Mafia 73: NEGWLTWWWTKY - Abandoned!


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Post Post #2525 (ISO) » Sat May 31, 2008 3:04 am

Post by Battle Mage »

Xylthixlm wrote:
Battle Mage wrote:
Xylthixlm wrote:BM, what changed your mind about my argument being crap?
you dont have an argument. Your general play was crap, and i stand by that. But ive given up trying to get anything out of you. Hopefully you'll be NKed, or just lurk your way to replacement. Then we might make some progress.

BM
BM, what changed your mind about Zu_Faul being scum?
My mind hasnt changed. I still fail to see anyone providing a defence for Zu Faul. Thats gotta be the biggest tell of all. The only scenario in which he is not scum is currently being explored. Assuming nothing revelationary comes out there, i'll be re-voting real soon, dw. :D

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2020 Stats - 31 completed games:

Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4

winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%
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Post Post #2526 (ISO) » Sat May 31, 2008 3:09 am

Post by Battle Mage »

vollkan wrote:
BM wrote: Not good enough. Yes, you made the point that Zu Faul was townie. Thats nice, but i dont actually care. The important point i am drawing on, is that you had NO suggestion of why the wolves would kill Zu Faul. You invalidated your entire point by pointing out the big hole in your reasoning. You have STILL failed to recognise this, which is why i am sure you are scum. Only scum would follow ridiculous reasoning in order to defend a player, in the manner you have.
This logic makes my eyes bleed.

Because Xyl can't explain why scum would kill town-Zu, his point is invalid? The way the numbers have gone indicates that Zu is likely not wolf. If you can't explain WHY Zu would be targeted, that hardly refutes the initial observations.
In my mind, it does just that. In mafia, you can make a point about someones actions, and then you back it up with a motive. If someone makes the most retarded comment in the world, BUT there is no reason they are more likely to do that as scum than as town, then there is no motive, and it cant be considered a scumtell.

Likewise in this instance, the assumption being put forward is that Zu Faul was targetted by the Wolves two nights in a row. Now, we are analysing what incentive/reasoning the wolves would have to do so. If there is nobody who Zu Faul was especially suspicious of, and thus, no major reason why he would be targetted twice in a row, we have to assume BS.
Vollkan wrote: That said, the apparent targeting of Zu twice is a cause for concern. The only way around that I could think of would be a WIFOMY scum thinking "zu won't be protected twice".
Thats poor. Why are you stretching so far to try and defend him?

BM
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Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4

winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%
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Post Post #2527 (ISO) » Sat May 31, 2008 1:54 pm

Post by IH »

/not replaced?

Awesome.
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Post Post #2528 (ISO) » Sat May 31, 2008 1:59 pm

Post by IH »

Also, we've not sunk to listening to BM in my absence, have we?
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Post Post #2529 (ISO) » Sat May 31, 2008 2:53 pm

Post by Xylthixlm »

Battle Mage wrote:In my mind, it does just that. In mafia, you can make a point about someones actions, and then you back it up with a motive. If someone makes the most retarded comment in the world, BUT there is no reason they are more likely to do that as scum than as town, then there is no motive, and it cant be considered a scumtell.
So you're saying that the fact that you're making the most retarded comments in the world is not a scumtell. Gotcha.
Battle Mage wrote:
Xylthixlm wrote:BM, what changed your mind about Zu_Faul being scum?
My mind hasnt changed.
Really. Because it sure looked like you were assuming Zu_Faul was not scum in an earlier comment. Where was it...
Battle Mage wrote:But who makes a good lynch is quite evidently dependent on who Zu Faul was suspicious of, as obviously, they are the people who would have most cause to try to kill him, yes?
:?
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Post Post #2530 (ISO) » Sat May 31, 2008 5:51 pm

Post by IH »

Xylthim wrote:So you're saying that the fact that you're making the most retarded comments in the world is not a scumtell. Gotcha.
See Open...7 I think it was where BM tried to get me lynched, while he was town, by saying, "It's what (Forgot his name) would have wanted"
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Post Post #2531 (ISO) » Sun Jun 01, 2008 3:52 am

Post by Battle Mage »

IH wrote:Also, we've not sunk to listening to BM in my absence, have we?
No need to worry about that. :roll:
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Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4

winrate as scum: 78%
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Post Post #2532 (ISO) » Sun Jun 01, 2008 3:55 am

