Open 78: Friends & Enemies (Over) - before 608

[dcorbe]

I already confirmed to the mod in PM.

[dcorbe]

@farside: If you're going to get pissy and abandon your role this game when someone puts pressure on you, then you should ask to be replaced now before the game begins.

[dcorbe]

@dcorbe: if you're going to be a cock like that ever again please leave this website forever.

Sorry, but I think refusing to defend yourself and abandoning a role when you're hovering around L-2 and L-1 is in extremely poor taste.

[dcorbe]

QuitcherBitchin of Suspicion: Rishi

for complaining about posting about other games.

Chesspeice of suspicion: IcemanE

this game had more peices when it was lent to you!!!

WTF of suspicion: Korts and Surye

because I have no idea of what you are talking about

"A kick to myself because I should have lynched him in another game" of suspicion: Celebloki

I missed my chance...Grrrr...

Bad Pun of suspicion: Roflcopter

Dirty pool old man!!!

Chuckle of suspicion: Grimmy

for getting carried away with the suspicions.

Grimmy
doesnt trust anyone!!!

STFU of Suspicion: Grimmy

that finger is going to fall off if you keep shaking it at everyone

[dcorbe]

Woah, I'm late to the party and there is alot of people I have never played with or even heard of before here.

Tekkactus's avatar reminds me of some old cartoon show about some kind of Living Starship.

icemanE also has a Good tastes in cartoons.

Rolfcopter and kortz must be blind. Grimmy's avatar cleary depicks a satirical joke about how much gas prices suck.

Dcorbe needs to chill and get an avatar too.

Anyone else besides me remember that Mr. Blonde was the name of a Bad Guy in the Perfect Dark Game genre?

I have heard of and/or played with you farside22, Rishi, and Surye, so hello to you guys aswell.

Cel

e

blok

i needs to go behind bars

Vote: Celebloki

It's funny how you interpreted my post as emotional or that I was otherwise trying to be disruptive rather than a random event and an even more random vote.

[dcorbe]

Not having an avatar is a scum tell now?

I guess all the newbies here are in bad shape then!

@Mr. Blonde: curious why me not voting deserves scrutiny.

[dcorbe]

Nice! A no-avatar wagon!

I'll respond in a few hours.

[dcorbe]

The vote on dcorbe is not because he doesn't have an avatar (though that's not helping). It's his general attitude. He's really defensive and lashing out at people. Pretty much every post he's made has been pissy. This doesn't necessarily mean he's scum - more likely he's just a jerk. But, he seems a good person to pressure, because I think his reaction will be interesting.

My attitude? My posting history? Are you serious?

We're 4 pages into day 1 and I've barely posted at this point. The only post I've made so far that should be interpreted as pissy is my STFU of Suspicion on Grimmy, but it didn't seem to bother him as much as it bothers you and I even tried to excuse myself a few posts later (which you're either ignoring or haven't read yet).

You; sir, are pushing a wagon out of pure opportunism. I can at least understand all the random votes and the OMGUSing going on here, but you look like you're attempting to pick the ball up and build a case out of thin air.

[dcorbe]

The vote on dcorbe is not because he doesn't have an avatar (though that's not helping). It's his general attitude. He's really defensive and lashing out at people. Pretty much every post he's made has been pissy. This doesn't necessarily mean he's scum - more likely he's just a jerk. But, he seems a good person to pressure, because I think his reaction will be interesting.

My attitude? My posting history? Are you serious?

We're 4 pages into day 1 and I've barely posted at this point. The only post I've made so far that should be interpreted as pissy is my STFU of Suspicion on Grimmy, but it didn't seem to bother him as much as it bothers you and I even tried to excuse myself a few posts later (which you're either ignoring or haven't read yet).

You; sir, are pushing a wagon out of pure opportunism. I can at least understand all the random votes and the OMGUSing going on here, but you look like you're attempting to pick the ball up and build a case out of thin air.

Interesting point.
Rishi were do you think he has been pissy?

I forgot about my pre-game tirade against you, farside; however, that was technically not an in-game comment and shouldn't be held against me.

-Daniel

[dcorbe]

Unvote

Okay, my SD Scummer vote is pointless now

ever heard of an event called SCUMMERSLAM?



He may fit right in!!!

Grimmy
BTR representing in Mafia forums

Where in SD are you? I'm always looking for someone to go drinking with. I've only been here since November so you'll have to approximate your distance from me in terms of how long it would take to drive to get there from where I am

I'm living downtown right now, in the (aptly) little italy area.

[dcorbe]

Unvote

Okay, my SD Scummer vote is pointless now

ever heard of an event called SCUMMERSLAM?



He may fit right in!!!

Grimmy
BTR representing in Mafia forums

Where in SD are you? I'm always looking for someone to go drinking with. I've only been here since November so you'll have to approximate your distance from me in terms of how long it would take to drive to get there from where I am

I'm living downtown right now, in the (aptly) little italy area.

Oh. You live in NYC. I missed that... Well all mobsters are from NY, right?

[dcorbe]

I'll be in vegas this weekend but we should totally do some star bar or tivoli when I get back.

[dcorbe]

giving so thoughts on Mr. Blond so far I'm in a couple of current games with him. I will just say that he seems like this in all the games. I would say he is not a great scum hunter by any stretch of the imagination.
dcorbe trying to derail the conversation and buddying up in game is noted. Surye and icemanE oh and celebloki going along with it also noted. So many people to choose from. One among them could be scum.
I feel good about roflcopter so far. He was right to point out my comment and question me further about it. I'm feeling good about my vote ATM, however.

fos surye, icemanE and celebloki

Please tell me who I'm buddying up with.

[dcorbe]

I wasn't trying to derail the conversation, I was having a sidebar with someone here. This is; afterall, supposed to be a friendly game and we're all going to get to know each other over the next few months anyways.

But your objection to non-game related conversation in game is noted. I'll take my sidebars to PM or IM.

-Daniel

[dcorbe]

Surye and icemanE oh and celebloki going along with it also noted.

Just a question, I was the one who pointed out that the barhopping convo had taken control of the game, so I'm not entirely sure how I was grouped in with the people participating in it.

Also, Daniel, I have to reiterate how much I love the fact that you sign your name when you "really mean something", its funny haha.

I love you, and I really mean that...

... where's the sig?

[dcorbe]

I really don't like how discussion is centered around how the SD scummer core is going to get drunk together. That's not anything game-relevant.

And that's already been acknowledged. The principals involved in the conversation have already agreed to take it private. If you keep bringing it up the conversation will never die and we will never be able t move on.

