this T/NAI/W list.

Not remembering makes my suspicion less likely. But doesn't make me think town anyways.

[RCEnigma]

S_S and Fuscosco are obviously not scum together. Likewise S_S and HitAlt.

Why'd you put a vote down before you had an answer to your question?

Weird question. Why wait? When should someone put a vote down?

S_S and Fuscosco are obviously not scum together. Likewise S_S and HitAlt.

Why'd you put a vote down before you had an answer to your question?

Weird question. Why wait? When should someone put a vote down?

I found that weird also...It’s RVS why does he need to wait to cast his vote for you?

Thank you for your promptness Ausuka and Ausuka#2.

The same way I voted with intention due to what I saw was a scummy self vote, I assume Ausuka voted with intention. Though I wanted to know her motivation, not that other people think RVS votes should be considered nai.

[RCEnigma]

Creatures alignment doesn't factor in, I said as much. The long and short of it is I figured SS thought it's an easy townreadable move. The point about Creature would be more like, where I imagine the inspiration for replicating the opening would come from. Since the normal Creature did it was also mentioned in BooneyToonz in response.

[RCEnigma]

You did initially, Profii tried to push it even more and xtoxm pushed against it but only because you were scum together anyway.

[RCEnigma]

I selfvoted because i could, because it sparks discussion, and because, aside from conspicuously not voting at all, its my mo

So this not true anymore?

[RCEnigma]

SS I've only gone as far back as open 728. But from that game to the present day you have only self voted as scum. Do you have a game that you have done so as town?

[RCEnigma]

Nothing personal kid, just policy.

[RCEnigma]

Was t about him being online. Just that I was in that game and this one.

I'm inclined to believe SS might be town due to how many people came to his defense over it. Possibly to buddy him. Though that's not strong.

[RCEnigma]

VOTE: Baezu
Very likely scum.

[RCEnigma]

Hmm maybe not VOTE: Siv

[RCEnigma]

Its eay too early to scum read siv?

that baezu vote, though, had just enough meat to be real. what happened?

On what grounds?

Baezu hiding behind Umlauts questioning was initially +scum for me but 91 is pretty much where I'm at. Maybe less sure on Ausuka just because I know she can town tell pretty easily as scum.

[RCEnigma]

but what I said was that I could see how one could scumread baezu thus far, having at least had content

The lack of content was why I voted siv instead. I think RVS is misused and is only really useful when the thread initially opens, those that come in late should choose to be productive when slots are already putting out content.

So you have the SS meta discussion, Umlauts theory interjections, etc and Siv chose to vote because my name looked like RC. He's not a new player going with the flow and I think he would have the wherewithal to notice what's going on around him, even if he just skimmed the page.

[RCEnigma]

I wasn't even in that game at the beginning, what are you talking about?

You repped in and faked a guilty on FL right?

Vorkuta can you expand on what you think we're both doing and how it compares to our last game?

[RCEnigma]

Are you conf!town yet? Or will it take like 5 more posts until you reach that conclusion?

He's been confscum since 133

All the gas we needed to get this wagon rolling.

[RCEnigma]

The more you talk the further your lynch slips away. It has to be today.

[RCEnigma]

We actually should have lynched saudade to prevent this, the darkest timeline.

[RCEnigma]

I’m actually neither of these things, but isn’t it funny that your posting goes up exponentially once you’re actually targeted?!

Why did you say this but then unvote? This sounds like you’re still trying to call hitalt scummy but while also backing off.

I had a few reasons for unvoting
1) just because hitalt registers as scummy on my radar does not mean he is and if he is;
2) it looked like a wagon on him was not going to be formed in this day phase so I’d rather support a wagon that I agree with that has a possibility of actually going today

You didn't unvote to support another wagon though, it was just an unvote.

[RCEnigma]

FL how familiar are you with this playerlist?

[RCEnigma]

Well....where's your spirit for adventure?

[RCEnigma]

Our first contact, where Varsoon ripped me a new one.

[RCEnigma]

I really hate giving FL time. But I'll have an 80% read on him by the end of the day. So not an option today for me.

[RCEnigma]

So vote him.

[RCEnigma]

These are verifiable things if you take the time to put the work in though.

[RCEnigma]

Hello, I am one of the people.

I haven't done a readslist in awhile so, why not.

(Ausuka, Alchemist, SS, Umlaut, Vorkuta)
(HitAlt, FL, Cbynumber)
(Fuscosco, Baezu, Siv)

Don't feel strongly about anyone this game so it's literally Townleans - null - scumleans.

Though I do think Alchemist becomes my top town on a Siv red flip.

[RCEnigma]

Aaaaaalright so, this is a 180 from the post I backed off of you for. In which you townread all of Ausuka, Umlaut, SS. HitAlt was your initial scum.

I'm not sold on HitAlt scum but I'm interested the flip from Ausuka town to scum when your read is that Siv is doing less than Ausuka but in the same manner. It's only really interesting because of the timing and Sivs recent posting doesn't really redeem him AND he has now repped out.