Post by Battle Mage »

Xylthixlm wrote:
Battle Mage wrote:In my mind, it does just that. In mafia, you can make a point about someones actions, and then you back it up with a motive. If someone makes the most retarded comment in the world, BUT there is no reason they are more likely to do that as scum than as town, then there is no motive, and it cant be considered a scumtell.
So you're saying that the fact that you're making the most retarded comments in the world is not a scumtell. Gotcha.
Not really, but i guess you can apply it to that scenario too.
Battle Mage wrote:
Xylthixlm wrote:BM, what changed your mind about Zu_Faul being scum?
My mind hasnt changed.
Really. Because it sure looked like you were assuming Zu_Faul was not scum in an earlier comment. Where was it...
Battle Mage wrote:But who makes a good lynch is quite evidently dependent on who Zu Faul was suspicious of, as obviously, they are the people who would have most cause to try to kill him, yes?
:?
*sigh*

Its a SCENARIO. Because nobody wants to give any feedback on MY point of view, i'm pointing out that, if you really believed the bs you are spouting, then there is a course of action you are following, but...inexplicably...aren't!

BM
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Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
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Post Post #2533 (ISO) » Sun Jun 01, 2008 8:32 am

Post by DarlaBlueEyes »

reading over what I've missed.. will comment later
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you done goofed.


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Post Post #2534 (ISO) » Sun Jun 01, 2008 2:58 pm

Post by IH »

I will have limited access from this saturday, the 7th, to next saturday, the 14th (which will not be lurking ZOMG).

the 7th and 8th I'm going to a two day smash tourney (melee bitches), and then that monday afterwards I'm going to the beach with my family until that friday. I may have internet access that week or not.
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Post Post #2535 (ISO) » Mon Jun 02, 2008 6:10 am

Post by Battle Mage »

geez, this is becoming the new V/LA thread. :(
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Post Post #2536 (ISO) » Mon Jun 02, 2008 10:12 am

Post by elvis_knits »

elvis_knits wrote:Before me, zu voted BM, but I think that was at the beginning of the day after he was targetted by wolves. So I think we can discount that.

Before that, zu seems to have a fair amount of interaction with vollkan, and voted bookitty (which is not flameaxe).

Interesting enough, Flameaxe/bookitty was originally NeoViper, who I did not like when I read the first six pages of this game :)
vote flameaxe
Talk nerdy to me.

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Post Post #2537 (ISO) » Mon Jun 02, 2008 10:26 am

Post by Xylthixlm »

I need to reread what I said in this game when I was paying attention.
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Post Post #2538 (ISO) » Tue Jun 03, 2008 1:10 am

Post by Battle Mage »

Xylthixlm wrote:I need to reread what I said in this game when I was paying attention.
That'll be a short reread then. 0.o

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Post Post #2539 (ISO) » Tue Jun 03, 2008 6:43 am

Post by elvis_knits »

Where is the rest of the bandwagon on BBM?
Talk nerdy to me.

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Post Post #2540 (ISO) » Tue Jun 03, 2008 11:10 pm

Post by vollkan »

BM wrote: In my mind, it does just that. In mafia, you can make a point about someones actions, and then you back it up with a motive. If someone makes the most retarded comment in the world, BUT there is no reason they are more likely to do that as scum than as town, then there is no motive, and it cant be considered a scumtell.

Likewise in this instance, the assumption being put forward is that Zu Faul was targetted by the Wolves two nights in a row. Now, we are analysing what incentive/reasoning the wolves would have to do so. If there is nobody who Zu Faul was especially suspicious of, and thus, no major reason why he would be targetted twice in a row, we have to assume BS.
False comparison.

The first logic:
Player A does retarded thing X
Player B accuses Player A of being scum for doing X
Player B's accusation fails, since Player B cannot positively explain would do X over town doing it.

I agree entirely with the above, and it has great application in relation to lurking.

Now, your second logic:
Player A suggests that the scum have done X on observation
Player A is unable to explain why scum have done X

Does this mean that A's suggestion falls flat?

