911: What's Your Emergency? (Postgame)

[skitter30]

hello all!

@mod

i'm always v/la on fridays and saturdays!

VOTE: ofrhz
hi hi hi!!!
it's been a while

[skitter30]

it really has been. i'm excited to play with you again skitter!

same!

Sup
VOTE: No Lynch

y tho

[skitter30]

Sup
VOTE: No Lynch

A no-lynch on day one? So anti-town.

this feels kinda lamist

Just look at this.

VOTE: enigma

Isn't it obvious?

not even remotely
it was a pretty standard first-vote rvs vote imo and i don't know what about it you're finding scummy

[skitter30]

It's the same reasoning as last game.

this one?

Spoiler:

This is mafia.

VOTE: Flubbernugget

i could've have sworn that we had a convo about this post last game but i skimmed the first seven pages or so of that game and i can't find your reasoning for it; were you reaction testing there?
if that's what you were doing here did you get any reads out of it?

==

i think gl is town

==

First statement implies - another player is scum reading someone for something, so i’ll hop on as well

Second statement implies - I have a reason for voting Baesu myself, so I’ll hop on

How is that not a huge difference? He’s stacking in rvs and advocating a potential mislynch without any reasons for voting.

I just didn’t like the sheep, you can wagon Baesu if you want

this is kinda townie actually

==

GL what do you think of Elbirn’s 18

ngl this kinda feels like you're trying to redirect gl's attention off of your meh rvs entrance onto elbirn's meh rvs entrance

note: beazu and elbirn are *prob* not aligned?

==

RVS = random voting stage ???

Ummm yeah? This is why I don’t scum hunt in RVS. This is why I vote people who stack up in rvs, especially without stating a reason for it

i kinda disagree; in the very beginning of the game i think it's important to start generating useful info as soon as possible in order to move teh game post rvs, and this often happens by forming wagons and seeing who is willing to jump on to what.
in general i don't think that hopping on rvs wagons is inherently scummy, nor do i think that roster's vote onto beazu was scummy here

==

I took a look at some of Baezu's games, and her RVS's there seem pretty consistent with how she was here. Even sometimes when there was more relevant content to react to. UNVOTE:

idk if scum!tris goes out of her way to meta beazu's past games in order to justify a p3 unvote

==

Maybe I was speaking to strong; looking back it does seem a bit more in line with how he was posting before, but it's the sudden backing off of his push on roster, and out of a discussion which at this point was definitely not RVS anymore.

so based on 80, i think that *insomnia* thinks that votes should be used to pressure people - he initially voted roster to pressure him over his beazu vote, but once the convo had moved on from there, he felt like his vote wasn't really doing much useful in that context, and moved off. i don't think that looked at from this pov the backing off is particularly suspicious

==

@insomnia how much mafia experience do u have?
also i hope everything is ok for you and your family

==

You meta'd someone on page 3 about their RVS behavior?

why are you incredulous about this?

==

Stacking votes in rvs on someone without posts is scummy tho

Plus, he mentioned “The Lion is onto something” not “I agree with GL’s read”, huge difference.

VOTE: insomnia haha lol

VOTE: Insomnia

VOTE: insomnia haha lol

VOTE: insomnia

both of these are atrocious

i think the insomnia wagon grew kinda suspiciously quickly; there's very likely scum on this wagon imo,
probably in this order:

yes_mafia > vizzy = roster > tris = insomnia

vizzy feels kinda ... shallow for him? idk the right way to describe it exactly but his first :meme: :meme: post felt almost like a parody of what i've seen him do in the past
i saw the note about being v/la for a school trip so i'm going to give him a few days and see if the shallow-y-ness stops once he has more time for this

==

It was L-2 I think.

Normally I would be ok with it but the pressure isn't going to do anything.

this is kinda townie

(unless roster is like exactly scum with insomnia which feels *kinda* unlikely given how insomnia jumped on him earlier)

==

Rooster had a weird entry to the thread and I dont know why THAT wasnt the reason for insomnia's vote.

... that *was* the reason for insomnia's vote?
kinda agree with you on insomnia tho btw

==

well at this point he has explicitly stated that he did:

ngl 46 kinda read to me as a bit buddying-y

==

VOTE: GuiltyLion
*yawn*

???? he's the towniest person in the thread rn

Insomnia and ofrhz are town.
Rooster is towny
Invisibility is a valid vote as well
hm well, that was easy.

i don't see ofrhz or rooster rn

==

This seems like TvT, tbh

UNVOTE:

why

==

I'm asking you why you're townreading Rooster, because I'm trying to sort *you*. As it stands I think you're bullshitting,

ok, why do you think gl's bs'ing on this read?

==

Insomnia and ofrhz are town.
Rooster is towny
Invisibility is a valid vote as well
hm well, that was easy.

