911: What's Your Emergency? (Postgame)

[ofrhz]

VOTE: enigma
nvm figured it out myself

How do you feel about the current wagons?

(Current wagons = Elbirn, gl, yes mafia)

[Elbirn]

also unpack this for me: what do you think the interactions are between rooster and I, S-T or S-S?

like
- do you think we're scum together and we decided to open with him sheeping me, then us mutually agreeing it was a good vote? why is that likely, especially considering how unlikely it is a priori that we're both scum?
- do you think he's scum sheeping misguided town!me?
- do you think I'm scum and he's the misguided town? in which case your reasons for scumreading him were wrong to begin with?

I'm not really seeing which of any of these makes sense from a town!you.

Dude I don't fucking care. We are on page 7. I am explicitly not team building at this stage, nor am I going to establish preflip associations, nor have I ever, because they're bullshit. I'm probing and prodding at behaviors and actions that I want to understand better because I am trying to sort people's alignments. Two people can be independently scummy and I can try to sort the both of them as such.

No-no, I'm not having a semantic battle with you about burden of proof. Dont deflect. I'm asking you why you're townreading Rooster, because I'm trying to sort *you*. As it stands I think you're bullshitting, and yes it is up to you to show me if I'm wrong about your alignment.

I'm not trying to get into a semantic battle, I'm straight up telling you why I don't care to answer your question. Do you agree that faking townreads as scum is significantly easier than faking scumreads as scum? Because your question is a pretty bad way to sort me if that's your intention. If I'm scum it's easy for me to make up reasons why town!rooster is town. If we're scum together, I point you back to asking you why you think we're scum together and why we decided to open the game this way, because that's even more unlikely than the odds of one of us being scum to begin with.

If you can't see that I'm town and rooster's town, that says a lot more about your game than it does mine.

Lion I've been playing on this site since 2014 and I've never had this much of a fucking problem getting someone to just tell me what they're thinking. I don't care about your hypothesis that faking a townread as scum is easy, I don't care that you apparently believe that explaining yourself is beneath you, I don't care for your internet boy genius soliloquy's about the proper way to play this game. I could not have possibly asked you an easier question relating to the game state. I don't want a towncase, I don't want a wall of text about why someone with like 2 posts is town. You have stated that you have a reasonably confident townread on Roster, I don't see why that is, if you are town and want trust and cooperation with me, a townie, then please dumb down like I am five years old why this is. It can be a single sentence. The sentence can even be as simple as "I townread Roster because of gut", or "I townread Roster because he sheeped me and being agreed with feels good". I'm not trying to trap you or "poke holes" in your townread, I want to have a stated reason for what you are thinking.

your hackneyed reason for scumreading baez (not engaging enough by page 1? Uh-huh.)

also just to be thorough and explain why this is a discredit

my reason was never "not engaging

enough

". it was more the fact that she straight up did not engage with any of the content before her with her first post.

it's pretty straightforward reasoning:
- town do not have the information and needs to probe people to figure out their alignments. this fact doesn't change if it's page 1 or page 20.
- scum have most information, are scared of making disingenuous looking pushes, and benefit from when town is chaotic/disengaged/not-reading-eachother

so who is more likely to make an empty vote on page 1 that does not generate information? town or scum? I argue scum, and that's why I saw baezu's opening as potentially a scum-indicative one. does that make her lockscum? absolutely not, I'm 100% open to re-visiting and I have already since done so. Is it worthy of making a non-random vote on page 2? Yes.

this is easy stuff, it's not hard to understand. and it's not hard to believe that roster felt the same way.

Baezu's entry to the thread was post #19. I'm not saying there wasn't anything to engage with, but there certainly wasn't so much that I find it worth stinkeyeing someone for throwing down their RVS vote to ego the thread and waddling away. See Also: Me doing the same thing in post 18. Also: Every game of Mafia that has ever been run.

And I think that's largely where we are at. I'm having difficulty seeing where you're coming from on this because, stating the obvious, you and I have radically different play styles, and I've attributed you making a mountain out of a molehill to being disingenuous when no you're just like this.

I took a look at some of Baezu's games, and her RVS's there seem pretty consistent with how she was here. Even sometimes when there was more relevant content to react to. UNVOTE:

You meta'd someone on page 3 about their RVS behavior?

also now that tris has answered this, I want to jump in - I also thought this was a fairly scummy/bad question from Elbirn.

tris already looked town to me at this point, and it isn't hard to believe someone could or would quickly meta RVS behavior for a slot when that behavior is specifically under contention. meta-ing RVS is easier/simpler than meta-ing entire games.

further, what's the scum!incentive or explanation for tris to do a fake "meta" and then unvote? why does Elbirn think this question will help him sort tris? If he thinks she's lying about it, why would he not just come out and say he doesn't believe it? There's no answer to this question from tris that would genuinely help read her, it reads more like a question meant to shade and fake engagement.

