Undertale Mafia (Endgame):

[RadiantCowbells]

Mercy is currently at 7 .[/color] Undertale Mafia Votecount 1.64: Skygazer (5): Brown Eyes, Chemist1422, Papyrus, Shining Dreamers, Pink Ball Something_Smart (3): Wiisp, Vedith, Game of Throws Hot Lightning (3): Rosterfoster, Dannflor, nomnomnom Game of Throws (2): Something_Smart, Team Rwby Rosterfoster (1): Hot Lightning Wiisp (0): Dannflor (0): Papyrus (0): Brown Eyes (0): Team RWBY (0): Pink Ball (0): Vedith (0): nomnomnom (0): Shining Dreamers (0): Reasonably Clever (0): Chemist1422 (0): NeenieKit (0): Not Voting: Reasonably Clever, NeenieKit, Skygazer With 17 alive it's 9 to lynch. The day ends (expired on 2019-04-21 00:00:00).

[Team RWBY]

Taly and Akarin are nonentities

like ouch but ok

all heads are carrying their weight and actively solving

Actually, yesterday and today I've been reevaluating my reads because I came to a similar conclusion you did in 1564 about the gamestate.

this feels Weak Town V Weak Scum, motives aren't clear as people don't look quite unique from the other. A narrative is easy to weave for scum as town finds plenty of players that are worth rope or are lynchable, but scum themselves aren't doing much, as few people, if any, are worth a hard townread early-game.

Thoughts on

Hot

?

~yang

[Reasonably Clever]

Shining Dreamers is town until proven otherwise; specifically, I think if the kills go exactly like the way I expect them to, she has pretty damn good scum equity actually

The problem with that is that there is never a realm where I kill anyone other than your slot N1.

Your slot is nightkill-worthy on your merits alone.

But then to top it off you have KRAZY in there as well--who has a penchant for reading me "right for the wrong reasons".
...And while said scumreads are right for the wrong reasons, the reasons being wrong does not diminish the annoying tendency to still be RIGHT.

...Plus, said wrong reasons I don't expect to stay wrong for long. You know the times I've talked about my play with you, Ank? Now imagine that ten, twenty times more, minimum, and you get how much I've talked with Krazy about my play. Legit don't think there's any scummer I've had a more engaged conversation with about my meta, my mindset, my playstyle, my motivations, my philosophies, etc. We talked extensively after Anime UPick, we talked extensively after Anything UPick, we talked a little after games like schadd's mini normal and xyzzy's game, we've even talked about our numerous alts.

And the dude doesn't seem to forget the stuff I say, either--at least not all of it. Like. I have memory problems; I literally can't remember all the facts about players I play with, nor what facts I shared with what people. And I've fully expected him to forget about facts I've told him...to be surprised when he remembered them EVEN WHEN I HADN'T. Like, him making a casual reference to something I had completely forgotten about, in spite of me being the one to talk to him about it in the first place.

Obviously he's human, he forgets things, and he won't remember everything so in spite of me talking to him more than any other player about my playstyle realistically speaking my estimation is that in spite of all that he does remember he only retains about 50% of what I've told him...
...But 50% of what I've told him...
...When I've told him 200-400% more than I've told any other player...
...Is still 100-200% knowledge above the average scummer level.

So frankly if you survive to see D2, either my scumteam tried to kill you and failed due to lacking a strongman, or I'm town.
(Taly and Akarin are nonentities. Sorry mates, but you don't increase the threat and don't decrease the threat. Your contribution, I appreciate, but as scum I just wouldn't find it threatening.)

I don’t know what you are but this definitely one ballsy gambit, you’re doing.

But knowing it’s Mastina, I’m not putting too much stock in it.

Taly has posted heaps, so I don’t know how you can say that.

Btw, when will you’re other head be gracing us with her prescence?

[Wiisp]

@shiningDreamer
#1570 will always be just wifom

@Nom
interesting vote, much pressure, keep up the good work /s

anyways how is everyone doing?

[Team RWBY]

Shining Dreamers:

Can you be more direct? Who is copying you versus genuinely creating a townbloc/scumhunting vs creating a narrative? 1281

Okay, so maybe I should clarify.

This game is filled to the brim with a lot of talented players who are somewhat competent at town and reasonable at understanding gamestates. Not everyone fits, but almost every slot fits due to almost every slot being a hydra and almost every hydra having a member who fits.

Most of those players are going to be town.

These players have all, more or less, come to the same conclusions. Their exact specific solves are different; their exact details differ from person to person. No two people have literally identical takes, but almost everyone has more or less the same sort of read overlap.

At this stage, it is incredibly difficult to differentiate between the people who happen to be town that came to these similar conclusions, and scum who formed the conclusions knowing it'd serve their agenda in some way to take those stances.