[dcorbe]

I really don't like how discussion is centered around how the SD scummer core is going to get drunk together. That's not anything game-relevant.

And to expand on why I don't like your post: You're pushing a non-issue right now.

FoS: Korts

FoS: Grimmy

because we're 5 pages into D1 now, time to stop with the random voting and start contributing something useful.

[dcorbe]

If I could put my finger on it. dcorbe converstations and comments just arent' sitting right with me. He brings up the Sd thing and now is getting pissy with others mentioning it. You know that when someone is too nice thing. (i call it a politian smile in RL) well that's what I feel reading him is someone who will smile while talking to you then stab you in the back the moment you turn around.

I'm lashing out at people who would rather talk about it and nothing else even though I and the others have tried to move on now.

The comment I made about Rishi reaching for a case now applies to you too. Everyone else has abandoned my wagon.

[dcorbe]

still think the dcorbe case is a real reach. farside wagon is good.

At this point I'm inclined to agree. Plus it's time to start turning up some pressure on people.

So.

Unvote

Vote: farside22

[dcorbe]

Well at L-1 all I have is my claim as town. At least lynching me no power roles are revealed, which gives the scum nothing but guessing for the night.
I don't think I'm reaching. Please look at those who were on my wagon. I don't think my vote against dcorbe is wrong. I say look at him tomorrow.

I'd like you to do a better job of explaining why you're so convinced that I'm scummy based on meta conversation which everyone pretty much agrees has no relevance to the game.

If you are town and for the sake of your team mates, please either quote posts, talk about some of my actions.. something.. *anything* that could be useful to us at all. Either that or back off until you have a better case.

A lynch this early on D1 is more likely to have a bad result rather than a good one.

Votecount as of post 125

farside22 - 6 (Roflcopter, IcemanE, Mr. Blonde, Korts, Grimmy, dcorbe)
Rishi - 1 (Tekkactus)
dcorbe - 1 (farside22)
Grimmy - 1 (Celebloki)

Not Voting - 3 (Pokerface, Surye, Rishi)

7 to lynch

[dcorbe]

Well at L-1 all I have is my claim as town. At least lynching me no power roles are revealed, which gives the scum nothing but guessing for the night.
I don't think I'm reaching. Please look at those who were on my wagon. I don't think my vote against dcorbe is wrong. I say look at him tomorrow.

I'd like you to do a better job of explaining why you're so convinced that I'm scummy based on meta conversation which everyone pretty much agrees has no relevance to the game.

If you are town and for the sake of your team mates, please either quote posts, talk about some of my actions.. something.. *anything* that could be useful to us at all. Either that or back off until you have a better case.

A lynch this early on D1 is more likely to have a bad result rather than a good one.

Votecount as of post 125

farside22 - 6 (Roflcopter, IcemanE, Mr. Blonde, Korts, Grimmy, dcorbe)
Rishi - 1 (Tekkactus)
dcorbe - 1 (farside22)
Grimmy - 1 (Celebloki)

Not Voting - 3 (Pokerface, Surye, Rishi)

7 to lynch

dcorbe - What's suspicious about this post is that you recommend we not lynch this early and yet you don't withdraw your vote, which would take farside off of L-1.

The thread deserves a reread by the mod. Technically it looks like she was already hammered.

I voted (Lynch), then pokerface unvoted to put her at L-1

I thought she was at L-2, actually that's why I didn't remove my vote.

@Mod?

[dcorbe]

I don't like how defensive dcorbe gets at simple comments such as below.

The vote on dcorbe is not because he doesn't have an avatar (though that's not helping). It's his general attitude. He's really defensive and lashing out at people. Pretty much every post he's made has been pissy. This doesn't necessarily mean he's scum - more likely he's just a jerk. But, he seems a good person to pressure, because I think his reaction will be interesting.

My attitude? My posting history? Are you serious?

We're 4 pages into day 1 and I've barely posted at this point. The only post I've made so far that should be interpreted as pissy is my STFU of Suspicion on Grimmy, but it didn't seem to bother him as much as it bothers you and I even tried to excuse myself a few posts later (which you're either ignoring or haven't read yet).

I made a comment about his off topic conversation and he once again goes on the defensive rather quickly. There were votes against him, mine was in good fun, but I just felt with his response to a BW vote that usually goes no were day 1 (those who played larger games may have seen BW day one for crap and giggles) is used to weed out and look for scum sometimes. Rishi had his reason's and I note he seems to get pissy with his answer back.

You; sir, are pushing a wagon out of pure opportunism. I can at least understand all the random votes and the OMGUSing going on here, but you look like you're attempting to pick the ball up and build a case out of thin air.

You're still reaching. At one point in time you liked this. You went as far as to say I had a good point and now you're going back on your word. Which is it? Either I'm contributing usefully or I'm not. It can't be one or the other when it suits your whims.

You seem to have a personal problem with me and it's effecting your judgement.

[dcorbe]

dcorbe - see my question in post 131.

The response to your question is my vote count in my notes was off from Post 100. I apparently haven't been able to do simple math all weekend long, and to make matters worse I was off in the other direction after I reread the thread.

I'd make a horrible mod, but it's not a scum tell

[dcorbe]

dcorbe - you're still on the farside wagon - do you still favor a farside lynch?

I'm torn, because D1 lynches this early rarely go well, but she's developed tunnel vision and is acting in haste -- and that's not good for the town.

I'd like to see her response to my post (#145)

Votecount as of post 150

farside22 - 4 (Roflcopter, Mr. Blonde, Grimmy, dcorbe)
Rishi - 1 (Tekkactus)
dcorbe - 1 (farside22)
Grimmy - 1 (Celebloki)

Not Voting - 5 (Pokerface, Surye, Rishi, Korts, IcemanE)

7 to lynch

[dcorbe]

Nice post, Poker. I should have time a little later tonight to weigh in on what you say about everyone else, but while I have a few free minutes now I'll just respond to what you've said regarding me.

icemanE's early comments feel alot like he was playing both sides of the fence. First he mentions the issue about dcorbe needing an avatar.
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 19#1093019
Then he jumps on Rishi and votes Farside when he was originally voting rishi.
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 64#1094264
Then he jumps back at dcorbe.
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 37#1094937

What I think is strange is that a "no avatar" wagon formed in the first place. That wasn't my intent - earlier in the game I asked Grimmy to get an avatar too, and I didn't and still don't really see how not having an avatar is a scum tell in any way. One of the strangest things is the difference between how people reacted to Grimmy not having an av and dcorbe not having one. Check it out:

Grimmy - why no avatar?

He finds them suspicious.

