911: What's Your Emergency? (Postgame)

[tris]

Sup
VOTE: No Lynch

hmm.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

VOTE: ofrhz The way you voted was very scummy.

[tris]

Just look at this.

VOTE: enigma

Isn't it obvious?

[tris]

Just look at this.

VOTE: enigma

Isn't it obvious?

not even remotely
it was a pretty standard first-vote rvs vote imo and i don't know what about it you're finding scummy

It's the same reasoning as last game.

[tris]

The emergency is that people aren't voting for ofrhz. If people could just do that, we could have a day 1 scum lynch.

[tris]

VOTE: tris

Hi

[tris]

What's it about Baezu?

[tris]

Just look at this.

VOTE: enigma

Isn't it obvious?

it's not, so explain?

Actually, there's no reason. UNVOTE:

“The Lion is onto something”

Sheeping much?

Sheeping is good. VOTE: Baezu

[tris]

there's no better way to get out of RVS than a good ol fashioned wagon

Agreed.

[tris]

@insomnia What do you think of my vote on the wagon?

[tris]

Inno until proven guilty, there’s nothing relevant for me to join / support this wagon

I don't understand this philosophy as relates to mafia. We'll rarely have proof that someone's mafia.

several people had already posted, you didn't engage with any of them or any of the page 1 content, instead voting somebody who hadn't gotten to the thread yet

with an explanation that pinged me as awkward

So you think it’s scummy to not place a vote on the people who had already posted?

yes, vaguely. it's play that doesn't generate any information. why aren't you trying to generate information? There were lots of posts you could have done something with, 9, 11, 12, 16. those are all potential starting points for engagement (or a vote) and moving out of RVS. the fact that you chose to vote elsewhere

and the way that you justified it

(you also left my bolded here out of your question) looks page 1 scummy to me, yes.

Got it. I haven’t been on this site in awhile and back when I used to play players would crack random jokes during rvs- I see that times have changed and I’m trying to learn the new meta. I absolutely agree with you that random jokes don’t help drive the game forward, but considering it’s page 2 I figured, why not?

And fwiw I was never good at getting out of RVS

Speaking of Maria, who else hasn’t made a post yet?

People still do make jokes in RVS. In my opinion, what you posted was lacking town more than it was full of scum.

[tris]

RVS = random voting stage ???

Ummm yeah? This is why I don’t scum hunt in RVS. This is why I vote people who stack up in rvs, especially without stating a reason for it

I don't think that's a scum thing to do though. I do it all the time.

[tris]

I took a look at some of Baezu's games, and her RVS's there seem pretty consistent with how she was here. Even sometimes when there was more relevant content to react to. UNVOTE:

[tris]

I have no time for banter, call me when we get over useless stuff.

Push lurkers.

This post is weird. VOTE: insomnia You seem to have completely changed gears here, and I don't understand why.

[tris]

Tris, not related to anything you’ve done in the game but

Are you an alt?

Yes, but now this is my main. I'm not using my old account anymore. I didn't have a ton of experience before, so I consider myself still somewhat inexperienced.

[tris]

I have no time for banter, call me when we get over useless stuff.

Push lurkers.

This post is weird. VOTE: insomnia You seem to have completely changed gears here, and I don't understand why.

How do you feel he’s changed gears?

Maybe I was speaking to strong; looking back it does seem a bit more in line with how he was posting before, but it's the sudden backing off of his push on roster, and out of a discussion which at this point was definitely not RVS anymore.

Pedit: I see he's responded.

[tris]

I have no time for banter, call me when we get over useless stuff.

Push lurkers.

This post is weird. VOTE: insomnia You seem to have completely changed gears here, and I don't understand why.

I wasn’t even looking to get roster lynched. I use voting as a pressuring tool.

Replace roster with your name, and there's your answer.

[tris]

Stacking votes in rvs on someone without posts is scummy tho

Plus, he mentioned “The Lion is onto something” not “I agree with GL’s read”, huge difference.

VOTE: MariaR

Me likey pushing lurkers

?

[tris]

Focus on other people, you’re wasting your time. I guarantee. You’re targeting two towns right now.

Do you townread Baezu?

[tris]

Baezu is town

Tris is town but has bad reads

Gl probs town has bad reads

Move on

I'd say I more simply don't have much in the way of reads yet. I'm trying to find them.

----------------------------

Not sure how to process insomnia's reactions here yet. I'll take a little break, and think on it later.

[tris]

I took a look at some of Baezu's games, and her RVS's there seem pretty consistent with how she was here. Even sometimes when there was more relevant content to react to. UNVOTE:

You meta'd someone on page 3 about their RVS behavior?

I did it to see how much her meta lined up with what she was saying in 59.

Insomnia is overly defensive but probably town

Rooster had a weird entry to the thread and I dont know why THAT wasnt the reason for insomnia's vote.

I get the impression that insomnia is enthusiastic tryhardy newbtown who demands substance for everything but he'll grow out of it I hope. I dont really agree with his reasoning but i get it from a newbtown perspective

I think I'm leaning towards this with respect to insomnia.

like if you're trying to townblock then tris should be in your townblock IMO, the fact that she wasn't is mildly sus

Why do you think she leaves me out if she's scum?

Or why you think that he "saw what you did".

well at this point he has explicitly stated that he did:

several people had already posted, you didn't engage with any of them or any of the page 1 content, instead voting somebody who hadn't gotten to the thread yet with an explanation that pinged me as awkward

Ya. I thought the same when I read it so I was happy when you had the same reasons

and since his post 30 is consistent with this explanation, I don't see a reason to disbelieve that.

Why are you townreading him exactly?

