Mini Normal 2062: Erinnerungen (um game over)

[L84Dnr]

Mafia vanilla cop makes no sense here.

Why? Mafia Vanilla Cop would let you hunt town PRs, no?

Either Mafia have a RB/role cop (JOAT maybe?) Or a ninja/strongman

Ninja would render me worse than useless and is what I'm worried about. Hopefully that's Leaf's flip. JOAT could include that of course

I wasn't blocked and I'd have seen a strongman.

Mafia vanilla cop makes no sense here.

Why? Mafia Vanilla Cop would let you hunt town PRs, no?

Either Mafia have a RB/role cop (JOAT maybe?) Or a ninja/strongman

Ninja would render me worse than useless and is what I'm worried about. Hopefully that's Leaf's flip. JOAT could include that of course.

I wasn't blocked and I'd have seen a strongman.

I don’t actually think you’re scum with Vedith. I think there’s a chance Vedith is just letting us fight as scum so he gets both of us.

But ScumVedith probably calls you out on lying.

But I’m not actually doubting your watcher ability, it’s your alignment.

Interesting, because my gut instinct is that my result on Vedith was tampered with and that he's actually town. Is there nothing that we agree on?

Aside from my result what has he done that's been scummy?

So you said Ninja is what you’re most worried about, but your gut instinct was that Vedith was town? That’s not you worried about Ninja, that’s you expecting there to be a Ninja. If you were worried about there being a Ninja, you wouldn’t be clearing Vedith.

I'm not clearing Vedith. My gut says he's town but my PR says he's scum.

The PR's gave me a soft guilty. I'm simply acknowledging that my read may have been tampered with. Vedith may have popped in to say "Hi" to URAP last night for entirely innocent reasons and somebody (Ninja, Ascetic, etc...) that I can't track was responsible for the NK.

This is precisely the same line of reasoning that you've been using to infer JOATs, ascetics, blockers, stoppers, etc... so calling me for it is pretty damned odd.

Bottom line: We have soft guilties because we know that scum may have PRs that can mess with our results. The exact nature of those scum PRs isn't something that we can determine without further information, so speculating about what they might be isn't really getting us anywhere.

[L84Dnr]

Actually, that would all give us an extra PR action too.

Scum would have to try and kill outside of the PR’s or give us the flip we want.

Hardly.

Assume that I'm town and scum NKs me. Now your soft guilty looks like a scum lie and my soft-guilty on Vedith is bolstered by my town flip. If either you or Vedith is also town then it's beautifully set up for a scum win.

[Flavor Leaf]

I’m calling you out for pushing the ability that you are the one that is talking like there can’t be.

If you’re scum, literally none of that matters. I’m just basically going into all possibilities when I’m pushing you, but inferring those roles, that does nothing, but help convince people of town you.

As scum, that just doesn’t help in the slightest.

I am objectively town.

[Flavor Leaf]

Actually, that would all give us an extra PR action too.

Scum would have to try and kill outside of the PR’s or give us the flip we want.

Hardly.

Assume that I'm town and scum NKs me. Now your soft guilty looks like a scum lie and my soft-guilty on Vedith is bolstered by my town flip. If either you or Vedith is also town then it's beautifully set up for a scum win.

I’ll just target Vedith then.

[Flavor Leaf]

The thing is, Vedith gets an action too, so the minimum would be at least one town get another action, we have a confirmed townie going in, and for all you know, if you’re town,I’m the one that is killed and it sets you up for a mislynch.

[L84Dnr]

There’s also the option of looking for the 2nd scum to open up the setup more, which highest reward we figure out if there is TvT potential/ninja potential/roleblocker potential,

But the risk is we just deal with the soft guilty triangle tomorrow

This shrieks of "Please lynch anybody but me!"
Lynch L8, he's scum.
Lynch Vedith, he's scum too.
Lynch outside the soft guilties because one of them is scum.

I have to give you credit for scum hunting though. FInding 5 scum in a 4 scum game is impressive work.

[Flavor Leaf]

I flip flop a lot as town, and I’m ultra consistent as scum.

Only another town case.

I’m also feeling like you’re scum, so I’m playing in a way to beat you in this 1v1, and trying to figure out your partner.

You are just hiding behind mechanics and relying on it to do the work for you while you discredit.

[L84Dnr]

I’m calling you out for pushing the ability that you are the one that is talking like there can’t be.

Blatant misrep. I said yesterday that scum PRs were a possibility. I said that I didn't think that a powerful scum PR was likely.

I am objectively town.

LAMIOT!

