911: What's Your Emergency? (Postgame)

[Enigma]

i agree

[Enigma]

i think there is someone else i want to vote for now though, someone join me on this pls
VOTE: Baezu

[Baezu]

Insomnia- he’s a great player and I totally thought he was town...am I misreading or misinterpreting that post? I know you were trying to explain it to me but I didn’t understand the explanation...

Is this a tr or an sr

It’s a “I have to think about this more and get more info” read

[Baezu]

Baezu why do you tr volxen?

Based on meta...I think his play here is town...I know that meta reads don’t really count for much so I’m definitely keeping my eye on that slot for more info as well

[Baezu]

Thinking enigma is town

VOTE: invis

Because of post 387?

[Elbirn]

i think there is someone else i want to vote for now though, someone join me on this pls
VOTE: Baezu

UNVOTE:

Sell me

[Elbirn]

Also PSA that Insomnias philosophy regarding how to deal with lurker slots is literally the opposite of correct but that doesnt make him scum

[insomnia]

Explain what’s wrong about it and how you deal with lack of apathy from players and their unwilligness to spew themselves town and how that makes them not a liability later in the game and argue how slots that fit into this cathegory benefit town

[Elbirn]

Explain what’s wrong about it and how you deal with lack of apathy from players and their unwilligness to spew themselves town and how that makes them not a liability later in the game and argue how slots that fit into this cathegory benefit town

I'm not going to argue against lurkers being a liability

But we gain nothing in terms of information/associations, being bad at mafia still =/= being scum, and these are the exact sorts of people to be vigged if anything and you insisting the opposite is haha nah man

[Invisibility]

can someone present a scum case on someone

[insomnia]

But we gain nothing in terms of information/associations, being bad at mafia still =/= being scum, and these are the exact sorts of people to be vigged if anything and you insisting the opposite is haha nah man

You are arguing on this : Shoot Yes Mafia instead of lynching him.

You are saying he provides no associations post-flip.

You, the one who argues that lynching YM is bad because of no associations, are saying shoot him.

The outcome of a lynch versus shoot scenario is exactly the same. There are no associations post-flip if he is shot or lynched. The only difference is that you’re forcing PR’s to use their abilities on a player that is going to die regardless, be it through a lynch or a vig shot.

You do realize the mistake in your approach? It doesn’t matter if he is shot or lynched, the idea is to get rid of scummy people that just so happen to be lurking as well.

I am advocating a lynch because it allows for cop/vig to pursue their reads freely without being forced by us to waste a night action on someone that is already a suspect.

If cop checks and he gets a green -> he needs to out himself to protect someone who doesn’t contribute to the wincon of towns. Is that a worthwile deal? Losing a PR for someone who clearly doesn’t have an interest in playing?

If vig shoots -> we are forcing him to waste a bullet. A good vig shoots someone that is scum and that has a lot of influence or is literally unlynchable. Vig needs to shoot for info, we’re wasting our PR’s ability.

Lynching is a way better outcome in this scenario.

I believe I make a lot of sense in my head, I don’t know why nobody gets what I’m saying, it’s all logical to me

[ofrhz]

Lurker wagons tend to be bad for VCA

Or that’s the thought at least

[ofrhz]

Thinking enigma is town

VOTE: invis

Because of post 387?

I think town Enigma tends to harp on things that he thinks are scummy and will harp and nitpick on them even if everyone else disagrees

I think that’s basically what he has done here wrt insomnia

[ofrhz]

Baezu why do you tr volxen?

Based on meta...I think his play here is town...I know that meta reads don’t really count for much so I’m definitely keeping my eye on that slot for more info as well

Can you elaborate on this meta read?