who is the other valid vote

vizzy you're kinda pinging me as scum rn

==

tris's 139 feels kidna townie

[skitter30]

yay i'm caught up, sorry for the wall
(i'm mostly around nights/weekends now)

i'm going to go here i think
VOTE: yes mafia

[skitter30]

he's thinking a lot of the things i'm thinking as i was reading through the thread (specifically posts like 40, 44, the bit about tris in 142

i like that he's reaching out to other people and how he was trying to push the game out of rvs (as evidenced by his push on beazu for a lack of early-game contributions)

a lot of the things he's saying has the underlying current of trying to progress the game and to get people to articulate reads and to start forming towncores and it just feels to me like he's trying to get the game into a ~cohesive / game-solving-conducive~ gamestate

the way he's thinking about things is also like very nuanced/comprehensive/idk the right word but like his whole thought process seems very organic and like the things he's saying seem like real thoughts, and not ones he's making up. for the most part i understand why he's thinking things and where his trajectory is coming from and it doesn't feel fake to me

like his whole tone is kinda like 'no-nonsesne-y i'm here to solve this game' and it feels townie to me, especially since he's being kinda aggressive at pressuring people he's suspicious of. like it's not just the tone; his actions match the tone too

i don't agree with all of his pushes (like, say, the bit where he was pushing mariar for not townreading tris even though her townreads were townreading her; that's a silly reason to expect someone to townread someone at this stage) but i think he's def approachign this with a townie/solve-y mindset

i also think that his townread on roster is a little strong for what roster actually did; i kinda think that he felt validated that someone agreed with his stance on beazu, and so he then kinda gave roster a townread for like mindmelding with him there or whatever. i actually think that the way roster agreed with gl was kinda pocket-y / buddying-y (specifically 46)

[skitter30]

I think I might. But, I haven't had experience as scum that counts for much, so I don't know.

fair enough but idk if scum!you then goes and highlights that doing so might be in scumrange when you're getting townreads for it so

==

What's scum about that?

nothing in particular about that post so much as when i read that post i realized that holistically his posts were scumpingign me

==

Re: the push on Baezu - I think someone else mentioned earlier that they though Baezu's entrance was more null (i.e. "lacked town") and not really scummy, which is kind of what I thought as well. GL later said this wasn't a strong scumread though, so I don't really want to overanalyze this

i've seen more than once scum entering a game in rvs by lol-throwing down a vote and not engaging with already-existing content; it's a lot easier to make a random vote (and attribute it to rvs when asked!) than to actually engage with things as scum, and i've caught scum on this before (actually i think you were in one of those games - brass's pick your poison last year; i caught scioness saff there with that); all of beazu's, elbirn's, and enigma's entrances kinda fit that category for me, so i can understand gl's thought process there. i agree that it isn't inherently a particularly strong reason to scumread at this stage but i liked the push on p2; it was indicative of trying to get the game moving out of rvs

I'm not really seeing the bolded? I think he stated a tr on roster and tris, but I'm not sure about forming towncores or even starting to
ftr not scumreading GL for this, since it's still early, but i'm not seeing how this is a valid reason to townread him.

idk if he's been like explicitly forming a townbloc but the way he responded to mariar *not* forming a townbloc in the way he expects/wants to happen implies that he thinks that this is something townies should be doing now. and he's kinda doing it himself - he's townreading tris and pushing people who aren't (mariar, elbirn)

wrt 154 - i think he's trying to probe at elbirn's thought process, which is why he's asking elbirn about the next-step/logical-conclusions of his reads. like i think he's trying to get a vibe for how much elbirn has actually thought about this and how the roster-scumread and gl-scumread fit together in elbirn's mind by trying to get elbirn to vocalize the implications of his stated reads

i don't think people should particularly be expected to have fully fledged scumteams on p7, and i think it's just fine to have individual scumreads that don't particularly make sense togther as a team this early in the game. at the same time i think the way gl is probing at elbirn there is indicative of trying to understand if elbirn's thoughts are like ... real and make sense together or if he's just bs'ing. it might be holding elbirn's thoughts to like a pretty high standard early game but i don't really see scum motivation in it rn; i more think that gl is kinda aggressively trying to get into elbirn's head

==

skitter what the heck dude why is bad for me to say haha lol haha lol
also
can someone convince me to move my vote

idk
i've seen the meme posts before from town!you, this didnt' feel like that
idk how to articulate this better rn

[skitter30]

Roster town

why is roster town?

==

And I think that's largely where we are at. I'm having difficulty seeing where you're coming from on this because, stating the obvious, you and I have radically different play styles, and I've attributed you making a mountain out of a molehill to being disingenuous when no you're just like this.

elbirn this bit is reminding me a bit of last game where you were having a hard time with ank because you couldn't understand her solve or where she was coming from

i guess the difference between that game and this game is that here you seem so much more .... frustrated? angrier almost? and i'm not sure where this is stemming from

I feel like I'm just over here trying to play a normal game

and there's at least 3 super try hards in here ready

and waiting to crawl inside everyones assholes over every bit of minutiae and I'm like fvxking ughhhhhh

does this include me?

==

guys what happened to rvs and where did the walls come from

sorry was going to read tonight but ran out of time, ill catch up over the next few days

Respectfully, you couldn't read 7 pages in the 3 hours between these posts?
I understand if you have things going on irl but please come play the game, you beetlejuicing into here and then not doing anything is a bad look

imo there were a few people who made meh-ish rvs posts similar to beazu's on p1, including you and enigma. of the three i think enigma's entrance was holistically the worst because it just ... never really developed into anything beyond that one rvs post

==

Honestly, invisibility did that too.

I’m not really sure why there is so much lurking...

i dont' think there's been an excessive amount of lurking for this stage of the game.

also can you clarify: what do you think vizzy did?

I was really just trying to engage a lurker- that was it

do u think he's active lurking?

also is yes mafia supposed to be an alt/spoof/whatever of not_mafia, because if yes that'll change how i read him

You don’t need to bugger off, it’s pretty clear you’re town and you are trying to generate activity and unify town.