I think it goes beyond that. Avatars find Grimmy suspicious.

Just a few jokes, etc, no votes. Now dcorbe, same question to start it off:

dcorbe - why no avatar?

Oh my, another San Diego scummer. Unvote, Vote: dcorbe

Note: I don't think Surye's vote was related to the avatar issue, but nonetheless it's the first after my post so I feel its necessary to mention it. Moving on:

obvious scumtell

This is in response to my "dcorbe, why no avatar?" post.

Sidebar - I meant to ask you, Blonde, whether this comment was aimed at me or dcorbe. Either way I don't really follow how its a scumtell and I assume you're joking, as you did when I asked Grimmy to get one.

So far, the reaction seems to be pretty similar to when Grimmy didn't have an avatar. Then this happens:

Unvote
Vote: dcorbe
for not voting anybody

...and the bandwagon begins.

Actually, I play in a lot of newbie games as an IC. I'd say that 90% of them will get an avatar if asked.

Unvote, Vote: dcorbe

Someone needs to join a newbie game me thinks.
unvote:
vote: dcorbe

Those two votes seem incredibly opportunistic to me. Rishi

actually

seems to be voting dcorbe for

not having an avatar

and Farside claims we were getting good info out of that bandwagon, to which I said:

The only real conversation coming out of that BW is "why are you voting me because I don't have an avatar" which is a totally reasonable question.

It was a bizarre bandwagon - those last two votes seemed to have been placed as "middle of the road" votes, which after a lynch don't seem as important as the first or last, making it appealing for scum to place them, especially if there's a readily available excuse.

Anyways, as far as me playing both sides of the fence, I think you're talking about this post:

I'm gonna have to FoS: Rishi as well.

However, I agree with what rofl has said thus far regarding dcorbe (who, when he's trying to be very sincere, uses his real name in his posts, apparently ^^^), especially this:

rofl wrote:

dcorbe wagon is being ridden by scum, methinks


As such, unvote, vote: farside.

I'm actually talking about two different issues here, but it's poorly worded. I agreed with dcorbe that Rishi was pushing the wagon oppurtunistically (I actually stupidly FoS'd him while my vote was still on him from the random stage which he was keen to point out) but I also agreed with rofl that dcorbe's wagon was being ridden by scum. The way the initial post reads makes it seem like I'm saying I agree with rofl that dcorbe isn't scummy, but what I really meant to say was that rofl was right in that scum were probably riding dcorbe's wagon. Therefore I put my vote on farside - so in the post i express my suspicion of both farside and Rishi, and accidentally make it seem like I'm not suspicious of dcorbe. Which, as evidenced by my more recent posts, I obviously am. Keep in mind that we're dealing with two scum teams here - Rishi and Farside could be teammates OR be on separate factions - one could even be teammates with dcorbe - either way, those are my three biggest suspects right now.

Here is what I don't like about Icemane's response to the claim

Well at L-1 all I have is my claim as town. At least lynching me no power roles are revealed, which gives the scum nothing but guessing for the night. I don't think I'm reaching. Please look at those who were on my wagon. I don't think my vote against dcorbe is wrong. I say look at him tomorrow.

Hmm... I initially glanced over this post, but look back at it I'm actually sort of inclined to believe it. Though scum often say something like "I'm just a townie so at least we aren't losing anyone important", the "look at the people on my wagon, especially dcorbe" part of the message sort of hits home. That last piece of the message would hold no water if farside turned up scum, and farside seems to sort of concede instead of getting overly defensive and fighting back. Her comments about the offtopic bar discussion and wide-reaching suspicions are still suspect, but, at least for the time being, I'm going to believe the claim.

unvote

Overdefensiveness is not a direct scum tell. There was a mafia discussion thread about that awhile back and if i find the link later on I will post it in the thread. In my 'current' opinion overdefensiveness can only become a scumtell if it reaches the point where the player's responses and attacks come off as OMGUS every other post. OMGUS is a scum tell, but overdefensiveness certainly isn't.

Hmm... another poorly worded post on my part, it seems.

Note: Mod, it looks like the quote might not format properly, if there's an issue would you mind correcting it? I don't see quote tags inside my quote to denote the quoted passage inside it. Thanks.

What I mean to say in the post is essentially this: farside's claim seems more town than other claims I've seen. That doesn't necessarily mean it's a valid claim, but without a deadline in sight, there's no reason to rush a kill, so for now, I'll give it the benefit of the doubt as there are many other subjects to investigate and at least three more scum to find.

The whole overdefensiveness bit doesn't really correlate to what I tried to get across - I only mention overdefensiveness because she DIDN'T do it, so Poker, a mafia theory question: Do you mean to say that the LACK of overdefensiveness, which is what I point out in the post, is a town tell, a scum tell, or a null tell? I couldn't quite tell from the post, because you point out that overdefenisiveness, which her post lacks, is not a scum tell, but you also say you don't buy the claim. In that sense, if she HAD been overdefensive would the claim look any different to you, or would you be just as suspicious of it?

Anywho, thanks.

You mind explaining why you think I'm scummy instead of trying to subliminally plant the idea into everyone's head?

It must have taken you a little while to think through and type all of that out. You could have taken 5 extra minutes to explain it.

[dcorbe]

My last post was unclear, so

@icemanE: Re your post (154) You mind explaining why you think I'm scummy instead of trying to subliminally plant the idea into everyone's head?

It must have taken you a little while to think through and type all of that out. You could have taken 5 extra minutes to explain it.

[dcorbe]

dcorbe - my suspicion is based primarily off of the last page, that being page 6 - the inconsistencies between what you say and how you vote, the latter being the more powerful in mafia.

She's at L-3 right now, so I don't feel the need to take my vote off of her. I didn't feel the need to take my vote off of her before because I wanted a fast answer out of her. I would still feel completely justified in keeping my vote on her if she were L-1 because she is active and posting elsewhere.

This explanation isn't likely to satisfy you. Have a good night.

[dcorbe]

FoS: icemanE

for two reasons

1) For defending a lurker. She's active and refusing to post in this game.
2) Every time I try to address the situation with farside22 icemanE chimes in and my requests get buried under accusatory chatter.

I'd still like to see her response to my post (#145): Either I'm contributing usefully or I'm not. It can't be both and it can't be one or the other when it suits her whims. Which is it?

[dcorbe]

@dcorbe:

Another reason I am suspicious of you is your OMGUS style of play. I'll cite examples in a second. In response to your most recent post:

1) I'm explaining why I think the claim is worthy of pausing her lynch, not defending a lurker. She's still on my FoS list, as I've clearly said. I just don't think it's necessary to lynch someone this early on. You, on the other hand, have gone back and forth on this issue of lynching her, leaving your vote on her when you think she shouldn't be lynched, yet also giving what you thought was the hammer vote. It's very inconsistent.