Then your read on me isn't consistent with the rest of your reads. From what I can tell you are tying me to Ausuka as scum but have siv and SS as your next up. Both of whom where my early pushes and Siv I've doubled down on. It would feel more believable if you went SS + me as early distancing than tying me with Ausuka.

[RCEnigma]

This post in particular pings me the wrong way...it almost feels like she’s trying to distance herself from RCE. And if she didn’t really know who else to vote for, why put a vote on Siv? Simply because they have not responded?

Ausuka seems to me like someone playing scum really well

That and the implication you made that I'm aiming at LHF. When the town motivation would be, getting irrelevant slots to produce some type of content.

[RCEnigma]

The wording there was also kind of fencesitting on a lot of reads which I didn't mind until you got to the conclusion of voting Ausuka because I'm in a similar boat, mostly because I'm not trying to associate actions with scum motives pre-page 10.

[RCEnigma]

When I say fencesitting on reads I mean alchemist, Ausuka, Cbynumber, FL, lesser extent myself, Siv. But you have Ausuka and Siv as your top 2 scumreads anyway.

[RCEnigma]

1 between Baezu/Siv maybe 2.

FL if you kill me tonight I'll be extremely disappointed and highly upset.

[RCEnigma]

SomethingSmart has literally no meaningful content. Seriously dude, can you make a meaningful contribution to this game?

Patience, young Padawan.

Anything in particular you want my opinion on?

I do! Particularly on Siv/Baezu. Baezu's readflips. Their mutual scumreads on each other without much action.

How do you feel about cbynumbers posting? Fuscosco's recent posts. What does Umlauts apprehensive approach to being consensus read say to you?

[RCEnigma]

Wow it's almost as if you've read his posts

Well, damn.

Let’s just lynch me Day 3.

Ignore the contentless crap

If I were to be extremely analytical/anti-FL agenda driven, I could make the argument that he hasn't produced any substance this entire game, with the exception of 'unpopular opinion baezu town".

Everything else has been 'oh hi guys', 'hi slaxx', 'hey last game was fun', and 'cologne'

Obviously the guy is going to pick up steam sooner or later but yeah.

This actually would have been pretty +town for FL like 4 months ago. The only reason I wouldn't townbin him for it now is the open admittance to altering his game since continuing his meta would have probably opened him to be lynchable/mislynchable day 1.

[RCEnigma]

Why do you think you made Siv leave? The replace-out seemed pretty random to me.

You didn't read it as tactical? That...surprises me actually.

[RCEnigma]

I'm currently leaning fusco town. But it's tentative since I switch between scum/town every other string of posts. Think the multiball comment would be a town comment anywhere but normal queue.

[RCEnigma]

Why do you think you made Siv leave? The replace-out seemed pretty random to me.

You didn't read it as tactical? That...surprises me actually.

You did? Right before he replaced out he made a significant post answering my questions so I didn’t grt the sense they were avoiding pressure.

I did, pressure from FL, yourself, Vorkuta disagreeing on his points, I was posturing to pressure him further. It would be disingenuous for me to wave it off as nothing.

[RCEnigma]

Fight me.... But like, tomorrow with my not so fake red check.

[RCEnigma]

Why do you think you made Siv leave? The replace-out seemed pretty random to me.

You didn't read it as tactical? That...surprises me actually.

It's nice to assume other people aren't breaking the rules...

Ye of too much faith.

[RCEnigma]

So you were just lurking admittedly.

*crickets chirping*
Yep looks I'm just active at different times

Nice. Just checking.


@Fuo - I’m known as an extremely strong scum player who hasn’t lost a game in a year and a half, so if you think this is master level scum play going down, be my guest.

There is almost nothing I deem outside of your scum range.

For example based on this statement can I see you taking a passive role as scum and orchestrating pushes via your partners? Yes. Especially with a decent portion of slots coming out of a very very recent game where you actively bullshitted your way through day 1 to a win.

[RCEnigma]

No, following that logic they aren't together. Fusco actually went the other way when pressure mounted on Baezu and bailed out of his Vorkuta push.

Ausuka I'm kind of inclined to think Baezu was a designated buss (which means more than 2 scum) or the scumteam is passively hoping the wgaon falls off. The third alternative being Baezu is just drowning town.

I could see Baezu being town without solid reasoning for their reads and they are just forcing the content because they've been put on the spot. Which makes it inconsistent.

But to be honest the main reason is the AtE just got to me.

[RCEnigma]

SS you would have to engage directly. FL isn't worth going after today. As long as I'm alive tomorrow I'll have a guaranteed read on him.

I only aspire to be the best at one thing on Mafiascum, and that is reading FL. So consider it like my life goal.

[RCEnigma]

Don't think tmi works on a blatant setup spec post. It's a reasonable assumption to make given 12 players and the 11/12 confirmation limitation.

[RCEnigma]

I'm not sure I really see the scum motivation in telling town there are only 2 scum.

I've only play 1 game with Ausuka and I defended Scum her in much the same way so take it with a grain of salt but I think she's just town here.