I appreciate having strong players like that in my game! It’s great for town!

a) why is elbirn clearly town?
b) the bolded feels buddying-y

==

i forgot to say this this morning but i have minor townlean on ofrhz

==

I think theres scum in at least 1 of insomnia/gl/rooster/skittles

do tell
and while you're at it you can explain where you got this grouping from and also why you voted insomnia

==

VOTE: yes
ok this is a good vote

vizzy i'm not really tracking most of your votes rn

==

Yes Mafia (6) - volxen, Baezu, skitter30, Invisibility, rosterfoster, tris

i don't much like this wagon
volxen i think was an rvs vote

beazu said they voted to push a lurker but unless they think yes mafia is active-lurking this is kinda a useless vote-park because a lurker won't see the wagon-building on them; there's actual content now to engage with and to form vote-worhty scumreads on

i voted yes mafia because his vote on insomnia was kinda gross

roster and vizzy's votes were kinda bandwagon-y and i don't entirely understand why they happened

and tris:

UNVOTE:

Oh, I was not paying attention to the vote count!

Actually, VOTE: Yes Mafia It's L-2 now so I'm not worried about an early lynch.

a) why are you voting yes mafia rn?

b) this post feels like you want to keep the numbers on the wagon up but don't want to be held responsible for a lynch happening

VOTE: tris

[skitter30]

I'm actually fine with the Yes Mafia wagon despite not being on it

I can understand the reluctance around not putting him at L-1 so early though, since that puts them in claim and lolhammer territory

Still tr'ing tris

i kinda think that yes mafia is independantly scummy but i also think that if he's town here he's basically lynchbait and that the wagon on him is atrocious. given how quickly it built i think that scum are quite ok with him getting lynched rn and that there's very very very likely scum on that wagon; that's where id' like to scumhunt rn.

i also think that it's too early to end the day rn

why are you townreading tris?
i think that her vote on the wagon was quite awful and indicative of trying to ensure that the wagon stayed within lynch-range

==

the last couple of lines of 220 are kinda townie
i don't really understand the insomnia wagon rn

==

I just don't want a quick lynch. Also I don't necessarily scumread Yes. I just wanted to put pressure on em. Didn't realize there were so many votes already.

Yes is in a pile of nulls that I want to sort.

yeah so like this is the bit that i'm having trouble with
i don't get why you're ok with being on his l-2 wagon but not with being on his l-1 wagon if you want to presure him. if your'e just going to unvote if he gets to l-1 it kinda mitigates the pressure on him since you've broadcasted that you're going to unovte if another vote happens

==

Why, is he usually an easy tr?

(i'm a she btw)

==

Long summary short is that she would be posting more frequently and engaging directly with people in a real-time manner if she were town

eh fair enough. i started a new job about a month ago and i'm mostly around nights and weekends now; the past few times i've been able to post nobody else was really around at the time that i was. hard to post in real time with people who aren't, like, around

==

UNVOTE:

VOTE: tris

explain
also are you in some way a spoof of not_mafia
also can you explain the grouping you gave earlier (me/gl/roster/insomnia iirc) - to me this seems like an entirely random list of players and i'd like to know why you think scum is here
and why are you voting tris and not one of those players

==

Skitter I know it's how you post but just sorry in advance that I will not process your walls. I would find it much easier to read the same content in 10 consecutive posts, like I do. But don't change for me <3.

sorry sorry
i try not to wall but then i kinda revert even when i go into it thinking i'll spam instead of walling

i'll try to break them up better tho

[skitter30]

It is town’s job to get rid of the scummiest town and it is scum’s job to get rid of the towniest.

I’ll wait 24 hrs for a claim from Ym and then I’m voting.

VOTE: Insomnia

@ roster i think that these two lines from insomnia probably dont' come from scum tbh
they're too 'i'm going to push what i think is right and i don't give a flyign fuck about the consequences'-y to be scummy imo

[skitter30]

Roster not you

hey did you ever say why you think roster is town?
i'm not seeing it rn

[skitter30]

It is town’s job to get rid of the scummiest town and it is scum’s job to get rid of the towniest.

Eh. I kind of wished that early wagon on you had stayed, but whatever. Imma just pretend the whole family emergency business didn't happen.

[vote[Insomnia[/vote]

It’s town’s job to get rid of scum. Telling apart scummy town from scum is the most important job.

I want to revive your original wagon which should never have disappeared.

you reaize you're voting him for having a different pov about mafia theory than you, right?
why is this scummy?

[skitter30]

why did tris vote me

like this

and not unvote
I voted volxen because he shaded someone early then did jack s word

ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
VOTE: yes
don’t claim or I will suck your shoes like pasta

vizzy you're votes this game are all really awkward. and like awkwardly timed too.
you just placed him at l-1 here (after saying you were willing to hammer) - why are you telling him not to claim? if you want him lynched i think it would be a lot better to get a claim first. if you're telling him not to claim because you dont' want the wagon to get lynched why did you l-1 him?

you know what insomnia can go back

i don't know what you mean by this

[skitter30]

ugh yes is probably doing this crap as playstyle because eogiiekejhowknwgiosbegh
UNVOTE:

VOTE: yes
voting on his own terms

and if you think this is a playstyle read why are you voting him again?

