911: What's Your Emergency? (Postgame)

[volxen]

Almost was first but Ofrhz barely beat me to it.

VOTE: Yes Mafia

[volxen]

Sup
VOTE: No Lynch

A no-lynch on day one? So anti-town.

[volxen]

also unpack this for me: what do you think the interactions are between rooster and I, S-T or S-S?

like
- do you think we're scum together and we decided to open with him sheeping me, then us mutually agreeing it was a good vote? why is that likely, especially considering how unlikely it is a priori that we're both scum?

- do you think he's scum sheeping misguided town!me?
- do you think I'm scum and he's the misguided town? in which case your reasons for scumreading him were wrong to begin with?

I'm not really seeing which of any of these makes sense from a town!you.

A few of GL’s pushes come off as a bit reachy so far. This quote is good example

At this point in the game, it’s fairly common for people to focus on coming up with independent scumreads (and for these scumreads to change later) and not really think about partners or the scumteam together. With this in mind, I don't see why the two bolded lines can't make sense?

This push seems reasonable on a superficial level but doesn't come off as arguing in good faith

VOTE: GuiltyLion

Even if you don’t agree with his push here, why do you think it was made in “bad faith”? He wasn’t strictly talking about himself and Roster as a scumteam, he was asking Elbirn essentially why he thinks a combination of either scum!GL and town!Roster or scum!Roster and town!GL is likely. If GL is town that means he is sincere in his townread of Roster, so it makes sense for him to ask Elbirn why he thinks at least one of {GL, Roster} is scum, does it not? And how Elbirn responds to those questions will help GL to read his slot as well. He’s not suggesting that Elbirn shouldn’t have individual scumreads.

The bolded questions in the post you quoted are fine, there is nothing disingenuous about them.

[volxen]

The bolded questions in the post you quoted are fine, there is nothing disingenuous about them.

The disingenuous part is the "I'm not really seeing which of any of these makes sense from a town!you."

I don't see why the two bolded scenarios don't make sense for someone with independent scumreads on GL and roster

I think I said why it doesn't come off as in bad faith?

I don't think GL was trying to say anything regarding independent scumreads vs scumteams, just that he didn't understand why Elbirn was individually scumreading either of them. The two bolded scenarios do make sense if Elbirn is scumreading one or both of them, but GL was just asking why that was the case in the first place.

The "I'm not really seeing which of any of these makes sense from a town!you" is a bit over zealous, because it's written in such a way so as to suggest that both GL and Roster are obvtown and that this shouldn't be questioned. Obviously, that is a debatable point. I don't think I would go so far as to say it's disingenuous, if GL believes that he and Roster have both been "obvtown" then I can see town!him saying something like that. I can see all of this coming from a confident town!GL that just thinks it's "obvious" that he and Roster are both town and can't understand why Elbirn also doesn't see that.

[volxen]

I got tris/roster/elbirn/ofrhz/skitter as very likely town

volxen I wanna think is town but his townreading me was almost a little too on the nose and I wanna see some scumreads. could maybe swap with skitter but skitter has been at least unwinding some other threads in addition to hardcore townreading/defending me as well

invis I've liked his reads so far, mindmelding on read of the game feels town-indicative
insomnia has had a few genuine sounding posts
baezu has felt kinda buddy-ish at times but some of the being lost/passive vibes pure to me and not a scum front

none of those four are totally out of scum range, just not where I want to look for now. wouldn't be surprised if I'm wrong on one or a couple of them

MariaR/Yes Mafia feel like good scum candidates

Enigma isn't readable at this point

I get what you are saying here, but the thing I am most confident about is that you are town. So if I believe that you are town and agree with at least some of your townreads, then I can find scum via POE. Anyways I am a bit behind and need to get caught up.

[volxen]

I'm fairly certain that all four of {GuiltyLion, Elbirn, Ofrhz, and Tris} are town.

L-4 ym

I agree that YM hasn’t done much and has scummy posts, but I don’t like how fast the wagon built on him...

Vote Count 1.5

Yes Mafia (5)

- volxen, Baezu, tris, insomnia, Invisibility

Invisibility (2)

- MariaR, ofrhz

tris (2)

- skitter30, Yes Mafia

Elbirn (1)

- GuiltyLion

insomnia (1)

- rosterfoster

Not Voting (2)

- Enigma, Elbirn

As there are 13 players alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.

You have

(expired on 2019-04-16 23:24:30)

until the deadline.

I think there is at least one scum between volxen, tris and invisibility. Of these, which do you think is the scum?

