911: What's Your Emergency? (Postgame)

[light_ganski]

Vote Count 1.3

insomnia (3)

- insomnia, Invisibility, Yes Mafia

Yes Mafia (2)

- volxen, Baezu

GuiltyLion (2)

- MariaR, Elbirn

Elbirn (2)

- GuiltyLion, tris

ofrhz (1)

- skitter30

Enigma (1)

- ofrhz

Not Voting (2)

- Enigma, rosterfoster

As there are 13 players alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.

You have

(expired on 2019-04-16 23:24:30)

until the deadline.

[tris]

@Invisibility, do you scumread insomnia?

[skitter30]

It's the same reasoning as last game.

this one?

Spoiler:

This is mafia.

VOTE: Flubbernugget

i could've have sworn that we had a convo about this post last game but i skimmed the first seven pages or so of that game and i can't find your reasoning for it; were you reaction testing there?
if that's what you were doing here did you get any reads out of it?

==

i think gl is town

==

First statement implies - another player is scum reading someone for something, so i’ll hop on as well

Second statement implies - I have a reason for voting Baesu myself, so I’ll hop on

How is that not a huge difference? He’s stacking in rvs and advocating a potential mislynch without any reasons for voting.

I just didn’t like the sheep, you can wagon Baesu if you want

this is kinda townie actually

==

GL what do you think of Elbirn’s 18

ngl this kinda feels like you're trying to redirect gl's attention off of your meh rvs entrance onto elbirn's meh rvs entrance

note: beazu and elbirn are *prob* not aligned?

==

RVS = random voting stage ???

Ummm yeah? This is why I don’t scum hunt in RVS. This is why I vote people who stack up in rvs, especially without stating a reason for it

i kinda disagree; in the very beginning of the game i think it's important to start generating useful info as soon as possible in order to move teh game post rvs, and this often happens by forming wagons and seeing who is willing to jump on to what.
in general i don't think that hopping on rvs wagons is inherently scummy, nor do i think that roster's vote onto beazu was scummy here

==

I took a look at some of Baezu's games, and her RVS's there seem pretty consistent with how she was here. Even sometimes when there was more relevant content to react to. UNVOTE:

idk if scum!tris goes out of her way to meta beazu's past games in order to justify a p3 unvote

==

Maybe I was speaking to strong; looking back it does seem a bit more in line with how he was posting before, but it's the sudden backing off of his push on roster, and out of a discussion which at this point was definitely not RVS anymore.

so based on 80, i think that *insomnia* thinks that votes should be used to pressure people - he initially voted roster to pressure him over his beazu vote, but once the convo had moved on from there, he felt like his vote wasn't really doing much useful in that context, and moved off. i don't think that looked at from this pov the backing off is particularly suspicious

==

@insomnia how much mafia experience do u have?
also i hope everything is ok for you and your family

==

You meta'd someone on page 3 about their RVS behavior?

why are you incredulous about this?

==

Stacking votes in rvs on someone without posts is scummy tho

Plus, he mentioned “The Lion is onto something” not “I agree with GL’s read”, huge difference.

VOTE: insomnia haha lol

VOTE: Insomnia

VOTE: insomnia haha lol

VOTE: insomnia

both of these are atrocious

i think the insomnia wagon grew kinda suspiciously quickly; there's very likely scum on this wagon imo,
probably in this order:

yes_mafia > vizzy = roster > tris = insomnia

vizzy feels kinda ... shallow for him? idk the right way to describe it exactly but his first :meme: :meme: post felt almost like a parody of what i've seen him do in the past
i saw the note about being v/la for a school trip so i'm going to give him a few days and see if the shallow-y-ness stops once he has more time for this

==

It was L-2 I think.

Normally I would be ok with it but the pressure isn't going to do anything.

this is kinda townie

(unless roster is like exactly scum with insomnia which feels *kinda* unlikely given how insomnia jumped on him earlier)

==

Rooster had a weird entry to the thread and I dont know why THAT wasnt the reason for insomnia's vote.

... that *was* the reason for insomnia's vote?
kinda agree with you on insomnia tho btw

==

well at this point he has explicitly stated that he did:

ngl 46 kinda read to me as a bit buddying-y

==

VOTE: GuiltyLion
*yawn*

???? he's the towniest person in the thread rn

Insomnia and ofrhz are town.
Rooster is towny
Invisibility is a valid vote as well
hm well, that was easy.

i don't see ofrhz or rooster rn

==

This seems like TvT, tbh

UNVOTE:

why

==

I'm asking you why you're townreading Rooster, because I'm trying to sort *you*. As it stands I think you're bullshitting,

ok, why do you think gl's bs'ing on this read?