I thought it was the hammer vote after I placed it, not before. It was a mistake, a stupid one at that. I've also explained my reasoning behind my decision to leave my vote on her, which I correctly predicted would not satisfy your curiosity. Keep after it though, because maybe if you repeat it over and over again you can get the town to lynch me based on that fact alone and you won't need to come up with any new case building material on me whatsoever.

2) The above responds to this point - Every time you address the "farside issue" it's inconsistent with previous posts, and that's worth noting.

How is asking her to respond to a question a contradiction to anything I've previously said?

Farside - It would be good of you to respond to his question and participate in this game. I understand you have a baby but you seem to be active in other games, as dcorbe pointed out.

As far as the OMGUS I mentioned earlier, here's where I've seen it:

FoS: Korts

That was post 115 - you FoS Korts because he criticized your irrelevant conversation.

How is that an OMGUS? It's a legitimate point to FoS people who won't let irrelevant conversation die down. In the scheme of things page 5 is already well beyond where the incident took place to begin with. If I'm going to have a case built against me for what even

you

say is irrelevant chatter, then I'm going to call people on it before I go down in flames.

Unvote
Vote: farside22

Post 121, shortly after farside expressed her suspicion of you.

FoS: icemanE

Your most recent post. Your first point I responded to already in this post. Your second point, about your discussion getting overshadowed by my "accusatory chatter" is straight up OMGUS. I made a lengthy post describing my stand on the game, and pointed out your inconsistencies. You attempt to dismiss it as irrelevant.

If I were trying to dismiss your arguments as irrelevant I wouldn't even dignify them with responses.

[dcorbe]

Keep after it though, because maybe if you repeat it over and over again you can get the town to lynch me based on that fact alone and you won't need to come up with any new case building material on me whatsoever.

Buddy, I'm not trying to convince anybody to lynch you. You asked me to tell you why I thought you were suspicious, and I did. If you didn't want it you shouldn't have asked for it.

Really? You think so?

You're probably going to dismiss this as an OMGUSy reaction, but you said it once and I felt the need to respond, so I did.

You said it twice, so I responded again to make sure that my point is getting across to the rest of the town along side yours.

If you keep bringing it up it does look like you may be planting the seeds of a case against me based on this fact.

[dcorbe]

Now should we look at dcorbe for his general defensiveness? Probably not. But he is still on the farside wagon, which doesn't seem all that well thought out to me. Sure, she's said a couple questionable things, but it looked like people were trying to quicklynch her. I am especially wary of those who jumped on and then jumped off in an incredibly short amount of time: icemanE and Korts.

As far as Mr. Blonde, Grimmy and dcorbe, I am curious why you guys are still voting for farside. I didn't see must justification when you placed your votes.[/quote]

Rishi,

If you'd like a recap of why I still feel I am justified in my vote, please see post #s: 158, 150 (in response to 149), 145

[dcorbe]

My quote tags keep getting screwed up.

@Rishi: If you'd like a recap of why I still feel I am justified in my vote, please see post #s: 158, 150 (in response to 149), 145

[dcorbe]

My quote tags keep getting screwed up.

@Rishi: If you'd like a recap of why I still feel I am justified in my vote, please see post #s: 158, 150 (in response to 149), 145

Yeah. It's some justification, which is better than none. And Grimmy said something as well.

Still want something from Mr. Blonde, though.

Curious... what did grimmy say since post 164.

[dcorbe]

While I didn't see dcorbe's defensive streak last time, I'm sure as hell noticing it now. Iceman has a long detailed post, most of which is defending dcorbe and attacking the members of his wagon, but also leaves some suspicion on him due to his erratic voting. dcorbe responds with what some people may consider "fightin' woids":

@icemanE: Re your post (154) You mind explaining why you think I'm scummy instead of trying to subliminally plant the idea into everyone's head?

...then OMGUS attacks him. After Iceman's reply that he's merely dismissing his points, dcorbe again takes on this uppity, snotty attitude:

If I were trying to dismiss your arguments as irrelevant I wouldn't even dignify them with responses.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if he attacks me for this.

__________

@Rishi: Your defense is well put and rightfully considered. I'm still suspicious, but not enough to still warrant a vote.

Unvote

This comment was designed to goad me and I'm not going to take the bait because I feel as if I've already sufficiently addressed all of the comments you have just made regarding my play style, my justification for voting the way I have so far and the couple of contradictory posts I have made so far.

[dcorbe]

You're probably going to dismiss this as an OMGUSy reaction

I don't dismiss posts. I consider them. You should think about doing the same. OMGUS is a scum tell, and thusly, while the tally of your OMGUS posts rises, I don't dismiss them - rather, I watch them accumulate, and along with them, your level of scumminess rises.

You're correct, rofl, that FoS doesn't get us anywhere. As such:

vote: dcorbe

All I'm really trying to do is respond to you. If I weren't responding I would have earned your vote anyways. You said yourself the OMGUSy reactions were more indicative of my play style than my alignment.

Is there anything other than what we've discussed and what I've attempted to address other than what you feel are OMGUSy reactions that you feel the need to put your vote on me?

[dcorbe]

Rishi: Well, let's give you at least a little motivation to post something meaningful.

I do not need extra motivation to post. Just time...

dcorbe: I meant to ask you, Blonde, whether this comment was aimed at me or dcorbe. Either way I don't really follow how its a scumtell and I assume you're joking, as you did when I asked Grimmy to get one.

Was just joking. (I meant to joke about "not having avatar => scumtell")

Rishi: Still want something from Mr. Blonde, though.

Farside's vote on dcorbe (68) seems very opportunistic and there's I missed if there's some reason to vote dcorbe (dcorbe is explaining this well in post 155 quite well I think). This opportunistic vote is the main reason I'm voting Farside.

---

Farside lists townies:

On to those I find townie:
Rishi
Poker
Rofl
Iceman
And no I'm not explaining my list. I am not giving scum an advantage

Giving absolutely no reasons <= this is not "scum advantage" if we know: it could be town advantage. Now it just creates confusion.

Bit scummy I think.

---

I'm also missing why Farside is voting dcorbe.

dcorbe also reasons his vote by saying "just feels" (gut tell without any reasons is bit suspicious).