You quoted the vote count here and said that at least one of {Volxen, Tris, Invisibility} has to be scum, so I assume you are saying this primarily because all three of us were voting for Yes_Mafia. Insomnia was also voting for Yes_Mafia here, so why was he excluded from your "at least one of these players has to be scum" list? I'm especially curious about this because you previously listed Tris and I as townreads, and yet you excluded Insomnia from this list:

Elbirn- town town town

Enigma- yikes! Now I see what insomnia was talking about...this post is scary (among others)

Ah shit, I think Enigma might be scum

nahhh im not, sorry

VOTE: insomnia
here for now is good

Why?

Do you have any other scumreads?

VOTE: enigma

yes mafia (i.e. not_mafia) is lynch bait and people are voting him because of his terrible play style rather than motive in this game

insomnia
1. i dont tr him and i dislike the ym wagon
2. his hammer threat is meh ... you claim or i vote you wahh wahh is not helpful for town, especially against a player who is playing like yes mafia
3. i agree with rooster's argument on him
4. fundamentally disagree with him on the voting "mislynch bait" d1 is townie

Guilty lion- town

Insomnia- he’s a great player and I totally thought he was town...am I misreading or misinterpreting that post? I know you were trying to explain it to me but I didn’t understand the explanation...

Invisibility- again, it feels like I’m missing something...nothing she does seems particularly townie to me

Maria is one that I can usually tell right away when she’s town and I’m not getting that vibe this game...

Ofthz is town

I really don’t like this post from roster- he’s been tunneling insomnia the whole game if you look at his iso, it’s scummy

It is town’s job to get rid of the scummiest town and it is scum’s job to get rid of the towniest.

Eh. I kind of wished that early wagon on you had stayed, but whatever. Imma just pretend the whole family emergency business didn't happen.

[vote[Insomnia[/vote]

Skitter - town

Tris- town

Volxen- town

YM - I initially put my vote on them to get some response and get them talking then the wagon formed and it felt like it might be heading towards a mislynch. They haven’t provided much content but they’re null to me at this point

;tl/dr

In no particular order

Town- {

volxen, tris

, skitter, ofrhz, Elbirn, GL}
Null- {invis, YM}
Scum - {enigma,

Maria,

roster}

VOTE: enigma

Also, in that above post you listed Maria as a scumread, and then you went on to agree with Yes Mafia that she should be the #1 protective target:

Maria needs to be protective target #1

I agree

Have you reversed your previous scumread of Maria? If not, then why do you think she should be protected?

[volxen]

UNVOTE:

[volxen]

Ofrhz- do you have a reads list?

From town to scum:

Tris, Elbirn, insomnia
Enigma, GL, roster
volxen, Maria
Vizzy, skitter, yes, baezu

Hm why are volxen and Maria pinging as scummy to you?

I'm fairly certain that all four of {GuiltyLion, Elbirn, Ofrhz, and Tris} are town.

L-4 ym

I agree that YM hasn’t done much and has scummy posts, but I don’t like how fast the wagon built on him...

Vote Count 1.5

Yes Mafia (5)

- volxen, Baezu, tris, insomnia, Invisibility

Invisibility (2)

- MariaR, ofrhz

tris (2)

- skitter30, Yes Mafia

Elbirn (1)

- GuiltyLion

insomnia (1)

- rosterfoster

Not Voting (2)

- Enigma, Elbirn

As there are 13 players alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.

You have

(expired on 2019-04-16 23:24:30)

until the deadline.

I think there is at least one scum between volxen, tris and invisibility. Of these, which do you think is the scum?

You quoted the vote count here and said that at least one of {Volxen, Tris, Invisibility} has to be scum, so I assume you are saying this primarily because all three of us were voting for Yes_Mafia. Insomnia was also voting for Yes_Mafia here, so why was he excluded from your "at least one of these players has to be scum" list? I'm especially curious about this because you previously listed Tris and I as townreads, and yet you excluded Insomnia from this list:

Elbirn- town town town

Enigma- yikes! Now I see what insomnia was talking about...this post is scary (among others)

Ah shit, I think Enigma might be scum

nahhh im not, sorry

VOTE: insomnia
here for now is good

Why?

Do you have any other scumreads?

VOTE: enigma

yes mafia (i.e. not_mafia) is lynch bait and people are voting him because of his terrible play style rather than motive in this game

insomnia
1. i dont tr him and i dislike the ym wagon
2. his hammer threat is meh ... you claim or i vote you wahh wahh is not helpful for town, especially against a player who is playing like yes mafia
3. i agree with rooster's argument on him
4. fundamentally disagree with him on the voting "mislynch bait" d1 is townie

Guilty lion- town

Insomnia- he’s a great player and I totally thought he was town...am I misreading or misinterpreting that post? I know you were trying to explain it to me but I didn’t understand the explanation...