[RCEnigma]

Hmm fair enough, I think I get your point.

[RCEnigma]

I did meta on RCE last game and this is much more town-him.

I could probably bite into pressuring FL more. That’s not a terrible wagon.

The one you guys flash lynched me as doc? Good times.

[RCEnigma]

Dunno how j feel about this Vorkuta paranoia. You already referenced our last game and this is much the same way in which I'm dealing with FL. The difference being I didn't make it to day 2. That's why I made him pinky swear he won't kill me.

[RCEnigma]

Is it bad that I can see an RCE/FL scum pair? (+1 if setup?)

It's bad that you guys keep doing preflip associatives

Would you vote FL?

Nobody not named RadiantCowbells or Rb will go after me Day 1.

That’s just suboptimal play, and those 2 are too stubborn to realize it, and it’s hurt them multiple times.

I'll incorporate the day 1 push into my meta eventually.

[RCEnigma]

Well I said I promise by day 2 so.

[RCEnigma]

I do like the deity comparisons though, my ego thanks you.

[RCEnigma]

I feel for the players that get fear reads because their scum game is good. But a good scum game doesn't make them impossible to catch.

[RCEnigma]

You've got it in the bag man, congrats on doing so well! We're proud of you.

[RCEnigma]

I have a fairly reliable tell that has remained true through our recent game with RC and CoA. I'm banking on FL not figuring out what it is I'm reading him on so there's that. But I also don't think he's going to go on a meditative soul search just because I claim to have caught on to something. At the end of the day I still have to get him lynched if I find him to be scum which will be as hard, if not harder to do than just reading him.

[RCEnigma]

But you see my reasoning and why I think it's a winning scum play to earn town points by being able to deal with a really confusing slot yes?

I do like the deity comparisons though

If anything, this slight scumread is based on my

fear and despair

idea that FL physically can't be read, and anyone who claims to be able to do so is a liar.

I’m easier to read late game.

I think early game, I’d agree with that sentiment.

Tchill says that if I haven’t caught scum by the end of the game, lynch me because I’m scum.

I'd agree that's sound advice actually. We should policy that.

[RCEnigma]

Yeah what SS said.

[RCEnigma]

Run me through that read.

[RCEnigma]

I can claim if we want an activity boost.

Nah I'll just counterclaim it.

[RCEnigma]

I haven't read them and I probably won't. 26 pages is a lot :<
What was said?

Umlaut only wrote like 2 pages- are you serious?!

Ausuka, how is this not triggering your scumdar?

I’ve got news for you bud, this doesn’t work. Vedith just subbed in as town and didn’t read the thread last game we were in. FL was there, he knows.

It's nai tbh.

[RCEnigma]

This makes me want to rule out {RCE, Fusco, SS, FL} for now if we accept the premise Baezu is actually town here.

If these are all town slots, whew. Ausuka/FL/SS townblock would make me sweat as scum. Sorry fusco I think you're town I just don't know you as a player.

[RCEnigma]

This makes me want to rule out {RCE, Fusco, SS, FL} for now if we accept the premise Baezu is actually town here.

If these are all town slots, whew. Ausuka/FL/SS townblock would make me sweat as scum. Sorry fusco I think you're town I just don't know you as a player.

This could be scumRCE making a play if Ausuka/SS are also both town.

Not enough for me to push RCE today. I’ll be able to read him due to how he interacts with me later.

This one isn't the tell. Not sure if you are trying to cover your bases or this is a genuine read.

That aside I think your town pool is fine, I would probably replace one of hit or Vorkuta with like cby, or whoever replaced him.

[RCEnigma]

Do I need to lynch Ausuka?

I don't know, do you?

RCE what are your reads right now?

Ausuka/fusco/baezu/SS/cby as town or townleans

FL is in a void of his own.

I like slaxx better than siv but not enough to move into my town.
Liked Vorkuta early but he's playing at this ate game that I don't really recall from his town games.

I think my pool would probably be something like Vorkuta/alchemist/slaxx/HitAlt

I think Umlaut is the only person I'm leaving out but I have 0 read and anyone that claims otherwise is bs'ing.

[RCEnigma]

But do you know?

[RCEnigma]

Lol I like the confidence.

[RCEnigma]

Lol, RCE, pretty sure Vedith is Umlaut

I know, we're bonding.

[RCEnigma]

since the scum didn't feel like bussing (?) the wagon never went all the way through.

I'm not convinced with the argument.
I mean that should apply to me as well; I was the second person on the wagon and then unvoted off.

Or are you trying to look at the people who BOTH
-Never defended Bae
-Never voted for Bae
To try and guess who scum might be from that?

I thought of doing so, but then I got

shit on

strongly advised not to look at "pre-flip associations"

Ok- I'd like to propose a Fus wagon.
***insert disclaimer that my reads are bad and I'm not confident, but here's what I have so far.

The ISO dive shows a player that is full of filler content, anti-town in letting people get their core!town blocks up and running, and fence-sitting by trying to get others to do their dirty work for him.