==

Insomnia and ofrhz are town.
Rooster is towny
Invisibility is a valid vote as well
hm well, that was easy.

who is the other valid vote

vizzy you're kinda pinging me as scum rn

==

tris's 139 feels kidna townie

[skitter30]

yay i'm caught up, sorry for the wall
(i'm mostly around nights/weekends now)

i'm going to go here i think
VOTE: yes mafia

[ofrhz]

also unpack this for me: what do you think the interactions are between rooster and I, S-T or S-S?

like
- do you think we're scum together and we decided to open with him sheeping me, then us mutually agreeing it was a good vote? why is that likely, especially considering how unlikely it is a priori that we're both scum?

- do you think he's scum sheeping misguided town!me?
- do you think I'm scum and he's the misguided town? in which case your reasons for scumreading him were wrong to begin with?

I'm not really seeing which of any of these makes sense from a town!you.

A few of GL’s pushes come off as a bit reachy so far. This quote is good example

At this point in the game, it’s fairly common for people to focus on coming up with independent scumreads (and for these scumreads to change later) and not really think about partners or the scumteam together. With this in mind, I don't see why the two bolded lines can't make sense?

This push seems reasonable on a superficial level but doesn't come off as arguing in good faith

VOTE: GuiltyLion

[ofrhz]

I'm not interested in giving reasons for my townread

Is this a relatively recent change to your playstyle? I've played with you once (Trapped modded by mutantdevle), and I remember you being more open about explaining your townreads there.

[ofrhz]

Talk to me about your tr on gl, skitter

[skitter30]

he's thinking a lot of the things i'm thinking as i was reading through the thread (specifically posts like 40, 44, the bit about tris in 142

i like that he's reaching out to other people and how he was trying to push the game out of rvs (as evidenced by his push on beazu for a lack of early-game contributions)

a lot of the things he's saying has the underlying current of trying to progress the game and to get people to articulate reads and to start forming towncores and it just feels to me like he's trying to get the game into a ~cohesive / game-solving-conducive~ gamestate

the way he's thinking about things is also like very nuanced/comprehensive/idk the right word but like his whole thought process seems very organic and like the things he's saying seem like real thoughts, and not ones he's making up. for the most part i understand why he's thinking things and where his trajectory is coming from and it doesn't feel fake to me

like his whole tone is kinda like 'no-nonsesne-y i'm here to solve this game' and it feels townie to me, especially since he's being kinda aggressive at pressuring people he's suspicious of. like it's not just the tone; his actions match the tone too

i don't agree with all of his pushes (like, say, the bit where he was pushing mariar for not townreading tris even though her townreads were townreading her; that's a silly reason to expect someone to townread someone at this stage) but i think he's def approachign this with a townie/solve-y mindset

i also think that his townread on roster is a little strong for what roster actually did; i kinda think that he felt validated that someone agreed with his stance on beazu, and so he then kinda gave roster a townread for like mindmelding with him there or whatever. i actually think that the way roster agreed with gl was kinda pocket-y / buddying-y (specifically 46)

[GuiltyLion]

At this point in the game, it’s fairly common for people to focus on coming up with independent scumreads (and for these scumreads to change later) and not really think about partners or the scumteam together. With this in mind, I don't see why the two bolded lines can't make sense?

This push seems reasonable on a superficial level but doesn't come off as arguing in good faith

I really didn't like the way Elbirn slid from roster to me. Either his scumread on roster was bad or his scumread on me is bad. Or both.

If he's not thinking about associatives between his two scumreads he's not really playing the game.

especially

as he's moving from one to another

I'm not interested in giving reasons for my townread

Is this a relatively recent change to your playstyle? I've played with you once (Trapped modded by mutantdevle), and I remember you being more open about explaining your townreads there.

nah, I can quote many posts extensively in past games where I say the exact same thing as town.

here's one from 2015 - "You are discrediting my townread on Kaboose at every corner. Town has no reason to do this. If you genuinely believe Kaboose is scum and I'm wrong, then you should be trying to convince me that he's scum, instead of using it as an attack on me for having an opposite read than you"
here's another from 2016 - "In a game where the vast majority of players are town, it should be your job to convince me that he's scum, not the other way around"
here's another from 2017 - seriously, read this entire post, it's exactly what I'm saying here only super polite-ified because I was IC in a newbie.