I would say it's far more important to argue for scumreads than townreads right now. If you think rooster's scum because you think he's tonally awkward, the responsibility is on you to vote him and make your case to everyone else. I'm not interested in giving reasons for my townread, I expect you will argue with them and the result will be to drag this game into a noisy disagreement that's of no real value. further, he has ~75% odds of being town in the objective sense, so to calling him scum is the claim that's less likely to be true by default and the one that requires justification.

unless/until rooster's at risk of lynch, my focus is on finding scum, not defending town.

Maria- GL is town, moving on
Also, are you planning on supporting any of your reads?

In other news- I’d like to hear more from the people who have made less than 5 posts please.

This is strange to say when you'd only expressed one read at this point.

Insomnia and ofrhz are town.
Rooster is towny
Invisibility is a valid vote as well
hm well, that was easy.

who is the other valid vote

She voted for GL in the post before.

i feel like someone comes out scummy in this gl elbirn thing but my mind literally cannot compute whats happeenenign

This post feels towny.

-----------------------------------

I think there's a lot of clashing of playstyle going on with GultyLion and MariaR. I think I just have to hear more from them.

-------------------------------------

UNVOTE:

Let me think.

[tris]

actually sorry, on second thought

VOTE: Baezu

tris your vote is still bad though

When you asked this, did you think I was serious?

[tris]

kinda yeah

like I thought the vote was serious even if you were being jokey about it, especially cause you referred to a prior game and didn't move it

but then I thought for a minute and figured you would be less likely to open so forwardly as scum and it was generating info, that's why I switched

By the way, what I was referring to there was a vote I made in RVS in my last game where I simply said "This is scum" with no actual reasons to back it up.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Invisibility:

lean town

insomnia:

lean town

rosterfoster:

I like what I've seen so far. Lean town.

Ofrhz:

Hasn't done much, but I'll say nulltown.

Baezu:

While I think her RVS behavior was NAI, I haven't really seen anything all that town from her. Null maybe nullscum.

Volxen:

I didn't comment at the time, but I agree with skitter that 11 is a bit LAMIST. A smidgen nullscum.

MariaR:

Don't really have a read here. Pending.

GuiltyLion:

His processes seem natural enough. I'm always paranoid about someone like this being scum though.

These three are just null. Need to hear more from them.
skitter30
Yes Mafia
Enigma

VOTE: Elbirn I think GuiltyLion has some good arguments. I'll join this.

[tris]

@Invisibility, do you scumread insomnia?

[tris]

It's the same reasoning as last game.

this one?

Spoiler:

This is mafia.

VOTE: Flubbernugget

i could've have sworn that we had a convo about this post last game but i skimmed the first seven pages or so of that game and i can't find your reasoning for it; were you reaction testing there?
if that's what you were doing here did you get any reads out of it?

This is what I said when you asked me in that game.

Spoiler:

Oh, I forgot to respond to your question there. I actually didn't find anything about Flubber to be scum there. It was completely RVS.

It's less of a reaction test and more of a way to just try to push things out of RVS. As far as reads, I like GuiltyLion's process with respect to it.

GL what do you think of Elbirn’s 18

ngl this kinda feels like you're trying to redirect gl's attention off of your meh rvs entrance onto elbirn's meh rvs entrance

To me it feels more like trying to understand Gl's read on her by asking about a similar case.

I took a look at some of Baezu's games, and her RVS's there seem pretty consistent with how she was here. Even sometimes when there was more relevant content to react to. UNVOTE:

idk if scum!tris goes out of her way to meta beazu's past games in order to justify a p3 unvote

I think I might. But, I haven't had experience as scum that counts for much, so I don't know.

Maybe I was speaking to strong; looking back it does seem a bit more in line with how he was posting before, but it's the sudden backing off of his push on roster, and out of a discussion which at this point was definitely not RVS anymore.

so based on 80, i think that *insomnia* thinks that votes should be used to pressure people - he initially voted roster to pressure him over his beazu vote, but once the convo had moved on from there, he felt like his vote wasn't really doing much useful in that context, and moved off. i don't think that looked at from this pov the backing off is particularly suspicious

Yeah, I've come around on this.

Insomnia and ofrhz are town.
Rooster is towny
Invisibility is a valid vote as well
hm well, that was easy.

who is the other valid vote

vizzy you're kinda pinging me as scum rn

What's scum about that?

------------------------------------------

I like 157 from skitter. Most of it syncs up with how I'm thinking. So, that's a slight nudge towards town for skitter.

--------------------------------------------

If he's not thinking about associatives between his two scumreads he's not really playing the game.

especially

as he's moving from one to another

I don't think this is fair on day 1. People can be independently scummy.

[tris]

also unpack this for me: what do you think the interactions are between rooster and I, S-T or S-S?

like
- do you think we're scum together and we decided to open with him sheeping me, then us mutually agreeing it was a good vote? why is that likely, especially considering how unlikely it is a priori that we're both scum?

- do you think he's scum sheeping misguided town!me?
- do you think I'm scum and he's the misguided town? in which case your reasons for scumreading him were wrong to begin with?

I'm not really seeing which of any of these makes sense from a town!you.

A few of GL’s pushes come off as a bit reachy so far. This quote is good example

At this point in the game, it’s fairly common for people to focus on coming up with independent scumreads (and for these scumreads to change later) and not really think about partners or the scumteam together. With this in mind, I don't see why the two bolded lines can't make sense?

This push seems reasonable on a superficial level but doesn't come off as arguing in good faith

VOTE: GuiltyLion

Yeah, I think this one of GL's more dubious cases.