---

As for others:

I find IcemanE saying bit odd words:

These are all decent scum tells, but I'm not sure she needs to be lynched IMMEDIATELY as you state in your most recent post. Is she the best candidate for a lynch so far today? I would say so, at this stage, but I'd like to do a little more talking before we take that step, call me reluctant or what you will but I'm in no rush to kill.

So, farside is the best candidate for lynch - yet IcemanE votes dcorbe?

Blonde: In the post you were referring to where you said "just feels" I was actually quoting something Farside said but the tags came out screwed up.

[dcorbe]

Sorry for my inactivity. I have just completed my read-through and here are my thoughts.

There are a few people that I really don't like the play of.

dcorbe: He attacks anyone that mentions him in there posts and does it in a very hostile way usually. His wagon was crap at the start but he seemed to get a little to grumpy for what a silly wagon it was.

Farside: her "opportunistic" vote on dcorde for his avatar, then after the wagon died her tunnel visioned attack on him while everyone was focusing on her. Her recent views on her probable lynch though suggest to me a more pro-town view. Could just be trying to de-rail her lynch however.

Korts: He has a general OMGUS play-style as well but what bothers me is how he instantly jumps off the farside wagon when she claimed vanilla. I know its been stated but that's usually what a scum would say in that situation. I mean seriously, what would you expect her to claim? If farside is scum than my suspicions of him are a little worse and this looks like a bus but then he jumped off when the train started to die.

Tekkactus: His most recent posts hasseling farside about why she won't divulge information about pro-town players scream fishing to me. Could just be a newbie post but generally in mafia its obvious why no one states why they think others are pro-town. The only people that serves is Scum.

Summary:

I am still unsure of where I should hold my vote. I will

Unvote

however as my votw on grimmy was a random vote from the first few pages. I feel that farside could be a good lynch choice. But as I would like to try to find the other 3 scum before we end day 1 I will place my vote on:

Vote: dcorbe

I await the PBPAs on dcorbe and farside to help me analyze my 3 top suspects.

First, what's a PBPA?

Secondly, I'm really only attacking those who continue to take decidedly out-of-game comments and pass them off as case building material. It's nonsense really.

I'm sure as the game progresses you'll see that I can be a little more level-headed than I'm currently being given credit for.

[dcorbe]

Also, I expect to hear from Grimmy either before or after this lynch - I still don't see why you're on this wagon. Either way, let the hammer fall and let's ride this out tomorrow - if farside is town maybe everyone will settle down a bit and stop following rofl's charge horn, so I guess her lynch is worth it in that regard, too.

Hopefully before someone drops the hammer. And we should also at very least wait until Surye answers his prod or gets replaced before we make the decision to lynch. He might have some fresh insight for us.

I'm still leery about a lynch this early on D1.

[dcorbe]

Hopefully before someone drops the hammer. And we should also at very least wait until Surye answers his prod or gets replaced before we make the decision to lynch. He might have some fresh insight for us.

I'm still leery about a lynch this early on D1.

Again, here's the thing that weirds me out and keeps me on edge.

You say you don't think she should be lynched yet, but she's on L-1. All someone has to do is vote her and she's toast.

But you leave your vote on her.

By my count she's L-2, not L-1

[dcorbe]

Hopefully before someone drops the hammer. And we should also at very least wait until Surye answers his prod or gets replaced before we make the decision to lynch. He might have some fresh insight for us.

I'm still leery about a lynch this early on D1.

Again, here's the thing that weirds me out and keeps me on edge.

You say you don't think she should be lynched yet, but she's on L-1. All someone has to do is vote her and she's toast.

But you leave your vote on her.

By my count she's L-2, not L-1

Poker and I both voted for her on the last page.

Right, but I've been on the wagon now for a little while, so why should I jump off? Why not you or pokerface?

You're making it sound as if I'm the one who put her at L-1.

I never really said that I oppose the lynch because at this point I really don't and here's why:

1) There's enough of a case against her right now to warrant a lynch. If someone were to drop the hammer right now it would be a fairly well-placed hammer and if she flips town it's pretty much a null-tell on the person who dropped the hammer

2) She really hasn't mounted much of a defense.

The point I've been trying to drive home is this:

Under other circumstances, a little later into the game I wouldn't have as much reservation about the lynch as I do now. The only reason I have any reservations is that we've barely begun. In my humble opinion based on my own limited experiences with mafia so far, D1 lynches this early in the game rarely flip scum.

I don't mind her being at L-1 because she has so far refused to defend herself, and if she gets lynched it's only going to be her own fault. But it gives us nothing to go on for D2 practically so if anyone at all wants to step up on her behalf and do the job that she should be doing right now, I think we should listen to them.

If someone presents a fairly thought out counter argument (anyone at this point, really) then I will remove my vote.

If you really want me to I can go back through the topic and pull out my justification for voting farside, but I feel as if I've already repeated myself enough.

[dcorbe]

I never really said that I oppose the lynch because at this point I really don't

Under other circumstances, a little later into the game I wouldn't have as much reservation about the lynch as I do now.

If someone presents a fairly thought out counter argument (anyone at this point, really) then I will remove my vote.

I don't want you to remove your vote - I just want you to be consistent about whether or not you want to lynch her. You essentially contradict yourself in those first two quotes - you want to lynch her but have reservations because the pace of the game is moving too quickly for you, and if you want to slow it down all you'd have to do is take your vote off. It's fence sitting.

You also say you're just sitting on the wagon, as one of the "middle guys" who won't look suspicious tomorrow if she turns out to be town:

Where did I ever say or even imply that I wouldn't look suspicious if she flips town? Keep in mind she's L-1 right now because she was pushing my wagon. If she flips town I would think that would be a reason to validate her vote, even if it's a small one.

Right, but I've been on the wagon now for a little while, so why should I jump off?

You're making it sound as if I'm the one who put her at L-1.

Often, to me, the people who join the wagon and just sit on it neutrally (like yourself and Grimmy) are more suspicious than the last few voters.

If you really want me to I can go back through the topic and pull out my justification for voting farside, but I feel as if I've already repeated myself enough.

No, I don't need that. But you've given just as many reasons why she shouldn't be lynched as you have that she should, so for me it just looks like you want SOMEBODY lynched, essentially whoever has the biggest bandwagon at the time, and farside's is an easy one to ride at this stage. It seems as if, tomorrow, you want people to look back on your posts from today and say "Dcorbe was on the wagon, but he wasn't the first or last vote, and he sounds protown when he says X and Y". It looks like bussing.

You're operating under the premiss that reservation is the same as opposition and it isn't. I would be concerned about the motives of the people on the wagon who are 100% sure without a doubt that their lynch target for D1 is correct because it is just simply impossible to tell this early in the game.