I at no point called this AI or suggested it was fake.

Meta is largely bullshit that I don't believe in and someone jumping to it as their first tool to get a read on someone, when it's page 3 and that someone has all of like 3 posts, makes my soul die

I feel like I'm just over here trying to play a normal game and there's at least 3 super try hards in here ready and waiting to crawl inside everyones assholes over every bit of minutiae and I'm like fvxking ughhhhhh

------------------------------------------

UNVOTE:

I don't even want this I just want my question answered

[Elbirn]

i feel like someone comes out scummy in this gl elbirn thing but my mind literally cannot compute whats happeenenign

I don't see what's so confusing. Please get off of your fence and tell me what you think about Me/Lion?

[Elbirn]

guys what happened to rvs and where did the walls come from

sorry was going to read tonight but ran out of time, ill catch up over the next few days

Respectfully, you couldn't read 7 pages in the 3 hours between these posts?
I understand if you have things going on irl but please come play the game, you beetlejuicing into here and then not doing anything is a bad look

[Baezu]

guys what happened to rvs and where did the walls come from

sorry was going to read tonight but ran out of time, ill catch up over the next few days

Respectfully, you couldn't read 7 pages in the 3 hours between these posts?
I understand if you have things going on irl but please come play the game, you beetlejuicing into here and then not doing anything is a bad look

I absolutely agree with this

[Baezu]

Honestly, invisibility did that too.

I’m not really sure why there is so much lurking...

[Elbirn]

Honestly, invisibility did that too.

I’m not really sure why there is so much lurking...

People see walls and angry people and they get scared
I don't blame them so do I

[Elbirn]

VOTE: yes mafia

Okay I have a question for you and then I'll fuckoff because most of this page is me now

What's up with the Yes Mafia vote, you never explained a read here? What do you

see

[Baezu]

I was really just trying to engage a lurker- that was it

[Baezu]

You don’t need to bugger off, it’s pretty clear you’re town and you are trying to generate activity and unify town. I appreciate having strong players like that in my game! It’s great for town!

[Yes Mafia]

I think theres scum in at least 1 of insomnia/gl/rooster/skittles

[rosterfoster]

I don’t like walls.

Really sticking your neck out there aren’t you YM?

[Invisibility]

VOTE: enigma
nvm figured it out myself

How do you feel about the current wagons?

(Current wagons = Elbirn, gl, yes mafia)

I actually feel TvT from Elbirn gl
lemme look up ok yes I’m on phonepost

[Invisibility]

VOTE: yes
ok this is a good vote

[Invisibility]

amlost our of phone battery aaaaaaaa

[rosterfoster]

VOTE: Yes

[Invisibility]

uh
Town -
Townlean - Elbirn, tris, GuiltyLion, rosterfoster, Baezu
Null - skitter30, Enigma, ofrhz, MariaR
Scumlean - Insomnia, volxen, Yes Mafia
Scum -
I can post reasons later when I don’t want to conserve battery but a lot of it is how I felt when reading posts i think trusting my gut is a more rational thing than I used to think so I’m not just straight up denyingg less concrete reads.

[Invisibility]

thats from my reads document btw

[tris]

UNVOTE:

VOTE: enigma
nvm figured it out myself

Why this vote?

uh
Town -
Townlean - Elbirn, tris, GuiltyLion, rosterfoster, Baezu
Null - skitter30, Enigma, ofrhz, MariaR
Scumlean - Insomnia, volxen, Yes Mafia
Scum -
I can post reasons later when I don’t want to conserve battery but a lot of it is how I felt when reading posts i think trusting my gut is a more rational thing than I used to think so I’m not just straight up denyingg less concrete reads.

I'm curious about your reads on Baezu and Insomnia.

----------------------------------

I'd like to hear more about why Insomnia is scummy. I gut put him as town based on one post, but now there's this wagon without much explanation.

------------------------------------------

I think theres scum in at least 1 of insomnia/gl/rooster/skittles

You wanna say more? VOTE: Yes Mafia

[Invisibility]

enigma was doing jack s word

[tris]

jack s word?

[Invisibility]

jack s word

[Invisibility]

jack shoot

[tris]

Oh wait, I see.

[tris]

Why did you choose enigma over say volxen?