[tris]

UNVOTE:

VOTE: enigma
nvm figured it out myself

Why this vote?

uh
Town -
Townlean - Elbirn, tris, GuiltyLion, rosterfoster, Baezu
Null - skitter30, Enigma, ofrhz, MariaR
Scumlean - Insomnia, volxen, Yes Mafia
Scum -
I can post reasons later when I don’t want to conserve battery but a lot of it is how I felt when reading posts i think trusting my gut is a more rational thing than I used to think so I’m not just straight up denyingg less concrete reads.

I'm curious about your reads on Baezu and Insomnia.

----------------------------------

I'd like to hear more about why Insomnia is scummy. I gut put him as town based on one post, but now there's this wagon without much explanation.

------------------------------------------

I think theres scum in at least 1 of insomnia/gl/rooster/skittles

You wanna say more? VOTE: Yes Mafia

[tris]

jack s word?

[tris]

Oh wait, I see.

[tris]

Why did you choose enigma over say volxen?

[tris]

UNVOTE:

Oh, I was not paying attention to the vote count!

[tris]

Actually, VOTE: Yes Mafia It's L-2 now so I'm not worried about an early lynch.

[tris]

Elbirn- are you and I the only ones writing more than three words in our posts? What’s going on here town?

What are you so confused about?

[tris]

I just wanted to hear more from em.

[tris]

Maybe I left tris out for a reason.

Is there a reason you'd like to share now?

[tris]

What were you scum reading me for at that point?

[tris]

And I think that's largely where we are at. I'm having difficulty seeing where you're coming from on this because, stating the obvious, you and I have radically different play styles, and I've attributed you making a mountain out of a molehill to being disingenuous when no you're just like this.

elbirn this bit is reminding me a bit of last game where you were having a hard time with ank because you couldn't understand her solve or where she was coming from

i guess the difference between that game and this game is that here you seem so much more .... frustrated? angrier almost? and i'm not sure where this is stemming from

I'm kind of thinking it's town. I've never seen scum!elbirn though.

------------------------------------------------------

Wait, it says in this game that Yes Mafia is a hydra?

-----------------------------------------------------

a) why are you voting yes mafia rn?

I was unsatisfied with 185 and wanted to push em to say more.

b) this post feels like you want to keep the numbers on the wagon up but don't want to be held responsible for a lynch happening

I just don't want a quick lynch. Also I don't necessarily scumread Yes. I just wanted to put pressure on em. Didn't realize there were so many votes already.

Yes is in a pile of nulls that I want to sort.

Pedit: interesting post by insomnia

[tris]

I agree with MariaR, but YM voted for a no-lynch and then voted to lynch me when I was being pressured

Why’d you do that YM?

Skitter, I’ve been playing since the middle of february on site and off-site I have a lot of years of Town of Salem

This is going to be one of my bad games cuz I got tunneled and I couldn’t focus on actual scum

YM is a good vote for the simple reason that he’s far scummier than I am and for the that no-lynch vote followed by mine.

Aleo, his scum reads are pretty bad and he has only 3 posts if I’m not mistaken

It is town’s job to get rid of the scummiest town and it is scum’s job to get rid of the towniest.

I’ll wait 24 hrs for a claim from Ym and then I’m voting.

You know it's not L-1.

[tris]

Then, why do you need em to claim?

[tris]

@ofrhz, why do you scumread Invisible?

[tris]

I'm suddenly feeling a bit to tired to focus right now. Goodnight.

[tris]

I'm not townreading skitter yet, which is concerning

Long summary short is that she would be posting more frequently and engaging directly with people in a real-time manner if she were town

This makes sense to me based on the game I played with her recently, and what I've seen of her elsewhere. I did get slight townpings off of a post earlier, but I would like to see something a bit more. She is a player I want to townread because she's a good town player.

[tris]

Hmm

VOTE: Invisibility

Pedit: What...

[tris]

???

[tris]

Why aren't you voting anyone Elbrin?

[tris]

I dont really feel like it

Which is probably a hint that I need to try harder

I dont actually have confidence in anyone being scum

Just a bunch of fledgling townreads and lurkers I want to talk more

This seems town.

why did tris vote me

like this

and not unvote
I voted volxen because he shaded someone early then did jack s word

I originally was making a vote for you, but in the preview I saw Yes come in, and I edited it.

I got tris/roster/elbirn/ofrhz/skitter as very likely town

I agree with this list mostly. I'm a bit lower on skitter though. I wouldn't call her very likely town.

.....Eh.

Playing poorly =/= being scum

I want to lynch the latter, not people who are guilty of the former.

Your idea is well intentioned but I can already imagine that YM is going to be the inevitable low charisma/lurker/"Bad at mafia" Day 1 "Compromise" lynch (tm) and I'd rather spend this day phase....not on that.

I am a bit worried about that myself, but I unsure of where else to go at the moment.

------------------------------------

I don't think Enigma is a good vote. Either they'll show up and produce content to read, or they'll be replaced.

-------------------------------

YM you have (expired on 2019-04-07 01:02:59) to claim

Or I’m giving you the almighty hammer

You're already voting em...

-------------------------------------

I'm gonna think about if I should keep my vote on yes or move it.

[tris]

YM you have (expired on 2019-04-07 01:02:59) to claim

Or I’m giving you the almighty hammer

Oooo really not liking this post.

1) you’re already voting him
2) you can’t hammer because he’s at L-2.

So basically you’re just trying to out a role claim?!

Not cool, my esteemed friend

VOTE: insomnia

This seems like an easy vote to make.

I just don't want a quick lynch. Also I don't necessarily scumread Yes. I just wanted to put pressure on em. Didn't realize there were so many votes already.

