micro 858: silver 3 (ended game)

[GeminiTwin12]

VOTE: Draco Lucky

[GeminiTwin12]

Hi Gemini how are you?

Thoughts on the Draco/JM spat?

Hello, Finally caught up on things, been busier than I expected.

On the surface it screams bs overall. Draco Lucky saying that Vedith is town for keeping promises really isn't a good enough reason. I can see why JM would think that's sketchy, odd that they think they're so sure because of it without at least some bg playing experience/meta with them but the issue I have is..JM said that Draco Lucky couldn't be trusted all the while voting for Rooster Fooster at the time..... (page 2) then What even is 75? The change of thought/flip/back tracking comes across as sketchy. Null on Jungle Medicine, tentative town-ish lean on Draco Lucky.

[GeminiTwin12]

I'm being critical of your earlier play, This last page or two feels better than before but I'm still not confident enough to place you either way yet.

[GeminiTwin12]

i'm really, really sorry gemini.

Don't say thing you don't mean. Can't say that I'm surprised this is happening, especially from you. Why are you voting me exactly?

[GeminiTwin12]

If you're town, why wouldn't you be surprised that I'm voting you?

-Merry

Are we really going to do *this* right now? I came in really late to the game, made one post that wasn't cohesive and detailed enough (basically just stated) so It's easy for you and now JM to just jump on the wagon and vote me.

[GeminiTwin12]

If you're town, why wouldn't you be surprised that I'm voting you?

-Merry

Are we really going to do *this* right now? I came in really late to the game, made one post that wasn't cohesive and detailed enough (basically just stated) so It's easy for you and now JM to just jump on the wagon and vote me.

Ok. Do you want us to unvote and give you more time to do stuff?

Yeah, you should because I'm actually town and it would be fucked up and unfair overall to go out like this considering.

[GeminiTwin12]

rooster just goes Mia after that whole "I'm an idiot" thing but nothing much in their iso so far.

Also, something is just not feeling right about JM, they're posts are starting to read better but I don't know of it's genuine town. Could be them trying to "recover" from earlier.

[GeminiTwin12]

rooster just goes Mia after that whole "I'm an idiot" thing but nothing much in their iso so far.

Perhaps because I'm not in the same timezone as you? Shock horror!

Wasn't a dig at you personally, I'm saying it's not much from you for me to really agree for sure that you could be scum.

[GeminiTwin12]

hey gemini what's your read on icon?

I reread a few things this morning, I feel like they're leaning town right now (Icon), I

now

see the issue with the Rooster/draco thing earlier and how that in particular is scummy, despite their lack of actual anything in their iso (Rooster) I don't see anything scum motivated from them (icon) so far but that that depends on how Rooster would potentially flip, if town then I'd say that Icon is opportunistic scum based on 210.

what do you think about Rooster and Icon's slots?

[GeminiTwin12]

VOTE: iconeum

Guess that answers my question somewhat.

[GeminiTwin12]

Starwing, could you expand on why you think that rooster and brass could be town? Is anything pinging you as scummy/sketchy?

[GeminiTwin12]

More ai content but that requires more talking so it's an interconnected issue atm.

I'm waiting to hear more of what star. Has to say.

And why exactly are you voting icon, Jungle? I'm Sorry if I missed it if you already explained it.

[GeminiTwin12]

@Jungle, how do you feel about Starwing's slot at the moment?

[GeminiTwin12]

Ohh, you've played with her before? @Jungle

Icon's currently in the middle for me. Why are they your top pick? (Icon) Is it because of their earlier thinking that Rooster is scum?

[GeminiTwin12]

Yeah, I read it the wrong way - I get what you're saying now, currently Starwings is in that weird placement of between middle/nai.

Also, can you answer this, why'd you vote Icon earlier? You asked me what I thought of their slot and I'm struggling placing them out of being in the middle.

[GeminiTwin12]

Also, can you answer this, why'd you vote Icon earlier? You asked me what I thought of their slot and I'm struggling placing them out of being in the middle.

@Jungle are you

ever

going to answer this?