-Early self vote and then discussion/dismissing/disregarding said self vote is suspicious: "Oh I self voted to spark discussion.... nvm this self vote talk is filler"
-Engages the inactive newbie (yours truly) and throws questions that serve no purpose my way that A: earn him townpoints "oh look, he's engaging people to talk" and B: earn him posts so he doesn't look like a lurker
-Claims to be a 'shitposter' which I view as insurance ahead of time for "oh my posts are bad? lawl I was just jking around"

Ignore the contentless crap and go gut him when he doesnt engage.

You wont get answers if you dont ask. Or maybe you want somebody else to ask for you? Thats a possible strategy, but not a good way to be townread or play day1.

This is really huge irony (or contrast between actions and words) IMHO, and on re-reading it a few times it almost sounds like LMAIST "humble bragging" about his own scum!fus strategy. i.e- "no one will suspect me if I tell people what I'm doing"

In addition to this analysis, he also scored a few "personal" gut scum points with me that I probably won't be able to use to convince you, but just personally ping me.

So VOTE: Fuscosco for the above, to provide a counter wagon for Baezu, and hopefully to jumpstart this game back into action.

And I try to reignite the game with a Fus push, but I feel like no one else is addressing/acknowledging a scum!Fus probability.
We need a wagon and alternative that satisfies everyone BEFORE the deadline.

Can we like... productive activity anytime soon please?

I just feel like you've been pushing this idea that the big bad bullies are pushing you around and that's why your reads are being ignored. I view you as a pretty intelligent player and don't think it suits your town game to act in that way.

[RCEnigma]

Unless you guys are planning to catch 2-3 scum today I don't think the spec is important

VOTE: Vorkuta

[RCEnigma]

Those weren't supposed to be full quotes.

[RCEnigma]

If you think he's scum sure, if not. No.

[RCEnigma]

Sure but you aren't the only slot, there are a lot of townies and I still have to read people after he flips. Unfortunately.

[RCEnigma]

Doubt Baezu gets lynched today tbh.

[RCEnigma]

Uhh, does that need to be deleted?

[RCEnigma]

I’m a day 3 IC, lynch me Day 3 if I’m not proven.

We can Lynch you tomorrow if I find you to be scum. But not day 1. I have thoughts on your slot that I won't share today. But I won't vote here.

[RCEnigma]

No worries I'll flip your wagon.

[RCEnigma]

He's claimed day 3 IC. He doesn't make it past that ever. I still intend actually read FL tomorrow and if I think he's scum then full speed ahead.

[RCEnigma]

It doesn't change the gamestate if there are 3. 5v3 vs 4v3 on day 3. 2 scum no Lynch day 1 is an extra lynch I believe? Day 5 mylo vs day 4 mylo. I'm bad though so it may be wrong. I don't like the tmi feel around the play you're setting up.

[RCEnigma]

I'm quite certain RCE is not going to be NK'ed N1, so I'm eagerly waiting for what they will give us then.

That's intentional lol.

[RCEnigma]

FL won't be nked either.

[RCEnigma]

Was that before or after Vorkuta thought you were scum with me?

[RCEnigma]

Lol I'm starting to like slaxx.

[RCEnigma]

I'm starting to like slaxx less.

[RCEnigma]

So I don't really buy into the FL-Slaxx scum team based on how 1,2,3 their interactions are. So I don't see them going hard 1v1 with each other sure (not saying they did here, just saying I think it's too basic for it to be the play) and they way they interacted was :

Slaxx: you aren't flipping your reads like you would as town.
FL: -flips reads-
Slaxx: well he did that thing I said he does as town.

FL wouldn't let scum theatre like that fly he would drive his partner into the dirt over it.

FL/Slaxx is never 2 scum. 1 between them I could see, it's still a weird interaction imo in isolation.

[RCEnigma]

Funnily enough, that way too blatant interaction is what initially pinged me.

Figured it did, it's blatant enough for FL to do it but not showy enough.

[RCEnigma]

Pre-final read: FL is doing a lot of small town in things and I want to scumread him for every one of them.

[RCEnigma]

FL shouldn't be investigated as he resolves himself. I have a solid read on him already but it won't matter till tomorrow and even then it's going to be largely ignored because he claimed for day 3 so people are gonna defend with that.

Protective should probably be on him though.

[RCEnigma]

he's not a fukkin ic.

like, i thought vedi was just going along w/it, but this, this is getting ooh

It literally doesn't matter.

Can you guys not compartmentalize?
What you should be doing is putting his claim in a box and setting it to the side. If he's scum its not important to catching his partners and shouldn't be the basis you scumhunt him on.

[RCEnigma]

I want people to read him for him, 'spec if he's half the terror people make him out to be.

You put people on a pedestal, make believe they cant be read or beaten, and you end up with nacho, tam, etc.

People have read him all game. I'll have an even better gauge with a days worth of info to work with.

Why is this even bothering you? You've spent the last of the thread dropping one liners. It's weird that FL claiming IC is what's getting you worked up.

[RCEnigma]

FL what changes in your reads if Volxen flips town?