Yes is in a pile of nulls that I want to sort.

yeah so like this is the bit that i'm having trouble with
i don't get why you're ok with being on his l-2 wagon but not with being on his l-1 wagon if you want to presure him. if your'e just going to unvote if he gets to l-1 it kinda mitigates the pressure on him since you've broadcasted that you're going to unovte if another vote happens

My unvote was more of a reaction to seeing that I had accidentally put Yes at L-1 without realizing it and without announcing it. I wasn't opposed to it being brought to L-1 as long as people are aware of the fact.

why did tris vote me

like this

and not unvote
I voted volxen because he shaded someone early then did jack s word

ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
VOTE: yes
don’t claim or I will suck your shoes like pasta

vizzy you're votes this game are all really awkward. and like awkwardly timed too.
you just placed him at l-1 here (after saying you were willing to hammer) - why are you telling him not to claim? if you want him lynched i think it would be a lot better to get a claim first. if you're telling him not to claim because you dont' want the wagon to get lynched why did you l-1 him?

That was L-2.

I am a bit worried about that myself, but I unsure of where else to go at the moment.

I don't think Enigma is a good vote. Either they'll show up and produce content to read, or they'll be replaced.

isn't your vote on yes mafia basically a pressure vote? what's the difference between voting yes mafia and engima rn

Because Yes was around while enigma wasn't.

i sr gl

Explain? Because I really disagree with this one.

--------------------------------

I still think insomnia is town. Someone explain why he's not? What is the reason for this wagon?

I'm not really a fan of the composition of the insomnia wagon.

---------------------------------

How do I read Invisibility?

---------------------------------------

I don't know about Enigma. I disagree with his scumreads, but disagreement doesn't equal scum.

[tris]

With that vote on me, he can get lynched as well

Looking at his iso he’s more of a fence-sitter, he’s not game solving but rather he’s asking people questions to estabilish if that person’s push will come off as suspicious for him, he’s just waiting to pounce on someone

YM still a better lynch though

So, you're changing your read on Baezu?

[tris]

@Baezu, do you have that readslist you said you'd make?

[tris]

Enigma- yikes! Now I see what insomnia was talking about...this post is scary (among others)

Insomnia- he’s a great player and I totally thought he was town...am I misreading or misinterpreting that post? I know you were trying to explain it to me but I didn’t understand the explanation...

I don't understand what you're saying in these two.

My unvote was more of a reaction to seeing that I had accidentally put Yes at L-1 without realizing it and without announcing it. I wasn't opposed to it being brought to L-1 as long as people are aware of the fact.

were you ok with lynching him at that time?

Not that early.

Btw Skitter I do not ever recall having seen this type of convo with Insomnia before (Insomnia/Alts if you can point me to a time town you said the same I'll think), so I think it's beyond a disagreement over theory.

So, you think insomnia is faking this stance? I've gotten the sense that it's genuine. But, do you have meta contradicting that? If there is a scum attempting to clog the thread with theory discussion, I would think it would be Enigma.

------------------------------------

VOTE: Invisibility Talk to me.

[tris]

I think there is at least one scum between volxen, tris and invisibility. Of these, which do you think is the scum?

if you think it's a scum-driven wagon why are you voting there ...?

She's voting for Enigma.

[tris]

Skitter has been saying a lot of stuff I agree with. She might be town.

[tris]

There was the vote on Nimueh.

[tris]

skitter, why are you voting for Enigma?

[tris]

GuiltyLion, insomnia, ofrhz, Elbirn are all townreads.
Invisibility is tbd.
skitter30 I'm starting to lean town on.
Yes Mafia is...
I'd like to hear from Enigma on Baezu. Don't know how I'm reading Enigma yet though.
rosterfoster felt town to me earlier, but I would agree with others that 445 isn't great.
Baezu has been staying pretty null for me which could just turn into a scumread.
volxen hasn't left much of an impression on me.
MariaR, well I'll have to see what she says right now.

[tris]

I'm at one of Invis/Imson with high high thinking of it being Invis because of invis posting

and GL interactions GL/tris.

What does the bolded mean?

[tris]

So, this is who Yes Mafia is?

[tris]

They're basically people I don't townread

Why are people added to it then? Were you townreading Baezu and then you stopped?

[tris]

Skitter has been saying a lot of stuff I agree with. She might be town.

I think I say this stuff as scum.

You're probably right.

Pedit: Oh, interesting

[tris]

You know what. VOTE: skitter

[tris]

I completely read that wrong. I somehow read that as "I think skitter says this stuff as scum." As in skitter is capable of saying that as scum. Which I think is true.

[tris]

Skitter hasn't done anything that makes me feel good about her as town that strongly. There's been little things that have possibly indicated that. But, the other games I've read or played in with her has town, she's felt more town. I would like her to be town.

[tris]

@mod you have skitter voting twice

[tris]

@mod you have skitter voting twice

I think the vote on me is supposed to be roster.

Fixed it

[tris]

Skitter has been saying a lot of stuff I agree with. She might be town.

Skitter has been saying a lot of stuff I agree with. She might be town.

I think I say this stuff as scum.

You're probably right.

Pedit: Oh, interesting

You know what. VOTE: skitter

I completely read that wrong. I somehow read that as "I think skitter says this stuff as scum." As in skitter is capable of saying that as scum. Which I think is true.

no offense, but this progression on me is atrocious

You have tended to say things I agree with, but I've decided that's not enough to townread you.

[tris]

In 549 comes 5 minutes after 548, yet skitter doesn't stick around to engage with ofrhz.

[tris]

lion = seriously doesn't look like town, called mari & I scum and I know I'm definitely town

This reasoning is just OMGUS.

roster = tone & poe to be honest. This scumread I'm less confident on, compared to say, enigma, skitter, lion

What don't you like about roster's tone?