[GeminiTwin12]

Gemini, Vedith, Draco townreads

How're you townreading vedith? Still have then at null.

[GeminiTwin12]

It's not necessarily mean, just can't get a reading on you yet. If it makes you feel any better, Rooster is in the pool with you.

Jungle and Icon are in the middle

And Starwing is in between Null/Middle. Need to see more from them.

[GeminiTwin12]

Humor is needed indeed, finding balance is hard.

[GeminiTwin12]

I was looking for a more specific answer/reasoning, this is mafia not a scavenger hunt but whatever.

[GeminiTwin12]

Jungle, which scum games of icons did you read specifically and what prompted you to recently decide to end your proposed scavenger hunt for reasonings on your basis for voting them earlier?

[GeminiTwin12]

Agreed, that's why if you're going to use meta as a basis for your reasoning please link to specific games so I don't have to blindly sift through games hoping to see what you're talking about.

And Jungle, Can you answer my question please?, which specific games of Icon's did you look at? .

[GeminiTwin12]

Agreed, that's why if you're going to use meta as a basis for your reasoning please link to specific games so I don't have to blindly sift through games hoping to see what you're talking about.

And Jungle, Can you answer my question please?, which specific games of Icon's did you look at? .

no your laziness isn't an excuse to scumread me or to say i'm wrong, if you don't have the energy to look for yourself you can ignore the meta stuff & evaluate the non-meta stuff, do you disagree with that part of my analysis?

It's the case that YOU are making to US. You need to be clear if you want people to see where you are coming from. It's more than 2 pages of games there, I'm not wasting the little time that I do have to try and see what you're saying, you know you're point, or you're supposed to, you know the games you've looked at so you should be able to link them but you're saying I'm lazy? it's a simple question that requires a simple response. I'd gladly read a wallpoint of a an argument especially if it's meta based with linked references. I asked for game references to see if I can get a feel for is you're pulling this out of no where or if you're actually serious about your claim against them, for motivational purposes.

[GeminiTwin12]

hey gemini do you agree or disagree with the non-meta parts of my analysis on icon?

You’re basically saying that Icon’s vote on rooster is reactionary due to the fact Rooster voted for you, the other person he scum reads. And the reads are hollow without real follow up from either of them? And Icon maybe trying to get a feel for whether you're lynchable? It’s possible yeah depending but I’m not getting a strong response of: ‘Oh yeah, that’s definitely what’s going on”

[GeminiTwin12]

Gemini I feel like you're ignoring me

I just saw 454, if that's what you're talking about, if not what I miss?

[GeminiTwin12]

Gemini I feel like you're ignoring me

I just saw 454, if that's what you're talking about, if not what I miss?

I dunno. What's your read on me and why?

Feeling town, I'm not getting a real strong sense of manipulation from the posts so far.

[GeminiTwin12]

what the fuck am i supposed to do to prove i'm town? i'm one of the most active players in the game, i've been putting out more analysis about the game than anyone else in the game except hydras who i can't compete with because it's two fucking players in one, and i'm still scum? how the fuck do you come to this conclusion RC?

This could be legit frustration, but I could also see it as scum who feels like they're being scum read for the wrong reasons. Except I don't really think scum!JM would have cause to feel like he's being scum read for bad reasons in this case?

-U2

Yeah, I could see that, getting

some

vibes of that. Could really be an overconfident townie.

i'm not an academic or lawyer brass & i'm especially not one of those things when i play mafia so no i'm not going to cite evidence for everything i say.

and why are you still ignoring all the non-meta analysis?

For future reference, can you at least try to jot down game numbers, something. Makes it easier on everyone and it also keeps people from critically questioning your argument.

I think 506 makes JM town

I'd say potential to be, still have them in the middle of my pool.

[GeminiTwin12]

Happy Birthday Icon!

[GeminiTwin12]

Starwing is actually just scum.

Ok, can you elaborate? What's standing out the most to you?

[GeminiTwin12]

I townread Roster based on an isolated interaction when i really hadn't taken in much of the game as a whole. Perspective naturally gives new views.