[RCEnigma]

I ask serious questions sometimes.

[RCEnigma]

Don't know the context as I haven't read back yet but yes I've seen it in normals. I'll find a game link in a bit.

[RCEnigma]

Ok I was mistaken but in this game the IC could choose to confirm at any point in the game so I don't see why a day modifier would be impossible.

[RCEnigma]

Volxen is town, Ausuka is town, FL is town and scum biased but he'll figure it out. Alchemist would have been a way better Lynch today.

[RCEnigma]

Actually I think Vedith has a good chance of being scum too.

[RCEnigma]

I've realized that giving reads out like this towards EoD could very well get me killed so I redact all of it.

[RCEnigma]

...literally Alchemist or Vedith. I think Fusco is town for today and while I can go for an SS Lynch I don't think it outweighs what info we gain from other lynches.

Never getting my support to Lynch Ausuka today, scum can go back to the drawing board on it.

[RCEnigma]

I approve of this 1v1.

[RCEnigma]

FL is above 50% which is good enough for a day 1 read.

[RCEnigma]

Well if it's just going to be discussion on how Volxen is scum then there isn't much point and you should hammer now.

[RCEnigma]

Ask me any question I won't lie to you.

Brb, let me wikipedia some paradoxes that you physically can't answer.

But it's not though- like I swear someone promised content that they didn't deliver on, and I'd rather they did before the flip.

Are they likely to die tonight?

[RCEnigma]

Well if it's just going to be discussion on how Volxen is scum then there isn't much point and you should hammer now.

Dude

You can hammer too

Lmfao

I'm not going to hammer someone I think is town.

[RCEnigma]

Think Vedith is scum, might explain tomorrow, might die. Exciting.

[RCEnigma]

Think Vedith is scum, explain tomorrow, die. Exciting.

[RCEnigma]

Been without net for a few days but FL is pretty strong town. Just town for the wrong reasons AND happens to be way off base.

-other things I wanted to say really quick: wasn't a tracker crumb and I couldn't talk about why I thought Volxen was town because the game was still ongoing up until the hammer so I couldn't really defend him the way I wanted to. But he was playing towards what I know of his VT meta and I had just led a Lynch on Town!Volxen for similar reasons as this game. The catalyst being his activity even though I thought his inputs were solid when he actually did post here.

[RCEnigma]

idk about neighor hints and traitor janks
idk about cop innos or scum claims
i dont think its good of ausuka to have claimed a find thus far, inno or not

Macho vig implies a protective and Ausuka claiming Implies no macho modifier I don't think it's a problem.

[RCEnigma]

I think a scum flip is needed before getting into the setup. I'll spend some time later looking through the wagons but I'm also bad at it so, grain of salt. I actually think Ausukas check might be on Alchemist and not me. Makes more sense to me anyways.

[RCEnigma]

Oh, even better. We can still flip alchemist then.

[RCEnigma]

Is it around the Ausuka guilty thing? It's just boon bullshitting.

[RCEnigma]

VOTE: Vedith baaaaabyyyy shark dudududu.

[RCEnigma]

VOTE: Vedith baaaaabyyyy shark dudududu.

Could this be a bus vote?

Any vote could be, if you scumbias yourself enough.

[RCEnigma]

I think I’m willing to lynch in Vorkuta and Fuos today if I can’t get RCE. Once I’m conf town, I’ll 1v1 RCE if I don’t die tonight.

You'll lose.

[RCEnigma]

So I'm sold on your Vorkuta townread. And only because I've convinced myself that fus is scum with Vedith +1 which may be alchemist or may not be, I dunno I'm still rereading.

Vedith vs Ausuka I always side Ausuka, I think Vedith needed to cast doubt on Ausuka under the assumption she was town clearing a potential mislynch. Possibly due to capable slots being town and in pretty good standing, which makes me feel a bit better about FL.

Fuscosco's only "serious" vote was Umlaut later replaced by Vedith. Soft distancing that turned into hard distancing. The two haven't interacted since Vedith repped in.

On top of that, unless the whole scumteam piled on to the Volxen wagon fus would be the odd man out fmpov. I can't confirm myself yet but I could have the opportunity to in the future leaving fus as the outlier.

[RCEnigma]

Vorkuta townread is gone, well I've convinced myself he's town anyway.

[RCEnigma]

It’s a mixture of your hatcheting instantly once I took off my rose colored glasses, the fact you were on the final 4 of the Volxen wagon, which I now believe there’s probably 2 scum on, Vedith, Hit, Alchemist, Vorkuta were the final 4, Baezu/Slaxx were right after me, so i know those are all green bar an Ausuka/Baezu scum team, but that’s it.

You pandered at the end of the day yesterday. You make sense as the one of Hit/Vorkuta. You started to come off politically rather than town agenda’d to keep balance, which is destroyed when I flip flop, so you flailed a bit afterwards.

You were being protected by both Vedith and RCE alongside myself meaning that staying on my good side was likely a planned thing, even if they don’t end up being your partners.

RCE’s town case into losing it is looking like semi setting up distance.