It's not outright impossible--but it's something I personally don't find worth the effort of trying. I'm satisfied with "most of these people are town, it's possible they

all

are town" enough to not bother sifting through the specifics at this juncture. I happen to think they're all town, I happen to know me being incompetent my belief they're all town's probably wrong, but on D1, we're not in a position I feel is worth putting that much time/effort into sorting the specifics of where I'm likely right and where I'm likely wrong; the simple fact that MOST of these people are town is good enough for me.

To put it another way: I'd rather have a cohesive town that has deepscum not found, than a divisive town that's aiming for a townbloc without scum (which has devolved to infighting), right now.

you're saying that you believe it's more likely that town correctly has the game close to locked down?

I'm actually coming to the opposite conclusion, I think scum have more of an influence over the gamestate than you think they do even if it's not necessarily in a direct manner.

-Blake

[Team RWBY]

ftr I think there's good odds of scum being on the Skygazer wagon specifically, it's a lot less likely to be the case for the other wagons

-Blake

Does this still apply after Wiisp left? 'Cause I'd be fully onboard with that read pre-leave. Post-leave takes a lil' bit of convincing tho.

it's pretty simple, actually.

if your conjecture that town is collectively reaching a consensus is true... then what is the most obvious thing for scum to do?

-Blake

[Pink Ball]

Hi, I'm busy and will be like that probably until tomorrow. Bye.

[Team RWBY]

Shining Dreamers is town until proven otherwise; specifically, I think if the kills go exactly like the way I expect them to, she has pretty damn good scum equity actually

The problem with that is that there is never a realm where I kill anyone other than your slot N1.

Your slot is nightkill-worthy on your merits alone.

But then to top it off you have KRAZY in there as well--who has a penchant for reading me "right for the wrong reasons".
...And while said scumreads are right for the wrong reasons, the reasons being wrong does not diminish the annoying tendency to still be RIGHT.

...Plus, said wrong reasons I don't expect to stay wrong for long. You know the times I've talked about my play with you, Ank? Now imagine that ten, twenty times more, minimum, and you get how much I've talked with Krazy about my play. Legit don't think there's any scummer I've had a more engaged conversation with about my meta, my mindset, my playstyle, my motivations, my philosophies, etc. We talked extensively after Anime UPick, we talked extensively after Anything UPick, we talked a little after games like schadd's mini normal and xyzzy's game, we've even talked about our numerous alts.

And the dude doesn't seem to forget the stuff I say, either--at least not all of it. Like. I have memory problems; I literally can't remember all the facts about players I play with, nor what facts I shared with what people. And I've fully expected him to forget about facts I've told him...to be surprised when he remembered them EVEN WHEN I HADN'T. Like, him making a casual reference to something I had completely forgotten about, in spite of me being the one to talk to him about it in the first place.

Obviously he's human, he forgets things, and he won't remember everything so in spite of me talking to him more than any other player about my playstyle realistically speaking my estimation is that in spite of all that he does remember he only retains about 50% of what I've told him...
...But 50% of what I've told him...
...When I've told him 200-400% more than I've told any other player...
...Is still 100-200% knowledge above the average scummer level.

So frankly if you survive to see D2, either my scumteam tried to kill you and failed due to lacking a strongman, or I'm town.
(Taly and Akarin are nonentities. Sorry mates, but you don't increase the threat and don't decrease the threat. Your contribution, I appreciate, but as scum I just wouldn't find it threatening.)

at this point, this might be true now that I've played one of my cards.

however, the way I'm reading this game, this slot is fundamentally outside of the nightkill list that scum would be looking into for tonight. If this slot DOES die night one, that is pretty indicative of either you being scum (in which case town NEEDS to nail you down to a specific reason why I'm wrong on this) or that I'm reading the game incorrectly.

And the problem with that? there are absolutely reasons to keep this slot alive that do not exist for a few other slots I can point to immediately, and I'm fully expecting that in most games with this playerlist, the kills would be more likely to go that direction than to outright snipe this slot immediately.

I can't tell immediately if you're scum trying to play dumb on this specifically or if you really are just town that is taking that approach; I can see both being the case here (and honestly see the town option more likely atm) and idk if I'll be able to nail it down specifically until I see what the N1 kill is sadly

[Team RWBY]

I think there's very few gamestates where you don't become a top kill choice before LyLo

-Blake

In contrast, I think there's very few gamestates where we aren't policy-vigged at some point or alternatively paranoia mislynched.