Invisibility- again, it feels like I’m missing something...nothing she does seems particularly townie to me

Maria is one that I can usually tell right away when she’s town and I’m not getting that vibe this game...

Ofthz is town

I really don’t like this post from roster- he’s been tunneling insomnia the whole game if you look at his iso, it’s scummy

It is town’s job to get rid of the scummiest town and it is scum’s job to get rid of the towniest.

Eh. I kind of wished that early wagon on you had stayed, but whatever. Imma just pretend the whole family emergency business didn't happen.

[vote[Insomnia[/vote]

Skitter - town

Tris- town

Volxen- town

YM - I initially put my vote on them to get some response and get them talking then the wagon formed and it felt like it might be heading towards a mislynch. They haven’t provided much content but they’re null to me at this point

;tl/dr

In no particular order

Town- {

volxen, tris

, skitter, ofrhz, Elbirn, GL}
Null- {invis, YM}
Scum - {enigma,

Maria,

roster}

VOTE: enigma

Also, in that above post you listed Maria as a scumread, and then you went on to agree with Yes Mafia that she should be the #1 protective target:

Maria needs to be protective target #1

I agree

Have you reversed your previous scumread of Maria? If not, then why do you think she should be protected?

Yes I fully admit I’ve been flip flopping..I’m having a hard time telling who the scum are. Every slot has said scummy things and towny things...I think I need to witness more interactions and get more information

Baezu I still need you to explain why you thought it was reasonable to conclude that at least one of {Volxen, Invisbility, Tris} "has" to be scum based on the Yes_Mafia wagon alone. If you are town you don't know Yes_Mafia's alignment. If Yes_Mafia is scum, it's more likely that his wagon was all-town due to his scumbuddies not wanting to put him under that kind of pressure so early on. If he is town it's more likely his wagon had scum on it since he got up to L-1. Since town!you wouldn't know Yes_Mafia's alignment, I think it's a bit presumptuous to declare that at least one of us three "has" to be scum just because we all voted for him. Do you disagree?

It's also strange that you left Insomnia out of your Yes_Mafia wagon analysis.

[volxen]

Vote Count 1.4

Yes Mafia (6) - volxen, Baezu, skitter30, Invisibility, rosterfoster, tris

Elbirn (2)

- GuiltyLion, insomnia

Invisibility (2)

- MariaR, ofrhz

insomnia (1)

- Yes Mafia

Not Voting (2)

- Enigma, Elbirn

As there are 13 players alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.

You have

(expired on 2019-04-16 23:24:30)

until the deadline.

Vote Count 1.5

Yes Mafia (5) - volxen, Baezu, tris, insomnia, Invisibility

Invisibility (2)

- MariaR, ofrhz

tris (2)

- skitter30, Yes Mafia

Elbirn (1)

- GuiltyLion

insomnia (1)

- rosterfoster

Not Voting (2)

- Enigma, Elbirn

As there are 13 players alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.

You have

(expired on 2019-04-16 23:24:30)

until the deadline.

So the interesting thing here is in vote count 1.4 Yes_Mafia was at L-1 and at vote count 1.5 Yes_Mafia was only at L-2. When Baezu did her analysis of Yes_Mafia's wagon, she interestingly chose to look at the smaller L-2 Yes_Mafia wagon (vote count 1.5) and ignored the larger L-1 Yes_Mafia wagon (vote count 1.4). Which doesn't make sense -- if you really are going to try to do some pre-flip VCA, you want to look at all of the data. Why does town!Baezu focus on the smaller L-2 wagon and ignore the larger L-1 wagon against Yes_Mafia? That doesn't make sense if you are trying to draw reasonable conclusions about who may or may not be more likely to be scum. She shades the three of {Volxen, Invisibility, Tris} by saying that at least one of us "has" to be scum without mentioning the possibility of any of the other Yes_Mafia voters, {Insomnia, Skitter30, Rosterfoster}, being scum. At best it's bad VCA, and at worst she is pushing an agenda with her selective VCA to shade the three of us specifically.

This is the post I am talking about, where she did VCA based on vote count 1.5 (the L-2 Yes_Mafia wagon), but she never did VCA based on vote count 1.4 (the L-1 Yes_Mafia wagon):

L-4 ym

I agree that YM hasn’t done much and has scummy posts, but I don’t like how fast the wagon built on him...