I'm fairly certain that all four of {GuiltyLion, Elbirn, Ofrhz, and Tris} are town.

This plus insomnia for me.

Yeah I still feel good with my vote

What did you think of the reads list Yes posted?

--------------------------------------------------

I'm feeling good about this wagon. I need to sort through some of the other players though. I don't have time right now, but maybe later tonight.

[tris]

tris - don't understand the townreads here at all. her vote/unvote/revote on yes mafia was oppurtunistic (@ofhrz i know you don't think so, but i strongly disagree); she basically used the excuse of a pressure vote to hop on the wagon on someone that was pretty clearly not reacting to any sort pressure at that time.

her trajectory on me was also quite atrocious; she went from townreading me the page before to voting me as soon as someone else did without me, like, posting in between.

overall i think she's pushing oppurtunistic wagons.

I wasn't exactly townreading you then. I was just considering that you might be town because you had been saying things I generally agreed with. When I voted you, I wasn't confident you were scum or anything. I wanted to see more out of you, and see how you would do under pressure. Since then, you've continued to disappoint, so I've become more confident in this wagon.

----------------------------------------

There doesn't seem to be much effective resistance to this wagon. I do believe that skitter is scum, so I wonder if there's some busing going on. Maybe scum have decided this is a lost cause. Or maybe they just haven't been very effective in getting town to join them elsewhere.

[tris]

At this point, this is the most confident I've been of a scumread in my recent games.

[tris]

After skitter, Baezu might be the scummiest. I think I'll take a closer look at her read progressions.

[tris]

I wonder if roster could be busing. Sure, he made the first vote on skitter, but that wasn't for long. Now, when he's come back to the wagon, a skitter lynch was becoming more inevitable.

[tris]

Skitter has been saying a lot of stuff I agree with. She might be town.

I think I say this stuff as scum.

You're probably right.

Pedit: Oh, interesting

Oh yeah there was also this. I think scum wants to see what Tris saw.

Why is that? So, I wouls have a reason to vote skitter? Wouldn't that ony make sense if skitter were town? But, you seem to think skitter is scum, so I don't really follow.

what the frick is a mindmeld

It's when someone else is having the same thought processes as you which indicates that they probably also have a town mindset.

I’ve been agreeing with most people’s take that

skitter has been seeming scummier and scummier,

especially the post about her not wanting to fight- for some reason this came across as genuine scum who had given up...I don’t know her playstyle but from what I’ve heard she’s apparently a very formidable player as scum so

I wouldn’t think she’d make these comments as scum based on that

Wait, are you saying she's scum or not?

[tris]

Alright, cool. Pretty sure she flips red.

[tris]

hi

[tris]

Not surprised by either of those flips.

VOTE: Baezu You mentioned earlier that your reads have been flip-floping. Could you break down why? For example, why did your read on Maria change?

[tris]

Answer for [p]687[/p]?

[tris]

687 i mean

[tris]

I've thought about roster.

[tris]

Sorry I've been a bit absent.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

@Baezu
So you go from townreading me and Volxen here 381 to putting us both in a group that you think scum is in here 456 and then you're townreading us here 746. What's going on there?

--------------------------------------------------------------------

@rosterfoster
I was being strongly townread by some players, so I would have been a harder lynch to push than baezu who I don't recall anyone townreading. Also, if volxen was trying to get his scum-partner to vote baezu to save herself, why didn't she? She just kind of gave up. That's what part of the case for baezu is; skitter didn't vote for baezu because


Ok, i'm too tired see you all tomorrow.

[tris]

Are we in 3p LyLo?

[tris]

As I remember nobody was throwing heat on Skitter till I did. If she was my scumbuddy I would have left it like that.

I'm not townreading skitter yet, which is concerning

Long summary short is that she would be posting more frequently and engaging directly with people in a real-time manner if she were town

offerz help i dont tr skitter either

[tris]

So, why is volxen scum? I think his arguments for Baezu are correct.

Pedit: hi

[tris]

Have you read anything?

[tris]

VOTE: rosterfoster

vedith sheep me senpai

I think Baezu is the better lynch. Roster could be a partner, but we have to slip Baezu first.

[tris]

VOTE: GuiltyLion

Roster join me

Can you remind me why you thought GL was scum?

[tris]

Hey Vedith!

Insomnia perhaps an outsider might see our argument as TvT?

VOTE: Vedith

[tris]

VOTE: GuiltyLion

Roster join me

Can you remind me why you thought GL was scum?

A hunch
I mostly just wanted to see if roster would vote GL, its weird that he didn't.

What do you make of the fact that he didn't?

[tris]

@Baezu
So you go from townreading me and Volxen here 381 to putting us both in a group that you think scum is in here 456 and then you're townreading us here 746. What's going on there?

[tris]

Well, uh. Ok. I would have preferred to see volxen come back first. Whatever, we'll just see the flip now.

[tris]

Turns out roster is innocent.

[tris]

Seems like a possible kill from any scum.

[tris]

Me and Invisibility were volxen's neighbors. Last night, after the deadline, he claimed to us telling us that he was redirecting roster onto Yes Mafia. If roster was mafia, then Yes Mafia would have been the kill. On Night 1, he redirected Baezu onto roster which means the mafia probably know what roster's role is now, assuming Baezu used her rolecop shot then.

From POE, I think mafia is one of {Invisibility, Yes Mafia, Enigma, MariaR}

I'm gonna take a look at each of them and report back.

[tris]

I'm sorry, I've been a bit out of it recently. I haven't read most of today yet, nor have I reviewed the players I said I would. I promise to get to it in the morning.

To answer that question I see right there, volxen claimed two-shot.