I just found these three from memory/searching discredit+townreads in my history, I'm sure I could dig up more with more effort.

there's a time and a place for explaining townreads, but when an early scumread is trying to poke holes in your townread on another player - another player who is not really under major scrutiny or lynch pressure - that is not the time.

[tris]

It's the same reasoning as last game.

this one?

Spoiler:

This is mafia.

VOTE: Flubbernugget

i could've have sworn that we had a convo about this post last game but i skimmed the first seven pages or so of that game and i can't find your reasoning for it; were you reaction testing there?
if that's what you were doing here did you get any reads out of it?

This is what I said when you asked me in that game.

Spoiler:

Oh, I forgot to respond to your question there. I actually didn't find anything about Flubber to be scum there. It was completely RVS.

It's less of a reaction test and more of a way to just try to push things out of RVS. As far as reads, I like GuiltyLion's process with respect to it.

GL what do you think of Elbirn’s 18

ngl this kinda feels like you're trying to redirect gl's attention off of your meh rvs entrance onto elbirn's meh rvs entrance

To me it feels more like trying to understand Gl's read on her by asking about a similar case.

I took a look at some of Baezu's games, and her RVS's there seem pretty consistent with how she was here. Even sometimes when there was more relevant content to react to. UNVOTE:

idk if scum!tris goes out of her way to meta beazu's past games in order to justify a p3 unvote

I think I might. But, I haven't had experience as scum that counts for much, so I don't know.

Maybe I was speaking to strong; looking back it does seem a bit more in line with how he was posting before, but it's the sudden backing off of his push on roster, and out of a discussion which at this point was definitely not RVS anymore.

so based on 80, i think that *insomnia* thinks that votes should be used to pressure people - he initially voted roster to pressure him over his beazu vote, but once the convo had moved on from there, he felt like his vote wasn't really doing much useful in that context, and moved off. i don't think that looked at from this pov the backing off is particularly suspicious

Yeah, I've come around on this.

Insomnia and ofrhz are town.
Rooster is towny
Invisibility is a valid vote as well
hm well, that was easy.

who is the other valid vote

vizzy you're kinda pinging me as scum rn

What's scum about that?

------------------------------------------

I like 157 from skitter. Most of it syncs up with how I'm thinking. So, that's a slight nudge towards town for skitter.

--------------------------------------------

If he's not thinking about associatives between his two scumreads he's not really playing the game.

especially

as he's moving from one to another

I don't think this is fair on day 1. People can be independently scummy.

[ofrhz]

he's thinking a lot of the things i'm thinking as i was reading through the thread (specifically posts like 40, 44, the bit about tris in 142

i like that he's reaching out to other people and how he was trying to push the game out of rvs (as evidenced by his push on beazu for a lack of early-game contributions)

Re: the push on Baezu - I think someone else mentioned earlier that they though Baezu's entrance was more null (i.e. "lacked town") and not really scummy, which is kind of what I thought as well. GL later said this wasn't a strong scumread though, so I don't really want to overanalyze this

I did like 142 tho, I'll give you that

a lot of the things he's saying has the underlying current of trying to progress the game and to get people to articulate reads and

to start forming towncores

and it just feels to me like he's trying to get the game into a ~cohesive / game-solving-conducive~ gamestate

I'm not really seeing the bolded? I think he stated a tr on roster and tris, but I'm not sure about forming towncores or even starting to
ftr not scumreading GL for this, since it's still early, but i'm not seeing how this is a valid reason to townread him.

i don't agree with all of his pushes (like, say, the bit where he was pushing mariar for not townreading tris even though her townreads were townreading her; that's a silly reason to expect someone to townread someone at this stage)

but i think he's def approachign this with a townie/solve-y mindset

I see scum motivation in this though. What did you think of my 154?

I think the rest is pretty valid

[tris]

also unpack this for me: what do you think the interactions are between rooster and I, S-T or S-S?

like
- do you think we're scum together and we decided to open with him sheeping me, then us mutually agreeing it was a good vote? why is that likely, especially considering how unlikely it is a priori that we're both scum?

- do you think he's scum sheeping misguided town!me?
- do you think I'm scum and he's the misguided town? in which case your reasons for scumreading him were wrong to begin with?

I'm not really seeing which of any of these makes sense from a town!you.

A few of GL’s pushes come off as a bit reachy so far. This quote is good example

At this point in the game, it’s fairly common for people to focus on coming up with independent scumreads (and for these scumreads to change later) and not really think about partners or the scumteam together. With this in mind, I don't see why the two bolded lines can't make sense?