My initial Vorkuta read was mostly based on me wanting you to be town and trusting your read was better than mine. You set off some alarms for me towards the end of the day starting with your push on Volxen which picked up faster than any of the other wagons day 1 and I re evaluated Vorkuta.

I've done so again with his push against fus that I don't think he's really explained enough to sway me. But I think fus+Vedith is likely scum and Vorkuta as the third doesn't really sit well with me so he benefits from that.

[RCEnigma]

Can literally anyone explain hatcheting as I've asked for previously?

A term he coined for A50 in Nk15's normal awhile back, 2058 I think.

[RCEnigma]

Wrong, large normal 216 post 2654.

[RCEnigma]

Yeah pretty much.

[RCEnigma]

Bless the rains down in Africa, we might have another vig.

[RCEnigma]

Do you have multiple shots?

[RCEnigma]

If so then the game is over anyways. No kill suggests protective got a save. Scum can't overcome 3 confirmed town when town has kp.

[RCEnigma]

I'll go after Vorkuta tbh. Think there is gonna be a 1v1 anyways.

P.s massclaim blows but eh.

[RCEnigma]

Actually if you don't have a CC it's fine by me. I'm loyal doc with a save.

[RCEnigma]

Actually that was probably a mistake. This seems really townsided tbh.

[RCEnigma]

Well, choose any one of the remaining 3 to shoot and I'll save them. If they live they're town, if they die they're scum.

[RCEnigma]

I'd just complain post game if I was scum being screwed by the setup. But double vig with loyal doc and an invest, even if it's 1 shot. Even in a 12 man setup feels...bad for scum idk.

[RCEnigma]

Well my save was Ausuka so Ausuka and Baezu confirmed regardless.

[RCEnigma]

VOTE: Alchemist

Just vig alchemist if I get lynched here.

[RCEnigma]

Yeah I'm not gated and with a vig shot we seal the game without having to worry about town dying to it.

[RCEnigma]

Tbh Vedith was my night 1 because he's generally a good N1. His interaction with SS made it possible he was vig and if he wasn't the real vig might shoot there.

[RCEnigma]

No we are lynching within me and alchemist. I wouldn't save you when we can confirm/kill by coordinating the save and shot.

[RCEnigma]

Me/alchemist is the better path for town. Still won't be saving you either way.

[RCEnigma]

But I know my alignment and lynching alchemist confirms me. Meaning going into the night the game ends with a shot on scum which I can facilitate. Meaning the 1v1 with Vedith/Vorkuta is nullified.

[RCEnigma]

Does town get a mislynch if we Lynch town and shoot scum tonight?

[RCEnigma]

I'd actually agree roleblocker is likely one of Vedith/Vorkuta. Alchemist doesn't CC me as RB.

[RCEnigma]

And RB semi prevents us from breaking the game.

[RCEnigma]

But my hesitance comes from your misreading me. Which makes me think keeping you alive just leads to my mislynch.

[RCEnigma]

Except you are ignoring any context around the 2 scum discussion and I doubled down on FL as town yesterday when you opened with your case on me.

[RCEnigma]

I've been hinting that I've stumbled into a town tell of yours and this game you played up the things that I know I have specifically told you or hinted at that I've noticed about your town game.

But I have the knowledge that I've told you these things and you could have just been covering your bases, so I remained skeptical until your tell kicked in which is usually a day 2 thing. It could be day 1 if I get into your head for a bit but there was a lot of noise tbf.

[RCEnigma]

Except you are ignoring any context around the 2 scum discussion and I doubled down on FL as town yesterday when you opened with your case on me.

Don’t worry, I’m not sold on you yet. The only combination of you guys it can’t be is Alchemist-RCE.

However, from your perspective, RCE. The entire scum team is on the Volxen wagon.

Which isn't unreasonable. Alchemist was the next in line to be wagoned and I wasn't joining on Volxen, neither was Ausuka. Getting the Lynch on Town and off alchemist is probably more important than a group association down the line.

[RCEnigma]

I'm aware, I called you town day 2. I haven't moved on that.

[RCEnigma]

RCE, you need to look for the scum in Vedith/Vorkuta, if you’re town.

Same to you, Alchemist. You guys are direct counterclaiming each other, and I honestly have no clue which of you is telling the truth.

So you’re gonna need to give thoughts on which is the other’s partner.

I don't have an answer for this tbh, both were in my Poe and I would have preferred pushing vedith earlier but I convinced myself it was fus + Vedith and that turned into a short day.

[RCEnigma]

Which is why I would rather Lynch between myself and alchemist where I don't have to guess who I think the scum is.

[RCEnigma]

No save night 1, the Ausuka save is the only one that matters.

[RCEnigma]

Dude he shot hit, if he didn't the vig shoots him anyways, no matter what we end up with a scum down tomorrow.

[RCEnigma]

Fight me.... But like, tomorrow with my not so fake red check.

Ok and then there’s this. He never makes a statement that would look like an attempt to draw a NK as an actual Doc. This makes me even more certain he had planned on claiming an investigative role but had to switch it up today.