[skitter30]

I got tris/roster/elbirn/ofrhz/skitter as very likely town

volxen I wanna think is town but his townreading me was almost a little too on the nose and I wanna see some scumreads. could maybe swap with skitter but skitter has been at least unwinding some other threads in addition to hardcore townreading/defending me as well
invis I've liked his reads so far, mindmelding on read of the game feels town-indicative
insomnia has had a few genuine sounding posts
baezu has felt kinda buddy-ish at times but some of the being lost/passive vibes pure to me and not a scum front

none of those four are totally out of scum range, just not where I want to look for now. wouldn't be surprised if I'm wrong on one or a couple of them

MariaR/Yes Mafia feel like good scum candidates

Enigma isn't readable at this point

i dont' get the tris or roster townreads.
roster had like one good post (the one where he unvoted insomnia), and i don't like his latest insomnia vote

tris i feel like is ~present~ and communicating with peopel like most of what she's saying doesn't really feel townie to me? like her posts for the most part are just kinda ... there; i'm not seeing why people think they're townie (tbf i had trouble with reading her last game for just this same reason; i ultiately townread her hours before the game ended for not lolhammering in a way that would have been a scumclaim). i think her vote on yes mafia was bad

you're prob town. i'm tending town on ofrhz too
i agree that how annoyed elbirn was at you was kinda townie

vizzy doesn't really feel town to me this game at all actually. can you pont to some places you were mindmelding with him? i feel like all of his votes are awkward and i don't really understand the transitions between them really. like in general i'mnot really following his thought process or his reads or his votes. like, for example, when he hopped on and off and on the yes mafia wagon on the previous page, it didn't really make sense to me as a holistic thought process. like if he thinks yes mafia might be town but has a scummy playstyle why is he voitng for him?

insomnia is townie imo

i don't really have thoughts on volxen or maria or beazu really

[skitter30]

I think theres scum in at least 1 of insomnia/gl/rooster/skittles

YM, why these four in particular as a group? I can draw names out of a hat but that wouldn't mean much. Do you see a connection between these four that I don't?

Senor Elbirn, my lynch pool now = tris/gl/rooster/skittles/enigma/volx

y tho
like where are these names coming from
and why is insomnia no longer in the group

[skitter30]

.....Eh.

Playing poorly =/= being scum

I want to lynch the latter, not people who are guilty of the former.

Your idea is well intentioned but I can already imagine that YM is going to be the inevitable low charisma/lurker/"Bad at mafia" Day 1 "Compromise" lynch (tm) and I'd rather spend this day phase....not on that.

this is kinda townie

[skitter30]

I am a bit worried about that myself, but I unsure of where else to go at the moment.

I don't think Enigma is a good vote. Either they'll show up and produce content to read, or they'll be replaced.

isn't your vote on yes mafia basically a pressure vote? what's the difference between voting yes mafia and engima rn

[skitter30]

some initial townleads

ofrhz - meta
chicken - interactions with insomnia
tris - nothing specific, just general game play (and also 72)
maria - interactions with gl, particularly 173

thats enough on this list for now

these are kinda confusing given that your'e using associatives to justify townreads without explaining your reads on the people they have associatives with

what about chicken's interactions with insomnia are townie? why is 173 townie?

i know that enigma sometimes wont' post for a couple of days at a time from prior games; im not sure that the late entrance is inherently ai; what's more bothering me is that when he's here his posts are very lackluster.

[skitter30]

VOTE: insomnia
here for now is good

y tho
do u have other scumreads?

VOTE: insomnia

and no insomnia's town

[skitter30]

Ah shit, I think Enigma might be scum

yeah i'm kinda agreeing actually. kinda think vizzy might be also tho, but i dont' think tehy're scum together; i don't think their interactions on this page feel partner-y (specifically vizzy following enigma's vote on insomnia that quickly)

[skitter30]

yes mafia (i.e. not_mafia) is lynch bait and people are voting him because of his terrible play style rather than motive in this game

insomnia
1. i dont tr him and i dislike the ym wagon
2. his hammer threat is meh ... you claim or i vote you wahh wahh is not helpful for town, especially against a player who is playing like yes mafia
3. i agree with rooster's argument on him
4. fundamentally disagree with him on the voting "mislynch bait" d1 is townie

a) why do you think yes mafia is not mafia (i guess don't respond to this if this is not public knowledge or whatever)

b) insomnia's like .... really really townie and his push on ym is entirely consistent with how he views mafia and mislynches and lynchbait in a general sense

c) disagreeing with someone on a theoretical level doesnt' make them scum?

[skitter30]

YM you have (expired on 2019-04-07 01:02:59) to claim

Or I’m giving you the almighty hammer

Oooo really not liking this post.

1) you’re already voting him
2) you can’t hammer because he’s at L-2.

So basically you’re just trying to out a role claim?!

Not cool, my esteemed friend

VOTE: insomnia

this is bad too.
insomnia's view towards mafia is basically taht it's better to mislynch a player like town!yes mafia early on than to keep them around as mislynch bait that scum will try to lynch at game-critical moments later in the game (like, say, lylo). from this mindset of optimal mafia play, it makes sense for insomnia to push get him out of the game now, *even if he thinks he's town* (as opposed to letting his mislynch happen in three dayphases now, or letting him screw up lylo because he's still around) - and i think that despite having this pov, he'd prefer to let town!yes mafia stay around for a bit if he's a strong pr

you might disagree with him on a theoretical level but *from the pov that he's playing from* his push on yes mafia makes sense and i don't think it's scummy in this context

pedit hi ofrhz!