This push seems reasonable on a superficial level but doesn't come off as arguing in good faith

VOTE: GuiltyLion

Yeah, I think this one of GL's more dubious cases.

[ofrhz]

there's a time and a place for explaining townreads, but when

an early scumread is trying to poke holes in your townread on another player

- another player who is not really under major scrutiny or lynch pressure - that is not the time.

This is fair. I think the bolded is the difference from the situations that arose in Trapped that I was originally thinking of

[GuiltyLion]

I'm not really seeing the bolded? I think he stated a tr on roster and tris, but I'm not sure about forming towncores or even starting to

i am trying to form towncores

even if i am not being super obviously explicit about it

[ofrhz]

tbh 160 was mostly me trying to get a better read on skitter

But that does raise an interesting point though. If you weren't explicit about it, would skitter pick up on it? idk

[Invisibility]

skitter what the heck dude why is bad for me to say haha lol haha lol
also
can someone convince me to move my vote

[Invisibility]

VOTE: enigma
nvm figured it out myself

[Enigma]

guys what happened to rvs and where did the walls come from

[Enigma]

sorry was going to read tonight but ran out of time, ill catch up over the next few days

[skitter30]

I think I might. But, I haven't had experience as scum that counts for much, so I don't know.

fair enough but idk if scum!you then goes and highlights that doing so might be in scumrange when you're getting townreads for it so

==

What's scum about that?

nothing in particular about that post so much as when i read that post i realized that holistically his posts were scumpingign me

==

Re: the push on Baezu - I think someone else mentioned earlier that they though Baezu's entrance was more null (i.e. "lacked town") and not really scummy, which is kind of what I thought as well. GL later said this wasn't a strong scumread though, so I don't really want to overanalyze this

i've seen more than once scum entering a game in rvs by lol-throwing down a vote and not engaging with already-existing content; it's a lot easier to make a random vote (and attribute it to rvs when asked!) than to actually engage with things as scum, and i've caught scum on this before (actually i think you were in one of those games - brass's pick your poison last year; i caught scioness saff there with that); all of beazu's, elbirn's, and enigma's entrances kinda fit that category for me, so i can understand gl's thought process there. i agree that it isn't inherently a particularly strong reason to scumread at this stage but i liked the push on p2; it was indicative of trying to get the game moving out of rvs

I'm not really seeing the bolded? I think he stated a tr on roster and tris, but I'm not sure about forming towncores or even starting to
ftr not scumreading GL for this, since it's still early, but i'm not seeing how this is a valid reason to townread him.

idk if he's been like explicitly forming a townbloc but the way he responded to mariar *not* forming a townbloc in the way he expects/wants to happen implies that he thinks that this is something townies should be doing now. and he's kinda doing it himself - he's townreading tris and pushing people who aren't (mariar, elbirn)

wrt 154 - i think he's trying to probe at elbirn's thought process, which is why he's asking elbirn about the next-step/logical-conclusions of his reads. like i think he's trying to get a vibe for how much elbirn has actually thought about this and how the roster-scumread and gl-scumread fit together in elbirn's mind by trying to get elbirn to vocalize the implications of his stated reads

i don't think people should particularly be expected to have fully fledged scumteams on p7, and i think it's just fine to have individual scumreads that don't particularly make sense togther as a team this early in the game. at the same time i think the way gl is probing at elbirn there is indicative of trying to understand if elbirn's thoughts are like ... real and make sense together or if he's just bs'ing. it might be holding elbirn's thoughts to like a pretty high standard early game but i don't really see scum motivation in it rn; i more think that gl is kinda aggressively trying to get into elbirn's head

==

skitter what the heck dude why is bad for me to say haha lol haha lol
also
can someone convince me to move my vote

idk
i've seen the meme posts before from town!you, this didnt' feel like that
idk how to articulate this better rn

[insomnia]

I found some time on my hands that I can use here

GL town

Roster town

Tris town

Baezu town
My lynch list: Yes Mafia / Elbirn / MariaR

Ofrhz town lean

I don’t know if I’ll lynch outside this list for today

VOTE: Elbirn

[ofrhz]

I’d vote vizzy

[ofrhz]

VOTE: enigma
nvm figured it out myself

How do you feel about the current wagons?

[MariaR]

I doubt I could get GL lynched today so I'm gonna move onto someone else who I do think I have a chance at getting lynched.
VOTE: Invis

[ofrhz]

VOTE: invis

yeet