What changed your perspective?

[GeminiTwin12]

Yeah...let's not do drunk posting...

[GeminiTwin12]

I'm good for a policy lynch on Draco
If they're mafia great if not they're not going to help town anyway

Merry obviously

Same applies to Vedith and Rooster if you're talking policy.

i don't see how you come to those reasonable conclusions about me while calling my push on icon 'awful,' there's some type of disconnect going on that isn't sitting well with me.

You can be town with bad reasoning meaning it doesn't directly stem from scummy intentions.

[GeminiTwin12]

Ok then.

Who is your top scumread gemini?

I don't necessarily have a top scumread, just some potential scum.

Vedith - Lack of anything from them. The lack of caring whether they'll be mislynched in 559. I'm going back and forth over the thought of "

if they're scum, shouldn't they be putting in more effort than this?"

also the way they voted Icon. out the blue with no followup reasons (No reasons for hardly anything)

Starwing - the lack of stance from their (star) postings is irking me and the fact that their wagon had some votes earlier has me questioning if they're actually town and if scum (Who voted there) trying to go for the "easy lynch".

The lack of anything more from Brass's slot, (who's now asked for a replacement.)

What about you? Who are you looking at and why?

[GeminiTwin12]

@Vedith do you have any reads/thoughts?

[GeminiTwin12]

@Vedith do you have any reads/thoughts?

Yes

Are you going to share them?

[GeminiTwin12]

Not directly.
Brass seemed off but I know he has a lot going on IRL.

What do you think about alacrity?

[GeminiTwin12]

Well that's Starwing town reading me. I guess we don't need to kill there tonight.

That looks like a scum slip. But I'm not 100% sure it is. But then what else could it be?

Oh, we could be partners, and you're sacrificing yourself to save me?

Weirder things have happened...(addressing the sarcasm and potential trolling)

[GeminiTwin12]

Most likely trolling indeed.

[GeminiTwin12]

@JM why are you voting Draco exactly?

[GeminiTwin12]

Okay I think I'm ready to vote Starwing.
Before so, give me a reason to vote Rooster?

What's bothering you

(obv. enough to consider a vote there)

about their slot specifically?

[GeminiTwin12]

Vedith, please be more forthcoming. At some point it’s going to annoy me into mislynching you.

Then you say this:

Yeah but Scum kind of wants to appear like they don’t understand it, like trying to semi-town slip. That’s more what I mean I think

Your whole style of play IMO is to provoke people into attacking you and get reactions (though this doesn’t work with people who know you better). Problem is I’ve hard-tunnelled town-you twice for exactly this and been wrong both times, so I think you’re town .

If you're "aware" that this is their playstyle (In your opinion), and you believe they're town, why would you mislynch them?

[GeminiTwin12]

It's hard to convey sarcasm through text, sometimes you need to actually state it.

[GeminiTwin12]

*eyerolls*

[GeminiTwin12]

It's cool

Ugh this day phase is frustrating, D1's are usually rough in terms of trying to gather information but damn. This one takes the cake for me so far.

[GeminiTwin12]

What has my slot in your preferred pool?

[GeminiTwin12]

and alacrity?

-U2

I'm waiting for more.
As I said, Brass had a lot going on IRL so him playing odd doesn't mean anything.

How come you're still voting that slot? How do you feel about alacrity?

[GeminiTwin12]

I'll go along with the majority this time and I'll change my vote even though I'm not feeling It

[GeminiTwin12]

Yep, this day phase is weird/off as hell.

Also draco you could have just voted rooster

And We now have to wait for two votes

[GeminiTwin12]

Also spoiler tags exist for a reason

[GeminiTwin12]

i'll cry no tears if you get lynched because you refuse to vote scum.

Who do you believe is more likely to be scum out of the two?

[GeminiTwin12]

Is that l-1 on rooster?

[GeminiTwin12]

Yeah, I believe so.

VOTE: rosterfoster

[GeminiTwin12]

Scum's got this game.

Good luck town.

[GeminiTwin12]

For the record, this is bullshit.