[skitter30]

Do you think scum-somnia would be so transparent about wanting to force role claims?

no, i don't think so

Do you think scum-somnia would be so transparent about wanting to force role claims?

no but more so, i cant see any town motivation for why he would try to force a role claim

yes, but lack of town motivation != scum, and i thtink it's fallacious to push someone for this

[skitter30]

why do you think yes mafia is not mafia

Yeah I don’t think NM is actually part of the hydra either

yeah if anything i think it might be meant to be a nm spoof accoutn but i dont' think not mafia is actually associated with it

and again how i read them would change if it is indeed a nm spoof account but as time goes on i'm not really getting the vibe that it is

[skitter30]

VOTE: enigma

[skitter30]

i sr gl and insomnia,

can you elaborate on the gl scumread please?

[skitter30]

why are you townreading tris?
i think that her vote on the wagon was quite awful and indicative of trying to ensure that the wagon stayed within lynch-range

I didn’t really see her vote that way

I think she voted to keep up the pressure on someone who was periodically popping in but not being very towny. I can see why she unvoted at L-1 to avoid a lolhammer or something, but I generally agree with not backing down from pressuring a wagon when the person being wagoned hasn’t towned it up (so her unvoting at L-1 but revoting to put yes at L-2 makes sense to me). I think her vote on yes also tracks with her statements that she had a bunch of null reads but no strong scumreads at the time.

I think she’s town because a lot of her thoughts mirror mine to the point where I think they’re unlikely to be faked

i guess i can kinda see this pov but that's def not how i read that vote; i read it more like she was trying to maintian the momentum of the wagon but didn't want to be *on it* if it ended up happening. also a pressure vote on someone who isn't here *and isn't responding in any way to the pressure* when they are doesn't really do much

ngl i don't see anything as being particularly unlikely to be faked.

[skitter30]

My unvote was more of a reaction to seeing that I had accidentally put Yes at L-1 without realizing it and without announcing it. I wasn't opposed to it being brought to L-1 as long as people are aware of the fact.

were you ok with lynching him at that time?

[skitter30]

That was L-2.

ok fair enough, i miscounted the votes; i thought it was a l-1 vote

==

How do I read Invisibility?

i'm used to town!him being very like tonally .... ~not awkward~. very free-spirited, unscripted, just saying whatever pops into his head, his thought process making sense and me being able to follow it

like i can tell he's ~thinking~ about the game and i can follow his thought process even if i disagree with it

i'm not really seeing that here

[skitter30]

I’m trying to figure out if what I’ve said was suspicious enough for a town to do a complete 180 and vote them

But, for your pleasure, my town read on him slowly but surely goes away. I’m waiting for more content from him before I can estabilish a final read

say this bit again? i'm not following what your'e saying there

[skitter30]

also i'm happy that the insomnia wagon has finally seemed to have dissipated for the most part

@roster can you talk about your insomnia read? i think they're fairly townie and i dislike tha tyou're voting him for what basically amounts to a difference in how you view mafia theory

[skitter30]

Was this the post that irritated you?

I think theres scum in at least 1 of insomnia/gl/rooster/skittles

The fact that he made a scum pool out of four random people without any explanation?

this has been talked about a bajillion times already, why are you asking about this now?
(ie did you miss when this was brought up ten pages ago or ...?)

[skitter30]

Enigma- yikes! Now I see what insomnia was talking about...this post is scary (among others)

Insomnia- he’s a great player and I totally thought he was town...am I misreading or misinterpreting that post? I know you were trying to explain it to me but I didn’t understand the explanation...

I really don’t like this post from roster- he’s been tunneling insomnia the whole game if you look at his iso, it’s scummy

.... aren't you voting insomnia?

[skitter30]

Thinking enigma is town

VOTE: invis

why town!enigma?

[skitter30]

Baezu why do you tr volxen?

Based on meta...I think his play here is town...I know that meta reads don’t really count for much so I’m definitely keeping my eye on that slot for more info as well

have you played with him before?

[skitter30]

Explain what’s wrong about it and how you deal with lack of apathy from players and their unwilligness to spew themselves town and how that makes them not a liability later in the game and argue how slots that fit into this cathegory benefit town

you guys are all arguing a theoretical difference in how to appraoch the game of mafia

having a different theory wrt the optimal way to play mafia doens't make someone scum

[skitter30]

You have

(expired on 2019-04-16 23:24:30)

until the deadline.

Like

I'll lynch YM push come to shove

But if we cant come up with anything better in 10 days that's just sad

this is also kinda townie ^^^

[skitter30]

1. they provide entertainment

VOTE: engima

i can't tell if you're voting him because you think this statement is scummy or because you think by doing so you're providing entertainment

[skitter30]

Do you think scum-somnia would be so transparent about wanting to force role claims?

But he's kind of trying to do it on the sly? Also recently fake-hammers have sounded townie, but he's doing a fake intent, which to me feels scum

???? how is he doing it on the sly? he literally demanded that someone claim within the next 24 horus because he wanted to hammer them; that's like brazen/blunt/upfront/idk the right word but like the exact opposite of sly

like where do you see 'on the sly' from; that's so completely different from how i read his tone that i'm just ??? confused where you got this read from

I always had this idea that scum are quite likely to say 'This should be lynched whethers it's town or scum, becuase they are bad.' That's where it comes from.

i mean, sure, scum can push this; it's an easy way to score a mislynch. the difference here i think is that his actions (specifically the many theoretical arguments he's been having with other people in this game) here demonstrate that he ~actually~ believes this, and that this isn't something he's paying lip service to get that lip service, he's doing what he believes to be the theoretically optimal play.

sure, we can argue whether playing this way is good or bad or right or wrong or whatever, but again, having this pov doens't inherently make him scummy and i don't like that you're pushing him over this

b) insomnia's like .... really really townie and his push on ym is entirely consistent with how he views mafia and mislynches and lynchbait in a general sense

What made him really townie? Because I'm only seeing shade on people attacking him.

his posts just ... have a ridiculously townie tone - push and transparent and 'i don't give a fuck about how i'm viewed for pushing this' - and everything he's doing tracks with the mafia philosphy he's espousing; his actions follow his thoughts; what he's doing makes sense as a holistic, real thought process.

show me an example of 'throwing shade on people attacking him?'