[tris]

People that are on the Inviz wagon should be on Maria. Here's why:

The night kill gives everything away. Volxen is a low activity poster and there's no reason to take him out, unless you feel like he is going to suspect you after the flip.

Here's what scum lost the chance at by killing Volxen : Shading roster of being maf

Anyone that wants to throw suspicion on somebody knows that this is the rational move to make. Keep volxen alive. Roster looked hella bad post-flip.

So, the conclusion is that scum were afraid volxen was going to out them if he was kept alive. And then you check volxen's iso and notice his case is revolved around the fact that Baezu put maria as a scum lean but agreed she should be a protected by a PR on the first night, although he called her scum.

There's no reason for a scum to kill Volxen in this scenario, unless volxen poked in the right spot. Scum!Maria made a trade-off, kill volxen but you can't lynch roster. It would've made no sense to kill volxen in here if we're talking about anyone other than the people that he suspected. I'm sure anyone in here wouldn't kill Volxen because they know he's a low poster and he doesn't have a huge impact on the game because of that.

So, the nk was made because Volxen found last scum. Miss Maria over here, to be precise.

Sheep me my dear friends, game's solved.

How does killing volxen mean roster is not going to get lynched? If it weren't for the clear, I think roster would have been a likely lynch today.

2. is there anything of interest re vizzy in the pt?

Not really.

VOTE: Invisibility

Must be one scum in the hood
Let me be dumb I'll be smart later

Better reasoning:

Volxen getting shot makes more sense if scum knows his role.

He told us after the deadline, so mafia couldn't have changed their kill in response.

You have no idea that he was gonna suspect me. No one does so this logic doesn't really apply to just anyone. Also, a 'low activity' poster (we'll get to that in a bit) like myself, it'd be suicide for me to kill Volxex. I'm not in the town core. 1 scum is alive. I can not afford if I'm scum to kill a low poster like Volxex what the last scum should've done is shoot into the town core.

Hmm, I had a bigger impression of volxen because of activity in the neighborhood. I wonder if this points to Invisibility. Being in the neighborhood, Invisibility might have seen volxen as a more threatening player.

VOTE: Vizzy

You know I think scum are much likelier to say ‘hmm’

I think I tend to say hmm.

Yeah Insomnia you should have waited with that claim. Oh well.

See I would think Maria would make the kill N1 given most people suspected Baezu immediately in D2.

I agree with this.

With the doctor + Jailkeeper, I think we almost always win. Who's next to massclaim?

I'm thinking it's Invisibility now. I think he does make sense as the killer of volxen. And, he was kind of awkward yesterday in how he avoided voting for Baezu but voted for roster for some reason.

Why did you vote for roster Baezu? I can't seem to find your reason.

I'm going to wait to vote until we're done massclaiming.

[tris]

(mis)lynch 2:
5 town vs 1 scum
4 in poe pool, 2 conf town

scum night kill (jk):
4 town vs 1 scum
2 in poe pool, 3 conf town

Why do we gain a conf town here? By my calculations, this ends with lylo with 1 conf town who will have a 50-50 chance. That's of course assuming the mafia makes it there.

[tris]

Well call me confirmed town and it's a win.

Yeah, if we can accurately townread someone other than the prs and roster, it's gg. And, I do think you're town.

[tris]

Hold on. Maria is clear. If Baezu had performed the kill, roster would have died because of the redirect. So, Baezu's partner had to do it. And, Maria was jailkept that night.

[tris]

Yeah, we were all neighbors at the start.

I guess Maria could be scum if she's a strongman. That's something to think about if Maria isn't killed.

[tris]

The possibility of strongman really does complicate things.

[tris]

Elbirn has felt pretty town to me for a while. At this point, this is my stongest non-mechanically based town-read.
GuiltyLion seemed like town to me. I liked how he was interacting with the game. And Vedith has done nothing to lose that. His voting for Baezu does not look like a bus to me.
insomnia's claim is backed up by Maria's failure to protect on night 1. Although, I guess he could be scum roleblocker. Still, the way he reacted to things on day 1 seemed like town to me.
Maria I want to see if Mafia doesn't kill her before I consider.
For reasons I mentioned before, I think Invisibility is the scum. I think I agree with whoever said that mafia probably doesn't bus Baezu there.

[tris]

According to the wiki

[tris]

Hey, Invisibility, why did you vote roster yesterday?

[tris]

VOTE: vedith
poe

So, you're thinking that Yes Mafia and Enigma are town?

[tris]

I think this is scum making a case before gathering the evidence
VOTE: roster

You know, I'm not sure how on earth I didn't see this when I was looking for why you voted roster. It's literally in the post where you voted.

[tris]

VOTE: vedith
poe

So, you're thinking that Yes Mafia and Enigma are town?

yes’s recent posting was useful and I want to reconsider that
also lol i should consider enigma

I think mafia might be more aware of possible mislynches they could push. hmmm

[tris]

I don't think mafia would push for a Maria lynch today. That would be a scummy thing to do since a doctor lynch would make things so much easier for scum.

[tris]

I don't think mafia would push for a Maria lynch today. That would be a scummy thing to do since a doctor lynch would make things so much easier for scum.

Of course they would if it means to survive.

But, I don't think it would work, and it would come off as desperate scum. I think scum!Invisibility has a better chance at just pushing a different lynch.

[tris]

VOTE: vedith
poe

So, you're thinking that Yes Mafia and Enigma are town?

yes’s recent posting was useful and I want to reconsider that
also lol i should consider enigma

I think mafia might be more aware of possible mislynches they could push. hmmm

Stop it he's already dead

What? I don't understand what you mean by this. This was a point in Invisibility's favor.