Well Hit tried this too and well...

That's the point though. Laying low doesn't work for me meta-wise. Plus I have other games to play and I might roll doc again.

[RCEnigma]

Vorkuta you're flailing or throwing. Idk which but...this is bad as either alignment.

[RCEnigma]

I hadn't thought about it but there is really no reason for me to shoot Ausuka or Baezu as scum. Both townread me all game and I feel confident I could talk them away from "FL conf scummed him" so I just shoot FL who probably isn't getting protected with the IC gambit.

Then I just ride those reads into Mylo/lylo whichever happens.

[RCEnigma]

I looked at RCE’s ISO. Didn’t even give a read on Vedith D1 (but gave one on every other slot), then suddenly on D2 there’s a mild push there. Looks like he avoided talking about Vedith then decided for D2 he needed to distance with him.

Vedith lived to day 2 which is scum indicative and his tone/confrontational attitude were scum indicative. I don't think he really pushed a scummy agenda, based on the VC's he didn't really have to. But his play was very different than the Vedith I'm used to and I generally read him town on demeanor.

[RCEnigma]

Why would me explaining why I wouldn't shoot Ausuka be a pt slip?

[RCEnigma]

I guess the argument could be made that the save was just trying to out wifom scum. But FL was already hard pushing me as scum so that narrows saves down to Baezu or Ausuka if scum want to keep a mislynch on me led by FL open. And Ausuka is more likely to solve the game than Baezu, no offense Baezu I like you a lot .

[RCEnigma]

I looked at RCE’s ISO. Didn’t even give a read on Vedith D1 (but gave one on every other slot), then suddenly on D2 there’s a mild push there. Looks like he avoided talking about Vedith then decided for D2 he needed to distance with him.

Vedith lived to day 2 which is scum indicative and his tone/confrontational attitude were scum indicative. I don't think he really pushed a scummy agenda, based on the VC's he didn't really have to. But his play was very different than the Vedith I'm used to and I generally read him town on demeanor.

Why did you Doc him N1 then?

Answer: You didn’t.

I'm a loyal doc, he's generally a night 1 target and there was the possibility he gets vigged as well. It was between him and Ausuka anyways.

[RCEnigma]

Say it with me, LOYAL doc. Vig targets are also viable.

[RCEnigma]

Mmkay, well I don't have a problem being today's Lynch. Scum is caught.

[RCEnigma]

Lol I'll flip a table if we lose to Alchemist + FL

[RCEnigma]

Is self targeting allowed in normals? Like that mini theme was the first time I had seen it but doesn't seem like a normal mechanic.

[RCEnigma]

1 between Baezu/Siv maybe 2.

FL if you kill me tonight I'll be extremely disappointed and highly upset.

1 between Baezu/Siv maybe 2.

FL if you kill me tonight I'll be extremely disappointed and highly upset.

Don’t worry. I’ll no kill tonight. Sound good?

And I no killed Night 1, which is why I claimed Day 3 IC, because I knew I could prove myself, which I have, but people are literally pushing the notion I killed scum in this situation.

Sorry, that’s just bad.

This is why I believe Scum is informed of Vigilantes, though.

Both Vedith and RCEnigma have played in a way where I feel they’ve been fishing for Vigilantes Day 1.

Well yes, yes I was. Vig helps me break the game. Though I didn't count on vig being macho. But I probably should have considered it.

[RCEnigma]

Ausuka if you believe in me then the Lynch has to be me or Alchemist. I can sort FL through the night actions barring multitasking roleblocker.

[RCEnigma]

It doesn't matter what I think your alignment is because it can be resolved.

[RCEnigma]

We lose, probably.

[RCEnigma]

Actually that's weird to ask me. Me, you, and alchemist can't all be town.

[RCEnigma]

You can straight face 100% say that I, as scum, chose to shoot my partner, not go to Lylo today, all for the chance I’d just live?

Um...yes. it's the flashy play. It's the play you brag about post game and tell everyone you can't believe it worked. RC does the same thing and gets frustrated that people factor things like this into his range. It comes with the reputation.

[RCEnigma]

Is that unfair to be wary of?

[RCEnigma]

Why would Scum!Vedith make both docs town? Doesn't jive here.

[RCEnigma]

And if we know that one of alchemist and RCE is scum does it make more sense to vote one of those today?

I mean, yeah, we can go Alchemist today, but that sets me up for a game losing mislynch, and vorkuta’s refusing to analyze.

Why I didn't want to get wrapped up in FL vs Vedith so I believe this. At some point I'll have to get active. I'll try to get productive and really try to solve at some point but I'm willing to give FL the benefit of the doubt with the understanding that using the kind of ate he has here as scum knocks him down in my eyes going forward.

[RCEnigma]

I'll be really disappointed if you end up scum and pulled the attack on character thing. Like really disappointed.

[RCEnigma]

Niceuu sick play VOTE: Vorkuta

[RCEnigma]

Wait what did Vedith claim? Vedith and Alchemist can't both be scum and I might throw because he counterclaimed me. Is Vedith TMI'ing with the both docs town thing?