[dcorbe]

That's two posts in a row by people who are posting just to avoid getting prodded. If you guys aren't going to actually play then please ask for replacements.

[dcorbe]

dcorbe post by post.
I think dcorbe read too much into a single sentence. "Chill out", to me, doesn't equate to "you're emotional or otherwise trying to be disruptive".

When you tell someone to "chill out" it generally conveys your belief that their demeanor is disruptive to the group. I felt I needed to respond because I did not think that my behavior was disruptive in any way.

Post 5: replies to iceman's "why no avatar" with "is it a scumtell?" I guess this is a prime example of why people are calling him pissy.

I don't understand why this is still an interesting topic of conversation to anyone. I'd like to quote something you said to me in Open 69:

Tip: if I'm already covered in shit, throwing some more at me won't make it stick.

I assume the reason you're doing a PBPA on me is because you think that I am an interesting lynch target, so naturally it would be safe to assume that unless indicated otherwise by phrases such as "weak scumtell," "null tell," so on and so forth that you find these particular actions of mine to be scummy. Farside's wagon is based almost entirely on the belief by the rest of the town that these issues are null tells, so why use them as case building material?

Post 7:

We're 4 pages into day 1 and I've barely posted at this point. The only post I've made so far that should be interpreted as pissy is my STFU of Suspicion on Grimmy, but it didn't seem to bother him as much as it bothers you and I even tried to excuse myself a few posts later (which you're either ignoring or haven't read yet).

WTF? I ignored this at first, since it was nothing relevant, but how and when did dcorbe try to excuse himself a few posts later? Between the STFUoS-post and this one, not once does he mention Grimmy. Changing history ftw.

strong scumtell

Post 54, which you actually just quoted, BTW

It's funny how you interpreted my post as emotional or that I was otherwise trying to be disruptive rather than a

random event and an even more random vote.

That's me trying to excuse myself. I provided and excuse rather than any legitimate justification for FoSing grimmy and making a tasteless joke.

Post 15: calls me out not to bring up the SD topic again.

Basically what you just said here is "You called me out, so I'm suspicious of you." That's the classic definition of "OMGUS."

OMGUS: Oh My God! You Suck!. Usually used in the context of an 'OMGUS vote' - i.e. a vote for someone purely on the basis that they are voting for you.

"Usually in the context of votes" but can also mean in the context of suspicion.

Post 18:

still think the dcorbe case is a real reach. farside wagon is good.

At this point I'm inclined to agree. Plus it's time to start turning up some pressure on people.

So.

Unvote

Vote: farside22

I don't like people calling their votes pressure votes, it leaves an escape route in case of a mislynch, plus by stating that it's a pressure vote it won't have any real effect. Also, piggybacking on rofl's, well, call it a case.

weak scumtell

If I agree with someone else's point of view, must I really repeat their justifications for my vote? Pressure voting is a widely accepted tactic as long as it isn't baseless pressure voting. You typically need to have a reason to cast a vote and "pressure voting" is no different.

Post 19: for the most part, valid defense against farside. but, quote the last sentence:

A lynch this early on D1 is more likely to have a bad result rather than a good one.

This seems to be an attempt at rationalizing a farside-mislynch.

weak scumtell if farside's town

It's also a VERY weak scum tell for anyone on her wagon if she turns up town. It's a very strong scum tell if anyone on her wagon is adamantly sure that she is scum. I support a farside lynch but I also have the right to continue to hold my reservations and I've clearly stated what it would take to get me to jump off of her wagon.

[dcorbe]

At this point I think dcorbe is a better candidate for a lynch than farside.

The evidence of Farside being scum seems to hinge on two main points: her "buddying up" with rofl (Which I don't see as such to begin with; it seems more like a "Good posting" than anything) and her stance on the SD drinking conversation. Granted, there are additional knocks against her but these form the basis of her case. I'll admit she's scummy, but I think we can find a better D1 lynch. Namely, dcorbe.

dcorbe's attitude throughout the game has been notedly acidic. While it would be easy to write this off as his playstyle (some people are just jerks, after all) but a quick search of the other games he's played shows someone cordial, friendly, and overall not the dcorbe I've been playing with at all.

(dcorbe I don't really think you're a jerk IRL.)

Building a case on someone based on meta reads is weak and opportunistic. I hope you've got something better to go on.

[dcorbe]

Apparently expressing an opinion is now a scumtell. Would you mind explaining

why

I'm suspicious, rofl?

Also, I sincerely doubt that dcorbe would have called me out if my post had been directed at anyone else.

I noticed you're simply mad because of the fact that I called you out (classic OMGUS) and not what I called you out for. I assume you agree with me and I'll leave it at that.

[dcorbe]

He still responds primarily to posts addressed at him, though, and it's not OMGUS, but it's not too far from it. It would be nice to see some analysis of some people that aren't attacking you, D.

It's still pretty early in the game and I'm not picking up a lot of scum tells off of people. I agree with you 100% when you say people shouldn't be posting PBPAs so that they can look busy when they actually aren't. It's all stuff that's going to cause legitimate points to get lost later on down the road because of all the noise.

As far as my calling people out who are attacking me, I'm going to respond to people who throw baseless accusations around. You'll noticed that in Korts' mess he did raise a few legitimate points that I didn't feel required a response.

It's perfectly natural for anyone to want to defend themselves when being piled on like that. Everyone on MS does it and everyone calls out the BS when they see it. It just so happens that I have been one of the top centers of attention so far this game so I can see how it would look some like I'm only reacting to people who are piling on me but when pretty much everyone in the game (with only a couple exceptions) has at one point done so, it's hard for me not to look like I'm being over defensive.

[dcorbe]

You'll noticed that in Korts' mess he did raise a few legitimate points that I didn't feel required a response.

...not so much. I would think the legitimate points would be your first priority, as they are the ones that are, you know, legit.

Why? If I responded now it would look like WIOFMy logic. They're interesting points; however ultimately inconclusive thoughts. He's dropping hints that he has a case on me. When he can put those thoughts together into something coherent, then I'll respond.

You need to make up your mind about how you want me to act. When I'm responding to every little nitty gritty point I'm being OMGUSy. When I back off I'm hiding. Which is it?

[dcorbe]

You need to make up your mind about how you want me to act. When I'm responding to every little nitty gritty point I'm being OMGUSy. When I back off I'm hiding. Which is it?

I think, like in everything, it's more about the way something happens than the event itself that's important. Everyone in the game is responding to points against them - that is the nature of the game. My latest biggest thing with you is that you're now acting to satisfy me, apparently. YOU need to make up YOUR mind on how to act - as I've said, it's the inconsistencies that bug me.