[tris]

I thought you were naysaying his side eye at enigma as being "scum aware of possible mislynches". I guess I misunderheard you

What I was getting at there is the fact that he said he was voting Vedith due to POE when he actually hadn't considered enigma. That shows a lack of awareness of possible mislynches.

[tris]

@mod Can a redirector successfully redirect a strongman kill?

No setup information that is not already available will be mod-revealed.

[tris]

I thought you were naysaying his side eye at enigma as being "scum aware of possible mislynches". I guess I misunderheard you

What I was getting at there is the fact that he said he was voting Vedith due to POE when he actually hadn't considered enigma. That shows a lack of awareness of possible mislynches.

I don't think this is enough to change my mind though. The fact that he avoided the Baezu wagon still makes me think he's scum.

[tris]

Ok, so we probably just can't lose without a scum pr messing things up.

[tris]

Oh, I am "VT".

[tris]

VOTE: Invisibility

[tris]

Well, I'm really not sure who the mafia is then.

[tris]

VOTE: Yes Mafia

I'm thinking Enigma is town.

[tris]

If we ignored all claims, I think Maria might be a scumread for me, but I don't want to lynch the doctor.

[tris]

You do realise I'm dead regardless and she can use that as an excuse to trick you. She needed me alive for only 1 night. She's a smart player and knows she can kill me and then say "I can't heal 2 nights in a row". It's true. So I'll die regardless and you won't know her alignment only if you lynch her. Which I don't think you will.

Why don't you think we'd lynch Maria if you died?

VOTE: Yes Mafia

VOTE: tris

Oh?

Something that's baffled me is the roster kill.
Like why not kill who insom said he'd jail - vedith, kill insom, or kill mari??

It makes me wonder that the scum doesn't have unlimited shot if strongman, or that they're not strongman to begin with.

Or they might want to hide the fact that they've got strongman. Rooster was a clear.

I only partly agree with Engima about the # of factors and using itt scumhunting.

Partly? To what extent do you agree, and in what ways do you disagree?

---------------------------------

I'm gonna go see if anything from Yes Mafia or Enigma makes sense as busing in the first two days. Going off of memory, Maria's interactions with those wagons made made more sense as scum compared to those two, so maybe Maria is just fake claiming, but I'm still preferring not to lynch her today.

[tris]

Yes, hi. Looking back at the first two days, Enigma is very unlikely to be mafia. He suspicious of Skitter early on, and was early on the wagon. He also floated the idea of Skitter Baezu team on day 1, and followed that up with being on the Baezu wagon on day 2. There would have to be some extreme busing for him to be scum.

While Yes only expressed suspicions of Skitter after that wagon was growing and wasn't even voting her, he did vote Baezu pretty early on day 2.

Maria really does look scummier, but I'm not comfortable lynching the possible doctor. So, I'm still voting Yes who is the least town of the other players.

[tris]

Do not like what?

[tris]

Do you think Enigma is more likely than Yes mafia?

[tris]

What about all this?

Spoiler:

i think there is someone else i want to vote for now though, someone join me on this pls
VOTE: Baezu

offerz help i dont tr skitter either

i think there is someone else i want to vote for now though, someone join me on this pls
VOTE: Baezu

UNVOTE:

Sell me

@Enigma

sorry i did see that i just havent had time these past few days to respond

i found 381 curious. it felt forced and shallow to me. i.e. i feel that as town, you want to be finding reasons to tr people, and using those as associatives to read other players. as town, you want to have reasoning for your townreads - baezu did not, suggesting tmi.

her chain of thought between insomnia and myself is weird. like sring/voting insomnia, then suddenly agreeing with insomnia and voting me whilst also in the meantime not having changed her read on insomnia. like, i honestly would not think that insomnia vs me would be svs from an outside perspective - someone else can comment, but hey... (ftr, i actually tr insomnia and think hes just bad)

a few other things from reading her iso. her reads are jumping all over the place without any explanation
e.g.
maria being read as scum then town suddenly
her thinking there is one scum in volxen/invs/trix but not furthering this, despite her volxen and trix town town town just a few posts back

alop, i sr skitter and i see the interactions between skitter and baezu as awkward and potentially partners

offerz help i dont tr skitter either

ughh sorry skitter im not convinced you are town

btw, could be convinced on a baezu wagon but thats about it

do tell

hi skitter, i hope you're not scum

anyways
VOTE: skitter

im too lazy to make a proper case atm but here are some things:
1. skitter should be able to read me better, and town!skitter would put more effort in trying to sort me but isnt doing so
2. her posting is rather inoffensive and not probing, like shes just around but not really looking for a scum team (or trying to find my buddies, if she thinks im scum)
3. awkward interactions with people i also sr like rooster/baezu
4. other stuff but im lazy

[tris]

I don't think that was busing.

[tris]

She was scum reading me after my unvote revote on Yes.

[tris]

Roster town

why is roster town?

==

And I think that's largely where we are at. I'm having difficulty seeing where you're coming from on this because, stating the obvious, you and I have radically different play styles, and I've attributed you making a mountain out of a molehill to being disingenuous when no you're just like this.

elbirn this bit is reminding me a bit of last game where you were having a hard time with ank because you couldn't understand her solve or where she was coming from

i guess the difference between that game and this game is that here you seem so much more .... frustrated? angrier almost? and i'm not sure where this is stemming from

I feel like I'm just over here trying to play a normal game

and there's at least 3 super try hards in here ready

and waiting to crawl inside everyones assholes over every bit of minutiae and I'm like fvxking ughhhhhh

does this include me?