[GeminiTwin12]

Nope. Not giving any reads. Town is about to lose two townies, one of which could have been of some use. After this it should be obvious who it is, you all figure it out.

[GeminiTwin12]

It's an I'm annoyed as fuck by this day phase answer

[GeminiTwin12]

Look, most people here could in fact be scum. What I think really doesn't matter anymore.

[GeminiTwin12]

Currently looking at Vedith (For obvious reasons), Alacrity - to whom I see no reasons (iso) to believe they could be Town and Jungle Medicine.

[GeminiTwin12]

Star and Draco lucky (I'd be a bit annoyed if it turns out that both hydras are actually scum) I'm currently rereading things for.

So are yours, especially for the fact that I'm there from my POV.

I refused to give reasons because I was pissed off (Wasn't fair in hindsight, I'll admit) for not paying close enough attention to the fact that I didn't see what was going on until it was too late and for that fact that in that scenario, with the votes and how it transpired it didn't make sense for me to be scum and I thought I was basically dead after that.

[GeminiTwin12]

I did answer the question.

[GeminiTwin12]

Didn't say I was town on them just recently, I'm rereading their posts, I'm tying to figure that out.

[GeminiTwin12]

What's making you lean that way exactly @vedith?

[GeminiTwin12]

Reactionary votes are never a good sign.

Also Jungle, what made you change your mind on me just recently?

[GeminiTwin12]

Usually reactionary votes impov (regardless of previous "reads") usually never ends well, makes things complicated.

[GeminiTwin12]

Usually reactionary votes impov (regardless of previous "reads") usually never ends well, makes things complicated.

I had Vedith as 50/50 being scum so there's not much reason for me to withhold my vote? What did I complicate? The scum is still between Draco/Vedith. You seem to think Draco's town so Vedith's the best vote at this time.

OK so again,

I didn't say that Draco was town today,

_{(so please don't say what you think I think when it's not the case)}I didn't give a read either way, I said (again) that I'm trying to figure that out. Most people here (like I said before, end of last day phase) has the propensity to be scum. You're taking the term "complicate" personally when you shouldn't. I said that in the general sense, aka what's kinda happening now.

[GeminiTwin12]

I will say Vedith, I wish you had this much to say on previous day phases.

[GeminiTwin12]

I guess. I would have liked an answer to that from them considering.

[GeminiTwin12]

That's a good question about why MP was venged instead.

[GeminiTwin12]

Vedith I can understand obviously, explain dracolucky

[GeminiTwin12]

Fine.

Why's Star townie to you?

[GeminiTwin12]

Also Alacrity's postings, which little there are, I don't see anything scummy.

[GeminiTwin12]

@Vedith, how do you go from 879 then voting Draco lucky? I could see something that would have sparked that but you never mentioned it or anything so I'm curious.

[GeminiTwin12]

@Vedith, how do you go from 879 then voting Draco lucky? I could see something that would have sparked that but you never mentioned it or anything so I'm curious.

If scum is in me and Draco regardless, claiming here doesn't matte.

What made not sure on Jungle and sure on Draco? Where was your "trust me" and "I'm 100% sure" stemming from?

[GeminiTwin12]

Let's take this one part at a time.

how do you go from what you posted in 879 then shortly later voting Draco lucky? You're so sure in post 879 then you change your vote without reasoning. I'm questioning what make you so sure (100%, "trust me") of Jungle being scum only to vote somewhere else.

[GeminiTwin12]

Are you just going to troll/joke or are you eventually going to give me a straight answer?

[GeminiTwin12]

hmm.

[GeminiTwin12]

I'm saying "interesting"

[GeminiTwin12]

mafia having a watcher and bus driver would be tooo much but I guess we can't rule that out.

[GeminiTwin12]

edit: AND a bus driver together.

[GeminiTwin12]

So we're still back between Vedith and Draco. Logically, it seems like Vedith should be the last one but uncertainties still exist bc Draco could be maf. sided watcher,
Ankamius says that JM is likely town, that depends on what their role/result is tbh.