Okay. I want to point a couple things out to you.

1) Korts himself stated that he's PBPAing me because he has suspicions but no case. I later voiced my distaste of people posting useless PBPAs. I believe mentioning that and the specific points I addressed was really enough to get my point across. I can't very well sit here and call BS on a PBPA and then refute every single point, because then I'm being just as noisy as him.

2) You have an unhealthy obsession with me for some reason. You're picking at every single word I say. You seem to be waiting for me to slip up so that you can paint me in a negative light.

If you want to get a wagon going on me THAT bad why don't you just vote me?

[dcorbe]

@dcorbe

- I agree on Korts

- I agree we have been back-and-forthing too much. However, if you find something someone does scummy, there's no reason to hold back from pointing it out. Perhaps its the fact that you and I seem to be on at the same time, or just have more free time than th others, that is to blame for this, but whatever the cause, if someone does something scummy I'm going to post about it.

- I have said I don't want you lynched today. I still don't, but collecting and filing information on day one is great for making decisions day two, so I want to get as much as I can down today to build a case tomorrow.

Tip: If you have no intention of building a case against me until D2 then the only thing you're doing by nailing me on everything is telegraphing your moves.

If I do something today that makes you change your mind about wagoning me, then by all means bring it up. Otherwise, keep notes on your games and make sure to mark down posts you think are worthy of mention later as these notes eventually become the basis of a good PBPA. A good PBPA will only make your case stronger later.

Otherwise, I'm going to sit here and respond to you when you pound on me and eventually everything is going to boil down into these little semantic arguments we keep having back and fourth. It's very distracting to the rest of the town, and useful things are going to get lost to the noise later on.

[dcorbe]

Gee, thanks for the tip - I don't know, according to our joined dates it looks like I've been playing a little longer than you have, not that either of us have been playing for long enough to justify giving "tips".

You seem very worried about important things getting "lost in the noise", I've heard that more than a few times. Do you sum up all arguments against you as noise? I've made a very similar argument to this one before - you tend to try to shrug off and dismiss arguments against you as insignificant, when they really aren't. I've explained why I think Korts is a good day one lynch. If for some perverse reason you WANT me to try to get you killed today, I guess I can try, but I'd rather wait and make a more sure bet to get off on the right foot.

Just because you signed up a few days before me doesn't mean my advice isn't good advice. But whatever, dude.

It's is a most valid point that we're drowning stuff out. You'll see...

I'm all for PRODUCTIVE conversation, but this is getting us nowhere fast.

FoS: icemanE

Go ahead and keep pressing issues against someone you've stated that you have no intention of wagoning today. It really makes you look super pro town.

[dcorbe]

actually, on second thought..

I can't picture anyone hammering farside any time soon, so...

Unvote

Vote: icemanE

[dcorbe]

There's nothing anti-town about exposing scumminess.

This:

It's is a most valid point that we're drowning stuff out. You'll see...

Is bogus. You'll see... is totally bogus. Stall tactics, implying delayed release of important information that you feel you need to conceal, is bogus.

When did I ever imply that I was holding on to information? WTF are you talking about!?

FoS: icemanEGo ahead and keep pressing issues against someone you've stated that you have no intention of wagoning today. It really makes you look super pro town.

I'm not trying to LOOK pro-town, I'm BEING pro-town. There's an important difference - that is, unlike Korts, whose PBPA's are relatively shallow attempts at DEMONSTRATING protownness, and youself, dcorbe, who feels entitled to be a dick because you're under pressure, I am actively and consistently searching for and exposing scumtells as they appear. I'm not going to write a list so I can make a big, important LOOKING post somewhere down the line - if I see someone doing something scummy I'm going to say HEY, THAT'S SCUMMY. If I feel like I NEED too I can come back and pull all those posts into one big one later on - there's no noise, all analysis is of value, as it tells something about both the analyzer and the analyzee. If you keep dropping tells I'll keep picking them up - do you think your strategy is better? Namely, to both look AND act anti-town?

Well if you say you're being pro town it must be true, after all you are the infallible icemanE, afterall...

There are so many things wrong with this statement that it's not funny. I'll try to correct your misguided attempts here but you'll probably just rebut everything I say anyways.

1) I'm not under any pressure right now. My wagon fell apart a long time ago. The only thing that's happening right now is one idiot (namely you) keeps trying to throw shit at me just to see what sticks.

2) I was trying to be cordial as you requested, and now I'm being called a dick simply because I'm trying to turn the tables on you. Look at yourself in the mirror next time you accuse someone of emotional posting.

3) I keep dropping tells? How come you keep saying you're so satisfied with my answers then?

4) What you're doing right now is classic scum strawmanning.

[dcorbe]

First off, don't even post a response if you don't want a response to your response. You know you'll get one.

So now we're engaged in a pissing contest to see who gets the last word? That's very mature..

Thanks for trying to correct my misguided attempts, though they're neither misguided nor attempts (what, might I ask, am I attempting that I'm not succeeding at? Getting you lynched? That's not my priority).

Doing any actual scum hunting doesn't seem to be a priority for you either. You'd rather just sit around, argue with me over stupid shit until any point either of us have made is LONG gone and bitch about my play style. Well I'm tired of walking on egg shells around you.

1 - Pressure and wagons are two different things. Wagons are better pressure, of course. But I feel it would be fairly easy to reform a wagon on you, if for some reason that's what you want. However, that wagon would be filled with people I find scummy, like Korts and Tek, so I don't see much of a point at this stage in the game.

2 - I don't think I've been a dick. Several players have noted that you have.

You just called me a dick 3 posts ago for no reason after I've been giving you nice cordial responses. Well no more. If you have a personal problem with me then take it up with the mod.

4 - It's actually classic Here's who I think is scum and why, but hey, you read the textbook, so you must be right, since you have an official term for something you've probably actually seen in action once or twice in your extensive two month mafia career. Please, I'm not trying to act like a high and mighty know-it-all, you should think about being a tad more humble. That's clearly your playstyle, but act your age.

So now you're jumping on me because I read games and pick up on social cues? I have a definition for what you're doing, so what? I noticed you didn't try to correct me, so you must not think my definition of the term is inaccurate. You're merely attacking me for using it. What's another term I'm familiar with used to describe this situation? *thinks* OH! that's right: OMGUS

[dcorbe]

I saw Qman request a replacement for Celebloki. He's not lurking. He's disappeared.

Which is exactly why he should be replaced. You typically lynch the lurkers and replace those who pull the disappearing acts.