==

guys what happened to rvs and where did the walls come from

sorry was going to read tonight but ran out of time, ill catch up over the next few days

Respectfully, you couldn't read 7 pages in the 3 hours between these posts?
I understand if you have things going on irl but please come play the game, you beetlejuicing into here and then not doing anything is a bad look

imo there were a few people who made meh-ish rvs posts similar to beazu's on p1, including you and enigma. of the three i think enigma's entrance was holistically the worst because it just ... never really developed into anything beyond that one rvs post

==

Honestly, invisibility did that too.

I’m not really sure why there is so much lurking...

i dont' think there's been an excessive amount of lurking for this stage of the game.

also can you clarify: what do you think vizzy did?

I was really just trying to engage a lurker- that was it

do u think he's active lurking?

also is yes mafia supposed to be an alt/spoof/whatever of not_mafia, because if yes that'll change how i read him

You don’t need to bugger off, it’s pretty clear you’re town and you are trying to generate activity and unify town.

I appreciate having strong players like that in my game! It’s great for town!

a) why is elbirn clearly town?
b) the bolded feels buddying-y

==

i forgot to say this this morning but i have minor townlean on ofrhz

==

I think theres scum in at least 1 of insomnia/gl/rooster/skittles

do tell
and while you're at it you can explain where you got this grouping from and also why you voted insomnia

==

VOTE: yes
ok this is a good vote

vizzy i'm not really tracking most of your votes rn

==

Yes Mafia (6) - volxen, Baezu, skitter30, Invisibility, rosterfoster, tris

i don't much like this wagon
volxen i think was an rvs vote

beazu said they voted to push a lurker but unless they think yes mafia is active-lurking this is kinda a useless vote-park because a lurker won't see the wagon-building on them; there's actual content now to engage with and to form vote-worhty scumreads on

i voted yes mafia because his vote on insomnia was kinda gross

roster and vizzy's votes were kinda bandwagon-y and i don't entirely understand why they happened

and tris:

UNVOTE:

Oh, I was not paying attention to the vote count!

Actually, VOTE: Yes Mafia It's L-2 now so I'm not worried about an early lynch.

a) why are you voting yes mafia rn?

b) this post feels like you want to keep the numbers on the wagon up but don't want to be held responsible for a lynch happening

VOTE: tris

Here.

[tris]

I should have probably spoilered that.

[tris]

If we lynch Maria and she's not scum, won't you die?

[tris]

Wow. That seems like a lot of prs, but I don't really know much about balance. I can't right now, but I'll respond to all this stuff later. Looks like we'll probably be able to narrow down who the scum is with too much difficulty since we have 3 lynches available and all these apparent prs.

[tris]

I took a look at some of Baezu's games, and her RVS's there seem pretty consistent with how she was here. Even sometimes when there was more relevant content to react to. UNVOTE:

Scummy

Why?

You wanna say more? VOTE: Yes Mafia

Defensive over Skitter being in the pile?

It was nothing about who was in the pile. That vote was because of a lack of explanation.

Yes, hi. Looking back at the first two days, Enigma is very unlikely to be mafia. He suspicious of Skitter early on, and was early on the wagon. He also floated the idea of Skitter Baezu team on day 1, and followed that up with being on the Baezu wagon on day 2. There would have to be some extreme busing for him to be scum.

While Yes only expressed suspicions of Skitter after that wagon was growing and wasn't even voting her, he did vote Baezu pretty early on day 2.

Maria really does look scummier, but I'm not comfortable lynching the possible doctor. So, I'm still voting Yes who is the least town of the other players.

You don’t have any scum reads

I was scumreading Maria, but not wanting to lynch her because she could be a doctor. She's basically confirmed now unless there's something about Elbirn's guilty that isn't lock tight.

Skitter hasn't done anything that makes me feel good about her as town that strongly. There's been little things that have possibly indicated that. But, the other games I've read or played in with her has town, she's felt more town. I would like her to be town.

This was a town lean recently before

That was because of "There's been little things that have possibly indicated that." But, I decided that wasn't enough.

-----------------------------------------------

So, Maria is clear. At least two of the PR claims have to be true. Given that, I think our chances are pretty good. Even if I get lynched, night actions can probably sort things out.

I guess it probably is Yes. I'm townreading everyone else.

Pedit: I see Enigma's here.

[tris]

something isnt making sense with this night action logic and that suggests some sort of scum pr/rb

Actually, this might make things not so easy.

[tris]

No one died?

[tris]

Just get Enigma tomorrow. He's all that's left. VOTE: tris

[tris]

I guess it could be Elbirn, but I doubt it. insomnia's jailkeep should sort it out anyway.

[tris]

What is an ambulance driver.

[tris]

Double Venge: Vedith and Insomnia

[tris]

it's over.

[tris]

I, of course, was part of my teammates' deaths.

If it wasn't for the redirection, we would have learned that implosion was jailkeeper.

Until you claimed, I was thinking I still had a chance if Maria got lynched. At that point, I was done for.

[tris]

I've decided I prefer being town.

[tris]

I think I would have killed you or Maria then. I avoiding killing Maria because I was hoping to get her lynched.

[tris]

Oh! If only I had killed Maria!

[tris]

Good game all! I'm glad I revealed my night actions to Invisibility in the neighborhood PT before I got nightkilled so Rosterfoster could become confirmed town. I knew scum would try to push his mislynch after I died.

Tris, you gave an amazing performance in this game! I didn't reveal my role to you and Invisibility until after the deadline for night two actions passed -- did you already suspect that I was a town power role at that point?

No, I just thought you were gonna be townread.

[tris]

The way I saw it, if I kill Maria, eventually the clears outnumber the nonclears; whereas, if I can get a Maria lynch after not killing her, I am in position to get to a lylo with one clear.