Btw Skitter I do not ever recall having seen this type of convo with Insomnia before (Insomnia/Alts if you can point me to a time town you said the same I'll think), so I think it's beyond a disagreement over theory.

Btw one of the people who was really pushing the theory discussion (so Insomnia/Enigma/Elbirn) is scum. Scum wants that sort of thing to clutter the thread.

So I want to lynch in those three today. I've been kind of town-reading Elbirn so Insomnia or Engima.

a) have you played in many games with insomnia before
b) bolded: no
c) why are yo townreading elbirn?
d) enigma and insomina have been on opposing sides of an argument so ending with 'i want to lynch one of those two' is meh; it feels kidna like you're leaving yourself room to vote enigma if that picks up steam

Also Skitter thanks for breaking up your posts. It brings warmth to my heart <3

um oops, sorry

[skitter30]

offerz help i dont tr skitter either

do tell

[skitter30]

I’m trusting skitter because she defended me

I have soft spots for people that rub my back

Let me know when you’re online skitter and let’s game solve

i'm catching up now and then i gotta go to sleep but i have a relatively free evening tomorrow after work

[skitter30]

I think there is at least one scum between volxen, tris and invisibility. Of these, which do you think is the scum?

if you think it's a scum-driven wagon why are you voting there ...?

[skitter30]

Yeah let’s lynch YM, wagon dissipated way too quickly for no reason

VOTE: YM

Skitter, you know who to vote :p

i can't really tell if ym's behavior is scum-indicative or indicative of having a difficult/annoying to read playsytle (whether on purpose or not is left as an exercise to the reader to discern)

i know you believe in handling lynchbait as early as possible but i don't really ascribe to that mafia philosophy; i don't really like the notion of lynching people by virtue of them probably being a liability really without also strongly believing they're scum; like i want to use lynches to *find scum*, not to get rid of people that i don't view as being helpful; it feels kinda bad to play that way to me tbh

what they've posted thus far is scummy in a vaccuum i agree but like without checking their meta idk if this is abnormal for them or not; a metadive is on my to-do list but it hasn't happened yet, sorry

atm i still like my enigma vote, but i am considering moving to roster

[skitter30]

I think there is at least one scum between volxen, tris and invisibility. Of these, which do you think is the scum?

if you think it's a scum-driven wagon why are you voting there ...?

She's voting for Enigma.

...
i could have sworn she was voting for yes mafia

ok
@beazu which of {volxen/tris/vizzy} do you think is scum and why?

[skitter30]

@tris is it normal for you to cast pressure votes (yes mafia and now vizzy)? i don't remember you doing that at all in nsg's game so much as you were being kinda hesitant in deciding where to vote iirc

[skitter30]

skitter, why are you voting for Enigma?

bad entrance; don't like his defense of yes mafia; his reads don't really make sense to me; don't like his vote/push on insomnia

[skitter30]

i like mariar actually, and how she's approaching yes_mafia - indirectly by trying to read how his wagon formed instead of reading him directly

i still disagree quite a bit with her read on gl tho, and i don't really see gl/vizzy assocaitives at all really tbh

i also feel like she isn't afraid to have hot/unpopular takes (esp. tris and gl); she isn't really modulating her opinions to match with the ones that are currently popular

[skitter30]

The other 2 reads are fence sitting town reads that he can easily flip back on when GL gets a mislynch and needs to go back on a dif vote.

this is that thing that scum frequently do where they assume that player [x] is scum first and then explain why their behavior

would make sense

if [x] were scum

unfortunately for Maria I'm not so the whole point here is invalid

also in what universe does giving reads on every player and trying to start forming a lynchpool become "posting for the sake of posting"

:squint:
i feel like there's something really wonky with this logic and i'm trying to figure out why

a) i'm not sure that this is something that i've seen scum in particular do? why do you associate doing this with scum? i feel like town scumreading people .... do the exact same thing. they think someone is scum and then explain why their actions make sense coming from scum.
like how do you distinguish between scum positing that player X is scum and then explaining how player X's actions come from scum and town believing player X is scum and then explainign how they think player X's actions come from scum?

b) like your logic is mariar posits that your scum and then explains why your actions come from scum, and your'e saying that this entire point doesn't make sense because you're not scum, and therefore it's wrong of her to push that your actions come from scum

but from her pov she doesn't know whether or not you're scum (or, at the very least, she has to say that she doesn't), so like dismissing her argument because from your pov it's invalid is kinda silly.

[skitter30]

is this like a call out or are you just hard pushing ym
you know how this is gonna look if he flips town

How’s it gonna look?