[dcorbe]

Ok still havnt had an answer from blond or surye even though both have posted.

Now on the lurker case I personally have had a good record with lurkers as everyone of them ive lynched so far has been scum. But i think we should worry about that in the later days. Mrblond I cant really judge since ive never played but surye I know is a very common poster in big lots and for him to say he doesnt have enough time certainly seems odd.

Now this is what i was going to talk about yesterday

NEWS FLASH!

tek is so scum with farside

DAMN, YOU CAUGHT US.

Now what is the point in saying that. There are only 3 reasons that I can imagine for doing this

1- hes town using really unecessary sarcasm
2- he is scum making farside look sus so his partner stays alive
3- he is scum thinking he has lost.

Now I doubt reason 1 and really doubt reason 3 leaving him as scum. I would be really intrested to see tek explain this post.

Ok will be back soon to talk about whats happened in recent times, feel free to ask me any questions you like.

I don't necessarily agree with your reasoning here, but with all the new replacements (Llama, You) and the miraculous return of Mr. Blonde from an extended hiatus, I feel like we're going to lose focus.

Not to mention the fact that I'm not particularly fond of Tekkactus' behavior. He hasn't posted for a while, and when he does post it's to make lame attempts to build cases against people.

IE

gah. sorry guys, I have to get myself replaced, I just can't catch up with this game.

mod, please replace me

-Sigh... looking.

This is an interesting development. I really wonder how Korts' replacement will respond to the fire that he'll enter under.

IcemanE and dcorbe have been going at this banter since the very beginning of the game. Is it conceivable they're partners?

And of course his previous post was a couple days before that, which I called him out on:

At this point I think dcorbe is a better candidate for a lynch than farside.

The evidence of Farside being scum seems to hinge on two main points: her "buddying up" with rofl (Which I don't see as such to begin with; it seems more like a "Good posting" than anything) and her stance on the SD drinking conversation. Granted, there are additional knocks against her but these form the basis of her case. I'll admit she's scummy, but I think we can find a better D1 lynch. Namely, dcorbe.

dcorbe's attitude throughout the game has been notedly acidic. While it would be easy to write this off as his playstyle (some people are just jerks, after all) but a quick search of the other games he's played shows someone cordial, friendly, and overall not the dcorbe I've been playing with at all.

(dcorbe I don't really think you're a jerk IRL.)

Building a case on someone based on meta reads is weak and opportunistic. I hope you've got something better to go on.

Apparently expressing an opinion is now a scumtell. Would you mind explaining

why

I'm suspicious, rofl?

Also, I sincerely doubt that dcorbe would have called me out if my post had been directed at anyone else.

I noticed you're simply mad because of the fact that I called you out (classic OMGUS) and not what I called you out for. I assume you agree with me and I'll leave it at that.

He's obviously paying attention to the thread, because he's quoting current events. He makes reference to the argument between icemanE and myself and the fact that Korts was recently replaced.

Overall he's being dodgy, evasive and he's actively lurking.

I would like to see a wagon get going so we can get some more useful information instead of going off into our own individual tangents about who we think is scum and who isn't

If what I've outlined is not a reason to at least wagon someone, I don't know what is. Hopefully if he gets wagoned a bit he'll wake up, participate a little more in this game, let us know why he's not a good target and also let us know who we should be focused on.

Unvote

Vote: Tekkactus

[dcorbe]

I was pretty busy/inactive last week: this week I have more time and shall write my thoughts.

---

Meanwhile, roflkopter has suggested that scums are:

tek is so scum with farside

farside and muffinhead/korts

mr.blonde and muffinhead/korts

Whenever I see this type of pairing coming from one player... I start to think there's something behind it.

Something scummy.

Blonde: It's a null tell on D1. I'd like to hear you opinion on my comments about Tekkaktus directly above your last post.

[dcorbe]

Well, the fact that you used "miraculous return of Mr. Blonde" (I don't see much miracleous that I was busy last week, and have more time this week - I call it life). If that wasn't a joke... then I presume you were serious, and seriously wrong - so I have no problem believing that you would be wrong on Tekkactus as well. Don't really see much more than guesswork there in that post.

It was a joke and you even acknowledged the possibility of it being a joke, so I don't see why you felt it necessary to disregard anything I had to say about Tekkaktus without giving any thought to it.

You seem very non-committal about everything going on here, as if you're playing to stay alive rather than playing to win.

[dcorbe]

@Blonde and Muffinhead:

You're confusing an eagerness to wagon with an eagerness to lynch. Wagoning people is a good tool to get information out of D1, and it's in my opinion the only way to make D1 productive. I was supportive of a farside lynch; however, in lieu of that happening (which it doesn't seem as if it is going to at this point) I'd like to get another wagon going in order to get someone to drop some real scum tells instead of all this circumstantial crap that everyone is clinging to.

I don't think there's enough evidence to support a lynch on anyone else right now but that shouldn't stop us from wagoning someone, even if the reason they're being wagoned is weak.

@Blonde: All you're doing is posting large PBPAs to look busy. PBPAs on D1 really don't mean much and I wish you would stop. Your refusal to commit to any one case makes you look suspicious. It seems like you would rather throw doubt and suspicion around rather than do any real scum hunting.

It's mighty difficult to draw conclusions on D1 of who is connected to who and for what reasons. These relationships tend to become clearer once the results of successful wagons can be examined.

FoS Mr. Blonde

[dcorbe]

I don't see how trying to get D1 wagons started is scummy at all. farside obviously thinks random speculation and tunnel vision is a much better way to produce a D1 lynch target. She's been grasping at everything she can since the beginning of the game to get me lynched.

Why does he go from one person to the other with these

lynches.

It's like he is unnecessarily trying to stir the pot

She either doesn't understand the difference between a vote with intent to pressure and a vote with intent to lynch or she's being purposfully dense.

I was supportive of a farside lynch; however, in lieu of that happening (which it doesn't seem as if it is going to at this point) I'd like to get another wagon going in order to get someone to drop some real scum tells instead of all this circumstantial crap that everyone is clinging to.

I don't see how I'm trying to lynch everyone, but just wagon a few more people instead speculating, because speculating is obviously getting us nowhere fast.

I would like to see a wagon get going so we can get some more useful information instead of going off into our own individual tangents about who we think is scum and who isn't

[dcorbe]

I like where this is going again.

Unvote

Vote: farside22

[dcorbe]

Okay now I'm being accused by blonde of switching votes, and I'm not. If you read back far enough one of my original votes was on farside, and since a farside wagon has gotten going again that's where it is.

I've said many times that I'm supportive of a farside lynch and I've also explained why.