[GeminiTwin12]

Who else has scum potential then @draco?

[GeminiTwin12]

Well, I can say that it's not me and I'm pretty sure that it's not Starwing.

[GeminiTwin12]

Unless other factors of course.

But yeah, Vedith or you. And JM's town status depends on how exactly Ankamius can clear them.

[GeminiTwin12]

Her being a VT lines up with a few things that has transpired.

[GeminiTwin12]

Don't think you killed anyone last night.

[GeminiTwin12]

*heavy sigh*

No, that's not what I mean. I mean, as far as I know, you didn't kill anyone last night.

There's still an issue of how JM is cleared but I guess that's going to need to be revealed specifically if whoever we vote flips town.

[GeminiTwin12]

I've literally basically said you're probably clear Starwing, it's not me.

if Jungle was just protected or something by Ankamius, it's still possible JM could be scum, same goes for Ankamius too depending.

Vedith, seems to be willing to be lynched to prove that it's not them or it's just manipulation. Maybe it is Draco who could either be Mafia Watcher or Tracker who just switched the result around to fit.

[GeminiTwin12]

I'll vote Vedith this day phase since by the information we currently have, it's the logical choice but if this manages to actually flip town...I just..I don't know.

[GeminiTwin12]

@Draco Lucky, U2, for the sake of things I'm going to ask this: How exactly is that a S v S interaction with M+P and myself exactly?

Because what you showed shows more so to M+P's manipulation and empty game reads and slight pocketing, especially with the whole "You're a Gem" and "thank you Gem" after I voted Roster, like I said earlier, I didn't see what they were doing until it was too late.

[GeminiTwin12]

Gem's town, U2. That's beyond debate.

I must have missed your claim, then

why is it beyond debate?

-U2

You missed a few things yeah.

[GeminiTwin12]

More ai content but that requires more talking so it's an interconnected issue atm.

I'm waiting to hear more of what star. Has to say.

And why exactly are you voting icon, Jungle? I'm Sorry if I missed it if you already explained it.

this bit is pinging me as town

This is a skitter read - her first read on Gemini - and it's super lazy. I think it's clear from the rest of the game that skitter was putting in a lot of effort as scum here, so maybe this is indicative

-U2

Yeah, again this says more so about M+P's scum game/actions and not mine because I agree that it's a lazy read. I was genuinely asking questions and I don't see the scum motivations with what I said.

[GeminiTwin12]

Again, that says more so about THEM and not me.

[GeminiTwin12]

Are you going to case JM and Ankamius as well?

[GeminiTwin12]

Again, that says more so about THEM and not me.

Like, I hear you and I am aware of that world. I don't understand why it is a problem for me to explore both possibilities

-U2

Nothing wrong with that of course but you're missing the obvious here.

[GeminiTwin12]

Are you going to case JM and Ankamius as well?

I was going to do starwing next. I'd like to see claims from JM and Ank

-U2

What's the likely hood to you of one of them being scum and why? (talking about JM + Ank)

[GeminiTwin12]

Because we still don't know who the last scum is obviously. Why make it easier already?

Chance that JM could still be scum technically speaking, depending on how they're cleared but that'll have to be dealt with later.

[GeminiTwin12]

how Likely is likely that JM is town to you @Ankamius

[GeminiTwin12]

@starwing,

Vedith claims to be a VT
So do you star.
Draco claims watcher
Ank. Just says that JM is 90% likely to be town. I can't remember if JM said anything though.
I said you most likely didn't kill anyone last night.

It's either really Vedith or someone between Ank, JM and maybe Draco.

[GeminiTwin12]

All I'm saying is that I doubt you killed anyone last night.

Make of that what you will.

[GeminiTwin12]

I'll see what can be done, assuming I make it through the night, what's up?

[GeminiTwin12]

Starwing couldn't have killed anyone unless Mafia has a roleblocker.

[GeminiTwin12]

Vedith's willingness to be lynched today is starting to make me think that *maybe* it could be Draco but we'll see.

We can go with Vedith.

What do you think?