I appreciate your concern buddy, but lurkers are a threat to town if kept alive, not scum

honestly i think the fact that he doesn't give a fuck about how it'll look if yes mafia flips town is kinda townie
caveat being that i've never played with scum!insomnia and don't know if this is in his scumrange but in a vaccuum i think this is townie

[skitter30]

They're basically people I don't townread

ok.
i've played with town and scum you and i don't think that i've *ever* seen you play like this before; this is lightyears different from the town and scumgames that i'm familiar with.

so i'm kinda going with the assumption that this is an account meant to be a not_mafia spoof account playstyle type thing

if you're deliberately trying to cultivate a scummy playstyle most of the scummy things youv'e posted are kinda inherently nai imo

my problem is that the gimmick is kinda obfuscating your thougts and your reads and are making them hard to understand.

in my experience, townies playing on gimmick alts usually try to make themselves readable despite it, and i'm not really geting the vibe here; i more feel like your'e using the playstyle to allow yourself to pop in occasionally and post reads and make random votes without really holding yourself accountable to explain your thought process - when pressed you're declining to elaborate and people are handwaving this away as part of the playstyle/gimmick

[skitter30]

I honestly think vizxy is scum of those three, his posts have note realty been helping town- not sure if this is his style but I’d love to see some actual content from that slot

a) lack of town motivation != scum, and it's kinda fallacious to equate the two imo
b) i think he has content, i just don't think it's very good

[skitter30]

So, you think insomnia is faking this stance? I've gotten the sense that it's genuine. But, do you have meta contradicting that? If there is a scum attempting to clog the thread with theory discussion, I would think it would be Enigma.

I have this feeling that this stance is always genuine, but scum are more likely to

say

it than town.

honestly idk if scum are this brazen about it

[skitter30]

I mean trying to do innocently by intenting rather than just looking for a claim. IDK probably wrong word.

ok fair enough, i misunderstood what you meant by 'sly'; i don't really giving intent (ie as opposed to covertly role-fishing, which is what i think you meant by taht) was a ploy to make him look more townie while trying to force out claims

==

didn't really view 461 as throwing shade, more like he was reaffirming why he liked his wagon - all the people he viewed as sketchy were not on the wagon, which, to me at least, affirms that the wagon is somewhat more likely to be pushed by town

==

a - kind of, ongoing stuff and also his alts make it confusing.
c - the anger was real
d - yeah I mean I am. If there was a reason for that picking up steam, it might convince me.

a) kinda trying to gague how much experience with him you have and whether i think you can make a judgement on what his playstyle is like; this wasn't a particularly useful answer but i'm not sure i can actually get anything else out of this line of questining. i still think that his 'i don't give a fuck'-ness is more likely to come from town than scum
d) idk i don't like that you're fine with lynching on either side of the insomnia/enigma argument, feels kinda fence-sitty to me tbh

[skitter30]

I'm also getting bad feels from how vigorously Skitter is defending Insomnia. Possible pocketing of Insomnia actually.

no, i'm defending him because the pushes on him are bad and you should feel bad

[skitter30]

Skitter has been saying a lot of stuff I agree with. She might be town.

Skitter has been saying a lot of stuff I agree with. She might be town.

I think I say this stuff as scum.

You're probably right.

Pedit: Oh, interesting

You know what. VOTE: skitter

I completely read that wrong. I somehow read that as "I think skitter says this stuff as scum." As in skitter is capable of saying that as scum. Which I think is true.

no offense, but this progression on me is atrocious

[skitter30]

ngl i don't see anything as being particularly unlikely to be faked.

Tris has expressed thoughts on the game that I have never even voiced in the thread

I would say yes, that kind of mind meld is hard to fake

i don't see it.
her posts are kinda just ~there~, almost like she's using them to demonstrate that she's like *present* and *posting* than to like sort people. her questions and observations are shallow and i don't think she posted anything particularly more likely to come from town than scum.

also this feels like a not svs associatives between you and tris

[skitter30]

My unvote was more of a reaction to seeing that I had accidentally put Yes at L-1 without realizing it and without announcing it. I wasn't opposed to it being brought to L-1 as long as people are aware of the fact.

were you ok with lynching him at that time?

Why is this push a thing

In the past, you have been completely fine with pressuring a lurker by wagoning them while at the same time, expressed discomfort with putting the same lurker wagon a L-1. That’s the same exact thought process tris had here

uh i don't really wagon lurkers in general, especially not at this stage of the game, i don't see the point. unless you like suspect them of active lurking voting them doesn't really prompt them to do anythign most of the time; i don't really use my vote to pressure people to do something so much as i try to use it to push someone i think is scum

i only really settle for a lurker vote if i'm completely befuddled about the gamestate and legit have no clue where scum are, and i try to prevent this from happening as much as possible.

or i guess if it's close to deadlien and i've come to realize that my preferred wagon just isn't happening but i need a wagon to happen anyways so i might compromise on a lurker anyways even if i don't want to

at that time voting for yes mafia was just like a safe place to park a vote while other people were calling him out as being scummy; she didn't even think he was scummy herself so much as hopping on to pressure someone who's playstyle has made it pretty apparent that they won't be reacting to pressure. the vote is just kinda pointless in this context, and i think it was scummy because it felt like she was trying to keep the momentum on the wagon, but made sure to remove herself from it when it got too close to a lynch so she wouldn't like *actually* be on it when/if a lynch happened

[skitter30]

idk if i particularly have it in me rn to fight this, but i want to make my reads as clear as possible so that you lot know exactly where i think scum is along the way

i like the people on my wagon in the following order:

ofrhz - i can understand why she's scumreading me; she's used to town!me having a ~presence~ and i haven't really been like that in this game; i've been having trouble kinda getting ~into~ it and idk why. she's been pushing this read pretty aggressively and trying to get people to wagon me with her; i've specced a couple of her scumgames and i don't think that she's particularly capable of faking a prolonged/protracted push like this; also i don't think that scum!her tries to mislynch me .... like ever really; it would be a lot easier to just throw a townread on me and call it a day i think.