[RCEnigma]

Actually doesn't matter, Vorkuta is probably roleblocker in this scenario. [/Unvote] [/unvote].

Which means we can coordinate a shot FL. Alchemist is on Ausuka I'm on Vedith and FL shoots there. That's optimal I think?

[RCEnigma]

Wow ok UNVOTE: that was a thing.

[RCEnigma]

Oh. Not convenient.

[RCEnigma]

Fair. VOTE: Vorkuta

[RCEnigma]

Only 4 to Lynch, he's hammered.

[RCEnigma]

Savage

[RCEnigma]

Well he's alive.

[RCEnigma]

Not really, alchemist doesn't have a play outside of no kill that doesn't get him lynched. Besides killing you but you're perma doc'ed so it's moot.

[RCEnigma]

As town I think you would be evaluating around the lynch yesterday, Ausuka wasn't on it, I wasn't on it and Vedith flipped as town. There's always 1 between you and FL.

[RCEnigma]

I feel kind of pigeonholed since you are my direct CC and FL knows I'll didown him if he threw that fit as scum.

[RCEnigma]

For the record, had Ausuka died, I would have lynched RCEnigma.

Tbh I was going to be on you at first but I would have been outplaying myself I think.

[RCEnigma]

I entertained it because I didn't know if scum killing scum was allowable. I didn't want anything to do with your 1v1 in either direction. I said as much, if it wasn't Alchemist I probably wasn't voting unless forced EoD.

[RCEnigma]

I pushed town!FL day 2 because I believed it but wouldn't put it past you to orchestrate Vorkuta pushing both of us to speed that only one half of his push was distancing while the other half should clear you. Ftr I don't think that's the case, but you're now making that argument for me.

[RCEnigma]

I don’t think they all were on that Baezu wagon alone.

Why not? That's one of the things that gets me actually; the Baezu wagon was strange. It built very quickly and then just stagnated. Why didn't scum jump on the wagon? Doesn't it actually make sense, if the answer all along was that they all decided to hop on it at the start? I mean, iirc you voted with your buddies as an unit in penguin mafia, right?

Also RCE- could we hammertest FL? If we're all wasting our time I'd prefer to find out now, than in two weeks time.

I thought about it, if you're both still around I'm up for it.

[RCEnigma]

VOTE: Alchemist the final countdownnnnn!

[RCEnigma]

FL you one shot or what?

[RCEnigma]

RCE was just posturing and he didn’t believe my Day 3 IC, which makes sense.

He was playing around me all game.

Look at the playerlist, why is that strange? You are and will continue to be a priority sort.

[RCEnigma]

I don't think I'll be able to convince you I'm town I have to lean on Ausuka to do it.

[RCEnigma]

I think you have a block right now and aren't going to listen to my perspective on it. That's fair, but you know Ausuka is going to be objective (right now its in my favor but still).

[RCEnigma]

Well Vedith went, FL probably killed his partner and I went ... Well that's a big fucking play. Sounds like FL.

[RCEnigma]

But you already had your towntell. I was so conflicted.

[RCEnigma]

So I didn't want there to be a scenario scum could have no killed and frame FL. I'm not dying and FL isn't dying. Scum knows I'm doc and won't target Ausuka there.

I didn't expect Vedith to be gambiting with a fake guilty on FL so in my head if he was vig and shooting he was hitting scum. I guess I could have been on Baezu but if I was saving I would have just been on Ausuka instead.

[RCEnigma]

The Vig shot on hit and the guilty on vork sealed the game.

[RCEnigma]

I sure did.

"If RCE was town, this page is ALL town. RCE got one post here. This HAS to be scum." This was my second favorite line.

"I'm just gonna hammer because I don't want to argue with Ausuka" was the first.

[RCEnigma]

I need to kick the habit of hard-softing invest as doc. Nearly died N1 for it.

[RCEnigma]

Ausuka made herself extremely easy to get behind and push as town with some really solid reads. You're always tricky to gauge, I'm never not going to second guess.

[RCEnigma]

Well they shot SS night 1. Vorkuta was the main one trying to prevent the Ausuka/FL/me town block from forming but it was still a scum objective to prevent it.

[RCEnigma]

I think without the guilty I was already convinced VT was the only thing you could claim. Anything else was probably a scumclaim. Ausuka getting non VT might have thrown a wrench in it though.

[RCEnigma]

I need to kick the habit of hard-softing invest as doc. Nearly died N1 for it.

Yea, I read it.
You didn't get killed N1 because
1. I tried to put myself into a position where I might be tracked/investigated N1, and I wanted to be able to claim Doc.
2. I read your posts as watcher/Tracker -> no hard guilties+potential for townpoints.

Lol the post you read me tracker for wasn't meant to be a soft.

[RCEnigma]

I'm quite proud of my crumbs this game.
Especially this combo.
Shame I never got the chance to actually claim Doc.

I thought it was really clever. But when Alchemist brought it up I thought there's no way he just caught that, it had to be in a pt.