[GeminiTwin12]

Mafia having a Watcher with a Bus driver kinda does make sense considering, yeah.

But Logically we should have a 50/50 chance of hitting scum between Vedith & draco.

[GeminiTwin12]

Then who should be the lynch then @draco?

[GeminiTwin12]

Good question actually.

[GeminiTwin12]

Before anymore voting takes place, does anyone have anything else to add?

[GeminiTwin12]

Am I the only one that feels like something doesn't feel right here?

[GeminiTwin12]

Something feels..off here but I could be overthinking things. We'll see.

[GeminiTwin12]

Is there any way that jungle and Gemini are BOTH scum?

I got played like a fiddle if that is the case

I can only speak for myself here but no, I'm not scum. My scum game is shit.

[GeminiTwin12]

So we're back to it being vedith or Dracolucky then

[GeminiTwin12]

@Jungle, it's up to those who have PR's to use them wisely tonight, I mean, it's only a few scenarios that could be at play here.

Doubt Ank. is scum here (obvi)
Starwing is town
I'm town.

Draco claims watcher -> mafia *could* have one.
Vedith could still be scum
Jungle could still be scum

If we lynch someone out of those three, that's a 50/50 chance of getting this right.

Also, if we don't lynch draco today, someone should try to be on them or something. That would clear some things up next day phase.

[GeminiTwin12]

I'm not going to get to ank tonight

Gemini - with all the different ways that the roles in this game can interact to create false results, how sure can we be that your result can be trusted?

-U2

Because it was a kill last night and Starwing didn't do it based upon things. That's all I can go off of. You think scum has a roleblocker?, we know they had a bus driver.

[GeminiTwin12]

No.

[GeminiTwin12]

Why 50/50 Gemini?

I do not see the math.

"Draco claims watcher -> mafia *could* have one.
Vedith could still be scum
Jungle could still be scum"

"If we lynch someone out of those three",

There's two left,

"that's a 50/50 chance of getting this right."

All of this assuming that there aren't any other hiccups preventing Star's alignment since Draco just seemed to cast doubt and bring it up earlier.

[GeminiTwin12]

Rolling my eyes at that^^ I can only tell you what I've done. Can't fault me for outside factors that none of us (except scum) knows about.

[GeminiTwin12]

I'll say that you Draco are the only one that I won't be able to confirm/deny due to certain conflicts with my role.

I targeted Starwing last night phase, there was a kill. So that leads me to believe that she's town. Unless as you essentially brought up earlier, outside influence.

I'm against scum having all the pieces here, that's why I didn't get uber specific about my role. I kinda didn't want to make myself a target here because of it but here we are. =) (passive aggressive smiley face)

[GeminiTwin12]

Actually, I still can. I misunderstood. Ignore that first sentence.

[GeminiTwin12]

I'm voting between vedith or JM today.
Someone should check Draco if they can.
Unless anyone has something better in mind.

[GeminiTwin12]

Ok

[GeminiTwin12]

I thought about that.

[GeminiTwin12]

VOTE: Jungle Medicine

[GeminiTwin12]

UNVOTE:

I need to think about this some more.

[GeminiTwin12]

Draco should do the Brittany Spears actually. That would clear a lot of this up.

[GeminiTwin12]

or Ank. if they're here now. Either way, it would help.

[GeminiTwin12]

Ok, Cementing my vote on VOTE: Jungle Medicine

[GeminiTwin12]

Gem, please vote for Draco or Vedith today.

I didn't want to risk potentially miss lynching the watcher tho.

[GeminiTwin12]

UNVOTE:

[GeminiTwin12]

VOTE: jungle medicine

Nevermind, was going to weigh a vedith vs jungle Lynch but We really don't have that much time to go back and forth over this anymore. We should be able to have this sorted out by next day phase. Hopefully.

[GeminiTwin12]

That is a point. It's not that simple, not technically for me. I could still be sabotaged, so to speak. Scum could purposefully NK making me think the person I chose is actually guilty.

[GeminiTwin12]

Ugh yeah that too potentially.