gl - don't really understand a lot of the scumreads/paranoia here. his rvs/just-after-rvs game was like transparently townie to the point that i'm kinda confused how people didn't see it?

elbirn - think he's been pretty townie for him; after prey + anuket i feel like i have a fairly decent sense of his towngame and this kinda matches it. his gl vote/spat earlygame was meh in a vaccuum but the frustration felt kinda townie; i've seen him get frustrated over not understanding other people's pov/pushes (like with ank in anuket) and i'm not sure that scum!him can fake that level of vehemence. his vote on me was ok; i think 534 (specifically the 'i'm going to join the wagon while it's cool!' bit) belies a certain lack of self-consciousness that i would imagine scum would have bandwagoning someone they literally never mentioned or interacted with before.

enigma - i feel like most of his reasons for voting me aren't entirely fair or accurate; i've been sorting him by pointing out the things that i don't like in his play, and even voted him over them; i also think it's a little bit unreasonable to ding me at this stage for not trying to find a scumteam when we don't have any flips yet; i don't even believe in day1 pre-flip associatves and try not to scumhunt that way day1

tris - don't understand the townreads here at all. her vote/unvote/revote on yes mafia was oppurtunistic (@ofhrz i know you don't think so, but i strongly disagree); she basically used the excuse of a pressure vote to hop on the wagon on someone that was pretty clearly not reacting to any sort pressure at that time. her trajectory on me was also quite atrocious; she went from townreading me the page before to voting me as soon as someone else did without me, like, posting in between. overall i think she's pushing oppurtunistic wagons.

==

everyone else:

insomnia - still think that his push on yes mafia comes from town; he utterly doesn't care about the optics of the push and i think that he truly believes the philosophy he's espousing (namely, getting rid of difficult/lurking/useless players early is +ev to town) and his actions make sense in coming from that thought process; the one thing i'm slightly doubting is that yes mafia has been a bit less useless in the past couple of pages and that doesn't seem to have impacted his determination to make that wagon happen, but other than that i think they've been town; also all the people pushing him (specifically enigma, vizzy, and roster) are people that i'm suspicious of so

mariar - generally feels pretty townie to me; i like her catchup. idk if scum!her here repeatedly tries to get wagons started on people that clearly aren't getting lynched today; i feel like there's probably easier people for her to push than the universal townreads if she's scum. i like her approach to reading yes mafia too.

yes mafia - honeslty upon reflection most of what i disliked about them can be traced back to the gimmick alt and i feel like once the gimmick was kinda over after the alt-slip performer's been a lot more forthcoming with his reads and stances. i don't really like ~townread~ him but i don't really scumread him either.

vizzy - doesn't really feel like the town!vizzy that i'm used to; town!him's posts have a certain level of like non-chalant trolling-ness that feel very stream-of-conscious-y and through them and express exactly what he's thinking about the game. here, he feels a lot more shallow than i'm used to; like despite the troll posts i can usually track his thought process and understand the transition from one read or vote to the next but here i'm not really seeing that; in contrast, his hops on and off the yes mafia wagon were generally just ???? to me

roster - dislike that he's basically pushing insomina for having a different mafia philosphy than him; i kinda feel like he's using his dislike for insomnia's push on yes mafia to justify voting there while ignoring how insomnia's push makes sense *from insomnia's pov on the correct way to play mafia*; also dislike that after the enigma/insomnia spat he was willing to vote either; it's fence-sitty and opportunistic in that it's taking advantage of a conflict to give himself permission to vote either side.

beazu - the things she's saying and pushing don't really match the things she *does*. like after she voted insomnia she uses his read on enigma to push enigma herself, and she called out roster for voteparking on town!insomnia while voting insomnia herself; it doesn't really feel like her insomnia vote actually came from a read she really *believed* or *felt* since like her other reads and pushes don't really make sense when taken in conjunction with her stated scumread. i don't really feel like she scumreads insomnia so much as she used the existing wagon to find a place to slap down her vote with the most lamist of justifications. also i think she was buddyign elbirn in 184, that doesn't feel like a real thought that someone would actually, like, say

volxen - literally no thoughts on them. his townread on gl was decent but like not unfakeable and they haven't really been present enough for me to get a particularly good read on them; he just kinda is

==

i don't think this is gaining traction like at all today but i still think this is scum so
VOTE: tris

idk if anyone wants to ask me something go for it

[skitter30]

eh volxen might be town too

[skitter30]

Vote Count 1.12

skitter30 (6)

- tris, ofrhz, Enigma, GuiltyLion, rosterfoster, MariaR

Baezu (2)

- Elbirn, insomnia

tris (1)

- skitter30

Enigma (1)

- Yes Mafia

Yes Mafia (1)

- Invisibility

Not Voting (2)

- volxen, Baezu

As there are 13 players alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.

You have

(expired on 2019-04-16 23:24:30)

until the deadline.

intent to hammer

@Skitter speak now or forever hold your peace (aka claim)

Hi skitter I'm giving you until like 24ish hours from this post before hammer because I respect you and all but I'm not gonna let you low activity lurk the wagon away not saying you are just saying it's a possible thing people do idk

vt; i regularly don't have internt access for part of the weekend

[skitter30]

tris you played spectacularly, sorry i was kinda awful this game
good job town!

thanks light for modding

i had insomnia as a pr on like p3 but @volxen i didn't pick up that u were a pr