I do think metareads are worthwhile

[Elbirn]

A good vig shoots liabilities, not makes unilateral decisions based on their own reads instead of the good of the people

We should be lynching contentious slots that generate info, not nothing nobodies who give no information

I'm also not arguing for a cop to check these slots you'll notice, and none of this semantic babble is even helpful if theres no vig so you got me I just dont like making people dead because "hurr they're not doing anything shit down their neck", I want to make people dead because they're scum

Pedit: this was to insomnia

[light_ganski]

Vote Count 1.7

Enigma (3)

- GuiltyLion, skitter30, Baezu

Yes Mafia (3)

- volxen, tris, insomnia

Invisibility (2)

- MariaR, ofrhz

insomnia (1)

- rosterfoster

tris (1)

- Yes Mafia

Baezu (1)

- Enigma

Not Voting (2)

- Invisibility, Elbirn

As there are 13 players alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.

You have

(expired on 2019-04-16 23:24:30)

until the deadline.

[Elbirn]

You have

(expired on 2019-04-16 23:24:30)

until the deadline.

Like

I'll lynch YM push come to shove

But if we cant come up with anything better in 10 days that's just sad

[ofrhz]

We still have ten days? It feels like we’ve been in this dayphase for forever

[Elbirn]

It's only been 5 days welcome to hell time isnt real

[Baezu]

also unpack this for me: what do you think the interactions are between rooster and I, S-T or S-S?

like
- do you think we're scum together and we decided to open with him sheeping me, then us mutually agreeing it was a good vote? why is that likely, especially considering how unlikely it is a priori that we're both scum?

- do you think he's scum sheeping misguided town!me?
- do you think I'm scum and he's the misguided town? in which case your reasons for scumreading him were wrong to begin with?

I'm not really seeing which of any of these makes sense from a town!you.

A few of GL’s pushes come off as a bit reachy so far. This quote is good example

At this point in the game, it’s fairly common for people to focus on coming up with independent scumreads (and for these scumreads to change later) and not really think about partners or the scumteam together. With this in mind, I don't see why the two bolded lines can't make sense?

This push seems reasonable on a superficial level but doesn't come off as arguing in good faith

VOTE: GuiltyLion

Even if you don’t agree with his push here, why do you think it was made in “bad faith”? He wasn’t strictly talking about himself and Roster as a scumteam, he was asking Elbirn essentially why he thinks a combination of either scum!GL and town!Roster or scum!Roster and town!GL is likely. If GL is town that means he is sincere in his townread of Roster, so it makes sense for him to ask Elbirn why he thinks at least one of {GL, Roster} is scum, does it not? And how Elbirn responds to those questions will help GL to read his slot as well. He’s not suggesting that Elbirn shouldn’t have individual scumreads.

The bolded questions in the post you quoted are fine, there is nothing disingenuous about them.

This post specifically reminds me of his posts in newbie 1888 and 1889 where he pushes people, thinks out scenarios and weighs in. In his scum games he comes across as more defensive and is less forthcoming with information and analysis and tends to ask hollow questions

[ofrhz]

When did you metadive volxen, Baezu?

[Baezu]

I’m familiar with his games. I’ve been on the site a long time

[Yes Mafia]

1. they provide entertainment

VOTE: engima

[skitter30]

i sr gl and insomnia,

can you elaborate on the gl scumread please?

[skitter30]

why are you townreading tris?
i think that her vote on the wagon was quite awful and indicative of trying to ensure that the wagon stayed within lynch-range

I didn’t really see her vote that way

I think she voted to keep up the pressure on someone who was periodically popping in but not being very towny. I can see why she unvoted at L-1 to avoid a lolhammer or something, but I generally agree with not backing down from pressuring a wagon when the person being wagoned hasn’t towned it up (so her unvoting at L-1 but revoting to put yes at L-2 makes sense to me). I think her vote on yes also tracks with her statements that she had a bunch of null reads but no strong scumreads at the time.

I think she’s town because a lot of her thoughts mirror mine to the point where I think they’re unlikely to be faked

i guess i can kinda see this pov but that's def not how i read that vote; i read it more like she was trying to maintian the momentum of the wagon but didn't want to be *on it* if it ended up happening. also a pressure vote on someone who isn't here *and isn't responding in any way to the pressure* when they are doesn't really do much

ngl i don't see anything as being particularly unlikely to be faked.