Vote Count 1.5

Yes Mafia (5)

- volxen, Baezu, tris, insomnia, Invisibility

Invisibility (2)

- MariaR, ofrhz

tris (2)

- skitter30, Yes Mafia

Elbirn (1)

- GuiltyLion

insomnia (1)

- rosterfoster

Not Voting (2)

- Enigma, Elbirn

As there are 13 players alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.

You have

(expired on 2019-04-16 23:24:30)

until the deadline.

I think there is at least one scum between volxen, tris and invisibility. Of these, which do you think is the scum?

Then there is Baezu's whole 180 on Maria from scumreading her to thinking that she should be the #1 protective target with no explanation as to why she made such a strong change in her stance towards Maria (see posts 381 and 513 ). She previously said she excluded Insomnia from her VCA because she was townreading him (see post 611), but yet she also previously listed both Tris and I as townreads (see post 381) and still shaded both of us with her VCA. A lot of Baezu's play here just feels really off.

[volxen]

VOTE: Baezu

[volxen]

@Skitter, In post 599 you listed both Tris and Baezu as scumreads:

tris - don't understand the townreads here at all. her vote/unvote/revote on yes mafia was oppurtunistic (@ofhrz i know you don't think so, but i strongly disagree); she basically used the excuse of a pressure vote to hop on the wagon on someone that was pretty clearly not reacting to any sort pressure at that time. her trajectory on me was also quite atrocious; she went from townreading me the page before to voting me as soon as someone else did without me, like, posting in between. overall i think she's pushing oppurtunistic wagons.

beazu - the things she's saying and pushing don't really match the things she *does*. like after she voted insomnia she uses his read on enigma to push enigma herself, and she called out roster for voteparking on town!insomnia while voting insomnia herself; it doesn't really feel like her insomnia vote actually came from a read she really *believed* or *felt* since like her other reads and pushes don't really make sense when taken in conjunction with her stated scumread. i don't really feel like she scumreads insomnia so much as she used the existing wagon to find a place to slap down her vote with the most lamist of justifications. also i think she was buddyign elbirn in 184, that doesn't feel like a real thought that someone would actually, like, say

i don't think this is gaining traction like at all today but i still think this is scum so
VOTE: tris

idk if anyone wants to ask me something go for it

Why do you have your vote on Tris rather than Baezu? Tris is a widely townread player and you are clearly in the minority with your scumread of her. It's very unlikely that you could push a successful wagon on her, and you must realize this is the case based on the current state of the game. Baezu, on the other hand, is not a widely townread player and is coming under scrutiny due to some questionable things that she has done. You are currently the leading wagon at L-1 (6) votes, and Baezu is the closest thing to a competing counter-wagon at L-4 (3 votes). So wouldn't it make more sense for you to be voting for Baezu rather than Tris, given that you scumread both slots? Because your vote for Tris is really a vanity wagon at this point.

[volxen]

VOTE: Baezu

Baezu is at L-1.

[volxen]

As I’ve said before, it’s possible that it’s not Volxen but Baezu. But Volxen town gives Baezu scum while I don’t think the converse is true.

Roster you need to think about things logically. If I Skitter and I were scum together and Baezu was town, we could have most likely gotten Baezu mislynched on day one by having Skitter fakeclaim a town power role. If Skitter fakeclaimed a TPR and didn't get CC'd, then 99% of the time Baezu would have been lynched, because Baezu was the counter-wagon to Skitter. If Skitter did get CC'd, at least we would have known the identify of a town power role.

Skitter fakeclaimed VT, and she must have realized that would seal her fate. So the question is why didn't she fakeclaim a TPR and shift attention away from herself and towards Baezu? If Skitter and Baezu are scum together, then her fakeclaiming VT makes sense. Skitter was already under a lot of heat and probably figured she would get lynched at some point anyways, and so she fakeclaimed VT so as to not draw attention to Baezu.

From your perspective, if you are town, scum!Baezu should make a lot more sense to you than scum!Volxen, and you shouldn't be advocating for my lynch just so you can use my flip to help you determine Baezu's alignment. You should be able to judge Baezu's alignment based on her gameplay and her interactions with Skitter. Your play here doesn't make sense if you are town.

[volxen]

Good game all! I'm glad I revealed my night actions to Invisibility in the neighborhood PT before I got nightkilled so Rosterfoster could become confirmed town. I knew scum would try to push his mislynch after I died.

Tris, you gave an amazing performance in this game! I didn't reveal my role to you and Invisibility until after the deadline for night two actions passed -- did you already suspect that I was a town power role at that point?