I don't think so. If all the evidence attests to X happening, but you can't explain why, there are two possibilities:
1) X did not happen;
2) The scum motivation is not objectively apparent

Your entire argument here, BM, rests on presuming that 1) is the case, which I think is dubious at best.
EK wrote: Where is the rest of the bandwagon on BBM?
Sitting here in frustration at yet another flameaxe wagon for trolling
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Post Post #2541 (ISO) » Tue Jun 03, 2008 11:58 pm

Post by zu_Faul »

elvis_knits wrote:
elvis_knits wrote:Before me, zu voted BM, but I think that was at the beginning of the day after he was targetted by wolves. So I think we can discount that.

Before that, zu seems to have a fair amount of interaction with vollkan, and voted bookitty (which is not flameaxe).

Interesting enough, Flameaxe/bookitty was originally NeoViper, who I did not like when I read the first six pages of this game :)
vote flameaxe
Wait, Flameaxe was bookitty?
Vote: Flameaxe
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Post Post #2542 (ISO) » Tue Jun 03, 2008 11:59 pm

Post by zu_Faul »

Though this is an obvious bussing attempt by e_k and we should lynch her tomorrow. ;)
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Post Post #2543 (ISO) » Wed Jun 04, 2008 5:03 am

Post by Xylthixlm »

We need a vote count.
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Post Post #2544 (ISO) » Wed Jun 04, 2008 5:29 am

Post by elvis_knits »

vollkan wrote:
EK wrote: Where is the rest of the bandwagon on BBM?
Sitting here in frustration at yet another flameaxe wagon for trolling
Not for trolling.

For being Bookitty/NeoViper.
Talk nerdy to me.

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Post Post #2545 (ISO) » Wed Jun 04, 2008 6:00 am

Post by Battle Mage »

Xylthixlm wrote:We need a vote count.
why? are you having trouble counting the votes we have so far? lol
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2020 Stats - 31 completed games:

Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4

winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%
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Post Post #2546 (ISO) » Wed Jun 04, 2008 6:05 am

Post by Battle Mage »

vollkan wrote:
BM wrote: In my mind, it does just that. In mafia, you can make a point about someones actions, and then you back it up with a motive. If someone makes the most retarded comment in the world, BUT there is no reason they are more likely to do that as scum than as town, then there is no motive, and it cant be considered a scumtell.

Likewise in this instance, the assumption being put forward is that Zu Faul was targetted by the Wolves two nights in a row. Now, we are analysing what incentive/reasoning the wolves would have to do so. If there is nobody who Zu Faul was especially suspicious of, and thus, no major reason why he would be targetted twice in a row, we have to assume BS.
False comparison.

The first logic:
Player A does retarded thing X
Player B accuses Player A of being scum for doing X
Player B's accusation fails, since Player B cannot positively explain would do X over town doing it.

I agree entirely with the above, and it has great application in relation to lurking.

Now, your second logic:
Player A suggests that the scum have done X on observation
Player A is unable to explain why scum have done X

Does this mean that A's suggestion falls flat?

I don't think so. If all the evidence attests to X happening, but you can't explain why, there are two possibilities:
1) X did not happen;
2) The scum motivation is not objectively apparent

Your entire argument here, BM, rests on presuming that 1) is the case, which I think is dubious at best.
Thats weak. 2 is more of an excuse than a reason. Scum dont do things for 'no reason'. Commenting on the reason for scum actions is of course WIFOM to an extent, but in this instance, it is completely logical to see that there is a credibility issue in Hasdgfas/Zu Faul's story. Instead, you choose to claim that 'all evidence attests to Hasdgfas telling the truth', which seems rather an odd assumption-and given the likelyhood of the alternative, i still think you are stretching here.

BM
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Survived to the end and won - 11
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winrate as scum: 78%
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Post Post #2547 (ISO) » Wed Jun 04, 2008 6:08 am

Post by Xylthixlm »

BM, do you have all the information the scum do?

If not, why do you think you should be able to guess the scum's reasons for doing what they do?
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Post Post #2548 (ISO) » Wed Jun 04, 2008 6:11 am

Post by Battle Mage »

Xylthixlm wrote:BM, do you have all the information the scum do?

If not, why do you think you should be able to guess the scum's reasons for doing what they do?
some things you dont need to guess. some things just dont make sense as scum. spending 2 nights trying to kill Zu Faul is one of them.

BM
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Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4

winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%
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Post Post #2549 (ISO) » Thu Jun 05, 2008 2:44 am

Post by elvis_knits »

What are you saying?
Talk nerdy to me.

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