[Flavor Leaf]

And you’re right. I am going anybody but me, because I know I’m town, and going anybody but me is a much higher chance of it flipping red.

[Flavor Leaf]

I’m calling you out for pushing the ability that you are the one that is talking like there can’t be.

Blatant misrep. I said yesterday that scum PRs were a possibility. I said that I didn't think that a powerful scum PR was likely.

I am objectively town.

LAMIOT!

I don’t see the misrep...? You’re saying it’s unlikely, at the point you aren’t even considering it.

You are just waiting it out rather than trying to solve and pushing a purely mechanics push.

Mafia’s a social game.

This game has so many ways to soft guilty, and strong PR’s. Scum can easily have 2 strong PR’s here.

[Flavor Leaf]

The fact you’re saying it’s not likely is ridiculous.

There was a scum Multitasking JOAT in a game I played recently. They could use 4 abilities in 1 Night.

This game has even stronger town PR’s.

[L84Dnr]

For the record, my vote has not gone far. I just don't want Leaf lolhammered until we've heard from everybody.

[Flavor Leaf]

You aren’t even looking for a teammate nor making any non informations mechanic push.

[L84Dnr]

I’m calling you out for

pushing the ability that you are the one that is talking like there can’t be.

Blatant misrep. I said yesterday that scum PRs were a possibility. I said that I didn't think that a powerful scum PR was likely.

I don’t see the misrep...? You’re saying it’s unlikely, at the point you aren’t even considering it.

The bit in

yellow

is objectively untrue. I've been pretty clear that I'm open to the possibility of scum PRs. I don't think that a multi-tasking JOAT is likely because it'd be unbalanced seeing as how town is facing 4 scum, but as I said, never second guess the Mod. Lower powered scum PRs are entirely plausible.

[Flavor Leaf]

Okay, but now you’re getting hung up on it. Your actions and your words don’t line up with that.

Your words say that, but your actions don’t, so objectively, it isn’t untrue.

I don’t think you believe at all what you’re saying.

[L84Dnr]

You aren’t even looking for a teammate nor making any non informations mechanic push.

How do you know what I am and am not doing?

[L84Dnr]

Okay, but now you’re getting hung up on it.

I mentioned it pages back. I wouldn't be talking about it now except you keep bringing it up.

Misrep on the misrep.

[Flavor Leaf]

You aren’t even looking for a teammate nor making any non informations mechanic push.

How do you know what I am and am not doing?

Because I’m at a sociopathic level of my ability to read people.

[Flavor Leaf]

Okay, but now you’re getting hung up on it.

I mentioned it pages back. I wouldn't be talking about it now except you keep bringing it up.

Misrep on the misrep.

False, this misrep calling is the misrep.

You were calling my statement untrue and a misrep, which is the actual misrep going on here.

I wasn’t wrong, you just found a loophole in the words and pushed it forward. That was the misrep.

[Flavor Leaf]

@the town people of this game - The way you can tell that L8 is scum over me is the way that we are casing each other.

L8 is casing in a way where it looks like he is trying to convince

me

that I am scum. I’m playing in a way trying to convince you guys that he is scum.

He is discrediting my attempts at helping you guys see that i am town by way of just chopping me down

[Flavor Leaf]

That’s called hatcheting

[L84Dnr]

Okay, but now you’re getting hung up on it.

I mentioned it pages back. I wouldn't be talking about it now except you keep bringing it up.

Misrep on the misrep.

False, this misrep calling is the misrep.

You were calling my statement untrue and a misrep, which is the actual misrep going on here.

I wasn’t wrong, you just found a loophole in the words and pushed it forward. That was the misrep.

OK, then you can quote the posts where I was "talking like there can’t be" scum PRs and show where I got "hung up" about them.

Quote it or eat it.

[L84Dnr]

That’s called hatcheting

Critique of playstyle as defence. That's called flailing.

[Flavor Leaf]

It’s your underlying attitude and state on the game.

Hatcheting isn’t a playstyle thing, it’s a tactic.

And I flail as town, not scum.

[Vedith]

Would a watcher/roleblocker(JOAT?)/goon/Traitor make sense here?
Given how strong town roles are maybe it's a good chance.

I'd favour a JOAT over an out right Roleblocker with rolecop and Roleblocker, plus full time watcher.

That would make sense with
PT cop
Vig
Vanilla cop
Me
Informed

All i know is there's confirmed Scum in L8 and FL unless a town Roleblocker comes to light.
As both URA and FL wouldn't have been blocked.

Right now, it feels more that L8 is trying to setup my lynch and given my modifier, I would have expected town watcher to be in line with it.