#softrollclaim

well

hope that I'm right then lol

-Blake

[Wiisp]

honestly, I wish I was so good, that I didn't even need to do anything, and that I can just call my self a policy-vigg shot, or a nk every n1...
tho I agree that that type of paranoia exists since I've seen it happen to Monsterman on MU

I also think it's still too early to talk about deep wolves vs lurking wolves, there's a very nice combination of players here, making it very hard for me to find any confidence in my reads

@shining
how much of your town/scum list, is based solely on meta?

[Wiisp]

@rwby
heres more wifom, if I was scum, I would shoot you n1

[Chemist1422]

I decided to try to be useful and read the S_S ISO

The main problem I had with it was that I found them villagery for not caring about how they’re read then pushes on GoT for their read on them

[Team RWBY]

I'll give you a pass on that since you don't know our shared history

-Blake

[Wiisp]

I decided to try to be useful and read the S_S ISO

The main problem I had with it was that I found them villagery for not caring about how they’re read then pushes on GoT for their read on them

"They don't care about how they are read"

are you we reading the same ISO? there's a difference between him actually not caring, and him telling us he doesn't care, and he clearly does care about our read on him, and conveniently he's back to the shadows once we leave him alone.

I don't think there was any real merit or reason for that vote on GoT, which is why I stated the possibility of W/W between them

inb4 a wild SS appears because I talked about him

[Chemist1422]

I decided to try to be useful and read the S_S ISO

The main problem I had with it was that I found them villagery for not caring about how they’re read then pushes on GoT for their read on them

"They don't care about how they are read"

are you we reading the same ISO? there's a difference between him actually not caring, and him telling us he doesn't care, and he clearly does care about our read on him, and conveniently he's back to the shadows once we leave him alone.

I don't think there was any real merit or reason for that vote on GoT, which is why I stated the possibility of W/W between them

inb4 a wild SS appears because I talked about him

That’s pretty much what I meant, he’s like “sure you can vote me whatever” then when he gets scumcased he does an OMGUS

[Wiisp]

I decided to try to be useful and read the S_S ISO

The main problem I had with it was that I found them villagery for not caring about how they’re read then pushes on GoT for their read on them

"They don't care about how they are read"

are you we reading the same ISO? there's a difference between him actually not caring, and him telling us he doesn't care, and he clearly does care about our read on him, and conveniently he's back to the shadows once we leave him alone.

I don't think there was any real merit or reason for that vote on GoT, which is why I stated the possibility of W/W between them

inb4 a wild SS appears because I talked about him

That’s pretty much what I meant, he’s like “sure you can vote me whatever” then when he gets scumcased he does an OMGUS

ohh you agree with me? lit lol
Semantics pointed me in the other direction, sorry

[Something_Smart]

inb4 a wild SS appears because I talked about him

*Pokemon battle music starts*

[Chemist1422]

Ye sorry, but I do think the stuff leading up to the GoT vote is at least a little bit villagery in a vacuum

[Chemist1422]

inb4 a wild SS appears because I talked about him

*Pokemon battle music starts*

dang it you ruined my “but nobody came” joke

[Team RWBY]

S_S is probably my favorite player in the game atm

-Blake

[Reasonably Clever]

Hi all.

I've been busy with work and life and injuries and toothaches, and I've just been sorta active lurking as a result.

Can someone talk to me about something/someone that is *not* SS/HL/Sky? I feel like(with the exception of HL) we're sort of beating dead horses. Either people find the arguments compelling, or they do not, let's go find the other scum that exist as well/get people on the record about as many things as possible.

-Cerb

[Something_Smart]

Hey Chemist is there anything you wanted to talk to me about?

I want to interact with people but there's nothing recently posted that catches my attention.

Pedit hi Cerb we can chat too if you want

[Team RWBY]

hey cerb

what would you think if I told you that I think there's good odds of scum having a mastermind this game

-Blake

[Something_Smart]

I resent being called a dead horse and yet find the metaphor strangely apt.

[Wiisp]

Hi all.

I've been busy with work and life and injuries and toothaches, and I've just been sorta active lurking as a result.

Can someone talk to me about something/someone that is *not* SS/HL/Sky? I feel like(with the exception of HL) we're sort of beating dead horses. Either people find the arguments compelling, or they do not, let's go find the other scum that exists as well/get people on the record about as many things as possible.

-Cerb

no tbh I don't feel like we are beating dead horses
everyone wanted me to stop flooding the thread, so I'm just gonna continue to respond to posts that I want to

Everyone is just here like, "god I'm so fucking busy guys, I'm so sorry", that's scummy self-awareness in most cases, but the number of people in the group that already made posts like that is really large
actually, maybe I'll try sorting those people at one point. I'm ready for the that's a level-0 read argument, but honestly I could care less, town don't care about projecting town, I mean they should obviously try, but wolves are the ones actively trying to look town over fake wolf-hunting.

obligatory reminder, that Chemist is a lock town